Tucson Development Thread

[Anqrew]

The building next to Claim Jumper is going to be a Mattress Firm. The lot across from Starbuck's is evidently this: http://www.cheddars.com/

Is it just me or are these Mattress Firm stores EVERYWHERE?! But I was curious what was going on. I also noticed the McDonalds on speedway and Campbell was torn down, apparently they're rebuilding it. So that in combination with the redevelopment of that corner should be nice.

[Ted Lyons]

Is it just me or are these Mattress Firm stores EVERYWHERE?! But I was curious what was going on. I also noticed the McDonalds on speedway and Campbell was torn down, apparently they're rebuilding it. So that in combination with the redevelopment of that corner should be nice.

There are a lot of Mattress Firms. It will only get worse with their acquisition of Bedmart.

In regard to Cheddar's, I don't eat at chains much but they seem to have really high food quality ratings and the buildings are supposedly very nice.

[Ritarancher]

The building next to Claim Jumper is going to be a Mattress Firm. The lot across from Starbuck's is evidently this: http://www.cheddars.com/

The mattress bubble in this city is going to bust soon...

[aznate27]

Claim jumper is rarely busy, I wonder how it will do.

Um, what? Claim Jumpers is always busy. I was just there and it was busy. They have waits every weekend and that place is huge.

[andrewsaturn]

LOL yes isn't there one already on Broadway and craycroft? They must be doing well to open up so many here. :haha:

[andrewsaturn]

Um, what? Claim Jumpers is always busy. I was just there and it was busy. They have waits every weekend and that place is huge.

Ditto. Every time I go its busy. But the times I do go are on the weekends during the evenings which are always the peak times.

[farmerk]

The mattress bubble in this city is going to bust soon...

Unlikely with the huge number of elderly. Beds, dentures, walgreens, clapper and prune juice is big business in this 'town'

[farmerk]

Um, what? Claim Jumpers is always busy. I was just there and it was busy. They have waits every weekend and that place is huge.

Claim Jumpers and a grocery store at downtown west would be useful for the streetcar. That would make 3 grocery stores within the streetcar route. I personally like to shop to different grocery stores each month.

[Qwijib0]

Um, what? Claim Jumpers is always busy. I was just there and it was busy. They have waits every weekend and that place is huge.

I guess I just eat at odd hours. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[garygeo]

I received a letter in the mail describing a re-zoning request for a new resort on the east side of town. The resort would be oriented toward bicycle enthusiast. Personally, I think it is an interesting idea and if done right could be a nice addition to the area. I of course don't live next to it.

Today, on the drive home I saw a sign and 2 men with a petition, on Escalante and Houghton, to get public support to oppose the re-zoning.

http://s30.postimg.org/r0b1mo4hp/IMG_20140514_200948844_cropped.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/r0b1mo4hp/)
http://s30.postimg.org/76yxtyr3x/IMG_20140514_200934620_cropped.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/76yxtyr3x/)
http://s30.postimg.org/gssia9i9p/IMG_20140514_200959168.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/gssia9i9p/)

[farmerk]

@garygeo, Didn't know there's such thing as a bike resort. I hope that bike resort looks nice. Tucson , a biking mecca, could use one.

Buffalo Exchange closing downtown Tucson store (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/buffalo-exchange-closing-downtown-tucson-store/article_d31f9d5e-f9e3-59f4-985e-c2441b75cbc1.html). That's the bad news.

The good news - "Michael Keith, CEO of the Downtown Tucson Partnership. “It’s becoming increasingly clear we need to address how to sustain and expand retail downtown and what programs we might put in place to do that.”

Answer : Urban Target or Walmart.

Something like this downtown west
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kZeZ10Goak8/UqCx6kzRI7I/AAAAAAAAA64/avZjOnLVkUc/s1600/AAA+Blog+DC-Walmart+-+H+Street.jpg

[Ritarancher]

I received a letter in the mail describing a re-zoning request for a new resort on the east side of town. The resort would be oriented toward bicycle enthusiast. Personally, I think it is an interesting idea and if done right could be a nice addition to the area. I of course don't live next to it.

Today, on the drive home I saw a sign and 2 men with a petition on Escalante and Houghton to working getting public support to oppose the re-zoning.

http://s30.postimg.org/r0b1mo4hp/IMG_20140514_200948844_cropped.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/r0b1mo4hp/)
http://s30.postimg.org/76yxtyr3x/IMG_20140514_200934620_cropped.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/76yxtyr3x/)
http://s30.postimg.org/gssia9i9p/IMG_20140514_200959168.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/gssia9i9p/)

How old and white were the protesters? They're just upset there isn't another Matter Firm

[farmerk]

El Con Mall may be sold; announcement expected early next week (http://azstarnet.com/news/business/el-con-mall-may-be-sold-announcement-expected-early-next/article_c08b16d1-7d7f-5eb6-b482-5505d693ea0e.html)

I hope the new owners replace this mall with something more modern.

[Ted Lyons]

El Con Mall may be sold; announcement expected early next week (http://azstarnet.com/news/business/el-con-mall-may-be-sold-announcement-expected-early-next/article_c08b16d1-7d7f-5eb6-b482-5505d693ea0e.html)

I hope the new owners replace this mall with something more modern.

There is literally 0% chance the mall is "replaced." This is ridiculous.

[aznate27]

El Con Mall may be sold; announcement expected early next week (http://azstarnet.com/news/business/el-con-mall-may-be-sold-announcement-expected-early-next/article_c08b16d1-7d7f-5eb6-b482-5505d693ea0e.html)

I hope the new owners replace this mall with something more modern.

Dude, When was the last time you were there??? It's practically brand new. No one's going to replace anything, I agree with Ted.

[farmerk]

Dude, When was the last time you were there??? It's practically brand new. No one's going to replace anything, I agree with Ted.

If you're referring to the old mall building, you're right I haven't been in there in years. That's the one I want replaced. I don't like that building

[farmerk]

There is literally 0% chance the mall is "replaced." This is ridiculous.

Nope. Disagree.

That area has been de-malled last few years with Target, Home Depot, Starbucks, Walmart etc... around the mall building proper. I won't be surprised if that building gets demolished with a new building.

The owner Kroenke has an estimated worth of $5.6 billion. He's no local developer.

"Kroenke is married to Walmart founder Sam Walton’s daughter, Ann Walton"

So there's literally greater than 0% chance that mall being replaced.

EDIT:
I believe we got our "Elon Musk" in Tucson. Who knows what Kroenke , a Walton, could do in Tucson. I did a wiki on this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Kroenke) - "he has been in the special position to develop many of the plazas near Wal-Mart stores". Silent Stan is into sports and real estate - arena in Tucson? Apartment high rise in downtown old pueblo? A billionaire interested in Tucson is a big deal and unheard of in a very long time. The last billionaire interested in Tucson made a very huge foot print in our economy - Howard Hughes .

EDIT Part 2:
Might wanna google "Stan Kroenke". He deals with large projects on a global scale. He's also a recluse.

[Ted Lyons]

If you're referring to the old mall building, you're right I haven't been in there in years. That's the one I want replaced. I don't like that building

The original mall building hasn't existed for a couple of years. I see that you are just uninformed of what has been happening at El Con so I'll just leave it at that.

[Anqrew]

Yeah the actual "el con mall" doesn't exist anymore, it was demolished a few years ago, all that exists now are the separate stores and a sort of outdoor corridor connecting them all where the mall hallway once stood. It's also since been referred to as "el con center"

[farmerk]

Thanks for the update. Surfing further, Kroenke's real estate company is into strip malls.:yuck:

Looks like it's his first real estate investment in Arizona. If he does invest in other things in Tucson, hopefully he'll let go of his taste for the cheap looking strip mall architecture :yuck::haha: Now, I can see why he married someone from the Walmart clan

[Butta]

Nope. Disagree.

That area has been de-malled last few years with Target, Home Depot, Starbucks, Walmart etc... around the mall building proper. I won't be surprised if that building gets demolished with a new building.

The owner Kroenke has an estimated worth of $5.6 billion. He's no local developer.

"Kroenke is married to Walmart founder Sam Walton’s daughter, Ann Walton"

So there's literally greater than 0% chance that mall being replaced.

EDIT:
I believe we got our "Elon Musk" in Tucson. Who knows what Kroenke , a Walton, could do in Tucson. I did a wiki on this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Kroenke) - "he has been in the special position to develop many of the plazas near Wal-Mart stores". Silent Stan is into sports and real estate - arena in Tucson? Apartment high rise in downtown old pueblo? A billionaire interested in Tucson is a big deal and unheard of in a very long time. The last billionaire interested in Tucson made a very huge foot print in our economy - Howard Hughes .

EDIT Part 2:
Might wanna google "Stan Kroenke". He deals with large projects on a global scale. He's also a recluse.

Just because he owns the company that is buying this shopping center, doesn't mean Tucson will become a high rise and development mecca or he'll move to Tucson or he'll spend millions of dollars of investments in the city. We will need to wait and see, but probably this is just another small piece of his very large portfolio.

[farmerk]

Not good news (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/census-tucson-sixth-poorest-large-city/article_29e20cf8-6bd2-58bc-bece-d75eef1dfad4.html) .

Over abundance of mattress firms in the OLD Pueblo?

btw, Hope I'm wrong but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Tesla's gigafactory might just end up back in California.

This one is good news - run down motel planned to be converted to a 4 story 42 unit affordable housing (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/historic-downtown-motel-to-be-replaced-with-affordable-housing/article_71449039-760d-5190-a28b-bb701e1d7988.html) . Here's a funny comment from some of our mattress lovin' residents "Armory Park residents opposed the plan, saying it would rob the neighborhood of a historic property designed by famed Tucson architect Josias Joesler" . Frank Lloyd Wright...yes. Josias Joesler who? Bwahahahaha!! :haha::haha::haha:

[cdsuofa]

Im so tired of hearing about some Tucsonans faceless sentimentality towards "historic sites" being torn down to make room for progress and economic development. Whenever this reason for opposing a development comes up it is never something that anyone really considers historically significant to Tucson. In this case a long time neglected and abandoned building is supposed to be considered part of Tucson's Character? Maybe save the sign and put it up as décor somewhere else but for gods sake Im so tired of this sentimentality towards how the way things were holding up economic growth. I am so relieved we saved El Rio as well because when I think Tucson history I think El Rio Golf Course. Who needed hundreds of jobs and additional higher education in this city any ways? P.S. I wish they would consider 6 or 8 stories. 4 doesn't really go tall enough to effect the skyline.

[soleri]

Im so tired of hearing about some Tucsonans faceless sentimentality towards "historic sites" being torn down to make room for progress and economic development. Whenever this reason for opposing a development comes up it is never something that anyone really considers historically significant to Tucson. In this case a long time neglected and abandoned building is supposed to be considered part of Tucson's Character? Maybe save the sign and put it up as décor somewhere else but for gods sake Im so tired of this sentimentality towards how the way things were holding up economic growth. I am so relieved we saved El Rio as well because when I think Tucson history I think El Rio Golf Course. Who needed hundreds of jobs and additional higher education in this city any ways? P.S. I wish they would consider 6 or 8 stories. 4 doesn't really go tall enough to effect the skyline.

No tears shed for the Downtown Motor Hotel although in another context it might be a legitimate preservation target. Still, a little pushback here. Tucson's future really needs to connect to its past. Old buildings give the city character and charm. Take them out and you're left with another nondescript and soulless sprawl town like Tucson's big brother to the north. When I went to UofA in the 1970s, it looked like Tucson might evolve into Arizona's Portland, a high-quality-of-life city with a dense core and growth boundaries. The "economic growth" cabal (Don Diamond, Jim Click, et al) ended that dream and today Tucson's potential sputters along with a weak downtown and a drive-everywhere transportation system. This is only "progress" if you think cities are meant to look like suburbs. There's still creative energy in Tucson, of course, and a good place to meet them is in Armory Park. They actually live in and around downtown. They're your allies. The people who want Tucson to emulate Phoenix are not.

[Ted Lyons]

I'm all for saving historic buildings but the only architecturally notable part of this building is the front office.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azstarnet.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/5e/55e346d6-d1c9-5f2b-ac51-d2171158b0e0/53795e6c169e9.preview-620.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kRfcY1e.png?1

What do you know? The developers are saving that part.

http://i.imgur.com/BWB1f1s.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/KphLRiX.jpg?1

I do hope they keep the sign, though.

EDIT - Looks like they are based on the NW elevation.

[cdsuofa]

No tears shed for the Downtown Motor Hotel although in another context it might be a legitimate preservation target. Still, a little pushback here. Tucson's future really needs to connect to its past. Old buildings give the city character and charm. Take them out and you're left with another nondescript and soulless sprawl town like Tucson's big brother to the north. When I went to UofA in the 1970s, it looked like Tucson might evolve into Arizona's Portland, a high-quality-of-life city with a dense core and growth boundaries. The "economic growth" cabal (Don Diamond, Jim Click, et al) ended that dream and today Tucson's potential sputters along with a weak downtown and a drive-everywhere transportation system. This is only "progress" if you think cities are meant to look like suburbs. There's still creative energy in Tucson, of course, and a good place to meet them is in Armory Park. They actually live in and around downtown. They're your allies. The people who want Tucson to emulate Phoenix are not.

I completely agree. The thing is the only time this reason for opposition comes up is when the building or site in question has no significance to the feel of the city. If we were talking about a group of maintained historic homes in that area It would be a completely different discussion.

[Thirsty]

Not good news (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/census-tucson-sixth-poorest-large-city/article_29e20cf8-6bd2-58bc-bece-d75eef1dfad4.html) .

Over abundance of mattress firms in the OLD Pueblo?

btw, Hope I'm wrong but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Tesla's gigafactory might just end up back in California.

This one is good news - run down motel planned to be converted to a 4 story 42 unit affordable housing (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/historic-downtown-motel-to-be-replaced-with-affordable-housing/article_71449039-760d-5190-a28b-bb701e1d7988.html) . Here's a funny comment from some of our mattress lovin' residents "Armory Park residents opposed the plan, saying it would rob the neighborhood of a historic property designed by famed Tucson architect Josias Joesler" . Frank Lloyd Wright...yes. Josias Joesler who? Bwahahahaha!! :haha::haha::haha:

Josias Joesler was a big deal around southern Arizona. Anything by him or Roy Place should get a second look.

In this case however there isn't much reason to raise a fuss.

[Ritarancher]

The motel has to go. Nobody should be protesting it's demolition unless they're ready to buy it themselves and make the necessary repairs to keep it well. I'm not too crazy for the new design, but it's still an improvement.
In other news, One East Broadway is 100% full! Hopefully this creates more housing projects downtown which would help businesses downtown and create a need for more urban projects, such as a City Target.

[farmerk]

I'm glad that there's even a developer who has interest in this run down motel. This motel is beyond the point of restoring but the developer is nice enough to keep the front office and the sign.

That area needs a 'starter' development and this could be it. There is barely any foot traffic in that area. This will hopefully attract further developments in this area.

However, should this building turn out to be another drug infested low income housing, the developer could always sell this place and hopefully, a new developer would build a 10+ floor modern mixed used development.

As for some local businesses closing their downtown location, I think it's time to bring in big bad corporate business. I'm all for local business thriving but 30+ years of local business downtown just won't help. An urban Walmart AND urban Target downtown will be a great addition.

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/01/17/business/Target/Target-master675.jpg

Btw, Good thing they kept the MaCarthur Building downtown. The was slated for demolition.

[Thirsty]

A mini-Walmart like in Tempe wouldn't kill business, but I think you're going to need more residential density before one movies in.

Maybe a great compromise would be one of the "Urban Walgreens" They've got an emphasis on ready-to-go food, kind of like a QuikTrip mixed with a pharmacy. I think that would do well with students.

http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=gRCYqef6_zgBvv39Ce1UKc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYu5lFtfSSn6zED7CzhxI2K1WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Speaking of students, is there a liquor store downtown?

I would think you could open a "wine and spirits" shop that fit the ambiance of East Congress, while actually making a killing selling 30-pack domestics and Jose Cuervo to all the students who will be living on the streetcar line.

[aznate27]

World's best new skyscraper is ... (http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/19/travel/skyscraper-award/index.html?hpt=hp_bn10)

Not one U.S. city made the list.

[Ted Lyons]

Update on Scott Stiteler's AC project downtown. Looks like construction is scheduled to start at the beginning of 2015.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/parking-garage-deal-helps-prospects-of-a-new-downtown-tucson/article_1f0dff21-a81c-5713-b4d1-2b31fd448815.html

[InTheBurbs]

Update on Scott Stiteler's AC project downtown. Looks like construction is scheduled to start at the beginning of 2015.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/parking-garage-deal-helps-prospects-of-a-new-downtown-tucson/article_1f0dff21-a81c-5713-b4d1-2b31fd448815.html

CNBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101681146) reports on the AC Brand and mentions the "Tucson Downtown" location, in addition to AC hotels planned for New York, Miami, KC, and Cincinnati.

[DSGNR7]

Rio Nuevo has early concept renderings of the AC Hotel up on the their website. Check em' out!

http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/AC-Tucson-5-North-Fifth-Renderings.pdf

[aznate27]

Tucson's P3 Hotel Moves Forward with Rio Nuevo Board Approval (http://realestatedaily-news.com/tucsons-p3-hotel-moves-forward-rio-nuevo-board-approval/)

Found this online on Real Estate Daily News posted a couple days ago. It talks about the new AC hotel for Tucson. I thought I scored on the rendering, but the guy above me did much better, haha.

[aznate27]

Rio Nuevo has earlier concept renderings of the AC Hotel up on the their website. Check em' out!

http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/AC-Tucson-5-North-Fifth-Renderings.pdf

Of course you scored on the renderings much better than me, lol. I am loving the design!! This is exactly what downtown Tucson needs, modern forward thinking architecture. I hope this sets a precedent for other future projects downtown.

[aznate27]

Big Brothers/Big Sisters Tucson Prepares For Much-Needed Renovation After Their 50th Anniversary (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2014/02/big-brothersbig-sisters-tucson-wants-help-renovate-headquarters/)

Not sure if someone posted this already, it's from back in February, but Big Brothers/Big Sisters downtown has started renovating their building. Should breathe some new life into that corner.

[farmerk]

Nice to see a hip looking hotel. Now, downtown has a modern hotel, grocery store and a handful of resident housing plus the modern streetcar. We pretty much have the building blocks for Phase II and hopefully, that would include a huge number of 20+ floor mixed used modern architecture. They have to be 20+ floor buildings since downtown is not that big. The taller the better. We've seen the very strong demand for high rise living in downtown old pueblo.

We're entering a 'new normal' , words I keep hearing around Tucson these days. We'll see retirees, New Yorkers, Californians, rich Chinese etc. who want to own a second home live downtown. Tucson lacks earthquakes, blizzards and expensive living. Why live in Florida and evacuate during hurricane season?

If you guys are craving for a feel good news program, I suggest watching MetroWeek with Andrea Kelly (https://originals.azpm.org/metroweek/). I've seen her close to slapping Tucson NIMBY's when she was working at AZ Illustrated. Her show will likely be the anti-AZStarnet show.

[southtucsonboy77]

Nice to see a hip looking hotel. Now, downtown has a modern hotel, grocery store and a handful of resident housing plus the modern streetcar. We pretty much have the building blocks for Phase II and hopefully, that would include a huge number of 20+ floor mixed used modern architecture. They have to be 20+ floor buildings since downtown is not that big. The taller the better. We've seen the very strong demand for high rise living in downtown old pueblo.

We're entering a 'new normal' , words I keep hearing around Tucson these days. We'll see retirees, New Yorkers, Californians, rich Chinese etc. who want to own a second home live downtown. Tucson lacks earthquakes, blizzards and expensive living. Why live in Florida and evacuate during hurricane season?

If you guys are craving for a feel good news program, I suggest watching MetroWeek with Andrea Kelly (https://originals.azpm.org/metroweek/). I've seen her close to slapping Tucson NIMBY's when she was working at AZ Illustrated. Her show will likely be the anti-AZStarnet show.

The 8 story hotel is another good DENSITY project with a much needed use...hotel. The interior design and modern look looks cool, but the box shape is a little too much like Cadence.

I'm still waiting for that SKYLINE changing project. I'll definitely take 20 stories, but I like the stepping stones and direction that downtown has made and a 10-15 story mid-rise, much like the student housing at the Main Gate overlay would be a good start.

[Classical in Phoenix]

This looks like a great project, hope it goes through. As someone who spent some time at U of A in the 80's, I have always thought downtown Tucson had tons of potential.

[bthom3000]

Rio Nuevo has early concept renderings of the AC Hotel up on the their website. Check em' out!

http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/AC-Tucson-5-North-Fifth-Renderings.pdf

You guys better keep the design this way! i don't want to hear about budget issues turning this into a Red Roof Inn style tire fire!

[Ted Lyons]

Rio Nuevo has early concept renderings of the AC Hotel up on the their website. Check em' out!

http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/AC-Tucson-5-North-Fifth-Renderings.pdf

Great find!

[farmerk]

The 8 story hotel is another good DENSITY project with a much needed use...hotel. The interior design and modern look looks cool, but the box shape is a little too much like Cadence.

I'm still waiting for that SKYLINE changing project. I'll definitely take 20 stories, but I like the stepping stones and direction that downtown has made and a 10-15 story mid-rise, much like the student housing at the Main Gate overlay would be a good start.

It's a nice sight to see ultra modern high rises lumped together. Tucson never had a real skyline so it has a chance to be different. We can have those 'historic' neighborhoods scattered with modern high rises lumped in the middle and modern mid-rise buildings spread to the rest of central Tucson (hopefully beyond that ... anything that would destroy those cheap looking strip malls built by sleazy developers)

Btw, this would be nice right by the edge of Saguaro National Park
http://pandaxe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=615&d=1362660428

This is new. Rotating tower. I'd like to see this built downtown
http://www.energytrendsinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dubai-rotating1.jpg?00cfb7

Some of these modern skyscrapers are down right ugly but here's a link (http://www.pinterest.com/kirkaoz/modern-skyscraper/)

[farmerk]

Steller: New vision could give Tucson its own central park (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/column/steller-new-vision-could-give-tucson-its-own-central-park/article_445d9863-bb11-5a5a-9a29-d85bf2e549e6.html)

I like Brockert's idea of getting rid of the golf course at Reid Park. Never liked the sport of golf, it takes a lot of space with only a handful of people that could enjoy it. We could have mid to high rise buildings around it. And hopefully, the new owner of El Con mall would do a facade renovation of it's buildings (Art Deco, Spanish Revival, Beaux Arts ... ). That could also be a good spot for a giant ferris wheel and merry go round.

It's also a nice spot for an Eiffel Tower
http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20100624&t=2&i=138050438&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=580&pl=378&r=2010-06-24T132350Z_01_BTRE65N117T00_RTROPTP_0_WEATHER-FRANCE

btw, we know that it's walkable from downtown to U of A via 4th ave/University. It's also walkable from U of A to El Con Mall via 3rd st.

[Thirsty]

Steller: New vision could give Tucson its own central park (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/column/steller-new-vision-could-give-tucson-its-own-central-park/article_445d9863-bb11-5a5a-9a29-d85bf2e549e6.html)

I like Brockert's idea of getting rid of the golf course at Reid Park. Never liked the sport of golf, it takes a lot of space with only a handful of people that could enjoy it. We could have mid to high rise buildings around it. And hopefully, the new owner of El Con mall would do a facade renovation of it's buildings (Art Deco, Spanish Revival, Beaux Arts ... ). That could also be a good spot for a giant ferris wheel and merry go round.

It's also a nice spot for an Eiffel Tower
http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20100624&t=2&i=138050438&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=580&pl=378&r=2010-06-24T132350Z_01_BTRE65N117T00_RTROPTP_0_WEATHER-FRANCE

btw, we know that it's walkable from downtown to U of A via 4th ave/University. It's also walkable from U of A to El Con Mall via 3rd st.

Please move to Paris. How many post have you made without a pic of the Eiffel Tower?
...
As for the park idea, I'm all for it. I played golf there growing up, and it is nothing to brag about. A mid-town golf course may have put Tucson on the tourist map in the 50's, but unless someone is going to build a contemporary course, Randolph is no different from a drive-in theater or a bowling alley (although having a place to hit a bucket of balls midtown is a fantastic way to burn off steam).

A lot of money is going to say golf should be preserved for future generations, and Randolph is sort of a poster child for how that works. I think it was $3 golf-till-you-drop for minors in the summer months when adults wouldn't dare step outside. I almost hope the compromise is what happens because I think there is value there... just not 350 acres worth.

[farmerk]

World's best new skyscraper is ... (http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/19/travel/skyscraper-award/index.html?hpt=hp_bn10)

Not one U.S. city made the list.

I feel for your pain , my friend .

[Thirsty]

I feel for your pain , my friend .

Fitting avatar :cheers:

[Ritarancher]

I feel for your pain , my friend .

Don't lose your faith in America yet. Just wait for 2018 when we complete the Hudson Yards (Hudson Spire), World Trade Centers, The Wilshire Grand, One Bayfront Plaza, Skyrise, Transbay terminal and hopefully the Chicago Spire.Things have never looked better for US skyscrapers. Our most recognizable skylines are going to be unrecognizable in a few years. In four years we'll have every spot on that list. Happy Memorial Day

[farmerk]

Don't lose your faith in America yet. Just wait for 2018 when we complete the Hudson Yards (Hudson Spire), World Trade Centers, The Wilshire Grand, One Bayfront Plaza, Skyrise, Transbay terminal and hopefully the Chicago Spire.Things have never looked better for US skyscrapers. Our most recognizable skylines are going to be unrecognizable in a few years. In four years we'll have every spot on that list. Happy Memorial Day

Chicago Spire would be worthy in that list of best skyscraper. It's unique. Hopefully it gets built. What the US need is it's own iconic free standing tower. China, France, Japan, Canada etc.. has one. We may have the Space Needle but NYC, L.A. and Chicago should have one ... you know something like this:

http://english.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2013/08/01/fb48d462456b4956b76f084aafa197c5.jpg

Here's the Facebook page to expand Reid Park (https://www.facebook.com/expandreidpark) . I think this will go through. Not against golf courses but there's just too many for this city in the desert. And Happy Memorial Day.

[ComplotDesigner]

Can't wait for this to be done!

22nd Street & Kino Parkway: 05-27-14

http://i.imgur.com/7sEGyEJ.jpg

[Patrick S]

Two articles of note on the AZ Daily Star's website.

Big-box retail being recruited to Tucson's southeast side (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/big-box-retail-being-recruited-to-tucson-s-southeast-side/article_cf0548fd-ba3f-59b9-968b-6ba3a10071a5.html)

Setback for bike ranch plan east of Tucson (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/setback-for-bike-ranch-plan-east-of-tucson/article_5e56c99e-e5d6-11e3-a3e7-0019bb2963f4.html)

[ProfessorMole]

In the May 20th Action Summary of the Council Meeting, the downtown entertainment district was approved to make it easier to get a liquor license being within 300 feet of a school or church within those boundaries. Check out the May 20th action summary to see the docs.

Tucson Meetings (http://www.tucsonaz.gov/clerks/mcdocs)

[farmerk]

The proposed AC hotel downtown looks nice but hopefully the next set of buildings would look like this (http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/11/travel/gallery/china-new-hotels/index.html?iid=article_sidebar) . It's much more appealing to see modern futuristic buildings lumped with 'historic' neighborhoods and mid-rise buildings scattered around it. In addition to the urban bike trails, there should be urban walk trails (walkable routes).

[farmerk]

Rio Nuevo seeking offers for downtown property (http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/government/rio-nuevo-seeking-offers-for-downtown-property/article_37fe4250-f1a8-5ec7-a952-76224bd8ad45.html) . I guess the previous mixed used development deal is off.

[Patrick S]

Downtown Tucson hotel a step closer to reality (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/25656501/downdown-tucson-hotel-a-step-closer)

When the auditors out pencil to paper, the numbers for approving a new downtown hotel were overwhelming.

If the city of Tucson gives the developer $6.7 million in tax incentives, the return will be nearly $18 million annually.

The hotel will be a 157 room Marriott at Fifth and Broadway, along the streetcar line.

It will be the first new downtown hotel in nearly 40 years.

According to the independent audit, the hotel will create 219 jobs and 100 new indirect jobs.

The Tucson city council will likely approve the project next week.

"This will be a good investment for our city to make," says Tucson Mayor Jonathan Rothschild.

Since 2012, all downtown projects looking for tax abatements or breaks must first be subjected to GPLET, a process which insures the city doesn't violate the state's gift clause.

The value to the city must be greater than the benefits given to the developer.

In this case, it does by nearly three times.

"In the meeting on Tuesday, we will be looking at approval," Rothschild says. "I expect we will."

[farmerk]

Downtown Tucson hotel a step closer to reality (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/25656501/downdown-tucson-hotel-a-step-closer)

When the auditors out pencil to paper, the numbers for approving a new downtown hotel were overwhelming.

If the city of Tucson gives the developer $6.7 million in tax incentives, the return will be nearly $18 million annually.

The hotel will be a 157 room Marriott at Fifth and Broadway, along the streetcar line.

...
In this case, it does by nearly three times.

"In the meeting on Tuesday, we will be looking at approval," Rothschild says. "I expect we will."

'...housing for employees is next' ... I hope it's a 10-20+ floor mix used building. Who knows it could be at the current location of the Greyhound bus station or the Ronstadt bus station . :fingerscrossed:

EDIT : Mentioned not far back that construction vehicles were parked at the planned apt development at the mercado district (downtown west). It turns out those vehicles are for building a new street.

[sh9730]

SO - we get to wait even longer now on a Gigafactory decision.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101694146

Also, they are now saying they may break ground in THREE states!!

Sheesh....

[aznate27]

So...the Hub turned out to be one ugly building. It looks nothing like the renderings IMO...:yuck:

[Ted Lyons]

So...the Hub turned out to be one ugly building. It looks nothing like the renderings IMO...:yuck:

Yeah, not my fave, and I work right next to it. I'm hoping the greenery from the renderings helps a bit.

[Azstar]

Scaffolding is going up along the Pennington Street side of the Roy Place Building, the former Walgreen's at Stone & Pennington. Are they finally going to renovate that side of the building?

[ProfessorMole]

Scaffolding is going up along the Pennington Street side of the Roy Place Building, the former Walgreen's at Stone & Pennington. Are they finally going to renovate that side of the building?

There's a new permit out for that property called "CALT: Pennington Street Facade Restoration" that was issued 5/22/14.

[Anqrew]

So...the Hub turned out to be one ugly building. It looks nothing like the renderings IMO...:yuck:

Interestingly, recently a friend of mine posted a picture of the Hub on Facebook saying how ugly it was and it got lots of comments from people sharing the sentiment, i think from the NW angle it looks pretty bad. but from the E not so bad. But also there was someone commenting, who i assumed lives in a nearby neighborhood because they were giving lots of facts about all the new high rises in the Main Gate. What really caught my eye was that they said "Two new hotels planned in the University area, one 15 floors, the other 20." now this may just be false but the 15 floor is obviously a reference to the hotel on Tyndall, but i got wondering where the "20 floor" one might be located, it couldn't be in the Main Gate because none of the zoning allows for that high. So then i was reminded of talk about the corner of Speedway and Campbell:

I got a bit of a hint of good news starting at about the 20 min 55 sec of this video at AZ Illustrated (https://www.azpm.org/p/home-featured/2014/5/9/34948-az-illustrated-politics-friday-may-9-2014/) . The hint coming from Steve K's mouth regarding a proposal of high end housing and retail mixed used at Campbell and Speedway - sounds like another 'high rise' (or hopefully more) in the making.


I looked into the properties on that corner and there is a rezoning, it leads back to developer Jim Portner of Projects International Inc (La Encantada, The Bridges, SuperTarget) heres a link: http://projectsintl.com/home.html.

anyway this might just be too much speculation but i think the supposed 20 floor hotel may be at speedway and campbell. but who knows, maybe ill ask the person on Facebook where they got the info about the 20 floor hotel.

[Ted Lyons]

Interestingly, recently a friend of mine posted a picture of the Hub on Facebook saying how ugly it was and it got lots of comments from people sharing the sentiment, i think from the NW angle it looks pretty bad. but from the E not so bad. But also there was someone commenting, who i assumed lives in a nearby neighborhood because they were giving lots of facts about all the new high rises in the Main Gate. What really caught my eye was that they said "Two new hotels planned in the University area, one 15 floors, the other 20." now this may just be false but the 15 floor is obviously a reference to the hotel on Tyndall, but i got wondering where the "20 floor" one might be located, it couldn't be in the Main Gate because none of the zoning allows for that high. So then i was reminded of talk about the corner of Speedway and Campbell:



I looked into the properties on that corner and there is a rezoning, it leads back to developer Jim Portner of Projects International Inc (La Encantada, The Bridges, SuperTarget) heres a link: http://projectsintl.com/home.html.

anyway this might just be too much speculation but i think the supposed 20 floor hotel may be at speedway and campbell. but who knows, maybe ill ask the person on Facebook where they got the info about the 20 floor hotel.

Can't remember if I had posted it here, but I found a request from Projects International for one of those parcels requesting neighborhood association addresses. This was around the time of the meeting with Kozachik but I couldn't figure out which neighborhood association it was and many of them do not update their websites if they have websites at all. Is the rezoning request recent?

[aznate27]

Interestingly, recently a friend of mine posted a picture of the Hub on Facebook saying how ugly it was and it got lots of comments from people sharing the sentiment, i think from the NW angle it looks pretty bad. but from the E not so bad. But also there was someone commenting, who i assumed lives in a nearby neighborhood because they were giving lots of facts about all the new high rises in the Main Gate. What really caught my eye was that they said "Two new hotels planned in the University area, one 15 floors, the other 20." now this may just be false but the 15 floor is obviously a reference to the hotel on Tyndall, but i got wondering where the "20 floor" one might be located, it couldn't be in the Main Gate because none of the zoning allows for that high. So then i was reminded of talk about the corner of Speedway and Campbell:



I looked into the properties on that corner and there is a rezoning, it leads back to developer Jim Portner of Projects International Inc (La Encantada, The Bridges, SuperTarget) heres a link: http://projectsintl.com/home.html.

anyway this might just be too much speculation but i think the supposed 20 floor hotel may be at speedway and campbell. but who knows, maybe ill ask the person on Facebook where they got the info about the 20 floor hotel.

I'd rather see a 20 floor high-rise downtown than at Speedway and Campbell. 10 to 12 floors at that corner would be more fitting to the area and complement the Aloft across the street. Downtown desperately needs a new 20+ building, all these low-rises do little to impact the skyline.

[farmerk]

I wouldn't mind a 20 floor building at Speedway/Campbell as long as there's a 30+ floor building downtown. I hope that 20 floor building looks sleek and simple.

[Patrick S]

Pima County looks to buy 167-acre site for soccer fields (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/pima-county-looks-to-buy--acre-site-for-soccer/article_7075d93c-0f51-5610-9540-2f092d7c4ad9.html)

City pushes back deadline for west-side project (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/city-pushes-back-deadline-for-west-side-project/article_379e460b-19fb-572b-ab40-0e5461a4379a.html)

[farmerk]

Former Tucson Mayor Tom Volgy says that Tucson has this type of problem the last 50-60 years. Watch at 5:20 in this link (https://originals.azpm.org/metroweek/) . He looks older and wiser. He says Tucson didn't do very well in terms of adapting to the population boom because '...we were hamstrung in terms of resources'. I think what he meant was that we were stupid enough to listen to a handful (maybe 50 or so) extremist community activist that have the luxury and wealth to create a delusional fantasy land.

Bourne has $6.2 mil to redeveloped part of Wilmot Plaza (http://azstarnet.com/real-estate/part-of-wilmot-plaza-comes-tumbling-down/article_b9728fb0-6500-5caf-ae91-561afbc32f4b.html) but not enough to expand his puny and ugly downtown project (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/92ff8089-74fb-463f-aba2-c14ae27fda33_zps382d005f.jpg).:yuck:

Btw, I'll be glad that I'm wrong but Gadsden will never lay one brick or mortar with their downtown west project. Time is running out. Something needs to be built on that side otherwise the streetcar would be half successful.

Whatever happen to that Peach Property project just south of Cadence. I hope it's canceled. It's one of the ugliest buildings (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/ElPresidiorender.jpg) ever proposed in recent times.:yuck::yuck:

City of Tucson needs to be careful what building they approve downtown. There's only so much space available. It only takes about 15 minute walk end to end within downtown. Hate Tucson to have the distinction as one of the ugliest downtown in the world.

[aznate27]

Does anyone know how to post from Flickr??? I followed the instructions from the FAQ and I can't get my photo to load:hell:

[ComplotDesigner]

Does anyone know how to post from Flickr??? I followed the instructions from the FAQ and I can't get my photo to load:hell:

When you hit share on flickr, click on the BBCode option, copy the code and you just have to paste url-photo-example ...

[aznate27]

I know it's not the best photo quality, still trying to figure out my camera phone settings, but took a pic of the new skyline for U of A when out with a friend. Looks kinda cool from this vantage point. Click on the link to see the full size image, you might have to click twice to get to the picture.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5192/14407872313_09c54daee2_s.jpgU of A skyline. (https://flic.kr/p/nXb7tB) by aznate27 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

[aznate27]

When you hit share on flickr, click on the BBCode option, copy the code and you just have to paste url-photo-example ...

Thank you! I still couldn't get the image size to work, but at least the link to the photo works:tup:

[InTheBurbs]

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5192/14407872313_09c54daee2_s.jpgU of A skyline. (https://flic.kr/p/nXb7tB) by aznate27 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

Nice shot. Looks good from that angle.

[Ted Lyons]

http://i.imgur.com/QnElwMd.jpg

There you go. Downloading and re-uploading to Imgur is probably the easiest option. I sized it for the forum. I'd love to get a shot from a higher floor in Gould-Simpson.

[ComplotDesigner]

University of Arizona - Environment & Natural Resources Building - 061114

http://i.imgur.com/JDjJDac.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/65BmLM7.jpg

[ProfessorMole]

New article about the Mister Car Wash headquarters move toward downtown.

Nation's Largest Car Wash Company Moving Downtown (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2014/06/nations-largest-car-wash-company-moving-hq-downtown-tucson/)

[Patrick S]

New document on the I-11 project recommends, if there is a southern Arizona segment, that it go through Tucson, not around Tucson or anywhere else. Here's a link to the document (from 6/2/14): http://i11study.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/I-11_L1_Evaluation_Results_06-02-2014_FINAL-sm.pdf

[farmerk]

New document on the I-11 project recommends, if there is a southern Arizona segment, that it go through Tucson, not around Tucson or anywhere else. Here's a link to the document (from 6/2/14): http://i11study.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/I-11_L1_Evaluation_Results_06-02-2014_FINAL-sm.pdf

I hope I-11 passes through Tucson. Nothing unusual about buying large swaths of houses to make way for a freeway using eminent domain. Phoenix does it all the time.

V Thai just shut it's doors downtown. That would be a good spot for a mixed used building (hopefully 20+ floors) with a city Target.

[Thirsty]

I hope I-11 passes through Tucson. Nothing unusual about buying large swaths of houses to make way for a freeway using eminent domain. Phoenix does it all the time.

V Thai just shut it's doors downtown. That would be a good spot for a mixed used building (hopefully 20+ floors) with a city Target.

That's not the plan right now. Through Tucson at this point means dump all the traffic onto I-10, and not build any additional infrastructure in Southern Arizona.

Phoenix gets its bypass, Tucson gets stuck with the big-rig traffic.

[Patrick S]

I hope I-11 passes through Tucson. Nothing unusual about buying large swaths of houses to make way for a freeway using eminent domain. Phoenix does it all the time.

V Thai just shut it's doors downtown. That would be a good spot for a mixed used building (hopefully 20+ floors) with a city Target.
I generally hate eminent domain. I don't think it's usually very fair, kicking the poor out of their homes. I agree with Thirsty too, that it's going to be all dumped onto I-10. I'm glad it's not going thru Yuma or western Pima County, but they're going to have to at least widen I-19, if not I-10 (again). And yes, we know you want a 20+ floor building built downtown, as do we all.

[farmerk]

I generally hate eminent domain. I don't think it's usually very fair, kicking the poor out of their homes. I agree with Thirsty too, that it's going to be all dumped onto I-10. I'm glad it's not going thru Yuma or western Pima County, but they're going to have to at least widen I-19, if not I-10 (again). And yes, we know you want a 20+ floor building built downtown, as do we all.

I know of a family along with their neighbors who had their houses bought by the U of A. They were elated because U of A bought their houses above market rate. They moved out to a nicer place and a bigger house. U of A needs to demolish their houses to pave way for a garage. Eminent domain at work.

I'm not a big fan of multiple crosstown freeways in Tucson. I'd be happy to have only one. Tucson will eventually need to have at least one crosstown freeway - a piece of I-11.

btw, it's now 30+ floor buildings downtown.

[Thirsty]

I know of a family along with their neighbors who had their houses bought by the U of A. They were elated because U of A bought their houses above market rate. They moved out to a nicer place and a bigger house. U of A needs to demolish their houses to pave way for a garage. Eminent domain at work.

I'm not a big fan of multiple crosstown freeways in Tucson. I'd be happy to have only one. Tucson will eventually need to have at least one crosstown freeway - a piece of I-11.

btw, it's now 30+ floor buildings downtown.

Not everyone is happy to see their house razed, particularly if it has been in the family for generations... however land-use needs change and evolve and it is necessary for cities to grow and develop.

A road like Ft. Lowell with mostly low rent commercial properties along side it would be a good candidate. Connect to Tanque Verde and then south to I-10 along Houghton. I wonder if economics is keeping it from being built. It would be very convenience and alleviate traffic, but how much growth will it create? That part of town is fully developed to the density the people living there want.

As for I-11, the hope is to come in West of the Tucson mountains, turn East just South of TIA (connecting to I-19), and hook up with I-10 probably around Port of Tucson.

[Thirsty]

Hey Farmerk, just to spark some conversation; will this 30+ tower be commercial or residential. And where is it going to be?

My guess is residential. IIRC, those towers west of Mill in Tempe are just shy of 30 floors. Those filled up nicely, even though the guy went broke building them.

Or maybe a third option, gather all those government workers West of Church Ave into one 30+ tower, and open up the West end to mixed use development. Never gonna happen, but it would be nice.

[farmerk]

Hey Farmerk, just to spark some conversation; will this 30+ tower be commercial or residential. And where is it going to be?

My guess is residential. IIRC, those towers west of Mill in Tempe are just shy of 30 floors. Those filled up nicely, even though the guy went broke building them.

Or maybe a third option, gather all those government workers West of Church Ave into one 30+ tower, and open up the West end to mixed use development. Never gonna happen, but it would be nice.

Bingo! Government building! Local, state and federal in one 30+ or even 40+ building. In Tucson that's not impossible. Too many government buildings downtown. Sell the old gov't buildings for other developments such as another 40+ floor building. It's been talked about for years. So I would see it happening.

Just like an I-11 , the gov't building will be paid mostly by the Feds and state -Another reason why I prefer ramming I-11 inside Tucson proper now. Why have an I-11 and a separate crosstown freeway when you can fuse them into one? COT does not have the leadership nor spine to propose an I-11 crosstown freeway...will have to wait for the Feds to initiate this.

There's no shortage of buildings and houses in Tucson that are easily razed with or without eminent domain since most of Tucson is butt ugly and stripped malled. I'd oppose razing houses if they look something like a Victorian house or a beaux art apt building .

[farmerk]

From this new movement , Expand Reid Park (https://www.facebook.com/expandreidpark?fref=nf) , I was led to this site (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/nyregion/with-next-phase-ready-area-around-high-line-is-flourishing.html) .

Get rid of the golf course in Reid Park, Tucson will get high end apts and condos around it. The mattress lovin golfers will just have to drive their Buick to El Rio Golf..this will save this place financially. Personally, I'd turn El Rio Golf course into another park surrounded by high end apts and condos but we'll just have to wait for the mattress lovin hippies obsessed with the 60's to die out.

Who's gonna live in these high end apts? Retirees (not the mattress lovin ones), second home for the rich, Californians, New Yorkers etc... I see a demand from these groups. One of the main reason they want something like this in Tucson is that Tucson lacks the wrath of Mother Nature. COT needs to be more aggressive in giving permits to build high end high quality buildings from NON-Local Developers.

Here's NYC's High Line site (http://www.thehighline.org/) . Unused elevated track turned into a park in NYC. What to do with the unused dry river beds in Tucson? Build a park IN IT. We'll have more buildings lined in these dry river beds. COT just need to reroute it's floods to existing washes.

Tucson can create more revenue, pull itself out of constant poverty and save the Saguaro Cactus at the same time by green urbanizing. It's possible to urbanized Tucson because it's small (and mostly ugly) compared to Phoenix. I don't mind urbanizing Phoenix but the place is just gigantic. At least 50 percent of Tucson turned into a dense urban mecca - that's what I meant about urbanizing Tucson.

[soleri]

From this new movement , Expand Reid Park (https://www.facebook.com/expandreidpark?fref=nf) , I was led to this site (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/nyregion/with-next-phase-ready-area-around-high-line-is-flourishing.html) .

Get rid of the golf course in Reid Park, Tucson will get high end apts and condos around it. The mattress lovin golfers will just have to drive their Buick to El Rio Golf..this will save this place financially. Personally, I'd turn El Rio Golf course into another park surrounded by high end apts and condos but we'll just have to wait for the mattress lovin hippies obsessed with the 60's to die out.

Who's gonna live in these high end apts? Retirees (not the mattress lovin ones), second home for the rich, Californians, New Yorkers etc... I see a demand from these groups. One of the main reason they want something like this in Tucson is that Tucson lacks the wrath of Mother Nature. COT needs to be more aggressive in giving permits to build high end high quality buildings from NON-Local Developers.

Here's NYC's High Line site (http://www.thehighline.org/) . Unused elevated track turned into a park in NYC. What to do with the unused dry river beds in Tucson? Build a park IN IT. We'll have more buildings lined in these dry river beds. COT just need to reroute it's floods to existing washes.

Tucson can create more revenue, pull itself out of constant poverty and save the Saguaro Cactus at the same time by green urbanizing. It's possible to urbanized Tucson because it's small (and mostly ugly) compared to Phoenix. I don't mind urbanizing Phoenix but the place is just gigantic. At least 50 percent of Tucson turned into a dense urban mecca - that's what I meant about urbanizing Tucson.

Mattress-loving hippies have done more for real creativity and the urban pulse than just about any other demographic this side of gays and Jane Jacobs. You want a boring city with yuppies and condos? Phoenix is 110 miles to the north! The real trick is not attracting dullards in BMWs. It's getting people who love music, art, poetry, nature, and the weird. Almost every city in the West worth visiting has possessed this crucial demographic, from San Francisco to Portland Santa Fe, Seattle, and Denver. What cities don't you see this creativity? Well, Phoenix, of course, which may be the worst city in the West if not the country. Then there's Wichita, Lubbock, Oklahoma City, Bakersfield, and Provo.

In the 1970s when Tucson was at its apex (I pity those of you who never saw it), hippies had planted the seeds of a great urban mecca. Sadly, the local Republican establishment (Jim Click, Don Diamond, et al) killed it. And since then Tucson has looked more and more like a suburb of Phoenix. The last thing Tucson needs is to look even more like a suburb.

[Thirsty]

Here's NYC's High Line site (http://www.thehighline.org/) . Unused elevated track turned into a park in NYC. What to do with the unused dry river beds in Tucson? Build a park IN IT. We'll have more buildings lined in these dry river beds. COT just need to reroute it's floods to existing washes.


There is nowhere to reroute that water, it is the main drainage. Of course tunnels could be laid to take the water away. But if the river bed were widened and gently sloped (or terrace to slow erosion) Tucson could have a nice usable park. Think of the flood basins we have around Tucson and Phoenix that are used as parks the other 99% of days. The river beds could be like that only stretched out linearly.

[combusean]

Indian Bend Wash in Scottsdale is a drainage corridor and a park. No reason to suggest the same couldn't happen with Tucson's dry riverbeds.

[Ted Lyons]

soleri, great post. Seriously, though, blocking a few of our forum members will save you (and others) a lot of heartache.

[Patrick S]

There's no shortage of buildings and houses in Tucson that are easily razed with or without eminent domain since most of Tucson is butt ugly and stripped malled. I'd oppose razing houses if they look something like a Victorian house or a beaux art apt building .
Thus the point I was making. Most lower-class (read: poor) people are not going to afford to live in a Victorian house. So we fight to save the houses of the well-off, meanwhile the poor are on their own and we just push them into denser and denser slums.

[Patrick S]

From this new movement , Expand Reid Park (https://www.facebook.com/expandreidpark?fref=nf) , I was led to this site (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/nyregion/with-next-phase-ready-area-around-high-line-is-flourishing.html) .

Get rid of the golf course in Reid Park, Tucson will get high end apts and condos around it. The mattress lovin golfers will just have to drive their Buick to El Rio Golf..this will save this place financially. Personally, I'd turn El Rio Golf course into another park surrounded by high end apts and condos but we'll just have to wait for the mattress lovin hippies obsessed with the 60's to die out.

Who's gonna live in these high end apts? Retirees (not the mattress lovin ones), second home for the rich, Californians, New Yorkers etc... I see a demand from these groups. One of the main reason they want something like this in Tucson is that Tucson lacks the wrath of Mother Nature. COT needs to be more aggressive in giving permits to build high end high quality buildings from NON-Local Developers.

Here's NYC's High Line site (http://www.thehighline.org/) . Unused elevated track turned into a park in NYC. What to do with the unused dry river beds in Tucson? Build a park IN IT. We'll have more buildings lined in these dry river beds. COT just need to reroute it's floods to existing washes.

Tucson can create more revenue, pull itself out of constant poverty and save the Saguaro Cactus at the same time by green urbanizing. It's possible to urbanized Tucson because it's small (and mostly ugly) compared to Phoenix. I don't mind urbanizing Phoenix but the place is just gigantic. At least 50 percent of Tucson turned into a dense urban mecca - that's what I meant about urbanizing Tucson.
How do you know that just by getting rid of the golf course (by the way, there are two courses there and they are only proposing getting rid of the southern one), that suddenly high-end apartments will appear on the fringes or the park? Have you done market research? Have you seen studies that suggest this?

Seriously - I love your enthusiasm about making Tucson bigger and denser. It's something we all share. We know you want 20+ (sorry, now 30+) story buildings in the core of Tucson (mainly because you talk about it in practically every post), but where is the market for it? You don't just build to build. There has to be a need, a want, a desire - a market. If that market isn't there then it won't get built. We've seen densification and growth in the core - in downtown. Do I wish it was more and built higher - yes, but I'll take what they can give us in the meantime. You've got to have reasonable expectations and suggestions. The golf course(s) at Reid Park should not be closed. Those two courses make money - and we just got into this new deal with the private company who took over the city courses. Give it a chance to work. So, you don't like golf. Well, there are plenty of us who do (and at 35 I guess I'm just a "Mattress loving hippy" [whatever that is] at heart). Reid Park is nice and there are plenty of improvements that can be made to the existing infrastructure of space to make it better. We don't need to expand it. It already is Tucson's "Central Park", with the golf courses, the ponds, the band shell, the zoo, playgrounds, baseball fields, rose garden, and open green spaces. It's easy to talk about building this 20+ story building or building these high-end apartments and condos when it isn't your money. Two years ago I wish my Cardinals had spent $250 million to keep Albert Pujols - because it wasn't my money. They didn't and they're better of without him. Tucson is a great place to live. It has it's problems, of course. Every city does. But I see the city trying to fix some of these - the roads are being repaved for starters (Kolb is so much better). Things are happening downtown and in the city core. Give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[aznate27]

How do you know that just by getting rid of the golf course (by the way, there are two courses there and they are only proposing getting rid of the southern one), that suddenly high-end apartments will appear on the fringes or the park? Have you done market research? Have you seen studies that suggest this?

Seriously - I love your enthusiasm about making Tucson bigger and denser. It's something we all share. We know you want 20+ (sorry, now 30+) story buildings in the core of Tucson (mainly because you talk about it in practically every post), but where is the market for it? You don't just build to build. There has to be a need, a want, a desire - a market. If that market isn't there then it won't get built. We've seen densification and growth in the core - in downtown. Do I wish it was more and built higher - yes, but I'll take what they can give us in the meantime. You've got to have reasonable expectations and suggestions. The golf course(s) at Reid Park should not be closed. Those two courses make money - and we just got into this new deal with the private company who took over the city courses. Give it a chance to work. So, you don't like golf. Well, there are plenty of us who do (and at 35 I guess I'm just a "Mattress loving hippy" [whatever that is] at heart). Reid Park is nice and there are plenty of improvements that can be made to the existing infrastructure of space to make it better. We don't need to expand it. It already is Tucson's "Central Park", with the golf courses, the ponds, the band shell, the zoo, playgrounds, baseball fields, rose garden, and open green spaces. It's easy to talk about building this 20+ story building or building these high-end apartments and condos when it isn't your money. Two years ago I wish my Cardinals had spent $250 million to keep Albert Pujols - because it wasn't my money. They didn't and they're better of without him. Tucson is a great place to live. It has it's problems, of course. Every city does. But I see the city trying to fix some of these - the roads are being repaved for starters (Kolb is so much better). Things are happening downtown and in the city core. Give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Well said! :tup:

[omarainza]

theoretically speaking: if I won the lottery and wanted to build a building JUST BECAUSE and I had the money, could I? what would keep me from buying a patch of land, designing a multi story apartment building (I guess i'm an architect now too lol), get the zoning, and then just renting out the space at affordable apt rates (think the families that we'll destroy the homes for I-11, can afford).

idk I cant help but feel farmerk's pain. im all for if you build they will come, to some extent. having visited Mexico, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, these are POOR places and some of the slums have 10 story or so buildings (ugly for sure) that house POOR people. now im sure there must be SOME kind of gvmt subsidy going on there, but they couldn't possibly be able to shell out what the mainstream highrise apts charge to live in these low/midrises would they have been in lets say NYC or LA, we assuming highrise=luxury. thing is investors charge top dollar because they furnish everything with high quality fixtures, streamlines chic kitchens and living rooms, and state of the art gyms/rec centers. not everyone needs those and dt has them anyways, encourage some foot traffic

I feel like someone should be able to build an apt building (think up instead of out) that stacks lower income housing and maybe the city only pays for the outside part to mask what would be this: http://pics3.city-data.com/businesses/p/0/7/4/9/6280749.JPG or even Tucson house on oracle for example, with an attractive outside, maybe glass curtain or art deco skin like this. http://www.bizhouseproperty.com/upload/CDS%202288_p1.jpg or http://makatimidrisecondo.weebly.com/uploads/3/3/9/5/3395999/6325449.jpg?600 of course easy to say without a dollar to speak for it and of course plans for a real building downtown does include MY dollars.... and everyone ELSE in the city's dollars for that matter, which is why those plans get scrapped: not everyone wants those dollars there. why pay for someone elses property when I have to avoid a pothole to get into my driveway and a sidewalk would be nice ;)

its all about looking for that SOMEONE who has that vision, and unless you got some friend with deep pockets, anything publicly funded shouldn't even be thought of, the city wastes money on studies and plans and sh*t for the voters to say no. maybe that's why the UA dorms got built, those companies had $$$ and its not me paying for that pool on the roof I cant swim in (at least I don't think I did... someone enlighten me)

and farmerk, as much as we ALL want that 30+ building (actually I don't, I think the current height is nice for our city downtown but more DENSITY is key, a couple other 20-30 floor eye catchers would be nice at max, we don't need dt L.A.) I don't think everyone needs it rubbed in their place, make it your sig or something so its there but not part of ur convo. no sense in hoping for something that will NEVER happen... check out my post with the Century Tower here: http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87835&page=191 great use for that patch of grass and its JUST a crappy swapmeet with nothing of interest (least to me). apparently the people who voted against it felt that swapmeet is better there, I don't see them buying much desert art, native jewelry, and wind chimes. its never going to happen
the forum:
http://makeameme.org/media/created/Stop-Trying-to-uwj4fk.jpg
you:
http://www.brandwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Fetch.jpg

[omarainza]

sorry for rambling... on topic, does anyone have any pictures of the finished hub? ive been meaning to go but work has been hectic, I wanna see JUST how ugly it is D: !!!

[farmerk]

Thanks for the response. But sorry for not responding back I have to tend to a business trip away from civilization for a while. Anyway, I appreciate to some of the posters who are bold enough to be creative and post their opinions in this forum. I think a while back a few of you thirst for a tower including me. Here's one project that's in the works - Phoenix Towers, a green power generating tower (http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=24406) . This tower is ugly in my opinion, btw.

Let me add. There's a poster in this forum who is a classic Tucson NIMBY - pretending to be a fan of skyscrapers and urban development planted by Neighborhood Association. The way Tucson NIMBY's work is they speak softly pretending to be your friend diverting your opinion to the point nothing gets done. He he. :P

[farmerk]

Mattress-loving hippies have done more for real creativity and the urban pulse than just about any other demographic this side of gays and Jane Jacobs. You want a boring city with yuppies and condos? Phoenix is 110 miles to the north! The real trick is not attracting dullards in BMWs. It's getting people who love music, art, poetry, nature, and the weird. Almost every city in the West worth visiting has possessed this crucial demographic, from San Francisco to Portland Santa Fe, Seattle, and Denver. What cities don't you see this creativity? Well, Phoenix, of course, which may be the worst city in the West if not the country. Then there's Wichita, Lubbock, Oklahoma City, Bakersfield, and Provo.

In the 1970s when Tucson was at its apex (I pity those of you who never saw it), hippies had planted the seeds of a great urban mecca. Sadly, the local Republican establishment (Jim Click, Don Diamond, et al) killed it. And since then Tucson has looked more and more like a suburb of Phoenix. The last thing Tucson needs is to look even more like a suburb.

I agree with you my friend. Republican suburb strip mall architecture is one of the worst kinds!

[farmerk]

soleri, great post. Seriously, though, blocking a few of our forum members will save you (and others) a lot of heartache.

Awwww. Poor baby.

[farmerk]

Thus the point I was making. Most lower-class (read: poor) people are not going to afford to live in a Victorian house. So we fight to save the houses of the well-off, meanwhile the poor are on their own and we just push them into denser and denser slums.

That's not good. Pushing the poor to denser slums. Who say's they have to live in a Victorian house. It's their choice if they want to live in a denser slum. The folks that I knew who got a good deal via eminent domain decided to move in a nicer neighborhood.

[farmerk]

... Rome wasn't built in a day.

That's true.

[bthom3000]

Mattress-loving hippies have done more for real creativity and the urban pulse than just about any other demographic this side of gays and Jane Jacobs. You want a boring city with yuppies and condos? Phoenix is 110 miles to the north! The real trick is not attracting dullards in BMWs. It's getting people who love music, art, poetry, nature, and the weird. Almost every city in the West worth visiting has possessed this crucial demographic, from San Francisco to Portland Santa Fe, Seattle, and Denver. What cities don't you see this creativity? Well, Phoenix, of course, which may be the worst city in the West if not the country. Then there's Wichita, Lubbock, Oklahoma City, Bakersfield, and Provo.

In the 1970s when Tucson was at its apex (I pity those of you who never saw it), hippies had planted the seeds of a great urban mecca. Sadly, the local Republican establishment (Jim Click, Don Diamond, et al) killed it. And since then Tucson has looked more and more like a suburb of Phoenix. The last thing Tucson needs is to look even more like a suburb.

It wasn't Jim Click and Diamond who have consistently raised property taxes in Pima county and driven out business. It wasn't those two who killed baseball here either.
Oh wait hippies don't care for sports so as long as they have their shitty, run down concert areas and $1 a year rent artist studios, which bring no money to this city, they'll consider this town as equal to Austin. The problem isn't the republicans. Not even so much the democrats. Its the city leaders having no balls to deal with these hippies that don't want anything new built here.
You mention San Fran and Denver, Portland and Seattle. Have you been there? Their downtowns are built up and full of BUSINESS! We attract no business here. We can have all the "weird" but who's going to pay them?
Tucson needs at least one large business downtown to make it like the other cities.
With no new capital Tucson will be stuck in the poor, money-less rut it currently finds its self.
I say enough with these NIMBYS and lets finally concentrate on making Tucson a business friendly city. Change the zoning to allow for more mixed use development all over the city. Change the parking requirements. Build a significant mass transit that is clean and attractive to more people.
Stop blaming jim click and diamond who have done more for this city than any one of our city leaders ever could.
By the way, i want examples of exactly how these two men made tucson like phoenix. Please enlighten me.

[southtucsonboy77]

I for one enjoy farmerk's posts...I love the enthusiasm...and I too yearn for that skyline changing skyscraper...whether it be 20+ or 30+ floors. Let's all be considerate.

What Tucson needs is balance. The Phoenix-style cookie-cutter subdivisions that are inundated throughout the Valley is a bit too much. The NIMBYism and mettling NAs here in Tucson are just sickening. A city can urbanize and densify...while at the same time keeping its character and uniqueness. The greatest cities in the world have historical buidlings, districts, and/or neighborhoods surrounded by density and skyscrapers. Here in Tucson, even in DOWNTOWN Tucson, we'll have some crazed group trying to stop something. The "Warehouse" district...the "Bus Riders" group...the "bums and slum at the Main Library" group. When I worked for RTA/PAG, the biggest expense and waste of money for the 22nd and Broadway roadway project were the public meetings. The % of money thrown to those meetings were statistically through the roof to any roadway project in America. Why? Because WE let them.

So instead of infill projects...we have empty, broken glass sparkling, weed growing empty lots. To many Tucson locals,especially the Mexican Americans, the 70s was not the heyday of Tucson...it was the beginning of the end. That's when Urban Renewal killed downtown Tucson. The heydays were the 50s and 60s when downtown was the place to be.