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-   -   SAN ANTONIO │ San Pedro Creek │ 2-Mile Redevelopment │ Under Construction (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=205660)

sirkingwilliam May 21, 2013 4:42 AM

SAN ANTONIO │ San Pedro Creek │ 2-Mile Redevelopment │ Under Construction
 
:cheers:


Quote:

With redevelopment of the San Antonio River nearing completion, Bexar County is turning its attention to San Pedro Creek.

Commissioners Court on Tuesday plans to dramatically reverse the fortunes of San Pedro Creek . Backed by a court majority, County Judge Nelson Wolff will propose a $175 million ecosystem restoration on a 1.5 mile segment of the 3 mile creek.

The court will seek engineering designs now that a $760,000 study has concluded the project is challenging yet doable. Officials want the creek to be a linear urban park, retaining its flood-control role while providing new recreational amenities like those on the river's Museum Reach and Mission Reach.

Right-of-way would have to be acquired and myriad stakeholders consulted, but construction could start in 2016. By 2018, the creek would have walkways, landscaping and perhaps a performance venue in the stretch between Fox Tech High and South Alamo Street.

Smith said the county has $125 million available to launch the effort.



sirkingwilliam May 21, 2013 4:45 AM

delete

sirkingwilliam May 21, 2013 5:16 AM

Rendering of the proposed new linear park planned for downtown.

http://i.imgur.com/rzdDdgE.jpg

Larger version
http://i.imgur.com/mByheY4.png

sirkingwilliam May 21, 2013 5:22 AM

Credit: hannah_banana

SAN ANTONIO FEDERAL COURTHOUSE


Quote:

San Antonio, TX

A GSA Design Excellence project, the new San Antonio Courthouse is designed to generate civic pride and a dignified presence that captures the cultural spirit of San Antonio through its use of local vernacular and natural materials.

The project replaces an outdated courthouse with a modern, 110,000-square-foot state of the art facility. A key element of our design focuses on interior courtyard and connection to the adjacent San Pedro Creek. The $85 million project is currently in design development and slated for completion in 2016.


sirkingwilliam May 21, 2013 5:57 AM

Here's a map I made detailing both the urban segment of the Riverwalk (blue) and the 1.5 mile segment of the San Pedro Creek (red) that will become a linear park.

http://i.imgur.com/l33ooVu.jpg

sirkingwilliam May 21, 2013 6:05 AM

http://i.imgur.com/nKQ9juo.jpg

Keep-SA-Lame May 21, 2013 1:34 PM

Woah, $175 million?! Don't get me wrong, I love the renderings and have been dying for them to do something with San Pedro Creek(it's about damn time they've done something), but that is a lot of money for 1.5 miles of park.

kornbread May 21, 2013 3:27 PM

I would imagine a decent chunk of that cost will go towards aquiring right of way and reconstruction around roads.

cole world11 May 21, 2013 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 6135679)
Woah, $175 million?! Don't get me wrong, I love the renderings and have been dying for them to do something with San Pedro Creek(it's about damn time they've done something), but that is a lot of money for 1.5 miles of park.

It is but might as well do it right I suppose :tup:

Keep-SA-Lame May 21, 2013 7:16 PM

Downtown Blog posted a bunch of new images:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/downtow...om-river-walk/

WorldTexas May 21, 2013 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cole world11 (Post 6135888)
It is but might as well do it right I suppose :tup:

This is just what the west end of downtown needs. Go big or go home! :cheers:

jaga185 May 21, 2013 7:59 PM

I agree that this is what the west end of downtown needs. It's kind of dreary. Maybe there could be a way to connect the San Pedro creek to the Riverwalk in a green way. I'm trying to look for a good route for it happen, but it's kind of hard.

electricron May 21, 2013 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaga185 (Post 6136181)
I agree that this is what the west end of downtown needs. It's kind of dreary. Maybe there could be a way to connect the San Pedro creek to the Riverwalk in a green way. I'm trying to look for a good route for it happen, but it's kind of hard.

Much of the way, they're only 4 short blocks apart. Just wide sidewalks shaded with awnings on several streets should be sufficient - plus the future streetcar line could provide a unique connection. I don't think the connections have to be green.

sirkingwilliam May 22, 2013 12:41 AM

I made an imgur album with all the images for this thing. :tup:

http://imgur.com/a/UFkQP

miaht82 May 22, 2013 1:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 6136221)
Much of the way, they're only 4 short blocks apart. Just wide sidewalks shaded with awnings on several streets should be sufficient - plus the future streetcar line could provide a unique connection. I don't think the connections have to be green.

To piggyback off of this idea...
The best place (with least amount of work to do) would be along Houston St.; wide sidewalk exist between Camaron and Flores, "park" is in front of Frost, and as long as sidewalks are kept wide and tree-lined in front of the Rand Bldg., it would only be a short half-block to get to the River.

Second would be Nueva (isn't that where SC route is planned for?).
The space behind the new Justice Center and County Courthouse has wide sidewalks and are both tree-filled now; it would just require improvement to the back side of the City Towers (once built) and acquiring some land before or after the River to give access on the North side of Nueva.

Since SP Creek eventually dumps into the SA River off Probandt and Mitchell, I would say just keep the ecosystem restoration and some trails going all the way South (that might be the long term plan), and join the two up. Give the people a riverside running/biking track.

As for the price?
Considering SP Creek is underground from Cesar Chavez to just South of El Paso St., that's quite a bit of land (from hotels) to be purchased in that small stretch.

Looks good.

El Santo May 22, 2013 1:37 PM

A soccer stadium at the old Fox Tech fields would be an awesome addition to DT SA.

Spoiler May 22, 2013 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miaht82 (Post 6136645)
Considering SP Creek is underground from Cesar Chavez to just South of El Paso St., that's quite a bit of land (from hotels) to be purchased in that small stretch.

Plans don't include uncovering that stretch of creek, just building a shaded walkway.

sirkingwilliam May 22, 2013 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 6137482)
Plans don't include uncovering that stretch of creek, just building a shaded walkway.

Look again, there are two options for that segment.

Spoiler May 22, 2013 8:24 PM

Oops, my bad!

Can someone who is better at reading these plans tell me if the path goes below the streets or not? To me, it looks like the answer is no.

miaht82 May 22, 2013 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 6137636)
Oops, my bad!

Can someone who is better at reading these plans tell me if the path goes below the streets or not? To me, it looks like the answer is no.

There are a couple of options where it would be below street level. One has a more "natural" look (like the Mission Reach), and the other is a mix (Museum Reach). And like you pointed out in one of the options, there is also the option in that stretch to not expose the creek, just for a walkway to connect and to be spruced up.

Here you can see that it goes below Commerce:

http://i.imgur.com/spePrQih.jpg

I'm assuming if a path below street level were the case, that it would be able to be closed if overflow were to come up. It already appears that the flow would have to be adjusted seeing as how it is currently a crik or a "leak", not so much a creek.

nixcity May 22, 2013 10:09 PM

Looks amazing!!! I hope at least something like this comes to fruition.

sirkingwilliam May 23, 2013 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 6137636)
Oops, my bad!

Can someone who is better at reading these plans tell me if the path goes below the streets or not? To me, it looks like the answer is no.

Here is an album with all the conceptual renderings.

http://imgur.com/a/UFkQP

The entire project will be below street level. There is on root ion for one section that would keep the creek covered but I doubt that option is the one that happens. That's a "in case they can't but the right of way" option.

Sigaven May 24, 2013 5:34 AM

Those rendering sure look beautiful, but I wonder if it would ever end up looking like anything close to that when it's completed.

sirkingwilliam May 24, 2013 7:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigaven (Post 6139734)
Those rendering sure look beautiful, but I wonder if it would ever end up looking like anything close to that when it's completed.

It could end up looking better. Those renderings are conceptual not the final look. The county actually just voted to aprrove the project annoys now in the final design stage.

cole world11 May 24, 2013 4:29 PM

I'm a little confused. Is this for sure going to be built or does the city (city council?) vote on this?

sirkingwilliam May 24, 2013 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cole world11 (Post 6140166)
I'm a little confused. Is this for sure going to be built or does the city (city council?) vote on this?

This is a county project and they have alreadt voted approval. It's happening. The final design is now being worked on.

cole world11 May 24, 2013 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 6140174)
This is a county project and they have alreadt voted approval. It's happening. The final design is now being worked on.

Oh that's great! thanks for the fast reply Sir :tup:

sirkingwilliam Aug 9, 2014 5:41 PM

San Antonio │ San Pedro Creek │ 2-Mile Redevelopment │ Design Phase
 

Quote:

The first public meeting for the Bexar County-driven, $175 million San Pedro Creek improvement is scheduled for 9 a.m.-noon Aug. 23 (Saturday) at Christopher Columbus Italian Society, 201 Piazza Italia. Inspired by the River Walk, the project revives the former creek — these days, it’s more of a ditch — into a multi-character linear urban park while removing roughly 42 acres from the flood zone along the stretch.

The project — county funded, but executed by the San Antonio River Authority — runs from the tunnel inlet behind Fox Tech High School south to the confluence of the West Side creeks next to Interstate 35.

Of the $175 million, county leaders have said, $125 million will be financed via certificates of obligation, a form of debt the county incurs. The $50 million difference will come from a combination of public and private rights-of-way donations (land along the creek’s banks seen as crucial to widening the tributary), and city and private sector contributions.

The projects design began in March, and is expected to take two years to complete, SARA projects and planner supervisor Rudy Farias said. Construction is expected for completion by the end of 2018.

sirkingwilliam Aug 26, 2014 6:01 AM


Quote:

More than 120 creative spirits and engaged citizens gathered Saturday morning to help design the $175 million redevelopment of San Pedro Creek through downtown San Antonio.

It was the first of many public workshops planned for the project, which will transform a long-ignored ditch (see video below) into a linear urban park while advancing flood mitigation, revitalizing ecology, and sparking cultural and economic development along its path.

Quote:

Armed with coffee and refreshments, “energized” is a good description of the conversations participants were having. The din of the design process often caused citizens to lean across tables to better hear ideas, concerns, and questions – a good problem to have at a public planning meeting, especially on a Saturday at 9 a.m..

Think of the Mission and Museum Reaches of the San Antonio River, but shorter and quite narrow in some sections. The two-mile stretch of San Pedro Creek is often crowded by commercial buildings, flanked by parking lots, and hidden from pedestrian and vehicle view. Project leaders expect to draw commercial and housing investments to the area, similar to investments now being made on the Mission and Museum Reaches.

“Although this project is downtown, it’s more about connecting the community. Connecting our Westside and our Southside to our downtown and vice versa,” Scott said of San Pedro Creek’s role in the larger Westside Creeks Restoration Project. “The city has invested more than $10 million in linear creekway connections.”

Quote:

To tackle the complicated terrain of the project, the creek has been divided into six segments or “character areas.” Each area has unique features and urban landscape, so divvying up the design will help engineers and architects – HDR, Inc. and Muñoz & Company, respectively – incorporate assets and address challenges for each character area.

Each table at the meeting was assigned a character area. Citizens then moved to the table that most interested them. At the Canal Principal/Main Channel table, participants focused on how to restore the narrow, paved-over sections of the creek to a more natural state. One such section is flanked by hotels and residences with little to no access to the actual creek.

“We need to take this ditch and turn it into something for people,” said Tony Cantu of the San Antonio River Oversight Committee.

He and the other planners at the table emphasized the importance of creating a multi-modal pathway that restores the ecology of the area – a place for humans, water, and wildlife. Signage and pathways to and from the creek will be a crucial part of this section. But designers will have little to work with.
http://therivardreport.com/wp-conten...ditch_sara.jpg
A section of San Pedro Creek as it exists today. Photo courtesy of SARA.

Quote:

“Maybe an elevated pathway, like High Line Park in New York?” proposed Nita Shaver. The table was excited about this idea.

“That’s a wonderful suggestion,” said Michael Guarino of Ford Powell & Carson Architects, facilitator of the table discussion.

Guarino was furiously taking down notes as the table occupants talked, laughed, and pointed out troublesome areas of the map. He was pleasantly surprised with the turnout and impressed with community feedback. His notes will be added to dozens more, notes on all the section maps will be analyzed – including the note about protecting turtles in the Canal Principal – and designers will come back in November to present the mashup of ideas to the public at another public workshop.
http://therivardreport.com/wp-conten...ering_sara.jpg
An artist’s rendering of what San Pedro Creek could become. For visualization purposes only, this is not a design. Photo courtesy of SARA.

Quote:

“The key will be making it an inviting, walkable place for people,” said Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff as he watched the workshop. “There’s a lot of congestion along the River Walk around the bend. This may alleviate that.”

Much of the design stage is scheduled to be completed by February. Scott said the goal is to schedule construction over two years, with completion by San Antonio’s 300th anniversary in 2018.

Bexar County has committed $125 million so far, Scott said. The unfunded remainder likely will be filled by various public and private investments from area businesses and downtown development initiatives. The “right-of-way” costs and complications of acquiring or using surrounding properties downtown will be one of the main hurdles.

Quote:

“Private property rights are extremely important and we don’t want to assume anything at this point, so we’re going to continue to work with property owners,” she said, adding that SARA will seek property donations. “I think that many of them see that it could be financially beneficial – obviously the value of their land and the opportunities of their land could be enhanced (by the redevelopment) but also they’re concerned about parking and access – rightfully so. We need (business and property owners) at the table.”

The San Pedro project should benefit from the successful and well-received completion of the Museum and Mission Reaches of the San Antonio River. People now understand the benefits of bringing a moribund waterway back to life, both for aesthetic reasons and as an economic development initiative.

“We have a recent example of how public investment can spur economic development. It’s not a pipe dream or something that we don’t know about,” Scott said. “And if people appreciate their waterways more, they’re going to want to protect them. They’ll become more curious about storm water, trash, flora, fauna. It’s an opportunity to change the narrative about our creeks.”

jaga185 Oct 20, 2014 6:38 PM

The only thing that has me wondering about the project is... how much water will really be flowing through San Pedro creek on a regular basis?

jaga185 Oct 20, 2014 6:41 PM

Also, in terms of connecting the Riverwalk to San Pedro, Travis seems like a good street to bury between the two. Traffic isn't really too terrible between them and it's only a one-laned two way street.

Spoiler Oct 20, 2014 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaga185 (Post 6775555)
The only thing that has me wondering about the project is... how much water will really be flowing through San Pedro creek on a regular basis?

Creek flow will be augmented, like the river. One way of doing this is with the flood control tunnels, but SAWS could just open up a pipe of treated wastewater at the northern end.

Spoiler Oct 20, 2014 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaga185 (Post 6775558)
Also, in terms of connecting the Riverwalk to San Pedro, Travis seems like a good street to bury between the two. Traffic isn't really too terrible between them and it's only a one-laned two way street.

Houston Street has nice, wide sidewalks and a lot of potential for retail development.

sirkingwilliam Apr 16, 2015 9:46 AM

$175 MILLION SAN PEDRO CREEK PROJECT RECEIVES DESIGN APPROVAL
TWO MILE CREEK REDEVELOPMENT WILL REMOVE 40 ACRES FROM FLOODPLAIN

Quote:

Bexar County Commissioners have approved nearly half of the designs for the $175 million San Pedro Creek project.

"(San Antonio) really grew up first around the creek before the river, so it has a great history," said Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff.

The transformation would take place along the creek from Fox Tech High School to Cesar Chavez. The plan calls for the construction of a new amphitheater, foot and bike paths, and other amenities for tourists and residents to take advantage of.

"You're going to see housing. You're going to see some retail, office space, and some hotels along the creek," Wolff said.

San Antonio city staff will recommend that the City Council vote in favor of donating city-owned property to the San Antonio River Authority, which is leading the design process, for the project. SARA is working with other downtown organizations and the public to further develop the project.

"This is an opportunity to infill, develop (and) create another place for all of San Antonians to enjoy and to see economic prosperity along this particular corridor in our downtown and even surrounding neighborhoods," said Centro San Antonio President and CEO Pat DiGiovanni. "This has the opportunity to really change the west end of our downtown and really be more of a locals gathering place and a revitalization area of our city."

Officials hope to have the first phase of the project complete by May 2018, just in time for the city's 300th birthday.


SAN PEDRO CREEK REDEVELOPMENT
http://i.imgur.com/xpZcNWf.jpg?1

Please watch the video to the end!
Video Link


http://i.imgur.com/pfyiSXT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UEM3MGk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L91agFn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v86yZLY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q5SqOYn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bSurZPR.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/7Ce6fyr.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/PrNgREW.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/b5b5PJH.png?1



Keep-SA-Lame Apr 16, 2015 2:04 PM

Overall very cool, this will be a huge asset for the city. But that weird tree limb arch...... it looks very Disney.

kornbread Apr 16, 2015 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 6992629)
Overall very cool, this will be a huge asset for the city. But that weird tree limb arch...... it looks very Disney.

Yeah, that was my thought as well, except I was thinking that for the whole tree of life area.

texboy Apr 16, 2015 5:44 PM

Overall a fabulous project. SA is the best kept big city secret in Texas. These kind of projects help make that case.

Sigaven Apr 21, 2015 10:02 PM

Anyone have a working video link?

Boquillas Apr 21, 2015 11:59 PM

n/m, delete post.

sirkingwilliam Apr 22, 2015 7:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigaven (Post 6999070)
Anyone have a working video link?

The link to the embedded video is still functioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjE3rTwbg0

kornbread Aug 7, 2015 3:06 PM

The San Pedro Creek Project: Getting it Right
 
http://www.therivardreport.com/the-s...ting-it-right/
7 August, 2015 at 09:00
Authors: Robert Rivard and Iris Dimmick

Quote:

Robert Hammond, the co-founder of Friends of the High Line, the catalyst for development of New York City’s celebrated High Line Park, was invited back to San Antonio, his hometown, earlier this year to speak about the celebrated linear park built on an abandoned elevated railway once slated for demolition in lower Manhattan.

While he was here, Hammond was taken on a tour of San Pedro Creek, which today exists as a concrete ditch, a largely invisible flood-control channel with few remaining signs of a living waterway. He then visited the offices of Muñoz & Co. where his tour guide, Muñoz Principal and Architect Steven Land Tillotson, showed him the preliminary design plans for the $175 million San Pedro Creek Improvements Project.

This first phase of the San Pedro Creek Improvement Project extends two miles, starting at IH-35 at the flood tunnel inlet near Fox Tech High School south to the confluence with the Alazan/Apache Creeks at IH-35 near the former Union Stockyards. Bexar County has dedicated $125 million to the $175 million-project, with the City of San Antonio contributing several million dollars in downtown creekside property, and the San Antonio River Authority managing the project.

Robert Hammond. Photo by Liz Ligon.Robert Hammond. Photo by Liz Ligon.
“I was very excited as we toured San Pedro Creek,” Hammond said. “My Dad used to take me to the San Pedro Springs. I loved it and it was a very powerful memory. The opportunity is huge to do something different than the River Walk, knitting together the neighborhoods, making it part of a greater loop that connects to the San Antonio River and the Springs. The possibilities are big.”

Then Hammond looked at the design work and had concerns, the principal one being the absence of a noted landscape architectural firm in the project. Instead, Muñoz has hired a landscape architect, Todd Brant, to work on the project full time...
It's an article about the direction of the project. The idea that it might have too much of an architectural influence as opposed to a more natural setting. I kind of of agree that it should be scaled back and have a more natural feel (in certain areas for sure with a kitsch feel [tree of life]) and link to neighborhoods. I'm not too concerned about developers concerns, they should work around a park designed for residents to enjoy.

Thoughts?

jaga185 Aug 7, 2015 4:01 PM

I like the designs. It gives it a different feel than the riverwalk. We need something different than the riverwalk downtown to remind people we are in the 21 century and not living in the past. We can't just scale back everything because it "doesn't fit".

The only thing I don't really like is the amphitheater. The little spire yes, but it looks like a marshmallow cut in half.

Sean1187 Aug 7, 2015 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaga185 (Post 7121507)
I like the designs. It gives it a different feel than the riverwalk. We need something different than the riverwalk downtown to remind people we are in the 21 century and not living in the past. We can't just scale back everything because it "doesn't fit".

The only thing I don't really like is the amphitheater. The little spire yes, but it looks like a marshmallow cut in half.

HAHA! You made me go back and take a look at the rendering of the amphitheater. It is an odd shape. Overall, looking over the images that are on page 2 of this thread, I love this project! Minus the marshmallow with a pointy stick! Perhaps a different design or scratch it and do something else like educational or interactive.

JACKinBeantown Aug 8, 2015 4:04 PM

This is a great project. I'm very happy to see San Antonio improving its inner city. Every large city seems to go through its initial prime, followed by decline then rejuvenation. SA is finally in its rejuvenation phase.

AwesomeSAView Aug 8, 2015 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaga185 (Post 7121507)
I like the designs. It gives it a different feel than the riverwalk. We need something different than the riverwalk downtown to remind people we are in the 21 century and not living in the past. We can't just scale back everything because it "doesn't fit".

The only thing I don't really like is the amphitheater. The little spire yes, but it looks like a marshmallow cut in half.



Living in the past? It is beautiful to "live in the past"! We must not forget history! I was in Quebec City in Canada last month, and the city has done a wonderful job of distinguishing between old town and new town. It is an absolutely beautiful city with a booming economy! So being that San Antonio is one of the oldest cities in the country, I think the leaders here have done extremely well for modernizing the city. A little bit of modern blended in with the old and historical! A totally modern city IMO is boring! :cheers:

JACKinBeantown Aug 9, 2015 2:04 AM

I agree. Modern is great when it fits or is in a brand new location. But when you have great old buildings and a lot of them in a centralized area, that takes precedent and the new buildings need to fit in with the old if the architects and companies paying for them want to respect the area that they want to be a part of.

Sean1187 Aug 9, 2015 4:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView (Post 7122735)
Living in the past? It is beautiful to "live in the past"! We must not forget history! I was in Quebec City in Canada last month, and the city has done a wonderful job of distinguishing between old town and new town. It is an absolutely beautiful city with a booming economy! So being that San Antonio is one of the oldest cities in the country, I think the leaders here have done extremely well for modernizing the city. A little bit of modern blended in with the old and historical! A totally modern city IMO is boring! :cheers:

I don't think Jaga is necessarily wrong. We have the missions and the river walk to remind us of the past, but this is something new and modern. It gives a different feel and provides variety.

So as I'm totally for making an historical and educational portion of the San Pedro Creek, I'm even more for a good portion of it being 21st century design and technology. Just as the river walk reminds us of the early 20th century, this is the 21st century linear park for the city core.

Restless 1 Aug 9, 2015 6:39 AM

Living in the past? It is beautiful to "live in the past"!
 
So, I guess you're giving up the smart phone for rotary dial?

Yes, there is something to paying homage to the past, but this city too frequently uses the past as a bludgeon to growth.

Back in the seventies or so, there was talk of expanding SAT so as to include major hubs, and more direct flights. Didn't happen. Now we are playing catch up.

Same thing is happening, and continues to happen, with our urban core.

This bondage to history is the main reason the San Antonio "Skycraperpage" has very few skyscrapers to discuss.

sirkingwilliam Aug 9, 2015 8:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless 1 (Post 7123064)
So, I guess you're giving up the smart phone for rotary dial?

Yes, there is something to paying homage to the past, but this city too frequently uses the past as a bludgeon to growth.

Back in the seventies or so, there was talk of expanding SAT so as to include major hubs, and more direct flights. Didn't happen. Now we are playing catch up.

Same thing is happening, and continues to happen, with our urban core.

This bondage to history is the main reason the San Antonio "Skycraperpage" has very few skyscrapers to discuss.

No, it's not. :rolleyes:

Why does this fallacious myth/claim still have life?

Is it ignorance? Laziness?

JACKinBeantown Aug 9, 2015 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7123088)
No, it's not. :rolleyes:

Why does this fallacious myth/claim still have life?

Is it ignorance? Laziness?

Please provide the answer/truth.


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