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-   -   Local: S.A. to discuss ways to lure pro franchises (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=122986)

tmathis Feb 1, 2007 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraeSlab713 (Post 2601397)
Would be nice, but the NFL family ripped Jacksonville when it hosted the Super Bowl. San Antonio and Jacksonville both have rivers, and metro areas are about the same size.

Jacksonville is Jacksonville, San Antonio is San Antonio. And the NFL never ripped Jacksonville it was the media and they did not rip it because of its metro population size. They ripped it because they said it was boring (the atmosphere & events) leading up to the Superbowl.

bresilhac Feb 9, 2007 2:52 AM

NFL in San Antonio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by discojames (Post 2601386)
I really like the look and location of the Alamodome and would hate to see it replaced by a new stadium since it is less than 15 years old. Does it have the interior space that with the right amount of money it can be brought to NFL standards by adding the requisite number of suites, club seating, upgraded video and sound, and possibly additional seating bringing capacity closer to 70,000? San Antonio is already top tier for Men's and Women's Final Four NCAA basketball so I could see it easily becoming a premier Super Bowl city should a team ever relocate or a franchise is awarded to the city. I would love to see the ESPN Sportscenter team reporting from the Arneson River Theater during Super Bowl week.

I agree that sounds pretty nice. But first things first we must land an NFL team. Along those lines I believe it is inevitable that San Antonio will get a team by or before 2012. Whether it's by expansion or relocation remains the only question. As you mentioned the Alamodome can easily be refurbished to today's modern NFL standards and with the shear size of the metro area filling up the Dome eight or ten times a season would be no problem. The most important thing going in our favor now is that there is a new commissioner. Tagliabue was dead set against San Antonio getting a team under any circumstances. Goodell seems much more amenable to the idea of locating a team here. What bugs me is why has it taken so long for San Antonio to be considered a prime candidate for a team? I guess I answered my own question. Tagliabue.

Trae Feb 9, 2007 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBTX11 (Post 2601733)
Correct. SA has a WAY bigger metro area than Jacksonville. SA's metro is nearly 2 million (1,889,797 as of last year), while Jacksonville's is barely over 1.2 million. Jax is smaller than Austin, for that matter. SA metro is bigger than the following city metros: Jacksonville, Memphis, New Orleans, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, and others

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...opolitan_areas

20 Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater FL 2,647,658
21 San Juan–Caguas–Guaynabo PR 2,509,007
22 Pittsburgh PA 2,386,074
23 Denver–Aurora CO 2,359,994
24 Cleveland–Elyria–Mentor OH 2,126,318
25 Portland–Vancouver–Beaverton OR–WA 2,095,861
26 Cincinnati–Middletown OH–KY–IN 2,070,441
27 Sacramento–Arden-Arcade–Roseville CA 2,042,283
28 Kansas City MO–KS 1,947,694
29 Orlando-Kissimmee FL 1,933,255
30 San Antonio TX 1,889,797
31 San Jose–Sunnyvale–Santa Clara CA 1,754,988
32 Las Vegas–Paradise-Henderson NV 1,710,551
33 Columbus OH 1,708,625
34 Virginia Beach–Norfolk–Newport News VA–NC 1,647,346
35 Indianapolis–Carmel IN 1,640,591 36 Providence–New Bedford–Fall River RI–MA 1,622,520
37 Charlotte–Gastonia–Concord NC–SC 1,521,278
38 Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis WI 1,512,855

39 Austin–Round Rock TX 1,452,529
40 Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro TN 1,422,544
41 New Orleans–Metairie–Kenner LA 1,319,367
42 Memphis TN–MS–AR 1,260,950
43 Jacksonville FL 1,248,371
44 Louisville–Jefferson County KY–IN 1,208,452
45 Hartford–West Hartford–East Hartford CT 1,188,241
46 Richmond VA 1,175,654
47 Oklahoma City OK 1,156,812
48 Buffalo–Niagara Falls NY 1,147,711 49 Birmingham–Hoover AL 1,090,126
50 Rochester NY 1,039,028

Charlotte feels so much bigger than San Antonio, especially in urban development. Same with New Orleans, too.

Also, San Jose? I don't know how one boulevard can separate San Francisco-Oakland from San Jose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Statistical_Area

NBTX11 Feb 9, 2007 10:56 PM

Feeling doesn't really have anything to do with it. Population does. And the fact is, SA metro has more population that both some NFL cities, and cities with 2 or more professional franchises. Media Market size not withstanding. AND that doesn't even include Austin. I wonder how many of these NFL cities around SA's size have an Austin sized city just a stone's throw away? Funny they never seem to mention the fact there is another huge metro just one hour away from SA.

Schertz1 Feb 9, 2007 11:58 PM

I grew up in North Carolina and Charlotte does not seem as urban as San Antonio. There are, however, more high-rise buildings in their CBD. Last I remember, Charlotte had several dirt roads-not alleys- within the city limits only 10 to 15 years ago. New Orleans also only has a larger CBD. NO is also quick to point out Baton Rouge and Mississippi also support us. When you take the two together, BR and pre-katrina NO, they are about the size of San Antonio.

The San Antonio/Austin area has over 3.5 million people according to some estimates. Approaching 4 million without including the valley or Corpus Christi, is quite a market. The 1.89 million is a 2005 estimate for San Antonio.

texastarkus Feb 10, 2007 1:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schertz1 (Post 2622717)
I grew up in North Carolina and Charlotte does not seem as urban as San Antonio. There are, however, more high-rise buildings in their CBD. Last I remember, Charlotte had several dirt roads-not alleys- within the city limits only 10 to 15 years ago. New Orleans also only has a larger CBD. NO is also quick to point out Baton Rouge and Mississippi also support us. When you take the two together, BR and pre-katrina NO, they are about the size of San Antonio.

The San Antonio/Austin area has over 3.5 million people according to some estimates. Approaching 4 million without including the valley or Corpus Christi, is quite a market. The 1.89 million is a 2005 estimate for San Antonio.


Don't bank on support from Austin. Remember a few years back when your town leaders tried to steal our arena football team? I do and I'm sure the sports community will, too.

Trae Feb 10, 2007 1:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBTX11 (Post 2622590)
Feeling doesn't really have anything to do with it. Population does. And the fact is, SA metro has more population that both some NFL cities, and cities with 2 or more professional franchises. Media Market size not withstanding. AND that doesn't even include Austin. I wonder how many of these NFL cities around SA's size have an Austin sized city just a stone's throw away? Funny they never seem to mention the fact there is another huge metro just one hour away from SA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schertz1 (Post 2622717)
I grew up in North Carolina and Charlotte does not seem as urban as San Antonio. There are, however, more high-rise buildings in their CBD. Last I remember, Charlotte had several dirt roads-not alleys- within the city limits only 10 to 15 years ago. New Orleans also only has a larger CBD. NO is also quick to point out Baton Rouge and Mississippi also support us. When you take the two together, BR and pre-katrina NO, they are about the size of San Antonio.

The San Antonio/Austin area has over 3.5 million people according to some estimates. Approaching 4 million without including the valley or Corpus Christi, is quite a market. The 1.89 million is a 2005 estimate for San Antonio.

Charlotte does seem more urban than San Antonio. Just go look at some of the projects going up in its CBD + Uptown.

How are you going to include Corpus Christi and the Valley into San Antonio's market? Both of those places are far away from San Antonio. SA also doesn't have as much disposable income as some of those cities with two pro-teams. Add in Austin, then it probably does. San Antonio-Austin has close to 3.5 million, not over it (if you just add in the metro numbers). Almost 300,000 less actually. Media market is what counts. I don't know how many cities have a metro like Austin a stone's throw away from their own market, you tell me because I can't think of one.

If the Saints could not fully work when they game (some buyouts because games did not sell out), what makes you think they could do it again?

bresilhac Feb 10, 2007 4:33 AM

NFL in San Antonio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TraeSlab713 (Post 2622809)
Charlotte does seem more urban than San Antonio. Just go look at some of the projects going up in its CBD + Uptown.

How are you going to include Corpus Christi and the Valley into San Antonio's market? Both of those places are far away from San Antonio. SA also doesn't have as much disposable income as some of those cities with two pro-teams. Add in Austin, then it probably does. San Antonio-Austin has close to 3.5 million, not over it (if you just add in the metro numbers). Almost 300,000 less actually. Media market is what counts. I don't know how many cities have a metro like Austin a stone's throw away from their own market, you tell me because I can't think of one.

If the Saints could not fully work when they game (some buyouts because games did not sell out), what makes you think they could do it again?

Corpus Christi, the Valley and Austin will all be included in San Antonio's NFL market. Just like San Antonio and Austin are apart of Dallas' market now. And 300 miles separate Dallas from San Antonio. And disposable income would not be a problem either. When you include all of the aformentioned area's people, filing up a stadium would present no problems. And do you actually believe that Jacksonville, Nashville or Buffalo are richer than San Antonio? Hardly. And comparing the attendance figures of the three Saints games in San Antonio to what will happen when the NFL comes to town permanantly is a poor example. The Saints have next to no local fanbase here, the tickets were marketed and sold in an impromptu manner when all other teams are given the benefit of a full off-season to sell tickets, and the opponents faced weren't exactly marquee teams to see. Even with all of that the games were sellouts given a nominal amount of corporate support. Which actually is a good thing. When the NFL comes to San Antonio permanantly it will be completely different. The organization will have ample time to market itself to the city and region.

Trae Feb 10, 2007 4:59 AM

San Antonio is not included in Dallas' market. If that was the case, I guess the Valley, El Paso, and Shreveport are too?

It is not a bad example. If San Antonio really wanted to show the NFL that they could support a team, they would have sold out the stadium, regardless. Just look at OKC last year when the Hornets came. So many games were played in that arena, and almost all were sold out. A lot harder than three NFL games.

I guess the Falcons weren't marquee. The Bills aren't too bad, but I can understand the Lions.

NBTX11 Feb 10, 2007 5:09 AM

We averaged 63K in a 65K stadium, so they were basically sellouts. This with no time to market games. If I remember correctly they only had a couple weeks to sell tix to the first game. Not a whole year like other teams. Not bad for supporting someone else's team. SA would tremendously support thier own franchise.

Also, SA metro is now 1.9 mil (at least) Austin is 1.5 roughly, total is 3.4 mil (at least, probably more by now).

Trae Feb 10, 2007 5:25 AM

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ss...int083787.html

SAN ANTONIO – The Saints fell 10,800 tickets short of their goal of selling out their Alamodome debut against the Buffalo Bills by Thursday at noon.

The deadline became a moot point Thursday when the NFL announced that local television blackout rules would not apply to the three Saints games played in San Antonio this year.

kornbread Feb 10, 2007 5:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texastarkus (Post 2622783)
Don't bank on support from Austin. Remember a few years back when your town leaders tried to steal our arena football team? I do and I'm sure the sports community will, too.

Arena football is about the equivalent of the WNBA. I don't remember this and seriously doubt it ever happened. I'm sure Arena football is still looking to expand...willingly.:koko:

Town..er city leaders actively involved in trying to lure an arena football team? That's like having a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a Stein-Mart

Most people could care less about arena football. Most of the sports community could care less about arena football. Most arena football players could care less about arena football. Please tell me that you're kidding:jester:

This may be the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. It has to be. I couldn't imagine a worse one or my head would explode. The Austin battle cry: "Remember our Arena football team" You sure it wasn't Round Rock?

If SA ever got an NFL team (and that's a big IF) I'm sure Austin NFL fans would make the trip to see a game if their favorite player or team was playing. "Wow, I only have to drive 80 miles to see my favorite team play. But I'm not going because they tried to take away our ARENA FOOTBALL TEAM. Long live the boycott!" Unbelievable!

Unless a team is truly regional (like between San Marcos & New Braunfels), you'd better depend on your own city for support. Would people from SA support an Austin NFL team? About as much as Austin supports the Spurs. It's there, but you can't depend on the support to be that strong.

Trae Feb 10, 2007 5:46 AM

That is why I am laughing at the "Corpus Chrisit and the Valley" statements. Would people really do that (make the two-four hour trip)?

kornbread Feb 10, 2007 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bresilhac (Post 2623169)
...And do you actually believe that Jacksonville, Nashville or Buffalo are richer than San Antonio? Hardly. And comparing the attendance figures of the three Saints games in San Antonio to what will happen when the NFL comes to town permanantly is a poor example.

I'm not sure how you really measure that. You only need to sell 60-100k tickets per game. The economies of Nashville and Jacksonville are doing well (not sure about Buffalo).

I think the selling of tickets to the Saints games is a legitimate example. When else would the city get the chance to show what kind of support it will bring? This was a chance to make an impression, not make excuses.

If all the games soldout as soon tickets were available, I'm sure it would be held out as a triumph and not a poor example. You can't have it both ways. Is this going to prevent SA from getting team? Maybe not, but I bet it will influence those considering the viability of expansion to the city.

kornbread Feb 10, 2007 6:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraeSlab713 (Post 2623289)
That is why I am laughing at the "Corpus Chrisit and the Valley" statements. Would people really do that (make the two-four hour trip)?

Of course they would. People from SA and Austin travel up to Dallas to see the cowboys and to Houston to see the stadium. These few visitors will not boost attendance figures.

I think what they were really trying to point out was that those markets could be considered part of SA's TV market. An SA team's games would be shown over Dallas or Houston. Those local markets might get some say in that. I'm not really sure how the NFL handles that.

Trae Feb 10, 2007 6:21 AM

I don't think that San Antonio would have an easy time getting TV market away from the smaller metros around Texas. Cowboys rule in Austin (well Titans now), and the Valley has many Texans fans.

KevinFromTexas Feb 10, 2007 6:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraeSlab713 (Post 2623289)
That is why I am laughing at the "Corpus Chrisit and the Valley" statements. Would people really do that (make the two-four hour trip)?

I can say one thing about ties between Corpus Christi and San Antonio. I remember going down to Port Aransas, (suburb of Corpus Christi), on fishing trips with my family and always hearing the park ranger saying that most of the tourists to Corpus Christi and Port Aransas come from San Antonio. They'd always ask where folks were from and we'd tell them Austin and they'd always mention how most of their tourists, (atleast there in the RV park), were from San Antonio. The two cities are only 150 miles apart and are connected by I-37. It's not that far of a stretch to drive that far for a vacation on the beach. Considering how dedicated some people are with sports it wouldn't surprise me to hear of them driving to San Antonio from Corpus Christi. I also frequent another forum, the RGV Forum, (Rio Grande Valley), and many of the people on there visit San Antonio often.

kornbread Feb 10, 2007 6:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraeSlab713 (Post 2623346)
I don't think that San Antonio would have an easy time getting TV market away from the smaller metros around Texas. Cowboys rule in Austin (well Titans now), and the Valley has many Texans fans.

Loyalty wise, I would agree. But I'm not sure how the networks decide who they will show.

The Valley roots for the Texans? Damn, they must be hardcore football fans. Austin abandoned them for Vince Young.

Trae Feb 10, 2007 3:14 PM

Yeah the Valley. I belong to a Houston Texans board and we have many people from the Valley. Last year that got barely any Texans games. This year, they got all 16 (or close), because many people down there emailed and phoned one of the TV stations (don't remember which one).

BSofA04 Feb 10, 2007 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraeSlab713 (Post 2623252)
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ss...int083787.html

SAN ANTONIO – The Saints fell 10,800 tickets short of their goal of selling out their Alamodome debut against the Buffalo Bills by Thursday at noon.

The deadline became a moot point Thursday when the NFL announced that local television blackout rules would not apply to the three Saints games played in San Antonio this year.

WOW! Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to write articles. The game vs. the Bills had 58,688 fans (6,312 less than the normal capacity of 65,000). The game against the Falcons and Lions had 65,562 (overflow) and 63,747 respectively. That comes out to 22,300 more fans per game in San Antonio than in Baton Rouge for an approximate average of 63,000. Sounds like the NO media tried to downplayed the actual figures for some unknown reason.:rolleyes: We won’t go there.


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