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-   -   Demographics of Europe (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=129298)

Nexus6 May 5, 2007 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 2815349)
As an observant Muslim, I have far more rights in the U.S. and Western Europe than in Turkey.

That is indeed true and leads to the strange fact that the Islamic parties in Turkey are keen on an EU membership in the hope to gain more religious freedoms.

NewYorkYankee May 6, 2007 8:51 PM

Since we're on the topic, how do the European people feel about the demographic decline facing native populations? I mean, I'm all for immigration, but since most EU members have a birth rate around 1.2, could we see the extinction of european people? It'd suck to have a Germany with no Germans, a Sweden with no Blondes;)

SHiRO May 6, 2007 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkYankee (Post 2818276)
but since most EU members have a birth rate around 1.2

This is not true and I don't know why this myth keeps perpetuating itself.

But sure immigration is essential. Last year supposedly "in decline" Italy added 300,000 people.

crisp444 May 6, 2007 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 2812234)
Watch the movie Volver and you might change your mind.

I've seen Volver a few times, actually, and don't really understand your point because most people in that movie are white. I lived in Spain as recently as spring 2006 (a year ago), and will be returning for a month this summer, so I'm very familiar with the country. I'm aware that lots of the cities have significant non-white populations (parts of Valencia, parts Barcelona, parts of southern and western Madrid) but on paper (and through my eyes) Spain is still 90% white or more. To where are you referring?

NewYorkYankee May 6, 2007 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiRO (Post 2818311)
This is not true and I don't know why this myth keeps perpetuating itself.

But sure immigration is essential. Last year supposedly "in decline" Italy added 300,000 people.

Re-read my post. Yeah, Europe is "growing". But "Europeans" are disappearing.


I mean, new migrants are great, but it would be a sad day for the world if native europeans were to no longer exist.....


BTW, Italy and Germany are both predicted to see their numbers plummet by 2050.

SHiRO May 7, 2007 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkYankee (Post 2818533)
Re-read my post. Yeah, Europe is "growing". But "Europeans" are disappearing.

No, you said that "most" EU member states have a birthrate of 1.2. This is not true!


Quote:

I mean, new migrants are great, but it would be a sad day for the world if native europeans were to no longer exist.....
Sigh...


Quote:

BTW, Italy and Germany are both predicted to see their numbers plummet by 2050.
Double sigh...:rolleyes:


When are we ever going to have a debate about European issues without bullshit like this popping up around here...?

SHiRO May 7, 2007 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444 (Post 2818523)
Spain is still 90% white or more.

And when are Americans going to learn that not everyone views race in such simplictic terms?

The biggest immigrant groups in Spain are Moroccans, Romanians, people from other EU states and Latin Americans --- all "white" (or partly white in case of latin Americans).

NewYorkYankee May 7, 2007 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiRO (Post 2818565)
No, you said that "most" EU member states have a birthrate of 1.2. This is not true!


Maybe I should have phrased that better, so here goes:


People of ethnically european descent (the white people, if we want to be crass about it), are seeing their replacement rates plummet to the level I stated (which is the low 1's)


Okay, so maybe the muslims/africans/asians are growing, that's all well and good. But my question is what is Europe's plan to deal with the erosion of it's native people?

crisp444 May 7, 2007 4:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiRO (Post 2818569)
And when are Americans going to learn that not everyone views race in such simplictic terms?

The biggest immigrant groups in Spain are Moroccans, Romanians, people from other EU states and Latin Americans --- all "white" (or partly white in case of latin Americans).

And when are you going to learn to respond to people in this forum without coming across as so arrogant?

If you knew anything about me you'd know that I quite often correct people's misconceptions about race and ethnicity. Why are you responding to me as if I have a simplistic way of viewing this? I have studied race/ethnicity extensively and am well-versed in the subject. I challenge you to find something wrong with my statement that Spain is 90% "white" or more. I never claimed, nor would I ever try to claim, that all of the Moroccans or Latin Americans were not "white."

Don't jump to attack people so quickly.

Nexus6 May 7, 2007 5:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkYankee (Post 2818276)
I'm all for immigration, but since most EU members have a birth rate around 1.2, could we see the extinction of european people?

Extinction will take some while but we will very soon see natives become the minority in their countries much like the native Indians in the US. Talking about Germany for instance, these number have just been reported last week:

http://www.welt.de/politik/article85...ntergrund.html

- 30% of all German children below age 5 are migrants or children of migrants
- In several German cities immigrant children are well above 60%. For instance Nuremberg (67%), Frankfurt (65%), Düsseldorf (64%) and Stuttgart (64%).

look May 7, 2007 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkYankee (Post 2818616)
Maybe I should have phrased that better, so here goes:


People of ethnically european descent (the white people, if we want to be crass about it), are seeing their replacement rates plummet to the level I stated (which is the low 1's)


Okay, so maybe the muslims/africans/asians are growing, that's all well and good. But my question is what is Europe's plan to deal with the erosion of it's native people?

What's the problem? How many of today American citizens are descendants of people who revolted against England in 1776? USA is the best example that immigration doesn't really hurts the destination country.

SHiRO May 7, 2007 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444 (Post 2819037)
And when are you going to learn to respond to people in this forum without coming across as so arrogant?

If you knew anything about me you'd know that I quite often correct people's misconceptions about race and ethnicity. Why are you responding to me as if I have a simplistic way of viewing this? I have studied race/ethnicity extensively and am well-versed in the subject. I challenge you to find something wrong with my statement that Spain is 90% "white" or more. I never claimed, nor would I ever try to claim, that all of the Moroccans or Latin Americans were not "white."

Don't jump to attack people so quickly.

Hey, don't make this about me. You are the one who insists on classifying people by race eventhough the last pages of this thread were about how people are not classified by race in Europe (except for the UK Census categories of "White British", "White Other", "Black African"and "Black Caribean).
Spain is probably 98% "white", what does that say about demographics/immigration though?

And I'm not arrogant nor did I attack you. As far as I'm concerned you are just parroting certain other people who called me that last week.
What I am is fed up with how it seemingly is impossible to have a normal debate on European issues on here.
Mention France and without failure you'll either see the words "socialist" or "riots" or both within a couple of posts. "Demographics" and "Europe" is an open invitation for some dude to show up claiming how "it's projected that Germany and Italy will have their populations plummet before 2050" (!)
Well that theory was proven wrong last year (Italy added 300,000) and we still have 43 years to go.
It's ridiculous...

I have nothing against you and I know of your connection with Spain, but why mention Spain is 90% white when that is totally besides the point?

Crawford May 7, 2007 9:30 PM

Shiro, there are many biased and/or ignorant forumers, but I think you are being a bit sensitive.

There's more than a grain of truth to both topics. Germany's population IS declining (I have no idea what's going on in Italy) and any mention of Sarkozy will lead to discusssion of his defining moment during the 2005 unrest.

Crawford May 7, 2007 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 2819964)
What's the problem? How many of today American citizens are descendants of people who revolted against England in 1776? USA is the best example that immigration doesn't really hurts the destination country.

The "issue" for me is that Germany is changing to a multicultural society, (which is completely necessary for prosperity), but I feel a loss of cultural heritage.

For me it's personal stuff, like the fact that it's getting difficult to find good German food in major cities (German food is "uncool" for German natives and immigrants generally open their own places) or that German values of tidiness, punctuality, etc. are disapperaing.

The end result is that Germany is as prosperous as ever, but feels almost indistinguishable from the U.S., the U.K., or wherever. Globalization makes all places seem a little less unique.

I'm selfishly a little happy that Southern and Eastern Europe are (so far) not as multicultural. I would hate for Naples to feel like an indistinct mix of peoples (like current Frankfurt or Rotterdam). At that point, I feel I might as well stay here in Brooklyn because everywhere else is pretty much the same.

NewYorkYankee May 7, 2007 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiRO (Post 2820262)
Mention France and without failure you'll either see the words "socialist" or "riots" or both within a couple of posts. "Demographics" and "Europe" is an open invitation for some dude to show up claiming how "it's projected that Germany and Italy will have their populations plummet before 2050" (!)
Well that theory was proven wrong last year (Italy added 300,000) and we still have 43 years to go.
It's ridiculous...

I have nothing against you and I know of your connection with Spain, but why mention Spain is 90% white when that is totally besides the point?


France has a serious public relations problem here in the United States. Thankfully, the US media and political talking heads are singing the prasies of their new president and the whole freedom fires thing has calmed down.


As for my population posts, I'm sooooooo sorry I don't read the EU's censuses religously:rolleyes: . All I know is the BBC did a several part series on the changing demographics of Europe and Merkel made it a central part of her campagin. WHO's own reports show the charts and Europe's population slice of the pie is going down. I agree with the above poster that Europe should try to preserve it's heritiage and it's own people.


BTW, is your number an actual census figure? Or something you pulled off the economist or something?

SHiRO May 7, 2007 11:36 PM

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...opulation+2005

And if you don't read the EU's censuses religiously, why are you commenting about "Europe's" supposed decline? ;)

What strikes me is that it are strictly non Europeans here who are "worried" that native Europeans (whatever they mean by that) are going to die out and that Europe is going to lose its culture...

Sorry but Rotterdam is still very much a Dutch city even with 50+% of its inhabitants being non Dutch as is the case now.

And if I'm being too sensitive, please link me to a thread on this forum about Europe that doesn't descent into myths and uninformed "opinions" on the very first page.

Nexus6 May 8, 2007 2:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiRO (Post 2820529)
What strikes me is that it are strictly non Europeans here who are "worried" that native Europeans (whatever they mean by that) are going to die out and that Europe is going to lose its culture...

I guess that many Americans of European descent have subconscious worries about the increasing non-white immigration to the US. Traditionally though they could at least take comfort in the phantasy that there will always be a large pool of whites in Europe to draw immigrants from, should the number of whites in the US dwindle too much. But seeing reports about the increasing ethnic diversification in Europe is destroying that comforting phantasy which in turn increase worries in US whites about their position in their own country.

SrbijaCG May 8, 2007 2:30 AM

I wouldn't worry, we'll always have Eastern Europe.

My photo from Warsaw's Praga district last month - not a face that doesn't "belong" there. After a number of years in multi-culti Toronto, I felt right at home. Everyone there looked like me, dressed like, behaved like me - don't get me wrong but it was a REAL refreshment :)

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7...23largeqe8.jpg

SHiRO May 8, 2007 3:14 AM

I can't figure out if you are being sarcastic.
Knowing you, you aren't even kidding, right...:rolleyes:

SrbijaCG May 8, 2007 3:55 AM

Nah, carry on...i just wanted to show off with a nice Warsaw photo taken by me, myself and I;)

SHiRO May 8, 2007 4:01 AM

I hope you noticed the big "Kebab" sign.

Hmm Polish food...

crisp444 May 8, 2007 4:07 AM

Shiro,

I apologize for being rude to you. I was just a little upset with your response after I made a factual, non-offensive statement in response to someone else. You're right that classifying people in Europe by race does not take into account fully the amount of immigration certain regions have experienced recently. Even my family in Spain is not Spanish by birth (they are from Argentina). However, even if the percentage "white" / "light-skinned Caucasian" or whatever you want to call it may not be as relavent to this discussion as the numbers of immigrants coming into Spain, I feel obliged to dispell non-factual information about said country when I have the chance to do so. I agree that lots of things posted on here by Americans are terribly misinformed or non-factual, but this is really a two-way street: I have heard some horrendously untrue things said by Europeans about the United States. Having discussions like this (that involve people from both sides of the Atlantic) help us all to be better informed if the information exchanged is honest, relavent, and true. That's all. :)

CodyY May 8, 2007 4:26 AM

I don't see why race seems to be taboo in Europe...Taking tabs on race must be un-PC there, and I don't see why! I guess it must be because sizeable populations of nonwhites is relatively recent. Since America's conception, we have never been less than 10% nonwhite (and were at 1/3 nonwhite now). And not that anyone cares, but generally Turks are considered white, at least where I am from. Obviously the US and Europe have vastly different opinions on race basically here, if you are not less than half black, Mexican/Central American, Asian, or Native American, you are considered white.

NewYorkYankee May 8, 2007 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus6 (Post 2820899)
I guess that many Americans of European descent have subconscious worries about the increasing non-white immigration to the US. Traditionally though they could at least take comfort in the phantasy that there will always be a large pool of whites in Europe to draw immigrants from, should the number of whites in the US dwindle too much. But seeing reports about the increasing ethnic diversification in Europe is destroying that comforting phantasy which in turn increase worries in US whites about their position in their own country.

Uhhh....no. If for anything, this half-white kid wants to move TO Europe. My main interest is in the anthropology of it all. All kinds of people make the world go 'round and I am simply curious as to why Europeans seem none to keen on keeping themselves in the game.


Hey, if America turned all non-white, then it wouldn't really bother me. I just don't want to see the world lose more diversity. I would say the same things if it was Chinese declining in China.

RustNeverSleeps May 8, 2007 3:25 PM

Give it a couple of millenniums and the global warming will take care of the white people.

Anyway, all this talk of Europe being overrun by immigrants is total bull, as Europe has been overrun by immigrants for the last 35 000 years.

Nexus6 May 8, 2007 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 2820306)
The end result is that Germany is as prosperous as ever, but feels almost indistinguishable from the U.S., the U.K., or wherever. Globalization makes all places seem a little less unique.

That fear is baseless. All the countries you mentioned will still be quite different in the future as Germany will be populated by German speaking Turks, the UK by English speaking Pakistanis and the US by Spanish speaking Latinos.

SHiRO May 8, 2007 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444 (Post 2821107)
Shiro,

I apologize for being rude to you. I was just a little upset with your response after I made a factual, non-offensive statement in response to someone else. You're right that classifying people in Europe by race does not take into account fully the amount of immigration certain regions have experienced recently. Even my family in Spain is not Spanish by birth (they are from Argentina). However, even if the percentage "white" / "light-skinned Caucasian" or whatever you want to call it may not be as relavent to this discussion as the numbers of immigrants coming into Spain, I feel obliged to dispell non-factual information about said country when I have the chance to do so. I agree that lots of things posted on here by Americans are terribly misinformed or non-factual, but this is really a two-way street: I have heard some horrendously untrue things said by Europeans about the United States. Having discussions like this (that involve people from both sides of the Atlantic) help us all to be better informed if the information exchanged is honest, relavent, and true. That's all. :)

No worries! And no need to apologize either.

:cheers:

R@ptor May 10, 2007 12:45 AM

Foreigners living in Germany in 2006 (Note: these numbers do not include persons who immigrated to Germany and have gained the German citizenship - only holders of foreign passports are included)

Overall: 6.751.002

Turkey: 1.738.831
Italy: 534.657
Poland: 361.696
Greece: 303.761
Serbia: 282.067
Croatia: 227.510
Russia: 187.514
Austria: 175.653
Bosnia & Herzegovina: 157.094
Netherlands: 123.466
Portugal: 115.028
Spain: 106.819
France: 104.085
United States: 99.265
United Kingdom: 96.507
Vietnam: 83.076
China: 75.733
Iraq: 73.561
Romania: 73.353
Morocco: 69.926
Montenegro: 62.295
Iran: 58.707
Hungary: 52.347
Afghanistan: 52.162

SrbijaCG May 10, 2007 12:56 AM

So the situation is like this in Germany:

Overall: 6.751.002

Turkey: 1.738.831

Yugoslavs: 728900 (without Slovenes & Macedonians)

Italy: 534.657
Poland: 361.696
Greece: 303.761
Russia: 187.514
Austria: 175.653
Netherlands: 123.466
Portugal: 115.028
Spain: 106.819
France: 104.085
United States: 99.265
United Kingdom: 96.507
Vietnam: 83.076
China: 75.733
Iraq: 73.561
Romania: 73.353
Morocco: 69.926
Iran: 58.707
Hungary: 52.347
Afghanistan: 52.162


I believe the real numbers are even higher than these "official" statistics.

liat91 May 17, 2007 9:02 AM

Back to my original simple question.
Does anyone have a wild/educated/uneducated guess as to the racial demographics of the whole of Europe at this point. Europe is what? over 700 million people. I'm guessing it's around 90-95% white. And for the immigrants in certain countries that didn't come from another European country, I would only include Turks and Israelis as being white. Syria and Iran have many white looking people but not enough to generalize them as being majority white. Any ideas? Guess, I don't care, I'm just looking for a gross idea. Thanks again guys.

Mercutio May 17, 2007 9:13 AM

^ My guess is an average of 5-10% non-white in western Europe (much higher percentages in the cities of course....) and considerably less than that in former eastern bloc countries where almost everyone is white.

Nexus6 May 17, 2007 9:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 2840549)
And for the immigrants in certain countries that didn't come from another European country, I would only include Turks and Israelis as being white. Syria and Iran have many white looking people but not enough to generalize them as being majority white.

If you classify Turks as "white" I don't see how you cannot classify Arabs and Iranians as "white" too.

Here is the former Miss World Germany Sandra Ahrabian for instance, she is Iranian and doesn't look any less white than your average Turk.

http://www.sandra-ahrabian.com/image...577%5B2%5D.jpg

http://www.sandra-ahrabian.com/image...QQ/dsc6346.jpg

http://www.sandra-ahrabian.com/image...526%5B1%5D.jpg

http://www.sandra-ahrabian.com/image...e/c9vm2252.jpg

SHiRO May 17, 2007 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 2840549)
Back to my original simple question.
Does anyone have a wild/educated/uneducated guess as to the racial demographics of the whole of Europe at this point. Europe is what? over 700 million people. I'm guessing it's around 90-95% white. And for the immigrants in certain countries that didn't come from another European country, I would only include Turks and Israelis as being white. Syria and Iran have many white looking people but not enough to generalize them as being majority white. Any ideas? Guess, I don't care, I'm just looking for a gross idea. Thanks again guys.

And back to the original simple response.
Nobody is taking notes on white, black or otherwise.
Why the obsession with race? What purpose does it serve?

NewYorkYankee May 17, 2007 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiRO (Post 2840585)
And back to the original simple response.
Nobody is taking notes on white, black or otherwise.
Why the obsession with race? What purpose does it serve?


Racially, not much. But coming from an American prospective, we're very racial. People simply want to know.

Swede May 17, 2007 5:57 PM

While most places in Europe have as an anti-racism meassure a policy of NOT keeping track of people's race. The notion of race is arbitrary anyway. One way to divide is in races is to see that we're all the same race (Homo Sapiens) or we could divide everyone into thousands of races. How many there are nad where to draw the lines is 100% a social construction.

Rough estimates can be made from statistics on where people are born (and sometimes from where their parents are born for 2nd gen immigrants). But I really don't care enough to try to dig out/compile such stats.

Minato Ku Nov 16, 2007 1:41 AM

A bad new for someone a good for other but in France there is the project to introduction ethnical statistic to reduction discrimination.
Good or Idea ? :shrug:

According the Conseil représentatif des associations noires (Cran) there is between 3 and 5 million black people in France (Include overseas departements) 1/4 are from Caribbean and 1/3 from Africa.(Most are french born)
Closer than 5 million according my observation in big and medium cities.
Accroding Chinois de France there is about 1 million people ethnicaly Chinese in France. (Most are french born)
1 million ethnicaly chinese it is maybe to many but 1 million ethnical east asian should be right
I don't have information for the arab but it is the largest non white group in France
And I don't have information for south Asian and mixed people like me.

By any way today France is the country with the highest non white population in Europe.

Even if I agree with Swede and I don't like the idea race, I very curious to know how is the modern French population. :)

villelumiere Dec 30, 2007 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 2812234)
Watch the movie Volver and you might change your mind.

Movies are a totally unreliable barometre. Mancuso elsewhere expressed surprise that the UK was 90% white. His surprise probably coming form knowing Britain largely through television programs, adverts, music videos, movies etc or by being a tourist in London which is the nearest thing the world has to a capital city and is in effect a city state.

I appreciate I am on dangerous ground here but metropolitan ad agencies and casting agencies have informal quota systems in place insuring black/Asian presence in virtually every television programme or advert.. necessarilly this exaggerates the percentage of non whites. I make no complaint or judgment. I just point to a reality.

ghostmachine Sep 1, 2008 11:31 PM

Speaking for the United States, there are quite a few areas that are 100% white. The largest neighborhoods being:

City, State, ZIP Code - Population

1. Jessup, PA, 18434 - 4,107
2. Kinsman, OH, 44428 - 3,396
3. Naples, ME, 04055 - 3,226
4. Alum Creek, WV, 25003 - 3,139
5. Shelbiana, KY, 41562 - 2,853

Reference: United States Census ZIP Code Demographics

Grumpy Mar 27, 2009 2:21 PM

Which European metropolitan areas grew the most in the last five years ?

R@ptor Mar 27, 2009 5:23 PM

/\

Percentage-wise it's most likely Valencia.

Minato Ku Mar 27, 2009 5:54 PM

It depend the size, over one million inhabitants it is maybe Valencia. Metroplitain areas in Spain and in southwestern France grow quite fast.

909 Mar 27, 2009 10:08 PM

Toulouse is the fastest growing metropolitan area in Europe:
  • population of the urban area: 761 090 (1999) | 871 800 (2007)
  • population of the metro: 964 797 (1999) | 1 117 000 (2007)

Quote:

Demographics

The population of the city proper was 390,350 (as of the 1999 census), with 964,797 inhabitants in the metropolitan area (as of 1999 census). As of 1 January 2005 estimate, the population of the city proper reached 435,000 inhabitants, which means a record 1.9% population growth per year between 1999 and 2005 for the city proper.

Toulouse is the fourth largest city in France, after Paris, Marseille and Lyon. In 1999 Toulouse was the fifth largest metropolitan area in France, after Paris, Lyon, Marseille and Lille.

Fueled by booming aerospace and high-tech industries, population growth of 1.5% a year in the metropolitan area in the 1990s (compared with a sluggish 0.37% for metropolitan France), and a record 2.2% yearly growth in the 2000s (0.58% for metropolitan France), means Toulouse metropolitan area hit the 1,000,000 inhabitants mark in 2002 or 2003. Boasting the highest population growth of any French metropolitan area larger than 500,000 inhabitants, Toulouse has already grown past Lille to become the fourth largest metropolitan area and is on its way to overtake Lyon as the third largest city of France. With 2.2% yearly population growth in the metropolitan area, Toulouse is also the fastest growing metropolitan area larger than one million inhabitants in Europe.

Wikipedia

Swede Mar 28, 2009 8:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy (Post 4162824)
Which European metropolitan areas grew the most in the last five years ?

Stockholm is growing quite a bit, but I can't find the last five years. I could find end of 2005 and end of 2008.

Code:

                                    2005-12-31            2008-12-31 
Stockholm City                        771 038                810 120
Stockholm's County (metro area)      1 889 945              1 981 263

The City, County and Urban Area are all at record levels now, the City topped to old pre-suburbanisation peak last year. 5% in three years is fairly big - especially since nowhere near that much housing was built.

liat91 Jun 4, 2009 7:54 PM

I saw London is now 69% white now. U.K. probably around 90% (England alone is 88% white).

I believe they say France is about 80% white and Germany about 92% white.

I do believe Europe should try and preserve itself since Asia, Middle East, Africa and indigineous Latin Americans are certainly doing so.

I truly want Africa and Asia to diversy much more than they currently are. At least 10% anyway. This would make the world a much more interesting place. Not just Europe, U.S., Canada and Australia being systematically remade. This is what will happen at this point if we don't want to consider race/culture as a human variable. In a 100 years when the worlds population is shringking is when we should not discuss race/culture any longer.

mark76 Jun 5, 2009 1:55 AM

hm very touchy subject but here is my 2 cents.
Some countries in Eastern Europe ( for example Croatia ,97% ethnic clear)white,croats only.

In Canada its different story,mix from all over the world.

Swede Jun 5, 2009 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 4287792)
I do believe Europe should try and preserve itself since Asia, Middle East, Africa and indigineous Latin Americans are certainly doing so.

Since when is Africa and Asia racist like that? The reason the West has been diversifying for many years now while other places haven't is simple: people want to move to the West. Far fewer want to move from "white" countries to "non-white" countries since most are far worse of economically and human rights-wise. I honestly don't get how anyone thinks (which I interpret it that you do) that "they" are intentionally trying to wipe "us" out by moving here and intermarrying. If you got the chance to move from the 3rd world to the 1st, wouldn't you take that chance? We got it good here and people in less well of parts of the world know this, so some try to move here. Nothing sinister about it.

mark76 Jun 5, 2009 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swede (Post 4289753)
Since when is Africa and Asia racist like that? The reason the West has been diversifying for many years now while other places haven't is simple: people want to move to the West. Far fewer want to move from "white" countries to "non-white" countries since most are far worse of economically and human rights-wise. I honestly don't get how anyone thinks (which I interpret it that you do) that "they" are intentionally trying to wipe "us" out by moving here and intermarrying. If you got the chance to move from the 3rd world to the 1st, wouldn't you take that chance? We got it good here and people in less well of parts of the world know this, so some try to move here. Nothing sinister about it.

I somewhat agree on this.I think its part of so called globalization.more people coming to west and here at west gladly accepted to some degree, more and more people coming regardless where they come from ,to cut story short ,more people -less jobs-less pay.

FREKI Jun 6, 2009 7:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 2840549)
Back to my original simple question.
Does anyone have a wild/educated/uneducated guess as to the racial demographics of the whole of Europe at this point. Europe is what? over 700 million people. I'm guessing it's around 90-95% white.

I doubt you will find many in Europe judging or messuring people by skin colour... or even using the term "white"..


What I can say is that in my municipal "Københavns Kommune" ( 1 of 18 that makes up Copenhagen ) 26,47% of the population ( 109.865 ) is immigrants
Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 2840549)
And for the immigrants in certain countries that didn't come from another European country, I would only include Turks and Israelis as being white. Syria and Iran have many white looking people but not enough to generalize them as being majority white. Any ideas? Guess, I don't care, I'm just looking for a gross idea. Thanks again guys.

I'm not gonna go into this skin colour thing - what people look like is of no importance to me and starting to make lines along borders as to whom look white and whom doesn't sounds rather gross to me!


Comming from Scandianvia everyone south of Berlin looks "dark" anyway so I'm not the right one to ask...

Swede Jun 6, 2009 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREKI (Post 4291151)
What I can say is that in my municipal "Københavns Kommune" ( 1 of 18 that makes up Copenhagen ) 26,47% of the population ( 109.865 ) is immigrants

My municipality has a lower rate, but when including 2nd generation Swedes it is at 28.1% (my district: 76.4%). Mind you, the largest country of origin (for the whole city): Finland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREKI (Post 4291151)
Comming from Scandianvia everyone south of Berlin looks "dark" anyway so I'm not the right one to ask...

Yeah, South of Berlin (or the Alps when being generous) and east of Finland = not really "white" to those who care about such things up here. Where the line between the races are drawn is very arbitrary.

Minato Ku Jun 6, 2009 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 4287792)
I believe they say France is about 80% white.

I think it is closer to 15% than 20%.
_______________________________________________________________

Something interresting about the past.

Foreigners in 1931 France.
  • Italian: 808,038
  • Polish: 507,811
  • Spanish: 351,864
  • Belgian: 253,694
  • Swiss: 98,475
  • Russian: 71,928
  • German: 71,729
  • Portuguese: 48,963
  • Czechoslovak: 47,401
  • English: 47,322
  • Turkish: 36,119
  • Yugoslav: 31,873
  • Armenian: 29,227
  • Luxembourgish: 21,466
  • Greeks: 19,123
  • Hugarian: 18,824
  • American (USA): 16,819
  • Romanian: 15,387



Naturalized (Immigrant having gain the french nationality) by country of birth in 1931.
  • Italy: 100,642
  • Belgium: 66,896
  • Germany: 33,204
  • Spain: 26,935
  • Switzerland: 19,714
  • Poland: 13,535
  • Russia: 10,972
  • Luxembourg: 7,057
  • Turkey: 5,114
  • Great Britain and Ireland: 4,352
  • Romania: 4,317
  • Greece: 1,751
  • USA: 1,623



People from french colonies in 1931.
  • North Africa: 85,568
  • Rest of Africa: 16,401
  • Asia: 7,929

http://www.histoire-immigration.fr/u..._diag_1931.pdf


Few people know that were about 900,000 immigrant from in Italy in 1931. Oxford university estimated that in the 1980's about 10% of the french propulation had at least a italian immigrant grand parent.


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