London Construction - Development News Thread#1

[ldoto]

Development Planned for SOHO Neighbourhood :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

GOODWILL INDUSTRIES in partnership with SOHO London is inviting members of the public to a special meeting on Wednesday, October 29.
The meeting will outline Goodwill Industries' plans for a multi-use development on 2.8 acres at Horton and Wellington streets, SOHO's main intersection.

The public meeting will be held at Wellington Street United Church at 7 p.m. Although details are sketchy, the development is described as a "multi-purpose, diverse community and corporate centre."

Advance word is that Goodwill is proposing to build a 30-storey highrise complex which will include retails shops at ground level, several floors of office space and then apartments or condominiums.
The complex is expected to include some accessible housing to meet the mandate of Goodwill Industries.

This development will likely mean that several of the retail establishments along Wellington and Horton will have to relocate.

Anyone with questions is invited to contact Julie Watson at 519-850-9675, ext. 250 or by email at watson@goodwillindustries.ca.

It is expected that the meeting will draw a large crowd since this is the first major development to be proposed for the neighborhood.

SOHO residents are already questioning how the planned upscale development will fit in with the nearby Center of Hope emergency housing complex, operated by the Salvation Army, and the geared-to-income highrise apartment building on Simcoe Street which is operated by the London Housing Authority. :banana: :banana: :banana:

Take a look of it cool!!!!!!!!
http://www.altlondon.org/article.php?story=20081021190318292

[ldoto]

Wed, November 26, 2008

The waiving of development fees has spurred residential growth in the city's core

Has London's downtown really turned a corner?

That's the broader question city controllers will have to answer today when they meet to decide if they should phase out a decade-old financial break to developers building condos downtown.

"(The exemption) has definitely spurred core-area growth," Controller Tom Gosnell said.

"If (phasing it out) would hinder that, I'd be in favour of keeping it."

Introduced in 1995, the exemption program has cost taxpayers about $6.6 million. In that time, more than 1,300 residential units have been built downtown, according to a report to board of control.




The exemption for residential development covers the downtown core and Old East Village.

City staff recommend phasing out the downtown exemption by 25 per cent in January 2011 and a further 25 per cent in January 2012.

The Old East Village exemption should be maintained and reconsidered by the end of 2011, staff recommends.

Postponing the phase-out for downtown further doesn't sit well with Controller Gina Barber.

"Every time we get closer to doing something fairer to the taxpayer, we back off," she said.

But phasing out the exemption, when downtown is still being revamped and at a time of economic crisis, may not be the right way to go either, said Controller Gord Hume.

"There's been a significant benefit to the municipality in terms of . . . more residents downtown," he said.

"The question is, if we give developers help upfront, are we going to see much more long-term benefit to the community?"

The exemptions have created a better downtown and removing them wouldn't be "wise," said Bob Usher, chairperson of the London Downtown Business Association.

"(Downtown builders) have said the exemption factored very heavily in the building downtown," he said.

Board of control will also look at deferring until next year a phased-in industrial development charge and a change to the commercial development charge rate policy.

[Snark]

Agreed! Why not let constructive ME comments speak for all instead:

heh, heh. I guess I am reluctant to do just that. It is no big deal anyway...I get my name in the papers relatively often given my career.

Speaking for myself, I feel eminently qualified to comment on such phenomena

I am quoted in the LFP today
I have appeared on A-Morning a couple of times (interviewed...I am in academia). Oh well, there is still the LFP

I have no idea what the cost would be.

<deleted>

Sorry, I was barely awake, and I just tune out of all the bad news of late, for the sake of my sanity.

Landmark? Looks like a pile of shit.

A mountain of locusts? Change the name. Likewise, would you want to live on Cheapside (major street in London).

Middlesex (what the hell is this, a hermaphrodite?)

Yeah, aren't they vile?

I am glad, then. So that I will not have to waste my time instructing such retarded deadbeats.

Take London (ON), multiply it by 10, and maybe then, you would have something that could, very possibly, be a candidate for world-class.

Not the Shriners thing again. Fer fvcksakes, when will it ever end?

It's the new building for West Park Baptist Church (currently near Wonderland & Hyde Park Rd.). Damn. Not another one.

London has long ceased being a head-office city, to being a back-office city.

Whats the news of the new Walfart that is supposed to go up at Sprawldale and unWonderland?

Man, the Galleria has gotta be one of the biggest urban disasters in Canada. I was there yesterday...unfuckingbelievable how empty the place is.

A veritable ghostown of a mall, with more than 40 vacant stores to better serve you!

overmalled....but Westmount will still be a mall? Sounds like the managers are lacking a solid strategy. If I were a tenant in the mall, I would be worried.

The "rebirth" of the Galleria is rather like a woman experiencing 72 months of gestation followed by 24 months of labour.

could this be the first signs of Masonville mall going the way of Westmount mall??

Nice, but I hear that they do not serve BEER at Labatt Park...extremely ironic and moronic.

allow Labatt park to serve beer...and I will go to see London Majors games.

Wharnecliffe is going down the toilet. At least half of it (from Oxford to Commissioners) sits at the bottom of the bowl, with the other turds. A charming slice of East London in western London.

YEAH! more commie-blocks!

I am getting pissed off at the so-called leaders of London.

Nostalgia for the status quo = today's london leadership = mediocrity

yup: london planners/council-->think small.

I have to agree that the current administration really comes up short in their 'vision' for what London ought to aspire to.

London busses are horrible. They smell, have no seats, and constantly lurch. Not to mention, the schedules, and the asinine amount of time it takes to get from point A to point B

very overdue. I can't understand why they rezone/develop areas prior to improving the infrastructure.

too bad that it will probably be years before it goes back up again for phase II

More bad news for London. The daily dose

For Gawd's sake, London has only 2 complete East-West and North-South roads:
East-West: Fanshawe Park Road and Oxford
North-South: Wonderland and Highbury.
That's it. Everything else does not go through all the way.

Council should wake up...given the lousy local economy, taxpayers are not feeling generous, and frankly, a little tired of property (et al.) tax increases that have long outstripped inflation

London has the third-busiest airport in Canada, after Toronto and Vancouver. Really? Ahead of Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, etc.? Must be freight. Would like to see the supporting statistics.

thats a tall proposal for a shitsville corner. Love to see it happen....but in this market?

Visonary. 30 years, I will be approaching 70. I can then look forward to a quick way to Fanshawe Park Road. Yay.

Any info on the proposed Walfart at Exeter and Wonderland Rd. South?

Does the Ash Borer also eat jobs? I ask because the London area has lost so many in the past 6 months.

Weird. Hope that it is better than the aborted pseudo-freeway blip that is Highbury Ave.

I think that London's city planners look towards the 905 area as an urban model, rather than say, more concise urban fabrics like those found in Europe.

Looks like a run-down 70's era Las Vegas motor inn.

Quite frankly, who gives two-shits what Jack Layton says?

And the commie-blocks keep-a-comin' in London, esp. in the Oxford-Wonderland area.
I'd rather have no construction, than more of those ugly commie-blocks. Parts of London could easily pass for Irkutsk or Dniepreprovetsk.

I am not too impressed, having bought a home in the neighborhood.

Not again.

Good, but if it happens, I will eat my shoes.
I refer to them as Dumbcentres.

Ultra 80s, Ultra Smell (Bell) Canada. Smell has a building like this in every single major city in Canada.

This actually looks pretty good. I was in the area this weekend past, and it currently is about as gritty and shitty as anywhere in the country.

Yeah, just what I expected, city council is totally in cahoots with the big box sprawl developers. Who gives a shit if inner London looks like shit,

Yeah, I live about 1 km from that shitty bridge. and cross it from time to time. It is the Marie-Anne de Cicco way: rezone, build, but do not expand the infrastructure.

More of Anne-Marie's "Best and Brightest" (aka, highest salaries and sick-days, and moreover, mediocre results

yep. exactly. anyone else, it would be front-page news. And you'd think, "wow, the mayor's husband...for sure the LFP will have something"...but it is buried like a skeleton in the closet.

And while we are at it, how on earth did Best get the exemption for that lousy deck/patio along Richmond? Fishy, fishy.

What do you all think about the Mayor's husband's little adventure last saturday? Must be pretty damned embarassing for Anne-Marie, to say the least.

Same shit they smoked when they decided to bury the drunk-driving adventure of Mr. A-M deC-Best.

No news on Mr. AMdeC-Best? Still got his drivers' license, I presume?

If he got drunk (and then drove) in his own bar...could he be at risk of losing his liquor license? Did you sit out on the cheapo patio at Friday Fright Nites?

Not because of, but despite the current administration on dufferin st.

[MolsonExport]

thats a tall proposal for a shitsville corner. Love to see it happen....but in this market?

[Snark]

Agreed! Why not let constructive ME comments speak for all instead:

heh, heh. I guess I am reluctant to do just that. It is no big deal anyway...I get my name in the papers relatively often given my career.

Speaking for myself, I feel eminently qualified to comment on such phenomena

I am quoted in the LFP today
I have appeared on A-Morning a couple of times (interviewed...I am in academia). Oh well, there is still the LFP

I have no idea what the cost would be.

<deleted>

Sorry, I was barely awake, and I just tune out of all the bad news of late, for the sake of my sanity.

Landmark? Looks like a pile of shit.

A mountain of locusts? Change the name. Likewise, would you want to live on Cheapside (major street in London).

Middlesex (what the hell is this, a hermaphrodite?)

Yeah, aren't they vile?

I am glad, then. So that I will not have to waste my time instructing such retarded deadbeats.

Take London (ON), multiply it by 10, and maybe then, you would have something that could, very possibly, be a candidate for world-class.

Not the Shriners thing again. Fer fvcksakes, when will it ever end?

It's the new building for West Park Baptist Church (currently near Wonderland & Hyde Park Rd.). Damn. Not another one.

London has long ceased being a head-office city, to being a back-office city.

Whats the news of the new Walfart that is supposed to go up at Sprawldale and unWonderland?

Man, the Galleria has gotta be one of the biggest urban disasters in Canada. I was there yesterday...unfuckingbelievable how empty the place is.

A veritable ghostown of a mall, with more than 40 vacant stores to better serve you!

overmalled....but Westmount will still be a mall? Sounds like the managers are lacking a solid strategy. If I were a tenant in the mall, I would be worried.

The "rebirth" of the Galleria is rather like a woman experiencing 72 months of gestation followed by 24 months of labour.

could this be the first signs of Masonville mall going the way of Westmount mall??

Nice, but I hear that they do not serve BEER at Labatt Park...extremely ironic and moronic.

allow Labatt park to serve beer...and I will go to see London Majors games.

Wharnecliffe is going down the toilet. At least half of it (from Oxford to Commissioners) sits at the bottom of the bowl, with the other turds. A charming slice of East London in western London.

YEAH! more commie-blocks!

I am getting pissed off at the so-called leaders of London.

Nostalgia for the status quo = today's london leadership = mediocrity

yup: london planners/council-->think small.

I have to agree that the current administration really comes up short in their 'vision' for what London ought to aspire to.

London busses are horrible. They smell, have no seats, and constantly lurch. Not to mention, the schedules, and the asinine amount of time it takes to get from point A to point B

very overdue. I can't understand why they rezone/develop areas prior to improving the infrastructure.

too bad that it will probably be years before it goes back up again for phase II

More bad news for London. The daily dose

For Gawd's sake, London has only 2 complete East-West and North-South roads:
East-West: Fanshawe Park Road and Oxford
North-South: Wonderland and Highbury.
That's it. Everything else does not go through all the way.

Council should wake up...given the lousy local economy, taxpayers are not feeling generous, and frankly, a little tired of property (et al.) tax increases that have long outstripped inflation

London has the third-busiest airport in Canada, after Toronto and Vancouver. Really? Ahead of Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, etc.? Must be freight. Would like to see the supporting statistics.

thats a tall proposal for a shitsville corner. Love to see it happen....but in this market?

Visonary. 30 years, I will be approaching 70. I can then look forward to a quick way to Fanshawe Park Road. Yay.

Any info on the proposed Walfart at Exeter and Wonderland Rd. South?

Does the Ash Borer also eat jobs? I ask because the London area has lost so many in the past 6 months.

Weird. Hope that it is better than the aborted pseudo-freeway blip that is Highbury Ave.

I think that London's city planners look towards the 905 area as an urban model, rather than say, more concise urban fabrics like those found in Europe.

Looks like a run-down 70's era Las Vegas motor inn.

Quite frankly, who gives two-shits what Jack Layton says?

And the commie-blocks keep-a-comin' in London, esp. in the Oxford-Wonderland area.
I'd rather have no construction, than more of those ugly commie-blocks. Parts of London could easily pass for Irkutsk or Dniepreprovetsk.

I am not too impressed, having bought a home in the neighborhood.

Not again.

Good, but if it happens, I will eat my shoes.
I refer to them as Dumbcentres.

Ultra 80s, Ultra Smell (Bell) Canada. Smell has a building like this in every single major city in Canada.

This actually looks pretty good. I was in the area this weekend past, and it currently is about as gritty and shitty as anywhere in the country.

Yeah, just what I expected, city council is totally in cahoots with the big box sprawl developers. Who gives a shit if inner London looks like shit,

Yeah, I live about 1 km from that shitty bridge. and cross it from time to time. It is the Marie-Anne de Cicco way: rezone, build, but do not expand the infrastructure.

More of Anne-Marie's "Best and Brightest" (aka, highest salaries and sick-days, and moreover, mediocre results

yep. exactly. anyone else, it would be front-page news. And you'd think, "wow, the mayor's husband...for sure the LFP will have something"...but it is buried like a skeleton in the closet.

And while we are at it, how on earth did Best get the exemption for that lousy deck/patio along Richmond? Fishy, fishy.

What do you all think about the Mayor's husband's little adventure last saturday? Must be pretty damned embarassing for Anne-Marie, to say the least.

Same shit they smoked when they decided to bury the drunk-driving adventure of Mr. A-M deC-Best.

No news on Mr. AMdeC-Best? Still got his drivers' license, I presume?

If he got drunk (and then drove) in his own bar...could he be at risk of losing his liquor license? Did you sit out on the cheapo patio at Friday Fright Nites?

Not because of, but despite the current administration on dufferin st.

[QuantumLeap]

London urged to lobby government for key role
Wed, November 26, 2008
Former London MPP Dianne Cunningham to address board of control today


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+ Help
By CHIP MARTIN

It's time for London to become a vital hub along the Ontario-Quebec international trade corridor, board of control will be told today.

With senior governments anxious to spend on public works to create jobs amid the economic downturn, spending on border and transportation improvements is logical and overdue, says former London MPP Dianne Cunningham.

Now director of the Lawrence National Centre for Policy and Management at the Ivey Business School, Cunningham will lead a high-powered delegation pushing London to adopt an aggressive stance on a city role in the transportation corridor.

A report produced after consultation with transportation experts urges London to step up and promote its willingness to be a key player in improving the corridor.

Cunningham said much is at stake for London, and other communities may elbow it aside if the city doesn't meet the challenge.


"We won't be competitive if we don't speak about these things," she said.

Among the proposals her group is promoting:

- Dedicated, high-speed "bullet" trains for both passengers and freight, especially around the congested Toronto area.

- Improvements to the physical gateways to the United States at Windsor and Sarnia.

- Streamlining rules at border crossings.

- Promoting London as a logical stop along the corridor -- given its pivotal air, road and rail connections.

Cunningham said cities like London don't engage in enough long-term planning and if it doesn't step up, it may lose out to other cities like Guelph and Waterloo which are taking early steps to become hubs along the continental transportation corridor.

"We want London on the map," she said.

Her plan is to inspire London politicians to begin agitating for a piece of the pie as senior governments look at public works projects of national, provincial or regional interest.

"If London positions itself as assisting governments in the development of this corridor and tells governments what it is prepared to do, I think they will get a very welcoming response," she said.

Cunningham said a positive response from controllers today is important.

[QuantumLeap]

Controllers hear pitch to make London a duty-free zone
Wed, November 26, 2008

By KATE DUBINSKI, SUN MEDIA



Board of control mulls lower fee for strip clubs Don't come to us looking for cash, controllers warn city groups

London could become a unique duty-free zone for goods coming in and out of the country, board of control heard this morning.

“London has the right asset mix to position it as a major growth centre along the trade corridor,” said Dianne Cunningham, a former provincial cabinet minister and the director of the Lawrence National Centre for Policy and and Management at the Ivey School of Business.

The London International Airport expects a decision by the end of December about whether London will become a federal distribution centre.

"As a federal export distribution centre, we would get international cargo coming to Canada, it would come to London, it would be re-packed and stored here, then shipped to Europe," said London International Aiprot president and CEO Steve Baker.

Cunningham was among several presenters who talked about a competitive transportation policy for the region.


Among the transportation facts presented to board of control:

- London has the third-busiest airport in Canada, after Toronto and Vancouver.

- 80 per cent of London’s exports go to the Greater Toronto Area. The remaining 20 per cent move beyond Toronto.

- London could position itself to become a hub for so-called long-combo vehicles, currently not allowed in Ontario. The Ontario Trucking Association is trying to get the province to allow one truck to pull two 50-foot trailers, as is done in Quebec.

- The city has to work hard now make sure the province and federal government know that if a high-speed train between Windsor and Quebec is built, London wants a stop here.

Presentations by representatives of the airport and trucking industry were made, as well as one by a champion of the high-speed train.

Check back for updates from board of control all day here at lfpress.com.

For the full story, read tomorrow’s Free Press on the web or in print.

To subscribe to The Free Press, click on our subscription page.

Kate Dubinski is a Free Press reporter.

[MolsonExport]

London Free Press (Nov 27/08)

Let's work together
By CHIP MARTIN



Former U.S. president Bill Clinton was in London yesterday to speak at the John Labatt Centre. (Mike Hensen, Sun Media)
A joint Canada-United States response to the current economic crisis will minimize its impact on Canada, former U.S. president Bill Clinton told a London audience yesterday.

"There is no animosity (in the U.S.) against Canada," he assured a crowd of 3,300. "I would be surprised if there is any significant protectionist movement in America."

But Clinton warned that the economies of the two countries are intertwined and "our purchases from you will go down."

And he predicted if General Motors goes bankrupt, it will cost two million jobs in the U.S. alone. He also said a failure by GM would "imperil Ford and Chrysler," all three of whom have significant investments in Canada.

"This is an interdependent world for good and for bad," he told the gathering at the John Labatt Centre.

The event was arranged by the Power Within motivational organization that provides inspirational messages and speakers.

Clinton warned the economic meltdown may get worse before it gets better.

He noted one in 75 homes in Nevada has been foreclosed and a Wal-Mart executive told him sales of home safes are up 30 per cent because even modest-income Americans have lost faith in banks that have lost faith in them.

Clinton urged the audience to see the economic glass as half full rather than half empty, perhaps even feel good, "because there is a vigorous response to this crisis."

President-elect Barack Obama "has put together a remarkable economic team."

Efforts by the U.S. government to turn things around will take time "because we have seen the disappearance of trillions of dollars of wealth," Clinton said.

"A lot of it is psychological," he said. "But psychology affects what bankers do."

Clinton, 62, served as president from 1993 to 2001. The audience paid from $125 to $199 to hear him in his third Canadian speaking engagement in two days.

"When we get through this, we will have a healthier economy in America," Clinton said. "This is bad, it will probably get worse, but help is on the way. We should try to do this together."

He said he hopes the downturn doesn't see wealthy nations curb support for developing nations that will provide future markets for the West and valuable friendships.

"We are going to make some good decisions from here on out," he said. "You should be optimistic. We had to flush some of this stuff out of our system."

Clinton said the Federal Reserve in the United States has pumped billions of dollars into financial institutions to good effect. "The fever has broken a bit," he said.

After his hour-long pep-talk, Clinton was interviewed by former New Brunswick premier Frank McKenna.

Clinton noted the American Thanksgiving Day today was proclaimed by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War.

Lincoln, he said, agreed with his advisers "that there is always something to be thankful for."

---

CLINTON QUOTES

- "We can work through this, but not overnight because so much wealth has disappeared."

- "We should not be blind to steps that are being taken to put sanity back in place."

- "We are facing the prospect of a real shutdown (of the economy)."

- "We should see this as an opportunity and see the glass as half full."

Anyone else go to this event?

[MolsonExport]

London has the third-busiest airport in Canada, after Toronto and Vancouver.


Really? Ahead of Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, etc.? Must be freight. Would like to see the supporting statistics.

[QuantumLeap]

I too, was extremely surprised by that stat. I wondered if that was a mistake - and if so, made by the journalist or the presented at BoC?

As for Goodwill, I would like to see what goes in there. Despite what many in the Planning Department think, most of the downtown growth is never going to occur in the 12-block area that the City calls downtown. SOHO is a prime candidate for redevelopment. It is disappointing that Toronto developers two or three years ago pitched a 200-unit development at South and Wellington that was never built. They opted for townhouses on the site, which as far as I know, haven't been built either.

[QuantumLeap]

Ivey among world's top business schools

By Communications Staff
Friday, November 21, 2008
BusinessWeek magazine ranks an MBA from The Richard Ivey School of Business as one of the top five in the world outside of the United States.

The annual ranking lists Ivey as the fourth best international business school offering MBA programs. Queen’s University topped the list of non-US business schools.

The 50-question survey was distributed to more than 16,700 class of 2008 MBA graduates at 98 schools in North America, Europe, and Asia.

Graduates were asked to evaluate several categories, including teaching quality and career services effectiveness.

Corporate MBA recruiters from 242 companies also filled out a similar online survey and 242 companies responded. The recruiters rated the schools based on the quality of graduates and the company’s history with the graduates.

As well, each school's intellectual-capital rating- the number of faculty members who have been published in academic journals in a select group of publications- was tallied.

For more information or to view the ranking, click here.

[QuantumLeap]

For Immediate Release
LONDON
11/13/2008
SOUTH KOREAN MANUFACTURER BRINGS NEW JOBS TO LONDON: McGuinty Government Investment Helps Secure New Plant

NEWS

About 120 people in London will have new jobs making kitchen countertops when Hanwha opens in 2009.

Hanwha L&C Canada Inc. is building a $70-million plant with the help of a $10-million loan under Ontario's Advanced Manufacturing Investment Strategy (AMIS). The factory produces a durable, high-quality countertop stone surface using a process that minimizes the impact on the environment.

Hanwha Group is a global Fortune 500 company and is the fifth-largest industrial conglomerate in South Korea. The company needs people with skills and experience in the areas of chemical engineering and automated manufacturing, and will be training workers to work safely in a fully automated, high-tech environment.

Helping manufacturers be more competitive is part of the government's five-point plan for the economy.

QUOTES

"We're very proud to welcome Hanwha to Ontario - their first-ever investment in Canada. Their decision helps reinforce Ontario's reputation as the number one manufacturer in North America, and it means 120 families now have hope for a brighter future," said Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty.

"Hanwha is opening its doors in London because they know London is an incredible place to do business. Partnering with Hanwha will help to create jobs and prosperity for Ontarians," said Michael Bryant, Minister of Economic Development.

"Everyone on the Hanwha team is looking forward to beginning production at our new Canadian plant and supplying quality HanStone products to our North American customers. We are very gratified by the support shown from the City of London and the Ontario government and look forward to a being part of the local community and economy," said Hanwha L & C Canada President and CEO Daniel Yu.

QUICK FACTS

* The plant is being built at London's Innovation Park. The park was supported through an $11 million investment from Ontario's $450 million Municipal Infrastructure Investment Initiative.
* Quartz, the base material for the HanStone countertops, is one of the hardest components of natural granite. The only materials harder than quartz are diamonds, sapphires and topaz.
* The $500-million AMIS program provides repayable loans, interest free for up to five years, to encourage companies to invest in leading-edge technologies and processes.

[ssiguy]

Its great about the new plant & highrise for London but I have to say that the area just south of the Wellington subway kinda neat with some interesting shops.
Any pics of the area?

[ldoto]

Taxpayers to keep funding development

Mon, December 1, 2008

A slim majority of London city council has voted to keep millions of dollars flowing from taxpayers to developers as an incentive to draw new industry to the city.
By a vote of 10-8 tonight, council refused to even consider a call by its finance chief to slowly require new industry to pay some of the costs of servicing their factories with roads, pipes and other public works, work that is now paid by taxpayers.

To do otherwise, said Coun. Steve Orser, would make jobs even harder to come by in a time when unemployment is rising.

"It's not about a bailout . . . it's about a welfare check for somebody or an employment check," Orser said.

Council's defense of the status quo went against the advice of finance chief Vic Cote who has proposed developers pay 15 per cent for new industry beginning in 2011, with the change reviewed two years later.




Staff have estimated the current exemption for industry costs taxpayers $2 million a year.

While supporters of the exemption claim it creates jobs and new tax revenue, their claim has never been tested - too costly an assumption to go un-tested, Coun. Nancy Branscombe.

"I think we're doing a disservice to our citizens," she said. There was a greater consensus to maintain a subsidy for developers building residences downtown - only Branscombe, Controller Gina Barber and Coun. Joni Baechler supported considering a phase-out based.

The program was put in place in 1996 but was meant to be temporary, Cote said.

Other incentives and investments in downtown since by city hall have strengthened it enough that council should consider requiring developers to pay some of the costs now borne by taxpayers. But most on council disagreed.

There are about 5,000 people living downtown, only half, or even less, than what's needed for it to thrive, Controller Gord Hume said.

"We're not there yet," he said. But Coun. Joni Baechler argued that taxpayers, having already spent more than $100 million to revitalize downtown, had done their fair share.

"The taxpayers have done their part downtown.

They want some relief," Baechler said. The debate revealed a schism on council over whether the rules for development were a boon or an albatross for London taxpayers, a debate that will be repeated next year when staff are expected to propose a shift in the costs of development that would lighten the load of taxpayers.

For some it is a basic tenant that development, especially industrial development, always pays for itself - both Mayor Anne Marie DeCicco-Best and Deputy Mayor Tom Gosnell said they'd always want taxpayers paying to service new industry.

"I don't support ever bringing back a development charge for industrial land," the mayor said. The exemption for industry has proved critical in attracting new factories, she said.

[MolsonExport]

Council should wake up...given the lousy local economy, taxpayers are not feeling generous, and frankly, a little tired of property (et al.) tax increases that have long outstripped inflation.

[Ldotbyron]

longtime reader of this forum, never really post... I was just wondering if anyone has pics of the renaissance; last time I was home it was almost finished. Whats the status?

[Spicol]

Really? Ahead of Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, etc.? Must be freight. Would like to see the supporting statistics.

Seems to be a mistake to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_busiest_airport

[MolsonExport]

longtime reader of this forum, never really post... I was just wondering if anyone has pics of the renaissance; last time I was home it was almost finished. Whats the status?

Welcome.

I do believe that it is topped off (it appears so, walking past it this week).

[QuantumLeap]

Cargo program OK'd for airport
Thu, December 4, 2008
Change benefits London


By SHOBHITA SHARMA, SPECIAL TO SUN MEDIA

Cargo will now be allowed to move duty-free through London's airport from one country to another, a move that could create more jobs.

Federal Transport Minister John Baird yesterday said the London International Airport has been approved to take part in Ottawa's so-called cargo trans-shipment program.

The approval means freight carriers will now be able to fly goods into London from another country, store them temporarily and transport them to a third country without paying duty or taxes.

"This is something brand new for us -- to bring products and distribute them duty- free," said Steve Baker, the airport's president and chief executive.

The program began at Mirabel Airport in Montreal in 1982, as part of a wider effort to expand use of Montreal-area airports.


Baker said companies moving freight in and out of the airport under the program will be able to repackage and re-label cargo before it's reshipped.

That could mean more local jobs, especially in the freight logistics and transportation industry, he said.

London Deputy Mayor Tom Gosnell, a longtime former airport board member, said the change "couldn't have come at a better time for the (local) economy."

Baker said airport officials they plan to take the game up a notch. "The next step will be to make London a completely free-trade zone," he said.

Under that system, goods that enter the market could be processed here -- adding to their value -- and be re-shipped to another country, again without any taxation.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

Citizens push for control of harbour
Thu, December 4, 2008

By CHIP MARTIN

Port Stanley residents gather tonight to consider how to break a long-standing political logjam and wrest its harbour from federal hands.

The Port Stanley Think Tank is pushing to end a source of local aggravation and get local control of the village's greatest asset.

Transport Canada wants to divest itself of the harbour it has allowed to clog with silt, making it unsuitable for anything except fishing tugs. But after years of high-level talks in secrecy, fed-up local residents are taking action.

"This is a huge issue locally," said Andrew Hibbert, a member of the think tank who organized the meeting. "It's a critical issue and it's been very frustrating to people in the village."

He said private interests are reluctant to make plans with the future of the port so uncertain. Investors on the American side of Lake Erie have talked about cross-lake ferries, but the state of the harbour is so bad and ownership issues so confused they've had to shelve their plans.


Retired Canadian rear admiral Dan McNeil, who has waged a battle to uncover federal plans and the physical state of the harbour, will address the meeting and suggest a path forward.

McNeil said he believes the current talks should be abandoned and a new course of consultation initiated among the Municipality of Central Elgin, Elgin County, Transport Canada and the province. Also needed is a viable plan to fix environmental contamination.

"We're going to develop some proposals," McNeil said, adding he hopes the community gathering will be the first step in a successful bid to resolve the issue of ownership. The alternative is to see the harbour decline further under federal control.

McNeil said he learned MP Joe Preston (C -- Elgin- Middlesex-London) had persuaded Transport Canada to dredge the harbour last spring, but enactment of the Clean Water Act by the Ontario government was one of the reasons that was scuttled. Ontario's new law would forbid the former practice of disposing contaminated harbour sediment offshore.

[manny_santos]

If you want to do a city ring road freeway, it would have to be a new road in the north and west - at grade. Even then it would be extremely expensive - perhaps $20 - $30 mil/km, depending on the number of interchanges, bridges, utility relocations, and land acquisition required. Where the VMP ends to the 402 is 35 km's. That equals at least $700 million. The city could not do it alone - provincial/federal cash would be necessary.

I think it would be wise for the province to take over the VMP, and eventually extend it to St. Marys and Stratford, and link it up with Highway 7/8. At the same time a freeway should be built from this route along the north edge of London out to the 402 between Komoka and Highway 81. The result would be a second major freeway route between Detroit and Toronto, as it would link with I-94/Hwy 402 and the proposed Highway 7 bypass between Kitchener and Guelph, which I understand would eventually be extended into York Region. There is going to come a time when another freeway will be needed along this corridor.

[manny_santos]

With senior governments anxious to spend on public works to create jobs amid the economic downturn, spending on border and transportation improvements is logical and overdue, says former London MPP Dianne Cunningham.

It'll never happen. City Councillors will argue amongst themselves for years, the Killer B's will oppose any new developments, the NIMBY crowd will agree with them, and while Kitchener prospers we'll still be running in circles wondering what to do. I have zero confidence in this city. London is going to get left behind and become more of a national unknown than it is now. There are so many Canadians outside Ontario who have never heard of London it's scary. And those that have heard of it think it's a small town like Napanee or something.

[MolsonExport]

I have to agree that the current administration really comes up short in their 'vision' for what London ought to aspire to.

[QuantumLeap]

:banana: Airport taps feds for $4M distribution centres plan
Mon, December 8, 2008
EXPANSION PROPOSAL

By JONATHAN SHER

London's airport has asked the feds for $4 million to build distribution centres it hopes will be stepping stones to making this the only airport north of Mexico where goods could zip through tax- and duty-free.

The pitch comes as Ottawa plans a stimulus program that would include money for public works during a time of global economic crisis.

With competition fierce for that money -- thousands are expected to apply -- airport president Steve Baker will turn this week to city hall for a letter of support.

"It's important for the city to act as soon as possible," Baker said yesterday.

While other public works will create construction jobs, airport expansion also would provide ongoing employment, he said.:banana:


Click here to find out more!

"It's not just about pipes and potholes," Baker said.

Baker also wants council to support his request to make the new buildings essentially exempt from London property taxes for 10 years --forgoing a few hundred thousand dollars in revenue.

As many as eight distribution centres, each with 100,000 square feet of space :banana: , are needed to make use of a new authority granted to the airport last week by the federal government.

London International Airport was named an export distribution centre that can receive and send cargo around the world. Until now, the airport could receive only cargo that was destined for the city.

But that approval means little if the airport can't build the distribution centres, Baker said.

The new centres are only the first step. Baker also wants the airport to become a free-trade zone where goods from around the world would not attract taxes or duties.

A free-trade zone would allow the airport to do more than receive, sort and send goods -- companies would be allowed to receive parts and assemble or finish them before sending them elsewhere.

If the airport doesn't move aggressively, it risks losing cargo business that has already begun to slip because of tough economic times, Baker said.

The airport also has asked Ottawa for $5 million to build a flight training centre Baker believes would help that business grow. By January, there will be five flight-training schools and one aircraft-maintenance program drawing students from around the world.

[sorry about the bananas, they have become tradition]

[QuantumLeap]

It'll never happen. City Councillors will argue amongst themselves for years, the Killer B's will oppose any new developments, the NIMBY crowd will agree with them, and while Kitchener prospers we'll still be running in circles wondering what to do. I have zero confidence in this city. London is going to get left behind and become more of a national unknown than it is now. There are so many Canadians outside Ontario who have never heard of London it's scary. And those that have heard of it think it's a small town like Napanee or something.

Manny and Molson, I am actually quite glad that you have no confidence in the city. Apparently, the most innovative and visionary things you can imagine happening to this city involve obsolete expressways that have been roundly criticized not just by environmental groups but by politicians, traffic engineers and taxpayers' groups. Expressways are unbelievably costly. They encourage sprawl, which is even more costly. Expressways create air pollution, one of the top causes of death in Ontario, and one of the things many people find unappealing about living in this part of the continent. And they create global warming. Not only does doing something about climate change have a great environmental impact. Not only is "green infrastructure" where the leading countries and cities of the world are going. But also, tightened policy, increased environmental awareness and more expensive cars and oil are going to make your ribbons of concrete obsolete soon enough.

The politicians that you attack are the very politicians who have a real vision for this city. Some of them are pretty pro-environment, I will warrant. But they understand, unlike the Polhills and Carancis, that a clean environment and splendid green spaces are an asset, one of several that would make London great. And the more visionary councillors are also incredibly pro-development. Hume and Bryant, though often at odds, are probably the two most visionary people on council right now. What the smart councillors are limiting is the crappy sprawl that has infected our city for so long. Low-density, strictly segregated by income, family type and use, no transit growth potential, faceless Big Box stores who send their profits to Memphis and Denver, a cruddy-to-non-existent public realm. These are the attributes of this type of growth. I can guarantee you that chic cities like Vancouver and Portland didn't get that way by rubber-stamping developments of the Sifton kind. The good councillors are supporting better protection of green space, placemaking principles, bus rapid transit with an option to upgrade to light rail, green infrastructure improvements, climate change initiatives, central city revitalization, urban design and architecture and funky local business. Tell me you don't think Gosnell and Van Meerbergen are the ones with the big ideas in this city.

[QuantumLeap]

Also, for all your bickering on this message board, tell me, what are you doing to improve this city? Are you writing letters to Council and its various committees? Developments, some good, many bad are constantly coming up for review at the Planning Committee, while the ETC's mandate is to oversee road projects, transit and infrastructure. Are you meeting with politicians? MainStreet? The Urban League? The Chamber of Commerce? Do you call your MPs and MPPs asking for more money, or for support for projects like the new AIDS vaccine centre or the Airport project proposed above?
Or are you just sitting around, complaining, and hoping that things will magically get better?

[MolsonExport]

Also, for all your bickering on this message board, tell me, what are you doing to improve this city? Are you writing letters to Council and its various committees? Developments, some good, many bad are constantly coming up for review at the Planning Committee, while the ETC's mandate is to oversee road projects, transit and infrastructure. Are you meeting with politicians? MainStreet? The Urban League? The Chamber of Commerce? Do you call your MPs and MPPs asking for more money, or for support for projects like the new AIDS vaccine centre or the Airport project proposed above?
Or are you just sitting around, complaining, and hoping that things will magically get better?

I might ask the same question.


You are out of line to adopt that sort of tone against fellow forumers, neither of whom has run for public office. The latter are our elected officials, hence meriting our comments, whether you agree with them or not. As a taxpayer and resident, I resent your caustic suggestion. And do not presume as to what our activities are in regards to advancing the city. Take a quantum leap out of castigating your fellow London forumers, and defend your own perspectives with your own logic. I cannot help but think that you are somehow connected to the current administration. But trust me, your argumentative style does very little to engender a more positive view of the incumbent council.

Finally, I am not at all in favour of urban sprawl and the accompanying highway infrastructure. As a researcher of environmental issues, I resent the insinuation.

[manny_santos]

I might ask the same question.


You are out of line to adopt that sort of tone against fellow forumers, neither of whom has run for public office. The latter are our elected officials, hence meriting our comments, whether you agree with them or not. As a taxpayer and resident, I resent your caustic suggestion. And do not presume as to what our activities are in regards to advancing the city. Take a quantum leap out of castigating your fellow London forumers, and defend your own perspectives with your own logic. I cannot help but think that you are somehow connected to the current administration. But trust me, your argumentative style does very little to engender a more positive view of the incumbent council.

Finally, I am not at all in favour of urban sprawl and the accompanying highway infrastructure. As a researcher of environmental issues, I resent the insinuation.

I concur with Molson. Actually, I took an urban planning course last year at Western with the director of planning for Middlesex County (Steve Evans I think was his name) and I wrote a report recommending that London industrial lands should be assessed with development fees like all residential and commercial lands in the city in order to provide the city with greater financial means to invest more in infrastructure. Other Ontario municipalities levy industrial development fees but London does not. I submitted my report to Councillor Paul Hubert and he said he'd share it with city staff and keep it on file. I believe Vic Cote has the same viewpoint as I do, and he happened to make a similar recommendation to mine quite literally the day before my report was due. I spoke with Sandy Levin on a couple of occasions when he was on City Council as well, I think it was related to the LTC. So, I have taken an active role in trying to help this city.

There are definitely good visionaries on City Council, including Paul Vanmeerbergen. But there has long been bickering and there seems to be no will to move forward with some of the initiatives more progressive municipalities have done. Remember, London was one of the last in Ontario to implement a blue box program.

I believe London should have built an expressway decades ago and I believe certain road corridors are in dire need of widening in the west end of the city - for example, over half the time I spend getting to Western in the morning is spent just getting out of Byron, because Boler Road, Byron Baseline Road, and even the Oxford extension up near STA have horrific congestion. However, I am also a strong believer in public transit, and that's where London needs to put its money.

[LondnPlanr]

Also, for all your bickering on this message board, tell me, what are you doing to improve this city? Are you writing letters to Council and its various committees? Developments, some good, many bad are constantly coming up for review at the Planning Committee, while the ETC's mandate is to oversee road projects, transit and infrastructure. Are you meeting with politicians? MainStreet? The Urban League? The Chamber of Commerce? Do you call your MPs and MPPs asking for more money, or for support for projects like the new AIDS vaccine centre or the Airport project proposed above?
Or are you just sitting around, complaining, and hoping that things will magically get better?

Hi Quantum,

I understand your comments, but I do think that you are directing your angst and frustration at the wrong people. I would imagine that most of the people who frequent this London forum do so to gain knowledge of what the 'development' community in London is up to, which is precisely why I log in on a daily basis. While I take absolutely ZERO offence to your comments, as I understand your frustrations, I do think that those who are easily offended (as exemplified by the comments posted prior to this response) have viewed your comments as an attack on their motives/ideologies.

So, to Molson and Manny, I suggest that you not take too much offence to Quantum's rant, but instead try to understand who he/she is REALLY directing their comments to; the masses who constantly complain, yet do little to contribute to their cause/concern.

The example I like to use most is the issue of the colourful metal trees that have 'sprouted' up around downtown London. To some, including myself, they are a welcomed blast of colour and creativity into the downtown core, but to others, they were offended by the presence of metal trees in the place of what they thought could be real trees. The detractors cry of 'Why use taxpayers money for this?!' was ridiculous, as the trees were funded by the Downtown Business Association and Mainstreet London. In that one sentence, the 'complainers of the trees' lost my respect, because they simply did not do their homework. And if those who complained indeed wanted more real trees within the core, and quite frankly, you will not find anyone who will oppose that notion, where was the community group or group of citizens who approached DBA or Mainstreet to have their idea heard? There wasn't one. And, as an aside, the planting of real trees in the middle of the sidewalks around downtown London probably isn't the best idea in the world, anyhow, but I digress...

So yes, I can understand why Molson and Manny are upset at Quantum's rant. We all can have our own opinions on development and the proper way to go about it, but as a third party reading this 'friendly' conversation, I am willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that Quantum is just having a slightly bad Monday, and took out his/her general frustrations on a few comments that were made previously regarding expressways and such.

And for the record, I am very involved in the City of London, as I am a member of my local community association, a citizen-at-large member of an advisory committee at City Hall, and am employed in the development/environmental field right here in London.

Have a great afternoon,

LondnPlanr

[MolsonExport]

^good posts, LP and MS

[ldoto]

:previous: Those were good posts. We need more of them!!!!!:)

[QuantumLeap]

Well, LondonPlanr is right, I was having a bad Monday. I enjoy logging into the forum like the rest of you to find out what is going on. I am sorry to find that you took my remarks to be personal, but I owe, after re-reading them, that the second part may have seemed that way.

LondonPlanr is right- I am lashing out against the people in the city who complain without doing much. And I know that most of the forummers here actually are doing things to change the city for the better. My questions were genuine - what are people who right on this forum doing to institute their ideas? Get involved if you aren't already. My point is simply that there are some great ideas and persuasive writings posted on the forum, but they go to waste if they aren't published, or brought to committees.

As for the allegation that I am defending the administration, I would have to deny it. I don't work at City Hall, and I am not employed by any councillors. But I am willing, as an avid watcher of Council and City Hall, to correct the facts when people are attacking the people councillors and administration who actually want to move the city forward. And, Manny, I am afraid they are not Vic Cote or Paul VanMeerbergen, two of the most conservative figures at City Hall. The "vision comes up short" because of characters like this. They are the "bickerers" who think that investing in transit is welfare, and who scoff at urban design.

So I'll apologize to those who took my remarks personally. You may read them instead as a call to action. Tell the Forum of initiatives that we should get involved in, proposals about which we should show our upset. I know that people are involved, and this Forum should ideally serve not just as a place to share ideas but to marshal troops for action.

[MolsonExport]

Maps found on SSC with respect to the Giant Smart Centre at Fanshawe pk/Hyde pk:

According to http://www.smartcentres.com/index.cfm

there is 2 more walmarts coming

One at Hibury where that new Rona was Build at comisioners

another at Wonderland and Exeter at Whariancliff

(sorry my spelling sucks for street names)

Also the One at Fanshawe/ Hyde Park is starting contruction on Phase 2
which includes Tiger Direct, Home Outfitters, BMO, RBC, tim hortins, kelseys and more retailers to come

which is will be beside sams club on both sides....(north of Fanshawe)

Site Plan

http://img.skitch.com/20080813-td5nftwb7kbbhxirhf2ti3gqha.preview.jpg (http://skitch.com/ericlewis91/ug2c/site-summary)
Click for full size (http://skitch.com/ericlewis91/ug2c/site-summary) - Uploaded with plasq (http://plasq.com)'s Skitch (http://skitch.com)

Almost Completed Side (South of Fanshawe)

http://img.skitch.com/20080813-xprc2aj7fd55cqd6psbfjxfdh3.preview.jpg (http://skitch.com/ericlewis91/ug2p/site-summary)
Click for full size (http://skitch.com/ericlewis91/ug2p/site-summary) - Uploaded with plasq (http://plasq.com)'s Skitch (http://skitch.com)

thanks ericlewis91, forumer @ SSC

[sparky212]

Tell the Forum of initiatives that we should get involved in, proposals about which we should show our upset. I know that people are involved, and this Forum should ideally serve not just as a place to share ideas but to marshal troops for action.

Rock on:iagree: :notacrook:

[QuantumLeap]

The City is doing a study of the industrial area east of Quebec Street. Could be a great area for lofts, offices, or satellite university/college programs.

[manny_santos]

The City is doing a study of the industrial area east of Quebec Street. Could be a great area for lofts, offices, or satellite university/college programs.

Right around the CPR overpass?

[sparky212]

my neighbour opperates his buisness from there. Right beside the overpass:previous:

[manny_santos]

I'm wondering about the satellite college/university idea...I don't think Western needs another satellite campus in London. They've got a good concept going with Continuing Studies downtown. However in a city the size of London I wouldn't be opposed to another university such as Laurier or Waterloo operating a satellite campus here. As for Fanshawe, well that's so close I don't see a point to putting a satellite campus on Quebec Street.

That said I wouldn't be surprised to see at least the Ivey School of Business expand its existing satellite campus reach. I think they have campuses in Toronto and Hong Kong.

[sparky212]

maybe a ut satellite:previous:

[worldwide]

i think they should keep anything like that downtown. the area between quebec and highbury north of dundas would be interesting as a mix of lofts and live/work spaces. it would help strengthen the old east village area's high street.

is there still a grocery store on florence street?

[LondnPlanr]

is there still a grocery store on florence street?

Nope. That store has been closed for quite a few years now.

[MolsonExport]

I just heard on the radio that Ribfest has been cancelled. Fvck...NOO!

First Balloon fest, now Ribfest.

I love ribfest...been going all the 4 years that I have been living in London.

[manny_santos]

I just heard on the radio that Ribfest has been cancelled. Fvck...NOO!

First Balloon fest, now Ribfest.

I love ribfest...been going all the 4 years that I have been living in London.

Not quite cancelled, but the Boys and Girls Club is pulling out. There is a slight chance another organization might pick it up, but my guess is it'll be gone next summer.

Never mind the ribs, my favourite part of that festival is watching Nick Paparella there year after year on TV. He seems to live there from the time it starts until the time it finishes.

On the plus side Ribfest has led to many other festivals over the summer, and at least we still have those. I don't care for a lot of them personally but I still would like to check out Sunfest.

Wonder what "Hawk Rocks the Park" will be next year, now that said radio station calls themselves 1-0-3-9-FM. 1039 FM Rocks the Park doesn't sound the same, perhaps brother Corus station FM96 could take it on. (1039 FM isn't even supposed to be a London station, they're licensed in Woodstock)

[QuantumLeap]

My favourite festival is Sunfest. Its still going strong, even with 0 city funding. I am disappointed to see these other festivals go by the wayside, but I would love to see Sunfest strengthened to become a nationally-known and attended fest.

As for the grocery store, there's some talk for one to locate in the Gonorhea.

[ldoto]

Wed, December 17, 2008

Carrier will now take you to Halifax and Vancouver every day


WestJet will be flying direct, non-stop flights out of London to Halifax and Vancouver, starting this spring.

In a news release, London International Airport president Steve Baker said the daily coast-to-coast service is the top request of customers.

The service will start on May 11, 2009 and run through until October.

WestJet started its London service in 2002 with just one daily flight; the additional flights will bring the number of daily WestJet flights to five.

The airline also has daily flights from London to Calgary, Winnipeg and Orlando, Fla. :banana::banana::banana:

[ldoto]

To say business at London International Airport is soaring would be both true and, well, too obvious.

Compared to what Steve Baker, chief executive officer of the airport, has in mind, however, it’s a complete understatement.

“We want to develop the airport as a distribution centre for southwestern Ontario,” Mr. Baker says boldly.

Already the third busiest airport in Canada for total aircraft traffic, the Greater London International Airport Authority which operates the facility has set its sights higher. It wants to tap into the International Air Cargo Trans-shipment Program that allows air cargo to be moved through the airport for shipment elsewhere.

Last week the federal government approved London International Airport’s request to join this program, which will enable the growing facility on the city’s eastern border to further develop its air cargo activity and seek new market opportunities.

And those new markets, says Mr. Baker, are in Europe where the federal government has recently negotiated a liberalized air service agreement with the 27 countries of the European Union, creating new opportunities for greater international trade across our region.

More than half of Canada’s overseas tourists hail from Europe and the European Union is Canada’s second largest trading partner after the United States with some $84.2 billion in imports and exports.

The international air cargo decision, on which Mr. Baker and his team have been working for more than a year, is a major coup for the city and one that positions London well to take advantage as the economy begins to improve.

“We see freight as an opportunity for London to be ready for the economic recovery,” Mr. Baker says. “The federal government is proposing to spend billions on infrastructure and we believe a significant amount will come to southwestern Ontario. We want the city to invest not only in pipes and potholes but also support for infrastructure that will provide sustainable jobs. Some of that money can build this infrastructure so that we can re-hire displaced workers from our community.”

There are plenty of reasons to celebrate this concept and the numbers at the London International Airport support these initiatives.

“Our focus is now cargo, passengers, flight training and manufacturing with Diamond Aircraft. We’ve invested in each of these areas for overall success,” Mr. Baker says. “We work with the city and the South Western Economic Assembly. We market to 1.7 million people within that catchment area. By broadening that population’s exposure to the airport we’ve had a 51 per cent increase in passenger traffic.”


He sees this opportunity as one that will secure London’s future as the transportation hub of the region.

“The role of the airport is to be the transportation hub of southwestern Ontario,” Mr. Baker says. “We’re competing with other airports in Ontario and the eastern United States. In this case, it’s essential to collaborate with London and the South Western Economic Assembly for a transportation strategy that includes road, rail and air. There are rail lines at the north and south of London’s airport.”

It’s a vision that has been slowly developing for more than a decade.

“We started 10 years ago in 1998 and developed a strategic plan to diversify the services of the airport,” Mr. Baker says. “We did extensive consultation on what people wanted and what the opportunities were within the region. We were thinking London and outside of London. At that time 90 per cent of our business was from London. This year 45 per cent is from London and 55 per cent is from the region. People throughout South Western Ontario believe that London is the transportation hub and use our services.”

With that has come significant investment but the return has been even more remarkable.

“The original facility was built in 1964 and we invested $20 million in 2003. That investment produced an effective, efficient, low cost and high volume terminal for both passengers and airlines.

“By completing that proposal and doing significant market research we attracted West Jet Airlines into London for direct service across Canada. We started with three flights a week and now its three flights per day. That demonstrated passenger support for the facility and our cost effective service.

“We also added flights with Air Canada, Norwest Airlines and introduced seasonal sun flights five times per week to Florida, Mexico, Cuba and the Dominican Republic. Again, it’s high value and low cost service in a profitable environment for the airlines and customer service for our passengers.”

There has also been amazing growth in international pilot training with students from China and India over the past two years.

“International flight training was introduced in 2007 by one company with students from India. We now have five companies with students from India and China. It’s the largest international flight-training centre in Canada.

“It was seeking opportunities that were long term, created local jobs and are enterprises that the airport can undertake. There are 300 million Chinese and 400 million West Indians who are now evolving to successful middle-class. They have a demand for worldwide access as any country does. China has restricted airspace and does not allow flight training.”

Then there’s the new development around the airport through the Skyway Industrial Park with new opportunities being presented through the international air cargo transshipment program.

“There is 20,000 acres of land at the airport and we have looked at a strategy for using land and introducing new businesses to London in partnership with the City of London. It’s called Skyway Industrial Park with 53 per cent city land and 47 per cent airport lands. It currently includes CEVA Logistics, Billy Bee Honey and London Machinery/Oshkosh Snow Machines are building new facilities as well there’s a UWO research facility and corporate headquarters for Discovery Air and Flightexec,” Mr. Baker says. “We’ve shown significant success and we would now like to replicate that success in our freight division.”

It’s a unique opportunity not to be squandered given that the program was originally introduced in 1982 at Mirabel Airport as part of a larger effort to improve the use of Montreal area airports. It has since been expanded to other airports, including Hamilton (1987), Windsor (1993), Gander (2000), Winnipeg (2004), Edmonton (2006), Calgary (2007), and Abbotsford, Vancouver, Moncton, Toronto, Halifax and Prince George (2008).

The opportunity here is that neither Hamilton nor Windsor is using the program effectively and there’s a great economic argument for choosing London over Toronto.

“The government has been very restrictive in granting this international air cargo transhipment program,” Mr. Baker says. “You have to put forward a business case on how you will use this opportunity. Almost all air cargo goes to Toronto and is distributed and then shipped back to Toronto and flown out.

“We’re saying we’re more cost effective than Toronto and our cost are one tenth of Toronto’s. Toronto has invested but has debt of $4.4 billion. That relates to many of the fees and charges at the airport.”

While this is promising, Mr. Baker is not done yet.

“We’re out seeking development opportunities all the time. I have a vice president and myself who seeks opportunities on a continuing basis. We’re also working on passenger convenience. We’re working with the federal government to have arrivals duty free rather that buying duty free items prior to your return flight to Canada,” Mr. Baker says. “We built our success on our strategy and what we believe will be successful. We have a proven track record in ever area.”:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[worldwide]

Nope. That store has been closed for quite a few years now.

thanks for the info. i remember hearing that the valu-mart wanted to close down, but i wasnt sure if it did. is there still a valu-mart in wortley village?

[LondnPlanr]

thanks for the info. i remember hearing that the valu-mart wanted to close down, but i wasnt sure if it did. is there still a valu-mart in wortley village?

Yes, the Valu-Mart is still there. It was to be closed at one point several years ago, but the neighbourhood really rallied and put an end to that rather quickly. While I do reside in Wortley Village, I do not do all of my shopping at that Valu-Mart, as I find the prices to be slightly higher than the Loblaws chain (No Frills, Superstore, etc.). However, it sure is nice to have a grocery store just around the corner for 'emergency' purposes.

As for the store's closing being halted, it is a perfect example of what a strong, and more importantly, unified voice can do to achieve something.

[ldoto]

Velodrome Victory (SEE VIDEO)

Riders headed for Success


Video Link
http://www.atv.ca/london/news_65202.aspx

They said it wouldn't last but four years later, the Forest City Velodrome is not only hopping, there are at least 3-riders who are expected to make the National team.

As Sarah Mcgrath tells us not only are the athletes talented and quick, they're actually pretty new to the sport. :cool: :cool:

[ldoto]

:previous:
^^
Here's the Forest City Velodrome Home page if anyone is interested!!!!

http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca/

[jbishop23]

London is gonna be sweet man, I can't wait. I go out there sometimes to watch the Knights.

[QuantumLeap]

Happy New Years!

[sparky212]

Has anybody gone to the renniasance open house??? I might be going

[manny_santos]

:previous:
^^
Here's the Forest City Velodrome Home page if anyone is interested!!!!

http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca/

I'm glad to see the old London Gardens is still living on and is being used for sports. Wasn't it originally supposed to be torn down before it became a truck storage facility?

[london2020]

I looked through the draft 2009 budget and these are my findings in terms of road work in the next several years. Some of it is good, while other stuff is disappointing.

Where: Wonderland Rd (Gainsborough to Fanshawe)
What: Widening to 4 Lanes
When: 2010
Cost: $11.8 million

Where: Hale St / Trafalgar / CN Rail
What: Grade Separation
When: 2011-2013
Cost: $16 million
Notes: $4 m already spent, apparently. I have no idea what this will look like. It's a real mess now though.

Where: Commissioners Rd (Wonderland to Viscount)
What: Widen to 5 lanes
When: 2012
Cost: $13.7 million
Notes: Well, it's obviously a good idea. But why did they waste all that money repaving it recently?

Where: Sarnia Rd (Sleightholme to Wonderland)
What: Widen from 3 to 4 lanes.
When: 2012
Cost: $5.1 million
Notes: Basically they're adding another westbound lane up to Wonderland.

Where: Sarnia Rd (Wonderland to Hyde Park)
What: 2 Lane Urban Cross Section with sidewalks, streetlights
When: 2011
Cost: $8.1 million
Notes: It is unclear if this includes the cost of the bridge. If all they're going to do is add sidewalks to the garbage road that is already there, this is sad indeed. The road is horrific, and what they did to it recently accomplished nothing.

Where: Sarnia Rd (Wonderland to Hyde Park)
What: Widening to 4 Lanes
When: 2022
Cost: $9.6 million

Where: Byron Baseline Rd (Griffith to Westdel)
What: Add sidewalks, curbs, drainage, lights, cycle lanes
When: 2019
Cost $3.9 million

Where: Wonderland Rd (Fanshawe to Sunningdale)
What: Widening to 4 Lanes
When: 2021
Cost: $7.7 million
Notes: Sounds like a decent timetable, until you realize it's being done at the same time (and thus given the same importance) as the one listed below.

Where: Wharncliffe (Springbank to Becher)
What: Widening to 4 Lanes, Replacing Overpass
When: 2021
Cost: $10.4 million
Notes: This needed to be done 20 years ago, not 12 years from now.

Where: Beaverbrook (Riverside to Oxford)
What: Add sidewalks, curbs, drainage, lights, cycle lanes
When: 2014
Cost: $3.5 million

Where: Sunningdale Rd (South Winege to Highbury)
What: Add sidewalks, curbs, drainage, lights, cycle lanes
When: 2013-2015
Cost: $3.5 million

Where: Fanshawe Rd (Adelaide to Highbury)
What: Widen from 2 to 5 lanes
When: 2010, 2016
Cost: 19.8 million
Notes: It says "Highbury Intersection" in 2010 and the rest in 2016. Not clear what this really means, but the cost in 2010 is said to be $2.6 million of the total.

Where: Southdale Road (Wickerson to Boler)
What: Resolve structural and alignment deficiencies
When: 2019 and 2022
Cost: $6.0 million
Notes: No idea what this really means. They say upgrade from urban to rural has been deferred. So basically this will remain outrageously dangerous since there will be no sidewalks or lights.

Where: Wickerson (Ironwood to Southdate)
What: Resolve structural and alignment deficiencies.
When: 2020
Cost: $4.7 million
Notes: 1.2km already done. This is the remainder. Don't count on sidewalks or lights.

Where: Kilally Rd (Webster to Clarke)
What: Convert from Rural to Urban. (sidewalks, lights etc)
When: 2013, 2014, 2015
Cost: $8.2 million
Notes: Yeah, let's build this in the middle of nowhere while development on Sarnia surrounds a 100 year old bridge and Wharncliffe funnels to 2 lanes to fit under that garbage overpass! /sarchasm

Where: Clarke (Kilally to Fanshawe)
What: Widen from 2 to 4 lanes
When: 2017
Cost: $17.5 million
Notes: I assume a lot of the cost is going to be in a new bridge. Further, I assume this is to give the capacity needed since the VMP will terminate/merge. Will this be an expressway like the VMP?

Where: Hyde Park (Oxford to Gainsborough)
What: Widen from 2 to 4 lanes
When: 2014 and 2015
Cost: $21 million
Notes: This will require a new bridge over the tracks, which is assume is included in the cost. The rail overpass further north appears to already be wide enough. The stage from Oxford to Sarnia will be done in 2014, and the rest will be done in 2015.

Where: Hyde Park (Gainsborough to Sunningdale)
What: Widen from 2 to 4 lanes.
When: 2016-2026.
Cost: $17.2 million.
Notes: The 2026 part makes sense for the 2nd phase (north of Fanshawe), but why the HELL haven't they already widened it from Fanshawe to Gainsborough? It gets absolutely jammed around there due to the massive "Smart Center." How foolish.

Where: Huron (Adelaide to Vesta)
What: Widen from 2 to 4 lanes
When: 2020
Cost: $12.8 million
Notes: This should be done already.

Where: Bradley (Wellington to Jackson)
What: Widen from 2 to 4 lanes
When: 2017, 2026
Cost: $39 million
Notes: Phase 1 in 2017 is Wellington to Pond Mills. The rest is 2026. Phase 2 involves a new bridge.

Where: Wellington (Comissioners to Dingman)
What: Widen to 6 lanes
When: 2015, 2016, 2018
Cost: $17.1 million
Notes: Looks like there are 3 stages.

Where: Southdale (Wonderland to Wharncliffe)
What: Widen to 4 lanes
When: 2012
Cost: $10.5 million

Where: Southdale (Wellington to Pond Mills)
What: Widen to 4 lanes
When: 2019
Cost: $21.1 million

Where: Western Rd (Platt to Oxford)
What: widen to 4 lanes
When: 2020
Cost: $16.2 million
Notes: Requires new CN overpass. This should be done already! Jeez!

Where: Oxford St (Hyde Park to Sanatorium)
What: Widen to 4 lanes
When: 2013
Cost: $12.9 million
Notes: Sound wall will be built in 2009. Why aren't they going all the way to Comissioners with this? They built a 4 lane bridge over the river, after all! Oh right, London loves its "accordion" roads.

Where: Sunningdale Rd (Wonderland to Adelaide)
What: Widen to 4 lanes
When: 2014-2017, 2024
Cost: $36 million
Notes: They plan to first reconstruct it as a 2-lane urban road with sidewalks etc from Adelaide to Richmond. This will happen in the 2014-2017 period. They don't specify when the Richmond to Wonderland part will be done. Around 2024 they will expand it to 4 lanes: first from Richmond to Adelaide, and later the other part.

Where: VMP Extension Phase II
What: Construct 4 lane from Huron to Clarke.
When: 2016, 2022
Cost: $18.9 million.
Notes: There will be grade separation at Huron and at CN. There will be a phase in 2016 and a phase in 2022 -- don't know what will happen when. I think in the description they forget to mention the fact that it will actually be a project from Oxford to Clarke, since the Oxford to Huron part is currently useless 2 lanes, and the mention of CN grade separation implies work in that area.

Where: Sunningdale (Highbury to Adelaide)
What: Widen to 4 lanes
When: Beyond 2019
Cost: $15.7 million
Notes: They plan to first improve the intersection at Highbury, and later widen Sunningdale. So far the only timetable given is Beyond 2019. Though the numbers seem to indicate the intersection job will be done in 2014.

Where: Fanshawe Park Rd (Clarke to Highbury)
What: Widen from 2 to 5 lanes
When: 2018
Cost: $16.1 million

Where: Southdale (Pine Valley to Colonel Talbot)
What: Widen from 2 to 5 lanes
When: Beyond 2019
Cost: $21.2 million
Notes: Two phases. No specific timeline yet.

[MolsonExport]

^very interesting. I enjoyed the color commentary!

[QuantumLeap]

Agreed. I enjoyed the colour commentary as well. I am glad to see that we won't be building new roads this year. Where we should be putting our money is into the BRT system, that will hopefully be upgraded soon into LRT. This will drive the quality, dense development that we are looking for. The City has never really followed its budgeted timelines for roads, and I hope it doesn't follow this timeline. It is high time to stop building and expanding roads, and put new trip growth into alternative modes, for economic and environmental reasons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis-Mogridge_Position

[manny_santos]

I am disappointed there will be no new road building this year, and that there wasn't any in 2008. The road system in London is the absolute worst in Ontario, and it is one of the reasons I am moving away once I'm done university. It is impossible to get anywhere in the city within a reasonable amount of time, and the congestion is only adding to pollution.

There are corridors which should have been widened in the 1960s or 70s as they were developed, which is the way it is done in almost every other city in Ontario. Derry Road in the east end of Milton was already widened a couple years ago as development sprung up along it, if that were London it would remain a two-lane road with no curbs until 2035 (just look how long it took to widen Hutton/Wonderland north of Sarnia, over 30 years after a lot of that area developed including Sherwood Forest Mall). Likewise Commissioners between Wonderland and Viscount began developing in the 1960s and it should've been widened then. Southdale between Wharncliffe and Wonderland is a nightmare and should have been widened in the early 90s when that area was developing.

Oh, and Byron Baseline Road not getting curbs for another 10 years...I sure hope they repave it before then. Hasn't been done since 1979. The major roads in Byron need to be widened to four lanes NOW. At rush hour, you can't get anywhere in Byron, and Boler/Sanitorium is backed up solidly for almost two kilometres.

[Snark]

..

[london2020]

Well, Sarnia Rd is so bad I think the city should approach the federal government and beg for some money.

[sparky212]

did you guys know it 0nly cost 100 million to build olp:omg:

[ldoto]

It's London's newest attraction and it's almost ready.:cheers: :cheers:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/ldoto/News%20Paper%20Photos/LDN20090106ML01FOUNTAIN.jpg:banana::banana::banana:

It was hard for contractors testing the new Blackburn Memorial Fountain at the Forks of the Thames yesterday to keep it a secret as water shot 30 metres into the air.

It was a treat for drivers and people walking by -- many of whom stopped and watched the tests.

Landscape architect Ron Koudys says the tests are going well and the fountain meets all expectations.

The tests were delayed a bit by flooding last week.

The fountain could be completed as early as next week.

Fountain at Forks of Thames Passes First Test (VIDEO)
http://www.am980.ca/home/News/GeneralNewsDetail/tabid/967/Default.aspx?id=3721

[tolosulode]

Simply amazing how people can take complex technical, social, and financial issues and just bitch, point fingers and call them stupid. Oh, and where do you keep your money tree? I'm sure that the city could use a little of its fruit.

London has a long history of not spending infrastructure money wisely nor taking advantage of rare opportunities. Twice in the last sixty years, offers of substantial funding assistance from federal and provincial departments for transportation infrastructure improvements were refused, one for the "Highbury Expressway" and the other for 400 series highway around the north end of London connecting the 401 to the 402. The result is slow economic growth relative to peer cities across Canada and congested traffic patterns. Major thoroughfares in London are commonly residential in nature (e.g.'s large portions of Highbury Ave., Oxford St., Wharncliffe Rd., Richmond St.). It is not uncommon to have rush hour traffic on these routes slowed by service vehicles such as those used for recycling/garbage pick up. Neighbourhoods along these routes have been compromised and divided by the inordinate volume of traffic required to use them. Alternative routes that ideally suit modern traffic flow are Veteran's Memorial Parkway, Highbury Ave. south of Hamilton Rd., Highways 401 and 402 but the central and north end routes are lacking.
A new set of offers for the funding of infrastructure development will be made by senior government authorities to mitigate the effects of the current economic recession. This will be London's third major offer of funding for infrastructure improvement. This third opportunity should not be wasted nor refused otherwise, as in baseball, London will be OUT for good.

[sparky212]

Isn't the renniasance the tallest building u/c in ontario outside the gta?

[GreatTallNorth2]

London has a long history of not spending infrastructure money wisely nor taking advantage of rare opportunities.

This is the truth. If you look at other cities like Kitchener and Windsor, they always take advantage of the handouts. Windsor and Kitchener both have great expressways. Kitchener has a plan to build true rapid transit along with multiple highway upgrades, etc. London does everything piecemeal and never has a plan. I was thinking of writing a book on London called "The Magic of Thinking Small?". Our council is small minded...cities have our size put us to shame.

[london2020]

Isn't the renniasance the tallest building u/c in ontario outside the gta?

Hilton in Niagara is much taller.

[london2020]

London has a long history of not spending infrastructure money wisely nor taking advantage of rare opportunities. Twice in the last sixty years, offers of substantial funding assistance from federal and provincial departments for transportation infrastructure improvements were refused, one for the "Highbury Expressway" and the other for 400 series highway around the north end of London connecting the 401 to the 402. The result is slow economic growth relative to peer cities across Canada and congested traffic patterns. Major thoroughfares in London are commonly residential in nature (e.g.'s large portions of Highbury Ave., Oxford St., Wharncliffe Rd., Richmond St.). It is not uncommon to have rush hour traffic on these routes slowed by service vehicles such as those used for recycling/garbage pick up. Neighbourhoods along these routes have been compromised and divided by the inordinate volume of traffic required to use them. Alternative routes that ideally suit modern traffic flow are Veteran's Memorial Parkway, Highbury Ave. south of Hamilton Rd., Highways 401 and 402 but the central and north end routes are lacking.
A new set of offers for the funding of infrastructure development will be made by senior government authorities to mitigate the effects of the current economic recession. This will be London's third major offer of funding for infrastructure improvement. This third opportunity should not be wasted nor refused otherwise, as in baseball, London will be OUT for good.

Are you talking about the $30m in funding from the province? Because I wouldn't characterize that as "substantial." However, I was wondering if that is already worked into the budget I posted? Please elaborate.

[sparky212]

sorry I ment to say resedential:previous:

[QuantumLeap]

As previously reported, new condo project in the Old East going to Planning Committee later in the month:

Jan 26, 4:45 p.m. - 726-748 Dundas Street - The proposed amendment is to permit the construction an 8-storey mixed use residential/commercial building with an increase in the permitted density of the site to accommodate 154 residential units and a reduction in the minimum front yard depth. Possible amendment to the Zoning By-law Z.-1 FROM a Business District Commercial Special Provision (BDC(19)*D250*H46) Zone which permits a broad range of retail, office, commercial, and residential uses with residential uses limited to the rear portion of the ground floor and on the second floor and above with a maximum height of 46m and a density of 250 units per hectare TO a Holding Business District Commercial Special Provision Bonus (h-67*BDC(19)*D250*H46*B-(_)) Zone to continue to permit the above listed uses with a bonusing provision to accommodate the proposed residential/commercial building subject to a holding provision to ensure that a Record of Site Condition is undertaken. The bonusing provision would permit an additional density of 233 units per hectare on the site (total 483 units per hectare); a reduction in the minimum setback for building height above 12m; balconies to project closer than 3m to the lot line; and a minimum of 30 secure bicycle parking spaces in exchange for specific design features.
File: Z-7544 Planner: Michael Tomazincic

[SlickFranky]

Twice in the last sixty years, offers of substantial funding assistance from federal and provincial departments for transportation infrastructure improvements were refused, one for the "Highbury Expressway" and the other for 400 series highway around the north end of London connecting the 401 to the 402. The result is slow economic growth relative to peer cities across Canada and congested traffic patterns.


The one thing I always wonder about is how London would have been different if the 402 had passed through the city, rather than connecting to the 401 so far to the south. I drew up a little map here (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&split=0&hl=en&msa=0&ll=42.948381,-81.295052&spn=0.13721,0.423317&z=12&msid=107956137300909335075.000460131dd35ee9d951e) to show what I mean. Not really sure how I feel about this...what do you guys think?

[sparky212]

As previously reported, new condo project in the Old East going to Planning Committee later in the month:

Jan 26, 4:45 p.m. - 726-748 Dundas Street - The proposed amendment is to permit the construction an 8-storey mixed use residential/commercial building with an increase in the permitted density of the site to accommodate 154 residential units and a reduction in the minimum front yard depth. Possible amendment to the Zoning By-law Z.-1 FROM a Business District Commercial Special Provision (BDC(19)*D250*H46) Zone which permits a broad range of retail, office, commercial, and residential uses with residential uses limited to the rear portion of the ground floor and on the second floor and above with a maximum height of 46m and a density of 250 units per hectare TO a Holding Business District Commercial Special Provision Bonus (h-67*BDC(19)*D250*H46*B-(_)) Zone to continue to permit the above listed uses with a bonusing provision to accommodate the proposed residential/commercial building subject to a holding provision to ensure that a Record of Site Condition is undertaken. The bonusing provision would permit an additional density of 233 units per hectare on the site (total 483 units per hectare); a reduction in the minimum setback for building height above 12m; balconies to project closer than 3m to the lot line; and a minimum of 30 secure bicycle parking spaces in exchange for specific design features.
File: Z-7544 Planner: Michael Tomazincic

Do you know whre I could find a rendering of it??

[tolosulode]

Are you talking about the $30m in funding from the province? Because I wouldn't characterize that as "substantial." However, I was wondering if that is already worked into the budget I posted? Please elaborate.
Yes, there is currently an offer of funding for infrastructure improvements and there will likely be a similar offers for each of several years to come from senior levels of government.

The one thing I always wonder about is how London would have been different if the 402 had passed through the city, rather than connecting to the 401 so far to the south. I drew up a little map here to show what I mean. Not really sure how I feel about this...what do you guys think?

The route I alluded to would not have displaced the current 402 but rather added an additional route running from the southeast to the northwest to the 402 around the periphery of the city (i.e. ring road). Nevertheless, London's contribution to the project was to be less than 50%.

[manny_santos]

I did hear a passing reference this week to looking at "adding more lanes" at the intersection of Commissioners and Wellington. While Commissioners could use another lane in each direction there, there are some areas of the city in dire need.

Certain corridors need to be six lanes, including Fanshawe Park, Oxford, Highbury, Adelaide, Wellington, Commissioners, and Wonderland. Numerous other areas need to be widened to four lanes, including parts of Commissioners, Oxford, Wonderland, Boler/Sanitorium, Riverside, and Southdale. I was on Fanshawe Park last week heading east towards Masonville, and the lineup at Richmond was all the way up the hill. Took me almost 40 minutes to get to Masonville from my west-end home.

When I have more time, I'll go through my 2005 traffic counts and make a more detailed plan using Google Maps.

Sure, money doesn't grow on trees, but other cities don't have the problems London does. I would be in favour of London and the rest of Middlesex County amalgamating into a Regional Municipality (heck, throw in Elgin and St. Thomas), if it means a regional approach to transportation can be achieved. A regional transit plan involving multiple communities could be achieved. Regional Municipalities like Halton, York, and Waterloo don't seem to have the same problems as cities existing in isolation from the surrounding county.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Hello everyone,
I am a long time reader, but a first time poster. Great Forum!
Just to give you all a quick bio I’ve lived in London for the past 17 years, I am attending Fanshawe College in the Integrated Land Planning Bachelor degree program and I am very interested in urban design and how it good Urban Design could benefit London.
I've been very active in the planning community for the past 9 months and hope to continue...

I have one comment to make to those who believe our roads need to be wider... Congestion is our Friend. We should start building our cities for the people and not the Automobile :) Public transit should be the way to get people around and a grid street network should be implemented in every new subdivision to improve connectivity and walkability for pedestrians. :)

One last thing,
A friend and I have started a blog about Urban Design in London and the Region of Waterloo.. We mostly talk about all sorts of interesting projects from an Urban Design point of view and other stuff as well. If your interested please check it out, add your comments maybe we can spark some conversations on Urban Design.

http://urbanitydesign.wordpress.com/

We will try to update it as much as possible, as new projects pop up in London. If anyone has heard of new project let us know we will try to get you the inside scoop ;)

[ldoto]

:previous: welcome to the Londonthread JrUrbanDesigner!!!!!:tup: :tup:

I took a look at your blog about Urban Design in London and the Region of Waterloo!!!! There is some cool stuff:cool: .

Hope to hear from you soon again thanks ldoto.;)

P.S I have add your blog to my favorites!!!!

[manny_santos]

Unfortunately we are at a point in society where automobiles are here to stay. We have a city designed by people from before us, and we have to deal with it. Our forefathers decided to locate zero industry, virtually no places to work, and spaghetti streets in areas like Byron and Oakridge, so our current generation has to deal with it. We can't just start tearing down subdivisions to build grid-pattern streets and new offices and stores. Public transit is slow and inefficent at moving people. Less congestion means less pollution from idling, and unlike what the environmentalists keep claiming, wider roads don't make tons of new cars magically appear. After Oxford was widened between Wonderland and Hyde Park, sure, there were more cars on Oxford, but traffic on Riverside decreased substantially. It was a win-win situation for that area.

[sparky212]

any word on the grocerie store in the galleria

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Manny Santos, I’m sorry I know this is only my second post and it may seem that I am just a rookie here, however I've got quite about of knowledge under my belt. AND I can't keep silent anymore :hell:

You are right that we are a society dependant on the automobile, but will we always continue to be? When the economy starts to recover and oil prices (gas prices) rise once again this time to new highs will as many people drive? I know for a fact that this past summer LTC ridership had skyrocketed to a point where busses were so full they had to leave people waiting at stops for the next bus. I own a car, but when I worked downtown for the last 9 months I took the bus in, it was not slow.. it was almost always on time.. never really had a problem other than finding a seat on the bus. When I go back to school on Monday I will be taking the bus, I live in South London and it takes me about 30 mins by bus to get to Fanshawe only about 5-10 mins more then by car.

And about the subdivisions, pretty much every new one(not only Oakridge or Byron) are made up of loops and lollipops.. Its unfortunate but very true :( Have you ever looked at the city's Placemaking guidelines? or seen any Placemaking or New Urbanist projects? These type of subdivisions make sense and are popping up all over North America not only does the GTA only allow such subdivisions but they are happening in Waterloo Region as well. I'm not sure if any one here has heard of what the city of Charlotte, NC is doing? they have implemented a connectivity ratio that every new subdivision must meet.. pretty much the subdivision must connect to the rest of the existing city in a Grid street pattern. Not only do they have to meet the connectivity ratio they must also put money into a pot called the Connectivity Fund which has been created to retrofit existing loop and lollipop subdivision! And no Manny- they don’t have to tear down the whole neighborhood they simply reconnect cul-de-sacs and crescents by purchasing properties and creating road and pedestrian connections... pretty interesting stuff!

Again wider roads are not the answer, honestly we are just wasting our tax dollars in widening roads. Statistically speaking Wellington road, being a gateway to the city(from the 401), is probably one of the most travelled roads day to day. I live right off of Wellington and took it into downtown everyday, the road is only at capacity for max. 20 mins in the morning and 20 mins in the late afternoon. Just like every major road that goes near or into the downtown, should we really be widening our roads for that 40 mins a day? why not put that type of money towards more efficient transit? maybe an LRT system? The wider we make our streets the uglier we make our city... the point to wider streets is to carry more traffic and the way engineers see it is that there has to be as little access to this wide "high traffic street" as possible, thus creating rear lotted subdivisions with board on board fences lining our streets is that a great streetscape? is that a street YOU would enjoy walking down?

[worldwide]

hey junior. good to have you here. you know your stuff.

Unfortunately we are at a point in society where automobiles are here to stay.

... probably not. with peak oil rearing its ugly head, and alternative energies that are looking more and more like a bust.

as a society we are going to be much less wasteful with our resources. London's roads are fine. don't like traffic congestion? get a bike.

[tolosulode]

I have one comment to make to those who believe our roads need to be wider... Congestion is our Friend.

That's like saying cancer is our friend in that it will lead to a healthier lifestyle. True, that is one aspect but singular approach solutions to problems are never the correct way to an effective and efficient solution. I hope your teachers at Fanshawe are allowing for some critical thinking and questioning of their ideas and not simply brainwashing you. Did any of them mention that congestion leads to air pollution? Did any of them mention that London's transportation network has held back economic development? Did any of them mention that growth starts with employment opportunities brought forth by an influx of business/industry wanting to locate in a city with actual functioning infrastructure in place? Do you think Toyota located their new plant in Woodstock because Woodstock's transportation network is inefficient like London's? London bid for that plant as well as for the new Honda facility and has lost out. Next in line is Hyundai. Will they choose London? I doubt it. The automobile will not fade away as quickly as you may believe. Wheels have been around since chariots were popular. Cars will only change in regards to how they are powered but their numbers will not diminish.

Narrower, grid pattern roads in subdivision development is not a new idea (look at the Wortley Village area) and this type of development is far superior to what has been used as the norm for the last half century. Narrow arterial and collector routes are another issue. Without a healthy traffic flow pattern, just like a heart, the system will seize up and be inefficient. No major company would want to locate their facilities in a city that has transportation thrombosis.

By the way, did you see London's score on economic prospects relative to peer cities across Canada published yesterday in the London Free Press on Saturday, Jan. 10? The CIBC study rated London 21st out of 24 cities in no small part to poor decision making in the past that have put a stanglehold on economic development. As I had mentioned in an earlier post, decisions made sixty or so years ago about London not setting up an efficient transportation network have come to roost and hence London is not receiving any golden eggs.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

That's like saying cancer is our friend in that it will lead to a healthier lifestyle. True, that is one aspect but singular approach solutions to problems are never the correct way to an effective and efficient solution. I hope your teachers at Fanshawe are allowing for some critical thinking and questioning of their ideas and not simply brainwashing you. Did any of them mention that congestion leads to air pollution? Did any of them mention that London's transportation network has held back economic development? Did any of them mention that growth starts with employment opportunities brought forth by an influx of business/industry wanting to locate in a city with actual functioning infrastructure in place? Do you think Toyota located their new plant in Woodstock because Woodstock's transportation network is inefficient like London's? London bid for that plant as well as for the new Honda facility and has lost out. Next in line is Hyundai. Will they choose London? I doubt it. The automobile will not fade away as quickly as you may believe. Wheels have been around since chariots were popular. Cars will only change in regards to how they are powered but their numbers will not diminish.

Narrower, grid pattern roads in subdivision development is not a new idea (look at the Wortley Village area) and this type of development is far superior to what has been used as the norm for the last half century. Narrow arterial and collector routes are another issue. Without a healthy traffic flow pattern, just like a heart, the system will seize up and be inefficient. No major company would want to locate their facilities in a city that has transportation thrombosis.



Its funny because you assume that I've been brainwashed by my professors.. however I get informed in many other ways than just school, I've been to many world famous planner/Urban Designer presentations, I've travelled to better planned communities, and I read a lot of books, magazines and a lot from the internet, I don’t believe I'm misinformed but thanks! :) So basically your telling me that EVERY capitol city in Europe is a complete failure... London England for example has narrower streets and a hell of a lot more congestion then you could handle, and I don’t see their economic development failing. You may say I shouldn’t be comparing our city to a European capitol, then I don’t think you should be comparing London to WOODSTOCK! - are you kidding me? :haha: they are a tiny town and the real reason Toyota located in Woodstock is to be closer to their other plant in Cambridge this way they are closer to their existing suppliers...

I'm not sure if you just skimmed through my post but i did mention that our Arterial roads are only EXTREMELY busy for about 40 mins day... 20 in the morning 20 mins in the late afternoon.. what the point of creating these vast roads for just that time? I’m not a business man but I'm pretty sure that not a wise way to spend money...

:haha: Of course I’ve heard of Old South and Wortley village, and Old North which all have grid street patterns, these go way back....talking to those who live in those areas they seem to have a better community feeling with their village center, homes closer to the street, garages hidden in the back (or laneway), and their connectivity (there are very few dead ends, making them a more walkable community)

Please don’t assume.
Urban Design is all a conversation- it's my passion, I could talk about all these issues for hours.

On another note-
Has anyone noticed that the Tim Horton's and Elephant Castle are now both officially gone from Galleria- However if Rumors are true... there should be another coffee shop replacing Tim's, who has relocated to a bigger location in the City Center (across the street from Galleria) in the side parking lot off of Dundas. Apparently there will be a New restaurant replacing Elephant Castle probably around the same time as they reveal the new entrance into Galleria- Any thoughts on the Design of that?

[sparky212]

The new entrance to the Galleria looks great:cheers: . If they could have extended to wellington square it would look better

[tolosulode]

Its funny because you assume that I've been brainwashed by my professors.. however I get informed in many other ways than just school, I've been to many world famous planner/Urban Designer presentations, I've travelled to better planned communities, and I read a lot of books, magazines and a lot from the internet, and don't forget your 9 months of work experience too. My question is "are you even allowed to question their ideas?" If so, welcome to the realm of true eduction otherwise, start questioning their ideas. I don’t think you should be comparing London to WOODSTOCK! - are you kidding me? :haha: London very much wanted the success Woodstock now enjoys otherwise London would not have even tried to get Toyota to locate here. London wished this was their news story. http://dcnonl.com/article/20060310300 they are a tiny town but not for long. Brantford, Kitchener, Preston, Galt, Hespler, Waterloo, Hamilton and many other cities were at one time too tiny in comparison to London which has now been left in their dust.
I'm not sure if you just skimmed through my post but i did mention that our Arterial roads are only EXTREMELY busy for about 40 mins day... 20 in the morning 20 mins in the late afternoon.. what the point of creating these vast roads for just that time? I’m not a business man but I'm pretty sure that not a wise way to spend money... Part of any economic strategy is forecasting the future and forecasts for reduced traffic volume is unwarranted thus the need for wider arterial and collector roads but as I mentioned in a previous post, residential neighbourhoods require narrower grid pattern roads that are not currently accepted in practice by developers and planners but are sought after by municipal engineering authorities for these are ideal for servicing and help create a true sense of "community".
Your lack of business sense at such a young stage of your career is understandable and is an issue that in part should be addressed at your educational institution. You can only make meaningful decisions about planning a community with an emphasis on the quality of life which is most directly related to economic well-being. Please again refer to my reference to the article in the London Free Press published yesterday, Sat. Jan. 10 concerning London's alarmingly poor economic perforrmance relative to peer cities across the country. London ranks 21st out of 24 cities which in any professor's grade sheet is an F-.

London's growth, or lack thereof, is affected by, as you mentioned, to it's proximity to larger urban centres. Toyota needs to be near suppliers in the Kitchener-Waterloo region and thus choosing Woodstock makes sense for their new assembly plant but the confluence of the 403 and 401 at Woodstock also had a bearing on Toyota's decision. If London is ever to "catch up" in terms of growth with the norm across the country, London needs to go beyond servicing the community in an ordinary fashion and must do the extraordinary to get noticed since it is inherently at a disadvantage simply by its distant location from high-growth areas.

[manny_santos]

I'm not sure if you just skimmed through my post but i did mention that our Arterial roads are only EXTREMELY busy for about 40 mins day... 20 in the morning 20 mins in the late afternoon.. what the point of creating these vast roads for just that time? I’m not a business man but I'm pretty sure that not a wise way to spend money...

Not all of them. Have you ever been on some of the two-lane roads in London? Wonderland between Gainsborough and Fanshawe Park Road is congested at ALL times of day. Oxford between Hyde Park and Sanitorium is congested at ALL times of day. Commissioners between Wonderland and Viscount, as well as Hyde Park between Oxford and Fanshawe Park, same deal.

I feel the economic and pollution reduction benefits of a good transportation network far outweigh the costs. That does include public transit, but no matter how big a public transit system there is there will always be tons of road traffic. And, once we move to non-polluting energy sources, we will still need wide roads to carry traffic.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

residential neighbourhoods require narrower grid pattern roads that are not currently accepted in practice by developers and planners but are sought after by municipal engineering authorities for these are ideal for servicing and help create a true sense of "community".


By stating this you are horribly mistaken, it is infact the planners NOT in any way shape or form the engineers that seek narrower grid patterns...
Where did you hear this? and in what city is this happening? Because I can tell you for a fact it is not happening at our City Hall, and as a matter of fact its Engineers that are the problem in most municipalities- they just don’t see the street as anything more that carrying capacity. They rather not do grid street because they don’t like multiple accesses on arterial roads, they don’t even like window streets..

Tolosulode- just out of curiosity what's your career background?
And I think that we will just have to agree to disagree because this could go on for a long time.. I do suggest that you and everyone here go out to one of the Sean Galloway's (Our City's Urban Designer) presentations, maybe to understand better what urban design really is all about and how were using it to make London a better place to live.

[tolosulode]

By stating this you are horribly mistaken, it is infact the planners NOT in any way shape or form the engineers that seek narrower grid patterns...
Where did you hear this? and in what city is this happening? Because I can tell you for a fact it is not happening at our City Hall, and as a matter of fact its Engineers that are the problem in most municipalities- they just don’t see the street as anything more that carrying capacity. They rather not do grid street because they don’t like multiple accesses on arterial roads, they don’t even like window streets..

Tolosulode- just out of curiosity what's your career background?
And I think that we will just have to agree to disagree because this could go on for a long time.. I do suggest that you and everyone here go out to one of the Sean Galloway's (Our City's Urban Designer) presentations, maybe to understand better what urban design really is all about and how were using it to make London a better place to live.

Modern subdivision design by municipal engineers is succinctly described in this text book preview "Residential Land Development Practices By David E. Johnson" found here: http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&id=Er5s0vifwlIC&dq=Residential+Land+Development+Practices++By+David+E.+Johnson&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=V3iABlSjAC&sig=MguIhteFTxDDPwfuqiSO5_PPm5U&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP1,M1
This text is published by the American Society of Civil Engineers.

Please find that in the index is a reference on page 55 to "connectivity" but not yet available for preview. This has to do with the concept of making the city "walkable".
On pages 75 and 87 are references to the benefits of narrower roadways.

The concepts and practices you are advocating in urban planning are not only used by municipal engineers but are also supported by them. Of course, as in all disciplines, there is variability in practices from region to region and perhaps that has been your personal experience but overall, the municipal engineering profession applies technology with a social conscience in order to make urban life safe and economically viable.

On a specific note, multiple access points on arterial and collector roads is an issue with traffic flow (i.e. in its disruption / degradation) and safety and this is best addressed through controlled access (i.e. blind ends). For an example in London, even though not necessarily a pure grid pattern, see the subdivision south of Oxford Street, between Juniper and Laurel Streets (Oakridge ?) and notice how the access to Oxford Street is controlled to allow for the efficient flow of traffic on that artery. Imagine all the roads in this area connected directly to Oxford Street and the chaos in traffic flow that may result from that.

If you have not figured out my profession, then I would suggest not playing the game "What's My Line".

I am sure Sean has become a very capable and innovative planner and some day I will attend one of his lectures.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

I’m not here to fight about the issue of London’s roads, that’s not the reason I joined.. I simply want to be part of the planning/design discussions’ that go on in this forum as this topic is of interest to me..

Urban Planners/Designer will forever disagree with Engineers and vise-versa for some reason we just can't get along..

One thing is for sure we see streets in totally different ways
Urban Planners/Designers view of a street is - A streetscape created not only for the car but also for the pedestrian, the cyclist, and public transit, with built form to its lot lines, with wide sidewalks, with trees and landscaping in the boulevards, on-street parking, ect..

We classify streets as Mainstreets, Grand Boulevards, Avenues, Parkways, and Local Streets
Check out
http://www.calthorpe.com/clippings/UrbanNet1216.pdf

An Engineers view of a street is- What capacity do we want it= how many lanes it will be = how many access points we will allow
no real care about what they will look like...

Engineers classify streets as Arterial, primary/secondary collector, local-

[tolosulode]

I’m not here to fight about the issue of London’s roads, that’s not the reason I joined.. I simply want to be part of the planning/design discussions’ that go on in this forum as this topic is of interest to me..

Urban Planners/Designer will forever disagree with Engineers and vise-versa for some reason we just can't get along..

One thing is for sure we see streets in totally different ways
Urban Planners/Designers view of a street is - A streetscape created not only for the car but also for the pedestrian, the cyclist, and public transit, with built form to its lot lines, with wide sidewalks, with trees and landscaping in the boulevards, on-street parking, ect..

We classify streets as Mainstreets, Grand Boulevards, Avenues, Parkways, and Local Streets
Check out
http://www.calthorpe.com/clippings/UrbanNet1216.pdf

An Engineers view of a street is- What capacity do we want it= how many lanes it will be = how many access points we will allow
no real care about what they will look like...

Engineers classify streets as Arterial, primary/secondary collector, local-
All of this brings me back to original point of questioning your professors. Your experience is, without prejudice nor malice, too limited at this stage of your career (considering that you are still in school) for you to have any meaningful working relationship with any municipal engineering department or consulting engineering company. To whitewash municipal engineers with such a broad brush surely does not come from your personal experiences for these must be few at this stage in your life. This attitude has undoubtedly been given to you by your planning professors and thus the notion of brainwashing is undeniably true. Time spent in the field (and I mean time as in several decades, not months) will enlighten you. Your professors are far off base and it is highly unethical for them to disparage any other profession in such a manner. An engineers code of ethical and professional conduct does not allow for such behaviour and I know that the same applies to professional planners. Shame on them.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Shame on YOU for shaming people you have never met!
And as i said before STOP ASSUMING things.. this seems to be bad quality of yours.. My professors have not ever said anything bad about engineers, infact untill my past few work terms have I come to realize this myself, and with talking to other Urban Planners/Designers (who by the way have at least few dacades of experience) from other Ontario Municipalities I know its very hard to get Municipal Engineers to change.. Im not saying that those who work for consultant firm are the same, because I have no experience with them.

[LondnPlanr]

Shame on YOU for shaming people you have never met!
And as i said before STOP ASSUMING things.. this seems to be bad quality of yours.. My professors have not ever said anything bad about engineers, infact untill my work past few work terms have I come to realize this myself, and with talking to other Urban Planners/Designers (who by the way have at least few dacades of experience) from other Ontario Municipalities I know its very hard to get Municipal Engineers to change.. Im not saying that those who work for consultant firm are the same, because I have no experience with them.

Welcome to the forum.

First, take off your 'Galloway' hat, and listen to what others in this forum are telling you. I understand what all of your ideas are, and your passion is terrific, but working in the field is a whole new ball game.

Work for a private developer first, and then walk into a meeting and try to convince them that building a rear lane is a good idea, or that eliminating cul-de-sacs is a good idea. You will get laughed out of the room; trust me on that one.

It's not about diving head first into all of Mr. Galloway's ideas. In London in particular, it is going to be about creating a 'new' London one step at a time. Not one developer, and I know this for fact, is going to step up to the plate and create London's 'first' New Urbanist community from scratch. It's going to take baby-steps for any of that to happen, and I regret to inform you that even the baby-steps haven't been taken yet. Yes, there are a few places in town that boast window streets, but that's about it... seriously.

And in regards to your discussion regarding the size of local roads, ie. narrow streets, etc., I know that the struggle in London lies completely at the feet of City Hall engineers. I also know for a fact that the standard of 20m for a local road has only recently been allowed to be taken back to, *gasp*, 18.5m in some areas. Remember, ROW's are not just for pedestrians, vehicles, and bicycles; they are for underground services, as well. I don't have enough time to get into the nuts and bolts of it, but let me tell you, getting a road standard reduced in London takes a lot longer than you think.

Sorry for the scratch-ad-hoc-iness of this post, but I'm at work, and just had to respond to this stirring debate/argument.

[Blitz]

Work for a private developer first, and then walk into a meeting and try to convince them that building a rear lane is a good idea, or that eliminating cul-de-sacs is a good idea. You will get laughed out of the room; trust me on that one.

Why are cul-de-sacs so common in London? There is a massive new subdivision currently under construction in Windsor that conforms to that city's grid system (almost the whole city is a grid and Windsor has little traffic congestion). It's not new urbanism, it's simply building roads on a grid. If this is done elsewhere, why not in London?

I've lived in both cities for several years each and London has horrible traffic congestion for its size that probably has something to do with the way new subdivisions are built. It seems like when you only have a few main roads then those roads will obviously become clogged whereas a grid system spreads the traffic out a bit more.

[oxpark]

Ah yes, to be young and idealistic - I remember those days. I also remember starting my planning career and realizing that if I was to keep those ideals and positions, I'd no longer have a job, at least not in private practice with a consulting firm or land development company. To a certain degree, you can get away with a significant amount of business naivete working in a municipal environment, as many of the planners and engineers at 300 Dufferin do.

To JrUrbanDesigner, try to start your career in a municipal environment to get a good grasp of the planning approvals/political process and then get into private practice. If you don't want to develop a broad knowledge base, just stay with the municipality. I actually agree with many of your comments (most of which are true in theory) but if you think you can significantly change how developers operate in London, you will be disappointed.

[manny_santos]

I've lived in both cities for several years each and London has horrible traffic congestion for its size that probably has something to do with the way new subdivisions are built. It seems like when you only have a few main roads then those roads will obviously become clogged whereas a grid system spreads the traffic out a bit more.

The one advantage of building subdivisions the way London developers have over the past 50 years is less traffic cutting through the subdivisions, making streets safer for pedestrians and neighbourhoods quieter for those who live there. You don't see people cutting through Oakridge Acres en masse, because it is quite literally a maze to get from Oxford to Riverside through that area.

Now, JrUrbanDesigner, I may not agree with your ideals, but don't be discouraged by the long-established attitudes of developers. It is visionaries like yourself who are the long-term catalysts for positive change. Perhaps we won't know if those changes will benefit London until they are tried in new areas. Have you seen the plans for the new neighbourhood around Commissioners and Hamilton Roads? It is quite different from what has traditionally been built in London, with greater integration of natural features and living spaces, and it was designed to make local commercial establishments much easier to walk to than most areas where you have to drive several kilometres to get to a grocery store. It even includes the city's first roundabout at a major intersection, at Commissioners and Hamilton. I was at the planning committee meeting this was presented at in late 2007, and Josh Hurwitz was there supporting it.

[LondnPlanr]

Why are cul-de-sacs so common in London?

Two words: Premium Lots.

$$$$$

That's it.

[MolsonExport]

For Gawd's sake, London has only 2 complete East-West and North-South roads:

East-West: Fanshawe Park Road and Oxford
North-South: Wonderland and Highbury.

That's it. Everything else does not go through all the way.

[QuantumLeap]

Well folks, its nice to have such a vibrant discussion going - though its getting mighty hard to follow! Welcome, Junior, you have gotten yourself in quite a mess!

I have moved to Toronto at least temporarily, but I'm still following the forum. That said, I won't be moving back to London until the Galloways, Flemings and Bryants of London are taken seriously. These are people who understand the potential for new development to have architectural merit, quality relationships with public space, and environmental credentials. This is where all the big, important places in the world are moving to. Yes, London has some serious challenges, though it offers some major opportunities. For example, I think we are tremendously lucky NOT to have an expressway through the middle of the city - have you ever seen the blight along these roads in most American cities!?. As for the challenges, there is the Fact of the city as it now is- its density, road layouts, architectural styles. Development in the future will have to respect that framework, and work within it. We have to maintain what we have, until an opportunity presents itself for workable change. But that doesn't mean that how we build now can't be a radical departure from the sprawl etc that we have now. What I object to London these days is not what it is- it can't help that- but the persistent resistance to changing where its going. I am disappointed to see that some forummers are defending the bleak future of magnifying the mistakes of the past, but very glad to see that some of you are advocating bold new routes.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Well folks, its nice to have such a vibrant discussion going - though its getting mighty hard to follow! Welcome, Junior, you have gotten yourself in quite a mess!

I guess my mess did create a pretty good discussion! :)

Thank you to those who have said kind words and support what I believe in. Like I said before I finally decided to be part of this forum and not just sit on the side lines, but I'm definitely not here to make enemies! Quite the opposite actually, I think the composition of this group is great and maybe there’s someway for us to get together and form a formal group to be able to be a unified voice on certain planning/urban design issues, together we may make a bigger impact then if we fight on our own!

And for the record I think that arterials should have 2 lanes of traffic each way, Manny all the road sections you named like:

Wonderland between Gainsborough and Fanshawe Park Road
Oxford between Hyde Park and Sanitorium
Commissioners between Wonderland and Viscount
Hyde Park between Oxford and Fanshawe Park

Should be widened by one lane each way, but I don’t think we should go forward and add a third lane of traffic going each way!

I think London has some great potential and think it could become a great city it just needs some help, some innovative thinkers and people who follow through with ideas. Mr. Galloway and Mr. Fleming (among others in the planning department) are great individuals who have great ideas and ways to implement them. But you have to remember they are only city staff and its the community (that’s us :yes: ) who need to show support for these ideas in order for councillors to see that they are important and that these innovative planning practices are what Londoners want, to be able to make a better London for EVERYONE!!!


Here’s some news that I don’t think I read on this forum yet (unless I missed it :shrug: )

Southside Group is going ahead with phase 2, of what I think has to be one the worst big box developments in London(from a design point of view), on the Southwest side of Wonderland and Southdale .. It looks like there are plans for one building set back as far as the HomeDepot with several planned stores such as Winners, Homesense, Dollarama, Jysk among others
Its unfortunate that we continue to create these giant big box centers with hundreds of parking space fronting the street making it a nightmare for any pedestrians! :koko:


By the way i have added some pictures of the on-going progress at Westmout mall on my blog (http://urbanitydesign.wordpress.com)

[waterloowarrior]

good discussion.... JrUrbanDesigner, I am at a similar position (still doing school with 1 year of work experience so far) and having a work term in the private sector was a great benefit. I found that I learned much more during my private sector work term than the public ones.

On another note, stormwater management is something that needs to be better emphasized better in school

here's an interesting 'manual for streets' from the UK...
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/manforstreets/

[manny_santos]

I guess my mess did create a pretty good discussion! :)

By the way i have added some pictures of the on-going progress at Westmout mall on my blog (http://urbanitydesign.wordpress.com)

oooooh, another local blog...

I haven't been down towards Westmount in some time so it's nice to see some photos of the progress. I totally agree about the transit terminal - I like the one at Masonville, aside from the lack of a sheltered walkway and long walk through the parking lot. It's possible it could be a temporary solution, since the City did have some long-term plan involving BRT and terminals, so something else might be done with the Westmount Mall area as far as that goes.

Glad to hear that piece of garbage at Wellington and Horton is sold - I hope it gets torn down, and I hope whoever bought it didn't pay much more than the cost of the land. I would much rather have seen that go up in flames than the Wick.

[LondnPlanr]

Glad to hear that piece of garbage at Wellington and Horton is sold - I hope it gets torn down, and I hope whoever bought it didn't pay much more than the cost of the land. I would much rather have seen that go up in flames than the Wick.

The neighbouring Salvation Army Centre of Hope purchased the 'offensive' property at the corner of Wellington and Horton.

Be careful what you wish for, however, as these buildings will be torn down and used as *gasp* surface parking... for now.

[MolsonExport]

By the way i have added some pictures of the on-going progress at Westmout mall on my blog (http://urbanitydesign.wordpress.com)

I enjoyed reading your blog.