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-   -   SAN ANTONIO │ Frost Bank Headquarters │ 386 FEET | 23 FLOORS │ Complete (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=211992)

STLtoSA Oct 6, 2015 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireoutofclay (Post 7187607)
New Frost Bank HQ needs 'wow' factor to trigger more downtown development, city leader says
W. Scott Bailey
San Antonio Business Journal
Jun 8, 2015, 11:13am CDT
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantoni...gger-more.html

This older article was posted previously, but I missed this part. I was under the impression that the HDRC would have little to no say on this building.

Quote:

The new Frost headquarters tower will be constructed on a site that falls within the city’s Military Plaza Historic District. Therefore, according to Lori Houston, director of San Antonio’s Center City Development and Operations Department, the Historic and Design Review Commission will have a key voice in the ultimate design of the new tower. That has some individuals predicting that the final product may be more complementary than contemporary.
I'm sure it'll all work out, but I have to admit I was relieved when I thought the HDRC was out of the picture.

I don' really get that quote. Unless they have expanded the Main/Military Plaza Historical District, the tower site does not fall in the district. I made this map from COSA Development Services source data today.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t.jpg~original

kornbread Oct 6, 2015 5:36 PM

Just having some more fun here:cheers:

I looked around on Pelli Clark site and tried to imagine what a HDRC influenced tower would look like for that area:
http://pcparch.com/project/carnegie-hall-tower
http://pcparch.com/img_cache/ac0f4a1...chitecture.jpg
So it has a little of the courthouse feeling with the colors with the white limestone accents.
Make the windows appear taller or more narrow and match the roof to the San Fernando spires and there you have it.

Fireoutofclay Oct 6, 2015 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STLtoSA (Post 7188235)
I don' really get that quote. Unless they have expanded the Main/Military Plaza Historical District, the tower site does not fall in the district. I made this map from COSA Development Services source data today.

My thoughts exactly! And yet a later article expands on it a little more.

New Frost HQ could energize downtown
W. Scott Bailey
San Antonio Business Journal
Jun 12, 2015, 5:00am CDT
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantoni...-downtown.html

Quote:

Some critics are concerned San Antonio’s tight embrace of history and preservation will prevent the development of anything too bold — despite the fact that Frost Chairman and CEO Dick Evans believes there is an opportunity to create catalytic change downtown with the construction of the new headquarters tower. But Houston believes the HDRC and San Antonio’s Office of Historic Preservation will be receptive to new ideas.

“The Office of Historic Preservation is a great partner,” Houston said. “All parties want the new tower to be iconic ... .”
Could they be mistaken? Or is there a buffer zone just outside these Historic areas that the HDRC also reviews?

STLtoSA Oct 6, 2015 7:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireoutofclay (Post 7188392)
Could they be mistaken? Or is there a buffer zone just outside these Historic areas that the HDRC also reviews?

They could definitely be mistaken. I thought the same thing about a possible buffer, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having a district (in a way it already has a buffer; the district extends a block off of Military and Main Plaza in each direction).

I don't know much about the HDRC. The site itself has some beautiful oaks (which many will hopefully be kept), but there are no historical structures on the site. I believe that they could still have some say, but being outside of the Historical District I would think that their authority diminishes.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Fireoutofclay Oct 6, 2015 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornbread (Post 7188330)
Just having some more fun here:cheers:

I looked around on Pelli Clark site and tried to imagine what a HDRC influenced tower would look like for that area:
http://pcparch.com/project/carnegie-hall-tower
http://pcparch.com/img_cache/ac0f4a1...chitecture.jpg
So it has a little of the courthouse feeling with the colors with the white limestone accents.
Make the windows appear taller or more narrow and match the roof to the San Fernando spires and there you have it.

The upside if it's true is that PCP's design will probably sail right past the HDRC.

Fireoutofclay Oct 6, 2015 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STLtoSA (Post 7188477)
The site itself has some beautiful oaks (which many will hopefully be kept), but there are no historical structures on the site.

There is a plaque on the northwest corner of Camaron and Houston referencing the wall of the motor bank. I've read it so many times, but I can't remember for the life of me exactly what the significance of the wall is, but I know the plaque was put the by Frost Bank itself.

https://goo.gl/maps/LDzDLyW6rbA2

You can also see those beautiful oaks. :treehugger:

aggie2008 Oct 6, 2015 10:26 PM

HDRC sees cases on things outside of historic districts including things that are in RIO overlay districts and public property. I'm guessing this falls under the RIO district. It has different rules and regs than a historic district does though.

TexHorn Oct 7, 2015 4:24 PM

This project is so big and important that HDRC's input won't really matter. They are only an advisory committee and the city can and would ignore their input if Weston, Frost, and the City Council disagree with it.

STLtoSA Oct 7, 2015 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireoutofclay (Post 7188546)
There is a plaque on the northwest corner of Camaron and Houston referencing the wall of the motor bank. I've read it so many times, but I can't remember for the life of me exactly what the significance of the wall is, but I know the plaque was put the by Frost Bank itself.

https://goo.gl/maps/LDzDLyW6rbA2

You can also see those beautiful oaks. :treehugger:

The stones used in part of the wall were part of the Presbyterian church that stood on the corner of N Flores and W Houston.

texboy Nov 24, 2015 10:39 PM

Travis Commercial, REATA secure coveted listing for Frost Tower

Quote:

The $142 million tower, which is projected to provide approximately 400,000 rentable square feet, is still in the preliminary design stages. Internationally renowned architecture firm Pelli Clarke Pelli was selected in mid-September to lead the design for the development. Groundbreaking for the high-rise is planned for late summer 2016, with work expected to complete sometime in late 2018 or early 2019.

kornbread Nov 25, 2015 2:19 AM

Quote:

Frost Bank, the main tenant for the 18-floor building, will occupy 250,000 square feet in the lower floors of the property, with the remaining floors available for companies looking at downtown San Antonio from a different perspective.
This building keeps shrinking. So now it will be a mass of a building that takes up the whole block? This must be a misprint.

sirkingwilliam Nov 25, 2015 7:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornbread (Post 7247490)
This building keeps shrinking. So now it will be a mass of a building that takes up the whole block? This must be a misprint.

Haha.

No, it won't be 18 stories.

Not sure where she pulled that number from. Thin air it seems.

tsm Nov 25, 2015 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7247725)
Haha.

No, it won't be 18 stories.

Not sure where she pulled that number from. Thin air it seems.

It's not too far off from 18 though.

GoldenBoot Nov 25, 2015 4:07 PM

Very plausible. A ~40-story, 400,000 SF office tower is not. The floor plate size would be prohibitive to most potential tenants. And less one forgets, almost 38% of this tower is SPEC space.

The 18 stories was not taken "out of thin air." 18-levels of rentable office space sounds about right for a tower of this size (400,000 SF of rentable office space). That would be ~22,200 SF floor plates...again, about average for an office tower. Add 10 levels of podium parking and you get a 28-story building. A 28-story tower with podium parking can still reach 400' tall without a decorative crown. With a decorative crown, this tower can still reach the 518' outlined in Weston's proposal to the city.

Christianmx Nov 25, 2015 9:21 PM

142 million tower. How much of a tower does that buy? Does anyone know how much went into the Alteza? :(

Christianmx Nov 25, 2015 9:28 PM

I had not realized that Pelli Architects was leading the design. I'm sure the wait will be worth it.

GoldenBoot Nov 26, 2015 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christianmx (Post 7248466)
142 million tower. How much of a tower does that buy? Does anyone know how much went into the Alteza? :(

For a bit of a comparison (and Austin is a bit more expensive to build within than San Antonio)...

Recent Austin towers:
-The Austonian - Residential - 683' - $275 million
-The W Hotel & Residences - Hotel & Residential - 474' - $350 million
-The Fairmont - Hotel - 456'/595' - $375+ million


On top of this, I am not sure of what the actual development cost of The Independent. However, I can tell you it is north of $375 million (689' - all Residential).

With regard to Third&Shoal, Austin Proper, Shoal Creek Walk, The "Google" Tower, 70 Rainey, etc., all I would expect to be above $180 million in total development costs. In fact, I thing the new, ultra skinny, 26-story 416 Congress boutique hotel tower is going to cost worth of $150 million...if built.

sirkingwilliam Nov 26, 2015 1:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot (Post 7247986)
Very plausible. A ~40-story, 400,000 SF office tower is not. The floor plate size would be prohibitive to most potential tenants. And less one forgets, almost 38% of this tower is SPEC space.

The 18 stories was not taken "out of thin air." 18-levels of rentable office space sounds about right for a tower of this size (400,000 SF of rentable office space). That would be ~22,200 SF floor plates...again, about average for an office tower. Add 10 levels of podium parking and you get a 28-story building. A 28-story tower with podium parking can still reach 400' tall without a decorative crown. With a decorative crown, this tower can still reach the 518' outlined in Weston's proposal to the city.

It's not 18 stories nor will it be 18 stories.

sirkingwilliam Nov 26, 2015 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texboy (Post 7247197)

Clicked to see if they edited their article. They did. They removed the "from thin air" 18 story figure.

Again, not sure why it said that in the first place, but like I said, it won't be 18 stories. I literally chuckled when I read it the first time.

ILUVSAT Nov 27, 2015 1:49 AM

I do not believe anyone said the tower will be a TOTAL of 18 stories. However, 18 stories of office space is possible (based on the overall RSF). There is a difference!

No office tower will have 10,000 SF floor plates. And, the 400,000 SF of rentable space should be a HUGE clue as to how many office levels this tower will have. I believe this tower will have between 16 and 20 levels of office space.

As already mentioned, should they place a parking podium underneath, this tower could reach 27-31 stories (assuming 10 levels of parking + a ground level consisting of a lobby and possible retail). With a tall decorative crown, I would also concur that this building could still be in the 500-550' range.

Weston is not stupid. A huge portion of this tower is speculative office space. He's not going to gamble too much on an unproven office environment in downtown SA. It has been ~30 years since the last office tower was constructed. The office market could explode, however, we do not know as of yet. But, 400,000 SF is not a lot of space. Austin's ~400' "Google" tower is currently under construction and it will have about 500,000 SF of office space. Frost Tower is ~525,000 SF of office space and 515' tall (with a parking podium and decorative crown).

SKW, since you are in the "know," how tall will this tower be? For several months now, you have been bashing the rational folks simply expressing their seemingly educated opinions - definitively declaring that we are all wrong. I think I am one of several who would like to see you step up to the plate with a real specific "guess" of what this tower will be instead of just cutting us off, saying, conclusively: "it will NOT be this" or "it will NOT be that."

How about you provide us with your specific guess as to the total number of floors (divided into ground level, parking, and office space) and a guess as to the total height based on the aforementioned levels plus decorative crown? How big will the office floor plates be? Since you are in the "know," you should have first-hand knowledge of the currently-in-design plans for this tower.

Thanks and I look forward to your guesses with extreme enthusiasm.


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