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I kind of laughed at the title of this thread. |
Well, when you're building an insta-city out of nothing (like Calgary) you can put freeways wherever you want, but in the case of established cities like Winnipeg or Toronto building freeways means destroying significant parts of the existing social or structural fabric. The freeway plan that existed in Winnipeg in the 1960s would have totally destroyed large parts of the city with unsightly raised roads. Developments like the Forks and other riverside projects would have been impossible. Many older neighbourhoods would have been sliced up and cut off and even worse off than they are now. So it's fortunate in many respects that the freeway plans were shelved. Even the Disraeli Freeway, a short elevated road that did get built, managed to devastate an entire inner-city neighbourhood.
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By the way I specifically wrote light rail, so don't go throwing BRT into the mix. That was your comment not mine. |
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Absolutely correct, TV. You can never build your way out of congestion, it's been proven over and over. The rate of trip making goes up, you're back into gridlock. Having an effective goods movement network is important but smart land use decisions will drive that more than simply adding capacity where trucks are competing with cars. Nobody builds freeways anymore except Calgary, Edmonton, Dallas, etc. Surprise.
Winnipeg road network isn't much different than Vancouver....Vancouver simply invested in rapid transit and coordinated land use and accomodated alot of growth that way whereas Winnipeg did nothing. Forget Calgary as a model, that's the only city I can think of that invests hundreds of millions in LRT expansion while in the same corridor enhances road capacity. BTW, those who slag BRT, try the Ottawa system. Far better transit than what you'll get in any Prairie city. |
No Rapid Transit, no Freeways, I guess everyone like stopping and going at every light. Seeing as Winnipeg still has sprawl, only small tracts of it are walkable. Gotta have some mode of transportation.... Everyone on the bus! Next Red light, here we come!
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As for the freeways, Vancouver is doing it as part of the Gateway initiative, whether these new perimeter roads constitute true grade separated freeways, I don't know. And Toronto, I find it hard to believe with their growth management strategy/Move Ontario program that there are freeways being built. Improvements to existing roads maybe, they have trouble maintaining their transit system. Bottom line, Winnipeg is fine without freeways, better traffic signal technology would help, some 'point' improvements would help and the Perimeter should be grade separated for efficiency and safety purposes. The absence of an Ottawa transitway or LRT is the crying shame. :hell: |
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As for BRT, Halifax has some (called "Link" buses, for some reason) on a couple of very limited routes. They sit stuck in traffic like everyone else. None too rapid. Our road network is so antiquated and overloaded that we would need to do some massive construction just to get us to the "inadequate" stage. |
Blaming Calgary's sprawl on freeways is just ignorant, it is a lifestyle choice that Calgarians made. Living in bigger houses with bigger yards and having 2 of the largest inner city parks in North America dramatically increases the size of the city. Calgary also has very large industrial areas along the eastern edge of the city. Having a freeway in the city makes getting across Calgary much easier. You can take your roads with all of your traffic lights, even if they are timed, you will still end up waiting.
As for BRT lines being better than the LRT, are you kidding me? you still have to deal with traffic and you will still be screwed if there is an accident. Calgary has BRT too, it services the ares of the city that do not yet have the C-train. It's a good system, but it can not compete with the LRT. Like I said before, sprawl is driven by consumers wanting to buy a house with a good size yard instead of a townhouse or an apartment, and with a high average income, that's a choice that more people here can afford to make. Talking about Calgary being the only city still building freeways is wrong, you people speak as if we are demolishing neighborhoods and building elevated freeways, when all we are really doing is building more overpasses and increasing traffic flow on existing roads. Deerfoot is our only true freeway, and will stay that way until Glenmore / Sarcee can manage to get rid of all the traffic lights, and move from being a causeway to a freeway. The only thing we are building from scratch (and that is only sections) is the ring road, and you would have to be a complete idiot to tell me that is a bad thing. Anyone who has ever tried to cross through the city on 16th Ave (especially driving an 18 wheeler) knows how frustrating a task that is, the ring road is meant to alleviate that. Lastly, saying that a freeway causes more pollution is a half truth, true it may increase the distance you travel and thus the amount of gas you burn, but it will greatly reduce the amount of time that you spend in traffic idling (which also burns gas don't you know), and I would say that is better. end rant. |
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mmmyeah, as recent as 1975 for Montréal? (highway 13). Again talking out of your ass:haha: Thankfully we'll get a new bridge and extension for the 25 by 2011. |
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Nobody said Calgary was the ONLY city building freeway type roads. Last I saw, Crowchild was being expanded and turned into a freeway, minus a couple of traffic signals north of the river. And this road takes traffic right to downtown, what other city is providing enhanced auto access into a downtown. Maybe doesn't matter much based on parking charges. Calgary's development was heavily influenced by the Dallas/Houston mentality, which is one the reasons it's a bit different from every other city in Canada in terms of sprawl and big roads. |
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