Grand Avenue - Presentation Tuesday 22 February 2005

[bobcat]

How about MOCA and MOMA? I'm not sure where MOCA stands when paired together with all the other modern art museums in the US but I know that LA is the contemporary art capital of the world.

MOMA is a modern (post 1900) art museum. NYC's major contemporary (post WWII) art museums would be like the Guggenheim and possibly the Whitney, which MOCA compares very favorably to.

[citywatch]

The shorter tower looks kind of plain & chunky in the new model. I hope the final version will be a lot sleeker, or more like the 1st tower. Wish it could be taller too, if only so that more condos & apts can be created in the area, so that a larger mass of ppl will be around 24/7 to support the stores down below.

It is a catch 22, however, because I know highrise construction is more expensive than low rise wood framed bldgs, which makes condos/apts more $$, which in turn makes them harder to sell or rent, which means a smaller number of ppl living in the Grand Ave proj, which means fewer potential customers for the businesses like the grocery or book store.

But it would be great if the proj ends up with so much publicity, & arouses so much curiosity from the public, that buyers & renters knock down the devlpr's front door trying to get in.


Q&A
Grand Ave. Plan's Phases and Financing

By Cara Mia DiMassa, Times Staff Writer
February 14, 2007

A new image from Frank Gehry of the Grand Avenue project was released. How is it different from the original one?

Gehry and partners have made small changes in the look, shape and height of the two towers and are refining some details of those towers' podiums as retail tenants sign on to the project. Both towers are still clad in glass, but the surface looks different from some of the original designs, which showed a pleated surface. Gehry is scheduled to release his final schematic designs in a number of weeks.

*

Now that the project itself has been approved, what happens next?

Related Cos. is scheduled to break ground on the project's first phase in October, and complete it by 2011. Planning and design for the civic park that is part of the project's first phase continue. The joint powers authority must still decide who will operate the public park, and whether additional private money will be raised for the park's construction, beyond the $50 million that has already been set aside.

*

What will be included in the Grand Avenue project?

The first phase, on the block of land directly east of the Walt Disney Concert Hall, will include a five-star Mandarin Oriental hotel, an Equinox sports club, a bookstore, a grocery store and other retail as well as a number of restaurants. A thousand residential units are also included; 200 of them have been designated as "affordable" housing. The second phase is to be built on the block south of Disney Hall, with preliminary plans calling for two 30- to 35-story residential towers, one five- to six-story residential building, and more retail stores and parking. The third phase would go east of Disney Hall. Preliminary plans call for a 35- to 40-story residential building including some retail shops and possibly a 15- to 20-story building that would be office space or condos. The county is still considering whether to raze its current administrative headquarters and move to an office building in the third phase.

*

What's the timeline for the later phases?

Construction on Phase 2 is scheduled to begin in 2013 and be completed by August 2015. Phase 3 would begin in March 2014 and be done by January 2018.

*

How is the project being financed?

Most of the financing for the project is being provided by the developer, Related Cos., and its financial partners, which include the equity firm MacFarlane Partners and the California Public Employees Retirement System. In addition to the land on which Grand Avenue will be built, the public agencies also are providing some funding for affordable housing and streetscape improvements. As part of its approval Tuesday, the city signed off on up to $66 million in tax breaks for the deal.

*

Is it unusual for a project of this size to receive tax breaks?

Another huge downtown project — the L.A. Live sports and entertainment complex near Staples Center — was granted up to $290 million in subsidies and tax breaks from the city for a convention center hotel. But Grand Avenue is different from most mega-developments because it is being built on public land. The developer has a 99-year lease.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

"The desire for an iconic skyline, that's just for aesthetics," said Antonovich, a longtime opponent of the project. "That should be borne by a developer and not the taxpayers who reside in the entire county."

Downtown LA has been the symbol of LA County and always will be. Why shouldn't LA County have a true "county center" that they can all be proud of? It's not like there is ANYTHING even close to surpassing the power of Downtown LA in LA County. So instead of diluting LA County into puny little downtowns, have a major one. It works for NY, Chicago, and the Bay Area.


Christopher Sutton, an attorney for the Westin Bonaventure Hotel, which has opposed the tax breaks for the Mandarin Oriental, told the City Council and the Board of Supervisors that his client was prepared to take legal action to block the project if necessary. He called the project a "direct threat" to the Bonaventure.

I thought that Peter Zen got shut up after he received the ok to convert his 40% of his hotel to condos? Mr. Zen, you need to not be so greedy and selfish. Downtown LA has been stifled by this guy and I hope someone buys him out.

[Quixote]

Not true, Colburn is VERY prestigious and its students typically are accepted to Juilliard as well. It's true that it's not as well known as Juilliard to the general public, however.



What particularly makes Colburn very prestigious? Is it dominant in any particular field?

[bjornson]

It's conservatory of music is VERY well known.

[bobcat]

Peter Zen is delusional if he thinks people staying at the Mandarin Oriental would even consider the Bonaventure as an alternative. The only hotels which could conceivably be "threatened" by the MO would be the Ritz, the Gansevoort, and perhaps the Omni.

[bobcat]

What particularly makes Colburn very prestigious? Is it dominant in any particular field?

They are possibly the wealthiest conservatory of music in the country and thus are able to hire the best instructors as well as provide all students with free tuition and room/board.

[Quixote]

MOMA is a modern (post 1900) art museum. NYC's major contemporary (post WWII) art museums would be like the Guggenheim and possibly the Whitney, which MOCA compares very favorably to.

That sounds like a bit of a stretch. The Guggenheim is VERY prestigious. It neighbors The Met, both of which lie in the most prestigious area of NYC. MOCA doesn't have a particularly large collection in comparison to The Guggenheim or the Whitney. MOCA DOES have an impressive lists of artist collections though and it doesn't hurt that the architect won the Royal Gold Medal in 1986. That's quite an accomplishment.

[edluva]

Carnegie Hall/Walt Disney Concert Hall
Lincoln Center/Los Angeles Music Center
Madison Square Garden/Staples Center
Radio City Music Hall/?
Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts/Central Los Angeles Area High School #9
Times Square/LA Live :koko:
Time Warner Center/Grand Avenue

^LA Live?! Colburn has a much better chance against the Julliard.

and while we've got a few things going downtown, let's not start comparing ourselves to the only hyperdense 23 sq mile island of its kind in the world. I can name dozens of other manhattan points of interests that DTLA doesn't have an answer to.

but cheers anyways. now DTLA can tout not one, but TWO suburban cineplexes which will surely put us in the cultural ranks of champs elysees/midtown/piccadilly. Imagine when we get the yellow line built, and tourists will be forced to choose between Grand ave, LA Live, and Americana at Brand. They'll be like "wow, LA has a lot of high culture, and I can head to D&Bs right after watching Madame Butterfly - at Regal Cinemas *and* the Dorothy Chandler. What an urban wet dream". :cheers:

[bobcat]

That sounds like a bit of a stretch. The Guggenheim is VERY prestigious. It neighbors The Met, both of which lie in the most prestigious area of NYC. MOCA doesn't have a particularly large collection in comparison to The Guggenheim or the Whitney.

It's not a completely direct comparison because the Guggenheim and Whitney collect works other than post WWII art, but if we just look at the contemporary art collections, MOCA does compare well. MOCA really does have a very strong collection.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

What particularly makes Colburn very prestigious? Is it dominant in any particular field?

Children are flown in from other states just to be taught by the talented and respected faculty. I once read that a gifted boy from Utah was flown in from SLC every week just to be taught by some pianist at Colburn. The mom would fly with the boy into LA on Thurs. and be back home by Sat. and repeat very week. I'm not sure if he's still there since the article wasn't written that long ago.

Anyway, I also know a friend that works there. He personally graduated from Oberlin in Cleveland and is an amazing pianist. He's also very arrogant bout his reputation and he was telling me how proud he was to be a part of Colburn. He told me once the college was finished that it would become incredible. I believe him. :)

[Quixote]

What's the timeline for the later phases?

Construction on Phase 2 is scheduled to begin in 2013 and be completed by August 2015. Phase 3 would begin in March 2014 and be done by January 2018.


:hell:

2018? You've got to be kidding me.

[bobcat]

Children are flown in from other states just to be taught by the talented and respected faculty. I once read that a gifted boy from Utah was flown in from SLC every week just to be taught by some pianist at Colburn. The mom would fly with the boy into LA on Thurs. and be back home by Sat. and repeat very week. I'm not sure if he's still there since the article wasn't written that long ago.

Anyway, I also know a friend that works there. He personally graduated from Oberlin in Cleveland and is an amazing pianist. He's also very arrogant bout his reputation and he was telling me how proud he was to be a part of Colburn. He told me once the college was finished that it would become incredible. I believe him. :)

Just to give an example of the caliber of students at Colburn, at the 2006 World Piano Competition (http://www.amsa-wpc.org/results.html), of the 16 finalists (http://www.cincinnatiwpc.org/artists2006.html) two were students at Colburn while 4 had studied at Juilliard. The two Colburn students tied for 2nd place, while none of the Juilliard musicians finished in the top 6.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ :) Colburn will get recognized more once the college is up and running.

I also think that MOCA should be opened up, literally, by punching in windows perhaps to reveal the lower level. It would give a sense of transparency and make it more pedestrian oriented. Also, switch the restaurant and gift shop around. The restaurant should be upstairs where everyone can see and the gift shop should be logically by the museum's entrance downstairs. This shouldn't be impossible.

[Quixote]

Now LA just needs to reclaim its paper and establish itself as more of a fashion capital along the lines of Paris, NYC, and Milan.

Though I just can never understand why LA never ranks at the top of any list. I tried searching online for a list of the top 10 shopping cities in the US. They asked me to rank San Diego, San Antonio, Honolulu, Miami, San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Twin Cities, and Orlando in order from 1 to 10. New York came in first. Chicago came in second. San Francisco came in third. Los Angeles came in sixth. Though the absence of Las Vegas from the list was a clear indication that the list wasn't at all accurate.

http://www.quia.com/servlets/quia.activities.common.ActivityPlayer?AP_rand=2040269975&AP_activityType=11&AP_urlId=30492&AP_continuePlay=true&id=30492

BUT

Top 10 Cities for Shopaholics

1. Bangkok
2. Buenos Aires
3. Copenhagen
4. Hong Kong
5. London
6. Los Angeles
7. Marrakesh
8. New York
9. Paris
10. St. Barths

http://www.shermanstravel.com/destinations/top_ten/Cities_for_Shopaholics

Top 10 Cities for Art Lovers

1. Berlin
2. Chicago
3. Florence
4. London
5. New York
6. Paris
7. Rome
8. San Miguel de Allende
9. Vienna
10. Washington, DC

http://www.shermanstravel.com/destinations/top_ten/Cities_for_Art_Lovers

Top 10 Cities for Foodies

1. Barcelona
2. Brussels
3. Hanoi
4. Las Vegas
5. Lyon
6. New York
7. Rome
8. San Francisco
9. Tokyo
10. Vancouver

http://www.shermanstravel.com/destinations/top10_list/Cities_for_Foodies

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Because LA is diluted! It's obvious to us who live here how much this metropolitan area offers, but it's not salient/apparent enough to make an impression in people.

That's why Downtown LA and the surrounding areas, as it densifies and becomes more compact, will present a much more distinct experience for visitors and residents alike.

Plus, it's interesting how the San Gabriel Valley is left out of "LA" when it has some of the best restaurants in the USA. OH Well.

[Quixote]

Thank you all for enlightening me. I wasn't aware of Colburn's and MOCA's prestigious backgrounds prior to this discussion. You have now led me to believe that LA plays a MAJOR role in music and contemporary art. It's also possibly the international center for contemporary art, architecture, and fashion! :)

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^ :) Colburn will get recognized more once the college is up and running.

I also think that MOCA should be opened up, literally, by punching in windows perhaps to reveal the lower level. It would give a sense of transparency and make it more pedestrian oriented. Also, switch the restaurant and gift shop around. The restaurant should be upstairs where everyone can see and the gift shop should be logically by the museum's entrance downstairs. This shouldn't be impossible.

MOCA has a restaurant? Who knew? :shrug: :shrug:

[colemonkee]

I'm really liking the new massing of the taller tower. The L-shaped footprint seems to have gone away, the curves are subtle and organic, and the varied heights of the "fins" at the top give the tower a dynamic, yet refined crown. I think this is Gehry's best skyscraper design yet (though I did like his never-built proposal for the NY Times building).

As for the shorter building, yes, it is a bit more squat, but that's okay. If we lose the LA County Courthouse, you'll have better views of the signature building from lower in the planned park. Besides, it's really not that much of a change from the original model in terms of height. Now the devil will be in the details...

[BrandonJXN]

I'm really liking the new massing of the taller tower. The L-shaped footprint seems to have gone away, the curves are subtle and organic, and the varied heights of the "fins" at the top give the tower a dynamic, yet refined crown. I think this is Gehry's best skyscraper design yet (though I did like his never-built proposal for the NY Times building).

As for the shorter building, yes, it is a bit more squat, but that's okay. If we lose the LA County Courthouse, you'll have better views of the signature building from lower in the planned park. Besides, it's really not that much of a change from the original model in terms of height. Now the devil will be in the details...

I liked his proposal for the NY Times building as well. It looked liked a rolled up newspaper.

And I'm loving the new Gehry tower. It looks almost feminine. The base is very interesting in it's panels of overlapping glass. I'm very eager to see how this plays out in reality.

The shorter tower will be Gehryfied I'm sure.

http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2007-02/27900603.gif

[cava]

The new Gehry Tower 1 is really remarkable - it is much more distinct than it was before, and the curved surfaces nicely reflect the curves of Disney Hall - but in a less pronounced way. The new design is "iconic" and along with DH will become a landmark.

LAB - thanks for re-posting your letter about opening up the park area - you are absolutely right-on (as you mostly are on this site). It is nice to see what i consider to be obvious ideas, presented in such an eloquent, well reasoned letter. I do hope you sent or will send this letter, to other supervisors, the park design team, and other city officials, as it can only strengthen the resolve and commitment of those who already understand this, or enlighten others who dont quite get it yet.

And praise to Jan Perry and others involved in securing the projects many progressive initiatives like the local jobs training component, the living wage provision, and the affordable housing. These address local issues, involve the community, and promote diversity in really innovative ways. There is a lot of excitement now that this has passed. Some like Antonovich are incapable of ever getting it, but for those who do, and those that can, I hope that this momentum we now have continues.

It would be nice to get that "art-house" theater back in the mix.
Colemonkee - you said "Actually, the Regal Theater at LA Live was one of the chief reasons why Related stopped pursuing the theater option for Grand Ave. That and they mentioned that the costs of construction could not pencil out for a theater in their project specifically."
But I think a Laemmle, or like, would attract a different crowd than LALives Regal chain, and would help further differentiate and brand the project as having a greater arts and cultural focus.

[cava]

http://images.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/banana.gif

[LAMetroGuy]

Just for comparison sake... here are examples of other Gehry designed towers:

http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2007-02/27900603.gifhttp://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/past_exhibitions/gehry/images/projects/projects_images/ny_times13_lg.jpghttp://miragestudio7.com/blog/images/frank_gehry_Bruce_Ratner.jpg

[LongBeachUrbanist]

It would be nice to get that "art-house" theater back in the mix.
Colemonkee - you said "Actually, the Regal Theater at LA Live was one of the chief reasons why Related stopped pursuing the theater option for Grand Ave. That and they mentioned that the costs of construction could not pencil out for a theater in their project specifically."
But I think a Laemmle, or like, would attract a different crowd than LALives Regal chain, and would help further differentiate and brand the project as having a greater arts and cultural focus.

I like to think that the Linda Lei will become an art-film theatre. It's well-positioned a couple of blocks down, between the Grand Avenue Project and Little Tokyo. (If only Medallion and Block 8 would get off the ground!!!)

I actually prefer that the Grand Avenue Project not include everything. To me, the idea of the project is to create an attraction that acts as a catalyst, spurring more development nearby. If, on the other hand, it is self-contained and fulfills all needs, then it becomes nothing more than a Grove. Which is OK except that it fails top address the bigger problem, which is a Downtown that is car-oriented and filled with isolated neighborhoods.

[POLA]

Block 8 is breaking ground this summer! As early as May!

[LAMetroGuy]

How did you find this out???

[RAlossi]

Somehow we missed it a couple weeks ago, but this was from the Garment & Citizen (I just googled "Block 8" and "Little tokyo")

Related Cos. Adds ‘Affordable’ Units to Little Tokyo Plan
Publish Date : 01/26/2007
The Related Companies of California plans to include more than 40 apartments for lease at rates within the budget of low-income renters as part of a development expected to begin taking shape on one of the last open parcels of land in the Little Tokyo district on Downtown’s northeastern edge.

Affordable housing units are typically set aside for tenants who make 60% or less of the median annual income in the region. The current median income for a family of four is approximately $69,000 a year. The standard is approximately $49,500 for individuals. That means that families with annual household income of approximately $41,000 or less—and individuals who make $30,000 or less a year—might qualify for the affordable units.

A total of approximately 230 apartment units—with 20% of them set aside as affordable—will account for a portion of the Related Cos. plans for the parcel of land known as Block 8 and bounded by 2nd Street on the north, San Pedro Street on the east, and Los Angeles street on the west. The parcel extends southward toward 3rd Street, where the Teramachi senior citizen’s housing complex is nearly completed and the Casa Heiwa low-income development has long been in place. The apartments are expected to be constructed on the San Pedro Street side, about halfway between 2nd Street and 3rd Street.

Related Cos. plans to build three market-rate condominium buildings on the northern portion of the parcel. The condominium developments would include ground-floor retail and parking for residents, as well as a 600-space public parking garage to replace the flat-surface parking currently available on the site.

Plans call for a building at 2nd and Los Angeles streets to rise approximately five stories and include 95 condominium units, according to the developer. Another building farther south on Los Angeles Street will also be approximately five stories tall, and include 175 condominium units. The plans call for a structure as high as 22 stories, with 195 more condominium units, at the corner of 2nd and San Pedro streets.

Related Cos. has been planning the project for several years, making various presentations to members of the Little Tokyo community along with way. The developer had stopped short of agreeing to provide any affordable units in its plans during initial phases. The preliminary plans did not include any public aid with financing, leaving Related Cos. free to forego any element of affordable housing.

Bill Witte, president of Related Cos.’ operations in California, said a recent review of financing for the project led the developer to opt for a $70 million bond issue that will be offered through the State of California. The Related Cos. will use proceeds from the sale of the bonds to help finance the project and will be liable for repayment of the notes, but the service of a public agency in issuing the bonds brings a requirement for affordable units into play.

Witte said he hopes to begin construction as early as April.

Related Cos.’ operations in California is no stranger affordable housing, and has included such an element in another project in Little Tokyo—a mixed-use development at 2nd Street and Central Avenue that preceded the Block 8 plans.

Bill Watanabe, executive director of the Little Tokyo Service Center—which operates the Casa Heiwa housing complex and had pushed from the start for affordable housing in the Related Cos.’ plan for Block 8—said he’s also pleased with the recent turn.

“We’ve endorsed it—we think it’s great,” Watanabe said.

[Carioca]

Is Related still doing this as well?

[RAlossi]

This is one of the most important projects for Little Tokyo right now. 2nd Street has so much potential with the exception of a couple blank walls facing the sidewalk (Caltrans, and the ass of the LA Times building) and parking lots (across from the LA Times building and this Block 8 site).

[citywatch]

Somehow we missed it a couple weeks ago, but this was from the Garment & Citizen (I just googled "Block 8" and "Little tokyo")Thanks for posting that article, which I'd otherwise never have come across. However, an update about that proj's possible start up date goes back even a bit earlier (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2592488&postcount=1249).

I'm surprised LAMG, who has a knack for finding material on the web hidden to or overlooked by everyone else, missed or forgot about this:


Then there is the Little Tokyo land known as Block 8, on Second Street between Los Angeles and San Pedro streets. Related Cos. previously purchased nearly the whole block and announced plans to build four towers. However, Witte said that three of the plots have been sold to other developers, including Kor Group. Related Cos. intends to break ground in April on a 230-unit apartment building.

[Carioca]

Since Related is doing both projects, it would be great to see lots of connection between the two. Street scaping, lighting, Gehry designed benches, banners...

[Bernd]

I'm in 100% absolute agreement that the County Administration and the Mosk Superior Court buildings are travesties that should be torn down to open the County Mall. The Law Library should go too. Same with the Hall of Records building. I can't see how the Hall of Records building can have any architectual significance. Its design is Mid 20th-Century Atrocity.

The Law Library and Hall of Records commit the biggest sin of all the buildings on the Mall; they completely turn their backs to the park and offer up nothing but sheer concrete walls. Naturally these no mans land dead areas are teeming with homeless, which helps destroy any use. What a disaster.

With that said, all of these buildings currently provide crucial city and county services. Everyone here says "tear 'em down." Well, where would you rebuild them? There's not a lot of space left in the Civic Center.

[Quixote]

Tear down the Los Angeles Mall and relocate the Latino Museum. Then divide the block into four lots and there you have room for four new buildings. That's how I would like to see development in South Park as well. I'm tired of these "centers." Blocks need to be divided in half so one building faces one street and one building faces the other street. Thankfully, the blocks in South Park ARE divided in half with alleys! This will create for a more dense, natural urban environment.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^^ Yes, inward-focused design has to go. Enough plazas already: let's focus on creating good streets.

And Bernd, I am 100% in favor of sacrificing the "LA Mall". I say, use half that land for a tower, and the other half for a small park. I'm pretty sure the tower could hold the County Supes and the County Courts.

Trust me, I'm not in general in favor of removing open space. But if it's a trade off between that open space and a wide-open, successful Grand Square Park (i.e., park associated with the Grand Avenue Project), I say go for it.

[Steve2726]

I can't see how the Hall of Records building can have any architectual significance. Its design is Mid 20th-Century Atrocity.

The Law Library and Hall of Records commit the biggest sin of all the buildings on the Mall; they completely turn their backs to the park and offer up nothing but sheer concrete walls.


I agree, but the Hall of Records was designed by Richard Neutra so you can expect a battle with preservationists if any attempt is made to knock it down.

http://www.you-are-here.com/los_angeles/hall_of_records.html

[LAMetroGuy]

Well if UCI can knock down a Fran Gehry building, we can knock down that ugly Hall of Records building.

[colemonkee]

I'm probably in the vast minority here in that I like the County Hall of Records building, or at least parts of it. I do agree that the blank concrete wall is an eyesore and should be fixed, along with opening the building back up to the park, but the facade detail in the glass and metal sections is very well executed.

As for where to move the displaced County/City services, there are two very viable options: 1) the office space planned for Phase 2 of the Grand Ave. development and 2) the space that will most likely be vacated by tearing down the old Parker Center. Jan Perry has already requested a study for tearing down the Parker Center and rebuilding a City/County office building on the site.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Wow! When did Perry bring that up? Recently?

[colemonkee]

^ About a month or two ago when there was all the hubub about the runup in budget on building the new LAPD Headquarters.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

This is fantastic! Then there really is a realistic chance that those buildings may eventually be voluntarily dismantled within the next 7-10 years. Then again, they may involuntarily come down if the next big one comes, which I'm sure is the strongest case in favor for us park lovers. :)

[RAlossi]

Speaking of the county buildings and Parker Center, does anyone know what will happen to that very large parcel east of Alameda where the new police HQ was supposed to go before the parcel across from the Higgins?

[colemonkee]

^ I believe part of that parcel is already being taken up by an under construction jail facility for the city.

[LAMetroGuy]

I saw construction on or around Parker Center, what's that all about?

[RAlossi]

^^ How many damn jails are we going to have in Downtown!!?? jesus christ!

There's men's central jail, metro detention center, the new facility at Parker Center, and then another new facility next to the previous location of the new police HQ?

EDIT: Maybe i was misunderstood... i'm talking about the large open parcel north of 1st and east of Alameda. That's where the police HQ was supposed to go but was not placed there because of objections from the temple

[RAlossi]

I saw construction on or around Parker Center, what's that all about?

That's a women's detention center, I believe.

[citywatch]

Its design is Mid 20th-Century Atrocity.
That bldg is pretty bad, but because there's still so much of this around, surrounding projs like Elleven/Evo/Luma or just a short walk away from the new Edison club & the Higgins bldg, or across Olympic Bl from the LA Live site, I have a bigger problem with it:


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/44401372_e376b546ef.jpg?v=0

[bobcat]

More in Store for Grand Avenue?
By DANIEL MILLER - 2/19/2007
Los Angeles Business Journal Staff

Although downtown Los Angeles now has more than 28,000 residents, there’s no traditional grocery in sight – which boosters have long decried as a brake on development.
But now a long-delayed upscale Ralphs is finally set to open in June, and the developer of the massive Grand Avenue project is in talks to bring a second market downtown. There’s even talk of a third market, although developerswould not confirm that.

Related Cos. is currently negotiating with several different companies for a market in the first phase of its $2 billion Grand Avenue project, which received crucial approval last week from the City Council.

That second market is slated for a pad of up to 50,000 square feet at First and Olive streets, at the east end of the development. Bill Witte, president of Related of California, a unit of New York City-based Related, said negotiations are underway with several grocers.

“We are looking for a grocer experienced in dealing with an urban market,” said Witte, who added the area should easily be able to support two markets. “The more things that happen downtown the better.”

One downtown real estate expert said that Whole Foods Market Inc. is a likely candidate for the Grand Avenue market because Related worked with that company to bring a Whole Foods store to its Columbus Circle development in New York City. Witte declined to comment, saying Related is still “early in the process” of negotiations.

The Grand Avenue project is expected to open in 2011. It will feature residential units, office space and entertainment and cultural attractions.

The news of the grocery talks comes as the much-delayed Ralphs Fresh Fare finally appears close to opening, after numerous delays that made some doubt the project ever would come to fruition. Long championed as a key part of downtown’s revival, that supermarket is being built in the burgeoning South Park area.

The 50,000-square-foot supermarket is in the ground floor of Market Lofts at Ninth and Flower streets. The building includes 267 for-sale units and is being developed by CIM Group Inc. and Lee Homes Inc.

City Councilwoman Jan Perry, whose district includes much of downtown, said she was “thrilled” that the area looks in line to get another grocery store on the heels of the Ralphs.

“It means that there is enough (economic) activity that this area can truly support more than one grocery store,” Perry said.

Market economics

The lack of a downtown market has much to do with the fact that supermarket chains did not believe there were enough residents to support one.

In a classic Catch 22, the lack of a grocery store is believed to have kept potential residents from moving downtown.

Shoppers can find fresh food downtown at the open-air Grand Central Market, a weekly farmers market, and a few small specialty grocers. However, in order to shop at a full-service grocery store they have to travel to Silverlake, Wilshire Center or a Food 4 Less store that’s just west of the Harbor (110) Freeway on Hoover Street.

But downtown has seen an explosion of residential development over the last several years, and now at least one economist believes it can easily support two supermarkets.

Jack Kyser, chief economist of the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp., made that case at the Central City Association’s annual downtown economic forecast on Feb. 13. He said that 15,000 residents can support a supermarket and downtown currently has 28,900 residents.

Kyser predicted that in about four years the population in the area will easily balloon to 40,000 residents, making it possible to support three supermarkets. “I think the psyche of downtown is going to be vastly improved with the opening of Ralphs,” said Kyser. “People will say, ‘Hey, we have a supermarket!’ It will be great – downtown has arrived.”

A third market could be in the works. Moinian Group, another New York-based developer, is building a condo tower across from Staples Center and wants to put a supermarket on the ground floor of its project, according to downtown real estate industry sources.

The development at the corner of Figueroa and 11th streets is entitled for 700 residential units and 250,000 square feet of retail space. Sources say 50,000 square feet of that space would be set aside for the market that would likely be high end, such as a Gelson’s or Bristol Farms. Both markets are competitors to Fresh Fare, a high-end up version of a traditional Ralphs.

Officials with Moinian did not return calls seeking comment.


Interior construction

A variety of delays forced the stall of the Ralphs store for several years. Originally slated to open in spring 2005, the project was put on hold as the changing real estate market and rising construction costs slowed development.

John Given, principal at CIM handling the project, said Market Lofts was originally slated to be a 319-unit rental building, but as the real estate market changed it made sense to make it a condominium project.

“We went through quite a bit of effort to make it work as a rental then we decided to make it condos,” Given said.

Additionally, construction costs spiked by about 60 percent in 2003, forcing the project to be redrawn, said Jeff Lee, a principal of Lee Homes. “I would say some of the delays were that everything got so expensive to build. It had to be changed.”

Since the development has been delayed so often in the past, some in the downtown community have speculated that the project will not meet its latest targeted opening date. But now the development has turned the corner, and Ralphs is now doing its own construction of the interior space.

Terry O’Neil, spokesman for Ralphs Grocery Co., a division of Ohio-based Kroger Co., said that this work could not be done until the condos and the building’s exterior work was virtually completed. He said the market has a firm June opening date.

“All of our construction was held off until condo construction was completed. We have not been able to do anything on our end and we’ve just started that,” O’Neil said.

Construction workers could be seen working inside the Ralphs store last week. It will open not far from a Ralphs grocery store that opened in 1873 at the corner of Sixth and Spring streets – the very first grocery store in the city.

Given said that if the other downtown markets open when they are projected to, there will be enough business for all.

“I don’t think it is a question of competition, it’s a reflection of the success of downtown,” he said.

[Chase Unperson]

Does L.A. need another downtown?
Grand Avenue may be an improvement, but the city already has several vibrant cores.
March 1, 2007

DON'T HATE ME, Eli Broad. I'm just asking the question here: Do we really need a new downtown?

By which I mean a premeditated "center," a ready-made downtown, the kind that the city and county of Los Angeles officially sealed with big smoochy votes that greenlighted the Grand Avenue project on the day before Valentine's Day, an edificial sweetheart deal to create a once-and-for-all heart of the city.

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Isn't that heart beating already? At least a couple of chambers' worth? We have the Latino shopping downtown; the Little Tokyo downtown; the arts downtown of the Diz and MOCA; the historic, lofty downtown; the '60s redevelopment/skyscraper downtown; the Staples/L.A. Live/Convention Center downtown.

Tom Gilmore, the developer who has done much good, and I hope has also done well administering some of the civic CPR that's revived the historic downtown, told me he believes that "downtown is and should be plural. I'm concerned that the city will focus all of its energy on the marquee projects and forget about the bread-and-butter development happening throughout downtown." Like chemotherapy, he thinks, if the Grand Avenue project doesn't kill downtown, it will make us better.

Look — and I don't often ask this of Angelenos — at New York City. Where is its downtown, its center? Wall Street? Central Park? Soho? Nobody could tell you where the heart of New York City is. Why insist on something different from L.A.? We're way past having to choose between a Stepford CityWalk downtown and a step-over-the-urine skid row downtown.

The unanimous vote of the City Council, and the votes of all but one of the county supervisors, handed over a civic candy box to the Grand Avenue developers. The bonbons included public land leased for private, commercial use, along with a rich, creamy filling of tax breaks (please don't tell former Councilman Joel Wachs, it'd break his frugal heart) of disputed degrees of largesse — from a low-ball $40 million to the city analyst's $66 million — over 20 years.

What we get for this, over time, is a mixed-use model of glam, spanking-new buildings and vistas along the old Bunker Hill spine — including two Frank Gehry towers, one with 1,000 condos (one in five of them low income) and one for a five-star hotel chain whose ads show moguls and movie stars looking relaxed and pampered; in all, about 80 vertical acres of development.

From Grand Avenue, a 16-acre park will tumble down from the hilltop to City Hall, an area that is now a dispiriting tier of government blocks occupied by a desolate "civic plaza" of flagpoles, a forlorn Starbucks and parking lots. I imagine something like the Mall in Washington — but I worry that the developers are imagining something like a mall in Tarzana.

Grand Avenue is really a re-re-re-redevelopment, which began many decades ago when Bunker Hill went from swank to rank. They shaved off the hilltop in the 1960s and built the Music Center, and that was supposed to be the new heart and soul of downtown.

What's a downtown for, anyway? It's usually a place where people can get and do what they can't get and do elsewhere in the city. In the 1920s, thousands of electric cars left downtown every day for the suburban reaches of Southern California, bringing people from Riverside and Long Beach to shops and entertainment they couldn't find in their own burgs.

Now they can, of course. Big-screen TVs and iPods create audiences of one. And nearly every suburban city and neighborhood replicates the chain-store commerce of the next one, which proves that, like certain actresses and the Botox needle, the risk lies in too much as well as in too little. No one is going to travel from the San Fernando Valley to 1st Street for the same Pottery Barn experience that's available 10 blocks from home. If you've seen one Gap….

Downtowns are made by demography more than by geography. Someone once said — oh wait, it was me — that L.A.'s essential character has always been suburban, back to the days of missions and land-grant ranchos. What was a rancho but a mini-suburb, a self-sustaining townlet feeding and entertaining and supporting itself? A man could ride from rancho to rancho then, as he drives the freeways today from Chatsworth to Whittier, without bothering too much about what lies in between.

The day I knew to a dead-bang certainty that downtown was already back was when I was crossing a street on the way to a restaurant. Walking toward me, in the crosswalk, was a couple with skis over their shoulders and ski boots in hand. I looked around for the cameras that had to be shooting a chewing gum or beer commercial — that's a lot of what downtown has been for ages, Hollywood's ready-made back lot.

No cameras. I had to ask them: "Were you … are you … do you?"

Yep, they said. We've been skiing. And we're coming back home. To downtown.

[bobcat]

Grand Avenue Officials Say Mosk Courthouse Not Part of Plan
New building would add up to $900 million to development costs

http://www.carealestatejournal.com/newswire/index.cfm?sid=&tkn=&eid=884885&evid=1

By Rebecca Beyer
Daily Journal Staff Writer

According to its backers, the massive Grand Avenue Project that will reshape a chunk of downtown is now on a fast track.
And it does not include the aging, potentially unsafe Stanley Mosk civil courthouse.

Los Angeles County Superior Court, like other county court systems across the state, is stuck between its current owner and its future owner.
And plans for the court's facilities are stuck, as well.

Three-quarters of the courthouses across the state do not meet seismic standards. Stanley Mosk is one example of those. And so, although court, county and state officials agree that the building needs to be replaced, no one has offered a plan to get the job done.

Enter the Grand Avenue Project.
The downtown revitalization effort includes improvements to the 16-acre park that begins between the Stanley Mosk Courthouse and the county's Hall of Administration.

Some court and state officials have said the buildings will be demolished for more green space, as part of a plan to replace the 50-year-old civil courthouse.
But officials charged with implementing the Grand Avenue Project recently told Los Angeles County Superior Court judges that the project does not include plans for Mosk.
They also said they would welcome a meeting with court officials about the courthouse's future.

Antonia Hernández, the Grand Avenue Committee's vice chair, told judges at a Feb. 23 judicial education conference to take the initiative regarding the plans for their facility.
In response, Los Angeles County Superior Court spokesman Allan Parachini said the court is powerless in negotiations about its future. Los Angeles County, like counties statewide, is transferring its courts to the state.

Therefore, any talks about Mosk, Parachini said, need to take place between the county and the state's Administrative Office of the Courts.
Those officials declined comment.

So, despite rumors of the building's demise, which have escalated since city and county approval of the $2 billion Grand Avenue Project in February, Mosk isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
With a hundred courtrooms, the facility is the state's largest court in the nation's largest trial-court system.

According to Parachini, besides being "not state of the art" in terms of security, capacity and efficiency, the building is rated a Category 3 on the state's seismic scale. In a significant earthquake, the building would sustain damage that might make it uninhabitable.

Parachini estimated the building would cost between $700 million and $900 million to replace.
But officials seem to have reached an impasse on Mosk's future. Sources said the county, which owns the building, has no incentive to pour money into a building it is about to transfer to the state. Until the state takes control, it has no power to issue plans for the courthouse.
Replacing Mosk is a long-term goal, said Michele Vercoutere, an assistant division chief in the facilities and asset management branch of the county's chief administrative office.

The state's 451 county courts are supposed to transfer to the state by June 30. Both county and state officials acknowledge that deadline won't be met.
Until the court facilities transfer, county governments are responsible for their maintenance and repair. Los Angeles County has yet to transfer any court buildings. Thirty have transferred statewide. When Mosk transfers from the county, the building, the land it sits on and the land surrounding it will belong to the state.

At the continuing judicial education conference, Hernández told the judges she would be happy to meet with them to discuss the committee's ideas, which she said could include public-private partnerships or land swaps, and she said the project's developer, Related Cos., was also "amenable."

'Get It Together'
But she put the initiative on the judiciary.
"From a real estate perspective, [this project] is on a fast track," said Hernández, who is married to Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael L. Stern, who is based in the downtown court. "If the judges don't organize and get it together, this track is going to leave you behind."

Leaders of the Grand Avenue Committee, including Hernández, were unavailable for comment after the judicial conference, and a spokeswoman for the group referred calls on the matter to the county.

Hernández's statements at the judicial conference contradicted earlier statements by court and state officials, who have suggested that tearing down the Mosk courthouse may be linked to the Grand Avenue Project.
The fall issue of Gavel to Gavel, the Los Angeles County Superior Court magazine, included before-and-after pictures of the Civic Center without Stanley Mosk.
An article in the same issue, written by Judge William A. MacLaughlin, the court's immediate past presiding judge, said that the area "lends itself easily to the vision of the Grand Avenue Committee in which, someday comparatively soon, the Kenneth Hahn Hall of Administration and the Stanley Mosk Courthouse will be gone."

In November, Kim Davis, the director of the Office of Court Construction and Management for the Administrative Office of the Courts, said that state judiciary officials in Los Angeles would like to discuss with Grand Avenue authorities the possibility of replacing Mosk but that no talks had occurred.
And, at the Association of Southern California Defense Counsel's annual seminar in February, the court's new presiding judge, J. Stephen Czuleger, spoke at a session titled "Where-O-Where is the Los Angeles Superior Court?" Czuleger said the title was a "tongue-in-cheek" reference to a plan to move Mosk elsewhere.

Judges have a "high level of concern" about the plans for the court, MacLaughlin said.
"Apparently, it is the county's intention that this courthouse would be eliminated, and it would have to be replaced," he said. "Replacing this courthouse would be quite a task."

MacLaughlin said he has been in touch with the Administrative Office of the Courts and the county. Though neither office has provided him with definitive answers, he said he did not fault either agency.
"The discussions about the transfer of facilities here in Los Angeles have not progressed to the point where definitive solutions would be required," he said.

MacLaughlin said judges had not been included in any of the talks among the county, the state and the Grand Avenue Committee.
Ronald G. Overholt, the chief deputy director of the Administrative Office of the Court, said his "understanding from the county" was that the Grand Avenue Project included plans for both Mosk and the Hall of Administration to be destroyed for park space.

Hernández told judges that the project's primary financier, Eli Broad, had spoken to the Judicial Council's chair, Chief Justice Ronald M. George, about Mosk. She did not give details and said those conversations were only preliminary contacts.
George was unavailable for comment, and a spokeswoman did not respond to questions about what such discussions entailed.
"I'm going to be very honest with you," Hernández told the judges. "Eli is not going to fund this. It's just not going to happen."

Hernández acknowledged that there are smaller courthouses in worse shape than Mosk - seismically challenged Long Beach is at the top of the county and state priority list for replacement - but told the judges that the Grand Avenue Project was an opportunity to do something about the downtown court.

Thomas V. Girardi, of Los Angeles' Girardi & Keese and a State Bar representative on the state's Judicial Council, said he thinks the rumors surrounding Mosk are "purposefully vague."
"This is the guy who goes on a date with a beautiful, intelligent woman and interprets her smile when they leave as a promise for their next date," he said, describing the situation, laughing.

But Girardi added that "the odds are high that, in a downstream negotiation," something might be done in the form of a public-private partnership with the Grand Avenue Project.
"Obviously, it's an issue," he said. "The courts have need of a new facility, and the parcel of land the current facility is on is worth much more in some other fashion than it is as a courthouse."
Vercoutere said the county would consider a public-private partnership such as a land swap and had discussed such a possibility in Long Beach.
She said the idea that the county has no incentive to replace or greatly renovate Mosk because it will be transferred eventually to the state was "a very simple way of saying something that has more complexity."
"There is no funding at the local or state level to respond to such an incredibly expensive rebuild of a building," Vercoutere said. "We're biding our time until [Mosk] comes to the top of our list for things that need to be done."

The Grand Avenue Project does include plans for the county supervisors' headquarters, the Hall of Administration.
Hernández told judges the county has tentatively reserved office space - reportedly at a cost of $221 million - in the project's third phase, scheduled to begin in March 2014.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

Imperial_Teen, why all the sudden hostility to Downtown L.A.?

(Note: I have to assume that the opinions you are posting are your own, since you didn't quote or otherwise attribute the quote to someone else.)

[Wright Concept]

LBU, I remember that editorial. Patt Morrison from the LA Times wrote it.

[LAMetroGuy]

edit - thanks cole!

[colemonkee]

I think you meant to put this in the LA Live thread?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

It is music to my ears that there seems to be a substantial force behind the removal of the two abominations being the county buildings! Not only are they seismically unsafe, but if Los Angeles is truly serious about its future on the global stage as a "city on the rise," it must evolve AWAY from world-class private enclaves, and TOWARD world-class public spaces. I think we can all agree that public spaces are what make great cities superior. Human interaction on a larger scale, not confined to just contrived spaces (like City Walk or the Grove), are essential to a wonderful urban experience. Downtown LA (and eventually all of Wilshire Blvd.) has the potential to really become the meeting ground of the VAST diversity that Los Angeles and the rest of Southern California offers. As mass transit expands and public areas are improved and enhanced to cater to pedestrians, Los Angeles will finally grow into what it was meant to become...a great city! :)

[LAMetroGuy]

With L.A. City, County Approvals, Grand Avenue Project Proceeds
One of L.A.'s most complex and crucial developments has come a step closer to reality, according to Related President Bill Witte.

Formal approval last month of Related Company’s Grand Avenue Project by both the city and county of Los Angeles offers further evidence that a renaissance is well under-way in Downtown L.A. The $2.1 billion dollar mixed use development will include residences, a hotel, retail, and a park in the heart of Downtown. The project will sit on publicly owned land, evolves from years of planning and an elaborate web of approvals and subsidies. TPR was pleased to speak with Bill Witte, president of Related Cos. of California, about the plan and the civic effort to gain broad popular and political support.

Published Thursday March 22, 2007

We do this interview days after both the Los Angeles City Council and the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted to approve Related’s Grand Avenue Project. What exactly did they approve?

They signed off on a series of documents, the most fundamental of which were the environmental impact report and the development and disposition agreement (DDA). They focus on the first of the project’s three phases—although it covers, broadly, all three phases.

The first phase covers essentially one city block between Grand and Olive and First and Second streets opposite Disney Hall. It includes two towers with 400 market-rate condominiums, 100 low-income rental units (20 percent of the total), a 275-room five star hotel (which will be a Mandarin Oriental), roughly 250,000 square feet of retail and commercial space (which include a market, a book store, six or seven restaurants, a food court, and some additional retail space), a health club, a catering and events facility, and a 1,400-car parking garage, of which roughly 800 spaces will be available to the public.

The Grand Avenue Project will be built in phases. How does the city and county approvals affect Phases II and III?


Anyone have access to this article? I would like to read the entire thing!

http://www.planningreport.com/tpr/?module=displaystory&story_id=1228&format=html

[bobcat]

I signed up for a free copy (http://www.planningreport.com/tpr/email/) of The Planning Report and just received it. The article doesn't contain any information that hasn't been discussed in numerous other articles and if anyone was thinking of spending $8 for it I'd strongly advise saving your money.

[bobcat]

duplicate

[citywatch]

Even getting rid of deadzone parking lots sometimes can arouse feelings of NIMBYism :gaah:

Dates to remember: the "tinker toy" parking structure across from Disney Hall is supposed to be torn down, or at least closed, about 6 months from today. "Lot 11" is the surface parking lot directly east of "tinker toy", south of 1st, between Olive & Hill, & is supposed to close over around 15 months from today.

Of course, the original plans called for lot 17 to be removed as early as Dec 2006. But better late than never.


Downtown L.A. Development Will Take Over Court Parking Lots

Issues of ADA accessibility raised in Grand Avenue design

By Rebecca Beyer
Daily Journal Staff Writer
APRIL 16, 2007

As public officials celebrated approval of the massive $2 billion Grand Avenue Project in downtown Los Angeles, court officials grappled with the loss of hundreds of parking spaces for prosecutors, public defenders, clerical staff and jurors. The initial plans for the project require closure of two parking facilities that the courts rely on - one adjacent to the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center, known as Lot 11, and the other near the Stanley Mosk civil court, known as the "erector set," or Lot 17.

Some people who park in Lot 11 said they had heard it was planned for closure in March or April for construction to begin on the revitalization project. County officials denied that timetable. Officials said that only the primary juror parking lot, the erector set - at 1st and Olive streets - was due to be closed in April and that Lot 11 was never scheduled to close that soon.

County-owned Lot 17 is scheduled to close around Oct. 1, and Lot 11, owned jointly by the county and state, is tentatively scheduled to close in July 2009, according to Santos Kreimann, a principal analyst in the county chief administrative office who is working on the Grand Avenue Project. A prominent criminal defense attorney said he and dozens of others who work in the courts had heard otherwise. Charles L. Lindner said 50 prosecutors, public defenders, private attorneys, clerks, court reporters and even judges had approached him about Lot 11, which they had heard was scheduled for destruction April 1.

"These rumors don't go out without some foundation," he said.

Lindner, who is mobility-impaired, has battled the county over handicapped access to the courts. In 1991, he sued the county in federal court to bring the criminal courts building into compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. As part of the county's settlement with Lindner, it undertook a $2.7 million "retrofit" of the building to create a ramp from the parking lot to the south entrance. The federal act mandates that governments make their courts and other public buildings accessible.

Lindner expressed concern that Lot 11's closure will eliminate handicapped access to the criminal courts downtown. "Put simply, the only thing that would make the building more handicapped-inaccessible would be installing a moat," he wrote in a letter to City Councilman Bill Rosendahl of the 11th District.

Sandi Gibbons, the public information officer for the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, said that she parks in Lot 11 and had been informed last year that the lot would be closed in March 2007. She said she believes her office had been notified by the county's chief administrative office of that date.

"I had heard initially of an April closing date and then October," said Judge Steven R. Van Sicklen, the supervising judge of the criminal court, about Lot 11. "But those were just rumors. It wasn't from anyone who really knew." Van Sicklen said he was concerned about access to the building, but that he was sure that the county would make whatever accommodations were necessary for the disabled. "I don't think they would leave that hole open," he said.

Robert Kalunian, the chief deputy public defender of Los Angeles County, said his office had received information six months ago that Lot 11 would be closed in April but had received no information since then. A representative from Five Star Parking, which operates Lot 11 and Lot 17, said that the company had received no official notice from the county about an April closing for Lot 11.

In his letter, Lindner argued that closing Lot 11 without plans for keeping the courts accessible to the disabled would be "inviting litigation that [the city] would surely lose and constitute a significant cost to the municipal coffers." Lindner said he sent his letter to Rosendahl and County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky of the 3rd District. Lindner said that no plans have been made for maintaining accessibility to the building. "I am a disabled lawyer, and it turns out that they have paid no attention to what they are going to do with disabled people," he said.

Rosendahl said he had taken steps at the City Council's meeting on Feb. 12 to ensure that plans would be made to keep the building accessible. "I read the letter into the record and said there are issues here that need to be addressed," he said. He added that he copied the letter for other council members and Eli Broad, the Grand Avenue Project's main financial backer.

Rosendahl said he instructed the council's chief legislative analyst to incorporate the issue of accessibility into the plans. "I'm very optimistic that all parties who are appropriate to the mix were brought into the loop, and it's now a part of the record and a part of the strategy," he said.

Lindner said he was pleased that the council took the matter seriously. He said Rosendahl called him at home to say that "to the extent that the city, Broad and the Community Redevelopment Agency are concerned, the handicapped parking wasn't going to disappear, which means [Lot] 11 won't disappear until this thing is adjusted."

A spokesman for Yaroslavsky referred calls about the lots to the office of the county's chief administrative officer, David E. Janssen. "The project is committed to meeting all the various ADA requirements," said Kreimann, the county analyst on the project. "We're not going to walk away and not provide [the disabled] access."

[b]Forward Progress

Lot 17 will close in October 2007 when the project breaks ground on a mixed-use residential and retail development at 1st Street and Grand Avenue. Kreimann said 700 jurors park in the lot daily. He said Lot 11 would give way for construction of a 16-acre park but not before July 2009. About 159 county employees park there daily.

"You can't stand in the way of progress," said Allan Parachini, a spokesman for the court. "Downtown is changing, and all of us who work downtown simply have to recognize that, and we will adjust accordingly."

Los Angeles County Supervisor Gloria Molina, of the 1st District, who serves as chair of the Grand Avenue Authority, said at the board's Feb. 12 meeting that the Grand Avenue Project, which involves a 99-year lease of public land to a private developer, Related Cos., would be "a model throughout downtown." Her deputy chief of staff, Gerry Hertzberg, said that the parking lots, which are owned by the county and contracted out to private parking operators, were never meant to remain parking lots forever. "There have been different plans for the last 20 years for those sites," he said. "They were only lots because they are vacant space."

Hertzberg said jurors affected by the destruction of Lot 17, which will begin in October, would be allowed to park - free, as they do now - underneath Disney Hall. The closure of Lot 11 depends on approval for the project's green space, which will extend from Grand Avenue to Spring Street between 1st Street and Temple Street. Lot 10, the underground parking across the street from Lot 11, must be fully "rehabilitated" before the closure, according to Kreimann. Once that happens, Lot 10 will absorb those who park in Lot 11 now.

Kreimann said the four levels of Lot 10 are all open now although some spaces are closed for structural repairs. The lot has 660 spaces, he said, and Lot 11 has 350. He said in March the county would request funds from the Board of Supervisors to do "structural retrofit work" to fully open Lot 10. According to a letter dated Feb. 13 from Janssen to the supervisors, the lot's closure could cost the county $408,000 annually.

"We're very much aware of the parking need," Hertzberg said. "And we're also aware of the parking capacity. Day parkers or the public could go to any other lot in the area."

Parachini said the court's main concern with the closure of Lot 11 is that the parking lot is the location used by media satellite trucks. When his court first heard of an April closing date, he called to notify the Radio-Television News Directors Association to make sure all concerned parties were prepared. To have the lot closed for a high-profile trial, like the murder trial of music producer Phil Spector would be a crisis, he said. He said the delayed closure was a relief.

Parachini said that, even though the lot closures would not affect a substantial number of court employees, the court was doing its best to be prepared. "It appears that the juror problem is solvable," he said. "We freely concede that there are some looming inconveniences for lawyers, but we are occupants of county-owned buildings. The court has no property whatsoever, so it is not our decision to build or not to build, or when to close or when not to close."

[KeithLS]

http://www.keithschoenheit.com/number93.jpg

[citywatch]

^ That reminds me why I really dislike the current setup. The pic's angle makes the "tinker toy" parking structure look even worse, thanks in part to things like the wires & pole. It also shows why the current surroundings of Disney Hall have gotta go, go, go.

Start up all the bulldozers, ASAP, pls!

This doesn't really cover any new ground, but it's worth pointing out because it publicizes the Grand Ave proj to a non LA audience.


NY Times
In Los Angeles, a Gehry-Designed Awakening

By TERRY PRISTIN
April 18, 2007

LOS ANGELES — The influx of thousands of new residents has reinvigorated this city’s downtown in recent years, but most of the development has been clustered on its southern end, near the Staples Center, the sports and entertainment arena. For more than a decade, however, Eli Broad, a billionaire and civic leader, has envisioned a vibrant focal point for the city — “a place where people from all communities want to gather,” as he put it — on the opposite edge of downtown. That section, known as Bunker Hill, is home to some of the city’s leading cultural institutions and architecturally significant structures, but they are scattered amid a hodgepodge of unsightly parking lots and drab government buildings.

Now Related Urban, the division of the Related Companies that developed the massive Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle in Manhattan, is poised to try to fulfill Mr. Broad’s ambitions. By the end of the year, the company expects to begin demolition for the first phase of a $2.05 billion mixed-use project along Grand Avenue, opposite the Walt Disney Concert Hall. Designed by the concert hall’s architect, Frank Gehry, the Grand Avenue development will echo the Time Warner Center in some respects — the plans call for a five-star 275-room Mandarin Oriental Hotel, luxury condominiums, restaurants run by celebrity chefs and an upscale food market. But it is also expected to feature terraces and rooftop gardens to take advantage of the mild climate, the developers say.

Included in the $750 million first phase, which extends from First to Second Streets and reaches 35 feet from Grand Avenue to Olive Street, are 400 condominiums in two towers, 48 and 24 stories respectively, to be priced at around $1,000 a square foot or higher; 100 apartments devoted to families earning less than $35,000 a year; 284,000 square feet of retail space; and a 16-acre park linking the Music Center and City Hall to replace an unused swath of sloping green space near the government buildings.

As part of an agreement with community groups and public officials, Related Companies is to advance $50 million of its ground-lease rent toward the cost of the park. The agreement also requires Related and its tenants to meet specified hiring and wage goals and to set aside one-fifth of the units for low- and moderate-income residents. In exchange, officials have agreed to just under $100 million in subsidies, principally from hotel tax revenues, said William A. Witte, the president of Related California. The City Council and County Board of Supervisors recently gave their blessing to the project, and Mr. Gehry said he expects to complete the design in June.

Rather than compete with his concert hall, with its billowing stainless-steel walls, the glassy Grand Avenue development should play a “supporting role,” Mr. Gehry said, adding that “you don’t put a bunch of iconic buildings one next to the other.” With construction costs rising, the architect said he has had to “adjust the project to that reality” by, for example, searching for less-expensive materials. Unlike the planned Atlantic Yards development near downtown Brooklyn, which is Mr. Gehry’s other major urban project, Grand Avenue has engendered few fireworks. But some opponents maintain that subsidies are not justified for a project intended primarily for wealthy residents. They say the developer is already getting a break on the land.

Joel Kotkin, a Los Angeles resident and author of “The City: A Global History,” also argues that Los Angeles is a decentralized place with a number of lively downtowns, including Santa Monica, Pasadena and West Hollywood. In his view, the city would do better to nurture organic downtown neighborhoods, like its fashion district, “instead of replicating experiences you can get anywhere.”

But Mr. Broad said that piecemeal development of the city- and county-owned sites would have been a mistake. “I was fearful we would have unplanned development there that would create a mess,” he said. He also said that allowing the developer to define the project ensured that it would be economically workable. “You’ve got to find a developer that’s got the experience to make it work from a commercial point of view,” he said. “Without understanding what is going to work financially, you end up with no project.”

Since 1999, when the local zoning ordinance was changed to allow residential conversion of older office buildings, more than 1,500 units of housing have been built or are under construction downtown, said Carol E. Schatz, the president of the Los Angeles Downtown Center Business Improvement District. About 29,000 people live downtown, many of them young, well-paid single people who walk to work, according to a recent survey. They are also urban pioneers who are undaunted by the many homeless people who camp out downtown. The new residents are also willing to drive five miles or more to shop for groceries. In July, however, a long-awaited 50,500-square-foot Ralph’s Fresh Fare supermarket is to open at Ninth and Flower Streets, said Terry O’Neill, a spokesman for the chain.

For the first time in memory, a number of office tenants, including Perkins Coie, a law firm, and Psomas, an engineering firm, have been migrating from the West Side to downtown, where rents are cheaper, said H. Carl Muhlstein, an executive vice president at Cushman & Wakefield. These rents are rising, yet vacancies also increased last year, from 11.9 percent to 15.2 percent. Mr. Muhlstein attributed the rise in vacancies to the consolidation of the Los Angeles Unified School District’s headquarters and the merger of Sanwa Bank and Tokai Bank.

In addition to Grand Avenue, another megadevelopment is planned for downtown Los Angeles — a $2.5 billion entertainment and retail complex known as L.A. Live, which is under construction next to the Staples Center. Developed by the arena’s owner, AEG, it is expected to cater to sports and pop music fans and offer some of the flash of Times Square. The Related project, by contrast, is designed to appeal to older, more affluent residents, including international buyers and others seeking a downtown pied-à-terre offering hotel services and restaurants. “That’s something that L.A. hasn’t seen,” Mr. Witte said.

Related Companies has not announced any retail leases yet, although Kenneth A. Himmel, the chief executive of Related Urban, said two potential anchor tenants for the freestanding retail structures were talking with Mr. Gehry.

Rick J. Caruso, the developer of the Grove, the popular open-air retail and entertainment center near the Farmers Market at Third Street and Fairfax Avenue, said Related was unlikely to have a problem attracting a supermarket and other stores to serve its residents. But he said downtown might not be ready for larger retailers that need to draw from a large base of customers. “The jury is still out on the retail,” Mr. Caruso said.

The Grand Avenue project is getting started at a time when the market for high-end condos appears to be softening. In December, KB Homes withdrew from its partnership with AEG to build a 54-story hotel and condominium project at L.A. Live. A planned condominium tower designed by Thom Mayne at Broadway and 11th Street was shelved after it was unable to attract financing. And Standard Pacific Corporation abandoned plans to buy a new building near Union Station and sell its 272 units as condominiums. But Mr. Witte said projects that faltered were not in desirable locations. “The best-located projects are doing very well,” he said.

Victor B. MacFarlane, a managing principal of MacFarlane Partners, one of Related’s investment partners in Grand Avenue, said he was not worried about the market’s long-term prospects. “There’s no question that the condo market right now is softer,” he said. “But we believe that in two or three years it will be different. We believe that downtown L.A. is for real and not just a flash-in-the-pan trend.”

[AnotherPunter]

Why isn't this thread in the Project Proposals section? I had to do a search to find it... you all trying to hide LA's lights under a bushel?

[colemonkee]

^ That's a great question. I suppose we should move this thread to the Proposals section, or probably create a new one, and move the conversation there.

[bobcat]

Small article regarding the the project. The most interesting piece of info is in the last sentence, which confirms Related is trying to sign up Whole Foods along with Borders.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L.A. greenlights Grand project.(West).
Eugene Gilligan.
Commercial Property News 21.7 (April 1, 2007)

As part of its makeover, Downtown Los Angeles is having some more work done. In mid-February, the city council and county board of supervisors both approved the Grand Avenue Project, a $2 billion mixed-use development that will contain luxury for-sale residences, a hotel, retail space and restaurants.

The huge project will join the massive L.A. Live mixed-use center. The developers of both sites aim to transform Downtown Los Angeles into a vibrant 24/7 destination.

The centers, though, differ significantly. With a sports arena as its anchor and a convention center hotel as one of its signature properties, L.A. Live could be characterized as Times Square West, said Mark Tarczynski, senior vice president of urban redevelopment for CB Richard Ellis Inc. But the Grand Avenue Project, scheduled to break ground later this year, will set a different tone: Related Urban Development will build it around fine arts and performing arts venues like the Walt Disney Concert Hall.

Kenneth Himmel, president & CEO of Related Urban Development, remarked that the city's arts venues deserve Grand Avenue's top-shelf restaurants and quality retail space. "I can't think of another city that cries out more for this kind of mixed-use development," he said, noting that many of the city's signature cultural attractions are surrounded by parking lots. "Downtown L.A. is desperately underserved from a retail standpoint." Related Urban's parent, The Related Cos., is in negotiations to bring a Whole Foods Market and Borders bookstore to the development, Himmel said.

[citywatch]

Related Urban's parent, The Related Cos., is in negotiations to bring a Whole Foods Market and Borders bookstore to the development, Himmel said.It's ironic that trader joe's continues to be hesitant about entering DT, even though its smaller size & what I'd guess would be its lower sales volume requirements would make it a better fit for the hood than even Whole Foods. The latter is more of a full scale grocery store, with bigger depts for meat & produce, & so the big question is whether there are enough ppl in DT to support not just Ralphs but also another mkt several blocks to the north that is as expensive as WF is.

It seems like it wasn't that long ago that I thought the one good thing about all the delays in building the Ralphs mkt was that it would give more time for greater numbers of ppl to move to the hood. Now with WF possibly also entering the hood, the same idea applies as much today as it did before, if not more so. That's why I wish the 1st phase of the Grand Ave proj had something like at least 3000 new apts & condos. Better yet, 10,000 new apts & condos.

[bobcat]

You know, though, I was looking at the list of local Whole Foods locations (http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/list_CA-s.html) and this location has the potential to draw shoppers from a good distance away. Nearly all the current WF locations are located on the Westside or SFV. And while average incomes are lower in the SE section of the county, WF has enough of a following that it might be able to draw in a fair number of patrons from these areas that are currently unserved.

[LAMetroGuy]

Thomas P Cox has an updated rendering for Grand Avenue's project for Phase 2 and Phase 3 towers (not Frank Gehry's 47 and 25 story towers as part of the first phase).

I noticed that one of the residential towers slated for parcels L & M is taller than Frank's 47 story tower.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/rpulido/grandavephase2and3.jpg

[Steve2726]

Did Related Cos. hire them for this? I don't recall any announcement regarding design for phases 2 and 3.

[LAMetroGuy]

Like like they did, they list Related as the developer. I'm sure they don't do this for "free".

[LongBeachUrbanist]

They removed the new Colburn tower, probably to avoid obscuring the view of the project area.

[LAMetroGuy]

Yeah, als interesting that they added a spire to the tallest tower.

[DJM19]

I know its just an early rendering with no textures or anything, but it looks weird there, I hope its more sleek and less clunky.

[citywatch]

Board OKs Grand Design

Work could begin in fall

BY TROY ANDERSON, Staff Writer
LA Daily News, 06/19/2007

Anticipating a futuristic 48-story tower near the Walt Disney Concert Hall, Los Angeles County supervisors voted 4-1 Tuesday to approve schematic design drawings for the first phase of the $2 billion Grand Avenue project. Bill Witte, president of The Related Cos. of California, said the designs call for the tower to be designed by architect Frank Gehry and feature reflective, undulating glass. They also call for a second, 25-story tower with a more "sober, traditional design."

With approval of the drawings, construction on the project designed to transform the downtown skyline - and create a vibrant heart for the city with entertainment venues, restaurants, a hotel and a 16-acre park - is expected to begin in October.

"As you look at the model, you can see something that is very dynamic," Supervisor Gloria Molina said. "There is no other area in downtown like this."

Supporters of the project say it will revitalize downtown with 3.6 million square feet of development, including more than 2,000 condominiums and retail stores. But Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich has repeatedly voted against the project, estimating $176 million in tax breaks and subsidies will be needed.

Tuesday, Antonovich questioned Witte about clashes between the architect and developer over the designs, why no bookstore or supermarket had signed up to lease space, whether potential glare from the buildings had been addressed and how officials will address concerns by court officials over the lack of parking. Witte said he's never worked on a project where architects didn't clash with developers. "Not only has it not hindered us, but the end product is probably much better because of the back and forth," Witte said.

It's still too early in the process for major retailers like bookstores and grocery stores to sign letters of intent to lease space, he added. And he said the firm that conducted a glare study on Disney Hall is studying the best materials to use on the towers to reduce reflections from the sun.

Antonovich said downtown parking for court workers and jurors was not enough. This could result, he said, in jurors having to park farther away and causing trial delays. "We are talking about people who are not necessarily active members at the neighborhood gym, and considering the type of geography this facility is located on in the hills, it's not convenient for some of the older people," he said.

He also raised concerns that court officials have no plans to replace the Stanley Mosk Courthouse, located between the proposed 16-acre park and the county Hall of Administration. Chief Executive Officer David Janssen said replacing the courthouse would cost $700 million to $800 million, but it's not on a state priority list.

"The cost to replace the courthouse and county hall will exceed $1 billion," Antonovich said.

Janssen said the county has set aside $100 million to replace the county hall. A location for the new county hall could be the existing Court of Flags off Hill Street. The supervisors have until next summer to decide whether to replace the hall, which was damaged in the Northridge Earthquake.

[LAMetroGuy]

From the Grand Avenue Committee website:

Posted July 27, 2007 APPROVAL OF PHASE I SCHEMATIC DESIGN

The Schematic Design package submitted by The Related Companies and their architect, Gehry Partners, was approved by the Los Angeles Grand Avenue Authority, the Community Redevelopment Agency, and the County Board of Supervisors in mid-June. These approvals allow the project to advance into the Design Development phase, which should be completed in the fall of 2007.

Phase I includes the development of Parcel Q, which is directly across Grand Avenue from the Walt Disney Concert Hall. The scope of development on this site includes: 500 units of housing (100 of which are affordable housing), a 275-room Mandarin Oriental Hotel, and 285,000 square feet of retail space. Over 1500 parking spaces will be located below ground. Retail uses are expected to include an urban grocery, a health club, a large book and music store, seven to eight restaurants, and other uses.

Schematic Design for the Civic Park, which is also part of Phase I, is underway and is expected to be completed in the fall of 2007. The Civic Park stretches from Grand Avenue, at the top of Bunker Hill, to Spring Street at the bottom of the Hill. The scope of work for the park includes extending the existing park area to City Hall and improving and upgrading the existing sections of park to meet a variety of needs of downtown residents, office workers, and tourists.

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_01.jpg http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_03.jpg http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_02.jpg

Posted July 27, 2007

GRAND AVENUE PROJECT APPROVALS

In a series of board meetings that stretched from November 20, 2006 through March 5, 2007, a significant set of approvals were granted to the Grand Avenue Project. The boards that took action on the project included: the Los Angeles Grand Avenue Authority, the Community Redevelopment Agency of the City of Los Angeles, the Los Angeles City Council, and the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors.

The most significant actions taken by these boards included certification of the Final Environmental Impact Report approval of the Disposition and Development Agreement, approval of Phase 1 Ground Leases, and approval of various Conveyance and Funding Agreements. Collectively, these approvals signify the agreement of all parties on the basic business terms of the project, the scope of work, and the schedule of performance.

The Developer has agreed to start construction of Phase I by October 1, 2007. Phase I will include the development of Parcel Q and the creation of a newly extended and revitalized Civic Park. Parcel Q is the parcel of land directly across Grand Avenue from the Walt Disney Concert Hall. The estimated completion date of Phase I is August 2011, although some parts of the project may be completed and operating as early as August 2010.

[Echo Park]

So nothing about tearing down the county buildings then :brickwall:

I really hope the CRA, board of supervisors, the city, et al are doing all they can to get those buildings tore down. I'm pretty certain the park will be a grand failure (pardon the pun) if those barriers aren't removed.

[Quixote]

^You took the words right out of my mouth.

The county buildings do a great job of limiting both accessiblity and visiblity of the current park. The park right now feels more like an enclosed space than anything else. All parks should be open and inviting spaces; this park is no exception.

What's the verdict on the matter? Last I heard, they've decided not to get rid of them...?

[Wright Concept]

I've read somewhere, I can't find the source, that the County Courthouse will be transfered to State control as of July 1, 2007. That could be a reason why the County couldn't budge on something like this tearing down something that will soon belong to someone else.

[Wright Concept]

The county buildings do a great job of limiting both accessiblity and visiblity of the current park. The park right now feels more like an enclosed space than anything else. All parks should be open and inviting spaces; this park is no exception...

How does one counter with the drop in elevation between the First Street side to the Park even with the buildings removed, that is a 2 story drop? Also keep in mind that there's parking underneath the park that has to be maintained and preserved the satisfy the FEIR, one of the reasons Related put their $50M down payment, not because of the park but for the PARKING under the park.

[citywatch]

Posted July 27, 2007 APPROVAL OF PHASE I SCHEMATIC DESIGN

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_01.jpg
I'm not one to make too big of an issue of a bldg being too short----like those ppl who complain about the height of various wood framed apt or condo bldgs now rising in parts of DT-----but this pic sure does make the bldg near 1st St & Olive seem kind of small. It's too bad the devlpr doesn't think there's need for more space in, & more floors for, that bldg, if not both of them together.

[Bernd]

Simple reason why the county buildings aren't being torn down: the county doesn't have the money.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ And now that it belongs to the State, doesn't look like anything's gonna happen either. Let's just pray for a moderate sized earthquake that will finally red-tape the two crap-county buildings as seismically unsafe beyond retrofitting repair.

[ReDSPork02]

http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/eli-broads-grand-illusion/16849/

Any of you guys read this.....??

[Echo Park]

Yeah that issue has been brought up before and the fact the city continues to give free handouts to private developers in face of urban decay throughout the city is one of the biggest insults to the city. A lot of people here will justify it by claiming megaprojects such as LA Live and Grand Ave will rejuvenate downtown, bring jobs, and inspire other developers to build downtown and clean up the urban core for all to enjoy. So far with all the new projects up we haven't seen this trickle down theory in effect at all. It will bring jobs but it will continue to cater to the upper middle class and the rich. I love Gehry's design and what it will you do for bunker hill but the money issue is a blemish on downtown and class divide will continue to widen.

[Bernd]

Zuma's wrong about the public park. The flag plaza in the county mall is a barren wasteland and needs to go. Aside from that, his points have merit. But it's important to remember that tax subsidies are not the same thing as opening up the general fund and taking money away from existing programs. These subsidies are based on tax revenue that can't be generated without the project moving forward in the first place.

[ferneynism2]

... speaking of Grand Ave! Groundbreaking ceremony is just around the corner. Anyone actually thinking of showing up? If so see you there!!!!
:drummer: :drummer: :drummer:

[JRinSoCal]

^When exactly is it??

[colemonkee]

Supposedly sometime in October. No single date has been set yet.

[BrandonJXN]

I thought it was the 1st.

[RAlossi]

I had e-mailed their "Contact Us" person and they replied within five minutes that they won't know a date until their next JPA meeting.

[RAlossi]

I had e-mailed their "Contact Us" person and they replied within five minutes that they won't know a date until their next JPA meeting.

[Wright Concept]

Previous Conversations on Bonaventure Lawsuit (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=126769)


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-grand12sep12,1,233355.story?coll=la-headlines-california

From the Los Angeles Times
Another step forward for Grand Avenue project
A City Council panel rejects the Bonaventure Hotel's challenge of the $2-billion downtown L.A. effort.
By David Zahniser
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

September 12, 2007

A key committee of the Los Angeles City Council on Tuesday rejected an effort by the Westin Bonaventure Hotel to derail a $2- billion mega-project that would bring a luxury hotel and more than 1,300 homes to downtown.

The council's Planning and Land Use Management Committee voted in favor of tract maps for the Grand Avenue project despite accusations from the Bonaventure's lawyer that the project would violate a downtown redevelopment plan by adding too many housing units.

Bonaventure attorney Christopher Sutton refused to discuss his client's challenge. But in an Aug. 24 letter opposing the project, he said Councilwoman Jan Perry should not have voted on it since she lives less than two blocks from the project site.

"Until and unless all alleged conflicts of interest are eliminated, the city as a whole must not even consider these land use matters," Sutton wrote.

Perry said she reviewed the issue three years ago, asking her attorney to confer with the city attorney's office and determine whether she needed to recuse herself. "They reached the conclusion that there was no conflict," said Perry, who represents much of downtown. "I had no greater benefit from this project than anyone else in the area."

The council approved environmental documents for the Grand Avenue project in February, voting to provide up to $66 million in tax breaks.

Related Cos. had been scheduled to break ground Oct. 1 on the project's first phase, which is east of Walt Disney Concert Hall and will include two skyscrapers housing a Mandarin Oriental Hotel and 500 homes, one-fifth of them designated as affordable.

Because of the pace of the permitting process, construction is now scheduled to begin in December, said Related Cos. spokeswoman Beatrice Hsu.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa has been trying to strike a deal with Bonaventure owner Peter Zen that would head off a time-consuming legal battle over the project. Zen issued a similar legal threat two years ago when the city offered tax breaks to L.A. Live, another hotel mega-project being built near Staples Center.

In that case, Villaraigosa reached an agreement that allowed Zen to convert some of his hotel rooms into condominiums if vacancy rates reached a certain threshold.

david.zahniser@latimes.com

[POLA]

rumor has it, that groundbreaking is this month!

[RAlossi]

Wasn't it moved to December 1 because of the lawsuit?