Ahh this gets me in the mood for fictitious maps of how we wish the future transit network would look. I remember eburress had a pretty awesome one.
I always had this idea that the airport would move to Miramar and then a big intermodal hub would be built at the corner of the property closest to downtown. Here, high speed rail, trolley and whatever other future local transit, Coaster, Amtrak, and an Airport Express line would all convene. Theres space for all that stuff there. It would also relieve the train traffic through downtown (if only something could be done about the freight trains like trenching). Just some things I thought would be ideal. Oh, and the Chargers stadium would be next door. |
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i may have been wrong in saying freeway "expansion". But it makes sense to invest in freeways by making them more efficient through smarter systems and better maintenance. The HOV lanes on the 15 have seemed to make an improvement. Most people in the county use the freeways. At the same time of all the things I said you guys focused on the "FREEWAY EXPANSION" part of my post. The main point I was trying to make was that San Diegans focus on spending, and forget about investing. We could invest in things like a new stadium, new sports arena, new airport, BETTER freeways, more/better transit, etc. It is a tough time with money, but investing in the future will still be positive.
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Also one going up Park blvd from City College to University Heights then down Adams to Kensington then right to El Cajon blvd and back to Park blvd,
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To me it is almost unexcusable to not have a trolley line to the Airport. I mean, come on, to extend that line the mile or two from its existing track seems to be something the airport authority could finance. It can't be that expensive. Almost every new light rail system in the US/North America goes to the airport... Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Minneapolis, etc.. |
Nice pics!
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This is one of my favorite views of downtown. It seems the most dense, here.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3422/...6c793a3d7d.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/...0dc331dc80.jpg The Broadway Pier Cruiseship Terminal - Nothing much going on here, yet. They are dismantling the existing structure. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2472/...c0c69b05df.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/...7679ecb83b.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2486/...11a111f82a.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3425/...3310b47d35.jpg Faia by Jonathan Segal in Little Italy - This building is pretty cool. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2465/...927c0e81d7.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2609/...ca3f571112.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/...a9e4bab3f4.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2587/...5245ac76c6.jpg Future Commercial Development Lane Field - Who knows when this will get started. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2573/...db51463da2.jpg Breeza http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/...347aefcd33.jpg Bayside by Bosa - Not sure if I like the color of this. It's a huge building, though. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2526/...4bec20bdac.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/...82358137d8.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/...b22638e64e.jpg More to come, next week! |
Keep them coming!
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Historic is like San Francisco's cable cars... very old systems. Small, very little capacity... 20-30-ish. There are overhead electrical ones too, but I cannot readily think of an example. Vintage is like the WWII or post war types. San Francisco and Phildelpia run them. Probably others too. SF's is the F Street line. Medium capacity... 30-50-ish. That includes standees. Modern... that is what Portland has. They are a bit longer and can carry more riders. They are typically low-floor allowing easy access for disabled riders. The Historic and Vintage ones only have a cab/driver on one end. Thus, they need to be turned around somehow on the end of the line; turntable or a looping track. They cannot couple to other cars.. therefore they cannot really provide high capacity transit. And, they tend to be slower than light-rail. These factors tend to make them limited to only enabling short distance travel. Streetcars are unlike light-rail that we have come to known; which is faster and has much higher capacity. Although, the Trolley does operate at-grade and in-street along C Street. That's called street-car mode; whereas it operates in an environment very much like streetcars, in a street. However, by policy, and out of safety and practicality, cars are not allowed to drive on the tracks. Why... light-rail is heavier than street cars and need a longer braking distance. Can you imagine a car swerving into the front of a Trolley to make a left turn... only to stop right infront of it? Additionally, the trains are too long and the blocks are too short. Imagine, if you will, a car stops at a red light and a long trains pulls up behind it? As a result, the tail of the train blocks the street behind it. Trains and cars sharing the roadway on C Street is not an option under present conditions. I am not finished, but that's it for now as I'm leaving town. Have a nice weekend. |
Skyline from Balboa Park
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2496/...6b74a56506.jpg |
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One, I don't subscribe to the idea that the Trolley "deactivated" C Street. Two, any relationship between the two should be discussed at the same time as the following: * The role and activities of C Street just prior to the Trolley, circa 1981? * The County jail; essentially building a barrier across C Street at Union. * City/County policies pushing/supporting/investing in business centers outside of the downtown core. * Public sector lack of investment and upkeep along the street. * Private sector turning their backs to the street. * Horton Plaza. In my opinion, the Trolley played as much a positive role for downtown San Diego as Horton Plaza did. |
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I am only interested in looking forward these days... and I think street cars have some potential to improve downtown transit mobility and encourage more retail activity. Thanks. |
Update on land values
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Observations on first time back to SD in 1.5 years
Finally got back to visit family and friends after a year in Korea and 7 months in NYC. Well I must say that the skyline is looking pretty decent. I saw it from the air maybe 8000 feet or so after take off and you know what, it looked respectable. Not Miami, not Vanouver but pretty decent. I think Vantage Pointe and the buildings along Market and the Hilton have done a lot to make SD look like an actual "city" from the air.
From other angles Vantage Pointe is a nice new Eastern "anchor" for the skyline. Having been living in NY I was curious to compare the Jersey City skyline to downtown SD and SD definitely blows it away. Other impressions: Space for Rent/Commercial Space available signs everywhere! WOW! My dentists office parking lot off of Executive way in UTC was a ghost TOWN and this was on Thursday not Friday. I couldn't believe all of the empty office space and parking lots all over North County. I also noticed more people walking then I remembered. Looks like kiddies aren't getting cars at 16 and 18 like they used to. And all the empty lots and dirt look pretty funky when you come from an East Coast perspective and you are accustomed to big shade trees in many areas. Overall it still seems like a nice place but tell me where I can get a job paying over 30 k per year??? New poll for everyone- How many people do you know who are 35 years old or younger and make over 35k per year in San Diego county? |
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Part 3 Yes, streetcar systems are nice. Technically, I think a streetcar could be designed to make it up to Hillcrest. However... with the cost of laying track, building stations, running trains... the function of moving lots of people should be considered. Although I use to live in Banker's Hill, I am uncertain sufficient demand exists to provide a good argument for spending $50m to $100m per mile to build something like that. That is excluding the likely possibility to need to provide a maintenance and storage yard for streetcars... let alone locate a nearby site for one. If a new system, or extension of an existing system, could successfully prove/argue that there would be sufficient demand and user benefit... then the Feds may provide up to 50% of the construction cost. The other half would be a state/local responsibility. That seems like an uphill battle, pardon the pun. Regarding airport connection... The Trolley already goes to the airport. The problem is... the airport terminals are not located to provide an easy connection to the Trolley. But... kidding aside, when the extension to Old Town was being examined an effort looked at an alignment to/through the airport. I am not familiar with the precise alignment; however, challenges existed with remaining below a certain height... and clearing the Coast Guard taxiway. Did you know Coast Guard planes have the ability to taxi across Harbor? It's 700-800 feet west of Laurel and Harbor. Anyway, it seems if water intrusion could be managed that going below that taxiway could have been a possibility.... if it were examined? Anyway, the Old Town alignment included a station at Palm St. for the possibility that the airport relocated terminals to the east side of the runways. So, maybe I was not kidding? Either way, if a new alignment were added to the Trolley system, a larger question involves how to tie it into the existing network (where do airport trains go to, or come from... and then blend safely in with other trains?) |
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A street car system along the North Embarcadero would be a nice addition. We do need to figure out how to better link downtown with Hillcrest and Balboa Park. To me this should be a huge priority. |
Park & Island - Anybody know what this project is called?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/...e9c85cee3c.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3509/...f0bd5774cd.jpg Smart Corner - Really not a good part of town. I walked through here at about 12:00 noon as saw people drinking from Bacardi bottles. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/...971579048a.jpg Future home of the San Diego library - Nothing going on =( http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/...0aeb29fe67.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/...c64b2ff653.jpg Unfortunately, I think this is really it for the new construction. Things seemed to have really slowed down for now... |
Thanks for all the photo updates. Agreed on Smart Corner.
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IMO, it actually seems like things have been picking up a little bit...
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San Diego's certainly a wonderful, wonderful city. The new construction over the last 5-10 years has been simply astounding as well! There are a few problems, though.
1) Nearly all of the new construction has been hotel or residential, almost no commercial/office space. In other words, where the hell are people supposed to work? 2) The trolley doesn't connect up through Balboa Park. Huge issue, especially for tourists wanting to get to the museums and the zoo. Of course a huge issue for the locals as well! 3) The amount of for lease, for rent, and for sale signs is simply astounding, even in the Gaslamp environs, though predominately a block or two east of there. All of that being said, I was just in town for a whopping day and a half, and had a blast. Walked all over Gaslamp, Seaport Village, Horton Plaza, some of the rest of Downtown, etc... Also took the trolley to Old Town, and then saw the zoo the next morning. Stayed in an awesome hotel Saturday night (Hilton Gaslamp), talk about a great location! Aaron (Glowrock) |
There's a few commercial projects that haven't got off the ground yet. The big one being 700 W Broadway.
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Looking south on India St. from my balcony
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/...3b4248c598.jpg Looking north http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3479/...c3d3353222.jpg |
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Tourists do not make up a large portion of transit ridership. Nor do the presence of them make a transit line successful or not. Train lines are expensive and should be designed to carry the main market during periods of the day when congestion is at its peak times. That period of day is during commute times and the market includes employees and sometimes school kids; they each travel during the morning commute times. However, school transportation is seasonal. The zoo is an example. It's open 9am 'til sunset and attendance is influenced by the seasons of the year. I find it hard to take seriously any proposal to build a train line for the purpose of serving the zoo. If a line when up to Hillcrest/Mid-City or beyond, and served a sufficient number of commute period users... and happened to run by the zoo, we'd might have a winner. |
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http://www.lajollacapitalpartners.co...L-Downtown.jpg |
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Aaron (Glowrock) |
I think the best alignment would be to put the trolley line in the median of the 163 and then connecting into the existing green line at the Fashion Valley Mall thus making a loop. This would have a minimal impact on the existing uptown communities. Stops could be at The Prado, Robertson or University Ave., somewhere in the UCSD medical center area, and then at Hotel Circle, before connecting into the green line at the transit center.
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I don't think any trolley lines are going to be pushed through balboa or the upper neighborhoods. The bus system is actually pretty efficent in those areas, and I know because I take them to sdsu through there. Granted, something odd happens everyday. The other day a police officer shoved a drunken man on the bus saying the ride was "courtesy of Jerry Sanders". So I guess its best the tourists stay off our transit system.
The only way I could see a trolley running through those areas would be if they were underground. That would be a sight...and highly unlikely. |
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Aaron (Glowrock) |
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I have never understood the reasoning behind peoples desire to expand the light rail service to areas already serviced by city buses. The buses are most often not even close to full. The light rail never pays for itself and is not even close to capacity. Light rail systems are exponentially more expensive than buses. Proponents always point to some other city or foreign countries system and proclaim the potential for our city. Well we already have a system and it is a tax money sucking toy. Only children want more toys.
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Its not a toy. It moves people. you can't make more freeways so there is only one choice and that is to accommodate something other than the car, like your feet. its a matter of capacity. im sure you havent been on said buses to see how allegedly "empty" they are. light rail has a higher capacity and is immune to automobile traffic. sounds like a great deal. besides, the alignments under study are there to serve those without cars such as students at the universities and areas with nightlife that are crowded and driving is not an option if you drink. plus you may not believe this but people do commute on them even in this city. for your information, no public infrastructure and services pay for themselves. do the police forces pay for themselves? no. then why have them? they offer a service for a fee purely in tax dollars. freeways? a means to a destination. funded by: tax dollars. why would light rail be any different? its costs are merely supplemented by a fare no different than toll roads or gas tax.
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If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd run a line in a subway alignment from the Harbor/Gaslamp, up 5th or 6th Avenue... all the way up to University or Washington... then turn east toward I-15 or continue into Mission Valley. At Balboa Park, I could imagine a subway station at 6th/Laurel... providing a perfect nice walk into the park and museum area. Subway stations are looking very nice with recent designs. See these flickr images from bigbend700 of the LA Metro Soto station: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3126731...7622097195247/ Soto favorite: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2530/...5c6da2b282.jpg From Flickr, by bigbend700 LA Metro Mariachi station: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3126731...7622201234786/ My Mariachi favorite: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/...f6da684032.jpg. From Flickr, by bigbend700 Check out the LA Transportation thread on page 8; here... for more pics of the above. |
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Buy more buses. Problem solved. Class dismissed. |
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For the uninformed, light-rail costs less to operate on a per rider basis than buses.
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Feasibility/costs of rail in comparison to busing
Many on here don't seem to know much about the feasibility/costs of rail in comparison to busing. I work in transit oriented development for projects around the U.S. Here are just a few of the benefits:
1. Rail lines receive more passengers than the bus routes they replace. 2. Rail lines tracks are cheaper to maintain than the roadways they displace. 3. Buses, are susceptible to potholes and height irregularities in the pavement. Rail lines ride on smooth, jointless steel rails that rarely develop bumps. The maintenance is less for rail than replacing shocks/tires on buses. 4. Mapmakers include rail lines lines on their city maps, and almost never put any bus route in ink. New investment follows the lines on the map. TOD is extremely beneficial to bringing in tax dollars to the city. Development will follow a train station, but not a bus stop. Rails don't pick up and move any time soon. Once a rail system is in place, business and investors can count on them for decades. Buses come and go. 5. The upfront costs are higher for rail and higher than buses-but that is more than made up over time in lower operating and maintenance costs. In transit you get what you pay for. 6. Once purchased (albeit at high cost) rail liness are cheaper to maintain and last a whole lot longer (case in point, rail lines discarded in the US in the '40s, have been snapped up by the Yugoslavs, and are still running). Buses have a lifespan of 9-12 years. 7. Rail lines create more walkable streets. |
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I can't tell you how many ties I have been up in Hillcrest and have had too many to drink so I take a taxi home, I wished there were a trolley so that I had an alternative to that. |
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Curitiba's Bus System
Curitiba, Brazil, has a very nice bus system that is recognized by the planning and green community all over the world as a first-class model. The link below to an article is a good read. Plus, just do a Google search on Curitiba.
http://urbanhabitat.org/node/344 |
I work for UCSD's Shuttle Services and it's annoying to work as a dispatcher because we usually have about 5 break down each day lol.
By break down I mean they're still usable but it's recommended to take them off line for repairs. |
Based on my own experiences, the trolley line does feel safer, but by no means was it more dependable then the bus route I take now. They are about the same. Both have long waits at times. Both stop for one reason or another in the middle of rush hour. Both have loons annoying passangers. And if you're going to use transit anywhere in San Diego you have to be willing to give up large amounts of your time to use it. It goes against our instant mobility instincts we as San Diegans are used to with cars.
As for the coaster, its definetly more of a long distance commuter who rides. Your less likely to get a homeless man heading from Old Town to Oceanside then one whos trying to get from North Park to downtown. As to whoever proposes a subway line in this city, I'll be more then willing to pay an extra half-cent tax to get that done. There are only so many carpool lanes you can add to the five and fifteen before there isn't any space between the two freeways left... Can you imagine if all of our major freeways looked like the 5-805 merge? *shutter* |
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