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NanoBison
Jun 20, 2006, 3:24 AM
Hallejuhah, Hallejuhah, Hallejuhah !!!

F-Misthebest
Jun 20, 2006, 3:25 AM
Page 17 too. But did my picture come in? One more for 300 for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NanoBison
Jun 20, 2006, 3:28 AM
Picture came in fine. :tup:

F-Misthebest
Jun 20, 2006, 3:29 AM
Oh good. I fixed the pics.

Anyways, that pic was of the place where they want to build the "District at the Lakes".

F-Misthebest
Jun 20, 2006, 6:54 AM
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8915/undevelopedland15my.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5805/undevelopedland22eb.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6752/undevelopedland31bv.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5306/undevelopedland41bg.jpg

These are the undeveloped pieces of land that need to have something built on them. The first picture is of the southwestern part of the two interstates. I think that the zoo should buy some of the land and expand so we can have a decent zoo.

The second picture is of the area on 45th street across from the new Scheels. I think they should put something like a Cost Co. in there. It could be an upscale clothing store like Von Maur or something like Wal-Mart could go in. I want a Cost Co.

The third is where the Urban Plains is going in. It's going in for sure but I don't know when it's going to start and finish. I know Smiley said they thought when the ground thaws but nothing could grow if it wasn't thawed. Oh well.

The fourth and final one is the land owned by the stupid railroad. If the railroad sold the land to the city, Fargo could really turn the land into something nice. Fargo tends to do that you know. This land is located north of 12th Ave. N. and south of 19th Ave. N.

NanoBison
Jun 20, 2006, 7:44 AM
In the land on the last part, I thought NDSU owned all of that land up to the interstate?

F-Misthebest
Jun 20, 2006, 8:44 AM
Oh, I heard that the railroad did.

SmileyBoy
Jun 21, 2006, 1:48 AM
Oh, I heard that the railroad did.

That square mile of land with the railroad through it is owned by NDSU's ag program. A friend of mine (who is in the crop/weed science program) told me that it'll never be sold to private developers, because NDSU has owned the land for 116 years. I think that land is either livestock fields or crop fields.That area is actually part of NDSU's campus.

NanoBison
Jun 21, 2006, 2:28 AM
That's pretty close to what I've heard before. What I've heard is that land which is bordered by 12th Ave N, 19th Ave N, North University, and I-29 is all NDSU's. It's part of the land given to the state when the Morrill Land Grant institutions was enacted to give each state an agricultural college and develop it. We have the honor of being North Dakota's land grant University, along with our peer (in terms of being a land grant institution) land grants University of Minnesota, South Dakota State, Kansas State, etc...

So, I'm pretty sure the numbers on the Wikipedia Article are incorrect, including the endowment figures (it's clear of $100,000,000). I really should do that page and give NDSU a wiki article that is respectable. Currently it's being modified by a UND student. Go figure!!!

:whip:

NanoBison
Jun 21, 2006, 3:04 AM
Here's some information on the Horizon Shores plan going up in Moorhead across the river. The new plan has the proposed Menards in it, but I don't see a Home Depot, maybe that's what's going to go in Holiday Mall area? Or the area I pointed out for a Premium Outlet Mall???


Proposal :

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/60/horizonshoresplan3qw.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Current Status (a few months earlier...) :

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1885/horizonshoresarea8dq.gif (http://imageshack.us)

NanoBison
Jun 21, 2006, 3:07 AM
By the way, I drove by a few developments, the Qdoba's is coming along in the Holiday Mall area, there is another building being built next to the strip mall just southwest of the I-94/45th St. Interchange... Pracs is coming along nicely, and the Scheels looks like it should be ready for it's opening on July 1st.

On the NDSU campus, the Union, Wellness Center, and Technology Incubator building are coming along nicely.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

F-Misthebest
Jun 21, 2006, 3:53 AM
I didn't know that the land was owned by NDSU because I'm not in college. I was told by some person that it was owned by the railroad. Oh well, no harm done.

The Horizon Shores development is really coming along nicely. The Google Earth picture is a little old so it doesn't show all the houses that are there. I went to the Parade of Homes a while ago and went to the Horizon Shores development. There are quite a few houses. They're very nice as well. Very upscale, I mean it's not a future Rose Creek but it's similar, actually now that I think of it, very similar to Osgood. That's good that they're going to get another exit in Moorhead.

F-Misthebest
Jun 21, 2006, 3:58 AM
By the way, we need a Panera. I mean St. Cloud, Rochester, Sioux Falls and Mankato already have one. We have to be on the list to get one soon. Here's the link to Panera: http://www.panerabread.com/locations.aspx

F-Misthebest
Jun 21, 2006, 4:06 AM
Oh Smiley, if you type in "Fargo Moorhead" in Google Blog search the first thing that comes up is a Grand Forks blog. They said in their comments that Grand Forks is gaining people and that he thinks that you are jealous of Grand Forks. Ummmmmmmmm... why would we be jealous.http://grandforkslife.blogspot.com/2006/06/fargo-moorhead-blogosphere-has-arrived.html . You might not want to read it though. It's not pretty.

SmileyBoy
Jun 21, 2006, 5:39 PM
Oh Smiley, if you type in "Fargo Moorhead" in Google Blog search the first thing that comes up is a Grand Forks blog. They said in their comments that Grand Forks is gaining people and that he thinks that you are jealous of Grand Forks. Ummmmmmmmm... why would we be jealous.http://grandforkslife.blogspot.com/2006/06/fargo-moorhead-blogosphere-has-arrived.html . You might not want to read it though. It's not pretty.

I really don't care about them or their blog. That GF blog is too advanced and has too many people visiting it for me to compete. I'm not attenpting to one-up them in anything. Like I said in my blog, I'm not going to get into a piss contest with them. My F-M blog is solely for the purpose of bringing out new information on urban developments in F-M. My blog doesn't have all the bells and whistles on it like the other one does, and I'm not planning to do that. Anyway, it seems to me that the owner of the GF blog has nothing better to do in his life than his blog, which is kind of pathetic, seeing as how he's constantly updating it and putting all that superfluous shit on there. I would wager that "GrandForksGuy" is more like a typical blogger, in that he's a 35 year-old unemployed single man living in his mother's basement. As for me, I work a full-time job, and I have a full-time college work load in one of the most prestigious architecture programs in the country, so I don't have the hours and hours during the day to obsess over it.

Regardless, it seems like all us F-M people are here on SkyScraperPage anyway, which is a lot better place to discuss these things (IMO) than some stupid blog. SSP has members from Calcutta to Charleston, and we get to see a lot more diversity in opinion here than some hyper-local blog.

Paintballer1708
Jun 21, 2006, 5:44 PM
I wonder why they think Grand Forks is growing? I checked the 2005 census and the numbers dont look to shabby. :shrug:

SmileyBoy
Jun 21, 2006, 5:54 PM
I wonder why they think Grand Forks is growing? I checked the 2005 census and the numbers dont look to shabby. :shrug:

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and claim that the census estimate figures for Fargo that claim a snail's pace growth are wrong, but yet the census figures for GF that are claiming a loss for GF are right. The Census Bureau doesn't know what the fuck they are doing at all. They're almost as bad as FEMA right now as far as government agencies go. So I will point out the fact that Grand Forks' city government did a population estimate for the year 2005, and it showed a population of 50,872. You can look it up at http://www.grandforksgov.com . That is an increase of 1,551 over 5 years. It's a snail's pace sure, but I'm for all growth in the entire region (not just F-M), which means if Fargo's getting the census shaft, then GF is getting it too. However, an increase of 1,551 in five years is still nothing to scream home to momma about, though. Fargo alone has increased by over 11,000 in that same timeframe, West Fargo has increased by around 7,000 and Moorhead has increased by over 6,000. The F-M urban area has increased by 27,000 in that time frame, and Sioux Falls has increased by over 21,000 (with Brandon, SD, a town of 1/8 of GF's population, increasing by over 3,000). So 1,551 isn't much when you look at other places, and it seems like a lot of people in GF are still desperate to see their town to become like Fargo-Moorhead or Sioux Falls.

SmileyBoy
Jun 21, 2006, 6:25 PM
More crap from the census bureau today - Does anybody actually think that the city of Fargo grew by only 73 people in the period from 2000 to 2005?? Anyone??... Bueller??... Bueller??...

Meanwhile, it says that GF grew by 471 people in that same time frame. Yeah, like GF really grew by 6.5 times more than Fargo did. That's reeeeeal believeable...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Fargo looks TOTALLY different today than it did on April 1, 2000. And it only grew by 73 people???Who are these census idiots trying to kid???

Like I said... City of Fargo estimate of July 1, 2005 - 102,254.

Reichert
Jun 21, 2006, 10:43 PM
The entire state of North Dakota is getting the shaft from the Census Bureau, not just the F-M area.

According to them Bismarck only grew by less than 2,000 people during this time....anyone with a clue can see that their growth is at least double that.

Grand Forks and F-M have already been covered here, but the estimates for both cities are once again BS.

I would like to discuss western ND for a moment. According to the Bureau both Dickinson and Williston have lost population since 2000, and have lost a fair amount of people. For those who have been stuck behind a Census Bureau desk I dare them to get out once in a while and see the communities they're making bad guesses on. For what it's worth apartment housing in both cities is quite scarce nowadays because of the oil boom out there, and this is especially true in Williston. Both places are having to reverse course on their housing stock and a building boom is just around the corner.

Once they do a count in 2010 it will be quite the eye opener for the Washington bureaucrats...hopefully some heads will roll considering they are underestimating the entire Upper Midwest.

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 2:07 AM
I don't necessarily think all of North Dakota is getting the sham in the census bureau, I just think it's the larger metros of Bismarck and Fargo-Moorhead being heavily under-reported. I agree with their figures of Minot and Grand Forks losing people. The rest of the state, I suspect is still dwindling in population, just not as fast as it currently was. We are now, thank goodness, to the point, where the growth from Bismarck and Fargo-Moorhead is evening out the decline. Hopefully as we get bigger it will offset it more.

F-Misthebest
Jun 22, 2006, 4:58 AM
Regardless, it seems like all us F-M people are here on SkyScraperPage anyway, which is a lot better place to discuss these things (IMO) than some stupid blog. SSP has members from Calcutta to Charleston, and we get to see a lot more diversity in opinion here than some hyper-local blog.

Dang straight.

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 5:07 AM
To add to Reichert said earlier, I would be quite happy if Williston "suffered" from an economic boom due to the oil industry, and demand which is not appearing to subside any time soon. If Williston could turn into the Third Important Tier of the state of North Dakota and add to the population, that would be great. Can anyone here picture Williston approaching Minot in size (minus the Air Base)... I do hope the 2010 census stats show Williston finally making a reversal...

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 5:17 AM
Actually, I think Hector Airport here in Fargo should beat all of the other airports to the chase, and offer a daily flight in and out of Fargo for Williston. With the numerous people who are going to be making nice money off of the Oil market, I can see the need for them to have the availability of everything Fargo-Moorhead has to offer within a days flight. Of course, I'm talking starting off with like CRJ 50 seat airplanes, then if things get good, move up to the MD-80 or A319 or A320.

Of course, this is off in the future, say maybe 5 - 10 years from now, but if there is as much oil there as people are saying, I can see the need that will want to be served and the population of even 20,000 isn't going to do what WE can do for them....

Ok, enough of my crazy brain ideas...

In case you haven't had enough, think what that oil could do for Williston in say 50-100 years... They'll be approaching what Anchorage is now......
(Especially if Oil contunies to rise in cost)...

F-Misthebest
Jun 22, 2006, 5:27 AM
But if Williston gets a "boom", will that be bad news for us? Will the tables turn and start having Williston being the growing city and Fargo-Moorhead's population start to decline? Will this mean that the only major growing cities will be Williston, Bismarck, and Minot? I personally hope not. But the only thing I want is for all the major cities in the state to be growing with Fargo on top.

Maybe if this oil deal kicks in, they could build an interstate connecting Williston to Dickinson or maybe Williston to Minot to Bismarck. Maybe. Who knows. That would be cool if the state could get another interstate. When I mean another interstate I mean the little fake ones they have in the cities and Sioux Falls. You know, Interstate 229. That kind of deal. I would one day hope we (as a state) break 750,000. I mean we were supposed to reach 680,000 in 2005, according to the census, but did we, NO. We need to AT LEAST break 700,000.

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 5:34 AM
I'm not sure though, realistically, how much Oil money would trickle into the Fargo-Moorhead area. We do have a pipeline running through us. Would another company be interested in installing another pipeline through Fargo, or up to Fargo and then building a Refinery outside of town for processing? That would be interesting if we could get a $100-$200 million dollar facility like that. I know I've heard reports about the FM area being considered for a $150 million dollar Ethanol plant ( supposedly on the north end of town ), but I've never heard anything come to fruitation with that...


Here's the section of land it was supposed to go in :

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6770/ethanolplant7bk.gif (http://imageshack.us)


Anyone have any updates on this project? Smiley?

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 5:37 AM
I don't think it will necessarily be bad for the Fargo-Moorhead area. Our economy is diverse enough where it shouldn't be a problem. If I was living in Minot or Dickinson, then I'd start to worry. They may lose a few of their people to Williston. Fargo-Moorhead will be the research, tech, heavy industry, and retail capital of the state, but if Williston came in and became Oil capital, I think that would be great too...

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 5:46 AM
Oh and in terms of getting another interstate, even if it is a "fake" one. I recently went to one of the FM Metrocog meetings where they gave out the 5 year plan for transportation. I talked with one of the engineers for their office and asked about why we don't have another secondary interstate running around Fargo-Moorhead. He said it's definitely been brought up by city leaders (this is where I grin cheek to cheek and start drooling). One of the reasons it's been on that back burners is of course we haven't hit a population where it's more of a necessity than a luxury. The poor state of the Minnesota funding ( anyone remember the multiple billion dollar debts ??? ) directly after 9.11 did help either. There were a few project that Moorhead just would't be able to "join us in", without heavy Minnesota aid. However, with the growth the entire metro area has seen in the last decade and the proposed growth, you can expect the issue to be brought up probably within the next 5-10 years. Becuase with the developments of Eagle Run, Brandt, Osgood, Horizon Shores, and White Oaks developments, the traffic will continue to increase and we will eventually want a ring around the city that allows quicker travel times, while at the same time, allow thru traffic to bypass the busier parts of the metro.

Now can you imagine the amount of development that would form around every interchange of that new interstate loop...????



:banana: :banana: :banana:

F-Misthebest
Jun 22, 2006, 5:57 AM
That would just be peechy keen. I would love for a secondary interstate. ALL OF THE RETAIL, RESTAURANTS, JOBS,:slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: ! I would love it. I invision it being looped around the south part of the city. As West Fargo, Fargo, and Moorhead continue to grow I see it looking something like this (pardon my computer art skills):
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4880/interstateplan7ix.jpg

The red area being the interstate. I know it's a horrible plan, but SOMETHING like this.:)

F-Misthebest
Jun 22, 2006, 6:06 AM
Oops! I meant for the southern part of the interstate to go down to 76th not 64th.

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 6:27 AM
Here's what I was thinking, in terms of an actual loop, since I want to see both the north and south parts of the city prosper. The green represents current interstate, the blue represents new loop and the orange square are major interchanges... It's a big plan, and I'm sure it would run in the $200-$500 million dollar range, considering I-29 is $90,000,000 (but that involves alot of rip-up, redo everything, working in tight spaces, not displacing too many people, etc...). I would imagine though, this could be done in phases when each city was ready to add their part. Of course, I didn't have the time to add future developments based around the loop, but I think most can picture how they would go...

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5216/outerloop6jk.gif (http://imageshack.us)

If it's built in the rural areas, before the development gets to them, they cost much less, becuase there is less issues with right of way, land acquisition, and the land is pretty much flat everywhere....

BigTicket
Jun 22, 2006, 6:51 AM
More BS from the census....

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=130767&section=news

A loss of 1200 people, I just don't see it the growth in Fargo(just the city) has cooled off a bit but not to a point where the city is losing people. :hell:

The city should do their own estimate and call the census out on their bs estimates.

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 7:33 AM
Two people from the city offices did mention they are highly skeptical of the newly released figures. While I agree that West Fargo and Moorhead grew decently, and tend to syphon people from Fargo, I don't think Fargo actually LOST 1200 people. That's just flat out B.S.

It makes me wonder if the Census Bureau doesn't possibly have city borders mixed up. Someone should call them and tell them Fargo goes past I-29...

On the Apartment Occupancy being low. If it's so darn low, why have 8 families moved into my apartment building within the last 2 months? Someone help me!!! I can't sleep past 8am due to the damn kids running up and down the halls...

Yeah, Fargo is still growing. It may not be as fast as previously, but it's still respectable. We'll just see in 2010 I guess. Then we'll have to sue the Census Beauru for damages and defamitory figures which caused our city to lose people.

I would literally crap my pants, if on the 2010 census, we hit 250,000 in the metropolitan area ( 4-county ). Glad to see West Fargo topped out Mandan for 5th largest city. It's only got 15,000 more to go until it out paces Minot. Wouldn't that be something. The metro has 2 of the top 4 largest cities in the state. Sweet.....

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 7:46 AM
In order for Fargo to move forward though and continue break-neck growth. I think the most important thing to do would be to really develop the inner-core or downtown area of the city. There's NO reason why we wouldn't be able to add 10,000 people living in downtown over the next decade. But that means it has to be made for those people. While we can still pursue the lavish 200,000-1,000,000 condos and suites, we definitely need to build more middle and lower income housing. I wouldn't mind own a 100,000 condo downtown. (Heck I wouldn't mind 1,000,000 - but I'll be realistic). Why can't we build hoards of unique places for people to leave downtown. Build a few more towers. Give people the reason to live and work downtown. Create a downtown so vibrant, people would confuse it for a small Chicago or Minneapolis in terms of foot traffic on the streets. Make it a happening place. Make it a destination. NDSU downtown is a good start. But now get NDSU and Moorhead State and Concordia to develop micro campuses in their respective downtown areas. Finally add a direct link downtown from both the interstates. People should be able to hit it from I-29 or I-94, without having to go through 15 red lights and make 4-5 or more turns. I think once the railroad silencing project is completed and street work is minimized, development will take off one again.

That's the goal I want to see happen. 10,000 people added to downtown in the next decade. I think it's highly doable (even if we have to syphon off West Fargo and Moorhead for the people,... wouldn't that be a change...).

Paintballer1708
Jun 22, 2006, 2:46 PM
Originally posted by NanoBison
Here's what I was thinking, in terms of an actual loop, since I want to see both the north and south parts of the city prosper. The green represents current interstate, the blue represents new loop and the orange square are major interchanges... It's a big plan, and I'm sure it would run in the $200-$500 million dollar range, considering I-29 is $90,000,000 (but that involves alot of rip-up, redo everything, working in tight spaces, not displacing too many people, etc...). I would imagine though, this could be done in phases when each city was ready to add their part. Of course, I didn't have the time to add future developments based around the loop, but I think most can picture how they would go...

I know thats what Charlotte, NC is doing with their new loop. They are taking it by phases. But if this happens if Fago i think that would be great. There arent to many cities in this country with loops as you would think.

Reichert
Jun 22, 2006, 4:22 PM
In regards to the Williston Basin, there's no reason to believe that a boom out there would have a negative effect on the F-M area. As a matter of fact, withe North Dakota's tax structure in regards to the petroleum industry the state coffers should be flush and as a result it might create extra funds for infrastructure in both the Fargo and Bismarck areas. An increase in the oil economy (this might not be a boom in the true sense of the word...this might be more permanent than that) could be quite beneficial for the entire state and the Fargo area would see benefits from that.

Back to Williston itself....a friend of my wife's was just there last weekend. She told us of people who are living in HOTELS right now because there just isn't any apartment or single family housing available right now at all. This would make any population projection on Williston right now tricky at best and way off base at worst. It's a moving target that's nearly impossible to hit right now.

SmileyBoy
Jun 22, 2006, 6:08 PM
In regards to the Williston Basin, there's no reason to believe that a boom out there would have a negative effect on the F-M area. As a matter of fact, withe North Dakota's tax structure in regards to the petroleum industry the state coffers should be flush and as a result it might create extra funds for infrastructure in both the Fargo and Bismarck areas. An increase in the oil economy (this might not be a boom in the true sense of the word...this might be more permanent than that) could be quite beneficial for the entire state and the Fargo area would see benefits from that.

Back to Williston itself....a friend of my wife's was just there last weekend. She told us of people who are living in HOTELS right now because there just isn't any apartment or single family housing available right now at all. This would make any population projection on Williston right now tricky at best and way off base at worst. It's a moving target that's nearly impossible to hit right now.

So what's your thoughts on what Williston's population might be right now, or anyone else's thoughts?? 15,000?? 20,000?? More???

SmileyBoy
Jun 22, 2006, 6:10 PM
Here's what I was thinking, in terms of an actual loop, since I want to see both the north and south parts of the city prosper. The green represents current interstate, the blue represents new loop and the orange square are major interchanges... It's a big plan, and I'm sure it would run in the $200-$500 million dollar range, considering I-29 is $90,000,000 (but that involves alot of rip-up, redo everything, working in tight spaces, not displacing too many people, etc...). I would imagine though, this could be done in phases when each city was ready to add their part. Of course, I didn't have the time to add future developments based around the loop, but I think most can picture how they would go...

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5216/outerloop6jk.gif (http://imageshack.us)

If it's built in the rural areas, before the development gets to them, they cost much less, becuase there is less issues with right of way, land acquisition, and the land is pretty much flat everywhere....

It would most likely be called either Interstate 294 or Interstate 429, because there's a 494 in Minneapolis and a 229 in Sioux Falls.

Another interesting fact: The only branch Interstate in North Dakota is in Bismarck - Interstate 194.

SmileyBoy
Jun 22, 2006, 6:11 PM
In order for Fargo to move forward though and continue break-neck growth. I think the most important thing to do would be to really develop the inner-core or downtown area of the city. There's NO reason why we wouldn't be able to add 10,000 people living in downtown over the next decade. But that means it has to be made for those people. While we can still pursue the lavish 200,000-1,000,000 condos and suites, we definitely need to build more middle and lower income housing. I wouldn't mind own a 100,000 condo downtown. (Heck I wouldn't mind 1,000,000 - but I'll be realistic). Why can't we build hoards of unique places for people to leave downtown. Build a few more towers. Give people the reason to live and work downtown. Create a downtown so vibrant, people would confuse it for a small Chicago or Minneapolis in terms of foot traffic on the streets. Make it a happening place. Make it a destination. NDSU downtown is a good start. But now get NDSU and Moorhead State and Concordia to develop micro campuses in their respective downtown areas. Finally add a direct link downtown from both the interstates. People should be able to hit it from I-29 or I-94, without having to go through 15 red lights and make 4-5 or more turns. I think once the railroad silencing project is completed and street work is minimized, development will take off one again.

That's the goal I want to see happen. 10,000 people added to downtown in the next decade. I think it's highly doable (even if we have to syphon off West Fargo and Moorhead for the people,... wouldn't that be a change...).

Right now, I'm just hoping for ANY new construction. I don't care if it's a little tiny 300-square foot building. I just want SOMETHING new!! I just want to see more than historical renovations!!!

SmileyBoy
Jun 22, 2006, 6:14 PM
I know thats what Charlotte, NC is doing with their new loop. They are taking it by phases. But if this happens if Fago i think that would be great. There arent to many cities in this country with loops as you would think.

I think what might happen first is a bypass connector going from 76th or 84th Ave. South on I-29 to just west of the RRV Fairgrounds and the RRV Speedway in West Fargo. (The problem would be building the thing over the Sheyenne Diversion developments in Horace) Then a 2nd phase would be a bypass wrapping around Reile's Acres, the Fargo Industrial Park and the ND Horse Park on the northwest side. And than a bypass around south Moorhead would come next. I really don't know if it would be worth it to build one in north Moorhead around Oakport, though.

SmileyBoy
Jun 22, 2006, 6:17 PM
Hey NanoBison, maybe you could redo the shape of the loop into a shape similar to Perimiter Highway 101 in Winnipeg. That would be the best layout for the freewasy, instead of having sharp turns southeast of Moorhead.

NanoBison
Jun 22, 2006, 7:46 PM
I can always go back to the drawing board. I was more or less an idea I threw out there. I also tried to keep the proposed loop from crossing over too many fields and stay more aligned with the current dirt/gravel rural roads. Meaning less land that would have to be negotiated....Of course, I was also trying to get it far-enough out of town where growth could be maximized, but not too far out of town to the point that people would think it is pointless.

Reichert
Jun 22, 2006, 9:23 PM
The best guess I can imagine right now for Williston has the city holding around 14,000 to maybe 15,000 residents. The current situation was created somewhat by the demolition of older housing during the lean years and thus when the oil industry rebounded it only took a couple of thousand move-ins to create the current housing crunch. However, the situation continues to worsen each month.

Right now North Dakota companies are only getting around $55-$60 per barrel due to pipeline restrictions. Once that situation gets rectified (and there's too much money to be made for it not to get fixed) and ND starts seeing market prices for their oil watch out. I can see Williston city getting to around 25,000 people with possibly 35,000 in Williams County. And this wouldn't be a boom scenario....oil prices are not coming down and thus this is going to be a long term situation. If there really are 400 billion barrels of oil out there we're thinking really, really long term.

Like I said, this will benefit the entire state, not just the Williston Basin.

F-Misthebest
Jun 22, 2006, 11:45 PM
Here's some pics I took of the skyline and so on:
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7980/theskylineandfm0213zj.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5258/theskylineandfm0035zk.jpg

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7500/theskylineandfm0045fm.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3787/theskylineandfm0351vf.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9116/theskylineandfm0085vv.jpg

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9938/theskylineandfm0443ek.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9277/theskylineandfm0186gw.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1862/theskylineandfm0173tv.jpg
The never ending road.

Hope you like them!

F-Misthebest
Jun 22, 2006, 11:48 PM
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5216/outerloop6jk.gif (http://imageshack.us)

If it's built in the rural areas, before the development gets to them, they cost much less, becuase there is less issues with right of way, land acquisition, and the land is pretty much flat everywhere....

That is a very could idea. You know it's a little better then mine.;) Well, a lot better.

SmileyBoy
Jun 23, 2006, 12:44 AM
Here's some pics I took of the skyline and so on:
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7980/theskylineandfm0213zj.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5258/theskylineandfm0035zk.jpg

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7500/theskylineandfm0045fm.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3787/theskylineandfm0351vf.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9116/theskylineandfm0085vv.jpg

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9938/theskylineandfm0443ek.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9277/theskylineandfm0186gw.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1862/theskylineandfm0173tv.jpg
The never ending road.

Hope you like them!

Post those in the City Photos forum!!!:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 1:24 AM
That's actually just some of the pictures I've taken of the area. I'm going to take so many more and post all of the ones I've already taken. It's going to have downtown, suburban areas, future sites of developments, pictures of developments, and aerial shots from a private plane. I'm gonna take pictures from Vics Aircrafts or something like that up on 19th.

Smiley, hope you like your new place. I know it has been a while since you told us, but still, it's the thought that counts. And I've been reading your blog. I think it's pretty cool. Oh, and the last time I checked you had a comment. I didn't read it but I hope it's something good.

Paintballer1708
Jun 23, 2006, 2:02 AM
^ That will be cool FM when you get those pictures. That sounds like it will be one of the best photo threads i have seen. And i have seen alot! But speaking of the blog. The person left a really nice comment about Fargo. Just thought i would let you know so you didnt think it was something bad. Like someone from Grand Forks saying something. :D

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 2:45 AM
Paintballer, I went to www.emporis.com/ and tried to find Dormont, Pennsylvania but I couldn't. What's the population of the city? Not to be rude but just wondering.:D

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 2:47 AM
I went to http://www.city-data.com/city/Dormont-Pennsylvania.html and saw that it had around 8,000 people. You don't need to tell me now.:D

Paintballer1708
Jun 23, 2006, 2:59 AM
Ya its about 8,0000-9,000. We are about 15 minutes south of downtown Pittsburgh. I think im gonna make a photo thread of Pittsburgh soon once i get moved in.

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 3:00 AM
That's gonna be a neat thread too.

Paintballer1708
Jun 23, 2006, 3:02 AM
And also that site you have about Dormont...... its a shame that the Pittsburgh metro is loosing people. This place is such a great place to live and the economy is so diversived. But it doesnt seem to slow down the construction as there are new casinos being built on the south end of the Monongahela river and a new arena being built for the Pittsburgh Penguins.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=108794

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100544

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 3:27 AM
What do you think will be the 2010 population of Fargo will be? I personally think it will be around 110,000. If Fargo grows around 2,000 people a year:

2000: 90,000
2001: 92,000
2002: 94,000
2003: 96,000
2004: 98,000
2005: 100,000
2006: 102,000 (right on the money, July 1st estimate:102,254)
2007: 104,000
2008: 106,000
2009: 108,000
2010: 110,000

Moorhead gains around 1,000:

2000: 32,000
2001: 33,500
2002: 34,000
2003: 35,000
2004: 36,000
2005: 37,000
2006: 38,000 (right on the money again, 2006: 38,346)
2007: 39,000
2008: 40,000
2009: 41,000
2010: 42,000

So just by that with West Fargo growing quickly as well as Dilworth so I hope by 2010 the urban area will be around 190,00 with the metro around who knows what: 220,000 250,000?.:shrug:

NanoBison
Jun 23, 2006, 6:16 AM
$3.5M overhaul of downtown Fargo’s KRJ building planned
By Mike Nowatzki, The Forum
Published Friday, June 23, 2006

A Fargo architect plans to apply his skills to a second major building renovation project this year on the north side of downtown Fargo.

Kevin Bartram is now renovating the historic Ford Motor Co. manufacturing plant at 505 Broadway – most recently home to Kaye’s Printing – into a mix of retail space, offices and condos.

On Thursday, Fargo’s Renaissance Zone Authority approved tax exemptions for Bartram to do a similar overhaul on the nearly 50,000-square-foot KRJ building at 503 7th St. N., just south of Hardee’s restaurant.

Bartram, doing business as Sterling Development Group Nine LLC, estimated the project’s total cost at $3.5 million.

That includes the $710,000 purchase price for the building and land, $625,000 for a new roof, windows and other exterior improvements, and $1.8 million to remodel the interior and upgrade the electrical and mechanical systems.
Fargo architect Kevin Bartram plans to renovate the KRJ building at 503 7th St. N. in Fargo.

The KRJ building, which Bartram bought from the estate of the late Fargo architect Kenneth R. Johnson, has been around since 1920 but isn’t that well known, he said. Its basement has housed several restaurants through the years, including the Bosnian House and Mama Lena’s.

“It’s kind of one of those buildings that flies under the radar,” he said.

Bartram plans to remodel the basement, first and second floors into office and retail space for lease.

The third floor will contain four small condos and two large condos, and the roof tower will be expanded into a penthouse loft.

Remodeling should start within the next month and will take about a year to complete, he said.

The building isn’t listed on any historic registries, but Bartram said he will retain as much of the original exterior as possible.

Inside, the offices will expose the building’s masonry walls and wood post-and-beam construction.

The City Commission must approve the Renaissance Zone incentives.

According to Bartram’s application, the five-year state income tax exemption would be worth $2,200 per year and the five-year property tax exemption would amount to $1,154 per year, based on 2005 values.

Bartram’s project meets the Renaissance Zone goals of revitalizing old buildings, combining residential and commercial space and providing a range of housing prices, Fargo Senior Planner Bob Stein said. Bartram said the smaller condos will range from $150,000 to $250,000, with higher prices for the larger condos and penthouse loft.

“It has everything that we like to see in a project, particularly in these larger buildings,” Stein said.

In addition to Bartram’s project, Renaissance Zone projects are under way at the Fargoan Hotel at 319 Broadway and the former Interiors by France building at 222 Broadway. Downtown redevelopment continues to work its way northward, following the $8 million Broadway Streetscape project completed in 2004, Stein said.

“You’re seeing the return on that now,” he said.





Here is the building they are referencing. In order to get to it, you have to take a back alley street. It's a little bit off the beaten path. The gentlemen proposing this is the same one redoing the Kaye's Printing building (old Ford Motor Company Plant). Here are some pics below....


Pic (Fargo Forum 2006)
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5663/krjbuildingpic2oi.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Location Downtown (Google Earth 4.0)
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8135/krjbuildingloc6ef.gif (http://imageshack.us)


Good to see another big brick building getting a redo.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

NanoBison
Jun 23, 2006, 6:22 AM
Dilworth welcomes supercenter
By Joe Whetham, The Forum
Published Friday, June 23, 2006

The Dilworth Planning Commission embraced plans for a Wal-Mart Supercenter on Thursday, approving zoning changes to 30 acres of land.

In a unanimous decision, the commission agreed to forward its rezoning recommendation on land just north of the existing Dilworth Wal-Mart to the City Council for final approval. The City Council will discuss the recommendation at 6:30 p.m. Monday.

“I haven’t heard any comments against” rezoning the land, Planning Commission member Bruce West said. “I think it’s a good proposal.”

Pending final council approval of the rezoning, Wal-Mart hopes to start construction this fall and open the 215,000-square-foot store by late 2007, said Darcy Winter of D.E. Winter & Associates – a Minneapolis commercial real estate firm working for Wal-Mart.

“We think it would be a really great addition to the city of Dilworth,” said Winter, who has worked withWal-Mart on stores in Minnesota and North Dakota for 17 years.

City Council member Julie Nash agrees. She said Dilworth backs Wal-Mart.

“We have generally seen a lot of support for Wal-Mart,” said Nash, also a Planning Commission member. “I’m not expecting anything much different than it was tonight” at the City Council meeting.

The new center will be nearly identical to one in Alexandria, Minn., Winter said. In addition to retail services, the supercenter will feature a grocery store, pharmacy, garden center, liquor store and tire and lube center.

The building will face 34th Street North, with a massive parking lot to its west. A 6.7-acre strip of land just west of the supercenter will act as a buffer between Wal-Mart and a housing development.

The 6.7-acre strip of land is owned by BMW Homes. Its owner, former Dilworth City Council member Barry Steen, resigned last week to avoid a potential conflict of interest.

Commission members approved a letter from Steen to withdraw his request to have the land rezoned to residential.

City Planner Stan Thurlow said the 6.7-acre strip will act as a buffer between Wal-Mart and Oakview First Addition.

The strip, plus another 70 feet of space for greenery and shrubs close to the store, will separate the supercenter and the housing development by more than 300 feet, according to Wal-Mart representatives.

Chris Howell, who lives a block away from the 6.7-acre “buffer strip,” criticized the new center, saying it will depreciate the value of his home and stifle residential growth.

Howell said he wasn’t aware that Dilworth’s growth plan included a big-box retailer near his neighborhood.

He was the only property owner to speak at the meeting.

“I wouldn’t have built my house there if I would’ve known I’d be staring at a Wal-Mart outside my front door,” said Howell, who has lived in Dilworth since early 2005.

City officials said the land near 34th Street North has always been earmarked for commercial development, although not to the scale of a supercenter.

Also, county assessors have found no cases of houses depreciating in value because of big-box retailers, City Administrator Ken Parke said.

Dilworth hasn’t heard any negative comments about a supercenter from local business owners, Thurlow said.






I'm not the biggest fan of Walmart, but this will add to the local economy none the less... other side note, this may be the smallest city to have a Walmart Supercenter. I know, I know, it's basically right next to Moorhead. Just to think, eventually this metropolitan area is going to have 3 Walmart Supercenters, if the South Fargo one solidifies again on a different piece of property.

:cheers:

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 6:22 AM
That's great that downtown is renovating all these old buildings but for once, let's be like Sioux Falls and build some huuuuuuge skyscraper that's new in downtown Fargo.

NanoBison
Jun 23, 2006, 6:26 AM
I would definitely be for us building a mini-skyscraper downtown in the future. I wonder if Smiley has had a chance yet to get some more juicy tidbits on the Conrad Olson tower...

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 6:28 AM
Yah, I wonder. A while back I posted my idea for a skyscraper for downtown Fargo. Smiley liked it so I will find it quote it and post it on this page so you can read it as well.

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 6:29 AM
I personally have an idea for downtown Fargo as well. I origanally wanted this skyscraper to be on the Fargo Cineama Grill block but since there is all that renovation, it wouldn't make sense to take it down. Anyways, I imagine a 30+ storey glass skyscraper with a department store as well. That's kind of hard to think of so I will go into detail. The east half of the block would be set aside for a department store such as Von Maur. This building would be brick and sort of similar to the new buildings in downtown Moorhead except this departement store would be all one brick type and well, bigger. I would either have this building be two or three storeys. I know that it would be hard to manage a department store downtown but once it is there I think people will go to it.

On the west half side of the block I would have a dinner theatre, a Northstar Coffee and an upscale restaurant on the first floor. As I said on another post that most Fargoans want some sort of theatre arts venue instead of another sports arena. The dinner theatre would take up a couple floors for sound and all but that could be not a problem. On top of the dinner theatre, restaurant and coffe shop, I would put the glass skyscraper starting with another 9 storeys of retail. The next 15 storeys would be some offices. As Nanobison said it would be cool to have some big company like IBM come in. The final 5 storeys would be luxury condominums. The top floor would be the penthouse. This building would have underground parking. Its just an idea and I would like people's feedback so please reply.:)

Here it is. Yahoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 7,001 views.

Paintballer1708
Jun 23, 2006, 3:26 PM
Are there any plans for a highrise in Fargo?

F-Misthebest
Jun 23, 2006, 4:40 PM
^Well, there is a developer in town by the name of Konrad Olson who wants to build a highrise retail, hotel, condo, tower on the banks of the Red River. It would be modern as well as classy:cool: .

SmileyBoy
Jun 23, 2006, 5:24 PM
^Well, there is a developer in town by the name of Konrad Olson who wants to build a highrise retail, hotel, condo, tower on the banks of the Red River. It would be modern as well as classy:cool: .

Konrad Olson has said in the Forum that he wants to build a new 20-story condo/office/hotel tower on the banks of the Red River, but that it's just in the vision stages right now.

As for the new project north of downtown, it's real nice and all, but I desperately WANT TO SEE new construction take place, and not just historical renovations!!

Good news on the new Supercenter in Dilworth. I went to the one in Alexandria, and I thought it was actually very architecturally pleasing. I also read somewhere that the Alexandria store meets LEED standards for energy efficiency, so that's good.

Paintballer1708
Jun 23, 2006, 5:49 PM
Well hopefully Fargo can get a highrise soon.

F-Misthebest
Jun 24, 2006, 7:17 PM
Oh yes.

I was in Dilworth (for all you viewers it is right next to Moorhead) and the Wal-Mart was looking pretty run down so it's good they want to make it a SuperCenter because it would get remodled. I ate lunch at the Pizza Ranch in Dilworth as well. O My Gosh. Best Pizza. Nice atmosphere. I enjoyed myself. I'm glad Dilworth continues to grow and prosper.

F-Misthebest
Jun 25, 2006, 4:27 AM
New Scheel's News

Raising the level for retail
By Teri Finneman, The Forum
Published Saturday, June 24, 2006

A Ferris wheel, a café, an aquarium and a North Dakota State University sports hall of fame – and that’s just the first floor.

After nearly six years of planning and suspense, the new “super” Scheels sporting goods store opens July 1 in Fargo.

The world’s largest all-sports store, at 1551 45th St. S., will take customers beyond what they expect in retail, said Scheels CEO Steve Scheel.

“They’ve never shopped in a store like this. They think they know Scheels, but they have no idea what’s coming,” he said.

The $40 million retail store and adjacent corporate headquarters on the 14-acre site is set up like a two-level mall, with escalators and skylights creating an airy and open atmosphere.

The 45-foot refurbished Ferris wheel is the store’s central attraction, but by far not the only one.

Customers can travel to 82 specialty shops within the store, some enclosed by glass to create a “store within a store” environment and provide more of a secluded shopping experience.

Each “shop” features a different sport or merchandise theme, such as the Adidas, Nike, fishing, skateboarding, archery, women’s athletic shoes and hunting areas.

“If they want it for sports, they’ll find it,” Scheel said, adding selection has increased about 50 percent over what the 13th Avenue South Scheels location in Fargo offered.

“Customers will be absolutely amazed when they walk in there and see the number of items that we have.”

Besides adding millions of dollars of merchandise and expanding offerings, the nearly 200,000-square-foot retail space includes:

- Shooting galleries. In the archery department, archers can try out bows and arrows in a protected area. Nearby, an arcade-style shooting gallery allows hunters of all abilities a crack at practicing their aim.

- Treats. In the back of the store on the main level, customers can grab a snack and take a break at Gramma Ginna’s, named in honor of Scheel’s mother.

The eatery will offer fudge, Starbucks coffee, soups and sandwiches.

- Interactive sports simulators. Customers can test their skills in numerous sports and see how they match up to others.

- Nonsports merchandise and attractions. A home décor shop features artwork and other home accessories. A Tour of Presidents display will provide learning opportunities about the country and its leaders.

- A walk-through aquarium. Twenty varieties of saltwater fish will swim above customers in a 60-square-foot aquarium at the entrance of the women’s footwear shop.

- The Ferris wheel. Scheel incorporated this idea into the Omaha, Neb., Scheels store after seeing a Ferris wheel in Toys ”R” Us in New York City.

The popularity of the ride led to its inclusion in the Fargo store.

The old-fashioned 12-car attraction costs $1 to ride, and customers can buy a picture of themselves taken while they ride.

Scheel said he expected the wheel to be most popular with moms and kids, but has found senior citizens enjoy the slow-moving ride the most.

Trained employees will operate the attraction.

“It’s really fun, plus you can see the whole store from up there,” said Scheel, who has taken a ride on the wheel himself.


Bigger and better

In 1993, thoughts of a super store were far from Scheel’s mind when he opened a 60,000-square-foot store on 13th Avenue South in Fargo.

“At that time, we thought, ‘This is the future of Fargo. This is what we needed,’ ” Scheel said.

A change in thinking began in 1996 when Scheels was preparing to build a new store in Coralville, Iowa.

After visiting a Galyan’s sports store in the Twin Cities, Scheel was impressed with its two-level design and decided to redesign the Iowa plans. The 100,000-square-foot Scheels opened in 1998.

“As soon as we saw the results of that store, we thought, ‘We need a store like that in Fargo down the road,’ ” Scheel said. “At each store since then, we’ve upgraded it just a level.”

Scheel bought the land on 45th Street South for the future Fargo store in 2000, but finishing construction on other company stores was the first priority.

With each store getting bigger and offering more, Scheel said there’s a reason he’s turned to superstores.

“Customers like more. Customers want such a broad array of items that you have to have a larger store to carry that,” he said.

In a smaller store, customers may spend about 20 to 25 minutes, Scheel said. In a store the size of Coralville’s, the time goes up to 40 to 45 minutes.

Scheel predicts the average time customers will spend in the new Fargo store will range from 90 minutes to two hours, “to get in it and see all of the things beyond just the merchandise.”

“It’s more than just a retail shopping experience where customers come to buy something,” he said.

Store manager Bill Nelson called the store “an experience for the whole family.”

“The greatest factor is the people that have put together something different than what Fargo-Moorhead has seen in the past,” said Nelson, who has been with the company for 18 years.

Customers have asked why Fargo was chosen for the massive store, Scheel said. With corporate officials and buyers here, the expanded space can serve as a “laboratory” to try out items to see if they should be added to the company’s other stores, he said.

The estimated 600 Scheels employees in Fargo-Moorhead will also benefit from the new building, with a fitness center and day care incorporated into the separate 60,000-square-foot headquarters contained within.


Looking forward

The Scheels store on 13th Avenue South in Fargo closed earlier this week to consolidate with the new store.

The Scheels hardware store on South University Drive in Fargo will move into this space, tripling its size. Plans include expanding the home décor, patio, paint and barbecue lines. This store will also have a small café.

“We’re taking hardware and home to a whole new level, as well,” Scheel said.

The store in West Acres mall will remain open, as will the Moorhead location.

Outside the area, Scheels plans to open a new store in Eden Prairie, Minn., on Sept. 1. Store construction or expansions are also under way in Great Falls, Mont., Bismarck and Minot, N.D., and Sparks, Nev.

Current and future locations bring the company’s total to 24 stores.

Scheel said there aren’t any master plans on how many stores the company would like to build. Instead, growth comes as the company can afford it.

“The reason that we’re growing is because we have to supply good opportunities for good people that want to move up in our company,” he said.

Scheel, who likes to travel to each company store once or twice a year, estimates two more projects will be selected for 2009. Locations like Kansas City, Mo., Milwaukee and Boise, Idaho, are possible “logical moves,” he said.

Although the new Fargo store may seem big now, Scheel said it allows for growth down the road.

“I expect the next generation to be working in this store and still have plenty of room,” he said. “We built it for the future.”


Readers can reach Forum reporter Teri Finneman at (701) 241-5560


The numbers game

1902:

Year company founded

691:

Parking spaces at new store

100:

Corporate employees

250:

Full- and part-time employees at the new store

3,000:

Scheels employees in eight states

$40 million:

Approximate cost of new store and headquarters

80 to 100:

New jobs added for the new store

600:

Scheels employees in Fargo-Moorhead

24:

Scheels stores (including planned stores)


Scheels company history

Frederick A. Scheel, a German immigrant, used the $300 he earned from a potato harvest as the down payment on the first Scheels store.

The small hardware and general store in Sabin, Minn., opened in 1902.

However, the family considers the true company founder to be his son, Fred M. Scheel, whose passion for retail launched the family success, his grandson and current Scheels CEO Steve Scheel said.

Fred M. Scheel took over the family business after returning from World War I in 1920.

The third generation of Scheels – Fred B., Chuck and Bob – followed. Fred B., the father of Steve, entered the business after returning from World War II.

In 1954, the family incorporated sporting goods into its stores.

Following the family pattern, Steve Scheel entered the military in 1969 and then returned to the family business after being discharged in 1971.

He took over the family business in 1989 and is CEO and chairman. The company has since shifted its focus to sporting goods.

Steve Scheel’s sons, Steve Michael and Brandon, are now the fifth generation to work for the family business.

Brandon manages the Moorhead store. Steve Michael will take over as company president on July 1, with the retirement of Steve Hulbert.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good news for Fargo eh? I'm also glad that we got national cover on the CBS Early Show. I would have gone but I was :lmao: (sleeping: that's the best I could find for that). Anyways I'm glad Dave Price said he really wants to by a house hear.:banana: :banana: He was probably just trying to say good things but it's the thought that counts.

F-Misthebest
Jun 26, 2006, 12:58 AM
About this "1200" people loss. That is complete crap. Then again I shouldn't get mad cause I don't go by the annual estimates that the Census gives out, for annual I go by the city. I think when the 2006-2007 estimate comes out, that we will see (even by the census) that the city of Fargo has actually gained people. I mean really. Woodhaven, Osgood, holy mother of Mary they are geting a lot of people. And I have seen way more SOLD signs around town now then FOR SALE signs. Most sold signs that I have seen have actually been up north and around 13th and University. All the other parts of town I have seen a lot of SOLD signs as well. I think that this year will truly be the beginning of another population boom, especially if this new mall goes in and they finally start and finish this Urban Plains development.

SmileyBoy
Jun 26, 2006, 1:57 AM
About this "1200" people loss. That is complete crap. Then again I shouldn't get mad cause I don't go by the annual estimates that the Census gives out, for annual I go by the city. I think when the 2006-2007 estimate comes out, that we will see (even by the census) that the city of Fargo has actually gained people. I mean really. Woodhaven, Osgood, holy mother of Mary they are geting a lot of people. And I have seen way more SOLD signs around town now then FOR SALE signs. Most sold signs that I have seen have actually been up north and around 13th and University. All the other parts of town I have seen a lot of SOLD signs as well. I think that this year will truly be the beginning of another population boom, especially if this new mall goes in and they finally start and finish this Urban Plains development.

I have kind of a conspiracy theory-type theory as to why the census is fudging up numbers in a lot of places in the Heartland and the Rust Belt (not just in Fargo). But it's kind of a partisan-based theory, and I really don't want to share it now.

F-Misthebest
Jun 26, 2006, 3:26 PM
You should share your theory. I'm sure we would agree with you.

NanoBison
Jun 26, 2006, 8:31 PM
I'd save the theories like that Smiley, (I think I know what it may be...) but the admin don't like politics being talked on these boards... (i think, or is it the Bisonville Board....)

In terms of the population, I would go with what the city figures are in between 10 year census periods. When the official census comes out, we can check that, but if it is heavily under what we think it may be (as it was in 2000), the cities in the metro area can certainly request a reevaluation to correct the figures ( since they are heavily used for planning and trying to lure larger companies here ), as did Fargo shortly after the 2000 census ( I think ).

NanoBison
Jun 26, 2006, 8:39 PM
Hey FM, those numbers you posted on the new Scheels store got jumbled so I fixed them (in case our readers were wondering) :



The numbers game

Year company founded : 1902
Parking spaces at new store : 691
Corporate employees : 100
Full- and part-time employees at the new store : 250
Scheels employees in eight states : 3,000
Approximate cost of new store and headquarters : $40 million
New jobs added for the new store : 80 to 100
Scheels employees in Fargo-Moorhead : 600
Scheels stores (including planned stores) : 24


Hope that helps a little bit...


It's always to good to see a homegrown private company ( stock owned only by the employees ) to grow so large and have a wonderful effect on the area economy. I hope they continue to grow around the nation and one day hit 100 stores.


:banana: :banana: :banana:

NanoBison
Jun 26, 2006, 8:52 PM
Tharaldson sells 130 motels; 200 more could follow
By Jonathan Knutson, The Forum
Published Saturday, June 24, 2006

The Fargo-based Tharaldson hotel company has sold 130 of its motels for $1.2 billion and could sell 200 more by year’s end.

The company’s 300 Fargo employees aren’t expected to be affected, said Gary Tharaldson, president and founder of the Tharaldson Cos.

Tharaldson Property Management Inc., Tharaldson’s in-house management unit, will continue to manage the 130 motels sold so far and likely would continue to manage the other 200 if they’re sold, he said.

Tharaldson said he sold because the thriving national real estate market pushed up the price investors are willing to pay.

“It’s a good time to sell,” he said.

Whitehall Street Real Estate Funds, affiliated with New York-based Goldman, Sachs and Co., one of the nation’s most prominent financial institutions, is buying the 130 hotels from Tharaldson and his family.

The hotels are spread across the country and include a number of mid-range and extended-stay hotel brands.

Only two of the 130 – a Fairfield Inn in Minot and Comfort Inn in Jamestown – are in North Dakota.

Before the sale to Whitehall, the Tharaldson organization owned 350 motels. Tharaldson and his family owned 150 motels, with company employees owning the other 200.

The Tharaldson family is selling 10 more hotels to Whitehall, in addition to the 130 already sold, increasing the deal to $1.3 billion for 140 motels, Tharaldson said.

Tharaldson said he will continue to own the remaining 10 of the 150 motels once owned.

He said his organization also is interested in selling the 200 employee-owned hotels, possibly by year’s end, with Tharaldson Property Management continuing to manage them.

He said it’s premature to talk about possible buyers.

Tharaldson said his organization is planning new hotels and other projects, including a $1.8 billion mixed-use resort in Las Vegas.

Those developments could lead to more corporate jobs in Fargo, Tharaldson said.

Tharaldson, 60, bought his first motel in Valley City, N.D., in 1982.

His company grew rapidly in the 1980s and 1990s, becoming the nation’s largest developer of new hotel properties and the largest independent property management company.





With this new money that Tharaldson corporation now has from that sale, I think they should increase their image, by building a new tower downtown Fargo for their current 300 employees and any new ones to follow from their new developments being discussed in Las Vegas. (Of course they could share the tower with other business, a.k.a. I realize 300 people don't fill a tower...)

Other news about Tharaldson is that he occasionally appeared on the Forbes 500 list of the richest people in America landing at one point with $500 million in assests. I don't know where he sits right now, but it has to be between that figure and $1 billion, since that is the bottom of the Forbes 500 currently this year.

F-Misthebest
Jun 27, 2006, 5:19 AM
Dilworth supercenter site OK’d
By Joe Whetham, The Forum
Published Tuesday, June 27, 2006


The Dilworth City Council on Monday approved rezoning land for a Wal-Mart supercenter, reaching a much-anticipated agreement with its largest commercial tenant.

In a unanimous vote, the City Council approved recommendations from its Planning Commission to rezone and plat 30 acres of land just north of the existing Dilworth Wal-Mart.

The big-box retailer hopes to start construction this fall and open a 215,000-square-foot store by late 2007, said Darcy Winter of D.E. Winter & Associates – a Minneapolis commercial real estate firm working for Wal-Mart.

The new center will be nearly identical to one in Alexandria, Minn., Winter said. In addition to retail services, the supercenter will feature a grocery store, pharmacy, garden center, liquor store and tire and lube center.

The building will face 34th Street North with a massive parking lot to its west. A 6.7-acre strip of land just east of the supercenter will act as a buffer between Wal-Mart and a housing development.
Dilworth and Moorhead are separated by 34th Street.

The developer of a Moorhead housing addition across from the 30-acre site addressed the City Council on Monday with concerns that a supercenter would negatively effect traffic and create an eyesore for homeowners.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2779/boobalala0xx.jpg


Ed Wilson urged the council to work with Wal-Mart and his company – Wilson Investments of Moorhead – to reach an agreement on creating a buffer zone between the supercenter parking lot and Arbor Park.

Wal-Mart has 30 to 35 feet of right-of-way space between its parking lot and 34th Street North, according to plans.

“We don’t want the negative impact of the massive parking lot across from (Arbor Park),” said Wilson, whose housing addition features 150 homes.

Only three people, including a Dilworth resident, have addressed the City Council with concerns about the supercenter.

City officials have embraced the larger store. They say Wal-Mart has been a good commercial tenant for Dilworth.

“I’m not aware of any organized opposition” against the supercenter, City Planner Stan Thurlow said.

Readers can reach Forum reporter Joe Whetham at (701) 241-5557
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good news for Dilworth!:tup:

F-Misthebest
Jun 28, 2006, 4:40 AM
The Edgewood Development in south west Fargo is coming along nicely. They have marked where the streets will be and have brought in the rocks to line the man-made lakes. West Pointe Center, Liberty Square, and the Shoppes at Osgood have made lots of improvements. Shoppes at Osgood are filling in very quickly. The architecture is very nice as well as the landscaping.

F-Misthebest
Jun 29, 2006, 3:20 AM
I just found on this website ( http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_realestate/snapshots/219.html ) that the median family income is $62,250. That's pretty cool I think.

F-Misthebest
Jun 29, 2006, 7:19 AM
Growth will strain interstate
By Mike Nowatzki, The Forum
Published Thursday, June 29, 2006

Residential growth in south Fargo and the growth of the industrial sector and North Dakota State University in north Fargo will put added pressure on Interstate 29 and other north-south routes in the next 20 years, city planners said Wednesday.

Planning commissioners gathered at City Hall for a presentation by Don Faulkner, an NDSU associate professor of architecture and consultant who is working with city planning staff on a 50-year growth plan for Fargo.

Faulkner specifically addressed the “Tier 1” areas expected to develop during the next 20 years in Fargo’s extraterritorial area.

Fargo is home to an estimated 90,672 people, according to a U.S. Census Bureau estimate released last week. Using the current density of 9.8 people per acre in developed areas of the city, the existing city limits could support a population of 134,700 people, Faulkner said.
Using that same density, the Tier 1 areas would add 69,800 people to the city
Planning Commissioner Rick Rayl said the proposed growth plan shows more residential areas in south Fargo and more industrial in north Fargo, which could lead to increased traffic volumes from people commuting from one end of the city to the other.

“I think, in the end, it’s all going to fall on I-29,” he said.

Traffic on I-29 at Seventh Avenue North is projected to increase by 40 percent, from roughly 20,000 vehicles per day to 28,000 vehicles per day, between 2000 and 2030, said Brian Gibson, transportation planner for the Fargo-Moorhead Metropolitan Council of Governments.

Faulkner said there are multiple approaches to the traffic issue, the most obvious being to give employees at the industrial park and NDSU opportunities to live close to work. While the housing potential is limited east of I-29 because of the airport and city lagoons, there is opportunity for development around Reile’s Acres west of I-29.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6060/0629osgood8ta.jpg

Reinforcing public transit with north-south commuter routes also would help to alleviate traffic, he said.

City Planning Director Jim Gilmour said industrial job shifts typically don’t start and end at peak traffic times, and NDSU’s growth has a greater potential to congest traffic.

The 50-year growth plan will probably be presented to city commissioners in July, with approval this fall, he said.


Readers can reach Forum reporter Mike Nowatzki at (701) 241-5528





:)

SmileyBoy
Jul 1, 2006, 11:16 PM
THERE IS NEW CONSTRUCTION TAKING PLACE IN DOWNTOWN FARGO!!! Near the corner of Broadway and 6th, between the 6th Ave. strip mall and the Kaye's Printing Building loft conversion project, there is a storefront slab of concrete that went up connecting the two buildings, and there is a foundation hole digged in the back of it. It's not much, (maybe only a few thousand square feet and 1 storey) but at least my prayers for new downtown construction have been answered!!!

Also, read my blog to hear about the new Scheels superstore that opened today. That place is unbelieveable.

F-Misthebest
Jul 1, 2006, 11:30 PM
Oh my Gosh. The new Scheels is unbelievably extravagant. Im so glad Fargo now has a Scheels that looks like all the rest of them. It is quite an impressive building as well. I was kind of dissapointed by the aquarium but it was neat though. It was so amazing at how many people there were there. I had to go at around 2:30 because I was busy from 9:00 till 2:00. I really enjoyed it.

That is good news about the constuction downtown. It needs to be taller though. We need at least a three story building to be built downtown. O please let there be taller construction. I'm glad that there is construction.

I also picked up the new 2006 Fargo-Moorhead Visitors Guide. I love all the progress that this great city is making.

F-Misthebest
Jul 1, 2006, 11:35 PM
In the Kassenborg building info: The closest space to the river says "LEASED" because Juano's is leasing that for extra seating and the one on the left side of Juano's is going to be a bar.

F-Misthebest
Jul 1, 2006, 11:41 PM
In the Central Marketplace on 45th Street in Fargo has a new 24-7 Fitness Center has opened up. That building has been filling in quickly.

NanoBison
Jul 2, 2006, 6:46 AM
I also attended the Grand Opening of the new Scheels today. HOLY COW!!! That place pretty much blows away anything that Cabela's, Gander Mountain, and Outdoor Sportsman could come up with, not to mention the larger chains like Dick's Sporting Goods. The Scheels store was absolutely immense (as it should be, Scheels is headquartered in Fargo...). The merchandise ranged from the very affordable all the way up to $6,000 carbon-fiber framed mountain bikes to $15,000 rifles. The Fudge Shop was awesome. I couldn't find the Starbucks though. I only walked around for 45 minutes and my family and I sat in the Fudge shop for a while. I'm going back tomorrow to cover the rest of it.

We're only holding the title of Largest Sports Store for a short time though, since they are opening an even bigger store in Sparks, Nevada. Did anyone else who visited the store think, "This is what the next Mall in Fargo should be like". Great atmosphere. I do know they have extra land in the back of the store if they want to expand though...(I think they would build another store though, before they would consider expansion). Holy Cow was traffic on 45th busy today...

NanoBison
Jul 2, 2006, 6:51 AM
THERE IS NEW CONSTRUCTION TAKING PLACE IN DOWNTOWN FARGO!!! Near the corner of Broadway and 6th, between the 6th Ave. strip mall and the Kaye's Printing Building loft conversion project, there is a storefront slab of concrete that went up connecting the two buildings, and there is a foundation hole digged in the back of it. It's not much, (maybe only a few thousand square feet and 1 storey) but at least my prayers for new downtown construction have been answered!!!

Also, read my blog to hear about the new Scheels superstore that opened today. That place is unbelieveable.


I too saw that new construction. The Kaye's Printing Building Lofts are going to be SWEET with those enormous windows. Especially the ones pointing south towards downtown. I just saw a concrete brick wall built between the two current buildings there. I didn't see any signs indicating what was coming though. I'll try to drive by it tomorrow and get some more information.

Here's another question : The spot where Tropics burned down has sat vacant for a while now. Is there going to be something there or not? I know someone had a proposal for a two - three storey office complex to match the Bank building (Fort Knox Bar), but I think those fell through when the developer didn't get 100% of the space leased.

:shrug:

NanoBison
Jul 2, 2006, 7:19 AM
Other stuff I saw while I was driving around today :

Texas Roadhouse looks like it's getting close to finished. Brickwork is coming along, windows, doors and outside finishings.

There is a two storey structure that's close to complete in front of the strip mall next to the big HOM Furniture Mall (I know it's a store, but it's big enough to be a small mall, hence the name).

There is TONS of construction going on in the area next to the Hornbachers by Osgood. New apartments, houses, churches, banks, gas stations, etc...

The Woodhaven development near Microsoft looks like it is getting closed to completion as well. Three story development with Retail, Office and Condos. Apparently most of the land around it has been sold as well, according to the brochure for WoodHaven listed on his Website (http://www.konradolson.com/images/PDFFiles/woodhavenBusinessPark.pdf).

Hopefully soon, I'll be getting a digital camera so I can take some pics. But I have to wait a while to save up for a trip to Philly....


Anyways, that's what I know....

:notacrook:

NanoBison
Jul 3, 2006, 6:28 AM
While I was driving out around town today, I noticed a large building foundation being poured north of Playmakers on 25th St N. Does anyone know what's going in there?

I stopped by Scheels again today. Still busy busy busy. I found the "Premium Rifle Display" room. They had two $35,000 rifles, several $15,000-$20,000, and many $1,000-$10,000. That's more than any vehicle I currently own costs. (Don't judge me on my income, for I buy used cars...)

:tup:

F-Misthebest
Jul 6, 2006, 12:55 AM
If this new mall goes in in South Fargo on 52nd Ave., I believe that is what it will look like.

I went to the Cities for the 4th of July and drove in and around Maple Grove. I want south Fargo to look like that. It has wonderful new architecture with wonderful shops. PF Changs is one of them, we need one of those. They're building lots of new stuff as well. Cost Co, Dick's Sporting Goods, and lots of other things. I want it soooooooooooooo bad.

F-Misthebest
Jul 6, 2006, 1:03 AM
The Midwestern page is now ahead of the Northeastern States. More threads and more posts.

SmileyBoy
Jul 6, 2006, 5:07 AM
I was driving to Taco Bell on 19th Ave. North tonight, and I decided to drive by the new Airport Hilton behind it. It looks like it's almost completed. But another thing I noticed was the real estate sign on the land in front of the hotel claiming "2 RESTAURANT PADS FOR SALE", and there was a sign plastered over it that said "SOLD".

I wonder what those two places will be. I'd bet money that one of them will be a Perkins. I hope we get some news about them REALLY soon.

NanoBison
Jul 6, 2006, 6:25 AM
That's good to here that the restaraunte choices near campus will be expanding. I hope it's not going to be a Perkins. Everytime I've ever ate there, it's a mad rush home to get on the can. Now, if it was say a Champs, Jack in the Box, White Castle, Boston Market or Don Pablo's I'd be happy. I think it would be great to get something up there that is not already in Fargo-Moorhead. With the newer development that's been proposed on 19th Ave N and University, that part of town could really develop into something nice.

Paintballer1708
Jul 6, 2006, 5:27 PM
How many malls do you have in the FM area? I saw a photo thread on Fargo once and the one mall didnt even really look like one. I think they said it was in Moorhead.

NanoBison
Jul 6, 2006, 6:29 PM
Hey Paintballer, I think your refering to the Moorhead Center Mall. It was the product of 1970's urban renewal. It failed miserably except that it attracted a three storey Herberger's which seems to be always busy. Other than that, it's a very old fashioned mall. The other mall in the area is West Acres. It's located in Fargo, along 13th Ave.

Don't get me wrong, the Moorhead Center mall foot traffic is pretty low, but that place has a lot of potential. When I had the chance of meeting with the mall manager, (to propose a website), I didn't get the feeling that individual cared much about expansion or attracting new shoppers.

Here's the two malls :


Moorhead Center Mall (http://www.moorheadcentermall.com/)
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1092/mallmoorheadcenter4to.gif (http://imageshack.us)


West Acres Mall (http://www.westacres.com/)
http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/8867/mallfargowestacres5ck.gif (http://imageshack.us)


The wierd thing about the Moorhead mall is they tied their city services into it, so hence City Hall is located at the mall. United Sugar is as well, which is a business, not a retailer.

We are on course to get a third mall in the area, this one being an outdoors type mall, being built by some las vegas developers. It's called White Oaks. I'm not certain how large the mall portion of the development may be, but the entire project is 275 acres.

F-Misthebest
Jul 6, 2006, 10:30 PM
Paintballer, we have two major malls as NanoBison said with a third on its way but we have a lot (and I mean A LOT) of strip malls with five being constructed. Lots of shopping in town. And the White Oaks Development is now being called "District at the Lakes." Fancy...:D

SmileyBoy
Jul 7, 2006, 1:32 AM
Paintballer, we have two major malls as NanoBison said with a third on its way but we have a lot (and I mean A LOT) of strip malls with five being constructed. Lots of shopping in town. And the White Oaks Development is now being called "District at the Lakes." Fancy...:D

We have strip malls coming out of our ass. It'd be nice if we could finally have a second 100+ store mall in the city. Hopefully that Las Vegas developer will have some good things on the boards for 52nd Avenue.

SmileyBoy
Jul 7, 2006, 1:35 AM
Some other small news: I noticed today that there's something (I have no clue what) being constructed next door to IHOP on 45th Street in front of Home Depot.

And apparently, a chain called SNAP 24-7 Fitness has invaded our city. I now know of three new locations that are going up (Osgood, Eagle Run and Crossroads Centre).

NanoBison
Jul 7, 2006, 3:06 AM
I saw that development next to IHOP as well ( ate at Qdoba's tonight ). It looked like a very tiny parcel of land though that was being developed. I'm wondering if it isn't a possible expansion of the IHOP?

I do agree Smiley, we have strip malls flying out of our butts. I think though, almost every larger American city does as well, unless they have bigtime developers that produce major malls or factory outlet areas.

What I would like to see for the FM area's next mall is a two or three storey structure with 200-250 stores. It would probably be MANY years down the road, once we gained another 25,000-40,000 in the metro area. Otherwise it would put West Acres out of business. I'm thinking it would probably be built on the North end of town NW of the Airport and I-29 (near Reile's Acres). That's where I think the city will start moving once going South gets to be prohibitively expensive.

Here's what I'd personally like to see happen north of the city. I would estimate, the new development could probably hold another 50,000-75,000 people if it was done properly (i.e. some high-rises). (Pardon the size of the image...). I realize it's a VERY simplistic look at what could be done, but that's all its meant to be right now.

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/2930/fargonorthexpansion7rl.gif (http://imageshack.us)


The area marked for "new mall" would be 4 times larger than the West Acres mall blue print. So you definitely would be able to fit quite a bit of stuff in there. Especially new restaurants, shops, Circuit City type places. I would hope that a new mall like that would have decent anchors as well. Maybe a Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales, Banana Republic, ( New 300,000 sqft Scheels... :tup: ), IKEA, etc...

Keep in mind folks this is probably 20-30 years down the road in terms of when a development that size would be finished ( or even started for that matter ).

Any thoughts?

F-Misthebest
Jul 7, 2006, 4:09 AM
Well I'm sure that this new mall on 52nd Ave, if it passes which I think it will, that it will have a Banana Republic and a Circuit City. The Marshall Fields in West Acres is turning into a Macy's this fall so I guess we could have another one I guess. I really hope if it was upscale that it would have a Nordstrom and Bloomingdales. Maybe a Von Maur? If there is three big box retailers in the new mall on 52nd I would like to see Von Maur, Circuit City, and a SuperTarget. I would really like an IKEA and a Bloomingdales. Good idea about the mall. I can't wait for Fargo to grow that much!!!!!!!!!! Which of course it will.

Paintballer1708
Jul 7, 2006, 1:43 PM
Thats good news about the District on the Lakes getting built. When i get out there in August hopefully i can see some of this new development going on. One thing in Pittsburgh is we have so many malls in just one area that they are causing problems. They just built two new malls in the Pittsburgh metro. Some of the problems they are creating are neighbors are complaining of the noise and development some of the malls bring. Traffic is getting much worse. Some of the smart things they are doing is expanding some of the roads to four lanes instead of two. LOL im really not looking forward to the AllStar game coming next week to Pittsburgh. I realize it is going to be bringing in over 200 million dollars but traffic will be crazy. But hey this is good news for Pittsburgh. Next year we will be hosting the US Open.

F-Misthebest
Jul 8, 2006, 4:43 AM
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7398/fargoskyline1kl.png

Isn't that a neat picture of downtown. I like it.

Paintballer, the District at the Lakes is not for sure going to be built but the city commisioners are likely to pass it. Anything good for Fargo that has no strings attached would be good for the city.

F-Misthebest
Jul 9, 2006, 5:24 AM
I heard from a little birdie that Ms. Karen Burgum (I like her, friends with her son) that she is looking into buying the building next to Avalon Events Center, the Strauss Building, and bringing in some high-end retailers from New York, Chicago, and LA. Could you imagine having some amazing retailers that have their headquarters in New York. She said she would remodle the building and bring the retailers.

NanoBison
Jul 9, 2006, 5:41 AM
That would be extremely good for downtown. As long as they are retailers you can't find at West Acres, in one of our many Strip Malls, or Moorhead Center Mall. When you say the Strauss building, is that the one that used to house Hemp and Bead and the Vinyl Connection? I hope so, becuase that building has some decent character to it.

F-Misthebest
Jul 9, 2006, 6:55 AM
http://www.cityoffargo.com/police/NewWebSite/CitizenResources/93to03crimestats.htm

On this think lower on the page has the annual population (rounded) for each year from since 1993 to 2004. It shows that Fargo grows an annual 2,000 people. It's really good to see that in 1993 we had 78,180 and in 2004 we had 98,063.

Nano, the building I'm talking about is located on the north west corner of Broadway and NP Ave. North. It is a 60's modern style building that has tan colored brick. Right across the street from the HoDo.

http://www.cityoffargo.com/Planning/LandUse/Growth%20Plan.htm I just thought that this was neat. It shows the growth plan of Fargo.

F-Misthebest
Jul 9, 2006, 5:49 PM
I went to www.emporis.com and there is some good and bad news. Good news: there are new pictures of the Radisson, High rise, and the Bank of the West. Bad news: for population they went with the census and said Fargo lost 1,200 people which I just don't believe.