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-   -   SAN ANTONIO │ San Pedro Creek │ 2-Mile Redevelopment │ Under Construction (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=205660)

Fireoutofclay Aug 11, 2015 6:06 PM

As someone who has pretty much been waiting for development of San Pedro Creek his whole life, I am downright giddy with excitement over this. When I was a child, my mother would walk me from LaFeria (now Goodwill) to the Kress on Houston (now Texas de Brazil), and I would pass the creek believing that it was a man-made drainage ditch. Later in life I would find out its historical significance. I was dumbfounded that this unremarkable, neglected eyesore was a huge catalyst for the creation of what would be our city. And the only indication of its historical significance (for those who were unaware of any) was a single marker on Houston Street (although I believe a few more have since been added).

I find the design to be very smart, considerate of the the fact that at times much of it will be under water during flooding. Cleaning up the aftermath of a flood will be a fact of life for a downtown flood channel (even with the tunnel). And yes, although I would like to see this or that done a little differently, these 6 areas covering the 2 mile linear park leave plenty of room for future public artwork/architecture integration. And I do hope that the development has a continuing link to San Pedro Park in its future.

What a great 300th Birthday present, a timely development of a waterway that helped to create this city.

Restless 1 Aug 11, 2015 10:50 PM

My last post on this. Feel free to have the last word.
 
Otherwise, you'll have to take my word for it. My word coming from the fact that I have friends and acquaintances who are involved in commercial real estate development in downtown and the urban core. I also have a pretty good understanding of the downtown market and have so for the past 8 or so years.

It's not the HDRC. Not even a little bit.


First, you're not the only one who knows people, nor has an interest in the urban core, so you knock that fallacious argument off now.

Second, if you seriously think the added bureaucratic BS added to making things happen downtown that the HDRC creates, along with added costs to construction, (just to get a friendly nod from the HDRC), and the uncertainty this process adds has no bearing on DT development, you are either ignorant or a damned fool.

Go ask the major players in this city why their HQ's are not DT, (read Valero, Tesoro, NuStar...).

kornbread Aug 12, 2015 3:23 AM

It would be interesting to hear why some companies located where they did. Of those you listed:

Valero was downtown and moved to a building on St Mary's and McAllister Fwy. They merged with Diamond Shamrock who had been up on I10 and was building a campus on 1604. It made sense to move where they had the office space and room to expand.

Tesoro was north off 410, then off of McAllister and decided to locate where the majority of their workforce was (north).

I believe NuStar, a Valero spin-off, decided to locate near the mother ship. I think there is still a chance they could eventually re-locate again.

Whataburger took Tesoro's old space, probably because it fit what they were looking for since much of the office space downtown was converted to hotels.

USAA is adding 1000 to their workforce and needed space. Apparently they were shown downtown options but decided on space near the main office. They did move about 200 or so downtown to a building they purchased.

I would say in each of these cases HDRC was a non-factor. None had proposals that were abandoned. It was more the overall nature of doing business in San Antonio and downtown.

Are there costs tied to going before a review board and meeting guidelines? Of course, not unique to San Antonio. Are there considerations and costs associated with preservation? Sure. Again, not unique to San Antonio, but not something every city places an importance on.

I'm in favor of design review as long as it is smart and helps create a good environment/experience. That's really problem with HDRC. Overall, their decisions can be criticized more than praised. They seem to go by a silly checklist and have failed to protect buildings of significance and fought battles that amount to pittance.

Oh yeah, and this is way off-topic. :runaway: But we are posting:tup:

sirkingwilliam Aug 12, 2015 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless 1 (Post 7125943)
Otherwise, you'll have to take my word for it. My word coming from the fact that I have friends and acquaintances who are involved in commercial real estate development in downtown and the urban core. I also have a pretty good understanding of the downtown market and have so for the past 8 or so years.

It's not the HDRC. Not even a little bit.


First, you're not the only one who knows people, nor has an interest in the urban core, so you knock that fallacious argument off now.

Second, if you seriously think the added bureaucratic BS added to making things happen downtown that the HDRC creates, along with added costs to construction, (just to get a friendly nod from the HDRC), and the uncertainty this process adds has no bearing on DT development, you are either ignorant or a damned fool.

Go ask the major players in this city why their HQ's are not DT, (read Valero, Tesoro, NuStar...).

I'm dropping this with you because it's obvious no amount of logic and common sense is going to change your opinion.

wwmiv Aug 12, 2015 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam (Post 7126387)
I'm dropping this with you because it's obvious no amount of logic and common sense is going to change your opinion.

We feel the same way about you, darling.

NOLAmike Aug 12, 2015 2:35 PM

Tech Bloc Commentary on San Pedro Creek
 
Yesterday I went to the Tech Bloc event where they had a guest speaker, Robert Hammond, who spoke about the high line in New York City and had a lot of comments about the San Pedro Creek. One of the things he mentioned is that they were generally wary of big architectural moments for the high line because they feel that it is more of a tourist draw, while a focus on landscaping tends to attract locals to come more regularly. He also suggested having no permanent Art, but rather art that changes yearly. He said that way the art can continue to attract people, not have individual pieces define the creek, and there can be a wider variety. I thought they were interesting, relevant comments.

http://www.expressnews.com/business/...ds-6438579.php

Restless 1 Aug 12, 2015 2:48 PM

kornbread
 
I would say in each of these cases HDRC was a non-factor. None had proposals that were abandoned. It was more the overall nature of doing business in San Antonio and downtown.

Perhaps, and perhaps the prospect of dealing with HDRC meant no proposal for DT was ever in the working.

SKW:

You have posted nothing logical.

http://tpr.org/post/historic-and-des...oskes-building

Where is that Joske's tower again? How did the Grand Hyatt end up with the design it has, when nearly everyone on this board favored a previous design proposal? How many times has Cattleman's Square had to go back to them?

Not to mention the perpetual beige DT we all lament.

Not saying everything they do is bad, or that we are the only city to go through this, but to say they are not a factor at all is plain foolishness.

Fireoutofclay Aug 12, 2015 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOLAmike (Post 7126504)
He also suggested having no permanent Art, but rather art that changes yearly. He said that way the art can continue to attract people, not have individual pieces define the creek, and there can be a wider variety. I thought they were interesting, relevant comments.

http://www.expressnews.com/business/...ds-6438579.php

Agreed. It would be a great place to showcase local art, perhaps by coordinating a rotating series with other entities like the Botanical Gardens, McNay & SAMA. There could be a Fiesta or Fall event created to showcase Texan artists. Also Centro San Antonio has been working on a Program for street performers. We can take that program to the creek. Ooooh, how cool would it be to bring in Gondoliers with pimped out Gondolas cruising past Little Italy singing a fusion of Spanish German Italian songs.

jaga185 Aug 12, 2015 9:10 PM


Sean1187 Aug 13, 2015 3:48 PM

I am sad they scaled back on the Salinas bridge. That was one of my favorite renderings.

jaga185 Aug 13, 2015 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean1187 (Post 7127984)
I am sad they scaled back on the Salinas bridge. That was one of my favorite renderings.

Me too! I really liked that structure. I feel like that could have still worked.

Fireoutofclay Aug 13, 2015 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean1187 (Post 7127984)
I am sad they scaled back on the Salinas bridge. That was one of my favorite renderings.

I agree. The weave piece was spot on.

from
Commentary: Flood of Discussion Crests at San Pedro Creek Meeting
Don Mathis
Rivard Report
on 10 August, 2015 at 00:28

http://www.therivardreport.com/comme...creek-meeting/
Quote:

Plans for the San Pedro Creek are still evolving. The first shovel of dirt has yet to be dug. Plans for the creek will dovetail with plans for the new Frost Bank building and Federal Courthouse which are still on the drawing board. The San Pedro Creek improvements design is not yet set in stone.

Participation, communication, education, and involvement. If these components can come together, we will have more than a decorated ditch. We will have a public area that links neighborhoods, that joins culture, that promotes history, that provides a place to play, one that enriches our daily lives.
Who knows what we'll end up with, just happy that it is still moving forward.

sirkingwilliam Aug 14, 2015 3:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless 1 (Post 7126518)
I would say in each of these cases HDRC was a non-factor. None had proposals that were abandoned. It was more the overall nature of doing business in San Antonio and downtown.

Perhaps, and perhaps the prospect of dealing with HDRC meant no proposal for DT was ever in the working.

SKW:

You have posted nothing logical.

http://tpr.org/post/historic-and-des...oskes-building

Where is that Joske's tower again? How did the Grand Hyatt end up with the design it has, when nearly everyone on this board favored a previous design proposal? How many times has Cattleman's Square had to go back to them?

Not to mention the perpetual beige DT we all lament.

Not saying everything they do is bad, or that we are the only city to go through this, but to say they are not a factor at all is plain foolishness.

It's obvious you're very young. The concept isn't hard to get. A developer will not let having to deal with the HDRC keep them from building.

Will the HDRC deny a project causing the developer to abandoned the project, sure. It has happened in some causes.

Josie's was one of those causes but that developer still wants to build on the joske building.

Aside from that one example, which doesn't even prove your claim, what other high profile or non high profile project has the HDRC denied and then had the developer abandoned said project?

There's really only one thing that developers care about. Money.

That is what decides whether they're going to build a high rise. Not the HDRC.

Does their investment make sense? Will the project make them a return on said investment? It's a money game. Not a "I don't want to deal with the HDRC" issue. The economics have to work for the developer.

As for the beige color, that as well has nothing to do with the HDRC either.

Fireoutofclay Aug 14, 2015 2:27 PM

Guys I'd very much like this thread to stay on topic. I'm really interested in this project and don't enjoy having to search through all this unrelated tit for tat just to find an entry regarding it. There is an off topic thread now, ironically created by sirkingwilliam, and I would really appreciate it if you guys or gals moved your conversation to that thread. Thank you.

Fireoutofclay Aug 14, 2015 2:30 PM

San Pedro Creek Project / Muñoz and Company, Jorge Rodriquez-Gerada
 
So cool. Good commentary.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNQVvwdzxFI

Restless 1 Aug 14, 2015 8:57 PM

Skw
 
Reply posted here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...36#post7129936

Sorry Fire.

Fireoutofclay Aug 28, 2015 4:50 PM

mySpy: A day at San Pedro Springs Park
July 26, 2015 |Kody Melton
mysa.com

http://www.mysanantonio.com/entertai...to-8365147.php

A connecting link taking the creek walkway to San Pedro Park would be wonderful! Just imagine taking a leisure stroll or bike ride along the creek a mile north to one of the oldest parks in the nation. I hope someone is considering this for the future...

Fireoutofclay Aug 28, 2015 5:06 PM

Planning a New Park for San Antonio
Text by Tim McKeough | Images courtesy of Lake|Flato Architects
Architectural Digest
May 27, 2015

http://www.architecturaldigest.com/b...rk-san-antonio

A connecting link taking the creek walkway to Confluence Park would be wonderful! Just imagine taking a leisure stroll or bike ride along the creek a 2 miles south to the newest park. I hope someone is considering this for the future...

Ok ok, maybe I should just be happy with what's going on now. I'm just sayin...

Spoiler Aug 29, 2015 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireoutofclay (Post 7145735)

A connecting link taking the creek walkway to Confluence Park would be wonderful! Just imagine taking a leisure stroll or bike ride along the creek a 2 miles south to the newest park. I hope someone is considering this for the future...

Ok ok, maybe I should just be happy with what's going on now. I'm just sayin...

That's the plan.

Fireoutofclay Aug 31, 2015 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoiler (Post 7146350)
That's the plan.

:ohyeah


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