Beltline vs. Connaught/Victoria Park
 

I realize what a dumb idea this is for a thread, but I'm just curious...

Personally, I hate the name Beltline. It's too broad of a term that covers all the way from Stampede Park to 14th street.

Everyone is probably familiar with this picture...

http://2.beltline.ca/media/bltnnommap_e_1.jpg

Discuss! don't wanna start a flame war haha

Why is Mission in the title? It isn't considered apart of the Beltline like Connaught and Vic Park.

It's not? I can change it

In your map, Mission would be south of 17th, east of 4th. Even the nomenclature shows just Vic Park and Connaught FWIW, I'm pretty indifferent, though if pressed, I'd say I prefer the Victoria Park/Connaught set up to the Beltline one :).

Should have paid attention a little more. Thanks!

If it's possible, can somebody remove it from the poll options please?

All I know is that Beltline was the name of the streetcar route that circled Connaught and Vic Park. I use either without giving much thought to it.

There should be a both option in the poll.

I'd probably call these areas by different names in different situations. If I were hanging out with a lame-ass married couple in McKenzie town, I'd probably just inaccurately call it all "Downtown". I almost never use the name Connaught except in the rare occasion when I might be referring to the school. If someone asked me where Guardian is, I'd ordinarily reply "Victoria Park", but I don't think "Beltline" would be incorrect. The majority of times, I use street names to describe locations within the Beltline. I'm also forgiving to those who include Mission and Lower Mount Royal as part of their definition of "the Beltline", as people who live there frequent many of the same businesses and services as those in the Beltline, further blurring already ambiguous boundaries. Were I to go to the Ship & Anchor, I might say that I'm going to "Mission" to distinguish the area from proper "Beltline" locations like 11th St and 14th Ave SW, and because a day the starts at the Ship & Anchor might end at a friend's apartment in Mission or a restaurant on 4th St. I might especially allow myself such an indiscretion were I speaking with my Kensington friends, as their flight path varies significantly depending on whether they are heading to 4th St & 17th Ave, 8th St & 17th Ave, or 14th St & 17th Ave. Likewise, I allow indiscretions between Sunnyside, Kensington, and Hillhurst (although, areas west of 10th St are NOT Sunnyside, much less those west of 14th Street!); and I'm lenient when it comes to descriptions of Bankview, South Calgary, Richmond Park, Knob Hill, Marda Loop, Altadore, and Mount Royal. All of these areas flow into each other, and often a pedestrian barrier divides a community where one might not expect a boundary to be drawn. My philosophy is that you should know the technical name of the community in which you live, you should know all the bus routes that flow through your area and generally where they lead, you should know the common name for the business revitalization zones and high streets in the area, but you should also be receptive enough to understand what people mean should they use an improper term. Meaning is constructed by speaker and listener. When all else fails, use street names and addresses.

As a resident of the East Victoria neighborhood of the East Beltline/Victoria Park wayfinding area of the Beltline community (I think that's right) I normally use landmarks instead of any of those names. That is, "I live across Macleod from Stampede Park/the Saddledome". I find that seems to cause the least confusion for people. I had been using Victoria Park but a surprising number of people have no clue where that is. I avoid using "Beltline" as in my mind that implies more 17th Ave than Stampede Park.

Bike couriers call it The Belt - east Belt, west Belt, mid Belt.

I find younger and newer Calgarians call it Beltline, but sometimes don't understand the boundaries particularly well.

The official Beltline Community nomenclature of the sub neighbourhoods - no one except Rob Taylor (Community Association President) use or understand.

You see some long time Calgarians call it Victoria Park or Connaught or "Victoria Park & Beltline" but that is getting rarer.

To locate within the (rather large) Beltline, I usually use cross streets, "Beltline - at 1st and 12th" rather than a neighbourhood name within it.

I propose officially changing "Lower Mount Royal" to "Below the Belt". I'd rather that then being Upper Mount Royal's bitch.

Awesome and yes. LMR is 10x the neighbourhood that Upper Mount Royal is.

^ LMR doesn't really feel like its own neighbourhood; it just feels like an extension of the Beltline. Whereas Cliff Bungalow and Mission at least feel a bit different, albeit definitely connected to the Beltline.

It does have a different character being exclusively low-rise, but sharing 17th with Beltline does make it feel integrated in a sense. Mission having its own main street gives it its own identity even though it has the low-rise, high-rise mix like Beltline.

It could just be a low-rise portion of the Beltline. I always just thought it was the Beltline until a neighbourhood map proved me otherwise.

Lower Mount Royal is really going through a maturation right now. In particular, the area near Mount Royal Village (technically the Beltline?) is becoming a hub unlike anything Calgary has seen. The combo of Hanson Square, the Devonish, and MRV is really going to give the area an urban feel - not to mention thousands of new residents in Montana, Drake, Smith, MRV Tower, the Block, Ten, Uno, and others within a block or 3. Other notable renovations have hugely transformed the area as well:

-Buy Rite Grocery ---> Analog
-Source Adult Video ---> 80th & Ivy
-Roger's Video ---> Cibo

We took some of the worst spots on the strip and turned them into landmarks! Come to think of it, I wonder if the end of video stores fuelled restaurant real-estate boom. I forgot to mention other renos like Classic Jack's, Moxie's, the Pint (say what you will, the building is way better than what used to be there), Jameson's Pub (once a Dollar Store), and others. Lots has been done, but there's still work to do. I'm most excited about renovations at the old TD Bank building at 9a St. Increasingly, this area (17th Ave SW from 7th St to 14th St), always a hot part of town, has been building its own identity. It's MUCH different than 10 years ago, and is probably more like Queen Street (Toronto) or West Broadway (Vancouver) than anything else Calgary has. Of course, it's sunnier. And better.:runaway:

I live in Connaught but I just tell people that I live in the Beltline unless I need to be more specific, as Connaught doesn't seem to be as well known as other areas. Vic Park seems to be more well-known, I assume it's due to the CTrain station being there.

I use "Beltline" and usually explain "south of Downtown" if there's any confusion. That always does the trick. If I have to explain where Lower Mount Royal is, I can normally just say "by 17th Ave." And if I need to explain something in the eastern part of the Beltline, usually "by the Stampede grounds" will suffice.

A distinction: if I am explaining the difference in my commute to the office in comparison to me (almost exclusively) suburb or town-dwelling coworkers, I will tell them that I live downtown.

And the whole neighbourhoods/wayfinding areas thing is something I find both ridiculous and unwieldy.

Personally, I'd prefer they do away with the Vic Park branding and just name the lower station "Erlton" and the upper station "Stampede."

Honestly, nomenclature in this city seems like a constant attempt to please everyone.

I use Beltline, and Victoria Park, but never Connaught. I think Beltline is fine, no need to have sub neighbourhoods within it. Also, Stampede Park shouldn't be considered a part of the neighbourhood, it has no connection (figuratively, not literally) to it and is it's own entity.

I'm not sure I'm capable of talking about this subject in a constructive and polite way anymore. Any time anyone brings it up I can't help myself from becoming agitated by the sheer stupidity of it all.

I understand that two separate community associations that represented Connaught and Victoria Park officially amalgamated about ten years ago. Fine, good, whatever: the goings-on at the community association level of local government are small fry in the big pond and I couldn't care less if the former community associations thought they would be able to do a better job of representing both neighbourhoods by amalgamating into one overarching group.

What bothers me is that somebody at that level decided that the names Connaught and Victoria Park themselves should be ERADICATED from the public lexicon and replaced with 'Beltline'. Now at the mere mention of Victoria Park and Connaught a few people are quick to remind us all that those names "don't have any geographical significance anymore" and we should stop using them.

I feel that neighbourhood names are organic--they grow out of common use--and I resent that some group of local busybodies decided to push their own agenda through. I resent being told that I'm 'wrong' when I use the names Connaught and Victoria Park, especially because I'm not the one who has created confusion: they are!

There was no confusion over what we should call "the area between the CPR tracks, 17th Avenue, 14th Street SW and the Elbow River" (at this point I kinda feel like it should be "you-know-where" or "the-area-that-must-not-be-named"...) before the community associations amalgamated. Absolutely no problem at all. The fact that the chart in the opening post even exists is perfectly emblematic of how much of a folly this renaming endeavour is.

As annoying as it is to be 'corrected' it's also a nice reminder that I'm right. If I say 'Connaught' and someone tells me "it's Beltline now" it means that they know exactly where Connaught and Victoria Park are, which is a mark of a good neighbourhood name.

"Beltline" to me is akin to "Downtown". "Downtown Calgary" is an overarching term that encompasses the commercial core, the west end, the East Village, Chinatown, Eau Claire, etc. "The Beltline" is an overarching term for Connaught and Victoria Park. I don't see why we must use Beltline or Connaught/Victoria Park, or why the latter two need to be expunged from our vocabularies. Especially since they still carry significance despite the best efforts of some, as evidenced by the fact we're having this discussion at all. If I tell you to meet me downtown you might ask "Where, more specifically?" A rational, sane person wouldn't excoriate me for saying "Meet me at Eau Claire!" Why that can't be the case for Beltline/Victoria Park/Connaught I will never understand.