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bomberjet Feb 5, 2015 4:43 PM

Chipman's point is they did see the video. Mayor is denying he saw the video, so lying. Maybe it was an informal, come to my office after the game thing. Still seen the video.

Of course the video does not talk of all the details of how it came to be. But they're still lying in saying that they didnt see the video. Or they did see the video, but it didnt show any details as to where the project was.

esquire Feb 5, 2015 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 6902661)
Chipman's point is they did see the video. Mayor is denying he saw the video, so lying. Maybe it was an informal, come to my office after the game thing. Still seen the video.

Of course the video does not talk of all the details of how it came to be. But they're still lying in saying that they didnt see the video. Or they did see the video, but it didnt show any details as to where the project was.

I'm not sure what difference it makes either way whether or not Bowman saw the video. Does anything turn on this point? It's not like the video explains the relevant machinations behind the deal, unless maybe there is a special team owner extended cut that only Chipman has access to...

bomberjet Feb 5, 2015 5:02 PM

No, but Chipman's getting thrown under the bus in the papers. So he's standing up for himself, which he has a right to do. Bowman et all are calling him a liar, so he threw it back in their face. That's all.

Has all of the back room talks been above board, I don't know. Not really defending anybody in that sense. Just laying out the facts.

Simplicity Feb 5, 2015 5:06 PM

The issue is what I had originally suspected and that is that True North got involved to kill a hotel deal on the 220 site.

The rest of it is nonsense. The city is littered with the ghosts of renderings and proposals past. Winnipeg - on the downside of the real estate curve and with our national economy slowing - cannot house three more towers. Everybody knows this. Maybe with MLL moving into the building and a more upscale hotel that takes the NHL room nights you have the beginnings of one, but three? CentrePoint still has vacancy. Glasshouse still isn't close to sold out. Maybe you convince a couple tenants to leave 360 Main and 201 Portage, but of what benefit is this to the city? There isn't one. Has the Hydro building fundamentally changed the way people interact with downtown? Has is spurned all sorts of follow-on economic development? No. Has the MTS Centre? Not even close.

Mark Chipman knew exactly the sort of ignorance he was pandering to when he showed a video some kid could've thrown together in 20 minutes and had everybody fawning. This is beginning to remind me of the Trizec debacle. It was ridiculous to see him trying to pretend like there are always this begrudging group of negative people trying to stand in the way the altruistic things they're trying to accomplish like he's completely deaf to why. And you saw the real Mark Chipman yesterday which is a petulant, petty, self-absorbed little man-child lucky his father came first who's going to lash out publicly at anybody who calls out his publicly funded empire building for what it is and threaten to take his toys home.

If Mark Chipman wants to build his empire, he can do it without repeatedly sloughing off the risk on the public and taking all of the upside home with him.

Simplicity Feb 5, 2015 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 6902695)
No, but Chipman's getting thrown under the bus in the papers. So he's standing up for himself, which he has a right to do. Bowman et all are calling him a liar, so he threw it back in their face. That's all.

Has all of the back room talks been above board, I don't know. Not really defending anybody in that sense. Just laying out the facts.

If you want to turn this into a semantical argument at the risk of losing the forest for the trees, Bowman said he didn't have all the details regarding a hotel on the site. What he also said was that he had heard rumor of one but saw nothing concrete. And that's still true.

As it turns out, there isn't a hotel on 220 Carlton anymore. And that didn't come out until yesterday's press conference. Just some fancy graphic Perkins & Will hammered out so everybody who owns a Jets jersey would see it and slink back into where Mark Chipman sees their rightful place.

Being that Chipman is a lawyer, there's an old saying in the legal world. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. And if you have neither, pound the desk. Yesterday Mark Chipman did a lot of breathless desk-pounding about being impugned. An irrelevant sidebar issue that distracted from the real issue which is that we're left with nothing more than some glossy renderings and everybody's insistence we take their word for everything.

esquire Feb 5, 2015 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 6902706)
Mark Chipman knew exactly the sort of ignorance he was pandering to when he showed a video some kid could've thrown together in 20 minutes and had everybody fawning. This is beginning to remind me of the Trizec debacle. It was ridiculous to see him trying to pretend like there are always this begrudging group of negative people trying to stand in the way the altruistic things they're trying to accomplish like he's completely deaf to why. And you saw the real Mark Chipman yesterday which is a petulant, petty, self-absorbed little man-child lucky his father came first who's going to lash out publicly at anybody who calls out his publicly funded empire building for what it is and threaten to take his toys home.

Believe me, I appreciate the things he has done for this city but let's not pretend that it's all a selfless act of altruism. Whoever at TNSE thought it would be a good idea to put Chipman on a podium and let him rant about the mayor's questions was, to be frank, an idiot. Chipman looked awful... simultaneously defensive and accusatory, and basically making veiled threats to kill a nonexistent development because the mayor is asking too many questions. Probably the first time Chipman has ever looked downright ugly in public. No small feat for The Man Who Brought the Jets Back to Winnipeg.

I'd ask why the Free Press is taking his side so vociferously, but I guess you only have to look at page after page of Birchwood car ads and Jets coverage to know why.

The Unknown Poster Feb 5, 2015 5:33 PM

True North got involved to kill a hotel deal? What nonsense is that? Such egos around the anti-Chipman crowd. Its pathetic.

SOD wanted out of their obligation to find a hotel because they had no one who was interested in doing it. It was after that that True North looked at 220.

Besides which, CV has no obligation to request RFP's. They owned the land and they made a deal where apparently there was only one interested party. The deal is legally binding and TN could sue if they wanted to (I dont think it will come to that).

Bowman saw the video, lied about seeing it (or for some "reason" cant remember seeing it). The video clearly identifies 220. Whats more, and I think this is Chipman's point, this was so NOT a backroom secret deal that he showed Bowman and Chief the video in a casual way after a Jets game and thus, any questions Bowman had, he was free to call Chipman...just as easily as he texted Chipman to say "hey we're at the game, lets hang out after" which led to him seeing the video.

There should not be an expectation that every detail of every business dealing is made public at every step. Is that how you'd want to operate your business? There is NOTHING to indicate that True North's option on 220 was anything but above board other then the Mayor trying to frame it that way and lying about what he knew.

Now please save the anti Chipman rhetoric.

The Unknown Poster Feb 5, 2015 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 6902720)
Believe me, I appreciate the things he has done for this city but let's not pretend that it's all a selfless act of altruism. Whoever at TNSE thought it would be a good idea to put Chipman on a podium and let him rant about the mayor's questions was, to be frank, an idiot. Chipman looked awful... simultaneously defensive and accusatory, and basically making veiled threats to kill a nonexistent development because the mayor is asking too many questions. Probably the first time Chipman has ever looked downright ugly in public. No small feat for The Man Who Brought the Jets Back to Winnipeg.

I'd ask why the Free Press is taking his side so vociferously, but I guess you only have to look at page after page of Birchwood car ads and Jets coverage to know why.

Your perspective is opinion and one not shared by many other people. I'd say that public opinion is strongly on the side of Chipman. If people call his honesty and integrity into question over a $400 million downtown investment, then good for him for firing back. He didnt look ugly at all. Looked like a businessman who was angry at his integrity being questioned.

Simplicity Feb 5, 2015 5:38 PM

Not that the Free Press really had any credibility remaining, but this is pretty incredible stuff.

I can't remember a time when somebody's been able to use a local media source with this sort of ease and bluntness. The paper spent 3 years dismantling the credibility of Shindico and Katz and everybody else over precisely these sorts of issues. The moment a Chipman is involved they attempt to walk back their entire topic's work by claiming the mayor - somebody elected in a landslide on a central tenet of doing away with these sorts of shenanigans - is being overly officious and that we need to accept these sorts of deals as the reality involved in municipal development.

We're witnessing a paper completely beholden to its shareholders and largest advertisement and content providers. And nobody should be surprised.

Simplicity Feb 5, 2015 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster (Post 6902780)
Your perspective is opinion and one not shared by many other people. I'd say that public opinion is strongly on the side of Chipman. If people call his honesty and integrity into question over a $400 million downtown investment, then good for him for firing back. He didnt look ugly at all. Looked like a businessman who was angry at his integrity being questioned.

Here's what you need to understand. And I've tried to tell you this before so I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but not everybody is as ignorant as you. Some of us have spent many years in the development world and know how it works. Because you can rattle of the Jets top two lines does not qualify you to speak on anything. Can we finally be clear on this?

The vast majority of the world thought the earth was flat and put people to death over speaking otherwise. You'd be among those. I'm sure you'd have been very proud at the time too.

esquire Feb 5, 2015 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 6902788)
Not that the Free Press really had any credibility remaining, but this is pretty incredible stuff.

Well said. They aren't even pretending to be detached from the situation. That editorial slagging Bowman for potentially jeopardizing the TN Square project might as well have been written by Scott Brown. There have clearly been favours called in because this kind of crazy full court press in the WFP I don't recall seeing since the push to get governments to absorb the Jets' operating losses back in the Spirit of Manitoba days of 1995.

drew Feb 5, 2015 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 6902720)
Believe me, I appreciate the things he has done for this city but let's not pretend that it's all a selfless act of altruism. Whoever at TNSE thought it would be a good idea to put Chipman on a podium and let him rant about the mayor's questions was, to be frank, an idiot. Chipman looked awful... simultaneously defensive and accusatory, and basically making veiled threats to kill a nonexistent development because the mayor is asking too many questions. Probably the first time Chipman has ever looked downright ugly in public. No small feat for The Man Who Brought the Jets Back to Winnipeg.

I'd ask why the Free Press is taking his side so vociferously, but I guess you only have to look at page after page of Birchwood car ads and Jets coverage to know why.

I agree.

Again, once all the facts come out (assuming someone actually wants to "report" on this...) and the awe of the video wears off, I think Chipman is going to take a pretty big hit in terms of his reputation.

The second you leverage your position on a volunteer board of a publicly funded entity for profit and/or advantage, it's going to look bad, whether or not it was intentional. Resigning your position on the board is not enough. The advantage of the position has already been used.

TN should have said, we are interested, but this needs to be above board (especially given recent events at City Hall). First get out of your agreement with the contractor. Get the word out there for expressions of interest. If TN is the best option following that, great. Let's move ahead. It's very obvious that nothing even close to that occurred.

bomberjet Feb 5, 2015 5:55 PM

Simplicity,

Allllllllllll I was saying is that Chipman get's shit on in public and he's defending himself. What's wrong with that.

I really hope all this gets built, like most projects that are proposed. We get the economy in Winnipeg is not New York City. So we can't even talk about anything, or look at pictures. Because we're all just fucking stupid? Give it a rest already man. We know you have superior knowledge on economics and development than anybody else. But calm down with the chest thumping already. You just ruin anything discussions.

Simplicity Feb 5, 2015 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew (Post 6902816)
The second you leverage your position on a volunteer board of a publicly funded entity for profit and/or advantage, it's going to look bad, whether or not it was intentional. Resigning your position on the board is not enough. The advantage of the position has already been used.

Exactly. You've got a board full of your cronies and you're trying to convince the public that during your very short stay on a very strategic board that just happened to benefit you the most you went out of your way to recuse yourself from meetings during which this was discussed and you expect that to suffice. Because I'm sure the only time this was discussed was within the official minutes of the board meetings. Unbelievable, really...

Ando Feb 5, 2015 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 6902799)
Here's what you need to understand. And I've tried to tell you this before so I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but not everybody is as ignorant as you. Some of us have spent many years in the development world and know how it works. Because you can rattle of the Jets top two lines does not qualify you to speak on anything. Can we finally be clear on this?

The vast majority of the world thought the earth was flat and put people to death over speaking otherwise. You'd be among those. I'm sure you'd have been very proud at the time too.

You know, you really are a piece of work. You go on and on about your vast knowledge but your postings are full of speculation. Basically, you write a new chapter of your manifesto every day on these forums. I honestly have a hard time believing you actually have a full time job and are able to constantly monitor and comment. As soon as someone disagrees with you, all of a sudden they are ignorant and you go into your petty schoolboy name-calling routine even though you have no idea what the person does or what their experience might be. Your rather simplistic formulas is: Those who agree with me are development geniuses. Those who disagree with me are ignorant.

The Unknown Poster Feb 5, 2015 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 6902799)
Here's what you need to understand. And I've tried to tell you this before so I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but not everybody is as ignorant as you. Some of us have spent many years in the development world and know how it works. Because you can rattle of the Jets top two lines does not qualify you to speak on anything. Can we finally be clear on this?

The vast majority of the world thought the earth was flat and put people to death over speaking otherwise. You'd be among those. I'm sure you'd have been very proud at the time too.

How is a loser like you even allowed to post here when you spend half your time insulting others for an opinion that differs from your own?

I mean it would be one thing if your position wasnt clearly influenced by bias. You're "simply" an asshole and you make this place a nasty negative experience for people.

You're the type of internet tough guy that would never have the balls to speak to people in person the way you do online. Quite frankly, you come across a lot less intelligent than you think you are because you spend so much time trying to convince people you're the smartest guy here.

You're not only an idiot but a first rate dick too. Please do the world a favour and go fuck yourself.

To everyone else, I apologize for the language but it really drags this forum down to have Dbags like this loser around.

Ando Feb 5, 2015 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew (Post 6902816)
I agree.

Again, once all the facts come out (assuming someone actually wants to "report" on this...) and the awe of the video wears off, I think Chipman is going to take a pretty big hit in terms of his reputation.

The second you leverage your position on a volunteer board of a publicly funded entity for profit and/or advantage, it's going to look bad, whether or not it was intentional. Resigning your position on the board is not enough. The advantage of the position has already been used.

TN should have said, we are interested, but this needs to be above board (especially given recent events at City Hall). First get out of your agreement with the contractor. Get the word out there for expressions of interest. If TN is the best option following that, great. Let's move ahead. It's very obvious that nothing even close to that occurred.

sorry, but Chipman is not going to take a hit to his reputation, but Bowman has taken a huge hit to his. The video is self-explanatory, if one is not able to follow it then one is not qualified to be the mayor of a large city. True North has done a lot for the city and if Bowman doesn't completely screw it up (he's trying) they can do a lot more.

The Unknown Poster Feb 5, 2015 6:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ando (Post 6902841)
You know, you really are a piece of work. You go on and on about your vast knowledge but your postings are full of speculation. Basically, you write a new chapter of your manifesto every day on these forums. I honestly have a hard time believing you actually have a full time job and are able to constantly monitor and comment. As soon as someone disagrees with you, all of a sudden they are ignorant and you go into your petty schoolboy name-calling routine even though you have no idea what the person does or what their experience might be. Your rather simplistic formulas is: Those who agree with me are development geniuses. Those who disagree with me are ignorant.

Well said. He's probably some drooling shut in living in a shack somewhere. That would explain his hate of successful people.

Ando Feb 5, 2015 6:11 PM

na

The Unknown Poster Feb 5, 2015 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 6902706)
The issue is what I had originally suspected and that is that True North got involved to kill a hotel deal on the 220 site.

The rest of it is nonsense. The city is littered with the ghosts of renderings and proposals past. Winnipeg - on the downside of the real estate curve and with our national economy slowing - cannot house three more towers. Everybody knows this. Maybe with MLL moving into the building and a more upscale hotel that takes the NHL room nights you have the beginnings of one, but three? CentrePoint still has vacancy. Glasshouse still isn't close to sold out. Maybe you convince a couple tenants to leave 360 Main and 201 Portage, but of what benefit is this to the city? There isn't one. Has the Hydro building fundamentally changed the way people interact with downtown? Has is spurned all sorts of follow-on economic development? No. Has the MTS Centre? Not even close.

Mark Chipman knew exactly the sort of ignorance he was pandering to when he showed a video some kid could've thrown together in 20 minutes and had everybody fawning. This is beginning to remind me of the Trizec debacle. It was ridiculous to see him trying to pretend like there are always this begrudging group of negative people trying to stand in the way the altruistic things they're trying to accomplish like he's completely deaf to why. And you saw the real Mark Chipman yesterday which is a petulant, petty, self-absorbed little man-child lucky his father came first who's going to lash out publicly at anybody who calls out his publicly funded empire building for what it is and threaten to take his toys home.

If Mark Chipman wants to build his empire, he can do it without repeatedly sloughing off the risk on the public and taking all of the upside home with him.

HAHAHAHAHA I would have loved to have been there the day this idiot asked Chipman for an autograph and got brushed off leading to the creation of this angry, bitter alter ego. Or maybe Mark just pissed in this goofs cornflakes one day.


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