The Collective on 4th (4th and Harrison) | 175' | 15 floors | Complete

[maccoinnich]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/maccoinnich/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_04_zpsqwyjlpin.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/maccoinnich/media/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_04_zpsqwyjlpin.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/maccoinnich/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_01-1_zpsgiwlnf2o.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/maccoinnich/media/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_01-1_zpsgiwlnf2o.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/maccoinnich/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_05_zpspymbyka7.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/maccoinnich/media/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_05_zpspymbyka7.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/maccoinnich/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_03_zpstimfy1rs.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/maccoinnich/media/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_03_zpstimfy1rs.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/maccoinnich/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_02_zpseiuaa1ym.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/maccoinnich/media/skyscraperpage/4th%20and%20Harrison/4th_and_harrison_dz2_img_02_zpseiuaa1ym.jpg.html)

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From this week's list of land use intakes (http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/article/505418):

PROPOSED PROJECT WILL BE A MIXED DEVELOPMENT WITH RETAIL GROUND LEVEL AND 13-15 STORIES OF RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS ABOVE. CURRENT PLANS ARE FOR A GROCER TO OCCUPY THE ENTIRE GROUND FLOOR AND THE RESIDENTIAL TO BE A MIX OF PRIMARILY STUDENT HOUSING FOR PSU AND MARKET RATE APARTMENTS.

Site is 325 SW Harrison St (https://www.google.com/maps/place/325+SW+Harrison+St,+Portland+State+University,+Portland,+OR+97201/@45.5107557,-122.6800321,715m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x54950a13e2dbe881:0xd812886ce02656f4) (beside the Cyan). Applicant is Core Campus LLC (http://www.corecamp.us/). Their work seems to be pretty flashy, for better or worse.

[maccoinnich]

Surprised this didn't get some comments when I mentioned it in the Downtown thread.

From this week's list of land use intakes (http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/article/505418):

PROPOSED PROJECT WILL BE A MIXED DEVELOPMENT WITH RETAIL GROUND LEVEL AND 13-15 STORIES OF RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS ABOVE. CURRENT PLANS ARE FOR A GROCER TO OCCUPY THE ENTIRE GROUND FLOOR AND THE RESIDENTIAL TO BE A MIX OF PRIMARILY STUDENT HOUSING FOR PSU AND MARKET RATE APARTMENTS.

Site is 325 SW Harrison St (https://www.google.com/maps/place/325+SW+Harrison+St,+Portland+State+University,+Portland,+OR+97201/@45.5107557,-122.6800321,715m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x54950a13e2dbe881:0xd812886ce02656f4), which is owned by the Goodmans (http://downtowndevgrp.com/property/site-01). The site is beside the Cyan, and has a 175' height limit. FAR is 6:1, bonusable to 9:1. At 16 stories, this project would be roughly the same height as the Cyan.

Applicant is Chicago-based Core Campus LLC (http://www.corecamp.us/). Their work seems to be pretty flashy, and targets the high end of the student housing market. Their completed projects (http://www.corecamp.us/hub/completed-projects/) include amenities like swimming pools, gyms, tanning beds, steam rooms and sand volleyball courts. (Click through to the website if you want to see lots of building renders, populated by extremely good looking people of both sexes wearing next to nothing). Unit sizes range from studios to 5 bedrooms, with each bedroom leased individually.

They have a building under construction in Eugene (https://www.facebook.com/HubOnCampusEugene) to serve the University of Oregon. Here's a marketing video for it:

v6Y3DMegpQE

[RED_PDXer]

They have a building under construction in Eugene (https://www.facebook.com/HubOnCampusEugene) to serve the University of Oregon. Here's a marketing video for it:

v6Y3DMegpQE

That place looks ridiculously excessive! Hot tubs on the balcony, beach volleyball, table tennis courts, infinity pool, etc. It's basically MTV's Real World set. :pimpdaddy:

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

That place looks ridiculously excessive! Hot tubs on the balcony, beach volleyball, table tennis courts, infinity pool, etc. It's basically MTV's Real World set. :pimpdaddy:

It's UofO. Oregon gets whatever it wants. Looks awesome, though.

[maccoinnich]

That place looks ridiculously excessive! Hot tubs on the balcony, beach volleyball, table tennis courts, infinity pool, etc. It's basically MTV's Real World set. :pimpdaddy:

No kidding. It's a far cry from the accommodation I lived in as a student.

[WestCoast]

Grocery store there is long overdue, but there goes my view!

Not sure I want to be around even more college kids, so maybe as this rises, time to sell and move out !

Good I fill project even if it is bad for me personally.

[zilfondel]

No kidding. It's a far cry from the accommodation I lived in as a student.

Yeah, student accommodations seem to be getting more and more upscale. I think that most of the 'features' this company includes in their projects would be essentially unused in our climate, however. Open-air pools, rooftop decks, sand volleyball decks... school lasts from October through June; with the average temperature of winter being what, 40 degrees F? And around 10 hours of overcast skies? Lol...

On the other hand, having more housing around PSU is an absolute must, as it means that many fewer wealthier students driving their BMWs and Maseratis in from Lake Oswego, Beaverton and Hillsboro!

[urbanlife]

Grocery store there is long overdue, but there goes my view!

Not sure I want to be around even more college kids, so maybe as this rises, time to sell and move out !

Good I fill project even if it is bad for me personally.

That is how I felt, I was living at the south end of the Park Blocks. I loved my place and the location, but each year I got older and everyone in my neighborhood stayed the same age. You can only handle being around college students for so long, especially if you are no longer in college.

[maccoinnich]

This week's list of land use intakes (http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/article/506193) is a quiet one, but it has this update on the Hub on Campus project:

Pre-Application Conference to discuss Type III Design Review for a proposed 13-15 story mixed-use development with a retail grocery store at the ground level and residential units above. Approximately 97 below-grade parking spaces are also proposed.

[NJD]

DAR report (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/webdrawer.dll/webdrawer/rec/7010878/view/)

looks like University Point in massing...

[maccoinnich]

DAR report (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/webdrawer.dll/webdrawer/rec/7010878/view/)

looks like University Point in massing...

That's too bad. As University Point shows, buildings that tall in a U-shaped plan can be pretty oppressive. Under the current zoning, this site has a 175' max height, so if they want to max out the FAR, they kind of have to fill the block. Under the proposed changes (https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/483889) to the Comp plan, this site would have a 250' limit, which might allow for a taller more slender building.

[maccoinnich]

So I came across this PDC study (http://www.pdc.us/Libraries/Document_Library/Central_City_Grocery_Market_Analysis_-_2011_pdf.sflb.ashx) from 2011 titled 'Central City Grocery Market Analysis'. It looked into the viability of grocery stores at 4 locations: SW 4th & Harrison, Riverplace Parcel 8, SE 10th & Belmont* and South Waterfront. Of those four, only 4th & Harrison was seen as viable. Here's the summary for 4th & Harrison:

PSU / 4th & Harrison Site

The market area for PSU is similar to that of the RiverPlace and OHSU-ZRZ sites, but does not extend as far south. It is roughly bounded by Clay Street to the north, the Willamette River to the east, Bancroft Street to the south and 16th Avenue/Barbur Boulevard to the west.

Target Markets
As of 2010, the PSU Market Area contained 11,757 residents in 6,271 households. Population growth was strong over the last decade at an average of 3.7 percent per year. The pace of growth is expected to slow somewhat through 2015, although remaining healthy at an average of 2.1 percent annually. Like the RiverPlace/OHSU-ZRZ Market Area, the PSU Market Area has small household sizes (average of 1.5 persons) and modest incomes (median of $42,706). Educational attainment is high – nearly two-thirds of the population age 25 or older holds a Bachelor degree or higher.

Over 21,000 employees work within the PSU Market Area. The largest shares work in health services (29 percent), other services (19 percent) and finance/insurance/real estate (16 percent).6 PSU students will be an additional target market for grocery development in this area. PSU anticipates enrollment will grow by 7 percent by 2019, from 25,647 students to 27,400.

Recent and Anticipated New Development
Appendix B provides an overview of recent and planned development (excluding South Waterfront) in the PSU Market Area. Since 2005, seventeen new projects have added housing units to accommodate 2,522 new residents and commercial space for nearly 2,000 new employees. Over the next five years, space for another 2,238 residents and 3,150 retail and office workers is planned or proposed.

Potential Grocery Demand
Marketek estimated grocery demand based on existing and future resident and employee spending in the PSU Market Area. A comparison of existing grocery spending potential (demand) and current grocery sales (supply), indicate sales leakage of $28.5 million out of the market area. This amount translates to potential demand for 73,122 square feet of grocery store space (see Appendix C).

Future support for new store space generated by market area household and employee growth totals 12,809 square feet (10,901 SF supported by residential growth and 2,781 SF supported by employment growth. In total, there is potential for 85,931 square feet of new store space in the PSU Market Area over the next five years.

Potential Site Capture
PSU has potential to capture up to 35 percent of market area demand over the next five years, which translates to 30,075 square feet by 2016.


The report then asks various grocery operators of their opinions on the various site. On the 4th & Harrison site:


John Attar, Owner/Operator Barbur World Foods:

• Interested in site
• Concerned about parking
• Would explore a two-story store at this location

Rick Wright, President & CEO Market of Choice:

• Very interested in site; the customer base is Market of Choice’s target market
• Has looked at the site before and would consider a 30,000 SF store
• Primary objection/concern is how to deal with parking; absolute minimum need is 2-3 spaces per 1,000 SF
• Parking structure may make a store cost prohibitive

Don Forrest, Director of Development New Seasons:

• Excellent underserved dense consumer market
• Very interested in this location

John Kellogg, Real Estate Broker for Whole Foods Commercial Realty Advisors:

• Attractive location
• Level of activity in vicinity is a plus
• Strong population
• Very concerned about truck access
• Plans to make SW Montgomery Street a non vehicular ‘green street’ further limit truck and auto access

Three years later, there's now a 30,000 sq ft grocery store proposed for this site. I'm calling it first as the next New Seasons: it's about the right size; they were enthusiastic about it this site in 2011; they're in expansion mode; and it wouldn't compete with any of their existing or planned stores.

* As an aside, SE 10th & Belmont is the goat blocks site. None of the grocers asked considered it a viable location, and yet the goat blocks development will have a large grocery store in it. Presumably someone thinks it's viable.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

We dissected that report in my upper level planning course, and after our discussion and reports, we concluded that the traffic disruptions at 4th & Harrison would make it too difficult for a market. Not that our course has any influence on this project, but it'll be interesting to see the logic in this choice as the project develops.

[WestCoast]

We dissected that report in my upper level planning course, and after our discussion and reports, we concluded that the traffic disruptions at 4th & Harrison would make it too difficult for a market. Not that our course has any influence on this project, but it'll be interesting to see the logic in this choice as the project develops.

That's actually super interesting. With the street car cutting across both ways, it's already a bit of a zoo during rush hour. I can't imagine 50 cars going in and out of a parking garage below.

I'm a YIMBY type guy, so even though it will block my view and likely make me move out of here long term, I'll vote for/support it.

But I imagine traffic will get nasty indeed.

[maccoinnich]

The Design Advice documents don't state whether the parking is intended for residents or the grocery store, but it looks like it might be the former. The vertical circulation doesn't look like it's set up to allow access from the garage to the store. But would a grocer in the US really lease a space with no customer parking?

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

That's actually super interesting. With the street car cutting across both ways, it's already a bit of a zoo during rush hour. I can't imagine 50 cars going in and out of a parking garage below.

I'm a YIMBY type guy, so even though it will block my view and likely make me move out of here long term, I'll vote for/support it.

But I imagine traffic will get nasty indeed.

Our conclusion didn't so much have to do with customer or resident traffic, but it was based on the turning radii and ease of access by the supply trucks and delivery vans. Any kind of tractor-trailer needing to unload would completely block traffic on either 4th or Harrison (at least based on a site visit).

[maccoinnich]

Genuinely curious: how would the loading be any worse compared to the Safeway in the Pearl whose loading bay is on NW 14th? Or compared to the Jefferson Safeway, whose loading bay is on SW 11th?

[RED_PDXer]

Although I work two blocks away and see the traffic on 4th every day, I think the truck traffic to a market could be accommodated in the early, early morning fairly easily and on the weekends. I would definitely shop here to pick things up on the way home and I never drive to work. I suspect other office workers would too. PSU students would probably appreciate another choice than the Safeway, which I detest.

[cailes]

I live close to here and there is so much foot traffic in the area, it pains me to see parking such a large part of the comments being made. New Seasons inspires me since they lack a solid downtown market (so far) and would be welcome. It was nice that they did not comment about parking.

As for trucks, there are many creative ways to handle this. Maybe they would require shorter trucks to service the grocer? Maybe access from Harrison would be the way to handle it?

[maccoinnich]

Design Advice Posting Notice (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/Record/7059501/File/Document) [PDF, small]. It has a small image. It kind of looks like the architect couldn't decide on a facade treatment, and thought "to hell with it; let's go for every idea I've ever had."

A Design Advice Request is a voluntary review process that allows the Commission to provide early feedback on a development proposal, prior to the required land use review. The applicant seeks Design Advice for a potential 15-story, mixed-use building in the Central City and South Auditorium Plan Districts. The proposed building at the northeast corner of SW 4th and Harrison, would include approximately 30,000 SF of retail (potential grocer) at the ground level and residential units, primarily for student housing, on the upper floors. Loading and parking garage access are currently proposed at the northwest corner of the building off of SW 4th Avenue. The garage would provide approximately 192 parking spaces in two underground levels for both proposed commercial and residential uses. A central exterior courtyard would be located at the 2nd level creating a u-shaped tower with the opening along SW 4th. Additional outdoor amenities are proposed atop the 15th floor along with a greenroof. Potential Modifications to building setbacks and loading development standards have been identified.

[maccoinnich]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/maccoinnich/skyscraperpage/November192014EA14-220633DAR-4thampHarrison-PostingNotice-2_zps6e6ce205.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/maccoinnich/media/skyscraperpage/November192014EA14-220633DAR-4thampHarrison-PostingNotice-2_zps6e6ce205.jpg.html)

[RainDog]

This is much larger than what I was picturing for some reason. The design does seem pretty chaotic, hopefully the finished product will be more cohesive.

[PDXDENSITY]

It certainly does look a bit hodge-podge. It could be cool if done right?

[maccoinnich]

Design Advice drawings (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/Record/7010883/File/Document) [PDF, 112MB]. First hearing scheduled for December 11th.

[WestCoast]

^^^^^^^^

Holy god it's horrible :yuck:

[maccoinnich]

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-vignette.jpg

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-massing.jpg

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-massing-02.jpg

I also put the floorplans and elevations up on Next Portland (http://www.nextportland.com/2014/12/04/images-released-4th-harrison/).

[PDXDENSITY]

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-vignette.jpg

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-massing.jpg

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-massing-02.jpg

I also put the floorplans and elevations up on Next Portland (http://www.nextportland.com/2014/12/04/images-released-4th-harrison/).

I think it's tucked away enough that it will create an interesting street experience and not be too loud. It seems like it could be cool.

[maccoinnich]

Anyone could miss it. Kind of like Canada, all tucked away down there.

[PDXDENSITY]

Anyone could miss it. Kind of like Canada, all tucked away down there.

I'm trying to see the bright side. Maybe it'll apologize for its appearance everyday, like Canada.

[urbanlife]

I'm trying to see the bright side. Maybe it'll apologize for its appearance everyday, like Canada.

The bright side is the built version will probably be a bland version of this mess of a building. Seriously, someone needs to slap an architect who clearly was at the bottom of their class with this kind of design work.

[PDXDENSITY]

The bright side is the built version will probably be a bland version of this mess of a building. Seriously, someone needs to slap an architect who clearly was at the bottom of their class with this kind of design work.

Let's commission a copyright-crazed artist to make a huge statue in front of it no one can take pictures of...

[cab]

Wait, did this guy really put blank walls facing an interior courtyard? That better be glass.

[2oh1]

Wait, did this guy really put blank walls facing an interior courtyard? That better be glass.

What the WHUT? Why did he/they do that? Why? Wow. Why?

I agree that this location is in an odd enough spot that a weird building would be fine. It's sort of tucked away, yet not. But this design is a mess. Maybe it's a fake. Maybe they have a real design that they think will get shot down or dumbed down, so they present this instead with the intention of presenting their real design as if it's actually a compromise. Otherwise... wtf?

[maccoinnich]

Looking at how the units are arranged in plan, I'm fairly confident that wont be blank facade.

As much as I'm recoiling at the facade treatment, I'm more concerned about the massing. A 15 story U-shaped building is going to be very very bulky.

[PDXDENSITY]

Looking at how the units are arranged in plan, I'm fairly confident that wont be blank facade.

As much as I'm recoiling at the facade treatment, I'm more concerned about the massing. A 15 story U-shaped building is going to be very very bulky.

Any ground retail?

[maccoinnich]

30,000 sq ft grocer.

[PDXDENSITY]

30,000 sq ft grocer.

Hey, that's good! I do think the building is beyond bulky. It would look so much better as fine-grained density-- several different dorm structures to make it look less like a superblock.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

What the WHUT? Why did he/they do that? Why? Wow. Why?

I agree that this location is in an odd enough spot that a weird building would be fine. It's sort of tucked away, yet not. But this design is a mess. Maybe it's a fake. Maybe they have a real design that they think will get shot down or dumbed down, so they present this instead with the intention of presenting their real design as if it's actually a compromise. Otherwise... wtf?

Agreed. Portland already has one too many of those buildings in University Pointe. Time will tell.

[zilfondel]

Our conclusion didn't so much have to do with customer or resident traffic, but it was based on the turning radii and ease of access by the supply trucks and delivery vans. Any kind of tractor-trailer needing to unload would completely block traffic on either 4th or Harrison (at least based on a site visit).

Reminds me of this article I read recently:

Is Portland ready to start building streets for smaller trucks?

http://bikeportland.org/2014/12/01/portland-ready-start-building-streets-smaller-trucks-114065

The Federal Highway Administration suggests having traditional 30-foot trucks in mind when designing residential and local city streets and intersections. But in its latest design guide, the National Association of City Transportation Officials recommended preparing for a 23-foot vehicle in such situations. The City of Chicago has followed suit; its latest street guide (with Nelson\Nygaard as lead consultant) also introduced a 23-foot delivery van for neighborhood streets.

It goes on about various sized delivery trucks, although I don't think they were related to grocery store deliveries, which normally require larger trucks due to the amount of stuff they get delivered. Still, there is room for improvement.

There are other buildings in downtown Portland where semi truck trailers backup into the loading zone and end up blocking traffic. It seems like a fairly common thing, actually.

[zilfondel]

I'm trying to see the bright side. Maybe it'll apologize for its appearance everyday, like Canada.

Har, har. Your humor is coming up a bit short, mate.

Considering the building is on 4th, one of the busiest streets in downtown... with a really weak SW corner, which will probably be one of the most visible corner views in downtown Portland, I'd have to disagree.

The streetcar makes its turn towards South Waterfront right there, and the PSU food carts are a block to the SW. This thing is way too massive to ignore.

It's a turd. :titanic:

[zilfondel]

Looking at how the units are arranged in plan, I'm fairly confident that wont be blank facade.

As much as I'm recoiling at the facade treatment, I'm more concerned about the massing. A 15 story U-shaped building is going to be very very bulky.

Agreed; I don't see how you could have that much of the building's envelope be blank walls... would make a lot of unleasable space for residential use. I would guess they didn't finish their (crappy) sketchup model before submitting it.

http://www.nextportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EA-14-220633-DAR-4th-Harrison-massing-02.jpg

This would be one of the bulkiest buildings in downtown, if built. Look how it dwarfs the Harrison towers and everything else!

Gah, is there any design intent in this thing? Sky lobbies like the recent PSU dorm? Internal circulation or hangout spaces???

[Derek]

Aside from the strangely blank wall facing the courtyard, I love it. There's nothing tall-ish in Portland being built right now that really pushes architectural boundaries. I feel like this project isn't big enough to make a huge impact on the skyline, but it'll definitely get people talking when they see it at ground level (if it looks anything like the rendering). Obviously reactions will be mixed, but hey, keep Portland weird.

[urbanlife]

I have a feeling we will see this building change a lot during the design process to the final built building.

[maccoinnich]

They have their first Design Advice hearing next week. Audio is normally posted to Efiles shortly afterwards. I'll be very curious to listen and find out how it went.

[ablerock]

This building looks like a timid, lazy-man's version of a SHoP Architects-inspired design (1, (http://www.shoparc.com/project/B2-BKLYN) 2, (http://www.shoparc.com/project/Domino-Sugar-Refinery) 3 (http://www.shoparc.com/project/ESSEX-CROSSING)), what with all the different facades and pseudo modules. SHoP knocks it out of the park though, whereas this just feels underdeveloped and boringly awkward. It's just so huge and basically a square! At least they could vary the height to give the roofline some interest. And be less timid about varying the facade depth. (again see links above)

The huge grocery will be awesome for that area, though.

This "Hub on Campus" thing is on other campuses in the US as well. I guess it's a newish development package concept? http://huboncampus.com

[mmeade]

They have their first Design Advice hearing next week. Audio is normally posted to Efiles shortly afterwards. I'll be very curious to listen and find out how it went.

I was looking forward to David Keltner's comments on this building as he was on the design team for Cyan/pdx. It looks like his commission expired in November, so he may not be part of the review. That is a shame.

[maccoinnich]

This had a first Design Advice hearing this session. There were major concerns about the massing raised by the Bureau of Development Services, the three Commissioners present and members of the public who testified. University Pointe was mentioned more than once, and Ben Kaiser admitted that he regretted voting to approve it. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure how the design team can resolve this. A taller, more slender building would undeniably be more elegant, but they're maxed out on height, and the zoning code doesn't allow bonuses or modifications to height in this location.

Other concerns included: whether green walls are an appropriate response to the ground level elevation at the Halprin sequence, given their history of not performing well; the location and configuration of the loading dock / garage entry; and overall building elevations, and whether the various pattern shifts were just a graphic device or actually represented something going on in the building.

[zilfondel]

What? bonuses aren't allowed at this site?

That really sucks. No FAR transfers possible?

[maccoinnich]

The FAR is 6:1, but is bonusable to 9:1 with housing, which is what they're doing. The height limit is 175', and I don't think they're eligible for any option to increase that.

[soleri]

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/insidetucsonbusiness.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/16/c1603e60-9a56-11e3-a375-0019bb2963f4/53063fd4cfe62.image.jpg

I saw this Hub student housing in Tucson last year and, as you can see, it's hideous. The problem with this kind of proposal cannot be solved by adding floors while reducing the overall bulkiness. The bulk is its economic premise. If it looks cheap, it's for a reason, not just because the architects are uninspired. Hub has tweaked this basic design by adding color, offsets, appliqués, etc., but it's unlikely to change the core concept: lots of units, cheaply constructed, and overpriced. The only question I have is whether a compromise is possible with this kind of business model.

[maccoinnich]

Design Advice Request #2 drawings (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/Record/7214897/File/Document) [PDF, 42 MB]. Has not substantially improved.

[QAtheSky]

http://i.imgur.com/RmdjDfl.jpg

The renderings and sketches do not really make it look very appealing. Its looks... disorganized?

[zilfondel]

http://i.imgur.com/RmdjDfl.jpg

The renderings and sketches do not really make it look very appealing. Its looks... disorganized?

I can't believe how massive the building is. Just a large, mass of building. Doesn't really have anything else going on there - just leasable space with enough access to air and natural daylight. Funny it only has a FAR of 9 though - wonder if they will qualify for the +3 bonus?

Oh look, Myhre Group - big surprise there. HPA's work, on the other hand, reminds me of modernist works ala SOM. Wonder if they are trying to do some sort of weird massing like one of Koolhaas' offset tower blocks.

[urbanlife]

It kind of makes me wish they would just go with a bland design....maybe something in beige.

[zilfondel]

Actually, after reading through their PDF, I think the detailing of the facade may be decent. They seem to have a good grasp of materiality and facade detailing... their list of Portland precedents includes a number of nearby university buildings (for better or worse) - they've done their homework. The facade is all metal panel and fully glazed; the envelope is pretty fleshed out in their elevations but not the 3d model. The banding in the middle and the massing is pretty odd, tho - it does seem too hectic compared to their portfolio.

Also, their landscape architect seems to have done a bang-up job in designing a match for the pedestrian street along Montgomery, so that is *really* good news.

[urbanlife]

Actually, after reading through their PDF, I think the detailing of the facade may be decent. They seem to have a good grasp of materiality and facade detailing... their list of Portland precedents includes a number of nearby university buildings (for better or worse) - they've done their homework. The facade is all metal panel and fully glazed; the envelope is pretty fleshed out in their elevations but not the 3d model. The banding in the middle and the massing is pretty odd, tho - it does seem too hectic compared to their portfolio.

Also, their landscape architect seems to have done a bang-up job in designing a match for the pedestrian street along Montgomery, so that is *really* good news.

That at least sounds good, I didn't stop to read through the pdf.

[bvpcvm]

Maybe it's just artistic license, but in the rendering it looks like 3rd (and maybe 2nd) have been returned to vehicular traffic. Is that in some plan I'm unaware of? I hope not.

[2oh1]

Maybe it's just artistic license, but in the rendering it looks like 3rd (and maybe 2nd) have been returned to vehicular traffic. Is that in some plan I'm unaware of? I hope not.

I was confused by that too. They're showing intersections where there can't possibly be any. 3rd & Harrison? 2nd & Harrison? Not a chance.

[davehogan]

I was confused by that too. They're showing intersections where there can't possibly be any. 3rd & Harrison? 2nd & Harrison? Not a chance.

Maybe they mixed up the pedestrian crossings with being actual intersections? Looking closely, at least at 3rd, it looks like a few parking spots maybe?

With a streetcar stop right there it's more likely just a mistake, but maybe there will be right in/right out parking there or something?

[ORNative]

Yesterday HUB gave its presentation on the modified design to the Design Review Commission. I had opportunity to drop in several times during the course of the presentation and testimony. While I am not sold on the design, the speakers appeared thoughtful and considerate of the suggestions previously made by the Commission. The neighbors, however, were not appeased.

There was a parade of individuals testifying against the design, and one individual whose comments were endorsed by 65 others. Among their concerns were: Lot line - unlike other towers in the neighborhood which are set back and surrounded by landscaped, park-like grounds, HUB builds up from the property lines with little regard for landscaping. The landscaped areas of the building are internal and for exclusive use of residents. It does not create a public space, but instead a gated community feel; Massing - the building mass will cast a significant shadow on neighborhood parks, potentially damaging the vegetation and impacting park use. Neighbors recommended a study on the impact of the shadow, not just the amount of shadow.

Interestingly, neighbors appeared to prefer a taller, slimmer building. The primary opposition was to full-block massing of the structure. At least from those whom I heard testify.

[TowerPower]

The design is horrible. A kid playing with blocks could do better (which is very much what the building resembles- a stack of blocks).

[zilfondel]

The issue is the height limit, apparently. It maximizes the 175' height limit and 6:1 FAR (with 3:1 bonus they are seeking). If the height limit was expanded, they could actually create a tower. A tower on the SW corner of the lot could help move mass and shading away from the Halprin park.

[ORNative]

It appears that the parcel is proposed to increase from 175' to 225' under the 2035 plan which is up for vote this year.

[2oh1]

Even if there were no height restriction, wouldn't it be more expensive to build a tower? Would a tall slender tower pencil out? Obviously, we can only speculate on that.

[maccoinnich]

Yesterday HUB gave its presentation on the modified design to the Design Review Commission. I had opportunity to drop in several times during the course of the presentation and testimony. While I am not sold on the design, the speakers appeared thoughtful and considerate of the suggestions previously made by the Commission. The neighbors, however, were not appeased.

There was a parade of individuals testifying against the design, and one individual whose comments were endorsed by 65 others. Among their concerns were: Lot line - unlike other towers in the neighborhood which are set back and surrounded by landscaped, park-like grounds, HUB builds up from the property lines with little regard for landscaping. The landscaped areas of the building are internal and for exclusive use of residents. It does not create a public space, but instead a gated community feel; Massing - the building mass will cast a significant shadow on neighborhood parks, potentially damaging the vegetation and impacting park use. Neighbors recommended a study on the impact of the shadow, not just the amount of shadow.

Interestingly, neighbors appeared to prefer a taller, slimmer building. The primary opposition was to full-block massing of the structure. At least from those whom I heard testify.

Did you get any sense for what the Design Commission's feelings on the massing are?

[urbanlife]

It appears that the parcel is proposed to increase from 175' to 225' under the 2035 plan which is up for vote this year.

Ugh, that is way too low of a height limit for any part of downtown. Granted, we don't know if they would actually build taller had the limit been set at a higher limit, but we should be allowing for taller buildings in this part of downtown.

[mcbaby]

Its bulky, squatty and bland. You'd think they'd at least include a green roof.

[Encolpius]

Setbacks for the upper stories would improve the massing of this building and hopefully allow more light to reach neighboring parks. I don't know if this is as much of a problem at the point where building meets sidewalk. Plenty of buildings nearby are pointlessly set back from the street and consequently create dead streets.

The criticism that it will be a gated community (for eighteen-to-twentysomethings, perversely) and creates no public space is spot on. Nearby you have the Urban Plaza, a great public space, and that whole warren of 'pedestrian trails' around Pettygrove Park. Any new construction should preserve and contribute to the open and accessible format that is uniquely appealing about this neighborhood.

[RED_PDXer]

Is there still a market proposed on the ground floor? Did the Cyan building next door not max out its FAR?

[zilfondel]

The criticism that it will be a gated community (for eighteen-to-twentysomethings, perversely) and creates no public space is spot on. Nearby you have the Urban Plaza, a great public space, and that whole warren of 'pedestrian trails' around Pettygrove Park. Any new construction should preserve and contribute to the open and accessible format that is uniquely appealing about this neighborhood.

All of the buildings that front (rear?) Pettygrove Park and the Halprin trails are gated; from the Harrison condos, 200 Market, Cyan, the list goes on. None of those buildings offer public space, they are all private with fences, private pools, private carports, etc. So that isn't anything new.

As an anecdote, 200 Market employs private security who will actually detain you if you trespass.

It should be noted that public space in downtown Portland can be quite problematic due to the transient and homeless population, who will inhabit almost any space that offers shelter unless actively patrolled. This isn't the greatest combination for residential housing...

[Encolpius]

All of the buildings that front (rear?) Pettygrove Park and the Halprin trails are gated; from the Harrison condos, 200 Market, Cyan, the list goes on. None of those buildings offer public space, they are all private with fences, private pools, private carports, etc. So that isn't anything new.

Fair point. I admit it's perhaps unfair to expect this project to offer public space in a way that existing private developments in the area do not. However, at least these other buildings are massed and situated in ways that are careful of the public spaces around them, particularly the pedestrian trails. I don't see any evidence that MGA's lead architect thought about its relationship to the parks and trails surrounding it (guess it was left entirely to the landscape architect entrusted with 6' strips facing north and east). It's thus revealing that the bordering pedestrian trails are literally effaced (turned into vehicular streets) in the architect's rendering. And I've yet to see a rendering that includes Pettygrove Park, even though it's not only catercorner, it's fully in the building's shadow.

On a more positive note, I agree with you that the facade detailing is interesting.

It should be noted that public space in downtown Portland can be quite problematic due to the transient and homeless population, who will inhabit almost any space that offers shelter unless actively patrolled. This isn't the greatest combination for residential housing...

Well, the ground floor of this building will be commercial (supermarket?). Buildings with residential above commercial can of course offer vibrant public space: here's (http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2006/oct/23/architecture.communities) a powerful example from London, but I think there are good precedents in Portland as well. Anyway, it's sad that homelessness is so pervasive, and disgusting to think that the failure to adequately house our population might be treated as a reasonable pretext for making high-end market-rate apartment buildings more fortresslike. But if the trails and Lovejoy Park have not yet become Hoovervilles, why should we be any more concerned about this lot?

[cab]

How does an architect design a building of this magnitude next to a park designed by an award winning architect and get the basics of the street grid wrong? How could they possible get the building to meet the street appropriately. Is this amateur hour or just standard practice? A building designed in isolation with no connection at all to place.

[2oh1]

How does an architect design a building of this magnitude next to a park designed by an award winning architect and get the basics of the street grid wrong? How could they possible get the building to meet the street appropriately. Is this amateur hour or just standard practice? A building designed in isolation with no connection at all to place.

That may sound harsh, but it's the exact same thing I was thinking. I couldn't help wondering if they'd even been to Portland. How could anyone design a building for a site without knowing the site well enough to notice it has no street on its east side?

[mmeade]

The person who made this rendering would certainly not be the person who designed this building. This kind of blooper with the driveways happens all the time when presentation drawings are coming fast and furious. While it is regrettable that the sidewalk may be shown incorrectly, it's hardly the most important thing in the shot.

I would be interested in seeing renderings on what the building looks like from Pettygrove park. In general, most buildings on the superblock have pulled away from the park to allow it to feel larger than it really is. This building would be a huge departure from that design language.

When THA designed Cyan/PDX, they did massing studies for a building on this block that had a similar sized to the Cyan building fronting Harrison. This space between the buildings on the West side would allow views past all building and afternoon light through to the park.

[2oh1]

While it is regrettable that the sidewalk may be shown incorrectly

It's not just the sidewalk. They place the building on a street it's not on - a street that doesn't exist.

[mmeade]

It's not just the sidewalk. They place the building on a street it's not on - a street that doesn't exist.

It's likely that a rendering company or graphics professional not working with the design team made that rendering, not either of the architecture firms involved with the project. In other words, someone not familiar with the project was handed a model and a photo and assigned the task of making it real.

The fact that it is wrong is hardly surprising to me.

[maccoinnich]

I just listened to the audio of the February 19th hearing. The Design Commission was extremely clear that they think the massing is entirely inappropriate for the site, and that the changes made since December were not adequate to address the concerns raised at the first hearing.

[maccoinnich]

Latest drawings (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/Record/7262941/File/Document) [PDF - 2MB]. It looks like they've taken a step back after the extremely negative reaction of the Commission at the last hearing. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the massing alternatives are much better.

[eric cantona]

Latest drawings (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/Record/7262941/File/Document) [PDF - 2MB]. It looks like they've taken a step back after the extremely negative reaction of the Commission at the last hearing. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the massing alternatives are much better.

pigs with lipstick will still be pigs.

[zilfondel]

Yeah, looks like they're stuck. They busted out the sketchup models and everything. :)

Funny how they put the loading bay in a place that clearly won't work...

[cailes]

Makes you wonder if anybody actually went out and walked around the property to think about things...

[maccoinnich]

I'm listening to the Design Commission audio from this afternoon's hearing. I'm less than half way through the hearing, but the Commission are tearing the proposed designs apart to degree that's actually painful to listen to.

[urbanlife]

I'm listening to the Design Commission audio from this afternoon's hearing. I'm less than half way through the hearing, but the Commission are tearing the proposed designs apart to degree that's actually painful to listen to.

That is good, it is always nice to know when the Design Commission goes after something that is clearly a bad design.

[BrG]

It's likely that a rendering company or graphics professional not working with the design team made that rendering, not either of the architecture firms involved with the project. In other words, someone not familiar with the project was handed a model and a photo and assigned the task of making it real.

The fact that it is wrong is hardly surprising to me.

Yep. It certainly does happen in the timelines this stuff is expected to be turned around it.

As for the design it is pretty clear the program is tough to accommodate in any graceful way within the potential development envelope. It's BIG.

[PDXDENSITY]

Yep. It certainly does happen in the timelines this stuff is expected to be turned around it.

As for the design it is pretty clear the program is tough to accommodate in any graceful way within the potential development envelope. It's BIG.

With stepbacks, this could be a far more graceful tower. The height restrictions there are ridiculous.

[BrG]

With stepbacks, this could be a far more graceful tower. The height restrictions there are ridiculous.

As you know, stepbacks = FAR giveaway + construction complexity.

You can go taller.. But going taller gets more expensive, per sf.

Kevin Cavenaugh called them 'greedy buildings', which seems somewhat appropriate. More specifically "risk aversion + max yield" buildings.

Not pretty ones, that's for sure.

One look at PSU's 6th and College behemoth, shows that.

[maccoinnich]

I was kind of hoping this had died, but no: it's on the Design Commission agenda for June 4th.

[maccoinnich]

It's back, and vastly improved (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/Record/7779589/File/Document) [PDF - 40MB]. Now on the Design Commission agenda for June 18th.

[ORNative]

Wow - What a vast improvement. I work two blocks away and my window will look directly at this building. I am impressed with the new design's aesthetics and how it opens toward the park. This should receive a much warmer reception at the design commission.

[maccoinnich]

If ever an example was needed of the value of Design Review I think this is it.

[cab]

OK, I have to admit, Design review came through on this one. This is must build now. It will have a huge impact on that area. Could be critical mass to activate those 3 fantastic parks.

[65MAX]

Wow, that's a MASSIVE improvement. Especially considering it's Myhre Group.

[2oh1]

Holy cow. Talk about a difference. This building went from something to dread to being something to get excited about.

The only thing I'm not crazy about is the dark metal paneling along the lower portion facing the park (see 2nd photo in the comment below). I don't understand what they're going for there. Glass would have been so much nicer. Luckily, most of it will be at least a story above ground from the park, with glass below it facing into the park.

[QAtheSky]

http://i.imgur.com/aMYBFyE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xPhQxbo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/idwYllJ.jpg

A phenomenal turnaround. Very excited by the changes here. This building seems much more elegant and in tune with the neighborhood.

[maccoinnich]

Wow, that's a MASSIVE improvement. Especially considering it's Myhre Group.

I think Myhre Group are only involved to the extent of assisting with dealing with the City. The design architects are Hartshorne Plunkard of Chicago.

[WestCoast]

oh yeah! Major improvement.

This takes away my view of the hills, but, who cares, looks great.
Nice big supermarket below that I can walk to. Bring more people to the neighborhood after the school day ends.

Love it. Build it. (said knowing full well it will lower my lower my property values and ruin my view... whatever).

There are parking spots blocked off in the lot, wonder if they are doing surveying work?

[urbanlife]

Oh thank god, this looks so much better. I was afraid this building was gonna be the turd of downtown.

[BlazerBeav]

I think Myhre Group are only involved to the extent of assisting with dealing with the City. The design architects are Hartshorne Plunkard of Chicago.

That is correct - I was involved with the design of the Hub building currently under construction in Eugene. Hartshorne Plunkard is the design firm for all of their buildings.

[mcbaby]

Much improved. Would like to see a green roof and taller trees in courtyard.

[zilfondel]

That really fills in that corner nicely. 9/10