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volguus zildrohar
Mar 10, 2006, 8:27 PM
JFK is raised about 2 stories above the level of Market Street and that garage appears to have six levels. It won't be overpowering but it will be a bit odd...to me.

giamomj
Mar 11, 2006, 1:14 AM
The parking lot will rise above the HEIGHT of JFK, as noted. The building will be hot. But maybe no match for new 1441 Chestnut.

Gosh - wish I was a mulit-millionnaire....


Gia

:notacrook:

SouthPhilly
Mar 11, 2006, 1:25 AM
Isn't JFK raised up from the level of Market Street at this point? Depending on how high this garage is...it probably wont go too high over the level of JFK, which is why this garage shouldn't be too bad.

If they can shorten it biuld something on top, that would be cool.
This projects still a go Right?

volguus zildrohar
Mar 11, 2006, 3:43 AM
Yes, it's still a go. Unless they were just planning to dig a big hole and walk away.

SouthPhilly
Mar 11, 2006, 5:01 AM
tradition is tradion

funfamilydoc
Mar 18, 2006, 6:55 PM
First of all, thanks for the guy who posted all of the construction pictures. I bought a condo in the Murano and I live in the suburbs now and don;t get down there enough to keep up on the construction day to day.

Secondly, the garage is going to be 6 stories high. The 6th floor is the floor where the pool and gym will be and the top of the garage is going to be landscaped and will be like a sundeck that residents can sit out on from what I was told. The garage itself is actually not going to be ugly so I don't think it will be so bad. You should be able to enter the garage from Market Street and exit the garage onto 21rst street - kind of back by the Trader Joes old parking lot entrance, I think. They actually said some of that may change as the construction gets further along, but this is what they are thinking now.

litty
Mar 18, 2006, 8:51 PM
funfamilydoc you lucky bastard. I like this top of the garage greeen thing. Very urban and very cool. I cant wait till this one starts rising. This summer will be a very exciting time in philly.

Capsule F
Mar 18, 2006, 8:59 PM
Score one for funfamilydoc, thats good news man.

volguus zildrohar
Mar 18, 2006, 11:04 PM
Great, the city pulls another one back!:)

Welcome, doc.

Philly-Drew
Mar 18, 2006, 11:46 PM
Welcome funfamilydoc,

Nice purchase. I think the Murano, without question, will be a class building and undoubtedly one of the city’s finest. Your views will be amazing, especially at night. I know the views looking towards the Art Museum will be breathtaking!

I also think you're buying at a real good time.

Welcome to the thread doc, nice to have you aboard.

When is the building slated to be occupied?

funfamilydoc
Mar 18, 2006, 11:57 PM
So it's 'woman', thank you :P

They are telling me, as far as move in, end of 2007 hopefully. The latest date they have said is early 2008 but I hope it is sooner rather than later!

:cool:

Swinefeld
Mar 19, 2006, 1:32 AM
What's up, doc? Congrats on your purchase. What floor will you be on?

And please, you gotta throw a SSP party when you move in. :cheers:

2006 is going to be a great year in Philly!

sjones
Mar 19, 2006, 4:53 PM
I was near this site on Thursday night and there were a few pieces of equipment on site, but I couldnt tell what they were doing in terms of excavating. It didnt seem like there was much of a hole there.

drgoogle
Mar 22, 2006, 6:32 AM
The model of the murano parking garage in the showroom looks very nice. I dont think the garage will be ugly. In fact, its design will help Trader Joe's become more accessible. Also, a read of the condo docs suggest there will be access to the garage from JFK.

I was near this site on Thursday night and there were a few pieces of equipment on site, but I couldnt tell what they were doing in terms of excavating. It didnt seem like there was much of a hole there.

buildup
Mar 22, 2006, 6:26 PM
That was my next question! Access to the garage from JFK Blvd. would be much easier than from Market St.

pcp_ip
Mar 23, 2006, 10:39 AM
is this project on hold? As of two days ago the hole has been filled in and the "Murano Coming Soon" marketing sign has been taken down.

sciguy0504
Mar 23, 2006, 5:23 PM
I just walked by about 20 minutes ago and there was equipment in operation at the site. I saw a fabric sign hanging on the fence surrounding the site as well as what appears to be a lighted sign at the corner. Work is continuing, no doubt.

pcp_ip
Mar 23, 2006, 5:50 PM
I could very well be wrong. It appeared that they were actively working on filling the hole in. And the fabric sign was missing. That's why I asked!

I'll walk by it today and take a look.

RayZ
Mar 23, 2006, 6:06 PM
I could very well be wrong. It appeared that they were actively working on filling the hole in. And the fabric sign was missing. That's why I asked!

I'll walk by it today and take a look.

The hole being filled-in has been covered ad nauseum (^...). It was planned (soil mitigation). Murano is still advertizing, and activity (albeit slow) is still occurring.

sciguy0504
Mar 24, 2006, 12:35 AM
I could very well be wrong. It appeared that they were actively working on filling the hole in. And the fabric sign was missing. That's why I asked!

I'll walk by it today and take a look.

Go see the lighted sign, even though it is not lit during the day. It looks pretty cool and I thought it was a neat touch.

bryson662001
Mar 24, 2006, 2:03 AM
It sounds like the garage/pool/sundeck will be north of the tower so it will be partially in the shade?

buildup
Mar 24, 2006, 1:59 PM
Schedules can't be followed with precision so if there is a period where nothing is going on it doesn't mean the project has been halted. Subcontractors have many commitment and there could be a reason not visible to us why work stops for a few days.

CondoGuru
Mar 24, 2006, 5:45 PM
Originally Posted by pcp_ip
"I could very well be wrong. It appeared that they were actively working on filling the hole in. And the fabric sign was missing. That's why I asked!

I'll walk by it today and take a look."

As most of you already know, D'Angelo Bros. is NOT a construction company, they are a demolition company. The Murano will not have an undergroud garage, so there will be no hole to dig. They have been conducting what they call "soil remediation" studies since they demolished the Budget lot which had gas lines for the tanks used to refill their rental fleet. I've been told that the upside is that that car lot was relatively newer so all of the lines were intact and the soil quality was not compromised. Even if it was, they take measures to correct it, albeit at the expense of their construction schedule. The soil underneath the Murano got the thumbs up, and they will be pouring the actual concrete for the tower within a week. D'Angelo is moving out and Turner is moving in. So according to Turner Construction, the company building the Murano, they are actually ahead of schedule with the groundwork getting enviro-clearance. They also built Cira Centre, so I'm glad to know that quality work will be on display at the Murano as well.

Awkab
Mar 24, 2006, 5:48 PM
^ Thanks Guru! Got any inside info on 10 Rittenhouse?

volguus zildrohar
Mar 24, 2006, 6:05 PM
Well that's good to know. There is talk of altering the building's diagram entry. I'll let them know what's up.

CondoGuru
Mar 24, 2006, 6:05 PM
Inside info? Why, what have YOU heard? :) I've only heard a few things about that project that would concern me. They have financing, they have buyers, but they don't have contracts yet. So, at this point, they are only taking reservations, which is fine really; tons of projects do it that way. It's half a dozen of one or the other really.

More pressing are the engineering and equipment issues. The building will probably get built, albeit far longer than anyone would care to admit. You've seen that site, right? Where do you think Turner is going to put its equipment? The quesiton of space is very much a challenge for them. You have to get city approval on everything. They recently got approved on the construction, but not on closure of neighboring streets for their construction traffic. That can have a profound impact on delaying construction of the building. It's a tight space, and there is limited, if any room to store equipment. Other buildings on the waterfront do not have those problems for obvious reasons. Comcast has that entire block, and so does Symphony House. Murano just now got approval to shut down a lane of traffic on both 21st and Market St. These are not minor details, they're HUGE. Getting your equipment and crews in and out can make the difference between 6 months and even one year if you can't get those details worked out.

volguus zildrohar
Mar 24, 2006, 6:11 PM
True. That was a big issue of concern during the meeting for the Barnes Tower on Wednesday. The contratcors would need to shut down a lane on 21st Street for their work which is actually removing a lane of parking in a neighborhood where parking is at an extreme premium.

They are hemmed in at that site. Those are details I would hope a builder with the kind of experience Turner has would work out well in advance.

CondoGuru
Mar 24, 2006, 6:18 PM
True. That was a big issue of concern during the meeting for the Barnes Tower on Wednesday. The contratcors would need to shut down a lane on 21st Street for their work which is actually removing a lane of parking in a neighborhood where parking is at an extreme premium.

They are hemmed in at that site. Those are details I would hope a builder with the kind of experience Turner has would work out well in advance.

It's not Turner, it's the city of Philadelphia. Unfortunately, we live in a city that has bureaucratic red tape with no rhyme or reason. There is no sure fire timeline for ANYTHING that anyone can possibly count on. The sad fact is, they get back to you when they are damn well good and ready, and there's no way of knowing how long that can take. Even something as simple as a city cert can take a month or a year, no joke! Why? Noone knows. Sometimes political connections help, sometimes they don't make any difference at all. It's mind blowing how archaic this city operates and the impact it can have on such amazing projects that will make the city BETTER!

volguus zildrohar
Mar 24, 2006, 6:27 PM
We all know that, for sure. It's easily the wost thing about Philadelphia and certainly the largest thing that has kept this city in the Stone Age. The renewed investment in Center City is happening despite the city.

giovanni sasso
Mar 24, 2006, 7:01 PM
i don't recall seeing these before yesterday ...

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc_signs.jpg

SouthPhilly
Mar 24, 2006, 7:41 PM
Cant they cover the street so traffic can go through an they can put stuff on top. Its done all the time in New York. I am not sure how much weight it can hold. The crane will have to be fully supported by earth. And if these are developers. Then they could buy those other surface lots and use them.

If the city has approved construction and demo of those poor buildings theyll have to give some prividge of this

McBane11
Mar 24, 2006, 10:54 PM
10 Ritt -

i reported a few days ago that i contacted the saleswoman there. she said they are only taking reservations (i thought that was odd) and sometime next week they will begin pinning the rittenhouse club to avoid another 18xx springarden st diaster (where a neighboring building collapsed).

im sure wheeler knows hes on thin ice with the community; if the ritt club collapsed during construction...it could be like one of those southwest airlines commericials - wheeler being chased by NIMBY's armed with pitchforks and lawyers and in the background you hear, "wanna get away? well now you can with southwest airlines new low fares..."

so was she bullshitting me? we should find out next week.

now back to the murano....

volguus zildrohar
Mar 25, 2006, 4:50 AM
McBane, you can slap 10 Rittenhouse updates here (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=97311) in the 10 Rittenhouse construction thread.

God knows it needs the help.

funfamilydoc
Mar 26, 2006, 1:55 AM
So I hear that they start building 'up' strarting the first week of April! Keep the pictures coming!!! :)

CondoGuru
Mar 26, 2006, 7:30 PM
Yes Doc,

I heard the same thing from Turner. They are done with the prep work for the tower, are ripping up the area where the garage will be and are starting to pour the first week of April. I have some friends who know the builders and apparently there will be no fancy ceremony like the one at Symphony House. They're not egomaniacs like Dranoff where the party and the advertising is more about him than the building! haha Nevertheless, it's nice to see the Murano move from the pages of a magazine to an actual building on the ground. I wish more of those cool renderings were actually being built!

williamphilapa
Mar 27, 2006, 1:53 AM
I just realized that the residents on the upper floors of the Murano are gonna look out they're window and see the scrolling highlighted marquee atop the Peco building...well at least sometimes they will.

damn, Nova lost....o'well Soprano's are still on :)

volguus zildrohar
Mar 27, 2006, 2:49 AM
Yeah, that's true. PECO is only two blocks away. I wonder if that will make for any friction...

LostInTheZone
Mar 27, 2006, 4:06 PM
surely something will go up between Peco and the Murano and it wont be an issue, at least, not for this building:)

Joey D
Mar 27, 2006, 8:05 PM
Read some mention of concrete a few pages ago. Is this gonna be steel or concrete core - steel frame?

sjones
Mar 27, 2006, 10:34 PM
I'm glad there is some positive news here unlike 10 Rittenhouse. It makes sense for these projects to start in the springtim so they can get a good 7 or 8 months of construction out of the way before weather becomes an issue. If we can get a ground breaking on 1919 and the Ritz building we will really be moving forward.

drgoogle
Mar 29, 2006, 5:21 AM
Anyone know how sales are progressing at the Murano?

litty
Mar 29, 2006, 2:06 PM
the murano will be a poured concrete structure

volguus zildrohar
Mar 30, 2006, 5:41 AM
Indeed, like The. St James. Another Chicago-style project.

CondoGuru
Mar 30, 2006, 5:49 PM
From what I hear, most builders' lenders will not allow a project to start construction unless they are at least 55% sold. I've been told that the Murano is 90% reserved, which means that probably at least 55% are signed contracts, and the rest are new reservations. You typically see more sales when there is construction taking place on the ground however. I think that's why a lot of these other projects around town haven't moved from the stages of conception to reality. Murano and Symphony are for the moment, the only "Center City" highrise condos actually going up. That being said, some other projects will require astronomically high deposit percentages in order to ensure no cancellations so that their lenders will allow construction to begin before that 55% threshold is met. It's all about dollars and cents. Construction costs rose roughly 25 to 30% this year, so developers want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. If these other projects don't get their acts together soon, they may never happen.

rdm
Mar 30, 2006, 6:32 PM
my landlord designed the PECO building

MJPhilly
Apr 4, 2006, 2:00 AM
No pouring yet - April 2. Hey Swinefeld, let us know if you see anything happening!

http://www.skyscrapersunset.com/projects/construction/murano/images/0604-01.jpg

drgoogle
Apr 4, 2006, 7:46 AM
90% reserved, but only 35% of the units are under agreeement according to the sales agent. I don't understand how its 90% reserved, since they've been saying this for a while, and people only have 2 weeks to decide on their reservations. very werid.



From what I hear, most builders' lenders will not allow a project to start construction unless they are at least 55% sold. I've been told that the Murano is 90% reserved, which means that probably at least 55% are signed contracts, and the rest are new reservations. You typically see more sales when there is construction taking place on the ground however. I think that's why a lot of these other projects around town haven't moved from the stages of conception to reality. Murano and Symphony are for the moment, the only "Center City" highrise condos actually going up. That being said, some other projects will require astronomically high deposit percentages in order to ensure no cancellations so that their lenders will allow construction to begin before that 55% threshold is met. It's all about dollars and cents. Construction costs rose roughly 25 to 30% this year, so developers want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. If these other projects don't get their acts together soon, they may never happen.

CondoGuru
Apr 5, 2006, 7:56 PM
90% reserved, but only 35% of the units are under agreeement according to the sales agent. I don't understand how its 90% reserved, since they've been saying this for a while, and people only have 2 weeks to decide on their reservations. very werid.

I can't vouch for a sales agent's script doc, but I can say that no lender will allow construction to begin unless half the project is under agreement. I have noticed that there has been quite a lot of activity on the ground and D'Angelo Bros. has been getting the site ready for Turner to pour a foundation, so I doubt the builder's lender would allow all that to proceed with 35% under their belt. I called in a few weeks ago and was given a starting price nearly $100K higher than the last time I called...sounds to me like they're selling 'em fast. When we see concrete, we'll know the answer.

drgoogle
Apr 6, 2006, 10:43 PM
I hope you're right about construction but i went to the sales office this past week and they told me "90% reserved, 35% under reservation". I did not see much activity on the ground so I am a little concerned.

I think you're right about 1 BR prices since there is a one on the market now that is in the mid-high 400s. I thought it was considerably less earlier. I don't think the 2BRs are selling nearly as fast though. All in all, its 35% sold as of this past week.

I can't vouch for a sales agent's script doc, but I can say that no lender will allow construction to begin unless half the project is under agreement. I have noticed that there has been quite a lot of activity on the ground and D'Angelo Bros. has been getting the site ready for Turner to pour a foundation, so I doubt the builder's lender would allow all that to proceed with 35% under their belt. I called in a few weeks ago and was given a starting price nearly $100K higher than the last time I called...sounds to me like they're selling 'em fast. When we see concrete, we'll know the answer.

CondoGuru
Apr 7, 2006, 3:03 PM
I hope you're right about construction but i went to the sales office this past week and they told me "90% reserved, 35% under reservation". I did not see much activity on the ground so I am a little concerned.

I think you're right about 1 BR prices since there is a one on the market now that is in the mid-high 400s. I thought it was considerably less earlier. I don't think the 2BRs are selling nearly as fast though. All in all, its 35% sold as of this past week.


DrGoogle, do you have any more inside information that the rest of us don't have? I can't vouch for sales schticks, that seems to be more your forte. I have friends at Turner that tell me what's happening on the ground, plus I live in the Logan Square area, so I definitely have an interest in what's going on in my backyard. Do you work for another project or something? You seem more concerned about the sales of 1BRs and 2BRs than anyone here. I think most of us want to see these buildings get built, because it's great for our city. But I'm glad you're "concerned" about the construction. I will call in again to verify what I was last told and report back.

drgoogle
Apr 7, 2006, 9:56 PM
No "inside" information, just what the sales agent tells the public. I ask about sales because i'm trying to get a feel of the health of the downtown philly real estate market. For some people that is just as important as construction. If that offends you in someway, oh well!

DrGoogle, do you have any more inside information that the rest of us don't have? I can't vouch for sales schticks, that seems to be more your forte. I have friends at Turner that tell me what's happening on the ground, plus I live in the Logan Square area, so I definitely have an interest in what's going on in my backyard. Do you work for another project or something? You seem more concerned about the sales of 1BRs and 2BRs than anyone here. I think most of us want to see these buildings get built, because it's great for our city. But I'm glad you're "concerned" about the construction. I will call in again to verify what I was last told and report back.

drgoogle
Apr 8, 2006, 5:22 PM
Unfortunately, i'm right about sales. Inga Safron's blog says "We hear through the grapevine that the Murano, another well-designed project, is also struggling to meet its threshold for pre-sales"

http://changingskyline.blogspot.com/

skyscraper
Apr 8, 2006, 7:17 PM
Unfortunately, i'm right about sales. Inga Safron's blog says "We hear through the grapevine that the Murano, another well-designed project, is also struggling to meet its threshold for pre-sales"

http://changingskyline.blogspot.com/
Oh, well, if INGA says so....

CondoGuru
Apr 8, 2006, 9:20 PM
Again doc, this is a construction thread, not really about sales. My Turner bros are installing caseons to pour concrete out there next week. So all signs point to things moving ahead. How do you and Inga take your crow? medium? medium-rare? :) I can't quite understand why someone would vehemently assert and hope that any project would "struggle" or not happen. Would that not be a great building to look at in our city? Perhaps not if you're Allan Domb and have a truck load of hotel suites you're trying to renovate and dump off on us all at crazy prices. How are those sales going? Anyone?

drgoogle
Apr 8, 2006, 9:51 PM
Please show me the posting guidelines that says all posts must be about construction. This is the Internet fool and I'll post whatever I want.

Again doc, this is a construction thread, not really about sales. My Turner bros are installing caseons to pour concrete out there next week. So all signs point to things moving ahead. How do you and Inga take your crow? medium? medium-rare? :) I can't quite understand why someone would vehemently assert and hope that any project would "struggle" or not happen. Would that not be a great building to look at in our city? Perhaps not if you're Allan Domb and have a truck load of hotel suites you're trying to renovate and dump off on us all at crazy prices. How are those sales going? Anyone?

donybrx
Apr 9, 2006, 12:08 AM
much to our delight of the rest of us.......

CondoGuru
Apr 9, 2006, 2:53 PM
I know, right? lol I take that back though...maybe not medium or medium-rare, I'm thinkin well-done...in fact, fried to a crisp! :)

volguus zildrohar
Apr 9, 2006, 7:49 PM
Please show me the posting guidelines that says all posts must be about construction. This is the Internet fool and I'll post whatever I want.

It's the Internet but not a democracy. Anything relvant to the building is fair game but this is primarily a construction thread and that will be the focus when construction does start.

McBane11
Apr 9, 2006, 8:07 PM
sales and construction are not mutually exclusive terms. you can't have one without the other. without sales there is no construction, hence the empty lots at 2nd & race and 18th & sansom.

drgoogle
Apr 10, 2006, 6:21 AM
you're jokes aren't funny.

I know, right? lol I take that back though...maybe not medium or medium-rare, I'm thinkin well-done...in fact, fried to a crisp! :)

Swinefeld
Apr 10, 2006, 2:02 PM
sales and construction are not mutually exclusive terms. you can't have one without the other. without sales there is no construction, hence the empty lots at 2nd & race and 18th & sansom.
That's probably true, but then how did Symphony House get greenlighted? Just curious.

Amazing Indy
Apr 10, 2006, 3:37 PM
you're jokes aren't funny.

You're right, they're friggen hilarious!

I think Murano will get built. It takes time to sell a condo of its size. Just give it time, it'll get built.

McBane11
Apr 10, 2006, 5:18 PM
That's probably true, but then how did Symphony House get greenlighted? Just curious.

i always thought that they presold whatever threshold the lenders requested. if not, it probably had a lot to do with the timing, as S.H. was developed at just the right time during the condo boom. back then the threshold was probably less than 50%. that is my guess, anyone know for sure?

also with the "declining market" it would be nice to see developers either rework their proposals or bring forth new ones that better fit the current real estate market. if the market is declining, it is only the market of what is currenty being offered - ultra luxury. while developers rushed and saturated the market with ultra luxury buildings, the entire market for middle income city dwellers (often part of the so called creative class) was completely ignored. i believe we will start to see more towers geared towards this income bracket in the near future. but be warned, these condos probably wont be as architectually exhillerating as the murano, mandeville, etc.

tranceclubbinphilly
Apr 10, 2006, 7:20 PM
... but be warned, these condos probably wont be as architectually exhillerating as the murano, mandeville, etc.

I personally would not care what the building looked like, as long as when I woke up in the morning I could look out the window and see the rest of the Philly skyline in my face. ;)

drgoogle
Apr 10, 2006, 9:44 PM
Hey Indy, how come you guys can't win a playoff game, let alone return a fumble with just the qb to beat. ouch :haha:

Rumor has it there will be a webcam on the murano website for all you contructio folks to follow.

You're right, they're friggen hilarious!

I think Murano will get built. It takes time to sell a condo of its size. Just give it time, it'll get built.

volguus zildrohar
Apr 11, 2006, 1:32 AM
There are cameras set up for Comcast Center and Symphony House. That would be nice, I suppose.

Lincolndrive
Apr 11, 2006, 10:52 PM
There was a lot of action going on at the murano site today. Did anyone else notice that? At least 2 diggers and some other heavy machinery were in high gear. I wish I had been able to talk to someone but it wasn't happening.

Is this the official start?

Swinefeld
Apr 11, 2006, 11:18 PM
^ I did notice that and there were several surveyors surveying.

Amazing Indy
Apr 12, 2006, 3:08 AM
Hey Indy, how come you guys can't win a playoff game, let alone return a fumble with just the qb to beat. ouch :haha:

Rumor has it there will be a webcam on the murano website for all you contructio folks to follow.

What's the relevance to this conversation? Kinda sad that you have to resort to insults to make yourself feel better. oh well.

The Cheat
Apr 12, 2006, 4:39 AM
i believe we will start to see more towers geared towards this income bracket in the near future. but be warned, these condos probably wont be as architectually exhillerating as the murano, mandeville, etc.

Or as tall. Expect middle-class condos to be under 15 stories.

stampy88
Apr 12, 2006, 12:56 PM
I was looking at phillyblog today, and read that there was a lot of activity yesterday at the site. Does anyone have anymore information regarding what was going on?

dingiswayo
Apr 13, 2006, 1:46 AM
I was looking at phillyblog today, and read that there was a lot of activity yesterday at the site. Does anyone have anymore information regarding what was going on?

one lane of 21st street has been taped off. i would presume this is for construction equipment.

volguus zildrohar
Apr 14, 2006, 7:27 PM
It's fenced off all the way to the rail trestle.

April 13:

http://www.pbase.com/image/58642087.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/58642088.jpg

Swinefeld
Apr 15, 2006, 12:15 AM
one lane of 21st street has been taped off. i would presume this is for construction equipment.
There is also a jersey barrier along Market Street. The construction pit is greatly enlarging.

volguus zildrohar
Apr 15, 2006, 3:31 AM
The length of JFK Blvd along the site has the fence posts but not the actual fencing yet.

wanderer34
Apr 15, 2006, 2:02 PM
When is the Murano set to be completed, and I'm glad that there's some proof that they're finally preparing the pit for construction. Thanks, VZ.

Capsule F
Apr 15, 2006, 2:36 PM
Yes I inconveniently found out that sometihng was going on as I tried to park under the womens way bridge and there was no meters there anymore! Yes it is all fenced off, I mean I think thats a good sign.

CondoGuru
Apr 15, 2006, 3:18 PM
Yes I inconveniently found out that sometihng was going on as I tried to park under the womens way bridge and there was no meters there anymore! Yes it is all fenced off, I mean I think thats a good sign.


Same here...I made the mistake of doing a drive-by down 21st St. and got stuck in that one lane of traffic for almost 15 minutes!!!! It's definitely going to be worth it when that sucker is done, but I won't make that mistake twice!

Swinefeld
Apr 15, 2006, 9:34 PM
Pics from today (4/15).

Looking down 21st St.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/Murano1.jpg

This shot shows how much larger the construction area is now.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/Murano2.jpg

jlendo
Apr 15, 2006, 9:56 PM
Yeah they had 21st fenced off on tuesday night i was like what, thats sweet

looper121
Apr 16, 2006, 1:13 AM
Nice pix Swinefeld. How long have those posters been hanging in Commerce Sq.?

sjones
Apr 17, 2006, 10:01 PM
The ads in the paper now say "under construction at 21st and Market Streets".

Cro Burnham
Apr 18, 2006, 1:02 AM
This has to be by the architects of Murano (Solomon whatever whater?):

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/554/632465_east_huron.jpg

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=90749

We Got Five
Apr 18, 2006, 3:24 AM
Thats a beautiful building! Wow!

volguus zildrohar
Apr 18, 2006, 3:44 AM
Solomon Cordwell Buenz is the architect of Murano but DeStefano Keating Partners did 65 East Huron. Still a striking resemblence. Of course, Murano has some resemblence to The Lipstick Building in New York and Highcliff and The Summit in Hong Kong. Everyone copies everyone else.

*sweetkisses*
Apr 18, 2006, 4:51 AM
This has to be by the architects of Murano (Solomon whatever whater?):

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/554/632465_east_huron.jpg

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=90749
That is a gorgeous building. Actually, I think it looks better than the Murano

Cro Burnham
Apr 18, 2006, 6:53 PM
That is a gorgeous building. Actually, I think it looks better than the Murano

I agree. It is beautiful. Chicago has/is getting some awesome stuff.

phillyskyline
Apr 18, 2006, 7:01 PM
[QUOTE=Swinefeld]Pics from today (4/15).

Looking down 21st St.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/Murano1.jpg


From that pic, it shows how desperately that corridor needs some street/retail life, hopefully Murano brings it.

drgoogle
Apr 18, 2006, 7:07 PM
seriosuly, you would have thought commerce square would have brought some restaurants/retail but it didnt. With the addition of 23Condo and Murano (about 600 residents), I would hope someone would convert those porn shops.

[QUOTE=Swinefeld]Pics from today (4/15).

Looking down 21st St.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/Murano1.jpg


From that pic, it shows how desperately that corridor needs some street/retail life, hopefully Murano brings it.

Lincolndrive
Apr 18, 2006, 7:32 PM
One of the fine folks from Turner properties told me that the Caissons (sp?) would be installed starting next week but we wouldn't see the building get interesting (i.e. rising concrete) until late fall of this year. He said there would be a basement mostly for service and storage as well. He wouldn't comment on sales but he said the building is 100% go and for all us skyscraper geeks to rest assured.

Swinefeld
Apr 18, 2006, 7:52 PM
LincolnDrive, nice investigative work! I never doubted it for a second.

seriosuly, you would have thought commerce square would have brought some restaurants/retail but it didnt. With the addition of 23Condo and Murano (about 600 residents), I would hope someone would convert those porn shops.
Commerce Square did bring some restaurants (Marathon Grille, Twenty-21, Salad Works, etc) but unfortunately they are in the courtyard, which is being mangled right now. One of those porn shops (Les Gals?) has a wonderfully ornate Victorian façade. It would be a real asset to the neighborhood if they could be put to a better use. The Alex Ewing designed AAA Mid-Atlantic Building is still up for sale.

sciguy0504
Apr 18, 2006, 8:30 PM
Does the Murano have street-level retail?

volguus zildrohar
Apr 18, 2006, 10:08 PM
sciguy, there will be 9,000 square feet of street level retail - a respectable figure.

phillyskyline, that particular stretch of 21st Street is not inviting to pedestrians at all. Aside from the fact that from Arch to Market you're traveling downgrade and back up again, the shadow of the SEPTA trestle and the fact that most buildings fronting onto 21st are actually rearing (Commerce Square's loading dock is right across the street) it's no surprise nothing is there. South of Market there is a fair amount of street activity (save for the AAA parking lot and the lot behind Papa John's) until Chestnut Street where it gets into the regular swing of things again.

I hope some high minded individuals use The Murano as an excuse to kick some energy into that area. Swiney, I agree that Les Gals II should keep the facade and go for a better use (I'd almost be averse to seeing the Hoagie City sign come down too:)) but those two blocks from 21st to 23rd need a changin'. And a scrubbin'.

SouthPhilly
Apr 18, 2006, 11:39 PM
That area south of market on 21st is all residential town house apartments, a lot of Penn students and people just out of college. It so quit because its all residential. But its not far from rittenhouse so...

Great news on this developement, start diggin.

CondoGuru
Apr 19, 2006, 3:17 PM
One of the fine folks from Turner properties told me that the Caissons (sp?) would be installed starting next week but we wouldn't see the building get interesting (i.e. rising concrete) until late fall of this year. He said there would be a basement mostly for service and storage as well. He wouldn't comment on sales but he said the building is 100% go and for all us skyscraper geeks to rest assured.


That's right LD, "caseons" are the enormous tubes drilled into the ground in which they pour concrete, then lay down the foundation. It will take some time getting the ground infrastructure up and running, but as soon as we start seeing the building take its shape, it'll fly up in no time. Fortunately, this building does not have an ugly garage podium directly below the tower, so we'll start seeing the curvaceous form sooner rather than later.

volguus zildrohar
Apr 19, 2006, 9:09 PM
That area south of market on 21st is all residential town house apartments, a lot of Penn students and people just out of college. It so quit because its all residential. But its not far from rittenhouse so...

Great news on this developement, start diggin.

Between Market and Walnut there is a small collection of retail (as well as the connection to what exists on Chestnut and Sansom Streets right east of 21st Street. At night there is streetlife but it could stand a jump.

McBane11
Apr 20, 2006, 5:21 AM
that whole area west of 21st is fucked! as "ornate" as the porn shop building might be, 3 storey rowhomes have no business on this part of market street.

next time you're in the area, do this crazy trick. stand next to commerce square on 21st and market. look east. what will you see? nice sidwalks with fancy designs, lots of people, tall buildings, trees, energy and vitality. look west and you will see something totally different. cracked sidewalks, old low rise buildings, parking lots and very little street life. 21st street is the clear cut dividing line. no gray area, its black and white. don't believe me or think im exaggerating? go to 21st street and try it. i was looking back and forth for 5 minutes, i was in such disbelief.

what would i do to help the area?

cut out some lanes west of 21st street where there is less traffic and create a grass median (similar to spring garden street and park avenue), clean up the sidewalks and plant trees. this will make the area more attactive and help entice development.

drgoogle
Apr 20, 2006, 8:36 AM
This is true but its only a matter of time though before 21 to 30th will be developed. 21st to 22nd will now have nice lighted, repaired sidewalks thanks to the Murano. The Murano will also conceal a real ugly side of the 2121 apartments leaving the front facade only (which is slightly better).

The PECO building on 24th is so-so but fantastic compared to the area. I heard a rumor that the PECO surface lot (almost an entire city block) is being converted to retail. I haven't read this anywhere but this could be the shot in the arm West Market needs.

that whole area west of 21st is fucked! as "ornate" as the porn shop building might be, 3 storey rowhomes have no business on this part of market street.

next time you're in the area, do this crazy trick. stand next to commerce square on 21st and market. look east. what will you see? nice sidwalks with fancy designs, lots of people, tall buildings, trees, energy and vitality. look west and you will see something totally different. cracked sidewalks, old low rise buildings, parking lots and very little street life. 21st street is the clear cut dividing line. no gray area, its black and white. don't believe me or think im exaggerating? go to 21st street and try it. i was looking back and forth for 5 minutes, i was in such disbelief.

what would i do to help the area?

cut out some lanes west of 21st street where there is less traffic and create a grass median (similar to spring garden street and park avenue), clean up the sidewalks and plant trees. this will make the area more attactive and help entice development.

skyscraper
Apr 20, 2006, 2:11 PM
that whole area west of 21st is fucked! as "ornate" as the porn shop building might be, 3 storey rowhomes have no business on this part of market street.

next time you're in the area, do this crazy trick. stand next to commerce square on 21st and market. look east. what will you see? nice sidwalks with fancy designs, lots of people, tall buildings, trees, energy and vitality. look west and you will see something totally different. cracked sidewalks, old low rise buildings, parking lots and very little street life. 21st street is the clear cut dividing line. no gray area, its black and white. don't believe me or think im exaggerating? go to 21st street and try it. i was looking back and forth for 5 minutes, i was in such disbelief.

what would i do to help the area?

cut out some lanes west of 21st street where there is less traffic and create a grass median (similar to spring garden street and park avenue), clean up the sidewalks and plant trees. this will make the area more attactive and help entice development.
Interesting observation. I haven't tried what you did, but it sounds about right.
I would try to increase traffic there, not just dress it up with trees. I say, add a subway station on 21st on the MFL. The west part of Market needs that anyway. I have always thought that it was ridiculous that there isn't a station between 15th and 30th, and the subway/surface trolley lines don't do that much for density. This would add some vitality to that part of town and encourage more development, especially commercial development. There would be less of a desert between 21st and the river/University City.

looper121
Apr 20, 2006, 5:54 PM
Went by today on my lunch break. LOTS of ACTIVITY. A large crane has been deliverd to the site. They were busy clearing the pit when I went by. very exciting stuff...