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-   -   Where Is The Rust Belt? (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=240727)

photoLith Oct 20, 2019 2:35 AM

Where Is The Rust Belt?
 
As some may know, I've been spending the last 6 years taking photos of every single historic church of the Rust Belt before they close. My question is, does this map represent the region that is the rust belt or is it more confined? My experience after living in Pittsburgh for 7 years is that most towns and cities within a 7 hour drive of here, minus D.C. and NYC are complete crap holes with some or many exceptions. To me, the Rust Belt extends from most towns and cities from St. Louis north to Milwaukee, south to Louisville and over to Utica, NY and then all of WV, most of PA, and all the towns and cities located along the Ohio River Valley. The only exceptions to the Rust Belt with population gain are certain areas of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, most of Columbus, only some hoods of Cleveland, etc. Most small towns in the entire rust belt, minus some college towns are completely destroyed. Anyways, does this map to you represent what is the Rust Belt?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...73a0e858_o.jpgrust-belt-map1
https://beltmag.com/mapping-rust-belt/

pdxtex Oct 20, 2019 3:41 AM

it starts in albany and ends in st louis. these days though, i think cultural and historic lines are becoming blurred. were seeing decay and revival in the same city. black people are leaving the north for the south, white hipsters are moving back to city centers. malls are dying but start ups and virtual economies are thriving....its a big demographic and economic cuisinart......the midwest will probably always be in flux but as long as populations stay stable or even have mild growth, id say none of these towns are rusty anymore.....every town has a stable side and a poor side. i think were just seeing the end result of reurbanization and the continuation of redlining.....

Sam Hill Oct 20, 2019 2:37 PM

Complete crap holes? Completely destroyed?

James Bond Agent 007 Oct 20, 2019 4:06 PM

I just noticed Ohio is the only state entirely in that Rust Belt map.

Got me thinking of this.

Video Link

bnk Oct 20, 2019 4:31 PM

Funny not. LOL


The entire state of Ohio is not rust belt. Good portions of Ohio are doing really well economically. If you don't believe it I can provide links. But take my word for it.


What a crappy map. Was that from like 1990?

Even Chicago is tech now. Manufacturing has left other than a few big projects still working. This map looks and acts like two decades ago.

And Baltimore has recovered lol. What a creepy map.

dc_denizen Oct 20, 2019 6:03 PM

meanwhile in the rust belt:

FCA to open Jeep factory in Detroit, invest $4.5 billion in southeast Michigan

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...uv/2989129002/

Quote:

Detroit will get a Jeep factory, the Motor City’s first new auto assembly plant in a generation, as part of a $4.5 billion manufacturing expansion in southeast Michigan by Fiat Chrysler that will mean nearly 6,500 new jobs, the company announced Tuesday.

FCA said it would convert the Mack Avenue Engine factory to an assembly plant for the next-generation Jeep Grand Cherokee and a new, large Jeep SUV. In all, the company said it will add production at five factories in metro Detroit.

“This is the way the city of Detroit fights unemployment and poverty,” Mayor Mike Duggan said of the Mack Avenue assembly plant. “Standing here today, to be back in the city of Detroit, is truly remarkable.”

Market economist Jon Gabrielsen, who consults in the auto industry, called the plan "an absolutely huge commitment on the part of FCA; $4.5 billion is over half of FCA’s average annual global capital investment being spent in just one city.”

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer concurred, noting that the economic impact was broad.
GM to invest $3 billion at Detroit-Hamtramck for electric truck

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ck/4017189002/

Quote:

eneral Motors Co. would invest $3 billion into Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly for electric trucks and vans under the tentative agreement with the United Auto Workers, according to pages of the agreement obtained by The Detroit News.

Overall, the Detroit automaker would invest $5.7 billion into five plants and $2 billion into U.S. plant refurbishments over the life of the four-year deal. The $7.7 billion commitment represents 9,000 new and retained jobs. The details were not disclosed in a union summary of the agreement.
Quote:

Wentzville Assembly in Missouri would receive a $1.5 billion investment to build the next-generation of mid-size pickup trucks, which would retain 2,000 jobs. The plant currently builds the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon mid-size trucks and the Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana full-size vans.
although I'm pissed about Lordstown assembly, my next door neighbor growing up worked there (thanks americans, for disdaining american made vehicles).

maybe one of our great silicon valley gnostic capitalists can buy the factory for high-volume electric car production.

dc_denizen Oct 20, 2019 6:07 PM

Inside Fiat Chrysler's Toledo turnaround

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industri...edo-turnaround

Quote:

At a time when national UAW membership fell 8 percent in 2018 after rising for nine consecutive years, and has failed to organize a single U.S. assembly plant owned by a European or Asian automaker, FCA's Toledo plant has more than tripled its workforce to 5,700 workers since 2009.

dc_denizen Oct 20, 2019 6:10 PM

whats this?

Once US’s ‘Economic Laggard,’ Michigan’s Economy Is Succeeding Where Ontario’s Has Failed; Here’s Why

https://www.theepochtimes.com/once-u...y_3103255.html

Quote:

The economies of Ontario and Michigan have a lot in common, but while Michigan—once known as the “economic laggard” of the United States—has experienced a surge in economic and employment growth thanks to pro-growth policy reforms, Ontario’s economy has shown a weak performance in recent years because of policy changes that undermined growth prospects, a new study says.

“In the face of daunting challenges, Michigan took charge of its economic future with an ambitious reform package that has coincided with substantial job growth and a rebirth of manufacturing in the state,” said Ben Eisen, senior fellow at the Fraser Institute and co-author of the study. “Ontario should take note of Michigan’s policy reforms and its successful economic turnaround.”

The economies of both Ontario and Michigan took a hit during the recession of the late 2000s, but while Ontario lost close to 170,000 manufacturing jobs from 2007 to 2017, Michigan added 47,000 jobs during the same period, the study says.

The authors say the Rust Belt state’s superior economic performance came as a result of a series of policy reforms in 2011 that spurred the economy, including tax reforms and lowering of the corporate income tax, budget cuts and spending limits, and passing right-to-work legislation—which ended unions’ ability to require compulsory fees. They add that while it may be hard to make causal links between any specific policy change and the state’s economic performance, “it would be important for Ontario’s policy-makers to study Michigan’s initiatives.”

According to the study, prior to 2011, growth in Michigan’s real per-capita GDP—a measure of the economic output per person—was significantly lower than Ontario’s, even before the crash of 2008/2009. However, after the state started the policy reforms, the situation has reversed, with Michigan having an average per-capita GDP growth of 1.7 percent compared to Ontario’s 1.2 percent.

A similar trend is observed in manufacturing output in the two jurisdictions, with Michigan having an output growth of 3 percent after 2011, while Ontario has had 1.8 percent. This growth has meant that Michigan has also enjoyed higher manufacturing employment growth compared to Ontario.

Besides the manufacturing sector, Michigan has had a higher overall private-sector job creation than Ontario, with an average 1.9 percent annual private-sector employment growth compared to 1.4 percent in Ontario.

The state has experienced better fiscal outcomes as well, whereas Ontario has run continuous budget deficits, resulting in substantial accumulation of debt, the authors say.

dc_denizen Oct 20, 2019 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnk (Post 8722996)
Funny not. LOL


The entire state of Ohio is not rust belt. Good portions of Ohio are doing really well economically. If you don't believe it I can provide links. But take my word for it.


What a crappy map. Was that from like 1990?

Even Chicago is tech now. Manufacturing has left other than a few big projects still working. This map looks and acts like two decades ago.

And Baltimore has recovered lol. What a creepy map.

I take it you don't like the map? :cheers:

Sun Belt Oct 20, 2019 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_denizen (Post 8723075)
I take it you don't like the map? :cheers:

The map must've been made by a resident of Pittsburgh.

According to the map, Pitt "recovered" [despite it's MSA having negative population growth this decade -- -1.34%]. Meanwhile Chicago never "recovered" and the most successful city in terms of population growth, Columbus +11%, isn't even on the map. Columbus MSA has also passed up Cleveland MSA.

toddguy Oct 20, 2019 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 8722661)
As some may know, I've been spending the last 6 years taking photos of every single historic church of the Rust Belt before they close. My question is, does this map represent the region that is the rust belt or is it more confined? My experience after living in Pittsburgh for 7 years is that most towns and cities within a 7 hour drive of here, minus D.C. and NYC are complete crap holes with some or many exceptions. To me, the Rust Belt extends from most towns and cities from St. Louis north to Milwaukee, south to Louisville and over to Utica, NY and then all of WV, most of PA, and all the towns and cities located along the Ohio River Valley. The only exceptions to the Rust Belt with population gain are certain areas of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, most of Columbus, only some hoods of Cleveland, etc. Most small towns in the entire rust belt, minus some college towns are completely destroyed. Anyways, does this map to you represent what is the Rust Belt?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...73a0e858_o.jpgrust-belt-map1
https://beltmag.com/mapping-rust-belt/

Not all of Ohio is/was the rust belt. Columbus is not listed on the map because it never was a rust belt city/was never dominated by manufacturing-it has always had a more diversified economy. I would also say the same for most of Central Ohio. Columbus would certainly be listed as a recovered rust belt city if it had ever been one.


I think having /being dominated by lots of manufacturing and then losing it is more of the definition of rust belt-from all of the old manufacturing plants abandoned and "rusting"-at least that is how I always thought of it.

https://via.library.depaul.edu/mom/29/ -dominant industry in 1950-Columbus is the only one listed as "administration"-although the map is supposed to represent rust belt cities and includes Columbus?

Centropolis Oct 21, 2019 1:42 PM

i think illinois looks pretty accurate...st. louis is effectively an extension of this with its local coal mines and the iron/lead mines in missouri.

used to be interurbans criss-crossing the prairie around galesburg between the minor manufacturing towns like kewanee (huge boiler factory). its effectively a constellation of small rustbelt cities set in a "corn sky."

IWant2BeInSTL Oct 21, 2019 4:10 PM

thank god somebody finally started a rust belt thread.

JManc Oct 21, 2019 5:09 PM

People are picking apart the map but miss the fact the Erie, Wilkes-Barre, Cincinnati to name a few are misspelled...

mrnyc Oct 21, 2019 5:56 PM

eerie -- and a bias halo around pitts -- perfect for halloween tho :slob:

actually not bad if you want to focus on the small towns and leave out the cols/indy if that is your purpose -- which i think it is. :tup:

IrishIllini Oct 21, 2019 6:41 PM

Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Baltimore are recovered rust belt cities but no Chicago? Chicago, Columbus, Grand Rapids, and Indianapolis should have some green around them.

Centropolis Oct 21, 2019 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8724059)
Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Baltimore are recovered rust belt cities but no Chicago? Chicago, Columbus, Grand Rapids, and Indianapolis should have some green around them.

that image is 10 years old and was 10 years behind at least when created.

iheartthed Oct 21, 2019 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8724059)
Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Baltimore are recovered rust belt cities but no Chicago? Chicago, Columbus, Grand Rapids, and Indianapolis should have some green around them.

I don't think Grand Rapids was ever really Rust Belt. Muskegon probably is, though.

That map should probably not be colored yellow in Michigan for points west of Lansing... Maybe even points west of Wayne County (Detroit). Ann Arbor/Washtenaw County is mostly the opposite of Rust Belt, with Ypsilanti being the debatable exception. Benton Harbor and Muskegon seem like the only true contenders for Rust Belt status west of Lansing, but they aren't the primary cities. Ypsilanti also isn't the primary city in Washtenaw County.

Buckeye Native 001 Oct 21, 2019 8:35 PM

I've always gotten the impression that after Chicago, places like Kansas City, Columbus, Indianapolis, Grand Rapids and Minneapolis/St. Paul best represented the Midwest's attempts to shake it's Rust Belt image, at least over the past several decades.

Then again, there's places like Cincinnati that were never really Rust Belt.

xzmattzx Oct 22, 2019 3:38 AM

Baltimore, Camden, and Reading were never the Rust Belt. Massachusetts was never the Rust Belt. Just because a place had manufacturing 75-100 years ago doesn't mean it's the Rust Belt.

Maybe someone can correct me, but the Rust Belt is generally accepted to be Midwest/Great Lakes cities that saw industries leave when Japan became a giant, and were run down for a couple decades. The Rust Belt is based on what happened in the 1970s and 1980s. Not every place in the Rust Belt is part of the Rust Belt, but the Rust Belt generally is Buffalo, western Pennsylvania, northern Ohio, southeast/southern Michigan, northern Indiana, and northern Illinois. At least that is what I have always thought it was.


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