L.A. Metro Area Transit: What's Next?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ What exactly is the Next Bus system?

[WesTheAngelino]

^ It's a real time monitoring system for buses. Imagine sitting in your apartment, getting ready to go to work and being able to check online exactly when the next bus is coming to your nearest stop. In effect it cuts out all waiting around at bus stops and removes that fear of "oh god, is this thing ever going to come?"

If I'm not mistaken the MTA has put up electronic signs along some rapid bus routes (Wilshire and the Orange line I think) that basically do the same thing.

[J Church]

I'm fortunate to live along one of the lines in SF's pilot program. I use it for the stop nearest my house; go to the bookmarked web page and boom--takes me 10 seconds to find out I've got another 10 minutes before I have to leave.

Of course it *really* rocks when you can get the information over your mobile device.

[fflint]

^The 22 Fillmore. I use the "next bus" update as well--it's great.

[Damien]

Making the system accessible in a typical $50 pre-paid phone with internet capability will go a LONG way toward improving the rider's experience. I bet they're already doing it in most the affluent Asian cities in South Korea and Japan.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ It's a real time monitoring system for buses. Imagine sitting in your apartment, getting ready to go to work and being able to check online exactly when the next bus is coming to your nearest stop. In effect it cuts out all waiting around at bus stops and removes that fear of "oh god, is this thing ever going to come?"

If I'm not mistaken the MTA has put up electronic signs along some rapid bus routes (Wilshire and the Orange line I think) that basically do the same thing.


I take the bus ALL THE TIME and to be quite honest, sometimes I really hate it for that very reason. Waiting FOREVER and not knowing when the next bus will come. You constantly look toward the direction the bus will be coming. Looking again and again for that electronic header on top of the bus.

I would probably have NO problem taking the bus in LA if there was this "Next Bus System!" Are there any plans to have this system here in LA??? :yes:

[Damien]

There has to be some type of dual sensor system in place. How else would the announcement system know when to announce the next stop?

I'd also like to see the screens used to show real-time transit maps, so when people get off the bus at a transit intersection they know how long they'll have to wait.

[ferneynism2]

It would drive me nuts to have to sit and wait for the next bus with no clue as when it would arrive. I would most likely go psycho today if I had to wait for than 3 minutes for the next bus. Sorry, just bad flash backs of my past RTD days on the 420 line.....:hell:

[WesTheAngelino]

I take the bus ALL THE TIME and to be quite honest, sometimes I really hate it for that very reason. Waiting FOREVER and not knowing when the next bus will come. You constantly look toward the direction the bus will be coming. Looking again and again for that electronic header on top of the bus.

I would probably have NO problem taking the bus in LA if there was this "Next Bus System!" Are there any plans to have this system here in LA??? :yes:

I feel your pain. As I may have mentioned before, I rode the bus for four yrs while I was at SC. Now I have a car and havent riden the bus or even the rail for quite sometime. Hopefully that will change since I recently moved 3 blocks from the blue line downtown.

The worst is at night when you're on one side of the street and the last bus starts passing you by on the opposite side

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Reeeeally? 3 blocks from 7th/Metro?

[ChrisLA]

MORE GOOD NEWS!
I'm hoping they will have 24hr service like the freeway express bus. I would use it to visit my sister in Rancho Cucamonga. They would have to pick me up in Montclair but thats not all that far from their home. I would use the Metrolink but it stops running too early to get home since I don't always want to spend the night at their house.



Silver Streak to Start Inland Service in March

Foothill Transit will begin its version of Metro Rapid-style bus service to the San Gabriel and Pomona valleys in March, the transit provider announced earlier this month. Touted in a Foothill Transit release as "mimicking the efficiency and speed of light rail" between Montclair and Downtown, Silver Streak service will employ 60-foot articulated buses whose route includes only about 5% surface streets. Stops along the 10 Freeway - well connected to local bus routes - will include the TransCenters in Montclair and Pomona, The Plaza at West Covina, El Monte Station, Cal State L.A., County + USC Medical Center, Union Station and Grand Avenue and Olympic Boulevard in Downtown. The buses will be equipped with a GPS vehicle locating system and security cameras. Foothill Transit officials also plan to outfit Silver Streak bus stops with arrival displays. The one-way base fare will be $2, with a 31-day pass going for $80. More information is available at foothilltransit.org.

[WesTheAngelino]

^ Reeeeally? 3 blocks from 7th/Metro?


Hahahaha.....try 3 blocks from Washington/Grand. ~_^ Now THAT'S Gentrification!

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Hahahaha.....try 3 blocks from Washington/Grand. ~_^ Now THAT'S Gentrification!

oh u poor thing... :no:

[Art]

Hahahaha.....try 3 blocks from Washington/Grand. ~_^ Now THAT'S Gentrification!

Dont let the experience of being an "urban pioneer" jade you into a republican. Remember, most of the dysfunction you experience is a REACTION to environmental factors. Anyways, kudos.:)

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Dont let the experience of being an "urban pioneer" jade you into a republican.


Too late... :whip:homeless

[Art]

^
I am a very humane compassionate and PC(when it is necessarry) person who works in the ugliest parts of LA and understands the social aspects of much of our city's problems. That being said I know the bulk of Downtown/skid row's homeless are either mentally deranged or straight up scumbags. the same can be said for much of LA county.

Now, "hood bullshit" is more of what I meant. It may be utterly annoying and appalling, I prefer to look at/treat the instigators of this nonsense like a middle school kid or mentally disabled person. My point was please dont let the 5% asshole segment let you overgeneralize(or negatively connote, hate) the entire community. I am uber compassionate and understanding about the community I was born and raised in but the dysfunction gets to me so bad I must distance myself from it for short periods of time. If I get fed up with the shit anyone can, did I mention I have not tripped once while supervising 14 loud street kids from Compton the past 2 months? That takes nerves of steel.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I get what you're saying and I commend you for being so dedicated to an issue that is something you know about first hand.

But I have a dream that LA will one day be walkable. The definition of LA is gonna "shrink" to include pretty much Downtown LA area and Wilshire Blvd (because of that subway). And FINALLY, the struggle to give people a chance to live without a car in LA is completely possible (because the definition of LA will change...people living in West Covina, Torrance, etc. will not be considered "L-A--L-A" anymore). So Downtown LA is CRITICAL in that formula. LA CANNOT become a real city in our lifetimes without a thriving Downtown LA.

But we have all watched Downtown LA development become impeded by this homeless issue. And I know that most of them on Skid Row, for some reason or another, are mentally fucked up. Why? I don't know. I would like to be enlightened about that. But in the meantime, they have become an obstacle in the way of my unrealistic dreams. Therefore, as time goes on, and there is LITTLE to NO IMPROVEMENT, and all I get every day and night are dirty/stinky/disgusting homeless people accosting and begging me for money everywhere I walk. It's not funny anymore. They're not going to leave without a reason to. And there is nothing I want more than to get them out of here.

I would support any initiative to clean Skid Row up. Sooner the better.

[WesTheAngelino]

Wow, interesting convo I started, Art n LAB.

Just to clarify: I live in the Decapo Building, an art deco beauty right on the corner of Washington and Main.

In response to "oh you poor thing", I would say yes only because of the lack of amenities right next to me. I would kill for a 7-11, but all I have is a shady overpriced market and a hole in the wall burrito joint on the first floor of the building. Luckily, I'm a five minute or less drive from a lot of retail on Washington and near SC, but most of that is fast-food garbage. What really bothers me is that the closest decent groceries are at SC, the nearest Home Depot is at Wilshire/Union, and the nearest Target is way the hell on La Cienega and Rodeo Rd. In fact much of the surrounding blocks are total deadzones of big parking lots and wholesale distribution/some storefront wholesale.

As for the homeless: There really aren't a lot in my immediate blocks. most of the skid row action is north and east of me. There pretty much is NO ONE walking around at night near my building.

As for "hood shit" I really haven't experienced any yet. I was crossing the wash/main intersection one night, carrying my bag and two guys coming the opposite direction jokingly go "hey, check yo self, gimme dat bag". But obviously they were not dangerous and just trying to get some jollies by scaring the white boy. Nothing new to me, I was always much more afraid back in my hometown of Jackson, Mississippi or even close to USC. The only thing that really worries me is something happening to my car which I park on the street (a lot of people who live where i live do that too though).

Don't worry, I'm not going to become a Republican, although I am voting for Schwarzenegger this year (thanks a lot, Angelides)

[Art]

NOOO, Wes, just dont vote for either candidate. I cannot support a governor who balances the budget on students'/infrastructure's back rahter than the rich folks making over $100k.

Funny, I know and love the building you are living in, and actually was going to help my real estate buddies buy it(which they didnt). Just for your info the hoods south of the new highschool are really bad and ugly, PFlats and Ghetto Boys go at it alot around there. But that is an excellent location and commend you for having the balls to move there.

[WesTheAngelino]

NOOO, Wes, just dont vote for either candidate. I cannot support a governor who balances the budget on students'/infrastructure's back rahter than the rich folks making over $100k.

Funny, I know and love the building you are living in, and actually was going to help my real estate buddies buy it(which they didnt). Just for your info the hoods south of the new highschool are really bad and ugly, PFlats and Ghetto Boys go at it alot around there. But that is an excellent location and commend you for having the balls to move there.


Ha, I can't beleive that didn't dawn on me....voting for neither. I'm just so angry at most of the Democratic Party right now, but that still doesn't justify voting for a hack like Arnold I suppose. I'll just vote for all the other candidates and the bond measures, one of which I'm working on (prop 84 the water bond)

[Art]

Im sick of democraps too, theyre just republicons in sheeps clothing.

[WesTheAngelino]

Im sick of democraps too, theyre just republicons in sheeps clothing.


I'm mostly sick of the CA Dem Party because they are crippled by unions.

Art, I'm curious, what's your take on Antonio's LAUSD takeover? Is there not a thread about that in here?

[Wright Concept]

Ha, I can't beleive that didn't dawn on me....voting for neither. I'm just so angry at most of the Democratic Party right now, but that still doesn't justify voting for a hack like Arnold I suppose. I'll just vote for all the other candidates and the bond measures, one of which I'm working on (prop 84 the water bond)


No kidding, that's what I did in the primary election just voted on the local issues and races and I will do it again in the general election. I have no motivation to vote for the Governor.

But hey, I guess we are showing them by not voting, dwindling the numbers just so the core voters, the same pricks get the same people in office. Oh well, I guess that's democracy in action. :notacrook:

[Wright Concept]

MTA plans to redraw transit map
Proposal aims to quicken travel, cut redundant lines
BY RACHEL URANGA, Staff Writer
LA Daily News

Three days a week, Joaquina de Paz tucks her tattered black Bible in her purse and sets off from Bell for her job as a housekeeper in the Encino Hills - a three-hour commute that takes her on two rail lines and two buses.

It takes at least two hours for Hilda Medina to make the trip from East L.A. to Woodland Hills - but only if each of the three buses she rides is on time.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has spent $1 billion over the past decade to ensure that people like de Paz and Medina - poor, immigrant, transit-dependent - are not stranded for hours waiting for a bus or, once aboard, forced to fight for a seat.

Under a federal consent decree imposed in 1996 and due to expire next month, the MTA has added more than 2,000 buses and implemented other service improvements at a cost it estimates at $1.2 billion.

However, in cobbling together a transit system across its 1,433-square-mile service area, the agency has been unable to make the trips faster for riders like de Paz and Medina.

The $3 billion-a-year agency hopes to change that beginning in December with a long-awaited plan dubbed Metro Connections, which officials predict will save the MTA millions of dollars and create a more efficient system, but critics fear will inconvenience regular riders.

And while officials also predict it will attract more riders by creating a system dictated by people's travel needs rather than the layout of the streets, opponents say it will actually reduce service.

"We are not just trying to save money. We are trying to make a better system," said Rod Goldman, the MTA's deputy executive officer of operations. "We are not trying to just go in and eliminate routes or service frequency. A big part of this is making the system move faster."

While all of the proposed changes - which will be rolled out through 2008 - have not been made public, the MTA has announced it hopes to eliminate several redundant bus routes and shorten those that exceed 20 miles. Officials say shorter routes will make it less likely that buses will get stuck in traffic.

In the San Fernando Valley, for instance, that means that Route 94 - a 30-mile line down San Fernando Road from Olive View-UCLA Medical Center to downtown - would be divided into two segments and the route itself shortened.

But critics complain that fewer bus routes and fewer service hours will have a huge, negative impact on those who rely on public transportation.

"This is a big hit," said Manuel Criollo, lead organizer for the Bus Riders Union, the advocacy group whose lawsuit spawned the 1996 consent decree.

"We didn't spend 10 years fighting for more service to turn around six months after the consent decree ends ... only to lose what we had fought for."

Phillip Figatner, who takes the 94 bus from Bob Hope Airport in Burbank to his job at an aircraft parts plant in Sylmar, said the change proposed to start in December would increase his cost and travel time.

His round trip currently takes about 90 minutes and costs $2.50 a day. Under the proposal, he'll have to buy a $3 day pass because he'll have to take two buses on each leg of his commute.

"I get the feeling that these people know how to spell `bus' but I don't think they ride the darn thing," Figatner said. "Whether it's a lot or not, what you are doing is forcing people to pay more."

Like most transit systems, the MTA operates on a grid, with buses crisscrossing along parallel and perpendicular streets. That means that some routes are jammed, while others run with just one or two passengers.

And whether a bus is full or empty, the overhead costs - gas, maintenance and salaries - are the same.

That conundrum is at the heart of Metro Connections.

Agency planners believe that eliminating redundant routes or those with low usage will save money. And adding shorter, more manageable routes that take riders directly to major destinations will also attract customers.

"We are trying to achieve two things at the same time: improve the system for the users and ... achieving efficiencies," said Adi Arieli, an MTA consultant.

"The idea was, why don't we take a look and see the paths where the people want to travel even if they are not going to be down the street."

Among the changes, planners have suggested adding circulator routes, with buses running from transit hubs - such as the North Hollywood Metro station - to hospitals and other major destinations. The agency is also looking at a commuter express service like the one the city operates along the freeway.

The MTA hopes to launch the first phase of Metro Connections in December, with most of the changes coming next year.

No decisions can be finalized, however, until public hearings are held. Critics complain that the hearings so far have failed to attract the Spanish-speaking, transit-dependent riders who are the bulk of riders.

Transit advocates fear that officials won't hear from riders who will have to transfer more often.

"I get concerned whether or not asking people to transfer more may discourage them from riding the system," said Coby King, a member of the MTA governance council representing the San Fernando Valley.

"They are changing it from just a grid that's easy to understand, but perhaps not as efficient, to a hub-spoke system that is efficient but may be confusing unless we do a good job at public education."

Hub and spoke

rachel.uranga@dailynews.com

(818) 713-3741

[WesTheAngelino]

WOW

This is BULLSHIT.

Back in 04 I was working as a door to door canvasser for the DNC in Westwood. My bus commute from SC to there involved taking the vermont bus to pico then an MTA bus to Pico-Rimpau where I would have to transfer to the Big Blue. Almost every person who got off the MTA bus got onto the Big Blue. Likely folks from East Los going to clean yuppie homes and restaurant tables in West LA and Santa Monica.

This is really going to make transit more difficult for the vast majority of riders and is just a way for the MTA to cut corners.

[Wright Concept]

So far in the intial plans for the Westside doesn't seem to be many changes. Downtown on the other hand they still working the kinks out.

[Wright Concept]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-councilqa25sep25,1,342761.story?coll=la-headlines-california

Q&A / CITY GOVERNMENT
L.A. Will Need More on Board to Bring Back Streetcars
By Steve Hymon
Times Staff Writer

September 25, 2006

If reader email is any indication, Los Angeles is developing a case of streetcar envy.

A few weeks ago, the Community Redevelopment Agency released a study concluding that it's feasible to have a downtown streetcar.

Whew. Who knew that kind of technology existed?

In the three weeks since the release, reader e-mail has been running about 4 to 1 in favor of bringing the streetcars back.

The idea, however, has received a lukewarm response in City Hall. The mayor's office gave the study a "no comment," the kind of reply usually reserved for inquiries about naughty interns.

Of course, if Los Angeles needs any inspiration, it can look north to San Francisco, which has had two rebuilt streetcar lines in operation since 1995 and 2000, respectively.

One travels right up the gut of downtown on Market Street — sharing the road with traffic — while the other travels in a median along the Embarcadero, connecting the city's refurbished Ferry Building with Fisherman's Wharf.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Question: So what is city transportation chief Gloria Jeff saying about the streetcars?

Answer: Not much.

"I know people want them and it's a good suggestion," Jeff said Thursday. "But we're still moving to purchase more buses and improve the DASH system."

Jeff also said that she needed to learn more about what is being proposed and whether downtown streetcars would, in fact, help people get around town.

"Come back and see me in 60 days and I'll be more intelligent on this," she added.

Done. Provided that editors do not cave in to my request to write stories about urban planning in small Swiss ski villages, Jeff can expect her phone to ring at 9:01 a.m. on Nov. 20.

In related news, Councilwoman Wendy Greuel said she understands that people would like the idea to be debated publicly. And she said she's willing to hold a hearing on the issue in the transportation committee that she chairs.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Q: Any other thoughts on the streetcar study?

A: Not everyone is in love with the idea.

"I think it's gimmicky," said Ben Reznik, a prominent land-use attorney in Los Angeles. "To me it's not serious transportation planning. I don't like the idea that it's fixed — you're locked into that route and those tracks."

Among Reznik's clients are developer Geoff Palmer, who has built hundreds of apartments downtown, although most of them are on the west side of the 110 Freeway and not near any of the possible routes that the redevelopment agency has proposed for streetcar service.

That said, Reznik isn't alone in thinking that the streetcar idea is based too much on nostalgia. One big issue he raises is that the trolleys won't be very fast — a trip from Union Station to the Convention Center could take 30 minutes.

"This isn't about mobility; it's about atmosphere and fun and creating a streetscape," Reznik said. "If we want to move people around downtown and make it fun, bring in double-decker buses."

We'll be tracking the issue in this space in the coming months, years and — this being Los Angeles — probably decades.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Reznik has a point. The focus here now should really be the Downtown Connector I'm thinking if we want speed, which I'm sure most of us all want. However, streetcars in Portland have increased value for real estate adjacent to their stations and have spawned more development (density) than without a street car station. But then again, I remember riding the F line down Market to the Castro wasn't exactly my favorite thing to do. It was slow and clunky and I really just wanted to get to Castro ASAP! The novelty wore off pretty quickly (maybe because I didn't really have any sentimental attachment to SF either). I thought that my CAL ID card worked on the "F line" street car since we had free bus service on the F Line across the Bay Bridge! haha

Anyway, we should also keep in mind that having a diverse transportation system can really add something to our downtown atmosphere, esp. down a street like Broadway. A slower street car down Broadway could be really fun for tourists and Angelenos alike (since most Angelenos will probably consider their own downtown a foreign place anyway). We would probably have a modern street car similar to Portland I'm thinking with historic replicas operating on weekends (that's what they do in Portland).

[Wright Concept]

^ Reznik has a point. The focus here now should really be the Downtown Connector I'm thinking if we want speed, which I'm sure most of us all want. However, streetcars in Portland have increased value for real estate adjacent to their stations and have spawned more development (density) than without a street car station. But then again, I remember riding the F line down Market to the Castro wasn't exactly my favorite thing to do. It was slow and clunky and I really just wanted to get to Castro ASAP! The novelty wore off pretty quickly (maybe because I didn't really have any sentimental attachment to SF either). I thought that my CAL ID card worked on the "F line" street car since we had free bus service on the F Line across the Bay Bridge! haha

Anyway, we should also keep in mind that having a diverse transportation system can really add something to our downtown atmosphere, esp. down a street like Broadway. A slower street car down Broadway could be really fun for tourists and Angelenos alike (since most Angelenos will probably consider their own downtown a foreign place anyway). We would probably have a modern street car similar to Portland I'm thinking with historic replicas operating on weekends (that's what they do in Portland).

That is very true and a Streetcar set-up that is being proposed should be a simple and as few turns as possible to increase speed and make it attractive, Much like the Portland Model. I originally thought a loop through in the heart of Downtown would work if this was conceived as it originally came into my mind as part of a bigger system where other shorter branches could feed into it with service 2.0 miles away from the core loop would have access to it.

But now looking at the study, a line straight down Broadway from the Chinatown Gold Line Station to Pico Blvd. Then westbound on Pico and then turn at Convention Center in front of Lindsay Plaza and turn that into a "station". The reverse trip would utilize 12th Street going east. This way they can reduce costs for needing a maintenance facility, in essence they'll have one with the Gold Line storage yard and can transform the vacant parcels around the Gold Line station. And still opens the potential for a network of lines; Like one down Wilshire Blvd/7th St. from MacArthur Park to Fashion District, Glendale Blvd/1st/2nd St. from Echo Park to Artist District and another down Grand Ave from Music Center down to Convention Center.

[Wright Concept]

http://www.metro.net/news_info/press/metro_158.htm#TopOfPage

At-grade portion work for the Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension increases along the six-mile light rail project alignment

Construction crews for the Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension construction project will begin installation of new manholes, sanitary sewer lines and laterals at the south side of First Street between Lorena and Indiana streets Monday, Sep. 25.

The scheduled work will be Monday to Friday from 7 a.m. to 6 pm. for the next three months. This is part of the preparation for the at-grade portion of the six-mile light rail project to the Eastside.

Motorists and residents should be aware of reduction on traffic lanes through the work area and also parking restrictions on the south side of First Street. However, pedestrian access will be maintained with accessibility to homes and businesses through coordination with the Metro contractor.

The Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension, which will feature eight stations, (two underground,) will span six miles from Union Station in downtown Los Angeles via the Arts District/Little Tokyo and Boyle Heights to Atlantic/Pomona Boulevards in East Los Angeles. It is forecasted to open in late 2009.

For information on Eastside construction activity, call Metro Community Relations at (213) 922-9560.

[citywatch]

CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK
Finally, On the Right Track

Maybe it's time to redefine exactly what cost-efficiency means in a city such as Los Angeles.

By Christopher Hawthorne, Times Staff Writer
September 27, 2006

Building a subway line along Wilshire Boulevard to the beach, an idea officially revived last week when the House of Representatives voted to repeal a 20-year-old tunneling ban here, is an example of urban planning done backward: Watch as population and job growth push an urban corridor in the direction of Tokyo-like density. Then ram an underground train route right through it. And pay dearly, in dollars and political capital, for the privilege.

The plan remains an exceedingly tough sell. In comparison with the massive cost and disruption that would come with digging new tunnels along Wilshire, above-ground transit projects — the planned Gold Line extension eastward through the San Gabriel Valley, for example, or the Exposition Line through Culver City — will always appear more cost-efficient.nBut maybe it's time to redefine exactly what cost-efficiency means in a city such as Los Angeles. If we had managed to get past hidden pockets of methane and pointed NIMBYism and extended the Red Line along Wilshire in the 1990s, after all, it would now look like the biggest bargain in Southern California transit history. Measured over time, the political expediency Los Angeles has always been known for can be awfully expensive in its own right.

And the Wilshire subway — which the MTA renamed the Purple Line last month — promises to do more than ease Westside gridlock and provide a framework for inevitable growth. In a way unique among transit projects being considered, it could trace a new urban blueprint here, recasting the old image of Wilshire as a linear downtown for an age of density and knitting the idea of Los Angeles — the city, not the collection of retail centers and red carpets — back together. It could turn a neon-bright symbol of L.A.'s love affair with the private car into the best-used transit corridor in Southern California: the strip as civic spine.

It would also connect, in the space of a single subway ride, some of the city's most important cultural institutions, quirkiest icons and most recognizable landmarks. From east to west, this appealing jumble includes Skidmore, Owings and Merrill's One Wilshire building downtown; the former Bullock's Wilshire building; the Wiltern LG theater; Langdon Wilson's Superior Court building (just off Wilshire); the Los Angeles County Museum of Art; and UCLA's Hammer Museum. It ends just above the beach at the statue of Saint Monica, standing with her back to the ocean.

Even the proposed first section of the two-part extension, to the corner of Wilshire and Fairfax, would bring LACMA onto the subway grid — a move that could have a dramatic effect on the museum's centrality in the city's cultural and psychic landscape as architect Renzo Piano works to redesign its campus.

From a practical point of view, of course, the extension, which Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa has championed since his days on the campaign trail, could hardly be more overdue. The Wilshire corridor cuts directly through what transit planners call the most densely populated urban area in the United States that isn't served by either a subway or light rail. But it would also be staggeringly expensive: roughly $350 per mile to drag the subway an additional 13 miles along Wilshire to the beach.

As the extension debate has intensified in recent weeks, it has been remarkable to see how spreading gridlock on the Westside has turned some of the Wilshire subway's most stubborn adversaries into cheerleaders for mass transit. The converts include Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Los Angeles), who sponsored the original tunneling-ban legislation after a 1985 methane explosion in a Ross clothing store before working this summer to reverse it; L.A. County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky, who pushed an anti-subway ballot measure in 1998 but now supports the Purple Line; and Diana Plotkin, president of the Beverly Wilshire Homes Assn., who told The Times she was "terrified" 20 years ago of a subway running through her neighborhood but now says, "We do need a solution to this horrible traffic problem."

Funding for the project — even the first phase to Fairfax, which could cost more than $1 billion — remains very much in doubt. But Villaraigosa's close ties to Sacramento will help in securing state money, and a pair of infrastructure bond measures on the November ballot, Propositions 1A and 1B, could direct several billion dollars to L.A. County for highway and transit construction.

Some opponents of the subway to the sea complain that it makes little sense for Los Angeles because it borrows an ill-fitting notion of dense urbanity from New York and San Francisco, or because it would threaten L.A.'s neighborhood diversity. But development spurred by stations along Wilshire could help highlight distinctions between neighborhoods rather than erase them. Indeed, travel by subway can make those differences more pronounced.

When you're riding underground, even along a single boulevard, Point A becomes distinct from Point B; sections of the city become discrete locations rather than parts of an asphalt continuum. Transit-oriented development around subway stops can further this sense, though the design of projects on land controlled by the MTA — such as the Hollywood and Highland shopping center or the Archeon Group's proposed $160-million condo tower for the intersection of Wilshire and Western — is hardly encouraging along these lines.

Most of us would rarely if ever take the line for its full route. But it would make all the difference to know that we could. With a subway connection to the beach, after all, residents of El Sereno, Koreatown or downtown could reasonably think of themselves as living in the same city as somebody in Brentwood. Without it, those neighborhoods threaten to drift off permanently into their own orbits. And we can start thinking of Monica, facing east from the beach along the proposed course of the subway, as the patron saint of blown opportunities.

[Art]

Goodness Gracious, can someone please get teh message to the Mayor: It is now evident that a large amount of naysayer ammunition is coming from the astronomical price of the wilshire subway. There is nothing you can do as far as "per mile" estimates for this corridor(it must be underground), but one BIG AND EASY way to shut up a lot of people or at least SERIOUSLY decrease the sticker shock/overall price is to ONLY talk about pushing the subway to Westwood/UCLA. That is how far the wilshire subway definitely needs to go at least for now, and it also opens up a new opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone. Those 2 birds being Valleyistas bitching about them being neglected, as well as providing better and comprehensive subway service to the SF valley as well as addressing the 405 with an alternative.

IMHO, this northward 405/ SFvalley line (we had all discussed in various concepts) is much more important than a Wilshire subway west of UCLA, as well as several other redline/HRt extensions like the Whittier and Vermont ridership heavy corridors. As discussed, this valley/405 line will definitely service the most important corridor int he valley- Van Nuys blvd, and can also open up the possibility of a ventura blvd line one day when we crap gold.

Anyways, Villaraigosa could shut up a LOT of people with this minor change of course. Of course he would lose the crappy "subway to the sea" gimmicky line. I have tried to tell several of his aides about this, but all of those slimey little narcissists havent done shit about besides pissing me off with their arrogance(Im just some ignorant idiot who has devoted my life to making LA better).

[Wright Concept]

^ That is what you get when you have Riordan's old crew working there.

But a side note, that is something I've wrote about many times that the Subway should try to emulate the neccesity of other North-South Lines to tie into Wilshire to really get folks to understand it's importance. Connecting the Crenshaw/La Brea corridor at Wilshire/La Brea and the 405 Corridor will help to bring the potential NIMBY's ('coughs' The Valley) to the table to understand why Wilshire is a backbone.

In order to define a backbone you need supporting structure to work with it. And that will come with the connecting North-South Lines at key nodes Wilshire Center with Vermont, Mid-Wilshire at either La Brea or Fairfax, Westwood with the 405 and Santa Monica with Expo

[Damien]

When encountering Valley opposition, I suggest everyone simply state:

It would probably cost almost the same to turn the Purple line northward to the Orange line Van Nuys/Oxnard station as it would to get it to the Santa Monica Sears building.

And even if it is $200-500 million more, that extra money would be far easier to come by than the political capital the Purple line would gain by heading north after serving UCLA.

[bobcat]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot of press about this.

Sept. 26, 2006

Rick Jager/Marc Littman
Exposition Metro Line Construction Authority
Media Relations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

213.922.2707/922-4609
www.BuildExpo.org

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

­

Media Advisory
EXPOSITION METRO LINE CONSTRUCTION AUTHORITY BREAKS GOUND ON L.A.’S NEWEST LIGHT RAIL PROJECT TO SERVE WESTSIDE COMMUTERS

WHAT:

The Exposition Metro Line Construction Authority will join a host of local elected officials including Mayor Villaraigosa, County Supervisors Yvonne Brathwaite Burke, Gloria Molina and Culver City Mayor Gary Silberger for a groundbreaking event to officially mark the beginning of construction on the 8.5-mile Exposition light rail line. The light rail project, once completed in 2010, will ease travel times between the Westside and downtown Los Angeles. The $640 million project will include eight new stations along the Exposition right-of-way from downtown Los Angeles to Washington/National in Culver City. The Exposition Line will offer faster and more convenient access to many destinations. Whether traveling to work in downtown Los Angeles, exploring the museums in Exposition Park or dining and shopping in Culver City, the Exposition Light Rail Line will get people where they need to go quickly and efficiently.

WHEN:

Friday, September 29, 2006, 9 a.m.

WHERE:

Exposition Boulevard Median (right-of-way) between West Boulevard and Hillcrest Drive (Approximately ¼ mile west of Crenshaw Boulevard) Los Angeles (Thomas Map Book Page 673, D-1)

WHO:

* Supervisor Yvonne Brathwaite Burke, Chair of the Expo Construction Authority
* Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa
* Supervisor Gloria Molina, Metro Board Chair
* Culver City Mayor Gary Silberger
* Rick Thorpe, CEO of the Expo Construction Authority
* Members of the Expo Construction Authority Board of Directors

[bobcat]

MTA to Run Orange Line Busway to Chatsworth
Buoyed by the route's success, the agency will extend the line six miles from Woodland Hills.
By Jean Guccione, Times Staff Writer
September 29, 2006

http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2006-09/25638217.gif

The little transit line that could is about to get bigger.

The Orange Line, the busway between North Hollywood and Woodland Hills that has broken ridership projections since it opened last fall, will be extended six miles to Chatsworth under a plan approved Thursday by the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority board.

The Orange Line carries about 20,000 people a day — three times more than transit officials expected.

Though not the busiest transit line in Los Angeles County — that honor belongs to the Red Line subway — the Orange Line was much cheaper to build than rail. The expansion will cost $135 million and should be completed in 2012.

"We have an opportunity to do something to build on the Orange Line's success," said county Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky, an MTA board member.

The MTA board was under pressure to act quickly or risk losing $98 million in state funds that were dedicated in 2000 to improving north-south traffic flow in the San Fernando Valley. The money must be allocated by Jan. 1, 2009.

Board members voted unanimously to begin work to extend the Orange Line along Canoga Avenue from Warner Center in Woodland Hills to the Chatsworth Metrolink station.

They also instructed MTA staff to study the feasibility of stretching the Orange Line farther north to the 118 Freeway and building a park-and-ride lot there.

In addition, the board began the process of creating bus-only lanes on parts of Van Nuys Boulevard, among other proposed road improvements for that region, as part of its effort to improve public transit in the Valley.

"We are trying to address the north-south issues," said MTA board member Richard Katz, referring to the plan to allocate millions of dollars to road improvements on Lankershim, Van Nuys, Sepulveda and Reseda boulevards.

Transit agency staff recommended against seeking federal funds for those projects because the application process could delay construction, jeopardizing the state money.

Kymberleigh Richards, chairwoman of the MTA's Valley advisory council, questioned the board's spending priorities. Improved bus service on bustling Van Nuys Boulevard should be the agency's top priority in the region, she said.

"Shouldn't we be making those decisions based on where our passengers are already?" Richards asked in an interview before the meeting.

MTA estimates show that bus-only lanes would increase boardings along Van Nuys Boulevard by 14,400 annually while the Orange Line extension would draw 4,000 more boardings per year.

But Yaroslavsky disputed those numbers. He said those estimates were several years old and failed to take into account the Orange Line's success.

Transit officials hope that extending the line will lure more commuters out of their cars and onto buses.

Rick Sagerman used to drive half an hour from his Newbury Park home to his sales job in Burbank. Since his car broke down six weeks ago, he has spent 90 minutes each morning on a train and two buses.

"It's not horrible," he said, as he waited at the Metrolink station in Chatsworth last week, his back to the bright afternoon sun.

With better connections, though, he said, he would do it every day. "If I could get on the Orange Line here [to Burbank] and walk two blocks to my office, I would switch, absolutely."

Since the busway opened last October, ridership has surpassed the agency's 15-year projection, reaching a record 21,828 average weekday boardings in May.

Orange Line riders can now travel from Lankershim Boulevard in North Hollywood to Warner Center in less than an hour; the additional six miles to Chatsworth would take 10 to 14 minutes, according to MTA staff.

More commuters, however, still rely on buses traveling along Van Nuys Boulevard, where MTA officials counted more than 25,000 average daily boardings from January to March, the latest ridership statistics available.

Improving bus service in the Valley has been a priority for years. The MTA has added red Rapid buses, which stop less frequently, along a few major streets.

But riders say traffic congestion slows them down.

"I think it's just the name," said Leticia Meneses, 36, of Van Nuys, referring to the Rapid bus line. "It doesn't go that fast."

As she sat waiting on a Rapid bus, Meneses, a housekeeper in Bel-Air, said she liked the idea of dedicating a traffic lane to buses only. "I think it will help," she said.

Some local merchants, however, oppose removing street parking to make room for bus-only lanes, even if it is during rush hours only.

"Of course, it's going to affect our business," said Mike Shary, who manages the Van Nuys Mart, which sells bright blue and red luggage, white athletic socks and baseball caps. The store is on Van Nuys near Victory Boulevard.

Without street parking, Shary predicted, his customers would shop elsewhere. "They would go to the big shopping centers like Wal-Mart," he said.

Extending the Orange Line along Canoga Avenue would be much more expensive than the proposed street improvements elsewhere.

But MTA staff believe that the extension is more attainable than the smaller projects because the MTA already owns the land.

The staff members expressed concern that disgruntled business owners and city traffic engineers opposed to dedicated bus lanes would hold up the proposal, endangering the state money.

With the Orange Line, "we don't have to remove parking. We don't have to remove any traffic," said Carol Inge, the MTA's chief planning officer.

Chatsworth resident Art Wyckoff said that extending the Orange Line would improve service for him and other transit-dependent residents of the northwest Valley, where bus service is sparse after 8 p.m.

"It would help my social life immensely," said Wyckoff, 52.

[Art]

Grrrr......

Im sorry, I actually have thought abou why they didnt just extend it to the canoga metrolink back when they were constructing the line, but skirting every transit dependant community in the process is absolutely disgraceful! That fucken money for a N/S study was obviously meant to address Van Nuys and Sepulveda, and they are wasting it on rich commuters in the west valley.

Im sooo glad I did not end up working for the MTA(god bless you criminal record and asshole HR employees) becuase their planning ideas are a fucken joke. We now have a fine commuter rail system while the inner city rail system sucks balls, we are now building a valley transit network that exclusively serves the portions of the valley with the lowest transit dependancy, we just built a LRT line to fucken Pasadena and South Pas before the East LA portion even had funding. As long as the mexican and black people who actually use public transit are treated like cattle and pushed to the "back of the bus" for "preferential riders" there will be no such thing as equity and bullshit wackos like the BRU will have a platform to stand on. In all this time are the the big wigs have managed to continue thinking solely in the interests of white wealhty commuters, and not the millions of others in the city, we couldnt have hired at least one person from the barrio with Public transit experiences int he past decade?

Becuase of my bad experiences with the MTA and especially it's brain dead employees, I had initially tailored my strategy from working my way up the organization to coming in with an accomplished/respected carreer later on (as they wont listen to you for shit if you aint somebody). But now I am thinking of giving it up and moving my family out of this 3rd world city, the people in control are still acting like Spanish dons or klansmen, and it was old a long time ago. I wonder when poor people will start another riot?

[SunMonTueWedThuFriSa]

That's too bad, Art. Sounds like you could have made some positive changes at MTA :cheers:

[Wright Concept]

Grrrr......

Im sorry, I actually have thought abou why they didnt just extend it to the canoga metrolink back when they were constructing the line, but skirting every transit dependant community in the process is absolutely disgraceful! That fucken money for a N/S study was obviously meant to address Van Nuys and Sepulveda, and they are wasting it on rich commuters in the west valley.



Actually the Canoga Avenue segment was part of the original SFValley North/South transit plan indicated in the funding. All they were asking for was to start the study since the monies were earmarked for a short period of time and it's use it or lose it.

[Art]

But tampa, VNuys, Sepulveda and another more eastern street were also included int his N/S study. Im just pissed that they are putting a busway in the least trasnit dependant part of the valley, ass-backwards transit planning if you ask me. And to add to the insult, I live along the Em busway which passes through 10 miles of dense transit dependant areas yet has no stops.

[WesTheAngelino]

Noooooo Art! Don't leave this 3rd world city, it needs you.

[Wright Concept]

^It is backwards ass planning. They have to do an EIR on it, all they've done is an Major Investment Study, they're suggesting it, but from the looks of things I doubt Canoga Avenue will get it even with the available right of way because the report will rightfully suggest that they're not gaining any speed or travel savings versus making this a regular bus route with fewer stops. I'm guessing that Van Nuys Blvd and Lankershim will get more of the nods when the report comes to light. But I ain't holding my breath.

[Art]

Thank you for the positive comments you guys, one nice remark compensates for a ton of negativity, gracias. I am blowing off steam, but I am really thinking of moving out of LA when I get my masters. Everything is about connections, the shallow hollywood bullshit permeates everything, people are judgemental hillbillies, and then the aesthetic/equality issue that is going to give me a stroke one day. I applaud those outsiders ballsy enough to addres LA's problems or even live in the neglected parts of the city, but the pain and dysfunction runs deep in my soul. That dysfunction has gotten me jumped, stabbed, shot, and made my life hell for a long time(or as long as I let it) and there is NO fucken way Im going to let my kids deal with it. I want them to grow up in my Chicano community, but not when that means gangs, autocentric aesthetics and all the other fun things that come with the whole package; not when it means every white person looks at you like a felon and every brown person looks at you as competition. Every man in my family has been intelligent, and I have seen all of them either kill that intelligence with football and a wharehouse job they bitch; about or go insane/into drugs to anesthetize the horrible feelings you get from overanalyzing LA's social inequities and the physical results of that inequity. Like I said, my father used his anger to become a Chicano activist and was one of 3 Latinos at Brown university; he came back to LA with a head full of "what's right" and ended up getting strung out on heroin. He now lives on the streets or is locked up, this is just an example of what this bullshit can do to a person. This revelation came to me after watching a PBS special on middle class blacks who have totally dysfunctional families, the recognizing that intelligence is many times a detriment to inner city minorities who learn about equality and social activism. Look at how many panthers and brown berets got strung out on heroin and coke.

I am going to go buy a dozen of the best tamales in America to push LA off of my shit list. Im being a pessimist today.

[J Church]

I am going to go buy a dozen of the best tamales in America to push LA off of my shit list.

:haha:

Sorry, after what came before that cracked me up. Anyway ...

MTA estimates show that bus-only lanes would increase boardings along Van Nuys Boulevard by 14,400 annually while the Orange Line extension would draw 4,000 more boardings per year.

Gosh, tough call.

[edluva]

almost all angelinos deserve to feel this way, art.

[cookiejarvis]

Wow. Art, that paragraph hit me like a ton of bricks.

I might need one of those tamales...

[yeah215]

I don't want to contradict Art, because I think he makes good points. I just want to point out that there is some good to this route. First off, it doesn't only pass through super rich areas, it does go through some areas with high populations of transit-dependent people. But more than that, I think there is something to be said about connecting the orange line to metrolink. That could be very helpful for a lot of people. People will then easily be able to transfer between the two.

[RAlossi]

Maybe it was planned this way, but it's ironic that the Expo Line is officially breaking ground exactly 20 years to the day after the Red Line originally broke ground :0


From www.transit-insider.org

Editors Note: Today marks the 20th anniversary of breaking ground on the Metro Red Line and the beginning of urban rail’s return to Los Angeles. Since then 73 miles of urban fixed guideway and 453 miles of commuter rail have opened to passenger service.

[RAlossi]

Looking at the "visions" that the Expo Line construction authority has for certain streets and boulevards along the right-of-way is kind of interesting. There's some moderate to heavy landscaping changes planned along the Blue/Expo corridor between at least Pico and the tunnel before 7th/Metro.

Here's an example: Pico and Flower Station, looking north currently, http://www.buildexpo.org/images/Expo%20Image%2006%20-%20Existing%20Flower%20Street%20looking%20north.jpg

The artist's rendering of the type of landscaping for that same view: http://www.buildexpo.org/images/Expo%20Image%2007%20-%20Vision%20for%20Flower%20Street%20looking%20north.jpg

Obviously that new building in the drawing is BS, but MTA's record with the Orange Line probably means that they will do a decent job on landscaping. I'm hoping that the Eastside Gold will be landscaped well too.

[POLA]

^that render made my day...

Art, lately, I'm feeling you.

[ReDSPork02]

Work on L.A. Light-Rail Route to Begin
The 8.5-mile Expo Line, set to open in 2010, will run from downtown Los Angeles to Culver City.By Jean Guccione, Times Staff Writer
September 30, 2006

After more than two decades in the planning, construction will begin next week on an 8.5-mile light-rail line between downtown Los Angeles and Culver City.

Transit officials and Westside residents hope that the first phase of the Metro Expo Line, set to open in summer 2010, eventually will continue west to Santa Monica.

"Any of you taking the 10 Freeway going either east or west know is something that we've got to do," Los Angeles County Supervisor Yvonne Brathwaite Burke said during a groundbreaking ceremony Friday.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said major rail construction projects, such as the $640-million Expo Line, will improve the quality of life in the region by easing traffic congestion and bettering air quality.

"The only way we are going to be able to address gridlock is through groundbreakings like these," he said.

The Expo Line will begin underground at 7th Street, continue past Staples Center — where it will go aboveground — and USC, turning onto Exposition Boulevard. The train will follow the route used by Pacific Electric's Santa Monica Air Line, which transported commuters from downtown to Santa Monica from 1914 to 1953.

There will be eight stops: on 23rd Street, Jefferson Boulevard, Vermont Avenue, Western Avenue, Crenshaw Boulevard, La Brea Avenue, La Cienega Boulevard and at Washington and National boulevards. Trains will run every five to 10 minutes.

Transit officials predict that by 2020, more than 43,000 riders a day will use the rail line.

[B]"If just 1% of the people on the Santa Monica Freeway take this line, it will be the most successful [line] in the country," said Presley Burroughs, a longtime Crenshaw-area resident who has helped build support for the transit line over the last 25 years.

But not everyone was celebrating Friday.

Hattie Babb, who has lived on Exposition Boulevard for more than two decades, stood near the festivities, holding a simple black-and-white sign that said: "Mitigate or Compensate."

"I am concerned about safety for the kids and safety for the senior citizens who walk," she said, pointing to Dorsey High School, which is near the route.

Several members of Friends4Expo, a grass-roots group dedicated to building the light-rail line, also did their bit to protest. They wore aqua shirts to the event, in a silent nod to a quashed attempt to designate this project the Aqua Line.

Los Angeles Councilman Bernard C. Parks opposed the idea, opting for a rose-colored line on maps.

After months of debate, the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority declined to pick a color and named it the Expo Line.

[ReDSPork02]

Hattie Babb, Give me a break!!!!!!

[northbay]

^ yea. im ALOT more concerned with senior citizens who DRIVE myself!

[edluva]

"If just 1% of the people on the Santa Monica Freeway take this line, it will be the most successful [line] in the country," said Presley Burroughs,

so if 3,500 people take this line, it will be the most succesful line?

[regboi21]

How come the powers that be arent giving the go ahead for the metro blue line's extension to the gold line honestly i think idea is very important to metro rail system and commuters but antonio the mayor wants a red line to the sea which to me is unessessary at the moment this blue line proposal should studied and built after the highrise projects in downtown la like la live and the grand ave project and the completion of the metro expo line to culver city.Im saying this cause when the expo line is built there might be heavy train traffic at the 7th street station which will make things a little complicated if yall catch my drift. ps i also think the expo line should be elavated structure all the way to culver city so it wont be slow like the gold line to pasidena(sp).

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I'm concerned about the projected transit time from Downtown LA to Culver City -- 30 minutes. When the line is extended to Santa Monica, that will add another 15 minutes to the total transit time. That's 45 minutes!!!

You can get to 3rd St. Promenade by Big Blue Bus from Downtown LA in just 30 minutes. The Expo Line seems like it'll be about the same as the Blue Line in terms of transit time. It WON'T be just a "quick" hop on the train to Santa Monica if it's 45 minutes.

The only difference between the Expo Line and Blue Line is that there will actually be interesting destinations besides just the "end of the line" like the Blue Line in Long Beach. You'll have USC and Culver City and possibly any of the proposed TODs planned for Crenshaw, etc. That'll make the ride somewhat more enjoyable. But my beef with pretty much all light rail lines (ESP. the damn GOLD LINE) is how fucking slow it crawls at some points. I wanna get to where I wanna get to fast and seating on the train when it's crawling gives me pain in my chest.

[Wright Concept]

I'm concerned about the projected transit time from Downtown LA to Culver City -- 30 minutes. When the line is extended to Santa Monica, that will add another 15 minutes to the total transit time. That's 45 minutes!!!

Again the media not getting their facts together it will take 26 minutes end to end. They are basing their time projections off of the old route which would have taken those two unneccessary turns an added a extra half mile.
With the 26 minute figure, then you shave about 5 minutes off of that time, once the line is extended in both directions because most of the extra time is to get the train to switch at end stations at 7th Street and Culver City instead of running through with Expo Phase 2 or Downtown Connector. So running time will be more like 35-37 minutes when it's all said and done. A little better than the 10 freeway at rush hour.

You can get to 3rd St. Promenade by Big Blue Bus from Downtown LA in just 30 minutes. The Expo Line seems like it'll be about the same as the Blue Line in terms of transit time. It WON'T be just a "quick" hop on the train to Santa Monica if it's 45 minutes.

Since when??? It takes 30 minutes for the bus to travel ON the 10 freeway add another 20-25 at either end of the route.

But my beef with pretty much all light rail lines (ESP. the damn GOLD LINE) is how fucking slow it crawls at some points. I wanna get to where I wanna get to fast and seating on the train when it's crawling gives me pain in my chest.

That is just bad signal coordination and lack of power with the Gold and early start of the Blue Line. With the Blue Line, it originally took 60 minutes to get from Long Beach to Downtown. Then they allowed signal priority on Washington Blvd, automatically shaving 5-7 minutes off of the running time. Same with the Gold Line, not reflected in the current timetables but they've worked out a couple of the signalling bugs and shaved 5 minutes off the running time for both Locals and "Express". Then with the extra power that will be provided per the East LA Gold Line project will shave a possible 2 more minutes off the time so that more trains can operate, more frequently with end to end taking 26 minutes to travel close to 14 miles and making all stops.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

You can get to 3rd St. Promenade by Big Blue Bus from Downtown LA in just 30 minutes.

Since when??? It takes 30 minutes for the bus to travel ON the 10 freeway add another 20-25 at either end of the route.

I assume you all are talking about the Big Blue Freeway Express, Line 10. I've ridden that bus, and whatever the schedule says (51 minutes during rush hour), that bus is completely at the mercy of traffic. If the traffic is heavy, the trip is going to 1-1/2 hours, just like if you're driving.

So to me, 45 minutes isn't bad. And PV, if you're right about the projected trip time being 35-37 minutes, I think the ridership will be enormous.

In off-peak hours, when there is no traffic and no accidents, you can get downtown in as little as 20 minutes by car. But these kinds of off-peak hours are becoming more and more rare. The other night for instance, it took me over an hour to get downtown from Santa Monica -- at 8pm!!!

To me, the key is reliability. If I know I can leave 4th/Colorado in Santa Monica and be guaranteed to be at Metro Center in 40 minutes, I'm going to take that line to work every day, rather than gambling on the freeways.

[Wright Concept]

So to me, 45 minutes isn't bad. And PV, if you're right about the projected trip time being 35-37 minutes, I think the ridership will be enormous.

To me, the key is reliability. If I know I can leave 4th/Colorado in Santa Monica and be guaranteed to be at Metro Center in 40 minutes, I'm going to take that line to work every day, rather than gambling on the freeways.



Yes 35-37 minutes will be the goal, since Phase 2 will be grade separated and cut through diagonally through the Westside. Also the City of Santa Monica is in the process of buying more of the Right of Way from Olympic Blvd to 4th/Colorado which would, in my guessing, shave 2-3 minutes of the time from having to run like a street tram, it would just cut through at 55 mph on a dedicated right-of-way away from traffic.

And the 35-37 range is based if the Downtown Connector is built. 35 minutes if the connector is built and 37 without the Downtown Connector. Then there's the potential to shave another 1-2 minutes by moving the Blue Line underground down Washington or another corridor like through Fashion District/South Park by removing that at-grade turn the trains have to make at Washington/Flower. :banana:

[bobcat]

Has the route for Phase II been finalized?

[Wright Concept]

^ Nope, that is what they are working on right now to prepare for the Phase 2 EIR. For the most part the major road block, Cheviot Hills will be supportive of the project so they can study using the entire Right of Way. Also there are existing grade separated structures and wide right-of-way West of the Culver City Station that are intact for this project that will keep the costs down.

[pdxstreetcar]

LA could really use some true express LRT lines and not that crappy Gold line type of express that shaves only a few minutes off the trip.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

As PV said, the right-of-way for Phase II slices through the Westside grid and travels literally as the crow flies to DTSM. IMO, this fact is the biggest selling point for the ROW. It is really something we could only dream of in other areas. In my opinion, the MTA shouldn't even consider (in any serious way) diverting from this path.

Obviously, only the Purple Line will tie the city together like it should be. As many have said, Wilshire Boulevard is the spine of Los Angeles, and without a subway beneath it, we are in a sense a city that hasn't yet lived up to its potential. But I wouldn't discount the need for the Expo Line, either. These two lines are both extremely important pieces of the growing transit network.

[Wright Concept]

LA could really use some true express LRT lines and not that crappy Gold line type of express that shaves only a few minutes off the trip.

Until we can acquire the extra 25-50' of right of way needed for tracks and platforms or build-in more track switches and siding tracks to make this practical then it's not going to happen in LA anytime soon.

As for the Gold Line's "Express Service" they've recently got the signals coordinated so that shaved 5 minutes off of the running time so that it only takes 29 minutes to make all the stops. Once they get more power on some sections and remove the CPUC restriction for the 210 freeway portions so that trains can go at 65 mph since it is a completely grade searated section; then they can shave an additional 2-4 minutes off the train without building any additional infrastructure. Reliably making trip times comperable to the auto and making ALL stops!

[Alta California]

How much of the speed slowdown is by law stipulating that trains can not exceed a certain limit when travelling through residential neighborhoods like the Gold Line? Tinkering with traffic signals and coordination is a very limited solution until the law changes. I think that during daytime, trains should be able to run quiet faster than they do now through neighborhoods.

[edluva]

Once they get more power on some sections and remove the CPUC restriction for the 210 freeway portions so that trains can go at 65 mph since it is a completely grade searated section; then they can shave an additional 2-4 minutes off the train without building any additional infrastructure. Reliably making trip times comperable to the auto and making ALL stops!

But this wouldn't shorten the time between old town (memorial park/del mar stations) and union station. Unlike most freeways in LA the 110 downhill is pretty fast most of the time - you can get downtown from arroyo pkwy in 10-15 mins. That segment will benefit a lot from a revitalized dtla retail/residential mix since commuting by auto is still stiff competition.

[Wright Concept]

I said close to not beating the 110. And if the trains came more frequenly that might make a dent. But the key problem comes in arriving Downtown, where the transfer to the Red Line is cumbersome. That is why the Downtown Connector is important for this line, because it would make the times into the heart of Downtown much closer to that of riding the 110 since by Downtown, they're searching for parking spots and mingling with drivers from the 5 and 10 freeways.

[Damien]

I wanted to bring this up here so we could discuss it.

The two things I've been most shaky about on the map were the Sherman Way spur of the Gold line and the whole South LA east-west connector lines (Orange line and Slauson line).

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/damienwg/goodmon_final.gif

ELIMINATING THE SHERMAN WAY LINE
Now I'd really like to see a line down Sherman Way. It's a wide boulevard, with so much density (its lined with 3 & 4 story apartment buildings with dozens of units in each) and there is so many redevelopment/infill opportunities and potential to add lush landscaping. Plus the major east-west streets to the north and south of Sherman Way have similar are pretty much the same.

But, the reality is the San Fernando Valley busway (a.k.a. the MTA Orange line) which is much further south of Sherman Way is already in operation, it is a big success and as I either learned here or on the Transit Coalition board, one of the conditions of the MTA getting the money from the state to build the line is that it MUST be eventually converted to rail. I'm less concerned about that last part, because I've got to bet some law could be passed to get around that, but nonetheless, I'm looking to add a little bit more credibility to the map, before I start talking to the big dogs about it. Everyone who is anyone looks at the map thinks, "Well what about the just converting the Orange line to rail?" and probably thinks the Sherman Way spur is wasteful. So I'm thinking about:
1) Getting rid of the Sherman Way segment of the Gold line (streetcars, with more frequent stops may be a better fit anyway).
2) Making the Orange line its own line from Burbank Media Center to Warner Center.

The difficulty getting the Orange line from Burbank Airport to North Hollywood station was one of the reasons I liked the Sherman Way spur so much. But with plans already in the making to extend the San Fernando Valley busway to Burbank Airport, might as well.

My thinking is to continue the Orange line east down Chandler (at-grade), north up North Hollywood Way (elevated) and east down the ROW (at-grade) to Burbank Media Center.

Now there likely will be community opposition to the Chandler segment, since it is currently a bike path. But I think two things could help with that:
1) Use a short cut-and-cover tunnel to get from Chandler to North Hollywood Way to contain the noise from the turn. (This incidentally is probably the best if not only way to make that almost "S"-like turn anyway).
2) Preserve the bikeway and construct this part of the line just like the Expo ROW "Transit Corridors" are currently designed:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/damienwg/ExpoImage13-ExistingNationalBouleva.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/damienwg/rendering5.jpg

Now the Gold line Ventura Blvd elevated line, would remain, and the Reseda & Nordhoff spur (connecting CSUN and the Northridge mall to the system) would branch off at Ventura/Reseda. (This has the added benefit of being a corridor already identified as needing north-south connector service by MTA, per the draft Long Range Transportation Plan.

Thoughts?

SOUTH LA EAST-WEST CONNECTOR
It always bothered me that there would be no east-west connector between the Expo and Green line, especially since this is area is completely transit dependent (look at the draft LRTP to see what I mean). And even if we converted the Slauson ROW to light rail that still wouldn't be enough. Florence, Manchester and Century are all surrounded by density and lower-income citizens. My solution as you see from the map is the LAXpress and the Florence line. I partially picked Florence because, its ridership is currently high enough to warrant Rapid service, it better connects with the portion of my Orange line east of the Blue line, but I've always wanted to move the line down to Manchester so it could tie in more South LA residents.

With the Slauson ROW currently being studied by the MTA I think it might be wiser to advocate for a Slauson line and a Manchester line. I'm going to check the density and ridership stats to be sure this is a smart move today. This would allow the Manchester line to pull from everything from Florence to Century, while Slauson line could pull from the Vernon to Florence.

The lines would split from the Firestone/Atlantic station, with the Manchester line going down the Independence Ave ROW to Firestone (which turns into Manchester) to the Aviation Blvd ROW, down the ROW and terminating at an LAX station, while the Slauson line would continue to Salt Lake/Florence then Randolph/Pacific, down the Slauson ROW to Centinela/Florence and assuming the final six stops of the Orange line all the way to Playa Vista.

(Incidentally, I now realize I misnamed a station. Salt Lake/Firestone should actually be Salt Lake/Florence.)

This would not prevent an LAXpress line from using the ROW, but it probably would be wisest if it were light rail as well.

Oh and since I'm going to convert the San Fernando Valley busway to rail and its currently known as the Orange line, I'm going to need to rename my Orange line. Any ideas? When picking the color keep in mind how well it would go over with Councilman Parks. :)

[Damien]

Oh and I forgot to mention that the map got some great unexpected coverage on CurbedLA (http://la.curbed.com/archives/2006/09/post_13.php) and blogging.la (http://blogging.la/archives/2006/09/the_future_of_la_mass_transit.phtml), where me and Art held it down against the naysayers!

Anyone wondering how strong the map would be in garnering support in the county for rail expansion should read the comments.

[ocman]

Finally on the right track

Building a subway line along Wilshire Boulevard to the beach, an idea officially revived last week when the House of Representatives voted to repeal a 20-year-old tunneling ban here, is an example of urban planning done backward: Watch as population and job growth push an urban corridor in the direction of Tokyo-like density. Then ram an underground train route right through it. And pay dearly, in dollars and political capital, for the privilege.

The plan remains an exceedingly tough sell. In comparison with the massive cost and disruption that would come with digging new tunnels along Wilshire, above-ground transit projects — the planned Gold Line extension eastward through the San Gabriel Valley, for example, or the Exposition Line through Culver City — will always appear more cost-efficient.


But maybe it's time to redefine exactly what cost-efficiency means in a city such as Los Angeles. If we had managed to get past hidden pockets of methane and pointed NIMBYism and extended the Red Line along Wilshire in the 1990s, after all, it would now look like the biggest bargain in Southern California transit history. Measured over time, the political expediency Los Angeles has always been known for can be awfully expensive in its own right.

And the Wilshire subway — which the MTA renamed the Purple Line last month — promises to do more than ease Westside gridlock and provide a framework for inevitable growth. In a way unique among transit projects being considered, it could trace a new urban blueprint here, recasting the old image of Wilshire as a linear downtown for an age of density and knitting the idea of Los Angeles — the city, not the collection of retail centers and red carpets — back together. It could turn a neon-bright symbol of L.A.'s love affair with the private car into the best-used transit corridor in Southern California: the strip as civic spine.

It would also connect, in the space of a single subway ride, some of the city's most important cultural institutions, quirkiest icons and most recognizable landmarks. From east to west, this appealing jumble includes Skidmore, Owings and Merrill's One Wilshire building downtown; the former Bullock's Wilshire building; the Wiltern LG theater; Langdon Wilson's Superior Court building (just off Wilshire); the Los Angeles County Museum of Art; and UCLA's Hammer Museum. It ends just above the beach at the statue of Saint Monica, standing with her back to the ocean.

Even the proposed first section of the two-part extension, to the corner of Wilshire and Fairfax, would bring LACMA onto the subway grid — a move that could have a dramatic effect on the museum's centrality in the city's cultural and psychic landscape as architect Renzo Piano works to redesign its campus.

From a practical point of view, of course, the extension, which Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa has championed since his days on the campaign trail, could hardly be more overdue. The Wilshire corridor cuts directly through what transit planners call the most densely populated urban area in the United States that isn't served by either a subway or light rail. But it would also be staggeringly expensive: roughly $350 million per mile to drag the subway an additional 13 miles along Wilshire to the beach.

As the extension debate has intensified in recent weeks, it has been remarkable to see how spreading gridlock on the Westside has turned some of the Wilshire subway's most stubborn adversaries into cheerleaders for mass transit. The converts include Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Los Angeles), who sponsored the original tunneling-ban legislation after a 1985 methane explosion in a Ross clothing store before working this summer to reverse it; L.A. County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky, who pushed an anti-subway ballot measure in 1998 but now supports the Purple Line; and Diana Plotkin, president of the Beverly Wilshire Homes Assn., who told The Times she was "terrified" 20 years ago of a subway running through her neighborhood but now says, "We do need a solution to this horrible traffic problem."

Funding for the project — even the first phase to Fairfax, which could cost more than $1 billion — remains very much in doubt. But Villaraigosa's close ties to Sacramento will help in securing state money, and a pair of infrastructure bond measures on the November ballot, Propositions 1A and 1B, could direct several billion dollars to L.A. County for highway and transit construction.

Some opponents of the subway to the sea complain that it makes little sense for Los Angeles because it borrows an ill-fitting notion of dense urbanity from New York and San Francisco, or because it would threaten L.A.'s neighborhood diversity. But development spurred by stations along Wilshire could help highlight distinctions between neighborhoods rather than erase them.

Indeed, travel by subway can make those differences more pronounced. When you're riding underground, even along a single boulevard, Point A becomes distinct from Point B; sections of the city become discrete locations rather than parts of an asphalt continuum. Transit-oriented development around subway stops can further this sense, though the design of projects on land controlled by the MTA — such as the Hollywood and Highland shopping center or the Archeon Group's proposed $160-million condo tower for the intersection of Wilshire and Western — is hardly encouraging along these lines.

Most of us would rarely if ever take the line for its full route. But it would make all the difference to know that we could. With a subway connection to the beach, after all, residents of El Sereno, Koreatown or downtown could reasonably think of themselves as living in the same city as somebody in Brentwood.

Without it, those neighborhoods threaten to drift off permanently into their own orbits. And we can start thinking of Monica, facing east from the beach along the proposed course of the subway, as the patron saint of blown opportunities.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

My post from Metroblogging:

It's only a matter of time. We probably will never have anything as comprehensive as this, politics will get in the way. But trust me, the politics of gridlocked traffic will result in many many of these lines being built. The Wilshire Subway, once considered a dead issue, is alive again in the public eye, and I'm confident it will be under construction by 2014.

It all comes down to commerce and money, and that will drive it. Remember, NYC didn't build it's subway system out of altruism, it was the profit motive. But trust me, when my fellow Angelenos finally get over the idea that our city is somehow different from all other major world cities, it is the citizens of L.A. who will benefit.

[solongfullerton]

Damien, I really like your map, but everytime i see it i still get confused with the Westside Pavillion stop. I drive by there everyday, and although overland/pico is a major intersection, that mall isnt really much of a destination, especially for the transit riding type. Although its no beverly center, it still caters to the very well to do. anyways, taking that into consideration as well as the fact that housing is not very dense in that area and that the 45 degree turn the train would have to take is nearly impossible, i think the mta would be better just running the tunnel from century city back to wilshire where it could make a stop in condo canyon and westwood village. south of wilshire, westwood has some very dense neighborhoods that would benefit far greater than the rancho park area, which is all single family homes.

[Damien]

Damien, I really like your map, but everytime i see it i still get confused with the Westside Pavillion stop. I drive by there everyday, and although overland/pico is a major intersection, that mall isnt really much of a destination, especially for the transit riding type.

The intersection for the Westside Pavilion is actually Pico/Westwood. The 405 line comes from the Valley under the mountains to UCLA and then continues south down Westwood (stations at Wilshire, Santa Monica & Pico) and west down Pico (station at Westside Pavilion & Expo junction at Sepulveda) to the 405. All of that would be underground. It then would come from under the ground to head south down the eastern shoulder of the 405 freeway.

Also, I'm a firm believer in serving major retail centers (i.e. traffic generators), so I'd argue for the station but ultimately it'll be the big money planners and politicians who decide. And while the clientele for the Westside Pavilion might not seem like a transit rider today, I'd hope to get to the day that it is. And there are plenty of people who aren't affluent who frequent the mall or might want to go to the mall and when seeing it on the map will think "Wow. It would be really cool to be able to take the train there."

i think the mta would be better just running the tunnel from century city back to wilshire where it could make a stop in condo canyon and westwood village. south of wilshire, westwood has some very dense neighborhoods that would benefit far greater than the rancho park area, which is all single family homes.

Not quite sure what which line you're referring to. The Westside Pavilion is served by the Bronze/405 line while Century City is served by the Purple/Wilshire line. The Purple line heads southwest from Wilshire/Santa Monica down Santa Monica, north up Westwood to Wilshire and west down Wilshire. The area along Wilshire between Santa Monica Blvd and Westwood blvd is D-E-A-D as far as population density, transit dependency and job density is concerned, while the area along Santa Monica between Wilshire and Westwood has high job density. It's a wise diversion.

[solongfullerton]

I was reading the map w/o my glasses and with all the station names being so small and close together i was misunderstood. anyways, as for the santa monica/westwod stop, you're right about businesses along SMB, but thats still one hell of a turn for the train. maybe a stop at overland in front of the mormon church would be a better idea, with its central location between CC and the 405, which would also make the turn up to UCLA much more gradual. You're bronze line could serve the sepulveda corridor, which isnt even that far from westwood in the first place.

[Damien]

I hear you. Just because the map says it has a station at Santa Monica/Westwood doesn't mean the station opening has to be on that corner. For example, it could be a block east on Santa Monica/Glendon or on the southeast corner of Westwood/Massachusetts. That would be up to the planners to decide, and if they did need to put the station opening a block away, the map would still say Santa Monica/Westwood, because that's an intersection people recognize. Whether riders have to walk 30-60 seconds from the intersection to the station entry is less of a concern than people being able to look at the map and plan their trip. I wouldn't go with Overland though, because there's no bus on Overland, and in this area Westwood is a bit of a commercial and retail strip. But you bring up an excellent point. The turn is about 95 degrees and these are heavy rail vehicles, so its more likely than not that the actual station entries will be a block away from the intersection. But remember there is some flexibility here as the line is completely underground.

Regarding Westwood or Sepulveda, this actually came up when discussing a Bronze/405 line: should the Bronze line turn east to the 405 eastern shoulder after the Wilshire/Westwood stop or after the Westside Pavilion stop? The simple answer is I'd rather have the Westside Pavilion on the map than not. It's a landmark to those not as familiar with the area, and a shopping destination for a lot of people. I also saw it as a bit of a question of who is more likely to walk 0.4 mile: a person with a handful of stuff they just bought from the mall or a person going to work on Sepulveda.

[J Church]

Damien, I saw the Metblogs and Curbed posts and comments. Good show. Keep plugging.

Now this ... this is funny:

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2006/09/expo_line_break.php

[RAlossi]

Hey, has train frequency increased on the Red Line? I was Downtown yesterday and I could swear that there was a dramatic increase in the number. I just missed my NoHo-bound train by seconds, and there was another one probably 7 minutes later.

[DJM19]

that might have been because there were so many things going on downtown, with two music fests and the USC game and Dodger game

[Easy]

I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but in the past they've run longer trains on busy weekends but not more frequent trains. Are you sure that you missed a NoHo train or was it a 6-car Wilshire/Western train? Either way, I'd be really surprised to see 7-minute headways weekends on the North Hollywood line when it only runs at 10-minute headways during rush hour during the week.

[colemonkee]

There were more surveyors along the Expo line this morning. Hopefully we see some real movement soon. The two middle lanes of Expo have been closed to traffic (with the exception of left turn lanes) for over a month now. I'd like to see some more visible construction work, or at least some signage...

[Wright Concept]

Hey, has train frequency increased on the Red Line? I was Downtown yesterday and I could swear that there was a dramatic increase in the number. I just missed my NoHo-bound train by seconds, and there was another one probably 7 minutes later.

Part of that was due to service delays on the Gold and Blue Lines that affects the transfer scheduling, so they made an adjustment for it.

[Wright Concept]

There were more surveyors along the Expo line this morning. Hopefully we see some real movement soon. The two middle lanes of Expo have been closed to traffic (with the exception of left turn lanes) for over a month now. I'd like to see some more visible construction work, or at least some signage...

Where on Expo? To my knowledge they were going to start the majority of work on the Downtown to USC portion first.

[colemonkee]

Just before Western, heading west along Exposition.

[citywatch]

You know ppl's views of subway transit in LA have changed when things like this are occurring, in Beverly Hills, no less:


westsidechronicle.com, October 9, 2006

Committee Proposes Subway Route, Station Locations

Beverly Hills continues to work with the Metropolitan Transit Authority as discussions move forward about extending the Metro Red Line to the Westside, with the city’s Mass Transit Committee (MTC) making preliminary recommendations for route alignments and station locations within the city limits.

The committee, which consulted with traffic experts Kaku & Associates, was created about six months ago to discuss Beverly Hills’ interests in regional mass transit and has expressed support for a route alignment along Wilshire Boulevard with station locations at Wilshire and La Cienega boulevards and at Wilshire Boulevard and Rodeo/Beverly drives.

The committee reviewed a total of four different route alignments and 11 station locations. The review took into consideration that it is most realistic to expect a station location at Fairfax Avenue and Wilshire Boulevard east of city limits, and a station location in Century City at Avenue of the Stars west of city limits. The committee also visited several different Red Line station locations to view how each station fit into the community where it was located.

According to another committee report, stations are generally one mile apart and should be located where transit ridership potential is the highest. The nearest anticipated stations outside of Beverly Hills include Fairfax Avenue and Wilshire Boulevard to the east, assuming a Wilshire alignment; West Hollywood to the northeast, assuming a Santa Monica and San Vicente boulevards alignment; and Century City to the west, assuming all alignments. The recommended stations would serve both ends of the city and would allow for visitor traffic throughout the area.

The line was originally intended to run along the Wilshire Corridor to Santa Monica, but a 1985 methane gas explosion at a Ross Dress For Less in the Fairfax area incited Cong. Henry Waxman (D-Los Angeles) in 1986 to legislate a ban on Federal money used for tunneling under certain portions of Wilshire Boulevard ostensibly due to methane gas safety concerns. The MTA has maintained that technological advances will allow it to tunnel safely.

Los Angeles Mayor and MTA head Antonio Villaraigosa has declared an extension of the Red Line to downtown Santa Monica a major priority and is offering visionary slogans such as “subway to the sea” and “..the most utilized subway in the nation, maybe the world.”

In the past, Westside residents reportedly balked at a subway that would make their community more accessible from the “economically disadvantaged” Eastside. An initiative in 1968 that would have built a subway to West Los Angeles was rejected by voters. With present density and traffic gridlock, many people have done a complete turnaround on the idea of a Wilshire Boulevard subway.

Waxman, whose Westside district the extension would pass through, even sponsored a repeal of the tunneling law, which was repealed last month by the House of Representatives and awaits a Senate vote. The Mass Transit Committee has not yet finalized its recommendations, however, “it clearly supports including Beverly Hills within the proposed Westside Subway extension,” the committee’s report said. “After receiving community input at a proposed town hall meeting, the committee’s goal is to finalize formal written recommendations for council consideration in December.

“I think this committee is being an active player in the planning process by participating in the regional planning process,” Deputy Director of Transportation Aaron Kunz said.

The town hall meeting is scheduled for Oct. 19.

[solongfullerton]

In the past, Westside residents reportedly balked at a subway that would make their community more accessible from the “economically disadvantaged” Eastside. An initiative in 1968 that would have built a subway to West Los Angeles was rejected by voters. With present density and traffic gridlock, many people have done a complete turnaround on the idea of a Wilshire Boulevard subway.

My guess is that the population that lived on the Westside 20 years ago is far less than half of the people who live on the Westside now. LA is a dynamic city, and as much as we hate people from the East Coast stereotyping us for whatever reason, we should hate it even more that we do it to ourselves.

With that said, this is really exciting news. The 2 stops proposed for BH seem to be the obvious choice if the subway goes straight under wilshire. Even if the subway went up towards 3rd or beverly, it should still come back down to La cienega and wilshire because of the concentration of jobs/high rises at that intersection.

I also remember seeing a potential route from the current H&H station that would get to SMB and head West where it would meet with the wilshire line on the west border of beverly hills. that would be an amazing if the city could get both hose lines built. i'd like to see the picture of that again if anyone remembers where to find it.

[solongfullerton]

sorry, double post

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Just amazing. I really feel like this thing will happen this time.

[J Church]

You know, I think I'm going to have to put together a little Google Map of ye olde Purple Line extension. What do we have so far, most likely?

Crenshaw
La Brea
Fairfax
La Cienega
Beverly
Avenue of the Stars

And then ...? Santa Monica and Westwood, then up to Westwood Village? If you're turning onto Wilshire the station is either going to have to be several blocks south or west. And if the plan is to continue out Wilshire to Santa Monica that's going to be quite the zigzag.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

Doing the zig-zag down to Santa Monica and Westwood would provide an easier way for westsiders to access the Purple Line. Westside buses and park/ride commuters wouldn't have to traverse the traffic-congested streets of Westwood to serve the line. (In my experience, there is no worse traffic than the traffic through Westwood).

This would also be an interesting location for a future Union Station West, a convergence point for the Purple Line, 405 Line and an Expo branch. Although I'm afraid the traffic situation might take a serious hit by having such a convergence there.

The alternative is to create a direct route from Century City to Westwood, by tunnelling (sp?) straight through below the high-rises of the Golden Mile.

[J Church]

Alright, quickie GMaps hack. For purposes of illustration only.

http://sfcityscape.com/forum/metro_rail_purple_line/

[solongfullerton]

The map looks good. The only thing i might change is to have the La Cienega actually be a La Cienega/San Vicente stop. The station could be somewhere between with station portals at either intersection. The same thing could be done with a Beverly/Rodeo station.

The only problem i foresee with extending the line to westwood/ucla from ucla is tunneling under the neighborhoods between.

[regboi21]

when the people at metro rail starts construction on the expo line where will the maitinence(sp)yard where the expo trains are kept will be built will it be in downtown la or will the expo line use the existing yard by the 710 freeway in long beach.

[Wright Concept]

You know, I think I'm going to have to put together a little Google Map of ye olde Purple Line extension. What do we have so far, most likely?

Crenshaw
La Brea
Fairfax
La Cienega
Beverly
Avenue of the Stars

And then ...? Santa Monica and Westwood, then up to Westwood Village? If you're turning onto Wilshire the station is either going to have to be several blocks south or west. And if the plan is to continue out Wilshire to Santa Monica that's going to be quite the zigzag.


Well if the tunnel is built deep enough, this may not be much of a problem, then again it could climb back to Wilshire by going up Beverly Glen, problem is where do you put the station in that area? Which tower will have to be torn down/displaced in order to build the station. Or going up Westwood Blvd would work out to avoid potential problems.

[Wright Concept]

The map looks good. The only thing i might change is to have the La Cienega actually be a La Cienega/San Vicente stop. The station could be somewhere between with station portals at either intersection. The same thing could be done with a Beverly/Rodeo station.

The only problem i foresee with extending the line to westwood/ucla from ucla is tunneling under the neighborhoods between.

The one concern with going straight down Wilshire is that there is a strict zoning codes, narrow lots and expensive single family homes next to the potential stations, like Wilshire/La Cienega the question has to be asked is where do you build the stations, where per the city of Beverly Hills it's not profitable for a developer to build a mid rise or high rise on such as narrow site with expensive single family homes a block away.

[solongfullerton]

Second thought for the Century City station, what if it acted as a double station for Century City and Santa Monica Blvd? If the train veared slightly south on santa monica, it could stop between the hilton and BH high school. this way there could be a portal on the northeast corner of Century City, and also a portal at wilshire and SMB. After leaving this stop, trains could head northwest to wilshire under the golf course. of course there will be nimby action from the country club and its members, but atleast not from actual homeowners.

[Wright Concept]

when the people at metro rail starts construction on the expo line where will the maitinence(sp)yard where the expo trains are kept will be built will it be in downtown la or will the expo line use the existing yard by the 710 freeway in long beach.

There will be a small mid-day storage track for like 4 or 5 LRV's next to the Washington Blue Line Stations. For the Maintenance and Shops they will expand the existing Long Beach yard to add the additional tracks for trains needed for Expo Line to Santa Monica

[Damien]

The Century City diversion from Wilshire makes sense, as the Wilshire alternative would simply go through Condo row where there aren't any jobs and no transit dependent citizens. But a spur to the Grove and Beverly Center from Wilshire would not be wise in my opinion. One has to remember that a major goal of the Wilshire subway is to serve the jobs that line the corridor, and in this section between Fairfax and Santa Monica, by staying on Wilshire the subway stations would be 0.5 mile (10 min walk) or less from the jobs that line Olympic and (with the Century City dip) about the same distance from the Fox Studios.

Try all you want, and I have, and you won't be able to cover all of the westside with one line. We're going to need two lines and some streetcars. My recommendation is the second line come up Fairfax then west on 3rd, northwest up San Vicente, east on Sunset and north up Highland to Hollywood/Highland. The line forms a bit of a crescent but it probably has more individual trip generators than any route it's length outside of downtown LA: Sunset Strip, Santa Monica Blvd, Museum Row, Beverly Center, Cedars Sinai, Hollywood Highland, the Grove, Farmers Market, etc.. And if its tied to the Fairfax/Venice line, going all the way to Venice Beach via Little Ethiopia as I suggest in my conceptual map (http://s79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/damienwg/?action=view&current=goodmon_final.gif&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch9) it'll be packed with tourist 24-7.

Meanwhile, the Purple line should continue west down Wilshire, southwest down Santa Monica and north up Westwood all the way to the Valley. There's more political capital and ridership to be gained for the "subway to the sea" by having the Purple line continuing north under the mountains to the Orange line station at Van Nuys/Oxnard than continuing west from Wilshire/Westwood where after a couple of miles west of the 405, it begins to serve the same corridor as Expo Phase II.

Purple line stations would be:
Crenshaw/Wilshire - "Hancock Park"

(+ 1.4 miles)
La Brea/Wilshire - "Miracle Mile"

(+ 1 mile)
Fairfax/Wilshire - "Museum Row"

(+0.8 miles)
La Cienega/Wilshire - which would actually be a block east with station entrances on Hamilton and Tower to better serve both La Cienega and San Vicente (streetcar down San Vicente to Burton Way connecting to another line down Santa Monica anyone?)

(+0.6 miles)
Robertson/Wilshire - which at only 0.6 miles from the previous stop would be close, but with all the business on Robertson and all the businesses and offices between La Cienega and Beverly Drive on Wilshire, I don't see how the stop wouldn't be well used. I'd rather see stations 0.6 miles apart from each other in an area so friendly to pedistrian activity, with lots of retail locations and high job density than 1.5 miles apart from each other.

(+0.9 miles)
Beverly Drive/Wilshire - better to label the station "Rodeo Drive"

(+0.6 miles)
Santa Monica/Wilshire - see Robertson comment. With a Santa Monica Blvd street car - operating mostly down the southern shoulder of Santa Monica in Beverly Hills and down the street median in West Hollywood, and financed by the local governments of the City of Santa Monica and West Hollywood, I could possibly see eliminating this stop and moving the Century City stop to Avenue of the Stars.

(+0.9 miles)
Century Park West/Santa Monica - station would be known as "Century City", with entrances on Century Park West and midway betwen Century Park West and Ave of the Stars

(+1.1 miles)
Santa Monica/Westwood

(+0.7 miles)
Wilshire/Westwood - "Westwood Village"

(+0.7 miles)
Westwood Plaza/Strathmore Place - "UCLA"

(+6 miles under the mountains its a straight shot)
Van Nuys/Ventura - with no stations and a straight bored tunnel the cost would be significantly less than $300 million/mile, which is the average cost of a typical bored tunnel urban subway with stations every mile.

(+1 mile)
Van Nuys/Magnolia - where the subway comes out of the ground and begins running elevated

(+1 mile)
Van Nuys/Oxnard - the junction with the San Fernando Valley busway (currently misnamed the "Orange line")

[colemonkee]

Why wouldn't you make the Ventura stop at Ventura/Sepulveda? There seems to be a much more dense concentration of jobs there than at Van Nuys (there are three large highrises within a one block radius and 4-5 more within a 4 block radius). Then the line could veer northeast to Van Nuys/Magnolia.

[Wright Concept]

Personally, I feel that both are needed especially with Ventura/Sepulveda because that could double as a large Park-ride facility next to an existing shopping center.

But in terms of construction ease it's a straight line to bore a tunnel from UCLA to Ventura/Van Nuys. Then again you miss out on the Getty Center and Sherman Oaks retail/business on Venutra/Sepulveda.

With the Wilshire extension straight down Wilshire with the detour to Century City sounds good, but you can't miss a lot of the jobs that are north of Wilshire closer to Cedars Sinai, Beverly Center, Pacific Design Center.

But those issues can be resolved by the planners who get paid the big Bucks.

[Wright Concept]

Isn't that PracticalVisionary's department?

FLASH THAT BEAUTIFUL MTA MAP NOW, DAMMIT :)

Here's a diagram on what will be built per the MTA parameters and it's scheduled timeline.

One version

http://i12.tinypic.com/3326zch.gif

If Bernard Parks gets his way.

http://i12.tinypic.com/2czuaae.gif