The HEB pantry idea is kind of what I was thinking about. The area does needs a "walkable" grocery store. With the Vistana having 240+ units, all of the lofts being built down Flores, and all of the existing residents near downtown, something is needed. When I was growing up we needed the Handy Andy just as much as we needed the HEB on Presa. Maybe HEB is just moving out before it moves back in; it wouldn't make too much sense to have 2 HEB's in the 'inner' loop.

Whole Foods or Trader Joe's would work

The city didn't own the land that Hemesphire was built on. Money had been put into that area enough already. Expansion of the Convention Center is fine. Tweak the little free land there is left and leave it as a parkish area.

Now take all the funds and buy up the lots and wasteland sw of downtown and start creating something useful there.

Just thought it needed to be restated.

tweak the free land? why? no one uses it as a park now. why tweak it so it is nicer for no one to use?

the city and hardberger are only moving towards a redevelopment of the park because it is such a crappy waste of prime downtown land as it is.

whetever plan they come up with will include creating a little more usable green space from the mish mash of nonsense that is currently there in addition to adding development along the periphery to give the area some life.

Hemisfair park already has some good things, like the old houses that were saved, ITC, ToA and the UNAM campus.

The area has so much potential.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2mw5pig.jpg

Absolutely, in 2024 or after.

We can't even get a second WF in the affluent areas of SA where people can actually afford to shop there - much less areas they can't.

BTW, yesterday WF announced the first layoffs in its history- all coming at its' HQ in DT Austin. Guess in these tighter times, less people can afford to shop at Whole Paycheck. I could still afford to shop there, but can't afford the gas to get over there to shop. If they would only go in at Phase 17 or whatever of the Shops at La Cantera.....

Those will have to be moved.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/planning/p...4b_era_map.pdf

the above link is a map of HemisFair as it currently stands, with buildings color-coded by the time-period from which they came...

as you will see, there isn't much "green" space to save. and like SKW said, they'll have to move a bunch of historic structures if they hope to have any large green space at all.

the convention center will eventually expand over market street (with market being straightened where the old SAWS building rests).

hopefully, UTSA ITC will be razed, making way for a larger area that could be green space and pueposeful development.

the 2004 hemisfari master plan is on the city parks website (http://www.sanantonio.gov/planning/pdf/hemisfair) and is woefully inadequete for what hardberger is trying to push through now.

Because it was redeveloped in the 1980's. Lots of money went into it.
It didn't work because.....like I said....San Antonio needs a long term plan for the Hemisfer area before they spend another dime on it. They keep refixing it....and it is broken...because they will not plan it out.

If the whole concern is the old houses, most of them are off to the side and for those that are in the way of building; if they can move the Fairmont Hotel to make room for the Marriott, we can move the house to.... I don't know?, the banks of the river next to the Hyatt Place or on Aubrey street next to the old houses already there. But why not just crowd them across the street from the Fairmont to create a faux village and add to La Villita National Historic District, convert a couple of those houses to little stores..... it might make it look like something is going on there and help with traffic to the "Park." Something needs to be done, it looks like a large alley way and a bunch of loading docks now.
In my opinion (and its just that,) a couple of high rises where ITC is, a "mixed-use" (a la Quarry Village, which btw, is shaping up nicely,) where the federal buildings are, and reshape the immediate area around the Tower. With so many residents living there, and the addition and completion of Victoria Commons, I bet the "Park" would be used. it might even possibly make dual use of the walkway under I-37 to the Alamodome/Sunset Station and help develpment to the East.
BTW, wouldn't the land to the NE of the Alamodome/ E of Sunset Station be a great area for a Ball Park? When I imagine a park there, I see something similar to Camden Yards in Baltimore except with S.A. skyline overlooking the outfield.
http://www.baseballpilgrimages.com/a...oriolepark.jpg
image taken from: Baseballparkpilgrimages.com
I know, its only a dream a this point, but it would look great.
Hey a ball park might be wasted space but we could get the College World Series, the Astros spirng training, and call it a success. Just a thought, what is it used for now?
sorry for changing topic and location... or maybe we could put it where the ITC is now?

There's been some serious talk of moving ITC out to UTSA.

maybe they could relocate it close to the UTSADT campus?

I would prefer they stay downtown, but it's probably cheaper for them to move out.

That would actually be really cool - give non-students and visitors a reason to come to the 1604 campus for more than the occasional music performance (many/most gallery shows are done at the Blue Star complex) and home basketball/softball/vollyball games (roadrunner baseball is usually played at Wolfe stadium).

Have to tell ya tho- don't have a clue where they could put the facility on campus. The most visible part, the museum display pieces are only part of the ITC collection. There is also a large collection of pieces that arent on display and in storage. They also have some academic collections that were donated (writings, manuscripts, books, papers) and a HUGE photo depository (I want to say one of the Kleberg collections is there - I had to scour the collection about a decade ago for a specific photo my boss had seen and wanted a print of). They also have the entire photo archives of the Express-News and its' predacessor papers going back to 1865 or something. They also have classroom and meeting space so a new facility anywhere would take up a noticable chunk of land. Guess they could bust up the academic and photo collections with parts going to the public policy institute at the DT campus and the writings, journals, and books going to the 1604 library. But they'd still have to find a place to put the 'museum' part of the ITC and the 1604 campus is hurting for space in a bad way. The eastern half of campus is currently dedicated for future use of the sciences and engineering (research specifically). The SE and extreme NE parts of the campus have to be left for open space (geological features; caves and hydrological faults with the rest of that area in the 100 year flood plain. The central core is rapidly being built out which leaves the western part of campus - and that doesn't seem to jive with their plans from day 1 to have the eastern half and core of the campus be academic space and the western half be residential, athletic, and recreational in nature. But hey, plans were meant to be changed, right? Romo is a smart guy. If they want it up there, he'll find a way to get it done. A museum on the 1604 campus would be great, IMHO.

if a "long-term plan" was in place with whatever redevelopment comes from the hardberger camp, would you then be for it?

it doesn't matter how recently the last attempt failed. if your roof leaks and your first patch job doesn't work, do you ignore it until enough time has passed to justify the repair again? no, you get onto the roof with a better plan than you used the first time and you fix it right - and you spend what is necassary because its a really important piece of the house.

hemisfair is too important to let lie in its current state.

Unfortunately, most areas around fair areas go through the "should we redevelop? yeah, let's do it... nah." process over and over.

Am I the only one who thinks that the ITC is a really (really) disappointing place?

The space is terrible and the exhibits are like something put together at 8th grade science fair. I have been a few times and have never come away with anything other than an overwhelming desire to take a wrecking ball to the building myself. Even the Hemisfair exhibit recently was interesting in content but so poor in presentation that I gave up on it.

If the space gets moved, that may be a chance for them to really improve upon the museum and draw folks out to give them a new first impression.

I think we are all off base to want the ITC moved onto a UTSA campus. There isn't a more sure way to guarantee no one will ever see it again. Even people who attend UTSA hate trying to get there and park.

Why not get the city and UTSA to find a reusable structure (a couple of stories tall) in River North near the SAMA...? The thing that increases museum attendance as much as anything is it's proximity to other museums. Plus, it would add to the "cultural" fabric of River North and would help to put pressure on the ITC to improve their offerings so as not to be embarrassed to be in the same neighborhood as SAMA and (to a lesser degree) the McNay. It would also be accessible by the streetcar from downtown, which is arguably a better position for it than it currently has (across a blazing parking lot from the TOA and near absolutely nothing else at all...).

Who is with me? ITC to be reborn in River North.

Great! Now if we could only get Hardberger on the phone....

Maybe Ripley's will rent out a couple of buildings.:)

Its in his inbox. :yes:

Movies by Moonlight: A really cool idea

When it comes to breathing life into downtown, the city has made some choice moves this year. Luminaria was bold and it worked. The bullriding in front of the Alamo was a rousing success.

Tonight, the city changes pace by partnering with Slab Cinema for Movies by Moonlight, a weekly film series at HemisFair Park.

The series kicks off with "Grease." (You're the one that I want. Ooo! Ooo! Ooooo!)

The homerun events are nice and necessary. But these smaller, grounded events are equally as necessary. They're pure community. That it's in HemisFair Park serves the downtown community. But it's also a centrally located option so families from across the city can visit downtown on a Thursday night. On the flip side, it'll breathe a little life into HemisFair Park.

Slab Cinema duo Angela and Rick Martinez started screening films four years ago on the concrete slab at La Tuna, the ice house and grill on Probandt. Before that, they screened outside their now-defunct video shop Planet of the Tapes on South St. Mary's Street. Angela said over the years, they must have screened 100 movies in the Southtown area. They had been looking for a permanent location — long story — when the city called and proposed they give HemisFair Park a try.

"They actually approached us," Angela Martinez said.

Tonight the experiment begins. City workers will set up an 18-by-27-foot screen in the lawn area between the HemisFair arch and the Magik Children's Theater.

There'll always be a performance of some kind beforehand that matches the theme of the movie. For "Grease," Raymond Zapata's Dance Group will do their '50s thing around 7:30 p.m. The movie starts at 8.

People are encouraged to bring lawn chairs and/or blankets. Concessions will also be made available.

They're already planning to run horror flicks throughout October starting with "Nosterafu."

Movies by Moonlight
7:30 p.m. Thursdays
HemisFair Park
Free parking in the parking lot across from the federal building

September lineup
4: Grease
11: Titanic
18: Sixteen Candles
25: Casablanca

On the Web
Download the flyer
Visit slamcinema.com

— Benjamin Olivo

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/downtown/


Sure its nothing flashy, but it proves folks aren't totally ignoring the park ;)

I would suggest this to anyone. Austin has "Movies in the Park" at Republic Square in downtown. It's very fun. We haven't gone in a while though, this year they've played some stinkers. But the first year we went they played Back to the Future. Very fun event to go to.

From today's EN.

Reviving HemisFair Park focus of development summit

Forty years ago, a historic neighborhood was razed and residents left the property that became HemisFair Park.

Now the city would like to bring people back — if it can only figure out how to do so.

Plans to re-create HemisFair — the downtown property that hosted the 1968 World's Fair and has been used less successfully ever since — have moved slowly since the city approved a master plan in 2004.

“Quite frankly, since 2004 there have been incremental changes,” said Colleen Swain, the city's assistant director of downtown operations.

Now, a plan developed as a volunteer project by Overland Partners Architects has jump-started the conversation again about how to bring some life back into the park.

Participants in a roundtable discussion Monday at the city's 2008 Community Development Summit at the Convention Center talked about the park's history and threw some ideas out there — including opening some of HemisFair's streets to cars, adding parking to make it more accessible, extending the River Walk into the park and privately developing some properties on the perimeter.

“HemisFair needs to be done at the highest level,” said Madison Smith, partner at Overland. “This is no place for mediocre development.”

Hosting the World's Fair at HemisFair has long been touted as a turning point in San Antonio's history, positioning the city as a tourist and convention mecca. But those involved in the event wring their hands over the park's chronic underuse.

“It seemed to be that San Antonio kind of coasted for a long time on that energy,” said Sherry Kafka Wagner, founding executive director of the Women's Pavilion at HemisFair Plaza.

Boone Powell, partner at Ford Powell & Carson who worked on the original plans for the park, said the city has a long history of ignoring the HemisFair property.

“The fair really did invite the city, but the city didn't come,” Powell said. “That's the problem we have today. That's the biggest single thing that went wrong.”

Now that's changing, Powell and others said a “grand vision” could revive the park.

Smith suggested that connecting the park with the Lavaca neighborhood and creating a mixed-use boulevard along Durango Boulevard could help remedy the somewhat confusing experience that people now have with the park.

No cars on the streets!! Only parking in garages, well designed garages that blend in so they don't look like garages. *sigh* I really hope they go forward with the riverwalk extension though.

^^^ I wouldn't complain about a couple of cars if it meant the park got a rehab and that developers were invited to remake the perimeter. would rather not have them, but beggars can't be choosers.

woodlawn lake park has a small surface parking lot that has only one entry/exit point and works really well to maintain the vitality of the park, bringing in folks that live close enough for it to be convenient (for walking, jogging, basketball, soccer) but who live just a bit too far to walk. a garage may be cost-prohibitive in the grand scheme of things (at least right off the bat), but a well-hid surface lot (50 spaces) might be OK.

(did i just give a justification of a downtown surface parking lot? it is time to go home - i am losing my mind!! i guess i just really want to see that area re-imagined.)

I know I've said it many times here before (and I'm sure some are tired of it,)but I think that if something like Pentagon Row is set up there,(for those that don't know what you are looking at, the area I am talking about ends at the large parking garages, that is part of the Mall and not part of Pentagon Row. You could envision that as "Hemisfair Plaza Way," the connector from La Villita to the Tower,) it would work out rather well and would leave a triangle of cultural and historical "park."
It has retail on both streetside and interior retail with residential on top. Underground parking garages with some surface parking for convenient stop-and-run-in services. Adding shopping to the area will work because of the proximity to River center especially if the renovations go as planned.
A couple of mid to high rise residentials would serve the area well too and the Victoria Commons area would serve as a good "buffer" between high density housing and the single family homes.
Adding Durango and Alamo St. roadside retail would also encourage people (because nothing else will) to walk from the Rivercenter parking or other places downtown to this area instead of getting in their car and moving to a parking space 2 blocks over.
There is nothing to "anchor" this side of dt; I think this would add a continuation of "city" that isn't there right now.
There really isn't a "park" now, so why turn it into something it never was?

I have been saying that exact same thing since two years ago!!!! Thank you for sharing some of my same convictions about this. I even started an online petition and shared it on this site or some other SA site but we need a beautiful DT PROFESSIONAL baseball field for sure!!!!!!:) :) :)

Downtown: A towering treat
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ing_treat.html

October looks like an amazing line-up. With the cooler weather and these flicks, it looks like time to catch a movie.

Oct. 2: “E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial”

Oct. 9: “Young Frankenstein”

Oct. 16: “Ghost Busters”

Oct. 23: “The Birds”

Oct. 30: “Nosferatu,” with live accompaniment by Mombassa Code and “Attack of the 50 Foot Woman”

Sweet line-up, I'm jealous. They had a bunch of stinkers at Movies in the Park in Austin. A bunch of chick flicks or else overly macho movies.

*

very interesting, miaht...

isn't it just a formality that the new courthouse will be at the police HQ?

I was under the impression the police hq was already selected. The new police/fire hq is still a go right?

*

Found some renderings of "Durango" at Victoria commons, also saw the site plans and renderings for a 120 unit high rise similar to Vidorra.
I'm having trouble posting them now, but I'll post as soon as I can.
Bringing this up because it was approved by SAHA not to long ago and construction should begin in the next quarter.

YES!!!!!!

Let the clustering begin...

Miaht, you are about to become CEO of COGSADCAJA!! You have been on fire lately.

He is definitely our all-star recon man :yes:

http://blondecreative.com/saha/durango_index.html

Is this what you're talking about? The renderings just show buildings similar in design and scale to what's already there. No high rise.

Those are the renderings to Durango Phase.
The rendering of the highrise that I saw was in a circulating
pdf. that was for Victoria Commons.
This "would" be on the corner of Labor and Durango:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/...39cd90.jpg?v=0

If you read through the minutes on the link that KSAL posted, they already talk about
a similar "mirror" development at the Hemisfair site. It says that a continous look and feel
is wanted on both sides and that is taking into account that SAISD would move their
offices too.

Sweet!

So this would be in addition to what's on the link I posted?

yeah I'm assuming that the "durango" would be to the left of the pic, although in the minutes I read, it said that the corner to 37 and the other end would be used for landmark development.:shrug:

I count 14 stories, which seems pretty much right for that area.

Yeah, the "senior" building is 9 or so.
Gives me hope for a couple talls on the ITC site.

I hope ITC doesn't move to UTSA. No one would visit.

Maybe there can be a land swap deal and get a spot near river north, or closer to UTSA/DT.

Is this project "for sale condos" or what type of building is it.

That sure looks a lot like the "Highland Tower" that's under construction in Houston. It's 174 feet tall with 15 floors. That building is being designed by Ziegler Cooper Architects.

Here's the thread on it here at SSP.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ighlight=tower

Here's the Emporis page with the rendering plus a model of it.
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=...houston-tx-usa

Ziegler Cooper Architects' website. Other than the Highland Tower in Houston, it didn't list one that looked like the one that miaht82 posted.
http://www.zieglercooper.com/

Why not build the museum veritcal? Or like Miaht said, swap and build near SAMA.

Also, Miaht, is the highrise and four story complexes supposed to begin constriction or just the two four story complexes with the high rise coming later?