What the hell is this crap

Don't forget to add these as well while we're at it:

http://static1.techinsider.io/image/...-look-like.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XB4ZkUM-h8...ure%2B3799.jpg

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/...ure-225827.jpg

Modern renderings of skyscraper proposals really lack girdles, petticoats, and men's walking canes.

I hope that this is not the updated plan for 30th Street. :yuck:

Truly I'm filled with glee when looking at this development by Drexel University. If we continue to keep both Penn and Drexel students after they graduate this is the start of new horizons. By time this development is completed our population will have grown enough til Philadelphia will have more than 2 million people living here. Image that!

I love this!!!!! But.... I feel sorry for the future Drexel students whose tuition will undoubtedly reach further astronomical figures. Roughly $46k/yr now (base tuition, excluding books, housing, etc).. what will in be in 10 years? $80k/yr?

Why? Brandywine is the developer and is likely paying for the development of the buildings. Drexel is providing the grounds and is presumably getting money from Brandywine for grounds leases. That's how the ACC developments for Chestnut Square and the Summit at Lancaster were pitched.

Imagine that! It'll be like 1960! Just joshin'. But what the ****, let's shoot for four million, right? :P

But honestly you're absolutely right, and Drexel is doing what it needs to do to keep their graduates in town. And why wouldn't they want to do that? They foster the talent, then employ it. The thing I love about Drexel is that it simply understands innovation in a way you rarely find outside Cupertino.

An innovative school doesn't start on an isolated campus, it's integrated into the working fabric of a city and with the people who will use those innovations.

In a lot of ways, I think Drexel's innovative aspirations not only match those in technology corridors, it supersedes them by planting it firmly in a centralized urban environment. Instead of wooing talent to the suburbs in places like Redmond or the Silicon Valley, Drexel is planted smack in the middle of a city...a city in the middle of the northeast corridor. People can crap all over the city all they want for being in the shadows of NY and DC, but a time will come when that centralized proximity will be a true asset.

Thirty years ago, no one knew San Francisco and Seattle would be turning out the latest and greatest gadgets. Ten years from now, no one knows where those gadgets will come from, or even what they'll be.

Drexel's doing what it needs to do for Philadelphia to be a contender in an unknown future, and doing it a lot better than most. We're on a path where we could easily reclaim the name the "Workshop of the World" while San Francisco and Seattle struggle to fill their lofts. The shift "back east" makes sense, and it looks like Drexel wants to own it.

It's a very good start for Drexel. Especially, if Drexel can monetize these innovations by getting royalties, a % of the start up shares, or make an investment for a return or rights on the innovation. Keeping the best and the brightest will be a challenge, but if Drexel can provide the platform, seed money, entrepreneurial experience, and ultimately full commercialization of the products/service for which there is a market, it will reward and benefit all those that are involved. Fingers crossed.:tup:

Random morning thought:

I wonder how ambitious Drexel is? I mean, as a school? They're traditionally known as a working- and middle-class-oriented tech school, but it feels like they're aiming to increase their prestige in much the same way Temple feels like it's aiming to be listed in the same breath as Pitt and Penn State as a top-tier public school.

At a certain level, we're already part of the way there. Even our more traditionally working-class institutions tend to be more nationally prestigious in terms of academics than many of our peer cities'. And in a lot of markets, the most prestigious institutions lay outside the city proper (whereas here, we've got them in the core). Think about where UM is in relation to Detroit, or CU in relation to Denver, or -- heck -- even Oregon and Oregon State in relation to Portland.

A lot of American higher-education markets have prestige without real proximity to the core city. Others have schools in the core that suffer from a relative lack of prestige -- think about Georgia State, which should be Georgia's Temple (to Georgia Tech's UPenn/Drexel) but is a fraction as prestigious an institution as Temple is. Or perhaps Wayne State in Detroit and Cleveland State in Cleveland. Relatively few markets have a critical mass of prestige right in their core.

This is a major advantage Pitt and Boston leveraged, and that New York, Chicago, and LA don't really need to leverage. It's also an advantage that Houston has (look how close prestigious Rice and working-class UH are) -- but, interestingly enough, the Dallas metroplex may not. Most importantly for us, it's an advantage which we're leveraging just as we're becoming more confident as a city and region.

Drexel And Brandywine Bet Big On University City With Giant Schuylkill Yards Project

Read more at: https://www.bisnow.com/archives/news...iversity-city/

Outside of mechanical engineering, Drexel's largest student body is Biology. My guess is that its all about the biotech innovation. All universities are moving into the "innovation" direction...Jefferson, Penn, Drexel. ie...innovation neighborhood. If they continue to grow, continue to build, and obtain patents while fostering innovation, students will keep on coming. Think less of it as a "school" and more of it as a "university" which encompasses much more than just getting people degrees. They have been this for a long time now, but they are really pushing it these days...

With Schuylkill Yards proposed, and FMC and other University City projects under construction on the west bank of the Schuylkill, and (whether you like it or not) 2400 Market under site prep for its eventual overbuild, I think that Philadelphia and PennDOT should focus on making the Chestnut and Walnut Street Bridges as grand and ornate as the Market Street Bridge. The Chestnut and Walnut Street Bridges are nothing more than glorified highway bridges that should not be charged with making the connection between Center City and University City. Also, although it has improved over the years (ex. taking down the highway signs from the Walnut Street Bridge), the Market Street Bridge is most attractive to pedestrians.


With the end of their useful lives approaching, this is something that needs to be pushed for. The connection between Center City and University City on Chestnut and Walnut Streets should be more ornate, welcoming, and friendlier to pedestrians.

It's a nice thought but:
1) there is no state budget currently
2) when there is a budget 23% of the bridges in this state are "structurally insufficient" and 44% of the state's roads are in "fair" to "poor" condition.

And those are 2013 numbers. I don't think things have gotten better in the last three years. There simply isn't money for adding gingerbread to the bridges when they are in danger of collapsing elsewhere.

Actually things have gotten (oh so slightly) better. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but Act 89 has helped to cut into those numbers just a bit. But we're still in rough shape.

Yea, I don't understand all the kvetching about how tuition is going to go up to cover this. That couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything this will keep tuition down as it establishes alternative funding sources for Drexel.

Unless a private sugar daddy or non-profit steps up to fund a fancy looking bridge, beyond one that simply serves it stated purpose, then a basic bridge is what we are going to get.

I actually have no problem with that. Opportunity costs for more important societal items beats building a fancy style bridge.

Right...All these Universities need to keep in mind that at some tuition cost, now or in the future, they will price out prospective students. It's not easy for families, let alone middle class families, to shell out 45-60k in tuition for the next 4 years. So, if enrollment goes down, this is one of the reasons.:yes:

Look, the bridges don't need to be made of marble and gold. A little attention to beauty goes a long way. If it's not "off the shelf" parts, it's a cop-out to say that concrete and steel cannot be fashioned into something more than the usual bland crap. Look at how many historic churches and homes used inexpensive materials, but cared enough (via faux painting, or whathaveyou) to make them look like a million bucks. Heck, even the Romans put a veneer over brick and concrete most of the time.

HAHA :haha:
Famous Last Words

Sincerely
Arch+Eng
Recent Drexel Alumni

I'm not trying to assert that at all. Some of the most beautiful bridges use those construction materials. It's just that the Chestnut and Walnut Street Bridges could be way better than they are right now, and that attention to detail should be employed when their replacement comes up within the next 10 years (so I've heard).

I was supporting you, dude, and disagreeing with those deriding your suggestion as unaffordably "fancy."

Sorry man! That's what doing papers and studying late into the night does to me sometimes. College problems haha! :P

I'd be happy if they just put planters on the Chestnut and Walnut street bridges like they did for the Market Street bridge. They really make crossing a little less daunting since it adds a layer of separation between pedestrians and cars. And the greenery is nice!

Bridges
 

It is in the works, though who knows with the state budget situation.

http://centercityphila.org/docs/Task...outs061815.pdf

Yeah I was wondering why PhilliesPhan was coming against you coz you were actually affirming what he was saying lol. :)

The Chestnut Street bridge once was a unique masterpiece -- a rare cast-iron arch designed by one of the great engineering geniuses of the age, Strickland Kneass.

http://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoAr...2&ImageId=4566

http://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoAr...&ImageId=35946

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KCGPKzMQEa...dge+before.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/ca8189216...o5_r1_1280.jpg

http://technical.ly/philly/wp-conten...z_1photo_4.jpg

The Walnut Street Bridge was a much more utilitarian and industrial (but still beautiful) truss span.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-389Itv6Nwc...ridge+1893.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zXzXPN9UCk...ron+rails.JPEG
In Dallas the arty parts of the Trinity bridges are being funded through private donations. TxDOT was only willing to spend the minimal needed to keep the span up; that Santiago Calatrava stuff is entirely privately funded.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/trans...geRunners9.jpg

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/f...479-139082.jpg

I would dearly love to see those highway bridges replaced with much more elegant spans. Chestnut, Walnut, Spring Garden, Girard, and even JFK Boulevard. The Seine's bridges are part of Paris' charm; with all the beautification around the Schuylkill, why not pay the extra needed to do the same here?

It was only because I misread it. I didn't get much sleep last night due to a paper I had to write and studying right after. That's life the of a college student summarized haha!

I realized my mistake and apologized, however. We're all good! :cheers:

I never realized how beautiful the Walnut Street Bridge used to be. Both the old Walnut and Chestnut Street Bridges were elegant spans that connected Center City and West Philadelphia.

The old Chestnut Street Bridge and the current Market Street Bridge, along with the fact that I visited Paris last year on a study abroad trip and was able to experience the beauty of the Seine and all of its river crossings during a Seine River cruise, is exactly why I brought up bridges. As you also mentioned, east bank of the Schuylkill is going through a renaissance. The west bank may go through one with the full build-out of the envisioned 30th Street District, since a pedestrian walkway straddling that part of the river is planned. If CC and UC are going to continue to become unified, one way to make the Schuylkill seem like a feature of the two CBDs instead of a barrier is through its bridges. I am way more inclined to walk across the Market Street Bridge than either JFK, Chestnut, Walnut, Spring Garden, or Girard. The pedestrian experience of walking across the bridge is what will help sow the two districts together.

Additionally, I think that the Schuylkill River could have some excellent potential for river cruises from Fairmount Dam to Bartram's Garden. Better bridges are a surefire way to improve that experience, similar to what I experienced in Paris last year.

walnut st bridge
 

I can't remember where there are, but I've seen piles of the old metal handrails from the Walnut St. bridge laying around in west Fairmount Park. It wasn't that long ago that Walnut St. was rebuilt.

You don't have to go remotely as far afield as Paris to see that beautiful bridges are (or could be) a major tourist asset. I mean, people do river cruises in New York, Chicago, and Pittsburgh for much the same reason.

And yes, I agree: there is no reason at all the Schuylkill shouldn't be spanned by a succession of beautiful bridges all the way from Manayunk to Girard Point. The money spent investing in their beautification would be more than recouped marketing them as a tourist destination in their own right.

BTW the first Spring Garden bridge:

http://images.fineartamerica.com/ima...-eric-nagy.jpg

It was washed away in a flood, and would be replaced by this bridge for the Centennial Exposition:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-q8iPErKdrF...bridge+one.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-i9CtdDNqIQ...bridgedeck.jpg

Interestingly enough, its cast iron arches fell off around the fin de siècle, revealing the truss span holding it up.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3lkajvlIXe...e+3-8-1904.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c-J3thN5Pa...ridge+1960.jpg

I have seen with mine own two eyes today a SHoP rendering showing a tall building on the site of Cira II, along with the rest of Schuylkill Yards.

It may not happen because it seems like they're trying to keep the area around 30th Street Station as green as possible. Might have more details later in the weekend or Monday.

Keep in mind that Brandywine wouldn't have ever proposed Cira II if they didn't have development rights over that little chunk of exposed trackwork next to the station.

The PDFs I have on hand indicate that the final plan is for the plaza around the station to be ~100k sf and that's without the Schuylkill Yards plaza across the street.

It's gonna be a beautiful area when everything's all said and done.

If the plan is to provide a fully underground connection between the main station and the el stop, though, I think it would be a good idea to put the west headhouse in the corner of the Bulletin building (i.e. 3001 Market).

The only reason Cira II wasn't shown in the "Schuylkill Yards" renderings is that the site at 30th and JFK - which Amtrak calls the "black hole" - was not included in SHoP's study boundary.

At one point, Brandywine was in negotiations with Amtrak for the development rights to this parcel, but they do not own the site - Amtrak does (the area below is the tracks which connect the Penn Coach Yard south to the NEC, as well as a service road connecting into the yards). Until they are back at the table, nothing is going to happen here.

That said, the long-term plan is still to have a tower on that site. It just isn't part of Brandywine and Drexel's partnership, and it depends entirely on Amtrak reaching some agreement with Brandywine.

I know 100% that there will be Cira II on some type of building built eventually on this plot. I know someone who works for Brandywine and they're pretty serious about it eventually happening, and said we could hear further plans on it in 2016 (this was last year I spoke with him).

Fantastic job by Eigenwelt!

Love everything about the varied designs and the layout. I especially love the "gold" glass on many of the buildings. So tired of the dreary mirrorish silver. On overcast days silver glass almost appears invisible sometimes.

#loveschuylkillyards!:tup:

I like the prospects of a major skyscraper node for the neighborhood. Having two clusters across the river. It will be nice from an aesthetic standpoint having skyscrapers line the Schuykill. University City as an extension of Center City. Hopefully it will set the precedence for some nice infill in Powelton Village.

30th st station area
 

More than 40 years ago Edmund Bacon talked about the potential of this area as a new center of Philadelphia. He based his reasoning on the fact that it could draw new business as a center of what was called in a 1950s book "megalopolis". i.e., the continues dense aggregation of large urban centers stretching from Boston to Washington DC all linked by rail and Rt 95.For sure in the 1960s it did take a man of vision to image what is now happening there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis_(city_type)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis_(city_type)


In his later life he did become something of a curmudgeon

https://loveatfirstsnap.files.wordpr...ly1.jpg?w=1200

Photo courtesy: Love at first Snap Photography http://loveatfirstsnap.org

There were some wild renderings for this area even before Bacon. As grand as Broad Street Station was, it's use as a terminal instead of a true station didn't do it any favors in a future where so many cities were interact the way they do now. It seems like city planners knew this as early as the 1920s, and it was likely one of the main reasons they moved the station atop the northeast corridor's tracks.

If the city hadn't gone into such a decline after the Depression, this area would probably already be "Center City." Cira Centre was really the thumbs-up to finally move forward with a 100 year old idea, and just ten years later University City has a skyline that looks like a city.

I was riding my bike past this area today and it occurred to me that Schuykill Yards is the biggest argument against the capping of the rail yards. If there is enough room for 8 towers that will take 20 years to build...capping the rails just doesn't make any sense when you realize how much space Philly has to grow.

Meh...I'm not sure how this is an argument "against" development over the rail yards. It just means that this 8 MSF will be the first phase of a much larger development. Actually, I'd say that Drexel's bit of Schuylkill Yards (let's assume the whole yards redevelopment eventually takes this name too) is really a prerequisite for development in the rail yards. With the full thing built out, value (read: rents) in the district will be much higher than it is today. Which is necessary if you're going to invest in buildings over railroad tracks.

Agree. The railyards are ugly and should be capped eventually to take this city into the 21st century. It's just a matter of it being economically viable. This development will help usher that economic viability in and needs to happen first.

This project looks awesome, I must admit. One thing to keep in mind though is with a 20 year project, absolutely anything can happen. Anywhere from nothing actually getting done, to exactly these renderings getting built.

20 years goes through multiple real estate market conditions, multiple bear/bull markets, multiple highs/lows etc.

I just don't see this getting built as shown. The best bet for that, IMHO, is if the supertall is constructed first, and the project works backwards from tallest to shortest.

I'm not a "Negative Nancy", but I am having a hard time getting behind this project as shown.

Not really. It's a progression of which space is most economical to develop:

SY > filled SY makes maintenance yards economical to develop > filled maintenance yards makes the Penn Coach Yards economical to develop > filled maintenance + Penn Coach yards makes Powelton Yards (i.e. stuff that Philly District 30 doesn't show developed on the renders but if you talk to staff you quickly find out they want to keep development potential open) economical to develop.

More occupied space creates greater demand for locating in the area, which in turn drives up land prices, making increasingly difficult development parcels (i.e. more and more difficult overbuilding) feasible. This is the long-term future of the yards.

These things certainly feed off of one another, but I suppose my view is that the SY's features a lot of open space around 30th street station...a lot of buildable land that doesn't require the incredibly expensive capping process. And if their most eager prediction is to take 20 years to build the entire thing out, we have at least 20 years (most likely much more) until the "cheaper land" is occupied and forces the expensive capping process if there is a desire/need to expand after everything else is built.

When you see these two plans...it just seems to me as an argument to never cap if we have enough room for 8 skyscrapers right next door that doesn't require so much capital.

So perhaps a better statement is that SY is an argument against capping the rail yards in today's economic climate...and realistically, in my view...not until the next several decades. If it will take 20 years to make SY viable...that's probably 30 years if you want to be realistic. Then, for a similar density of buildings that would go above the cap, that would need another 20-30 years for it to be economically viable....ie....capping is likely not to be a viable project until 2056 or 2086....ie... in a future Philadelphia that likely doesn't resemble anything of today.

Regardless, we must all agree that capping isn't realistically going to happen until all buildable land in close proximity is build upon.

Yes. In fact, the district plan that includes the yards (ongoing, but partially public) says exactly that.

That's been my view, all things being equal. Sometimes all things are not equal. There may be factors that push an earlier start to developing the actual rail yards (despite apparently higher development costs compared to the huge amount of surrounding "fallow" land). Amtrak is not Drexel and can make its own deals, after all.

Not sure if anyone posted these but thee came in an email reminder for the Open House for the rail yards (capping) open house this Wed.

Updated plan summery
http://static1.squarespace.com/stati....03_PUBLIC.pdf


Summary of initial feedback
http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...inal_Small.pdf

^I'm (unfortunately) very unfamiliar with Philadelphia. Where is Schuylkill Yards in relation to those plans?