Wow, Madrid and Barcelona had crazy growth before the economic collapse. I had no idea it was that big an increase.
With their low birthrates, Spain must have been taking in an amazingly huge number of immigrants in a short time period. |
At the 1991 census, there were only 845,977 foreign-born people living in Spain. At the 2001 census, the number of foreign-born people had already reached 2,172,201, and by the 2011 census there were 6,307,277 foreign-born people living in Spain.
Meanwhile, the Spanish-born population of Spain, which was 38,026,291 at the 1991 census, rose to 38,675,170 people at the 2001 census, and 40,508,639 people at the 2011 census. Note that the Spanish-born population includes the children of immigrants born on Spanish soil, so it's quite likely that the Spanish-born population born of Spanish parents remained stagnant between 1991 and 2011. In terms of percentages, 2.2% of the population of Spain were foreign-born in 1991, a figure which rose to 5.3% in 2001, and 13.5% in 2011. The number of foreign-born people in Spain is now decreasing due to the crisis. The Spanish statistical office estimates that on Jan. 1, 2013, there were 6,157,730 foreign-born people living in Spain, down from 6,307,277 at the Nov. 1, 2011 census. The number of Spanish-born people has gone from 40,508,639 people at the Nov. 1, 2011 census to 40,546,584 on Jan. 1, 2013. The percentage of foreign-born people went from 13.5% at the Nov. 1, 2011 census to 13.2% on Jan. 1, 2013. |
A comparison of foreign-born people in Spain and Metropolitan France since the beginning of the 1980s. Metropolitan France is the European part of France. I include the people born in Overseas France and living in Metropolitan France as "foreign-born".
Metropolitan France: - 1981 census: 6,028,948 people born outside of Metropolitan France (11.1% of Metropolitan France's population) - 1990 census: 6,224,160 (11.0% of Metropolitan France's population) - 1999 census: 6,221,404 (10.6% of Metropolitan France's population) - 2009 census: 7,485,807 (12.0% of Metropolitan France's population) Spain: - 1981 census: 647,856 people born outside of Spain (1.7% of Spain's population) - 1991 census: 845,977 (2.2% of Spain's population) - 2001 census: 2,172,201 (5.3% of Spain's population) - 2011 census: 6,307,277 (13.5% of Spain's population) |
France foreign and overseas born population was pretty much stagnant during those three last decades with even a decrease in the 1990's due to the death of old immigrants, a low migration rate and an undercount in the 1999 census.
We had a moderate growth in the 2000's but it is lower than the growth that Spain, Italy or UK have seen. We are not in the case of Spain or Italy which went from very few immigrants to a big immigrant population. |
Spain (foreign born top 30) 2011
1 Marruecos (Morocco): 772,126 2 Rumanía (Romania): 750,901 3 Ecuador: 474,075 4 Colombia: 374,642 5 Reino Unido (UK): 317,950 6 Argentina: 272,198 7 Alemania (Germany): 209,982 8 Francia: 209,144 9 Perú: 198,547 10 Bolivia: 190,997 11 China: 164,368 12 Venezuela: 155,153 13 República Dominicana: 146,613 14 Bulgaria: 144,571 15 Portugal: 128,639 16 Brasil: 120,436 17 Cuba: 116,852 18 Italia: 93,961 19 Ucrania (Ukraine): 81,304 20 Uruguay: 80,571 21 Paraguay: 79,850 22 Polonia (Poland): 71,524 23 Pakistán: 68,279 24 Rusia (Russia): 66,478 25 Suiza (Switzerland): 63,191 26 Chile: 62,626 27 Argelia (Algeria): 59,201 28 Senegal: 55,748 29 México: 47,609 30 Países Bajos (Netherlands): 47,004 Italy (foreign citizenship) 2011 1 Romania: 968,576 2 Albania: 482,627 3 Morocco: 452,424 4 China: 209,934 5 Ukraine: 200,730 6 Philippines: 134,154 7 Moldova: 130,948 8 India: 121,036 9 Poland: 109,018 10 Tunisia: 106,291 11 Peru: 98,603 12 Ecuador: 91,625 13 Egypt: 90,365 14 Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, the: 89,900 15 Bangladesh: 82,451 16 Sri Lanka: 81,094 17 Senegal: 80,989 18 Pakistan: 75,720 19 Nigeria: 53,613 20 Serbia: 52,954 21 Bulgaria: 51,134 22 Ghana: 46,890 23 Brazil: 46,690 24 Germany: 42,531 25 France: 33,400 26 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 31,972 27 Russia: 30,504 28 United Kingdom: 29,560 29 Algeria: 25,935 30 Dominican Republic: 24,529 France (France métropolitaine) 2009 1 Algeria: 721,274 2 Morocco: 663,502 3 Portugal: 584,334 4 Italy: 310,709 5 Spain: 251,870 6 Turkey: 242,229 7 Tunisia: 236,242 8 United Kingdom: 151,052 9 Germany: 126,429 10 Belgium: 107,761 11 Poland: 92,012 12 China: 82,935 13 Senegal: 77,973 14 Vietnam: 74,704 15 Serbia: 68,002 16 Côte d'Ivoire: 62,041 17 Cameroon: 61,676 18 Mali: 60,043 19 Romania: 59,567 20 Congo, Democratic Repbulic of (Zaïre): 55,607 21 Switzerland: 54,687 22 Congo: 54,293 23 Cambodia: 52,522 24 Russia: 45,660 25 Madagascar: 45,085 26 Haïti: 37,517 27 Sri Lanka: 36,540 28 Netherlands: 36,053 29 United States of America: 35,813 30 Lebanon: 35,711 Germany 2010 1 Turkey: 1,629,480 2 Italy: 517,546 3 Poland: 419,435 4 Greece: 276,685 5 Croatia: 220,199 6 Russian Federation: 191,270 7 Serbia ¹ (with or without Kosovo): 179,048 8 Austria: 175,244 9 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 152,444 10 Netherlands: 136,274 11 Romania: 126,536 12 Ukraine: 124,293 13 Portugal: 113,208 14 Kosovo ¹: 108,797 15 France: 108,675 16 Spain: 105,401 17 United States of America: 97,732 18 United Kingdom: 96,143 19 Former Serbia and Montenegro ¹: 93,013 20 Vietnam: 84,301 21 China: 81,331 22 Iraq: 81,272 23 Bulgaria: 74,869 24 Hungary: 68,892 25 Macedonia: 65,998 26 Morocco: 63,570 27 Thailand: 56,153 28 Iran: 51,885 29 Afghanistan: 51,305 30 Kazakhstan: 51,007 Netherlands (foreign background) 2012 1 Turkey: 197,107 2 Suriname: 183,752 3 Morocco: 168,214 4 Indonesia: 114,558 5 Germany: 108,290 6 Netherlands Antilles (old): 79,673 7 Poland: 77,642 8 Yugoslavia (old): 50,559 9 United Kingdom: 43,918 10 China: 41,533 11 Iraq: 40,710 12 Belgium: 38,876 13 Soviet Union (old): 37,126 14 Afghanistan: 32,579 15 Iran: 27,012 16 Somalia: 24,638 17 United States of America: 21,042 18 Italy: 20,750 19 France: 20,071 20 Spain: 19,957 21 Bulgaria: 17,464 22 India: 16,500 23 Portugal: 14,868 24 Ghana: 13,550 25 Romania: 12,989 26 Vietnam: 12,247 27 Thailand: 12,188 28 Egypt: 12,031 29 Brazil: 11,929 30 Cape Verde: 11,754 Sweden 2011 1 Finland: 166,723 2 Iraq: 125,499 3 Poland: 72,865 4 Yugoslavia, Federal Republic of: 70,050 5 Iran (Islamic Republic of): 63,828 6 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 56,290 7 Germany: 48,442 8 Denmark: 44,951 9 Turkey: 43,909 10 Norway: 43,058 11 Somalia: 40,165 12 Thailand: 33,613 13 Chile: 28,385 14 China (excluding Hong Kong): 25,657 15 Lebanon: 24,394 16 Syrian Arab Republic: 22,357 17 United Kingdom: 21,883 18 Romania: 21,016 19 India: 18,622 20 United States of America: 17,755 21 Afghanistan: 17,489 22 Russian Federation: 16,412 23 Hungary: 15,441 24 Viet Nam: 15,175 25 Ethiopia: 14,314 26 Greece: 12,062 27 Eritrea: 11,994 28 Colombia: 10,823 29 Pakistan: 10,539 30 Korea, Republic of Korea: 10,499 Switzerland 2011 1 Germany: 329,971 2 Italy: 241,022 3 Portugal: 187,409 4 France: 138,411 5 Turkey: 76,906 6 Kosovo: 59,473 7 Austria: 59,249 8 Serbia: 59,189 9 Spain: 57,229 10 Macedonia: 53,527 11 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 52,379 12 UK: 43,747 13 United States: 34,906 14 Brazil: 33,382 15 Sri Lanka: 29,649 16 Poland: 24,033 17 Netherlands: 22,058 18 Croatia: 19,814 19 Thailand: 18,197 20 Russia: 17,509 21 India: 17,370 22 Hungary: 15,950 23 Morocco: 15,926 24 China: 15,392 25 Belgium: 14,787 26 Romania: 13,518 27 Czech Republic: 12,957 28 Philippines: 12,214 29 Slovakia: 11,353 30 Canada: 11,261 England & Wales 2011 1 India: 694,148 2 Poland: 579,121 3 Pakistan: 482,137 4 Germany: 273,564 5 Bangladesh: 211,500 6 Nigeria: 191,183 7 South Africa: 191,023 8 United States: 177,185 9 Jamaica: 160,095 10 China: 152,498 11 Kenya: 137,492 12 Italy: 134,619 13 France: 129,804 14 Sri Lanka: 127,242 15 Philippines: 122,625 16 Zimbabwe: 118,348 17 Australia: 116,287 18 Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region of China): 102,241 19 Somalia: 101,370 20 Lithuania: 97,083 21 Ghana: 93,846 22 Turkey: 91,115 23 Portugal (including Madeira and the Azores): 88,161 24 Iran: 81,680 25 Romania: 79,687 26 Spain (including Canary Islands): 79,184 27 Iraq: 72,974 28 Canada: 68,631 29 Malaysia: 64,513 30 Afghanistan: 62,723 Source (Germany): Statistisches Bundesamt, Wiesbaden Source: (France): National Institute for Demographic Studies (INED) Source (Italy): Istat Source: Statistics Netherlands, 2012 Source: Statistics Sweden Source: Swiss Federal Statistical Office Source (England & Wales): Office for National Statistics Source (Spain): Instituto Nacional de Estadística |
Quote:
It's not foreign background in any case because there were: 378,000 people of Indonesian 377,000 people of German 393,000 people of Turkish 363,000 people of Moroccan 347,000 people of Surinamese 144,000 people of Antillean 115,000 people of Belgian 101,000 people of Polish (officially at least) background in January 2012 in the NL. The rest are also way too low. http://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/A1B76...2012b61pub.pdf If you show me where you got those figures (link) perhaps I can figure out what they represent. :) It's probably foreign born. |
^I should have specified because it was for first generation & my source is Statistics Netherlands.
|
Netherlands 2013 first generation)
1 Turkey: 196203 2 Suriname: 182342 3 Morocco: 168117 4 Indonesia: 112058 5 Germany: 107384 6 Poland: 85928 7 Netherlands Antilles (old): 79122 8 Yugoslavia (old): 50267 9 United Kingdom: 44171 10 China: 43487 11 Iraq: 40509 12 Belgium: 39750 13 Soviet Union (old): 38167 14 Afghanistan: 32820 15 Iran: 27754 16 Somalia: 24597 17 Italy: 21652 18 United States of America: 21565 19 Spain: 21230 20 France: 20124 21 Bulgaria: 18139 22 India: 17640 23 Portugal: 15486 24 Ghana: 13626 25 Romania: 13547 26 Thailand: 12538 27 Brazil: 12361 28 Vietnam: 12335 29 Egypt: 12209 30 Greece: 12084 |
It's foreign born.
Here's a table with both foreign background 21.1% (meaning one or both parent born outside the Netherlands) and foreign born 10.7% (excluding born abroad from two Dutch parents). First column is foreign background, second is foreign born. Most countries should be easy to figure out, if translation is needed, let me know... January 1st 2013 http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publi...STB=G1,G4&VW=T EDIT- :) You're good at figuring it out yourself and also found 2013 I see! :tup: |
@ Urbanguy: you forgot the people from Overseas France living in Metropolitan France. For example you included 79,122 people from the Netherlands Antilles living in the Netherlands, but you didn't include the 236,197 people from the French West Indies living in Metropolitan France. Your figures also include only immigrants but exclude foreign-born people who are not immigrants (Pieds-Noirs and many other French citizens born in the former French colonies, protectorates, and other countries).
So if I include all these people, we get this: France (France métropolitaine) 2009: 1 Pieds-Noirs and other French citizens at birth born in former colonies, protectorates, and foreign countries: 1,744,378 (Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, Marguerite Duras, Yves Saint Laurent, Edouard Balladur, Ségolène Royal, Dominique de Villepin, etc.) 2 Algeria: 721,274 3 Morocco: 663,502 4 Portugal: 584,334 5 Italy: 310,709 6 Spain: 251,870 7 Turkey: 242,229 8 Tunisia: 236,242 9 United Kingdom: 151,052 10 Germany: 126,429 11 Martinique: 118,551 12 Guadeloupe: 117,646 13 La Réunion: 109,927 14 Belgium: 107,761 15 Poland: 92,012 16 China: 82,935 17 Senegal: 77,973 18 Vietnam: 74,704 19 Serbia: 68,002 20 Côte d'Ivoire: 62,041 21 Cameroon: 61,676 22 Mali: 60,043 23 Romania: 59,567 24 Congo, Democratic Repbulic of (Zaïre): 55,607 25 Switzerland: 54,687 26 Congo: 54,293 27 Cambodia: 52,522 28 Russia: 45,660 29 Madagascar: 45,085 30 Haïti: 37,517 31 Sri Lanka: 36,540 32 Netherlands: 36,053 33 United States of America: 35,813 34 Lebanon: 35,711 |
@ Shiro, thanks!
@ New Brisavoine, that's because the Netherlands Statistics included Netherlands Antilles but where I found the statistics for France I didn't see any figures for people from overseas France - something I have been wondering about though. Where did you find the figures that include Martinique, Guadeloupe & La Reunion? Do you know what the numbers are for places like French Guiana, French Polynesia, etc? |
The numbers are... hard to find. :D
You basically need to download a database called Données harmonisées des recensements de la population 1968-2009, then download and install a software called Beyond 20/20, then spend about an hour trying to understand how Beyond 20/20 works, then tadam, a trove of multidimensional data (I can even tell you how many people from French Guiana who had a university degree lived in Burgundy in 1990 if you wish, and all sorts of crazy other multi-dimensional things :cool:). To answer your questions, in 2009 there were 25,425 people born in French Guiana who lived in Metropolitan France (48.2% in the Paris Region, and 51.8% in the French provinces). At the same census, there were 26,492 people born in the French Pacific territories who lived in Metropolitan France (the database does not distinguish between New Caledonia, French Polynesia, and Wallis and Futuna). 18.5% of these natives of the French Pacific lived in the Paris Region, 14.9% lived in Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur (especially in Var and Bouches-du-Rhône), and 66.6% in the other French provinces. People born in Mayotte, St Martin, St Barth, and St Pierre and Miquelon (a category grouped together) numbered 16,865 in Metropolitan France in 2009. Oh, and if you wonder, at the 1990 census there were 20 natives of French Guiana holding a university degree who lived in Burgundy. A number which rose to 46 at the 2009 census. :P |
Quote:
|
Here are some interesting data for an idea of cross-exchanges between Metropolitan France and Overseas France. All figures are from the Jan. 2009 census, except otherwise indicated. "Natives" means "born in".
Réunion: - 109,928 natives of Réunion live in Metropolitan France - 84,477 natives of Metropolitan France live in Réunion Guadeloupe: - 117,645 natives of Guadeloupe live in Metropolitan France - 42,465 natives of Metropolitan France live in Guadeloupe Martinique: - 118,551 natives of Martinique live in Metropolitan France - 39,660 natives of Metropolitan France live in Martinique French Guiana: - 25,427 natives of French Guiana live in Metropolitan France - 20,887 natives of Metropolitan France live in French Guiana French Pacific: - 26,490 natives of the French Pacific territories live in Metropolitan France - 35,885 natives of Metropolitan France live in New Caledonia (as of Aug. 2009) - 24,265 natives of Metropolitan France live in French Polynesia (as of Aug. 2007) - 809 natives of Metropolitan France live in Wallis and Futuna (as of July 2008) Mayotte, St Martin, St Barth, St Pierre and Miquelon: - 16,865 natives of Mayotte, St Martin, St Barth, St Pierre and Miquelon live in Metropolitan France - 8,875 natives of Metropolitan France live in Mayotte (as of Aug. 2007) - 5,490 natives of Metropolitan France live in St Martin (as of March 1999) - 2,864 natives of Metropolitan France live in St Barth (as of March 1999) - 1,017 natives of Metropolitan France live in St Pierre and Miquelon (as of March 1999) In total, 414,906 natives of Overseas France lived in Metropolitan France in 2009, whereas approx. 270,000 natives of Metropolitan France lived in Overseas France. |
The natives of Metropolitan France made up 20.2% of the population in the Nouméa urban area in Aug. 2009, and 12.8% of the population in the Papeete urban area in Aug. 2007. We don't have figures at the municipal level for the overseas departments unfortunately (in Réunion the Metropolitan Frenchmen tend to cluster in St Denis, the administrative capital, and around St Gilles where the main beaches of Réunion are located, but we have no data).
|
Quote:
|
^^That's the population growth in the City of Paris, which is only the most central area in the Paris metro area. The City of Paris is only one and a half time the size of Manhattan. What's called "London", on the other hand, is a big metropolitan region in fact officially called "Greater London" which contains not only Central London (comparable in size to the City of Paris) but also the inner and outer suburbs of London.
|
Quote:
|
The French statistical office has published the detailed results of the 2010 French census by countries and territories of birth. Here are the results for the Paris Region (Île-de-France).
In Jan. 2010, 23.0% of the people living in the Paris Region were born outside of Metropolitan France (the European part of France), up from 22.8% in Jan. 2009. Here below are the immigrant and overseas communities in the Paris Region that grew and shrunk the most in 2009. We can calculate this based on the data just released. Next year we'll be able to calculate the population growth of the immigrants in 2010. In Nov. 2015, we'll be able to calculate the population growth of the immigrants in 2011. It's nearly 4 years late each time (due to the new French census method), but at least it's updated every year (unlike decennial censuses which are updated only every 10 years). Immigrant and overseas communities in Metropolitan France can only grow due to new arrivals from abroad (children of immigrants born on French soil are not immigrants). They can shrink either due to deaths in France (ancient immigrant communities) or departures from Metropolitan France. For the relative growth, note that only the 47 largest immigrant and overseas communities are included (so if the Nepalese grew from 200 to 300 in 2009, their +50% growth won't be shown here). Absolute growth in 2009, immigrant and overseas communities in the Paris Region: - from Romania: +3,178 people (essentially Roma Gypsies) - China: +2,904 - Algeria: +2,839 - Congo-Kinshasa: +2,138 - Tunisia: +2,015 - Côte d'Ivoire: +1,625 - Sri Lanka: +1,424 - Turkey: +1,239 - Cameroon: +1,099 - Morocco: +966 - Mali: +929 - Haiti: +913 - Guadeloupe: +906 - India: +902 - Russia: +878 ... ... ... - Mauritius: -139 - Belgium: -169 - Switzerland: -270 - Serbia: -289 - Lebanon: -311 - Vietnam: -432 - Germany: -868 - Portugal: -935 - Italy: -999 - Spain: -1,008 Relative growth in 2009, immigrant and overseas communities in the Paris Region: - from Romania: +11.2% - Russia: +6.4% - Brazil: +6.1% - Congo-Kinshasa: +5.7% - China: +5.2% - Comoros: +4.9% - Sri Lanka: +4.5% - Canada: +4.4% - India: +4.1% - Mauritania: +3.9% - Côte d'Ivoire: +3.8% - French Pacific territories: +3.5% - Cameroon: +3.2% - French Guiana: +3.0% - Haiti: +3.0% ... ... ALL IMMIGRANT & OVERSEAS COMMUNITIES: +1.24% ... ... ALL RESIDENTS OF PARIS REGION: +0.51% ... ... NATIVES OF METROPOLITAN FRANCE: +0.29% ... ... - Mauritius: -0.7% - Angola: -1.0% - Serbia: -1.0% - Belgium: -1.1% - Vietnam: -1.2% - Lebanon: -1.5% - Italy: -1.8% - Spain: -2.1% - Germany: -3.5% - Switzerland: -4.4% At the current rate, the immigrants from Congo-Kinshasa should become the largest sub-Saharan immigrant community in the Paris Region by 2019 (historically this has been the Malians). |
Geez, are there any Romanians left in Romania?
I go to Italy, and it seems every other person is Romanian. Austria seems not that different. Even in the U.S., there seems to be many Romanian migrants. |
A few data comparing the overseas communities in Paris and London. Number of immigrants and overseas people in the Paris metro area (the Paris Region here), and number of foreign born people in the London metro area (London LUZ, which is Greater London + 42 districts around it).
London figures are from the 2011 census (March 2011). For Paris, I have used the Jan. 2010 census as the base, and applied the 2009 growth rate to get the figures as of March 2011, for a better comparison with London. Note that the London figures are "foreign-born", i.e. they include children of British people born abroad (for example children of British soldiers born in Germany, British people from Zimbabwe and South Africa, children of British expats born abroad like in Hong Kong), whereas French figures include only the immigrants, so the British figures here are always statistically swollen compared to the French figures (for example children of British expats born in France and now living in London are included in the 77,209 figure below, whereas children of French expats born in the UK and now living in Paris are not included in the 19,649 figure). People from each other's country: - London metro area: 77,209 people born in France live there - Paris metro area: 19,649 British immigrants and expats live there People from Italy: - London metro area: 75,320 people born in Italy live there - Paris metro area: 54,640 Italian immigrants live there (for an example of the statistical bias that I've indicated, ca. 4,000 non-immigrant people born in Italy live in the Paris Region, but they are not included here) People from Portugal: - London metro area: 48,175 - Paris metro area: 240,765 People from Spain: - London metro area: 43,150 - Paris metro area: 45,549 People from Poland: - London metro area: 201,900 - Paris metro area: 40,078 People from Romania: - London metro area: 51,220 - Paris metro area: 35,941 People from Turkey: - London metro area: 65,092 - Paris metro area: 69,756 People from North Africa (incl. Egypt): - London metro area: 60,386 - Paris metro area: 633,571 People from sub-Saharan Africa: - London metro area: 678,070 - Paris metro area: 438,418 People from sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, and Réunion): - London metro area: 553,639 - Paris metro area: 406,952 (the ca. 45,000 French people born in sub-Saharan Africa, like Ségolène Royal and all the children of colonial administrators and settlers, are NOT included here, as explained in the introduction, whereas this category of people is included in the British figure, White settlers from Kenya for example) People from mainland China: - London metro area: 48,093 - Paris metro area: 62,128 People from Hong Kong: - London metro area: 36,379 - Paris metro area: a few hundred People from South East Asia (excluding the Philippines): - London metro area: 88,366 - Paris metro area: 115,421 People from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka: - London metro area: 676,313 - Paris metro area: 75,284 People from the USA: - London metro area: 80,582 (this figure includes British people born in the USA, as explained in the introduction) - Paris metro area: 18,252 (this figure does NOT include French people born in the USA) People from the Caribbean: - London metro area: 155,914 - Paris metro area: 193,226 People from continental Latin America (including the Guianas and Belize): - London metro area: 107,531 - Paris metro area: 68,010 People from Oceania: - London metro area: 101,997 - Paris metro area: 7,574 |
I'm adding the Madrid metro area (provinces of Madrid, Toledo, and Guadalajara) and the Barcelona metro area (province of Barcelona). Figures from the 2011 Spanish census.
Note that the Madrid and Barcelona figures refer to foreign-born people, like the London figures. Only the Paris figures refer strictly to immigrants (and overseas people), and therefore exclude French people born abroad as explained in the previous post. People from each other's country: - London metro area: 77,209 people born in France and 43,150 people born in Spain live there - Paris metro area: 19,649 British immigrants and 45,549 Spanish immigrants live there - Madrid metro area: 27,620 people born in France and 12,240 people born in the UK live there - Barcelona metro area: 30,004 people born in France and 11,571 people born in the UK live there People from Italy: - London metro area: 75,320 people born in Italy live there - Paris metro area: 54,640 Italian immigrants live there (for an example of the statistical bias that I've indicated, ca. 4,000 non-immigrant people born in Italy live in the Paris Region, but they are not included here) - Madrid metro area: 12,263 people born in Italy live there - Barcelona metro area: 19,859 people born in Italy live there People from Portugal: - London metro area: 48,175 - Paris metro area: 240,765 - Madrid metro area: 16,056 - Barcelona metro area: 8,263 People from Poland: - London metro area: 201,900 - Paris metro area: 40,078 - Madrid metro area: 22,636 - Barcelona metro area: 7,399 People from Romania: - London metro area: 51,220 - Paris metro area: 35,941 - Madrid metro area: 225,247 - Barcelona metro area: 33,075 People from Turkey: - London metro area: 65,092 - Paris metro area: 69,756 - Madrid metro area: 807 - Barcelona metro area: 980 People from North Africa (incl. Egypt): - London metro area: 60,386 - Paris metro area: 633,571 - Madrid metro area: 112,687 - Barcelona metro area: 136,900 People from sub-Saharan Africa: - London metro area: 678,070 - Paris metro area: 438,418 - Madrid metro area: 37,227 - Barcelona metro area: 36,916 People from sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, and Réunion): - London metro area: 553,639 - Paris metro area: 406,952 (the ca. 45,000 French people born in sub-Saharan Africa, like Ségolène Royal and all the children of colonial administrators and settlers, are NOT included here, as explained in the introduction, whereas this category of people is included in the British figure, White settlers from Kenya for example) - Madrid metro area: 36,751 - Barcelona metro area: 36,516 People from mainland China: - London metro area: 48,093 - Paris metro area: 62,128 - Madrid metro area: 43,301 - Barcelona metro area: 37,071 People from Hong Kong: - London metro area: 36,379 - Paris metro area: a few hundred - Madrid metro area: a few hundred - Barcelona metro area: a few hundred People from South East Asia (excluding the Philippines): - London metro area: 88,366 - Paris metro area: 115,421 - Madrid metro area: 1,209 - Barcelona metro area: 892 People from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka: - London metro area: 676,313 - Paris metro area: 75,284 - Madrid metro area: 11,244 - Barcelona metro area: 51,350 People from the USA: - London metro area: 80,582 (this figure includes British people born in the USA, as explained in the introduction) - Paris metro area: 18,252 (this figure does NOT include French people born in the USA) - Madrid metro area: 11,572 - Barcelona metro area: 6,919 People from the Caribbean (including Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic): - London metro area: 155,914 - Paris metro area: 193,226 - Madrid metro area: 82,835 - Barcelona metro area: 41,162 People from continental Latin America (including the Guianas and Belize): - London metro area: 107,531 - Paris metro area: 68,010 - Madrid metro area: 563,648 - Barcelona metro area: 375,781 People from Oceania: - London metro area: 101,997 - Paris metro area: 7,574 - Madrid metro area: 1,566 - Barcelona metro area: 985 |
It's funny how most of these figures match the old empires of UK, France and Spain, obviously the British empire was much bigger thoe
|
:cheers:
Quote:
|
Quote:
Egypt (formerly British) is as populated as the Maghreb (formerly French), yet there are 10 times more North African immigrants in Paris than in London, and according to the data I have, even the Egyptians are slightly more numerous in Paris than in London. Portugal is also an odd case. There are 15 times more Portuguese immigrants in far-flung Paris than in nearby Madrid, despite the geographical and linguistic proximity between Madrid and Portugal. |
Despite François Hollande and his pathetic Socialist government...
Quote:
|
Quote:
Cubans, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans tend to be in the NYC area or Florida. I don't think they have a large presence anywhere in Europe. |
^Spain and Italy more than any where else in Europe. There are well over 100,000 (each) DR & Cuba-born in Spain alone.
|
Quote:
For NYC area, 2.2 million, roughly, for Miami maybe 1.1-1.2 million. Orlando, Tampa, Philadelphia, Boston, and Chicago have sizable populations too. |
In Spain at the 2011 census there were 116,852 Cuban-born and 146,613 Dominican-born people.
In Metropolitan France (the European part of France) at the 2010 census there were 3,787 Cuban immigrants and 1,295 Dominican immigrants. In Overseas France there were 292 Cuban immigrants and 1,617 Dominican immigrants at the same census. So in total, 4,079 Cuban immigrants and 2,912 Dominican immigrants in France. In England and Wales at the 2011 census there were 2,355 Cuban-born and 1,303 Dominican-born people. |
Number of births in Germany, France, the UK, and Italy from 1957 to 2012. 2012 figures are now final figures.
http://i43.tinypic.com/nxp1tt.png |
Italy has had less than 700,000 births per year since 1979. Germany has had less than 700,000 births per year since 2005. The UK had less than 700,000 births per year from 1975 to 1978, and again from 1999 to 2003. France had less than 700,000 births per year in peacetime only during the Great Depression of the 1930s.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Immigration has (generally speaking) made up for the low birthrates, though this may not be enough going forward. As to the "why" there are important cultural differences. In Germany there is still the stereotype of "Rabenmutter" which basically means that some people stigmatize mothers who work (some believe you choose either motherhood or working world, not both, because you can't do both 100%). Also, primary school ends much earlier in the day in Germany than in other countries, so there needs to be child care provisions. |
Quote:
Der Anteil der Frauen ohne Kinder steigt. Von den Frauen, die heute 40 bis 44 Jahre alt sind, sind 22 Prozent kinderlos. Vor vier Jahren waren es noch 20 Prozent. |
Héhéhéhéhéhé... The Germans will eventually end up speaking French, as a punishment for their ridiculous sexist behavior. http://webnemo.free.fr/72.gif
|
Quote:
Germany has jobs and needs immigrants desperately. |
Quote:
|
In UK , Denmark and Holland one observes a tendency of higher educated women having more children than others.
Kids are serving as status symbol. |
The results of the 2011 French census were published yesterday (France now has a census taking place every year, in January). The population of France in Jan. 2011 was slightly lower than previously estimated, because net migration in 2010 was smaller than what the French statistical office INSEE had previously guesstimated. Net migration was only +46,908 in 2010, whereas INSEE previously guesstimated that it had been +62,000.
France thus continues to have extremely small migration figures compared to its neighbours. Net migration in Metropolitan France (the European part of France): - 2007: +74,659 - 2008: +66,930 - 2009: +44,222 - 2010: +46,908 For comparison, Germany had a net migration of +127,677 in 2010, the UK had +252,000, Italy had +311,658, and even economically battered Spain had +76,026. This very low net migration figure is either due to rising emigration of young French people tired of the rigid labor market of France, or to very restrictive immigration policies (and strong anti-immigrant climate which deters would-be immigrants), or a combination of both, but it's impossible to tell exactly because France is the only large country in Europe which doesn't produce estimates of inflows and outflows of migrants and native people. Oddly, most French people are still convinced that France is submerged by a huge waves of immigrants and receives the most immigrants in Europe (:haha:). The declining net migration is not discussed by any media, and most people are unaware of it. |
Quote:
|
Italy had 312,000 immigrants? Holy crap!
Why did Italy receive so many? Economy is weak and probably one of the less welcoming EU states for newcomers. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Basically the both of you are consistently talking out of your ass almost every post you make... |
A comparison of Greater London and a territory of the same land area in Paris, based on the results of the 2011 French and British censuses.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2s01fg8.png Evolution of the population since 1811: http://i44.tinypic.com/90d944.png |
Quote:
In terms of acceptance, Italy is definitely less accepting than Northern Europe, and many immigrants would openly tell you this. Look at all the shit their first black minister is getting (fellow ministers calling her an "orangutan," for example), all the crap towards Mario Balotelli, bananas regularly thrown at black footballers, etc. I am a person of color, and I certainly feel more comfortable in the UK or Norway or Sweden than Italy, or much less Greece. |
Quote:
You're nothing like a "person of color", you're just an American, spoiled like an annoying French. Quote:
|
Mousquet, I don't understand what your message has to do with the post of Kingofthehill.
I fail to see the relationship between the Arabs invation in the Middle age and the immigration in Italy today. :???: Quote:
It is not more difficult to immigrate in Italy than in other European countries. It is quite the oposite by looking the numbers, especially when it is put in in relation to the economy. Easy immigration is one of the things that may explain the high immigration in Italy despite all the other negative factors. |
Well, the thing is the guy's plainly stating that southern Europe, that is Greece and Italy in that case, would be particularly backwards and racist, that is wrong. There are historic explanations to their current difficulties. That's what I said in my post. Bah come on, you know I have no particular problem with the contemporary Arabs. Qatar for instance is being pretty helpful to us Frenchies. They are great investors and they've got some cool cultural stuff. I'm just trying to explain the assumptive distrust of Italy to what doesn't look fully European. Yes, history's kind of a burden in that case. Damn, you can't leave Italy, that's our closest and historically most influential neighbor dispraised like that. That's just not fair.
|
^^Sinon ein Kommentar sur ma carte de Paris et Londres ?
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 6:43 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.