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-   -   The Sky [845 Carling Ave] | 73/155/191m | 18/45/55f | Approved (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204605)

phil235 Apr 8, 2013 2:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa (Post 6082210)
I'd love to see a skyline develop at Blair Station/the Gloucester Centre. For some reason that area reminds me of the Scarborough City Centre/Scarborough Town Centre area in Toronto.

Are you saying that you would like to see a repeat of Scarborough Town Centre?

Harley613 Apr 8, 2013 3:09 PM

STC is pretty impressive these days...not as impressive as the Square One area in Mississauga though! I love the Absolute World towers.

kevinbottawa Apr 8, 2013 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil235 (Post 6082763)
Are you saying that you would like to see a repeat of Scarborough Town Centre?

I was more so saying I can see something similar happening, but I'd take a repeat of STC and the Scarborough City Centre over what's at Blair Station/Gloucester Centre now. Shopping mall, rapid transit (rail), regional commuter bus station, office buildings, YMCA, government offices, lots of condos, and some green space. Not bad.

eternallyme Apr 8, 2013 8:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok (Post 6082341)
Other than Lincoln Fields, Tunney's Pasture, Billings Bridge, South Keys, Hogsback, Lees, Hurdman, and probably a few others?

One in each of the three main suburbs - Place d'Orleans area, central Kanata and central Barrhaven?

Beedok Apr 8, 2013 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallyme (Post 6083255)
One in each of the three main suburbs - Place d'Orleans area, central Kanata and central Barrhaven?

Kanata has a few highrises under construction doesn't it?

JackBauer24 Apr 8, 2013 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok (Post 6083272)
Kanata has a few highrises under construction doesn't it?

A few highrises are proposed in Kanata (perhaps they have been approved, I haven't been following too closely), and a few retirement community buildings have recently been constructed. As for Orleans and BArrhaven - aside from the Petrie Island project in Orleans, I can't see a highrise going in either neighbourhood for some time.

Having a highrise in a suburban area is kind of counter-intuitive as to why highrises are built in the first place - generally people buy in the suburbs because you can get more bang for your buck (large home, larger yeard, etc...) but the negative is that stores/shops often aren't within walking distance. Living in a highrise in the suburbs means you would have no yard, smaller living space, limited ownership and you'd still have to jump in your car if you wanted to do anything.... I wouldn't understand the sales pitch of a suburban highrise.

Beedok Apr 8, 2013 9:14 PM

Barrhaven has those weird like five story giant house apartment things though.

Harley613 Apr 8, 2013 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok (Post 6083304)
Barrhaven has those weird like five story giant house apartment things though.

i have been looking for a way to describe these for a while...now i have it!!! :p

phil235 Apr 9, 2013 2:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa (Post 6083212)
I was more so saying I can see something similar happening, but I'd take a repeat of STC and the Scarborough City Centre over what's at Blair Station/Gloucester Centre now. Shopping mall, rapid transit (rail), regional commuter bus station, office buildings, YMCA, government offices, lots of condos, and some green space. Not bad.

Granted, I always made it my priority to spend as little time in Scarborough as humanly possible, but I've always thought of STC as one of those places that looks better from 5 km away than when you are actually in it.

It does have the elements of a decent place, but despite the transit links, it has all of the hallmarks of bad 70s design - 6-8 lane roads that are pedestrian nightmares, fortress-like condo developments that turn their backs to the street, and acres of surface parking. Nothing is scaled to people who aren't in cars. It's not really a place you'd want to spend much leisure time in, given the choice.

Gloucester Centre is certainly not any prize, but I'd rather see any intensification based on pedestrian spaces and links radiating from the transit station and serving CSIS, CSE and the business park across Blair.

McC Apr 10, 2013 1:15 PM

GJHall's last post in The Edge Thread reminded of something I'd meant to throw out for speculation:

The co-op apartments on Sidney St, (http://goo.gl/maps/aYLPx) is going to be set amongst arguably the highest-class condo towers in the city for years to come; it's the undefined rectangular properties shown at the end of the 25m radius arrow pointing northeast from Richcraft's north 48-storey tower in this image from www.westsideaction.com:
http://i2.wp.com/www.westsideaction....clustering.jpg

and it's in pretty sad sad shape; possibly to the point of weighing down the value of the area for future owners a tiny bit.

So the question for discussion: Would it (could it ever?) be worth the Rich and Mastercrafts while to team up to costshare and run the work themselves to give the co-op building a facelift; solely in the self-interest of making their buildings and the plaza look their best? Improvements could be a layer of parging, coat of paint and a sympathetic railing treatment for the balconies.

(c.f. the new smoked glass balcony enclosures that did wonders for the Stonecliffe at Bronson and Laurier, http://goo.gl/maps/ktGvr, it looks so good you don't even notice the flaking paint and crumbling concrete all around them; so maybe the paint and parging are overkill!).

What do y'all think?

kwoldtimer Apr 10, 2013 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McC (Post 6085381)
GJHall's last post in The Edge Thread reminded of something I'd meant to throw out for speculation:

The co-op apartments on Sidney St, (http://goo.gl/maps/aYLPx) is going to be set amongst arguably the highest-class condo towers in the city for years to come; it's the undefined rectangular properties shown at the end of the 25m radius arrow pointing northeast from Richcraft's north 48-storey tower in this image from www.westsideaction.com:
http://i2.wp.com/www.westsideaction....clustering.jpg

and it's in pretty sad sad shape; possibly to the point of weighing down the value of the area for future owners a tiny bit.

So the question for discussion: Would it (could it ever?) be worth the Rich and Mastercrafts while to team up to costshare and run the work themselves to give the co-op building a facelift; solely in the self-interest of making their buildings and the plaza look their best? Improvements could be a layer of parging, coat of paint and a sympathetic railing treatment for the balconies.

(c.f. the new smoked glass balcony enclosures that did wonders for the Stonecliffe at Bronson and Laurier, http://goo.gl/maps/ktGvr, it looks so good you don't even notice the flaking paint and crumbling concrete all around them; so maybe the paint and parging are overkill!).

What do y'all think?

I suppose anything is possible, but imo this seems unlikely. The developers would need to increase the cost of the condos to recoup the cost and in all likelihood the future purchasers of the condo units will have very little interest in what's on the street beyond their own buildings, as long as it doesn't interfere with their views. What I could perhaps see is that the new condos increase the values of the apartments (didn't realize it was a co-op) such that the owners are encouraged to renovate their own building.

McC May 10, 2013 5:18 PM

Application documents are now online: http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__9JHIKJ

H/T Centretown News

kevinbottawa May 10, 2013 6:28 PM

Quote:

‘A milestone of urbanization’

by Patrick Langston May 10, 2013 in Homes (Ottawa Citizen Style)

http://postmediaottawacitizen.files....ecinct_web.jpg

OTTAWA — It used to be a gas station. Now it will be a 45-storey condo tower.

Claridge’s Icon, approved last month by the city for the corner of Preston Street and Carling Avenue across from Dow’s Lake, is the latest symbol of the changes sweeping the area bounded roughly by Rochester Street to the east, Champagne Avenue South to the west, Carling Avenue to the south and the Queensway to the north. It includes part of Little Italy and bustling Preston Street.

There are, at last count, 10 highrise condo projects in this area at various stages of construction, planning or awaiting zoning or other municipal decisions.

That could increase depending on what happens with the plan for the area proposed by consultant George Dark and now wending its way through city hall. It recommends more mid- and highrise construction, including 40 storeys along Carling, 18 storeys along Rochester, more tall structures elsewhere, and up to six storeys along Preston.

It all constitutes what David Choo of Ashcroft Homes, which is building two towers on Champagne Avenue, calls Ottawa’s first “condo precinct” — a concentrated area of intense condominium development.

There are plenty of condos in the ByWard Market areas, but they’ve arrived slowly and are nothing like the 30-, 45- and more-storey buildings waiting to turn this well established area of mostly, although not exclusively, low-rise homes and businesses on its ear.

“Ottawa is emerging as an urbanized city,” says Choo. “It’s not that one precinct is important in itself; it’s that it’s a milestone of urbanization.”

A precinct like this fits the city’s densification drive, especially around transit hubs like the O-Train station at Carling near Preston.

Not surprisingly, many residents of the area are upset. They envisage a sea of highrises bringing noise, wind tunnels, shading, and traffic and parking nightmares. Others object on different grounds saying, for example, that densification can be achieved without a glut of highrises.

The Big Picture

Condos represent a shift in the way we live, says Choo, the desire among ever more people for a downtown, minimal-maintenance lifestyle. As a result, building height “should never be a parameter in zoning, only the results of height: densities, shadows cast by buildings.”

Ottawa should “embrace” changes like those happening in the Preston Street area, he says.

Architecture critic Rhys Phillips says projects like Icon “verge on the bizarre” when developments like Blatchford, a brownfield development for 30,000 people being planned for Edmonton’s largely defunct municipal airport, show how a mix of row house and low- to mid-rise buildings produces intensification without highrises.

Phillips worries that “you lose contact with the street as soon as you’re above about six storeys. People just come down and get in their cars.” He contrasts that with low-rise areas like the Glebe, where residents are attached to the neighbourhood and spend time on the streets.

Dark, however, says a percentage of the population likes the panoramic views and other aspects of highrise living. “It’s one way of building; cities have them.”

In fact, highrises seem to be self-fertilizing. No sooner did Claridge get the city’s nod on Icon than Mastercraft Starwood, which last year had to scale back its SoHo Italia on Hickory Street to 30 storeys from 35 to get city approval, was back at the municipality’s door with a request that is now making the rounds of the bureaucracy to increase the tower to 35 storeys.

Richcraft, meanwhile, is touting the possibility of two 48-storey towers and a smaller one on Carling just west of Preston where Dow Honda currently operates.

In a side note, the city’s planning department recently recommended capping buildings at 27 storeys along Lyon, Kent, Metcalfe and O’Connor streets, bringing those streets into line with height restrictions elsewhere in Centretown.

Word on the Street

“Some are embracing tall towers at the end of Preston Street as a reasonable concession. It won’t damage the fabric of the neighbourhood,” says Michael Powell, president of the Dalhousie Community Association.

However, he says that Dark’s proposal for nine-storey towers and a new road (Dark calls it a “mews”) along the O-Train tracks just west of Preston are a “red line that we don’t want to cross” because the surrounding, narrow streets couldn’t support the increased traffic.

Somerset Ward Councillor Diane Holmes, who has accepted towers on Carling but wants to protect the low-rise environment north of there, opposes both the nine-storey towers and mews.

Counters Shawn Malhotra, vice-president of Claridge, “The city talked about intensification for years, and some day this had to become a reality. You’re going to lose some low-rise feel.”

Lori Mellor of the Preston Street Business Improvement Area says her association is pro-development but worries about how it’s being done. She’s concerned, for example, that homeowners finding a skyscraper suddenly sprouting beside them might neglect their property, figuring it has lost value as a single-family home anyway.

She also worries that young families who have moved into the area and helped revive it will exit when they see an army of tall towers marching through their community.

Design

Tall towers, say developers, are an opportunity to shine architecturally. The extra square footage means enough revenue to splurge on design, while the height allows interesting shapes like the undulating balconies of the most recently proposed 35-storey SoHo Italia.

Phillips slams such buildings. Referring to Icon, which has some similar balconies, he says “It’s an elongated shoebox. They’ve learned to make them sexy by adding undulating balconies.”

Set far enough back on a ground-level podium, however — he gives Minto’s UpperWest tower in Westboro as an example — Phillips says towers can be less overwhelming.

Elephants and Other Issues

At present there’s an absence of grocery stores and other services in the Preston Street area. That doesn’t jibe with densification’s goals that include walkable neighbourhoods.

Dark, however, says that population increases can also increase the range of local services.

Some worry that intense development will inflate land prices, ultimately putting new projects even further out of the financial reach of many potential homeowners.

The real elephant in the room, not just in the Preston Street area but throughout Ottawa, is how much of a market there is for all these condo units.

The 10 buildings on the accompanying map alone amount to roughly 2,000 units. That’s a lot of selling in a market that’s slowed considerably over the last year.

People like John Herbert, executive director of the Greater Ottawa Home Builders’ Association, have expressed concern that large numbers of baby boomers may not actually want to abandon suburbia for downtown condo living as has been predicted.

Domicile’s David Chick echoes other developers in saying he has confidence in the Ottawa condo market. “We’ve been weathering the storm of a lot of negative (economic) news. We’re still trucking along.”

Quotables:

“Point towers traditionally are beautiful buildings. When you have short, stumpy buildings there’s only so much you can do.” — Shawn Malhotra, Vice-president, Claridge Homes

“What kind of cross-section are we getting? Empty nesters and likely single professionals. Anyone in between, it’s not going to happen.” — Stanley Wilder, Planner, City of Ottawa

“There’s lots of intensification along Rochester and Carling. Leave us the four-storeys. You don’t have to ruin everything.” — Diane Holmes, Councillor, Somerset Ward

“Demographics are shifting significantly in Canada, and it’s more than just everyone aspiring to live in a house.” — George Dark, Urban design consultant to the City of Ottawa

“It’s all about getting balance in the neighbourhood.” — Lori Mellor, Executive director, Preston Street Business Improvement Area
http://www.ottawacitizenstyle.com/ca...-urbanization/

McC May 10, 2013 6:40 PM

Q: any ideas/guesses why the CIBC (and only the CIBC) is shown in the site plan and all of the floorplans?

eternallyme May 10, 2013 10:19 PM

Since it appears the high-tech industry is coming back, some of these secondary centres should be targeted for their development as well (i.e. office space that does not require manufacturing). Downtown Ottawa is probably at full build-out so the jobs will likely have to go to the secondary areas.

Beedok May 10, 2013 10:50 PM

I hope that someon builds two or three highrises between Carling and Downtown to connect the two skylines. That would be nice.

eternallyme May 11, 2013 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok (Post 6123862)
I hope that someon builds two or three highrises between Carling and Downtown to connect the two skylines. That would be nice.

Perhaps the Federal Government and private sector can build more towers in the Bronson Avenue to Booth Street area parallel to the 417, maybe?

The CBD is pretty much built-up, and I would like to see a moratorium on new towers taller than the face of the Peace Tower clock there anyway.

Definition of CBD: from the O-Train tracks to the Rideau River and north of Highway 417

J.OT13 May 12, 2013 7:00 PM

Skylines will connect with the Lebreton Flats/Bayview developments. Booth complex depends on the height; I'm not sure they will allow 30+.

The current CBD parking lots (PdV IV, Syandard Life III, BMO II...) as well as the parking lots west of Lyon (Claridge and Broccolini lots...) can likely fit (with current zoning restrictions) another 4 million square feet, so about a 10% increase from the current available office space. If you factor in re-developments (Ottawa tech, Podium building, Jackson Building, Copeland and AT&T Buildings, Bell switching building (please move that giant ugly block out of Downtown)...) likely another 4 million of added space. That is without factoring in a bit of leniency on height restriction (+ office space ), residential apartment and condo developments (- office space) and possible hotels/casino (- office space).

With Hull, Tunney's, Booth Complex and the Bayview-Lebreton axis, we have plenty of room for multiple secondary CBDs.

drawarc May 12, 2013 9:11 PM

Building heights (to top of mechanical penthouse):

Phase I and Phase II: 166.2m

Phase III: 77.3 meters

This would make the 50 tallest proposals list in the Canada section.

m0nkyman May 12, 2013 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drawarc (Post 6125569)
Building heights (to top of mechanical penthouse):

Phase I and Phase II: 166.2m

Phase III: 77.3 meters

This would make the 50 tallest proposals list in the Canada section.

It's kind of depressing that Canada's fourth largest city has not had a building in the top fifty proposals...


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