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-   -   Greater Paris (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=132579)

Minato Ku Jun 5, 2007 7:57 PM

Greater Paris
 
Paris is a tiny municipality wich has 2.1 million inhabitants inside 87 km2
But the city of Paris didn't changed since the 19th century and now the city is a lot bigger than the municipality

These picture prove how outdated Paris city limit are outdated :tup:

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla2/paris_border.jpg
The city of Paris is the oval ring in the center of the picture.

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla2/paris_border_2.jpg
The city of Paris is in the center, NOT in the forefront. The wooded area on the right side of the picture is Boulogne wood.

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla2/paris_border_3.jpg
The city of Paris about the wooded area, NOT the built-up area. This picture shows actually Vincennes wood, which is as Boulogne inside the administrative borders of Paris.

The idea is simple like London, Paris should be fusioned with its inner suburbs.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1...ofpariscq4.jpg

Greater Paris ak Core of urban area coeur de l'agglomeration.
This area has 6.718.400 in 728 km²

With this limit, it would be more easy to make comparaison with other cities
because nowaday the city Paris is less populated than Rome or Berlin. :koko:

Swede Jun 5, 2007 8:28 PM

I'm all for it. NOT because it'd make camparing easier - comparing municipal borders is silly anyway- but becasue I think having the urban core and at least the inner suburban areas integrated into one municipality is a good way to run things (while having more local councils for the sub-districts inside the municipality - like Paris already has, right?).

btw - in Sweden the municipalities are called "kommuner" (kommun in singular) which is after the French word iirc :)

Fabb Jun 5, 2007 8:29 PM

I voted "good idea".
But the romantic image of Paris would suffer if it was suddenly turned into a giant metropolis.

Minato Ku Jun 5, 2007 9:14 PM

But an image of giant metropolis is better for the business than a romantic image. :haha:

The tourism is only 7% of Paris economy.
7% it is very huge, it is larger than the GDP of most European cities


Don't worry Swede the main reason for Greater Paris is a better distribution of the money and a bigger budget. :tup:

Today Paris has 10 billion € for 2.1 millions inhabitants
but the Ile de France region has 5 billion € for the rest. (9 million inhabitants)
Paris doesn't have intercommunality (It is not one budget but 127 budgets for 127 municipalities) and no equitable budget for the whole core.
Some municipality are very rich and some are very poor

Greater Paris would have a budget higher than 25 billion € (If we additionate the budgets of the 137 municpalities)

And the Ile de France would have the same budget than now but for only for less than 5 million inhabitants .

R@ptor Jun 5, 2007 9:44 PM

I really don't know if that's a particularly good idea and if the majority of the people living in central Paris would like to see this.
I just returned from 5 days in Paris 2 days ago and the differences between central Paris and some of the suburbs, especially those in the northern parts couldn't possibly be any larger. The Paris inside the ring highway is a piece of urban art, while some parts of the Paris outside the ring highway are as close to slums as you can get in western Europe with lots of crime and poverty. If both parts would be unified that would mean that a lot of the money of central Paris would flow into the parts outside of downtown and I'm not so sure if the Parisians would welcome that.

Grumpy Jun 6, 2007 8:18 AM

I guess a greater Paris would be good to improve more important decisions.
Knowing La Défense lies in 4 communities.
On the other hand I never understood why there are so many villages in France.
Merging villages around huge urban areas could be good cause to many local "bourgmestres" think they own their little spot on the map.

Perhaps changing some bounderies within the Parisian area could be better but on the other hand what is the point really...just say that the IdF region is Paris is fine by me

Minato Ku Jun 6, 2007 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R@ptor (Post 2879619)
I really don't know if that's a particularly good idea and if the majority of the people living in central Paris would like to see this.
I just returned from 5 days in Paris 2 days ago and the differences between central Paris and some of the suburbs, especially those in the northern parts couldn't possibly be any larger. The Paris inside the ring highway is a piece of urban art, while some parts of the Paris outside the ring highway are as close to slums as you can get in western Europe with lots of crime and poverty. If both parts would be unified that would mean that a lot of the money of central Paris would flow into the parts outside of downtown and I'm not so sure if the Parisians would welcome that.


Inner Paris has also dangerous districts A lot of northern district of¨Paris looks at Saint Denis with a lot of old and modern buildings but poorer than the southern and western suburbs
The 18th, 19th and 20th arrondissement are less expensive than Sceaux, Levallois, Boulogne Issy les Moulineaux, Montrouge, Neuilly, Vincenne, Saint Mande...
and suburbs = slums is a myth.


Some pictures of inner suburban municipalities
Some are in northem surburbs

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._entrance2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t-de-Lisle.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/11.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/13.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/15.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/18.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/19.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/22.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/23.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/24.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/25.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/27.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/57.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/60.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/66.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/goodi...e-st-denis.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/goodies/st-mande3.JPG
http://grandparis.free.fr/quiz/goodies/vincennes.JPG


A picture of Aulney sous Bois suburbs, municipality know by the riot of 2005
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-sous-Bois.JPG

Some municipalities have horrible public housing block but the majority has Haussmannian building a lot of modern offices and housing building and little urban houses. :yes:

Minato Ku Jun 6, 2007 11:09 AM

And Raptor now many parisian familly go live inner suburbs for a better quality of life.
You have the density and the urbanity of Paris in more modern building. :yes:
Some northerm municpality are vey attractive by the rich it is like Harlem.

The northern surburbs change and with more money it would change faster.

R@ptor Jun 6, 2007 1:01 PM

Of course Paris has some really nice and expensive suburbs, I never doubted that, especially those in the west. But there are also many poor suburbs. And its always quite complicated to run things in municipalities that are quite different.
Each of them has totally different needs and with the current system, there is an administration for each municipality who knows specifically about the needs of it. I doubt this would be the case if you centralize the entire administration.

Minato Ku Jun 6, 2007 1:34 PM

Don't worry greater Paris like the Paris would have arrondissements. ;)

But too many municipalities are very difficult for planned big projects.

Exemple the Metropherique (Circular metro line in inner suburbs) should me more easy to built if it would be in one city, but today it is more than 20 city for 40 station :nuts:
This line is very important 1 million passengers per day are planned it would derserve important business district (Val de Seine, La Defense Levallois, Plaine Saint Denis...)

The area of greater Paris has 137 municipalities for only 6.7 million inhabitants and 723 km²

Minato Ku Jun 6, 2007 1:54 PM

137 municipalities for 728 km² and 6,718,400 inhabitants

It is in average
5.3 km² per municpality
49,039 inhabitants per municipality

le calmar Jun 6, 2007 6:31 PM

Who cares about the city limits anyways? When we talk about a city, we talk about the agglo right? This case applies to many north american cities.

Minato Ku Jun 6, 2007 7:03 PM

Yes but Greater Paris would have a better distribution of the money and a bigger budget.
It would be better for build the Metropherique.

But even the tiny inner Paris with only 2.1 million inahabitants is the second economic municipality in Europe with a GDP of € 161 billion ($ 217 billion)

city dweller Jun 7, 2007 2:33 AM

Is this just a proposal you made up or is the government actually considering doing this? I voted yes because, frankly, I think it's about time it had a boost in size (both land and population). It's an Alpha world city and should be presented as such. Although I see where the nays are coming from - I'd hate to see beautiful central Paris suffer from it (this prospect made me somewhat ambivalent), but in the end I think incorporating the outer ring is the better of the two ideas. How about making all of Île-de-France "Paris" - imagine a "Paris" with 11,491,000 people - it would be bigger than New York or London! Awesome. :yes:

Minato Ku Jun 7, 2007 7:53 AM

It is the both.

The problem with Ile de France cover also rural area.
See the map less than 40% of Ile de France is urbanised
Some part of Ile de France are not in Paris metro and some place outside Ile de France are in Paris metro area.
For me Greater Paris should be the core of urban area (The zone with a hig density, offices, shop..) and not the low density suburbs.

* Paris with 6.7 million inhabitants has a bigger GDP than Greater London and would be one of richiest cities in the world :D
with Tokyo (8 million) New York (8 million) Greater London (7.5 million) Paris (6.7 million)

Sinha Jun 7, 2007 9:05 PM

Very good idea for me:tup:

brisavoine Jun 8, 2007 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swede (Post 2879440)
btw - in Sweden the municipalities are called "kommuner" (kommun in singular) which is after the French word iirc :)

In Sweden everything comes from France. Even the royal family. LOL.

brisavoine Jun 8, 2007 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R@ptor (Post 2879619)
I really don't know if that's a particularly good idea and if the majority of the people living in central Paris would like to see this.
I just returned from 5 days in Paris 2 days ago and the differences between central Paris and some of the suburbs, especially those in the northern parts couldn't possibly be any larger. The Paris inside the ring highway is a piece of urban art, while some parts of the Paris outside the ring highway are as close to slums as you can get in western Europe with lots of crime and poverty. If both parts would be unified that would mean that a lot of the money of central Paris would flow into the parts outside of downtown and I'm not so sure if the Parisians would welcome that.

It's a bit as if you were arguing that the Bronx and Brooklin shouldn't be part of New York City because people in Manhattan don't like that their money flows into poor areas of the Bronx or Brooklin. :sly:

brisavoine Jun 8, 2007 12:17 AM

On the other forum I made a map showing what I would include in a Greater Paris. This is the map below. In blue it shows all the current municipalities that I think should be part of this Greater Paris merger. Below I put a map of Greater London at the exact same scale so people can have an idea of size. Note that at the 1999 census the population was 8,268,158, but by now it should be about 8,700,000 due to high population growth in Greater Paris since 1999.

The Greater Paris I proposed there would have a land area of 1,635 km² (631 sq. miles), which is almost the same size as Greater London (1,579 km²), larger than New York City (785 km²) or the City of Moscow (1,081 km²), but smaller than Tokyo Prefecture (2,187 km²) or the Municipality of Shanghai (6,341 km²). As of now the City of Paris has a land area of only 105 km² (40.4 sq. miles), which is only barely twice the size of the island of Manhattan.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/687...aterbq6bv3.png

Matty Jun 8, 2007 1:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato Ku (Post 2880799)
attractive by the rich it is like Harlem.

I hope you don't mean Harlem, Manhattan, New York...


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