Variations of our relationship with the US across the country
 

80ish% of our population lives within 200km of the US border. Needless to say the US casts a pretty big shadow over Canada with thousands of their corporate chains scattered across our land. But this thread isn't about how the US influences Canada. Rather it's about the relationship Canadians have with the US and how that relationship varies depending on where in Canada they live.

I've lived in Ontario the majority of my life and moving to Edmonton it took me a few days for it to really sink in that I am now 700km from the US border, and about 1300km from the nearest major US city. Further, non-Alberta license plates here are almost entirely ofher Canadian provinces. There's the occasional North Dakota, Montana and (oddly) California plate here and there, but not NEARLY as common as the New York, Michigan and Pennsylvania plates you see in Ontario year-round.

In Ontario going to the US is a day trip. People go for shopping, visiting relatives and friends and just to get out of the house for a few hours. In Alberta the US is a vacation destination; a trip which is planned ahead of time and typically flown to. No quick trips across the border to get gas out here.

Soutbwestern Ontario is of particular interest to me because of its many similarities to the American midwest. A historical manufacturing-based economy that suffered due to overseas labour. Driving around Windsor and even London (although not to the same extent) it's obvious that almost every car is an American model. Compare this to the GTA where European/Japanese models seem to dominate. Cities like London and Windsor can count their blessings that they happen to be in Canada and not the US or it's very likely they would've gone in the same direction as cities like Youngstown and Flint.

In Edmonton I've actually met quite a few people who have never left the country before. The US is definitely viewed much more as a far-away place. The great irony in all this is that the prairie cities resemble the US midwest far more in terms of city layouts and urban design despite prairie residents not going to the States nearly as often as those in Ontario and BC.

I'm curious to hear about people from other parts of the country. I know there's a lotta travel between Vancouver and Seattle as well as Quebec and Vermont. What about Winnipeg and Minnesota? Southern Prairies and North Dakota/Montana?

Before I moved away from Killarney MB in my 20's, going across the line into North Dakota was a weekly occurence. Whether to go to bar, buy clothes and groceries or just to see what was going on. The proximity made it convienient.
Now that I split my time between Regina and Victoria, going to the states is a real pain in the ass as it involves a 2hr drive on a single lane highway (Regina to US Border) or a ferry ride (two sailings daily on the MV Coho). So as a result I really have to have a reason to make the trip.

We're, of course, fairly isolated from the mainland.

There are historic ties to the United States generally, and New England in particular. All of our U.S. television networks are the Boston affiliates. Just about every family has relatives who married Americans during and after WWII when they had numerous bases across the island. Economic union with the United States was a popular option for our future during the National Convention period in the 1940s.

The most common American plates are the big ones - New York, California (oddly), etc. But our American tourists are more likely to be driving VW vans than sleek sedans. Quebec is, inexplicably to me, probably the most common outside license plate. Year-round. Alberta too, but those folks are actually from here 99.9% of the time.

There's generally a great affection for Americans. New York and Florida tend to be very popular destinations for people here and you often see seat sales and the like for those two.

I heard on the news that Houston is now one of the top departure points for airline passengers arriving in St. John's, but that's more of an invisible, oil & gas relationship.

In the other direction, every other historic town on the island has an American sponsor of sorts - some American family who visited, fell in love, bought a vacation home or moved here permanently, and now invests in maintaining and restoring heritage buildings. Bonavista is the most famous example. They have more than 1,000 heritage buildings and their protection is being funded almost entirely by a wealthy American couple.

And we don't have a lot of immigrants to rural Newfoundland, but those we do get are likely to be American.

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And when American soldiers are in port it's always a popular visit. They offer tours of military vessels and have some of the sharpest uniforms of any regularly visiting country, second only to the Russians in my impression.

But we don't have that casual, hop-in-the-car-and-drive-to-X relationship with anyone. That was one of the big culture shocks for me on the mainland. "We're going to Minneapolis to shop this Saturday, want in?" "What? How?". It makes me jealous - just have to tell myself there cultural and amenity-related benefits of isolation. Halifax is the nearest city to us and that's roughly the half-way point of driving from here to Toronto. Unless you time your drive with the ferry exceptionally well, it takes the better part of two days to drive there.

People in Quebec have relationships with places like Plattsburgh, Burlington (and in the case of my region, Syracuse) that are based on cross-border shopping. There are also tourism-based relations with Vermont, New Hampshire, the Maine coast, Boston, NYC, the Jersey Shore and of course the area around Ft Lauderdale in Florida.

I will say that these relationships with Americans tend to be extremely superficial and transactional.

The family and friends thing is very, very limited and as I said exchanges with Americans tend to be cordial and friendly but also quite superficial.

Now, it should be said that the majority of people in Quebec have family in the U.S. (largely due to a migration of close to 1 million French Canadians to the US in the late 1800s and early 1900s). But the linkages between these people and us have faded greatly over time and in the vast majority of cases at this point there is little to no contact.

There may be a bit more contact in the areas of the Eastern Townships where the border is much closer but by and large the descendants of the French Canadian migrants 100 years ago are very American today and have little in common with people in Quebec. Most have married Americans of other origins or are descendants of such mixed marriages, and know no French at all. I suppose there are some families who make the effort to maintain ties but in my opinion this is a tiny minority.

If I talk to most everyone in my entourage the usual line from most everyone goes something like this: ''My grandfather's brother moved to Rhode Island in the 1920s and so I have distant cousins there, but I've never met them."

I cind Nfld (islands in general really) quite interesting because of the isolation. Only islands I've ever been to were within the great lakes. I found it quite perplexing a few months ago when I met a girl from Newcoundland a few months ago and she told me moving to Alberta was the first she had ever left the rock. Completely different worldview I'd imagine.

I'd say the same is true for the GTA. It's close enough for an easy daytrip but far enough that people don't really have any close ties there. From my experience it's more common for Buffalonians (?) to have friends and family in the GTA simply due to the size differences. Windsor, Niagara and Sault Ste Marie are quite the opposite in this regard though.

A fairly good number of my grandparents' and great-grandparents' family members migrated to the BosNYWash corridor of the U.S.

One of my Maritime-born grandparents also worked in NYC for a time but moved back to the Maritimes to marry an Acadian and settled permanently there.

I wouldn't recognize any of these American relatives if they were sitting next to me on a bus and to my knowledge I only have one great aunt who is in occasional contact with one great uncle down in the States.

All of the others have disappeared from the family radar and are of course firmly ensconced in American life and I suppose many of their descendants have moved west and south outside of the BosNYWash corridor.

I was born in Edmundston, New Brunswick, right across the river from the town of Madawaska, Maine. All lot of people (including me) have some ancestors from that part of the state (Aroostook County) who, as Americans, barely spoke English. It's funny because a lot of Americans in Madawaska and the surrounding towns of Fort Kent and Frenchville have Acadian family names like Levesque, Daigle and Caron, without speaking French at all.

The relationship is pretty good. Citizens of both countries cross the border bridge at least once a week, mostly to shop or eat. I myself drive to Long Lake, Maine everytime I go to New Brunswick, and the restaurant is filled with French Canadians and Americans. Interesting relationship really.

This always irks the living hell out of me.

2/3 lives on the st lawenerence and it's associates water ways.

Which happens to be the historical core of the country.

In the west it's laregly because of climate, and are usually near states that are even less populated then our own.

The idea that we want to be next to our american neighbors only really holds true in BC, and I'd think it's much more a mutual desire in those areas.


Anyway I don't really view america as a coherent country. It's the india of the west.

A place to large and sprawling to be a proper country.

I know exactly which restaurant you are talking about - The Sporting Club!

That place is great!

You got it! Best ribs in Maine hands down.

I don't really think anyone is suggesting that that is a primary factor in settlement patterns in Canada. The reasons you gave tend to be the right ones.

Ployes too!

It's certainly as much a coherent and proper country as Canada is.

Not sure what your view is on that...

Always an interesting topic. In the London area, especially as you go west of London, there's definitely a strong relationship with the U.S. The various Detroit pro sports teams (Tigers, Red Wings, Lions, Pistons) have always had a strong following in SW Ontario, especially around Windsor. Detroit media also has a strong following; to this day you can buy the Detroit Free Press in some stores in London.

Recently there was a news story out of Buffalo that made news in Canada, and of course in Southern Ontario people are interested in major news in Buffalo since many people travel there. But there was a comment on Facebook from someone in Edmonton who didn't understand why something happening in the U.S. was making news in Canada. I have also seen the same thing with major Detroit news getting covered by CBC Windsor; people in SW Ontario are interested but people from other parts of Canada go on the comments board and protest CBC covering news in another country, without understanding the relationship between Detroit and Windsor.

My two cents:

As far as the Maritimes are concerned, although there are a number of small border towns in NB (St Stephen, Woodstock, Grand Falls, Edmundston), the main axis of Maritime population is a fair distance from the border, and even a greater distance from the nearest sizeable American city. Even Saint John, the nearest large Maritime city to the border is about 2.5 hours from Bangor, Maine. Halifax is six hours from Bangor.

Consequently, the US is a vacation destination place for most Maritimers, rather than a fact of everyday life. I think the New England states probably factored more in the consciousness of Maritimers a couple of generations ago, when many people migrated to the states for employment in the large factories of Massachusetts and northern New England. My own mother was born in Rumford, Maine.

Especially after WW2, these tied that bind gradually began to flicker and extinguish as new US immigration rules took effect. The waves of human migration began to stop and as time passed, the Canadians already living in the states lost interest in their Canadian relations. My grandfather who moved to Maine, remarried after my grandmothers death and had a second family down there. Consequently I have a whole second set of American relations that I don't really know anything about. I met my half-aunts once, but we have never kept in touch.

I think this gradual distancing of relationships is also playing out on the larger stage as well. After WW2 and into the 50's and early 60's, Canada was viewed as a "little brother" to the States and almost like family. The relationship was "special". That has been changing, especially since 9-11. Canada is now increasingly viewed as being like any other country by the US.

I think this progression is pretty natural really........

RE: Montreal. It always surprises me how strongly Canada = Montreal in Boston. Not only do they know it, but it's their entire reference point for Canada. Most don't know St. John's, obviously. Everyone knows either Newfoundland or Nova Scotia but often think the name applies to all Atlantic Canada. And they always ask how far it is from Montreal.

Well no here, but in general I think alot of americans see this settlement pattern as part of our structural dependence on the US.

I mean what relavence does that statistic ever have?

Culturally I agree neither makes sense as a country.

However in the US's case I think it's population is too large to be a real country on a structural level.

And migration to the U.S. by Maritimers was replaced by migration within Canada (westwards) in the transition from my grandparents' generation to that of my parents.