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Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 4:03 PM
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/554/6324beitler_telecom_tower.jpg


http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/graphic/2005-10/20149524.jpg



2,000-foot TV tower may pierce skyline

By Thomas A. Corfman and Blair Kamin
Tribune staff reporters
Published October 25, 2005


Imagine this addition to Chicago's fabled skyline: a futuristic, tweezer-shaped broadcast tower looming 2,000 feet over the lakefront as one of the world's tallest structures.

The digital age may soon bring this sleek, scissors-like conversation piece to the city, within clear view of the tourists at Navy Pier who will either ooh with awe or laugh with disbelief.

To be designed by prominent architect Cesar Pelli, the tower would help redefine Chicago's horizon. Rising above the skyline between the John Hancock Center and the Sears Tower, it would usher in a new era of daring, ultramodern architecture for the city. Another sensation would be a proposed Santiago Calatrava-designed skyscraper shaped like a drill bit.

The $300 million Pelli tower would function as a platform for local television stations to mount their new high-definition broadcasting antennas.

Instead of building a conventional building that reserves roof space for antennas, the developers--J. Paul Beitler and LR Development Co.--are proposing the lower-cost option of a needle-thin, triple-spired tripod. At the top would be several floors for restaurants and an observation deck, and at the base would be a 400-car garage. The tapered space in between would be largely open, except for six large beams connecting the spires.

"It is a very intelligent structure," said Pelli, in a telephone interview from his office in New Haven, Conn. He compared the structure to a ship's mast, saying it will be "a very handsome form next to the water."

The proposed broadcast tower, which would be located along Lake Shore Drive between Illinois Street and Grand Avenue, would jump past the CN Tower in Toronto, which at 1,815 feet holds the title as the world's tallest free-standing broadcast tower.

But comparing tall structures is complicated, so much so that it can seem the height of absurdity.

Not a building

For one, the structure could not lay claim to becoming one of the world's tallest buildings because it isn't technically a building--its structure would not be filled with floors as in a conventional skyscraper.

Currently, the world's tallest building is the 1,671-foot Taipei 101 in Taiwan, but other superstructures are under development.

Among broadcast antennas, the proposed lakefront structure is taller than the CN Tower but would fall short of a guywire-supported radio mast antenna in North Dakota, as well as an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico, according to reports.

Beitler, president and chief executive of the Chicago-based real estate firm that bears his name, confirmed the broad outlines of the project, which does not yet have city approval.

"We are not out to have the tallest building in the world, or the tallest anything," Beitler said. "That's simply silly because somebody will come along and build something taller. There have been a lot of tombstones put up for people who proposed the `tallest.' The problem has always been financeability, and we have financing."

The project would be driven by agreements, not yet signed, with local television stations, which are preparing for a shift to exclusively high-definition broadcasting, expected to be required in 2009.

Beitler declined to comment on the status of any talks with broadcasters. Local television stations currently broadcast HDTV and traditional analog broadcast signals from the 1,451-foot Sears Tower in the West Loop and the 1,127-foot John Hancock Center on North Michigan Avenue, where they lease space.

But television executives have long wanted a third option that they would control, and in the late 1990s even floated a proposal for a free-standing antenna mast that would have been located either in the suburbs or on the West Side.

The selling point of the new tower is that high-definition signals need to emanate from the highest, least obstructed point.

Still, the new tower is not a done deal.

Neighbors overwhelmed

In addition to tough negotiations with broadcasters, the latest proposal will likely be an even tougher sell to Streeterville residents, many of whom already feel overwhelmed by new high-rise construction and suffocated by traffic generated by Navy Pier.

The proposed site, which is zoned for a 610-foot structure, is just a few blocks north of a riverfront parcel where another developer has proposed a 115-story condominium/hotel to be designed by Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava that would also soar to 2,000 feet.

As originally proposed in July, the Calatrava tower did not include broadcast facilities. But developer Christopher Carley said he may eventually add broadcast transmission facilities to his project, called Fordham Spire.

"As the time goes on, there is going to be more and more demand for these high antennas, not only high definition," said Carley, chairman of Chicago-based Fordham Co.

He said he has not had any discussions with local broadcasters, and didn't think the newly proposed broadcast tower would affect his project.

Whether the lakefront could accommodate two tall towers so close by would depend on neighborhood residents, who Carley expected would raise several concerns to the broadcast tower.

"It's not the height per se," he said. "It's more traffic, density, blocked views and shadows."

Beitler said the Planning Department has been briefed on the plans.

"I think it would be very dynamic to have two great architects like this put up buildings so close to each other," said Beitler. "I think they are so completely different from each other it would be interesting."

The proposed broadcast tower would be on a 41,000-square-foot site owned by a joint venture that includes LR Development, a Chicago luxury residential firm, and JER Partners, a Virginia investment firm.

Thomas Weeks, president of LR Development, declined comment.

Beitler is a veteran office developer whose projects include the Pelli-designed 181 W. Madison St. and 131 S. Dearborn St. In the late 1980s Beitler and Lee Miglin proposed a "world's tallest" tower for a Loop site, but the deal ended in foreclosure.

Beitler's partner, LR Development, also is co-owner of the site that developer Carley would buy for the Calatrava tower.

----------

tcorfman@tribune.com

bkamin@tribune.com



________________________________________________________________________________________



ANALYSIS

Name should be the Why Tower
Loony, daffy, thin and chunky: Not a pretty sight as viewed from pier or anywhere

By Blair Kamin
Tribune architecture critic
Published October 25, 2005


There have been lots of loony ideas floated for the Chicago skyline, but the proposed 2,000-foot-tall broadcast tower that two Chicago developers want to build along the lakefront, at least in its present form, appears to be among the looniest.

Despite its futuristic curves, this isn't Buck Rogers architecture. It's Duck Dodgers design, utterly daffy, a cartoonish version of tomorrow. As is, the plan would inflict upon the skyline a scaleless hybrid that would be half-building, half-broadcast tower, but nowhere near a satisfying whole.

The plan is far less poetic than Santiago Calatrava's proposed twisting tower, which could rise as high as 2,000 feet a few blocks to the south, and far less powerful than the X-braced John Hancock Center, which offers an unsurpassed synthesis of blue-collar might and black-tie elegance.

One has to wonder why on earth would Mayor Richard M. Daley and his city planners ever take seriously this "Tall Tower"? (Now there's a scintillating name.) Perhaps because there's a towering amount of clout behind it.

Among the developers are J. Paul Beitler, who joined with partner Lee Miglin to unveil the 1,914-foot Miglin-Beitler Tower, a project killed by the early 1990s building bust. This time, Beitler is partnering with LR Development Co., which has built in silk-stocking districts around town.

The developers signed up New Haven, Conn., architect Cesar Pelli and New York City structural engineer Charles Thornton. They designed the Miglin-Beitler Tower as well as the Petronas Towers in Malaysia, which in 1996 stripped Sears Tower of its world's tallest building title.

The proposed broadcast tower, on the west side of Lake Shore Drive between Illinois Street and Grand Avenue, is, at least, conceptually intriguing.

Traditionally, a broadcast tower like Toronto's CN Tower has been the equivalent of an olive on a toothpick--a giant post with a bulge near the top where restaurants and observation decks went.

But this tower would be more like a tripod, with three sets of paired legs and a giant void between them. The legs, whose concrete would be exposed or covered in metal, would taper as they rose. Big concrete beams every 10 to 15 stories would stabilize them. Somewhere around 1,600 feet or 1,700 feet, the legs would form a platform for the "candelabra" of three tapering broadcast antennas, as Gregg Jones, an associate principal at Pelli's firm and a design leader on the project, explained.

The three-legged format is considered ideal for transmitting high-definition television signals. Three antennas. Three legs. It's simple, pragmatic and efficient. Very Chicago. The void between the legs would do more than reduce the wind's force on the tower. It might allow the owner to someday create a plug-in city in the sky, filling parts of the void with offices, condominiums or a hotel, though Beitler said such a plan is not under consideration.

But the design, which places a 400-space parking garage at the tower's base and three restaurants and an observation deck near the top, works neither as a stand-alone object nor as a part of the cityscape.

The tower simultaneously manages to be thin, which is good, and chunky, which isn't. Whatever benefits the concrete legs offer in structural efficiency--a supertall tower of three sides, not the typical four--they look dreadfully bulky. The problem, on a fundamental level, has to do with scale.

One of the reasons the Hancock is such a triumph is that its X-braces break down the monolithic form of its tapering obelisk. But here, there is nothing to mediate between the enormous legs and the teeny, curvy, glass-sheathed forms of the garage and observation deck. Even if the tower is sheathed in concrete, Pelli and crew will have to labor mightily to give it a human scale at ground level. If it is done in exposed concrete, it may look like a rocket launchpad, far too crude for its showcase lakefront site.

Oh, yes, the lakefront.

Is it just me or is anybody else terrified by the prospect of two 2,000-foot towers rising within a few blocks of each other along Lake Michigan? In all likelihood, only one will be built, or maybe neither. But if we have to choose, Calatrava's would be far superior, its dazzling piece of skyline sculpture easily besting this clunky sculptural wannabe.

Why must this tower go here? Simply because the developers have the land?

A prospective synergy with Navy Pier hardly justifies the placement. Yes, tourists might head from the pier to the tower's restaurant and observation deck. But there's one problem: They'd have to look at this rocket launch pad from the pier. And so would the rest of us.

----------

bkamin@tribune.com


Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune

skylife
Oct 25, 2005, 4:49 PM
Eeewww. I don't like the design at all.

Chi-town
Oct 25, 2005, 4:55 PM
Well I guess you could build it across the city somewhere with a giant holographic eye at the top...

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 4:55 PM
Eeewww. I don't like the design at all.

yeah, that seems to be the gut reaction of a lot of people, however, i have some higher detail rendeerings of this thing from several years ago that might change some minds. tom says he has the scanned files and will post them later tonight.

this tower is downright wicked. it's so bad-ass and evil and perfectly chicago. i'd love to see it built, but i was a MUCH bigger fan of its previous proposed location down river on the north bank near the merchandise mart on that hideous riverfront garage that 300 north lasalle is now proposed for.

Chi-town
Oct 25, 2005, 4:57 PM
^ I really hope this plan gets pulled ASAP at the current location. The city should put the clamps on it right away.

The only thing they're going to accomplish is killing the far superior Calatrava proposal.

JACKinBeantown
Oct 25, 2005, 4:58 PM
I like the drill bit a lot more than the tweezers.

chicago
Oct 25, 2005, 5:13 PM
Isn't it pretty ironic that somone proposes a 2,000 foot tower in our city and no one wants to see it built.....

That location sucks.

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 5:15 PM
Wicked look to it, but, ouch on the location.

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 5:18 PM
^^ i want to see it built. i just want it built in a different spot. this thing has been moved around before, initially at the river and lasalle, and then rumors they were eyeing the old 7SD site, and now here on north LSD, so i have hope that the city might balk at this location and force them to find a new spot.

put it at wolf point and i'd be super-happy. it's a fan-fucking-tastic design, so dark and menacing. maybe they will attach some kind of laser to the top that will just randomly zap people across the city down below. a truly terrible tower. we'll call it tyrranophallus rex and our evil sky penis will rule over us with the fear, oppresion, and malice that we peon humans deserve. EVIL.

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 5:26 PM
haha. sounds good.

Chicago3rd
Oct 25, 2005, 5:59 PM
Wolf Point would make it perfect addition to the skyline. We would have a 2,000 footer at the beginning of the Chicago River and a 2,000 footer where the river is split north and south! That would look great from afar.

I just hope we don't get too many 2000 footers....it will look boring having 10 or 20 of them in our skyline! (wink)

J Church
Oct 25, 2005, 6:17 PM
evil sky penis

now that's wicked.

rgolch
Oct 25, 2005, 6:31 PM
Look at the top of it. Could you imagine it spinning. Looks like a torture device. Many of us don't like it because we think it would detract from the FS. But what's interesting, is that I thought many of our more seasoned forumers think the fordham spire is a longshot. So, if FS gets tanked, THEN how would you feel about this tower?

dvidler
Oct 25, 2005, 6:35 PM
I still wouldnt like it, too Sci-Fi for me. But if I could get a clearer image of it then that could change my opinion.

But its not something I want that close to the lakefront regardless.

This will not pass through SOAR and I find it hard Daley will approve of this either.

jcchii
Oct 25, 2005, 6:40 PM
wolf point or south somewhere.

jcchii
Oct 25, 2005, 6:44 PM
a rendering of this and fordham together would show how ridiculous that would look. The designs would just trample each other. Very Coruscant to have them both, though.

I think Kamin is right. One or the other

This new tower looks like it flew in from Dubai to me

Jasonhouse
Oct 25, 2005, 7:02 PM
Wolf Point would be a great spot imo...

Damn, the signals from this thing will probably reach Milwaukee, Rockford, and South Bend. No wonder the TV people are so consistently horny to build such a tower...


One question though... why can't something like this be incorporated into the Fordham's design? (or better yet, why wasn't it from the getgo?)

Chicago3rd
Oct 25, 2005, 7:14 PM
^^
It is strange....when 7SD was in the plans...there popped up a plan to build a highrise on 300 N LaSalle that would be the cities highest and have HDTV antennas. Just strange how all this comes about at the same time each time?

LostInTheZone
Oct 25, 2005, 7:16 PM
slick!

why dont you all like it? imagine the view from an observation deck that high... almost twice the height of ESB, and you can see something like 60 miles from up there. it would be a landmark, it's too slim for the shadow to make much difference, and it wont add traffic to the surrounding area save for the people who would go to the deck. as for competing with the fordham spire, does the chrysler building detract from the empire state? no! two spectacular buildings are better than one.

rgolch
Oct 25, 2005, 7:17 PM
If I could get a clearer image of it then that could change my opinion.



Yep, gotta wait for tom's renderings. I hope it does not do to chicago's skyline what the CN tower did to toronto; I hate the CN tower. If you get close to it, its concrete surface looks so dirty and ugly. This tower looks so much more interesting. But yes, a different location would be better. Given the need for a tranmission tower, this could have a realistic chance of happening.

rgolch
Oct 25, 2005, 7:22 PM
slick!
as for competing with the fordham spire, does the chrysler building detract from the empire state? no! two spectacular buildings are better than one.

I think having two very tall, modern structures so close to each other (and having such a different look than the rest of the skyline) may be what people dislike. The ESB and Chrysler building have more distance between each other. I'll wait to see more renderings before making final judgement. And again, why talk about it in relation to fordham spire? As steely and tom think, FS has a low probability of becoming a reality.

chicago
Oct 25, 2005, 7:42 PM
The problem is that this is literally 100 yds (I checked on google maps) from the Fordham tower. It would be like the old WTC...but taller, and not matching buildings.

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 7:47 PM
Quickie visual with less emphasis on complete accuracy:

http://dallasmetropolis.com/urbantemps/chicago/fordhamspire25gi-edited2.jpg

Segun
Oct 25, 2005, 7:54 PM
http://www.armes-medievales.com/images/UC1385B-Saruman.jpghttp://www.collecttolkien.com/images/Orthanc.jpg

rgolch
Oct 25, 2005, 7:57 PM
http://www.armes-medievales.com/images/UC1385B-Saruman.jpghttp://www.collecttolkien.com/images/Orthanc.jpg

That makes me want it even more.

rgolch
Oct 25, 2005, 7:58 PM
Quickie visual with less emphasis on complete accuracy:

http://dallasmetropolis.com/urbantemps/chicago/fordhamspire25gi-edited2.jpg

Not as bad as I thought.

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 8:00 PM
Quickie visual with less emphasis on complete accuracy:

http://dallasmetropolis.com/urbantemps/chicago/fordhamspire25gi-edited2.jpg

nice work, troy.

is there anyway you could manipulate the image so that the Tall Tower stood immediately south of the river from fordham spire? i would think that these two fanciful behemoths on opposite banks of the river mouth would create one hell of a gateway statement, like something out of ancient mythology.

HowardL
Oct 25, 2005, 8:03 PM
slick!

why dont you all like it? imagine the view from an observation deck that high... almost twice the height of ESB, and you can see something like 60 miles from up there. it would be a landmark, it's too slim for the shadow to make much difference, and it wont add traffic to the surrounding area save for the people who would go to the deck. as for competing with the fordham spire, does the chrysler building detract from the empire state? no! two spectacular buildings are better than one.
Hmm, I think you may have swayed my thinking a bit. This morning I wasn't digging it too much. But you do have a point, you do.

LMich
Oct 25, 2005, 8:05 PM
I guess I'm the only one that likes it. I'm not a fan of twisting towers, at all. Still, everyone's right about the location.

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 8:07 PM
I guess I'm the only one that likes it.
that's not true at all (did you even bother to read my post where i likened it to a giant evil sky penis ;) ), many in this thread have said that they like the tower (myself included), it is merely the location that most are concerned about.

LostInTheZone
Oct 25, 2005, 8:22 PM
in that rendering showing the two of them, i think they look nice and balanced. theyre similar proportions. i do agree that it would be much better to have them on either sides of the mouth of the Chicago river. that would be an awsome gateway.

Stu
Oct 25, 2005, 8:28 PM
I've been waiting for this design since Steely first mentioned it a few years back. Back when it was clandestined information. :D

It is not disapointing. Looks more skyscraperish than telecom tower, which is good IMO. The location, from the quick rendering above, with Fordham, is actually awesome IMO. Kind of a King and Queen chessboard effect.

Me want close-up renderings.

jcchii
Oct 25, 2005, 8:31 PM
I think HDTV likely will wind up in fordham plans.

conspiracy theory would point to the last line of the Trib story:

"Beitler's partner, LR Development, also is co-owner of the site that developer Carley would buy for the Calatrava tower."

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 8:35 PM
I've been waiting for this design since Steely first mentioned it a few years back. Back when it was clandestined information. :D

yeah, i first saw plans for this tower roughly 3 years ago, but was more or less sworn to secrecy, all i was allowed to give out at the time were those vague and cryptic messages. it's been so long since i've heard anything about it that i simply asumed it was dead. fortunately, i was wrong.






Me want close-up renderings.
tom said that he probably still has the old scans from the B&W elevations and renders i had. he's gonna look for them when he gets home from work and post them.

rgolch
Oct 25, 2005, 8:38 PM
Kind of a King and Queen chessboard effect.



Excellent analogy!

Stephenapolis
Oct 25, 2005, 8:42 PM
I really like it. At first I did not like the location. Not completely sure if I still do. But it does give a gateway appearance. If they do not want it in Chicago, they could always put it in Minneapolis. ;)

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 8:43 PM
Come home from a bad day and BAM! Another 2000 ft building.

JACKinBeantown
Oct 25, 2005, 8:51 PM
These two towers, along with Trump and the others at or around 1,000 feet would definitely make Chicago's skyline the most impressive in the world. Dubai would have the tallest building and others that are tall, but Chicago would have six or seven supertalls.

Daquan13
Oct 25, 2005, 8:53 PM
I wonder what Trump has to say about THIS one.

yoyoniner
Oct 25, 2005, 8:58 PM
If I read that article correctly, it looks like all the financing are already in place? Is that right?

So is this pretty much a for sure go? What are the hurdles?

Oh yeah.... was it also mentioned when they want to break ground? We know Carley wants to break ground in Spring for the Fordham Spire.... what about Beitler with this Tower?

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 8:59 PM
"I wouldn't feel safe having my broadcasting equipment on that tower"

-Donald Trump

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 9:02 PM
This one for Steely. . . something sorta like this?

First image in this post replaced with this:
http://dallasmetropolis.com/urbantemps/chicago/fordhamspire25gi-gatewayversionedited2.jpg

some_stupid_nut
Oct 25, 2005, 9:06 PM
I think its kind of ugly. If they need antennas they should just build 7SD.

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 9:07 PM
^^ yeah troy, something like that. if Tall Tower were gonna go right on the river bank, though, it would have to move a wee bit farther north, closer to fordham.

Pandemonious
Oct 25, 2005, 9:10 PM
Wow, If Trump and Waterview were added to that above image, it would frame out the river awesomely.

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 9:12 PM
I'm still wondering what Trump is going to do for his exterior lighting. He better have something pretty cool.

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 9:12 PM
Steely, a bit better the second time? Maybe still a bit too far. (Edited in a comparison above.)

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 9:15 PM
^yeah, now you're on the trolley!

what a wicked river mouth gateway that pair would make! damn!

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 9:16 PM
Man- that is right out of Star Wars. Imagine what kind of lighting effects and shit you could do with such a gateway.

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 9:17 PM
That would be immensely wicked for sure.

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 9:19 PM
Did you guys see this on Archidose???

http://www.archidose.org/Blog/tweezer-spireLG.jpg

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 9:21 PM
Sweet.

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 9:22 PM
^^ thanks spyguy, i don't hate the location of this tower as much as i initally did.

LostInTheZone
Oct 25, 2005, 9:25 PM
im really liking this thing.

CTroyMathis
Oct 25, 2005, 9:26 PM
^^ Nor do I actually.


( Another looky for another page: )

http://dallasmetropolis.com/urbantemps/chicago/fordhamspire25gi-edited2.jpg

M II A II R II K
Oct 25, 2005, 9:27 PM
For the sake of the skyline this is certainly impressive.

But the 2000 footer proposals seem somewhat similar in shape in Chicago, whether it be 7SD, Project 2000, and this.

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 9:31 PM
Haha. Lynn Becker gave us a shoutout:

The Beitler tower is less a building than a gargatuan piece of infrastructure. Placed amidst the railyards in a city or a suburb, it would be a marvel of engineering. Placed in the heart of Chicago's downtown, it's merely an eyesore. It's a throwback to the days when cities trashed their downtowns by stuffing them beneath the dark shadows of elevated expressways. It's hard to see the general public embracing this proposal. Even on an architecture forum like skyscraperpage.com, where there's usually unbridled enthusiasm for anything tall, discussion over the Beitler tower has been markedly cool.


http://lynnbecker.com/repeat/beitlertower/beitlertower.htm

Unbridled enthusiasm...I enjoyed how she made us look like a bunch narrow-minded idiots and that we just accept any piss-poor design that is tall.

Chicago3rd
Oct 25, 2005, 9:33 PM
http://wilthe3rd.smugmug.com/photos/41547699-L.jpg

Steely Dan
Oct 25, 2005, 9:34 PM
Unbridled enthusiasm...I enjoyed how she made us look like a bunch narrow-minded idiots and that we just accept any piss-poor design that is tall.

well, if you were an outsider who did not share our same level of passion for reaching the sky, it would be an easy conclusion to reach.

i, however, am more interested in this tower for its malevolent soul, than i am in its height. it's been decades since chicago has maliciously erected anything with a straightforward aura of evil and doom, and as a fan of the dark side, i say it's high time we change our current track record of "pleasantness".

sentinel
Oct 25, 2005, 9:46 PM
oh you beat me spyguy. damn you to Mordor!!! :nuts:

Stu
Oct 25, 2005, 9:46 PM
Whoa... amazing. I can see Lake Point Tower residents bitching about this though.

Pandemonious
Oct 25, 2005, 9:51 PM
^It wont really be blocking their view of anything...

Chase Unperson
Oct 25, 2005, 9:56 PM
I like Lynn Becker and I think she has some thoughtful comments on the tower.

I agree with her. Put it out in the sticks or bring back a mixed use project like 7sd.

Stu
Oct 25, 2005, 9:59 PM
Tower of Sorrow would be an amusing name for it.

jcchii
Oct 25, 2005, 10:16 PM
It looks alot like 7SD in that axonometric rendering up there^

the urban politician
Oct 25, 2005, 10:21 PM
i, however, am more interested in this tower for its malevolent soul, than i am in its height. it's been decades since chicago has maliciously erected anything with a straightforward aura of evil and doom, and as a fan of the dark side, i say it's high time we change our current track record of "pleasantness".

^That would make its placement next to the Fordham Spire even more powerful, since Fordham Spire is the polar opposite--bright, shiny, and voluptiously beautiful.

It's almost as if the Fordham Spire is the soft-spoken good girl and the TV Tower is her bad-ass boyfriend

STR
Oct 25, 2005, 10:24 PM
No sir, I don't like it.

It's okay (just okay, not great not awful) right up to the top of the observation area. Then, it loses me in some knock-off-of-the LotW-style antenna farm.

EDDYC
Oct 25, 2005, 10:33 PM
Design: seems promising enough so far.

Location in skyline: needs another site, maybe somewhere on the South Side.

Tom In Chicago
Oct 25, 2005, 10:42 PM
i, however, am more interested in this tower for its malevolent soul, than i am in its height.

I'm with Steely on this one. . . it's looks pretty fuckin' evil. . . and, therefore, should be built. . .

canucklehead2
Oct 25, 2005, 10:47 PM
I looks like Chicago will continue to be THE Skyscraper Capital of America. Good on ya! I hope it gets built, as with the other unbuilt or dormant proposals. Could someone please compile a list of every unbuilt and proposed Chicago building over 1000 feet? There has to be at least 2 dozen.

Personally I would love to see the tower from I, Robot, realized. Anyone gotta pic of that one?

spyguy
Oct 25, 2005, 10:51 PM
Go to Emporis for those unbuilts.
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3302/chicago20359hp.png

emoney
Oct 25, 2005, 11:08 PM
Am I the only one who just doesnt like this tower based on the fact that the only purpose is to transmit it seems like that such a great location should be a place to live or work the design seems fine its just that the center should be filled with offices or condos. Like the design like i said but wish more people could enjoy the whole structure.

(waste of space)

LMich
Oct 25, 2005, 11:16 PM
I don't mind that at all. In fact, it would be great to see Chicago get an architecturally distinct piece of vertical infastructure instead of everything going up having to be a high-rise office or residential tower.

NYguy
Oct 25, 2005, 11:20 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/thumbnails/blurb/2005-10/20149508.jpg


http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/graphic/2005-10/20149524.jpg



2,000-foot TV tower may pierce skyline

"We are not out to have the tallest building in the world, or the tallest anything," Beitler said. "That's simply silly because somebody will come along and build something taller. There have been a lot of tombstones put up for people who proposed the `tallest.' The problem has always been financeability, and we have financing."

The project would be driven by agreements, not yet signed, with local television stations, which are preparing for a shift to exclusively high-definition broadcasting, expected to be required in 2009.


Seems the 2 major differences between this proposal and 7SD are the financing and city approval, only reversed. It also seems like more of a possibility than the Fordham.

However, the Fordham Spire together with this broadcast tower just looks silly. If approved, the broadcast tower needs to be redesigned. Bring back the Hancock and Sears towers. Those buildings look more impressive.

FlyersFan118
Oct 25, 2005, 11:30 PM
you bastards are getting too many big towers.

We're all happy to find a 400 footer (Which we have many of, mind you) and you've got like all these towers proposed over 1000 feet...and TWO at 2000 feet.

Our tallest is gonna be 975 feet! WTF!?! lol


lucky bastards...it's not too bad I guess...

Ecker
Oct 25, 2005, 11:34 PM
I think a conspicuous tower whose main purpose is to house TV antennae just trashes up the place. It'd be like having one of those big ass satellite dishes on the front lawn of a stately North Shore home. I'd like to see a tower that contributes to the density and urbanity of the city. I don't want a 2,000' gimmick/tourist trap on Chicago's shore.

By the way, Lynn Becker is a male (or at least refers to herself using masculine pronouns).

iamrobk
Oct 25, 2005, 11:55 PM
Wow, I personally really like this design. Actually, I like it better than the Fordham Spire.

Chase Unperson
Oct 25, 2005, 11:55 PM
^Didn't know that.

NYguy
Oct 26, 2005, 12:04 AM
I think a conspicuous tower whose main purpose is to house TV antennae just trashes up the place. It'd be like having one of those big ass satellite dishes on the front lawn of stately North Shore home. I'd like to see a tower that contributes to the density and urbanity of the city. I don't want a 2,000' gimmick/tourist trap on Chicago's shore.


I'm surprised the people in Chicago think this is an improvement:

http://dallasmetropolis.com/urbantemps/chicago/fordhamspire25gi-edited2.jpg

Maybe it works if you take out the Fordham Spire.

spyguy
Oct 26, 2005, 12:17 AM
Or maybe it works with them both.

M II A II R II K
Oct 26, 2005, 12:42 AM
Hopefully at least odds are that at least one of them shall materialize.

Jularc
Oct 26, 2005, 12:42 AM
:eek: WOW!!!

I like this new tall one!!! I am not sure if thats a good location... maybe if it was setback somewhere in the middle from that location with of all the other buildings around it.

But what that hell... Built the thing!!! :)

STERNyc
Oct 26, 2005, 1:18 AM
Im pretty sure the design people are praising or bashing isnt the design that will be built, am I correct in thinking the actual structure is yet to be designed?

spyguy
Oct 26, 2005, 1:18 AM
SSC brought up the good point that the current location of this tower would get rid of 500 LSD lot. Man, I really want to see what that tower looks like!

LMich
Oct 26, 2005, 1:27 AM
Im pretty sure the design people are praising or bashing isnt the design that will be built, am I correct in thinking the actual structure is yet to be designed?

Almost any building looks differently from it's prelim, released design. That's a given. But, obviously the concept shows a few guidelines and general massing. It's not going to change thaat much.

Chicago2020
Oct 26, 2005, 2:07 AM
If they are planning to build this thing, it will be taller than the CN Tower in Toronto.

With Navy Pier nearby, and the possibility of the Fordham Spire being built, this whole area will be congested with traffic, security and tourists.

Maybe they should build it next to the new Suntimes building:???:

Crazy Ivan
Oct 26, 2005, 2:11 AM
What interests me is the depreciated cash flow for this investment. Is there that large of a revenue stream from signal broadcasting that they can justify the expense of such a massive structure? It seems to me that it would make more sense to build something under it (such as the Fordham) that generates revenue, and then just put a few antennae on top.

STERNyc
Oct 26, 2005, 2:12 AM
Im pretty sure the design people are praising or bashing isnt the design that will be built, am I correct in thinking the actual structure is yet to be designed?

Almost any building looks differently from it's prelim, released design. That's a given. But, obviously the concept shows a few guidelines and general massing. It's not going to change thaat much.

Im under the impression that this isn't Cesar Pelli's design rather a design created by the paper that released it.

Chicago2020
Oct 26, 2005, 2:21 AM
Isengard has been Unleashed

Lecom
Oct 26, 2005, 2:21 AM
Looks like the guys in Chicago decided to recreate the city the way it was in I, Robot.

Well, you know all those buildings in "the future"? Well someone's gotta start building them, right?

northface
Oct 26, 2005, 2:34 AM
i like it!

spyguy
Oct 26, 2005, 2:38 AM
Im pretty sure the design people are praising or bashing isnt the design that will be built, am I correct in thinking the actual structure is yet to be designed?

Almost any building looks differently from it's prelim, released design. That's a given. But, obviously the concept shows a few guidelines and general massing. It's not going to change thaat much.

Im under the impression that this isn't Cesar Pelli's design rather a design created by the paper that released it.

You could be correct. I'm not sure if this is a Pelli design or what. Perhaps they (like Tom) had old renderings of the same kind of building and used those.

Beyond 1000
Oct 26, 2005, 2:39 AM
Nice! I like it but it might look wierd by Fordham.

Nice to be able to view higher than Sears' roof (if built).

About the newspaper articles, those guys are morons.

As a built thing it IS a building just like CN. I don't honestly care about the multi-floor dumb-ass rule. They don't even call CN a "skyscraper" as if it doesn't qualify to appear to "scrape the sky."

This new tower will look splendid on the Chicago skyline and it will be that city's tallest skyscraper. I would take that over that glorified candy cane proposed nearby.

Chad
Oct 26, 2005, 2:51 AM
I think 2 slim spires located to close to eachother...maybe move on to Museum Park might make a surplus to Chicago skyline instead of lowing the beauty down.

Jasonhouse
Oct 26, 2005, 2:55 AM
Wow, If Trump and Waterview were added to that above image, it would frame out the river awesomely.


Throw in the Mandarin Oriental and the LSE at build out, and that's a sick ass build up in the middle of the skyline. NYC and HK, eat your heart out.


However, if this project really does get built, and built where it's proposed, then it had well better NOT look like it does. Nothing would suck more than 1300ft of bare, industrial looking concrete, with a couple pods of cutesy glass thrown on at either end, and 3 massive, blinking antennas on top. It would look like a fricking concrete bridge, cantilevered out of the ground.

It would be much, much more attractive to at least hang some occupabale space in regular intervals all the way up the structure, kinda sorta like a cross between the defunct 7SD and Calatrava's proposal for 80 South St in NYC.

M II A II R II K
Oct 26, 2005, 3:05 AM
Catching Dubai is another story....

But at least this shows this side is not dead.

Jasonhouse
Oct 26, 2005, 3:10 AM
^Dubai's skyline is going to have way too much of the "tower in the park", resort style open space thing going on IMO. That city will have tall towers, but numerous other global cities will have true arbanity.


but NEways.

LA21st
Oct 26, 2005, 3:10 AM
Wow, If Trump and Waterview were added to that above image, it would frame out the river awesomely.


Throw in the Mandarin Oriental and the LSE at build out, and that's a sick ass build up in the middle of the skyline. NYC and HK, eat your heart out.


However, if this project really does get built, and built where it's proposed, then it had well better NOT look like it does. Nothing would suck more than 1300ft of bare, industrial looking concrete, with a couple pods of cutesy glass thrown on at either end, and 3 massive, blinking antennas on top. It would look like a fricking concrete bridge, cantilevered out of the ground.

It would be much, much more attractive to at least hang some occupabale space in regular intervals all the way up the structure, kinda sorta like a cross between the defunct 7SD and Calatrava's proposal for 80 South St in NYC.

Not to mention the unlimited potential of new skyscrapers that will rise on Wabash Avenue for the next few decades and beyond. There is a proposal for 80 and 70 at the moment, and it is just begining.

Oh yea, there is a 80 story building proposed for LSE too.:nuts: :crazy:

spyguy
Oct 26, 2005, 3:24 AM
If Fordham and this Tall Tower are built, the only one that can be moved is the Tall Tower really. Once you change the location of Fordham to something on the south side it's won't happen at all. One of Calatrava's sticking points was that Carley find a waterfront property.

LMich
Oct 26, 2005, 6:02 AM
Man, I'd love if they'd go with painted, black metal (a la the Eiffel Tower), or clad it in black granite. Both ideas are far too expensive for modern architecture, though. lol