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-   -   SAN ANTONIO │ Lone Star Brewery Redevelopment Thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=219675)

sirkingwilliam Nov 14, 2015 7:26 PM

SAN ANTONIO │ Lone Star Brewery Redevelopment Thread
 
It finally seems things are getting underway at the Lone Star Brewery site. After years of talk and potential buyers who were interested in the site but ultimately did nothing, there seems to be a developer willing to revitalize the long abandoned Southtown brewery.

If all goes as planned, the urban core could be book-ended by the Pearl to the north and the Lone Star to the south.

Could the Lone Star be as game changing for the urban core as the Pearl has been?

The developer is talking about bringing back Lone Star to brew on the site in some way, adding a Texas Music Hall of Fame as well as an outdoor music venue. That plus, housing, retail and other commercial options, could lend this development to be a true gem for the urban core and Southtown.





Quote:

Roughly half a year after buying 36 acres at the former Lone Star Brewery site south of downtown San Antonio, Aqualand Development’s vision for what the long-neglected area can become is taking shape. And those plans will focus on elements that helped keep the once popular destination afloat decades ago — beer and entertainment.

“We have started work on our redevelopment plans and started to clean up the site so we can bring this place back to life,” Aqualand Development founder and CEO Mark Smith said.

San Marcos-based Aqualand Development has acquired the Historic Lone Star Beer Brewery site south of downtown San Antonio and plans to transform the area into a mixed-use destination for locals and tourists.

Over the next six months, the San Marcos, Texas-based company plans to lock up the balance of the 65 acres and firm up plans for the existing buildings. Meanwhile, what is already clear as the water from the artesian wells beneath the former brewery is that Aqualand officials want to tap into as much of the area’s history as possible.



That starts with beer. And one of the more intriguing elements of Aqualand’s redevelopment plan is to return Lone Star Beer to the brewery it abandoned years ago.

“One of our main focus is to bring Lone Star Beer back. We’ve been in very high level talks with them,” Smith said.


“They are going to have a presence here. It’s just a matter of how far they want to take it,” Aqualand Vice President Mark Evans said.

Preliminary plans also call for other microbrewery establishments, as well as a new beer garden that would further reinforce the connection between the area and its brewing heritage.


Other complementary economic developments are also in the works. Among the venues Aqualand is attempting to bring to Lone Star are a Texas Music Hall of Fame and a 1,200-seat live music hall.

“There is no Texas Music Hall of Fame,” Smith said. “We want to bring one to San Antonio.”

Aqualand officials have already begun to reach out to industry leaders about the development of a new museum tied to a brewery that has long had ties to country music in the region.

Aqualand officials also have their sites on other entertainment venues, including a dine-in movie theater complex.

While the total redevelopment of Lone Star Brewery could cost more than $300 million, according to Smith, the investment could be far more astronomical were it not for the existing infrastructure, which will be renovated and repurposed.



“We’ve spent the last six months figuring out where we are with the buildings. We didn’t know,” Evans said. “We used local engineering firms who have inspected the buildings individually. There is nothing that we want to do with the mixed-use plans that can’t be supported by the buildings.”

“This is like an open canvas. This property hasn’t been touched in years,” Smith said. “This is the biggest project in the history of our company. But we believe in this. We put our money into Lone Star because we can see what it can be.”


LOCATION
INCLUDING THE PEARL

http://i.imgur.com/iMhEgWR.png

Fireoutofclay Nov 17, 2015 12:27 AM

http://i.giphy.com/z91tFIwWZOJq0.gif

kornbread Nov 18, 2015 10:33 PM

I had tried to look at other projects this company had worked on and this is pretty ambitious for them. Trying to remember the site itself, I don't think it lends itself to being something like the Pearl, but I can certainly see it having a southtown feel; maybe a polished blue star.

I can't imagine Lone Star would start brewing there again in any way more than some kind of Lone Star brew pub type of thing. The dine-in movie theater probably says more about the place it's going to be. Hopefully it won't be a Quarry or Rim type development. I understand they intend to make money on this :tup: but who likes strip malls?

The idea of a music hall of fame seems wrong unless that focuses and celebrates the actual history of San Antonio and South Texas. A country music based place will go the way of the old Fiesta Texas or the Aztec Theater's San Antonio Rose (they won't work in that limited way). If they did go forward with the HOF idea, it should mainly be a live music hall with the memorabilia on the side.

And finally, they are located on the river! :drowning:They should completely invite and link to the advantage of the linear park and any changes related to world heritage inclusion of the missions.

The recycling center next door looks toxic:dead:

The Model Nov 30, 2015 8:51 PM

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o.../124824315.jpg

I took this shot the last time I was up in the helicopter.

txex06 Apr 28, 2016 1:25 AM

Got a sneak peek at the rendering and the whole project looks awesome! Looks much cooler then what the Peal has turned into. The renderings included a huge European style glass atrium market with multiple craft breweries, a cinema, retail, beer garden, apartments with multiple pools, and a hotel. The old pool on site right now will be a large fountain. Parking garages will be located along the outer perimeter of the property.

Keep-SA-Lame Apr 28, 2016 1:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txex06 (Post 7423262)
Got a sneak peek at the rendering and the whole project looks awesome! Looks much cooler then what the Peal has turned into. The renderings included a huge European style glass atrium market with multiple craft breweries, a cinema, retail, beer garden, apartments with multiple pools, and a hotel. The old pool on site right now will be a large fountain. Parking garages will be located along the outer perimeter of the property.

Intriguing. Were you at some kind of event where they were showing off the plans? What's the scale like (high rises or low rises)?

PDG91 Apr 28, 2016 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txex06 (Post 7423262)
Got a sneak peek at the rendering and the whole project looks awesome! Looks much cooler then what the Peal has turned into. The renderings included a huge European style glass atrium market with multiple craft breweries, a cinema, retail, beer garden, apartments with multiple pools, and a hotel. The old pool on site right now will be a large fountain. Parking garages will be located along the outer perimeter of the property.

Where did you see these renderings? I know that they have an office on site at lone star. Also, do you know when they are going to start construction? I've been so fascinated by this abandoned factory for the longest time.

txex06 Apr 28, 2016 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 7423692)
Intriguing. Were you at some kind of event where they were showing off the plans? What's the scale like (high rises or low rises)?

Saw the plans through a friend who is working on the project. He is supposed to keep everything hush, but he gave me a look. Right now the scale looks like the buildings will be 4-5 stories.

Fireoutofclay May 19, 2016 5:00 PM

Aqualand adds heavy hitter to help redevelop Lone Star Brewery
W. Scott Bailey Reporter/Project Coordinator
San Antonio Business Journal
May 19, 2016, 10:02am CDT Updated May 19, 2016, 11:10am CDT
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantoni...e.html?ana=twt

Quote:

CBL & Associates Properties has signed on to help Aqualand Development transform the long-shuttered Lone Star Brewery into one of the largest mixed-used destinations south of downtown San Antonio.

“We’ve brought CBL in as a partner to help us with this,” Aqualand President Adam Schneider said. “We brought them on because of the horsepower they have behind them and because they have a very good reputation in the market. They will help us get the project off the ground.”


Trillhippy210 May 19, 2016 6:23 PM

There are some renderings as well as the site plan for Lone Star Brewery on their website http://lonestarbrewerydistrict.com

Keep-SA-Lame May 19, 2016 7:27 PM

Very interesting. It's like part Pearl, part suburban town center-type development. By suburban town center I mean that it has a fuckton of parking and is pretty much not connected to anything around it except the river, but that's really more a function of the context of the site than anything I guess. Overall this should be a very positive development for the south side if it ever gets off the ground.

Spoiler May 19, 2016 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillhippy210 (Post 7447305)
There are some renderings as well as the site plan for Lone Star Brewery on their website http://lonestarbrewerydistrict.com

After all the hype, it's disappointing how mundane this development looks. There are opportunities to develop this in a more urban way but that is not evident in this plan. This is designed like a suburban shopping center when it could have been designed like an actual "district".

Trillhippy210 May 19, 2016 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7447410)
After all the hype, it's disappointing how mundane this development looks. There are opportunities to develop this in a more urban way but that is not evident in this plan. This is designed like a suburban shopping center when it could have been designed like an actual "district".

How does it look like a suburban development? This is great for DTSA & moreover Southtown, though I'm not really looking forward to all the people. Blue Star is gonna be packed a lot more.

Keep-SA-Lame May 19, 2016 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillhippy210 (Post 7447423)
How does it look like a suburban development? This is great for DTSA & moreover Southtown, though I'm not really looking forward to all the people. Blue Star is gonna be packed a lot more.

A suburban town center development. Google "sugarland town center" for one example, Dallas is also full of similar projects, La Cantera is part way done building one well.

Obviously Lone Star is different and better than those because of its location and the fact that it's at least partially adaptive re-use, but in a lot of ways it looks, in my opinion, functionally very similar to something like Sugarland Town Center (isolated, privately owned/maintained streets, lots of parking, "galleries" and private parks).

sirkingwilliam May 19, 2016 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 7447403)
Very interesting. It's like part Pearl, part suburban town center-type development. By suburban town center I mean that it has a [explotive] of parking and is pretty much not connected to anything around it except the river, but that's really more a function of the context of the site than anything I guess. Overall this should be a very positive development for the south side if it ever gets off the ground.

Not sure what you are seeing, but I see a ton of parking in parking garages. I don't see any problem with that.

I'd wager a bet that the Pearl currently has more surface parking than what Lone Star shows to have in its plans.

sirkingwilliam May 19, 2016 7:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7447410)
After all the hype, it's disappointing how mundane this development looks. There are opportunities to develop this in a more urban way but that is not evident in this plan. This is designed like a suburban shopping center when it could have been designed like an actual "district".

This development is very urban, aside from the surface parking in front of the hotel, which btw, is no different than the surface parking in front of Hotel Emma in the Pearl. Surface parking is always going to have a place in urban planning in car centric cities. LA has them, Houston and Dallas them. Look at Victory Park in Dallas. Look at LA Live in LA. I can go on. ANYONE complaining about this development, of a currently vacant wasteland, is just complaining for the sake of complaining, imo.

Keep-SA-Lame May 19, 2016 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7447451)
Not sure what you are seeing but I see a ton of parking in parking garages.

I'd wager a bet that the Pearl currently has more surface parking than what Lone Star shows to have in its plans.

I'm not talking about parking lots, I'm talking total parking (lots + garages). Pearl has the same problem, too much parking. If you provide parking, people will drive. As someone who had lived car-free by choice in this town for five years, this is something that needs to change.

Spoiler May 19, 2016 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7447455)
This development is very urban, aside from the surface parking in front of the hotel, which btw, is no different than the surface parking in front of Hotel Emma in the Pearl. Surface parking is always going to have a place in urban planning in car centric cities. LA has them, Houston and Dallas them. Look at Victory Park in Dallas. Look at LA Live in LA. I can go on. ANYONE complaining about this development, of a currently vacant wasteland, is just complaining for the sake of complaining, imo.

I disagree.

sirkingwilliam May 19, 2016 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 7447445)
A suburban town center development. Google "sugarland town center" for one example, Dallas is also full of similar projects, La Cantera is part way done building one well.

Obviously Lone Star is different and better than those because of its location and the fact that it's at least partially adaptive re-use, but in a lot of ways it looks, in my opinion, functionally very similar to something like Sugarland Town Center (isolated, privately owned/maintained streets, lots of parking, "galleries" and private parks).

I'm sorry, but no. This development does not resemble sugarland town center. If any development in SA resembled Sugarland Town Center, it'd be the Rim or on a smaller scale Legacy.

I'm sorry, but that comparison is just hyperbolic rubbish imo.

sirkingwilliam May 19, 2016 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7447460)
I disagree.

And you are more than allowed to. But you can't disagree with the fact that Victory Park has surface parking lots, or that LA Live has surface parking lots.

Just be thankful that an abandoned brewery is being transformed into an absolute gem of a development on the near south side of San Antonio. This will eventually be called part of "Southtown", but make no mistake this was the "Southside" ten, five years ago.

Now, that's being built there. Great times ahead for the urban core.

Keep-SA-Lame May 19, 2016 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7447461)
I'm sorry, but no. This development does not resemble sugarland town center. If any development in SA resembled Sugarland Town Center, it'd be the Rim or on a smaller scale Legacy.

I'm sorry, but that comparison is just hyperbolic rubbish imo.

If you would read my comments I said it was a combination of Sugarland and the Pearl It has a lot of elements of both, positive and negative. Also, I said very explicitly that overall this is a positive project for the south side.

Quote:

Just be thankful that an abandoned brewery is being transformed
I have said this here before, but I used to work for a time in economic development, and I get so sick and tired of the constant blind boosterism and cheerleading in this town (I'm looking at you, Rivard Report). Not every new development is necessarily positive, and I think this one in particular has some issues to work out.

Spoiler May 19, 2016 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7447469)
And you are more than allowed to.

Thanks!

Trillhippy210 May 19, 2016 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 7447481)
If you would read my comments I said it was a combination of Sugarland and the Pearl It has a lot of elements of both, positive and negative. Also, I said very explicitly that overall this is a positive project for the south side.



I have said this here before, but I used to work for a time in economic development, and I get so sick and tired of the constant blind boosterism and cheerleading in this town (I'm looking at you, Rivard Report). Not every new development is necessarily positive, and I think this one in particular has some issues to work out.

What kind of issues?

sirkingwilliam May 19, 2016 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame (Post 7447481)
I have said this here before, but I used to work for a time in economic development, and I get so sick and tired of the constant blind boosterism and cheerleading in this town (I'm looking at you, Rivard Report). Not every new development is necessarily positive, and I think this one in particular has some issues to work out.

I agree. I am not a fan of blind boosterism either. But, in all sincere honesty, the only real issue you seem to take with this development is grounded in an established bias.

SA is a car centric city and any modern day development will always address that. Be it an urban or suburban development.

AwesomeSAView May 19, 2016 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7447410)
After all the hype, it's disappointing how mundane this development looks. There are opportunities to develop this in a more urban way but that is not evident in this plan. This is designed like a suburban shopping center when it could have been designed like an actual "district".


It is a pattern of negativity with certain people on this forum.
It is a very "obvious" pattern.
How truly sad that is.
I just hope their lives get better.
:shrug:

Make it a GREAT day!! :yes:

Spoiler May 19, 2016 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView (Post 7447636)
It is a pattern of critical thinking and holding development to a higher set of standards with certain people on this forum.
It is a very "obvious" pattern.
How truly useful that is.
I recognize that their personal lives have no relevance to their opinions on urban development, and to comment about their personal lives comes very close to engaging in ad hominem attack.
:shrug:

Make it a GREAT day!! :yes:

I agree.

AwesomeSAView May 20, 2016 2:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7447695)
I agree.


Too funny!
But too defensive.

That's my constructive opinion.:cheers:

RyanfromTexas May 20, 2016 10:49 AM

I for one agree with SKW here. This looks great and is consistent with expectations for an adaptive reuse project for this area in this city at this time. The complaint here is that they still haven't found a solution for the scrap metal recycling facility next door. That facility is impossible to avoid. It is the only front door to this place. You must drive past it to enter. It is a non-starter. Without a solution this project will not launch as evidenced by decades of failed launches citing that recycling plant's inability to be relocated.

The Model May 23, 2016 5:49 AM

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o.../130582373.jpg

This area has so much potential, viewing from above.

RyanfromTexas May 23, 2016 11:21 AM

Great picture Raul! And thanks for cutting out that scrap metal plant! I wonder if this does get going, if the developers will start scooping up and bidding up the surrounding properties much like Silver ventures has done with the Pearl....

The Model May 25, 2016 3:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanfromTexas (Post 7450306)
Great picture Raul! And thanks for cutting out that scrap metal plant! I wonder if this does get going, if the developers will start scooping up and bidding up the surrounding properties much like Silver ventures has done with the Pearl....

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o.../130640166.jpg

You mean this place?

RyanfromTexas May 25, 2016 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Model (Post 7452418)

:) It's so ugly yet your pictures are so purty!

RyanfromTexas Aug 11, 2016 2:43 AM

http://therivardreport.com/ambitious...-star-brewery/


This is the first time I've seen any conceptual renderings. Looks a lot like the Pearl. I hope it can have the same effect for Southtown!

Bigfoot Yancey Aug 11, 2016 11:11 PM

I like it a lot. Hope they can be successful renting space and get it underway soon.

wwmiv Aug 11, 2016 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfoot Yancey (Post 7528440)
I like it a lot. Hope they can be successful renting space and get it underway soon.

Oh they'll be successful. San Antonio's market can handle it and there are plenty of retailers that should be in San Antonio that aren't yet as well as locals that could expand to new locations.

kornbread Oct 6, 2016 5:58 AM

Lone Star Brewery Unveils First Major Tenants
 
Author: DANIEL KLEIFGEN
THE RIVARD REPORT
Date: 5 October, 2016 at 17:32
http://therivardreport.com/lone-star...major-tenants/

Quote:

Though still uncertain, the Lone Star Brewery District‘s character came into clearer focus Tuesday with the announcement of two future tenants – an international movie theater chain and an expanding, Denver-based bar and restaurant that targets Millennials with vintage games and a “dirty modern” feel.

“We are thrilled to announce Cinemark and Punch Bowl Social as the first major tenants at the Lone Star Brewery District,” CBL Properties & Associates, Inc. Vice President of Development David Neuhoff stated in an email. “Both of these exciting entertainment venues fill a void in the Southtown market and fit perfectly with our vision of providing San Antonio with an unparalleled entertainment, retail, and dining experience.”
I understand that San Antonio is movie going city, but a 10 screen theater on that site feels like a bad fit. Especially with the nearby arts influenced areas of Blue Star and South Flores. If it was maybe a smaller scale, a place that hosted local film festivals, or somehow supported local industry then maybe. Otherwise, to me, these 2 tenants give it a strip mall feel.

Spoiler Oct 6, 2016 5:07 PM

I'm afraid Lone Star is gonna be more like the Quarry or the Rim than like the Pearl.

jaga185 Oct 6, 2016 6:09 PM

I kind of wish it was Alamo Drafthouse that was going in there. They have special events and such, could have been fun.

RyanfromTexas Oct 6, 2016 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaga185 (Post 7585840)
I kind of wish it was Alamo Drafthouse that was going in there. They have special events and such, could have been fun.

This.:cheers:

sirkingwilliam Oct 6, 2016 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7585743)
I'm afraid Lone Star is gonna be more like the Quarry or the Rim than like the Pearl.

In terms of tenants, maybe. Though I believe it'll be more a hybrid of those two and the Pearl.

But, it won't be either of those two in terms of its design, its look and its feel.

PDG91 Oct 7, 2016 4:23 PM

This is a completely different project than the Pearl brewery. I like the Pearl and respect that it has local businesses as their tenants, but personally those businesses don’t attract me to going to the pearl on a weekly or monthly basis. Especially those high end, expensive restaurants. Having anchors like cinemark and Punch bowl social will really grab local people’s attention to hit up lone star for all their food, entertainment, and shopping needs. Lone Star is a pretty big complex compared to the Pearl so I’m sure there’s going to be local businesses that will take up space in there. It's about time that we have a mixed use development in southtown that not only tourists can enjoy.

kornbread Oct 7, 2016 5:05 PM

They can put a 10 screen theater by the highway. If people want to kill a couple of hours in the dark eating $10 popcorn what difference does it make? That's a really large footprint and if you have that kind of frontage you should have as many places that interact with those surroundings. Maybe the theater will be a buffer to the scrap yard?

I could imagine a smaller 4-screen theater forming a type of courtyard where they occasionally show a free movie or a Spurs game.

It did sound like they are planning to do something useful that with their food court area, so that's good unless they drop in a Chile's or Crab Shack.

SAtown Oct 12, 2016 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornbread (Post 7586969)
They can put a 10 screen theater by the highway. If people want to kill a couple of hours in the dark eating $10 popcorn what difference does it make? That's a really large footprint and if you have that kind of frontage you should have as many places that interact with those surroundings. Maybe the theater will be a buffer to the scrap yard?

I could imagine a smaller 4-screen theater forming a type of courtyard where they occasionally show a free movie or a Spurs game.

It did sound like they are planning to do something useful that with their food court area, so that's good unless they drop in a Chile's or Crab Shack.

You're right! The movie theater will be against the scrap yard--just South of the cannery building. The site plan is on the MySanAntonio article gallery.

They want to do an icehouse concept that connects onto the river and maybe a live music venue.

I would imagine signing Cinemark and Punch Bowl helped with financing, but there will be local concepts here as well. This is going to be a really special place that elevates the perception of San Antonio, in my opinion. All the renderings I've seen are stunning!

jaga185 Oct 12, 2016 8:33 PM

I dont necessarily think chains are bad. Especially when they want entertainment, i just wish it was Alamo drafthouse. I love what I see so far. It's a great location for southtown. Once that scrap metal yard goes and they can connect it to probandt. This project will be seen as a major player of the entire area.

Bottom line... Get that scrap yard outta there!

Fireoutofclay Nov 1, 2016 6:10 PM

Lone Star rehab project entering San Antonio approval process
By Richard Webner
mysanantonio.com
Updated 9:57 pm, Monday, October 31, 2016
http://www.mysanantonio.com/real-est...photo-11678759

Quote:

The highly anticipated $300 million project to redevelop the Lone Star Brewery will confront its first two hurdles in the city approval process this week with strong support from nearby neighborhoods.
Quote:

If the project clears the hurdles this week, it will still be subject to final approval from the HDRC after the developers incorporate the commission’s suggestions into their design plans. If Zoning Commission gives it a thumbs-up, City Council will hold a final vote on Dec. 1 over the developers’ request to change the zoning from heavy industrial to an infill development zone, which would allow for a variety of commercial and residential uses.
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/54/43/20.../1024x1024.jpg

Fireoutofclay Nov 2, 2016 2:29 PM

Zoning Commission Okays Lone Star Brewery Redevelopment
Camille Garcia
The Rivard Report
15 hours ago
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...s-10448379.php

Quote:

Developers intend to “keep the former look of (the Lone Star Brewery) and turn it into a true destination for the Southside of San Antonio,” Jennifer Greer, CBL senior director of development, told commissioners Tuesday.

Current project plans include implementing three multi-family housing developments, retail and office spaces, a hotel, a park connecting to the Mission Reach, and a 10-screen Cinemark movie theater. In early October, developers also confirmed Punch Bowl Social, a popular bar/restaurant and vintage arcade, along with Cinemark as one of the site’s first major tenants.
http://3snpdc2ba9m5uwuk62n8cs84.wpen...KL-768x624.jpg

jaga185 Nov 2, 2016 4:24 PM

I wonder if the plans will change to further accommodate Mala Luna. It doesn't seem like a lot of space for it with the current plans.

jaga185 Nov 3, 2016 1:01 AM

delete this

jaga185 Nov 3, 2016 1:03 AM

HDRC Gives Conceptual Approval to Lone Star Redevelopment Design

http://3snpdc2ba9m5uwuk62n8cs84.wpen...8123220551.jpg

http://3snpdc2ba9m5uwuk62n8cs84.wpen...-2-771x396.jpg

http://3snpdc2ba9m5uwuk62n8cs84.wpen...-3-771x412.jpg

kornbread Nov 3, 2016 1:08 AM

Off Topic...

WRT Mala Luna; Was that show successful?
Whatever happened to Sunken Gardens? Would that work?

I always liked that site to see shows.


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