San Antonio Spurs Arena and Missions Baseball Stadium Downtown
I thought this would be a fun thread to discuss possible sites for this sports complex downtown.
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https://www.expressnews.com/business...y-18177478.php |
Bringing this over from the previous discussion:
A win-win would be to move the Institute of Texan Cultures somewhere that takes up less land. It's something they've considered anyway, so maybe the Spurs/city could help finance the move as part of an agreement to use the land. Hell, maybe even incorporate a new museum design into the arena project so it's right there for sports fans to easily discover and visit. Have mandatory promotions at Spurs games as well to encourage people to check it out. Ad space on the electronic signs and have the announcer mention it before games/at halftime. Originally Posted by forward looking: "I know and agree that a museum- stadium complex is, a rather odd couple of venues. A bunch of tipsy sportsfans enjoying historical museum exhibits put together by a bunch of very sober, nerdy, university professors. This could happen.... Maybe the museum must go, but I never disliked its' "Apelike" design very much at all." Attendance at the ITC is never going to increase much, especially by tipsy sports fans. It's a boring place to visit. But having its new home paid for by a Spurs/city PPP would check all the boxes to make a new arena happen on the current huge piece of property taken up by this sparsely attended museum. |
I didn't realize that piece of property could fit an NBA arena, a baseball stadium, and shops, bars, and restaurants. I've read that there is some land near the Pearl as well, but not sure exactly where that would be.
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The San Antonio Spurs, their future suddenly brighter after landing No. 1 draft pick Victor Wembanyama, are exploring the idea of developing a downtown arena, sources say. At the same time, the San Antonio Missions' new owners are pushing for a new baseball stadium in the inner city. If both projects come to fruition, they could be built side by side. A source familiar with both ownership groups says they’re exploring the possibility of developing a professional sports district that would bring together sports, dining and drinking. Peter J. Holt, whose family holds a majority share in the Spurs, and several other investors in the NBA franchise also own stakes in the Missions. Co-locating the teams' facilities, the thinking goes, could bring a year-round stream of fans to the central business district, which is struggling to recover from the COVID pandemic, and touch off a wave of new restaurant and bar openings. Fans could make a night of it, buying drinks or dinner before walking over for a game. The Spurs' current home court, the Bexar County-owned AT&T Center on the East Side, never generated that kind of development. In seeking voter approval in 1999 to raise the hotel and rental car tax to build the facility, county officials said the 19,000-seat arena would set off a burst of economic activity in the surrounding community. The reality is much different. People attending Spurs games, concerts, the San Antonio Stock Show & Rodeo and other events at the AT&T Center typically drive in, park and leave when the fun is over. There are few nearby restaurants or bars to hang out in before or after an event. The team’s lease on the 21-year-old arena expires in 2032. Nine years is more than enough time to decide to seek public funding for a new arena, campaign for it and, if voters say yes, move on to designing and building the facility. The Spurs organization is silent on the matter. Team officials did not respond to repeated requests for comment. But downtown interests — developers, business executives, tourism-industry officials, lawyers — have been buzzing about the possibility of a Spurs move for months. "People are having a conversation about an arena for the Spurs downtown," said Eddie Aldrete, who ran the winning campaign for public funding for the AT&T Center. Aldrete, a political and communications consultant with ties to the business community, said he hasn't heard directly from the Spurs that they're sizing up the possibility of a new arena. But he has no doubt that there's substance behind the chatter. "I think they're doing some preliminary research to see if it would make sense," he said. "They wouldn't want to start the conversation if the math doesn't add up." For their part, the owners of the Missions, the city's Double-A baseball team, will say only that their current home field, the city-owned Nelson W. Wolff Municipal Stadium on the far West Side, doesn’t meet the standards of Major League Baseball, which controls the minor leagues. Bexar County Judge Peter Sakai said he met with a group of Missions owners and briefly discussed the possibility of a new stadium downtown, though he added, “There was no ask at this meeting.” “It appears to me to be an attractive proposal to enhance the downtown area,” Sakai said. But the owners would need to prove the project would benefit county taxpayers if they’re going to seek public financing, he said. Missions owners who were in the room included Randy Smith, CEO and co-founder of downtown development firm Weston Urban; San Antonio businesswoman and former Texas Secretary of State Hope Andrade; and Reid Ryan, son of MLB Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan and CEO of Ryan Sanders Baseball, which co-owns and operates the Missions. In an interview, Sakai’s tone shifted when he was asked about the possibility of co-locating a new baseball stadium and Spurs arena in the central business district. “I’m not prepared to bring the Spurs into this conversation,” he said. Sakai’s comment hinted at some of the political difficulties ahead if the Spurs seek to leave the AT&T Center for a center-city basketball arena, which would likely depend on at least some taxpayer funding. Sakai’s predecessor, former County Judge Nelson Wolff, was more pointed in his assessment. “That makes absolutely no (expletive) sense — the AT&T Center is a very good arena,” Wolff said. The facility was built for $245 million in 2002 under his watch and has since undergone hundreds of millions' worth of improvements. If the team leaves the AT&T Center, the county would have to work hard to find a new anchor tenant — which is unlikely — or cobble together enough events to cover the facility’s operating costs. Wolff worries that constantly scrapping with the city-owned Alamodome for concerts, one-off sports events and trade shows would hurt both the city and county. With all the background noise about a potential move downtown, county leaders aren’t standing still. “We’re already in the process of developing a strategy to keep the Spurs in the AT&T Center,” Sakai said. Sakai didn’t elaborate, but county officials are starting to discuss a visitors-tax election to pay for upgrades at the AT&T Center and a spate of other venues, possibly including the Tobin Center for the Performing Arts downtown and amateur sports facilities, Precinct 2 County Commissioner Justin Rodriguez said. Rodriguez said the AT&T Center needs up to $85 million in improvements “as a starting point.” If the Spurs decide to go for a downtown arena, the county could jettison upgrades specifically designed to accommodate the team. But the county would still need to spend money to keep the arena up to date and competitive in the events trade, Rodriguez said. “As a responsible landlord, we’d have to make that investment,” he added. The county could ask voters to approve raising the venue tax to pay for the upgrades as early as November 2024, the next presidential election. A new game The Spurs have momentum — and some leverage if they seek a new arena. The team, which has failed to make the playoffs for four consecutive seasons, hit the lottery with French star-in-the-making Wembanyama. Season ticket and luxury box sales are surging, and the Spurs once again will be a team to watch. But its owners were making major moves before chance handed them the NBA’s No. 1 draft pick. Led by Peter J. Holt, the Spurs organization has shaken up its ownership group. The restructuring started in earnest two years ago with Austin billionaire Michael Dell and San Francisco-based private equity firm Sixth Street Partners buying out 11 Spurs investors and acquiring some of the shares of two others. Dell and Sixth Street own a combined 30 percent of the franchise. More investment capital followed. Airbnb co-founder Joe Gebbia, Paul Viera, CEO of Earnest Partners investment firm in Atlanta, and Kimberly Lewis, founder of investment management company KSL Resources and ex-wife of oil and gas tycoon Rod Lewis, each bought stakes in the team. Spurs Sports & Entertainment is using some of the cash to expand the team’s fan base in Mexico and the Austin metro area. (Sources say a downtown arena within walking distance of restaurants and bars could make a trip to watch the Spurs more appealing to out-of-towners.) Shortly after bringing in Dell and Sixth Street, Holt made public a letter to fans pledging to keep the team in San Antonio, its home since 1973. He was addressing worries that the new investors and the overhaul of the franchise’s governance structure, which put operational control in Holt’s hands, meant a relocation to Austin could be in the offing. Sakai, for one, is over that concern. He said he’s comfortable the team will remain in San Antonio for the long haul and that the Spurs' plan to build The Rock at La Cantera helps cement its ties to the city. The Rock, a development at the northwest corner of Interstate 10 and Loop 1604, is expected to cost as much as $500 million and will include a state-of-the-art training facility for the Spurs, a research center, an event plaza, a park and medical and commercial space. Spurs Sports & Entertainment is contributing at least $100 million to the project, the city of San Antonio is providing $17 million and Bexar County is kicking in $15 million in exchange for the park. Building The Rock would make little sense if a relocation is in the cards. Yet if the team decides to move downtown and opens talks with city and county officials about public financing, the threat of relocation would loom in the background — never referred to, but there nonetheless. Missions pressure The Mission owners' desire for a center-city stadium has been clear since last fall. That’s when a group of prominent developers, Spurs stars and members of the city’s Latino business and political elite purchased the Missions for about $28 million from Elmore Sports Group, returning ownership of the team to locals for the first time since 1987. Their top priorities: bringing Wolff Stadium on the West Side in line with league standards and finding land for a new facility in the downtown area. MLB effectively took over Minor League Baseball with a new Player Development License agreement that kicked in two years ago. It requires clubs to comply with league requirements by the beginning of the 2025 season. Leading up to that deadline, certain improvements must be made to Wolff Stadium this year and next year to show progress toward compliance, Missions president Burl Yarbrough said through a team spokesperson. If the stadium doesn’t meet the minimum standards — larger clubhouses and better field lighting and player training facilities — the club will be at risk of losing its MLB affiliation, Yarbrough said. The Missions are the Double-A affiliate of the San Diego Padres. While the team has made some upgrades to the stadium, it did not meet the requirements laid out for this year, and it asked for a deferral, which MLB granted, Yarbrough said. It’s unclear whether the league would allow any more deferrals. MLB sent a letter to the Missions’ owners asking them to put in writing their “long-term plan to keep baseball viable in San Antonio,” said Yarbrough, who declined to provide a copy of the letter. “Continuing to ‘band aid’ an outdated community asset is not an intelligent use of resources given the age and functionality of Wolff Stadium,” Yarbrough said. “In the absence of meeting these minimum required facility improvements or an acceptable plan for a new facility, the Missions Player Development License is ultimately at risk in the worst case, leaving San Antonio without affiliated professional baseball.” The group that bought the team, Designated Bidders LLC, includes Weston Urban co-founders Smith and Graham Weston, Holt, Andrade, Spurs shareholder Bruce Hill and onetime Clear Channel radio executive Bob Cohen. Spurs legends David Robinson and Manu Ginobili also have stakes in the team. Weston Urban is a major downtown landowner. Its projects include the Frost Tower, the first new office tower built in downtown San Antonio since 1989, and a pair of developments with over 600 apartments combined, a major infusion of rental housing. It's unclear where in downtown the new Missions stadium would be built. The former Fox Tech High School baseball field, a 2.3-acre site near San Pedro Creek Culture Park, had been floated as a potential site. Weston Urban was planning to acquire that land from the San Antonio Independent School District, which would receive 2.2 acres owned by the firm in return. The district’s board of trustees approved the swap last year, and Weston Urban also approached other nearby landowners about selling their property. But the deal did not go through, said SAISD spokesperson Laura Short. “My understanding is that other options are being pursued by both parties,” she said. Stadium locales Sources say other potential sites for a ball field, basketball arena or both include the cavernous Alamodome and its sea of surrounding parking lots, and the Institute of Texan Cultures at the southeastern corner of Hemisfair. The city-owned Alamodome was built in 1993 as a football stadium when the city was trying to attract a National Football League team. It was home to the Spurs until the 2002-03 season. The aging arena is not outfitted with the amenities fans are used to and needs technology and lighting improvements, and local leaders say it must be renovated if San Antonio is to hold its own in vying with other cities for exhibition games, trade shows and other events. RELATED: We've located 7 downtown sites where the San Antonio Missions could build a new baseball stadium That was the impetus for recent state legislation that would allow the city to take the state’s cut of sales taxes generated by any hotel within 3 miles of the Convention Center and Alamodome, an area called the “project financing zone.” The city’s overall take would be an estimated $222 million; the measure, approved by the legislature, makes the Alamodome, Convention Center and any “arena, coliseum, stadium” or other facility for sporting events eligible for that funding. The dome hosts the annual Alamo Bowl and the University of Texas at San Antonio Roadrunners and San Antonio Brahmas football games. The ITC is just across Interstate 37 from the Alamodome and near several hundred apartments built by developers with Opportunity Home San Antonio, formerly known as the San Antonio Housing Authority. UTSA is considering options that include moving the ITC or renovating the building that it occupies. The university has not been approached about a stadium, said spokesperson Joe Izbrand. |
Of course Wolff is against it, the man is against anything he didn't have a personal say in. Frankly this needs to be done, Sacramento is a perfect example of an arena in a downtown space. The AT&T has been great but its location is arguably the worst in the league if not American professional sports. We have hosted final four several times and have heard great feedback about how everything is centralized downtown (food, hotels, venues). Unfortunately unless the older generation has a change of heart I don't see it being built. I am 100% for it being taxpayer funded as well. Great Investment IMO
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ITC plot wouldn't be bad either, but having an arena district somewhere in the N Alamo/Broadway area would be a cool way to bridge that gap. |
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https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sa...ydzA?entry=ttu |
I'm coming around the to the idea of putting it on the San Pedro site. Or at least beginning to think it's the most likely site. Doing some very crude measuring on Google Maps, I think both stadiums could potentially fit there. The Golden1 arena in Sacramento is about 450x450, which easily fits in about 40% of the San Pedro block. Baseball stadiums are a lot more variable, but the new downtown El Paso stadium for example is about 450x600, which could fit in the remainder of the site. You could build a pretty big garage or two across Martin, and Martin itself is a unnecessarily gigantic street that could funnel traffic straight from the garages to the highway.
It's a kind of intriguing site because of the location on San Pedro Creek, and it's a little closer to the center of downtown than the Hemisfair or Alamodome sites. It would also be much closer to the two planned BRT lines. There's also the factor that part of the ownership of the Missions owns the majority of that block, which would probably lead the Missions to lobby for that site. If the City is serious about colocating the arenas, I'm guessing it's going to come down to the ITC, San Pedro or Alamodome sites. There really isn't anywhere else that's big enough unless you want to condemn a lot of private land (expensive and unpopular). Even the Alamodome site... I think you'd have to demo the Dome to make both fit. And ITC is only theoretically available, UTSA may not want to hand it over. Which leaves San Pedro as potentially the path of least resistance. |
I figure there are two important factors to keep in mind about a downtown baseball stadium.
1. The skyline should be visible beyond the outfield. 2. the baseline bleachers should face north and east to avoid burning spectators to a crisp in the afternoon sun. Those factors make the ITC site the best choice. |
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How many minor league stadiums have retractable roofs? |
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You know, if somebody really wanted to keep that fugly Planet of the Apes building, it is the right size and shape for a basketball arena to be retro-designed to retain its ugliness.
https://www.utsa.edu/_files/location...itc-banner.png https://www.utsa.edu/_files/location...itc-banner.png |
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they could have done the same with the federal courthouse, tbh. |
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Pardon my ignorance but I thought the Missions were triple A - Pacific Coast League. If not what happened?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Missions I was talking about converting the IOTC into an arena for the Spurs though. It's confusing when we're simultaneously talking about both the Spurs and Missions in one thread. :drunk: |
"City emails, texts show conversations and meetings surrounding potential ‘downtown’ arena for Spurs"
- KSAT Story contains text and video. https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2023...ena-for-spurs/ |
What are the forums thoughts on total demolition of the Alamodome? This article from August got me to wondering...
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I think a sleeper spot for a new Spurs stadium is the huge lot behind the Alamo next to the Rivercenter garage. Close to all the restaurants/bars on Broadway/N Alamo and walking distance to hotels/the riverwalk. I don't think an NBA arena would be tall enough to cast a shadow on the Alamo either lol. |
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As for the Alamodome, a basketball arena would fit there too, as many on this forum have said. I'd rather build it there and leave the block behind the Alamo for something more public, such as a park. And don't demo the Alamodome; it's being used, just not for an NFL team. If I remember correctly, citizens voted in favor of a 1/2-cent sales tax increase (or something like that) to help fund it in the hopes that it would help draw an NFL team. It would be utterly foolish to fall into that folly again ("fool me once..."). Only build a new stadium if there is a definite reason and with financial support from the team that would profit from using it. |
https://sanantonioreport.org/mccombs...urs-investors/
I think the timing seems to be on par with a downtown arena district. I believe, if someone could mention, which parcel of land the McCoy estate owns downtown. I think it would be smart for them to "donate" the land and keep the Spurs/Missions in San Antonio for the next 50 years. Thoughts? |
Hemisfair sports & entertainment district
CONCEPTUAL IDEA FOR A DOWNTOWN SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT AT HEMISFAIR.
OPEN TO HEAR EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THIS. PLEASE SHARE AND COMMENT THIS IDEA SO MAYBE OUR CITY LEADERS CAN THINK ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY. :tup: https://imageshack.com/i/pnXqhWErj WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THIS IDEA IN THE COMMING MONTHS: :notacrook: |
I think all the land east of the Tower of the Americas is fair game. Using land west of the tower would be difficult to impossible. Just try getting the Feds out of their office building, for one thing, also there would be much pushback against destroying or moving any of the other buildings. I'm intrigued by the idea of a riverwalk extension, but not the way you portray it. For one thing, the land keeps rising the farther east you go, meaning the river would be in a very deep ditch. But if there were buildings closely along each bank, like in most of the downtown area, it would be okay, and would also make the riverwalk much more lively, and not like the original Hemisfair extension. It was a huge mistake to just build walls along the extension and not buildings.
I think it would be better if the arena was in the footprint of the ITC site and the baseball stadium was in the south parking lot of the Alamodome, assuming the Alamodome isn't demolished, which I think is possible. In that case it's back to the drawing board. |
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This is awesome. I just cant get my hopes up about this.
I love the idea of a Texas Live. I do think SA needs something like that. |
And here we...... go!
https://www.expressnews.com/business...r-18681873.php The Spurs’ search for a downtown location for a new arena took a step forward Thursday when the University of Texas Board of Regents conditionally approved a plan to lease or sell the Institute of Texan Cultures property to the city of San Antonio. The board didn’t discuss the move in public, but the agenda for its meeting said the transaction was for a “potential downtown revitalization project” at the roughly 13.5-acre site at 801 E. César E. Chávez Blvd. The project is likely a Spurs arena, which the city has been working quietly since last year to relocate from its longtime East Side arena. Such a move would bring the team back to Hemisfair, its home for its first 20 seasons from 1973 to 1993, and be the capstone of the city’s yearslong transformation of the site of the 1968 World’s Fair into a gathering place with lush public parks, restaurants, apartments, a hotel and stores. It would also be part of an effort to reinvigorate the downtown area, which has struggled in the wake of the pandemic. It would mean a new location for the Institute of Texan Cultures, too. The University of Texas at San Antonio, which owns the museum, has been considering moving it to a new building near the Alamo and selling or leasing its current location. The Board of Regents unanimously approved granting the city the exclusive option to buy or lease the property after discussing the item in executive session — which is not open to the public. UTSA spokesperson Joe Izbrand declined to address questions about the nature of the revitalization project and the rent or sale price. “This action advances our due diligence process as we continue to evaluate feasible scenarios for the future of the ITC museum,” he said. “It gives us the flexibility to engage in conversations with the city of San Antonio without delay, given the UT System Board of Regents does not meet again until May.” Last fall, UTSA entered into a memorandum of understanding with Crockett Hotel owner 1859 Historic Hotels Ltd. and the city to evaluate the feasibility of constructing an 80,000-square-foot building for the museum on a parking lot behind the hotel. The location near the Alamo, River Walk and the future Alamo Visitor Center and Museum is expected to generate far more foot traffic for the struggling museum, which has faced declining attendance. University leaders have said that’s the most cost-effective option for the institute and gives them flexibility for uses of the current location. While relocation of the institute is considered the most favorable option, UTSA leaders have said they are also considering other scenarios, such as moving the museum to another location at Hemisfair, moving it to properties the university owns elsewhere downtown, or renovating its original 1968 facility. The 180,000-square-foot building the institute occupies was originally known as the Texas Pavilion and constructed to showcase Texas’ diverse history and cultures during the fair. The institute has been neglected in the years since, with some describing its exhibits as dated and shopworn, the building’s infrastructure deteriorating and a location that is difficult to access from other downtown attractions. University leaders have said the process of studying archaeological and soil conditions at the Alamo site and the costs of leasing or buying the land and building a new facility for the museum is expected to wrap up this spring. But a new option for the institute’s property arose last year: as a location for a new arena for the Spurs. The team currently plays at the Frost Bank Center on the East Side. The circa-2002 arena is owned by Bexar County and, according to many, no longer stacks up against rivals’ facilities. The San Antonio Missions baseball team, which was purchased by a group of local owners in 2022, also is eyeing relocating from the West Side to the center city. The group is under pressure from Major League Baseball to make improvements to Wolff Stadium to bring it in line with new league standards or build a new facility. According to sources familiar with the matter, a city official discouraged the Missions’ owners last year from pursuing the institute site as a location for a new ballpark, likely because City Hall was contemplating it as a new home for the Spurs. Some preservationists are loathe to see the Texas Pavilion building demolished. The Conservation Society of San Antonio nominated the building for placement on the National Register last year, arguing it’s worthy because of its connection to the World’s Fair and its brutalist architecture. UTSA opposed the nomination. In January, the Texas Historical Commission’s State Review Board deemed the building eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places. But under federal law, if an owner objects to a building being placed on the National Register, it is not listed, and listing on the Register also would not protect it from being razed, Conservation Society leaders have said. The Spurs, the city and Bexar County Judge Peter Sakai did not immediately respond to inquiries Thursday morning. |
Wild, they just said yesterday in SA Report they were doing a mixed use thing! Great news though, 10/10 location, let's do it.
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Absolutely love this layout. I have been wanting the riverwalk to be extended since I was teenager. If all this happens I would be glad to say San Antonio has finally joined big city status in the USA. Sadly as everyone knows that never is the case and we always podunk everything. I'm still mad about the 29 story buiding in Hemisfair being canceled for a basic 10 story apartment building. All we can do is hope and dream but this layout is a start. Next and I'm not joking we need to bring back the Hemisfair monorail, or a new modern monorail that connects all the stadiums to parking garages and loops around towards rivercenter mall area. I was in Seattle last week and they still have there monorail from the world fair connecting downtown Seattle to the Space Needle park area.
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So much for the idea of one big super sports complex at Hemisfair.
https://i.ibb.co/KKrP0Wg/Screenshot-...-03-185348.png "Instead, an unnamed source familiar with the matter told the daily that the San Antonio Missions' ownership group, which includes prominent Alamo City developer Weston Urban, is looking to build on the west side of downtown near the San Pedro Creek Culture Park. Whether that turns out to be the case remains to be seen, but the idea does make sense on paper. Records show that Weston Urban and entities affiliated with the development company have acquired or leased 19 acres of land south of San Antonio Independent School District headquarters and east of Christus Children's Hospital, according to the Express-News Moreover, the unnamed source said Weston Urban is in talks with SAISD to acquire Fox Tech High School's old baseball field, which is also in that area, the daily reports." |
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