Hassalo on Eighth | 21 floors | Completed

[PacificNW]

This is great news!

http://www.oregonlive.com/front-porch/index.ssf/2012/03/langley_proposes_750_apartment.html

:notacrook:

[bvpcvm]

haha, just came here to post this

http://media.oregonlive.com/front-porch/photo/bzlloyd-conceptjpg-ad9f54b4fec3e447.jpg

[bvpcvm]

the developer's web site (http://www.langleyinvestmentproperties.com/development/)

[PacificNW]

Cool.....thanks..

[tworivers]

Holy sh*t. It's not even April Fool's Day.

[WestCoast]

looks great. That area is a wasteland and this could do wonders.

Bring it on, it's been years since PDX has had a big deal like this to talk about.

[rsbear]

Awesome news! I hope that the illustration is true and that this project will give the east side of town a new tallest building that stands out from all the 20ish story structures there now.

[MarkDaMan]

The four towers would be...

Four towers! SWEEET!

[twofiftyfive]

Four towers! SWEEET!

I think one of the towers is already there--American Assets Trusts owns the Lloyd 700 Building, which is on that block and appears in the rendering. It looks like the attached parking structure would be demolished, though.

[2oh1]

WOW! Love. It. So. Much.

[downtownpdx]

Soooo cool -- a new tallest for Lloyd District I hope! Looks that way in the rendering.

[downtownpdx]

I this the site of Weston's proposed Cosmopolitan Tower that fizzled a few years ago? (And the one before that, The Cascadian or something?)

[bvpcvm]

no, that was one or two blocks west

edit: on grand ave

[davehogan]

This better explains why the new streetcar jogs off of MLK and Grand through the Lloyd Center.

[65MAX]

It jogs over to 7th to get within two blocks of Lloyd Center Mall, and presumably to tap into the property value of that ~20 block superblock.

[davehogan]

It jogs over to 7th to get within two blocks of Lloyd Center Mall, and presumably to tap into the property value of that ~20 block superblock.

7th also has a lot more land that can be used to high densities, and the MAX already provides transportation to that pocket.

It does make sense to swing it east north of I-84, since there is a lot of underutilized property in the area and it don't slow down the route too much.

Hopefully more of the parking lots around the Lloyd Center get redeveloped. I hate the one that's about the size of four blocks on the southeast side of the mall (next to the movie theaters.) An 18 block mall is bad enough, but the surface parking around it really makes it suck.

Every time I'm stuck in the Lloyd Center I feel like I'm back in LA. It's not a pleasant feeling.

[360Rich]

More info from KATU: http://www.katu.com/news/business/Many-look-forward-to-superblock-development-in-Lloyd-District-141536583.html

[PacificNW]

In regards to this development and possible future projects: How does one go about lifting the height limitations in downtown/Lloyd District? Can this be undone by the city council?

[maccoinnich]

The KATU comments section makes Oregonlive seem like the London Review of Books letters page.

[Grantenfuego]

It will be great to start seeing some real density on the east side. I could see Lloyd in the future being almost an extension of downtown.

[Derek]

In regards to this development and possible future projects: How does one go about lifting the height limitations in downtown/Lloyd District? Can this be undone by the city council?

My question is, why are there height limits?

[zilfondel]

http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=141689953&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10202

[MilwaukeeMark]

My question is, why are there height limits?

The height limit in Portland was established in the early 70s in response to public outcry over potential blockage of Mount Hood views. It's directly linked with the completion of Wells Fargo Center.

A lot of cities have height restrictions. Madison, Wisconsin, for instance, has a limit that restricts building height higher than the state capitol building. Closer to home, Lake Oswego has a limit of something like three stories. It's to ensure a village-like feel.

[RED_PDXer]

The height limits seem plenty big already. 30 or more stories are allowed all over the place. New buildings of that height will certainly add to the skyline and provide sufficient density to make downtown a 24 hour place if just built out a little more. I wonder if the city would actually deny a well-placed, super high rise of 80+ stories with lots of public amenities including a public viewing deck? I doubt it. The post office site in NW may be one such place. Who knows..

Anyway, in 2007 the City published a building capacity study for the central city that showed capacity for over 100 million square feet of development feasible over the next years. It would take 40-60 years to build out this area at a rate of 2 million square feet per year - quite a bit more than we've seen over last 20 years. Also, this study assumed no new development in the central eastside industrial sanctuary area (more than a block or two from MLK/Grand). There's probably just as much capacity there if the zoning was changed and the waterfront restored for urban development.

[2oh1]

I could see Lloyd in the future being almost an extension of downtown.

I can't imagine it - but I only say that because of how low my opinion of Lloyd Center is, which is based on what I know Lloyd Center to be. This could really help change that. I'll be thrilled if you're right, and there sure is plenty of potential for good things there. This project in particular really excites me.

[MilwaukeeMark]

I can't imagine it - but I only say that because of how low my opinion of Lloyd Center is, which is based on what I know Lloyd Center to be. This could really help change that. I'll be thrilled if you're right, and there sure is plenty of potential for good things there. This project in particular really excites me.

I moved here about two years ago and I do not have the same perception as you. My fiance works in one of the Lloyd Center towers (PacifiCorp) and I visit often for lunch, etc.. I enjoy the area quite a bit. Holladay Park is real nice and the neighborhoods around the mall are good for walking. The mall isn't full of the most amazing shops in the world (in fact, it's kinda empty, especially with H&M buying so many stores out) but it's not terrible by any stretch. I think a development like this will certainly be an extension of downtown - definitely more than South Waterfront is. As an outsider, I was actually pretty surprised to see South Waterfront built up like it is. Across the river at Lloyd Center is obviously the more choice location. I am very excited to see this project move forward.

[bvpcvm]

The DJC chimes in (http://djcoregon.com/news/2012/03/06/4-tower-superblock-planned-for-portlands-lloyd-district/).

MilwaukeeMark, the mall doesn't interact with the neighborhood at all, it's like a giant retail citadel that sucks the life out of the streets around it.

The South Waterfront was developed so that OHSU could expand while still remaining in the city. The alternative was to build a campus out at Tanasbourne, and take all those jobs with it.

[Welkin]

I love the fact that 750 apartments are going up in the Lloyd, but was that a misprint on the cost of the development? $250 million for 750 apartments comes to over $333,000 per apartment. That seems awful high. I wonder what kind of rate they expect to get in order to make that high of a cost per unit financially justifiable. I thought that 1 bedrooms were going around $950 and two bedrooms in the $1,400 or so range. That's pushing a 30-year return rate. What am I missing? Are there other revenue generators in the overall project such large amounts of retail development?

[mmeade]

I love the fact that 750 apartments are going up in the Lloyd, but was that a misprint on the cost of the development? $250 million for 750 apartments comes to over $333,000 per apartment. That seems awful high. I wonder what kind of rate they expect to get in order to make that high of a cost per unit financially justifiable. I thought that 1 bedrooms were going around $950 and two bedrooms in the $1,400 or so range. That's pushing a 30-year return rate. What am I missing? Are there other revenue generators in the overall project such large amounts of retail development?
from the DJC article:
820,000 square feet of residential space
50,000 square feet of retail space, where parking exists now.
Additionally, the property has 240,000 square feet of existing office space primarily in the Lloyd 700 Building.

[MarkDaMan]

Only 50,000 square feet of retail for a project this large? Even though Safeway is just a few blocks away, I think a Zupans/Trader Joes/Whole Foods type store would thrive in the location. A second downtown Apple or Target store or a CB2, or a thousand other destination retailers that would thrive being located next to Oregon's largest shopping center. Even better, they would be opening up to the street or MAX line instead of the interior of the mall.

[PacificNW]

Update:


http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=133720566607757000

[pdxtraveler]

Good to see news is still coming out on this project. I am still nervous it won't be built! It would be SO great for the area, which has so much potential.

[tworivers]

^^^ Seriously. I will be AMAZED if this gets built, particularly at the heights proposed. I also wonder if a project with so many units will hasten what looks like an inevitable glut of apartments in PDX.

We need more projects like this all over the central city, along with about a million or two more people to fill them and turn Portland into a cosmopolitan metropolis where people throng the streets day and night.
One can dream.

[65MAX]

Glut of apartments? Portland has some of the lowest vacancy rates in the country. We need MORE projects like this because that's where most future Portlanders will be living.

[downtownpdx]

[QUOTE=tworivers;5705349 We need more projects like this all over the central city[/QUOTE]

I love this proposal but can't help but wish it was located somewhere around the former SW 3rd & Oak proposal, or on any of the central DT area surface lots. Can't wait to see some new high-rise action nonetheless... Lloyd deperately needs exactly what this project would bring in terms of modern high-rise action and mixed-use at street-level.

[2oh1]

I also wonder if a project with so many units will hasten what looks like an inevitable glut of apartments in PDX.

There is absolutely positively no glut of apartments in Portland. We have the opposite problem. I do worry that we'll see the same mistakes from the condo market happen with rentals, where a ton of high priced units are built, but almost nothing affordable. Time will tell. Between 1998 and 2003, condos were being built downtown with prices starting below $140,000. The Roosevelt, Cornerstone, The Mosaic, for example. If I'm not mistaken, two of those three started at under $100,000. By the end of the decade, prices were almost always $250,000 plus - often double that. There was so much greed. People were buying more than they could afford. Developers were building projects priced beyond what the city needed in an attempt at a get rich quick cash grab. What a mess. I really hope the same thing doesn't happen again with apartments. Portland needs apartments badly, but if a similar sky-is-the-limit approach is taken, it'll be a disaster. We'll end up with hard to fill luxury apartments and we'll still have a lack of affordable housing.

Portland's population is growing rapidly. I don't think there will be a glut of apartments. The question is whether there will be a glut of apartments Portlanders can't afford to rent.

[RainDog]

I've noticed quite a few projects being built or proposed that are built with affordability in mind. No car parking, small sizes and so on. Hopefully that trend continues.

[Grantenfuego]

Ruff believes that if Langley's project is successful, it will inspire a number of other large-scale development projects in the Lloyd District. He notes that numerous studies have documented surface parking lots and other under-utilized properties throughout the area that could support tall office, commercial and residential buildings. Such densities are allowed under the zoning policies the council adopted to carry out the Central City Plan.

Very exciting.

[Sioux612]

I'm interested in seeing the height limits.

Tall-tall (500'+) or Tall for Portland (325')

[PacificNW]

:previous: Wasn't it a group of people (committee, city council, or commission) who decided what the limits should be? It can be changed, IMO.

[davehogan]

Portland's population is growing rapidly. I don't think there will be a glut of apartments. The question is whether there will be a glut of apartments Portlanders can't afford to rent.

I have a feeling what will happen is what I've seen in other markets, where high end apartments are built, driving down prices of what used to be high end slightly while those push down prices slightly for the mid range ones. Affordable ones get forgotten until the mid range ones age/are neglecting enough that they're not mid range anymore. That's how it seemed to work in LA and San Diego, anyway.

It still led to a crappy studio in a decent neighborhood being $800/mo, but, well, that's the corner we seem to be painting ourselves into.

[tworivers]

Sorry, but I'm skeptical 1) that PDX's population is growing rapidly at the moment (does anyone have numbers for the recession years?) or that Metro's population projections can be counted on... and 2) because, despite the low vacancy rates, PDX is small enough that the actual numbers needed to create a glut might be less than we like to imagine. That is pure hunch on my part; I hope I'm wrong because I desperately want to see vastly greater residential densities in the central city.

[BrG]

There was so much greed. People were buying more than they could afford. ......... Developers were building projects priced beyond what the city needed in an attempt at a get rich quick cash grab. What a mess. ..... I really hope the same thing doesn't happen again with apartments. Portland needs apartments badly, but if a similar sky-is-the-limit approach is taken, it'll be a disaster.

This tells me that you likely don't understand the economics of new construction at that time, and also now.

First: The raw material costs and total construction costs per sf in the early 2000's translated into far cheaper $/sf sale prices for new units than in the last 5 years. That's disregarding the real estate market entirely, and just focusing on raw materials (structural steel has been extremely expensive for several years, for example)

Second: There is NOTHING about real estate development in multi-family housing that is "get rich quick /cash grab".

It's very high risk for all involved, very very expensive, and anything but quick. Unless you think 'quick' is a minimum of several years of day to day, financially high risk work, spending lots of your own money, with not a dime in revenue from a project that does not yet exist.

Bottom line, is that the larger projects are barely plausible to commercial lenders at a cost that ALREADY translates to rather high $/sf rents in a believable ProForma. It's a HUGE challenge to even make a 'break-even' case for any 'affordable' project, without significant taxpayer subsidies.

Which sucks....because like you said...this town needs housing. For real people.

If the Lloyd project can be pulled off at the scale that is envisioned, it will be a huge accomplishment in anything that resembles this economic development climate.

[2oh1]

This tells me that you likely don't understand the economics of new construction at that time, and also now.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't work in the industry and, thus, I see it from an outsider's point of view. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, it sure seemed like at the height of the housing bubble, far too many of the projects being built in the urban core were aimed at the fewest buyers: the very wealthy. If you're saying it's impossible to build homes in or around downtown for under $200,000, then I guess the situation is hopeless for the working class (though it's interesting that the Cornerstone Condos building opened in 2000 and prices there started at under $100,000 for 465 square feet, downtown, and nearby, the Mosaic was finished in 2003 with units starting at $135K - again, new construction. Downtown).

I do understand the raw materials aspect of it. I understand in that prices for steel, etc, skyrocketed, and no, I don't understand why that is though I do understand it's not developers' fault.

Like I said, I could definitely be wrong, but it sure looked like buildings such as the 937, the Encore and others in the Pearl (not to mention South Waterfront) aimed too high, price wise and luxury-wise. And the developers got burned because there were too many luxury units on the market. Even before the crash, there were struggles to sell them. And even during the worst of the recession, housing in the city under $200K was selling, though that slowed once the credit crunch hit - but it wasn't a case of a lack of buyers so much as it was a case of buyers who couldn't get loans once banks stopped lending.

Hey, I understand that it's a business. I assume developers had research that gave them guidance for predicting sales at certain price points, and I understand that certain projects only got built because the assumption was they'd pencil out as their sky-high luxury units sold. There was so much talk in 2007/2008 about empty nesters and retirees looking to downsize. I think - and, again, I could be wrong, but - I think too many of those involved bought into their own hype. Hell... I remember touring an apartment in the Lexis by Hoyt. Maybe you're thinking "Those aren't apartments. They're condos." Well, they were designed and built as apartments, but at the very last minute - so late in the process that they were beginning to lease them - the property was changed to condos rather than apartments. But, hey, that wasn't a get rich quick cash grab at all. Of course not. They probably flipped them to condos so they could fund an orphanage somewhere.

I do realize projects like the 937 (for example) wouldn't have been built if they didn't aim for such high price points. But I wonder what might have been built instead. Surely, whatever would have been built wouldn't be as marvelous (again, using the 937 building as an example... I happen to love that building, personally). But would the Pearl be better off with fewer awesome luxury projects and more smaller places Portlanders can afford to live in? Maybe 8 stories of good is better than 20 stories of wow. Maybe that's not even possible.

I'm not saying all developers are crooked, nor am I saying they could all easily build towers of affordable lofts. I'm just saying there was a lot of greed in the height of the housing bubble. And I'm saying that I hope it isn't going to happen again any time soon. I'm saying that I hope lessons were learned.

Of course, I could be wrong there too. Perhaps there wasn't any greed at all.

I am excited about this particular project, even if it does end up being as pricy as I suspect it will. Lloyd Center has a lot to offer, and this could be a huge step toward creating a lot more housing demand there as it starts to become an actual neighborhood. It could be one heck of a catalyst.

I am for this project in a very big way.

[bvpcvm]

ahem. surprised no one's posted this (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/webdrawer/rec/5086823/view) yet.

[bvpcvm]

ooh, and one of those buildings includes a grocery store

[MarkDaMan]

:banana::banana:

Sweet, I normally check the LU notices on Friday. YAY!

[pdxtraveler]

ahem. surprised no one's posted this (http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/webdrawer/rec/5086823/view) yet.

I meant to yesterday but didn't get around to it!

I noticed that the tallest building lost 7 floors from the initial articles. But still very pleased with the project.

I used to work in the 700 Lloyd Building and still go to the dentist there. According to the hygenist they have had meetings with the tenants and are trying for construction early next year.

VERY exciting for the area. I think it will really change the feel.

[Sioux612]

For some odd reason that link wont work for me, any pictures of the revised plans?

[zilfondel]

Whats with the mini apartment building? Its dwarfed by the rest of the development.

[bvpcvm]

For some odd reason that link wont work for me, any pictures of the revised plans?

i'm not sure what the deal is, but some links from that site don't work for me either. others do. in this case, i had to download it to my desktop and then it opened just fine.

[MarkDaMan]

Same problem for me. Only thing I can think of is I used Firefox at work and it opens fine, I use Chrome at home and I have to save the download to my computer first. I've had some other strange problems with my current Chrome update so I'm blaming that!

[PacificNW]

:previous: Yup...I usually use Chrome and have to save the pdf file prior to viewing... When I use Safari it automatically saves in my download folder.....this just started happening when I upgraded Adobe.... I understand from a help forum it may have to do with whether your particular browser is set for 32 or 64 bit....I understand Adobe files won't open if set to 64 bit... Easy to open from my downloads folder...

Btw, opens fine on my iPad....no 2nd steps....

[maccoinnich]

It's hard to tell from the low quality scan, but it looks like they're proposing reinstating NE Hassalo street through that block. Which is great from an urban design POV.

[tworivers]

24 stories... would that be the tallest in Lloyd?

I wonder if they have a grocery tenant on board yet...

[maccoinnich]

Also worth noting: the elevations look a lot more opaque than the glassy towers presented back in March. Very Brewery Blocks. And having walked through the Brewery Blocks this afternoon, that's no bad thing.

I wonder if they have a grocery tenant on board yet...

I'd be surprised if they didn't, because it's a huge risk to create retail spaces of that size that aren't pre-let. I'm trying to thing of grocery chains that don't already have a presence in inner NE. Safeway, Whole Foods and New Seasons all have (or will have) stores nearby. Fred Meyer and Trader Joe's have stores just a little further away. Perhaps Zupan's or Albertsons?

[bvpcvm]

Remember the enormous multi-building project in the Lloyd District? If I'm reading it correctly, it's been scaled back a bit.

The page for permits on this block (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657) appears to list 3 projects, each of which had some sort of permitting activity in July, followed by new permitting activity on January 3rd.

Building 1 was 24 stories (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&folder=3191902&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657), now 6 (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&folder=3259336&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657). Includes fewer units that initially planned.
Building 2 was 20 stories (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&folder=3191905&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657), now 18 (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&folder=3259373&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657). More units, however.
Building 3 was two 6-story buildings (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&folder=3191906&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657), now 1 (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Permits&folder=3259384&propertyid=R182228&state_id=1N1E35BB%20%202800&address_id=626794&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649363.561&y=687099.646&place=700%20NE%20MULTNOMAH%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136657). Also has more units than initially planned.

[MarkDaMan]

I read it the same way. This is incredibly disappointing. On SO many levels.

[RED_PDXer]

Glad to see it's still happening in some form. Sounds like maybe 100 fewer units. No biggie. There's still plenty of other parking lots to develop on. This is only the beginning...

[tworivers]

Hate to be Debbie Downer yet again but this is so Portland. Seems like almost every tower gets cut down eventually and I had a feeling that would happen with this project. It just seemed too good to be true. Is it like this in every city?

I agree with RED_PDXer, though. It will be great to have that block filled in. And if the lower heights/density mean that greater demand is left for continued development elsewhere, even better.

[Grantenfuego]

As disappointing as this is, it keeps with Portland's trend of being a more European city in the US. Narrow streets, smaller blocks, smaller buildings.

[pdxtraveler]

Hate to be Debbie Downer yet again but this is so Portland. Seems like almost every tower gets cut down eventually and I had a feeling that would happen with this project. It just seemed too good to be true. Is it like this in every city?


I know we do notice this more about Portland buildings because we are here and we care more about this city, but yes, I see this often in the other threads. Really disappointed about this one though! It would have been neat to have a new tall one!

[PDX City-State]

Disappointing yes, but three new residential buildings in the Lloyd District is huge. Think of the additional amenities that could finally come with density. The only way the Lloyd, Convention, Rose Quarter area will ever become vibrant is if people live there so round the clock retail can be supported. And to put this into perspective, the tallest residential building currently in the Pearl District is 19 stories (the Metropolitan). This is only one story shorter than that. So yes, would have been nice to see more height, but I will take 18 stories over a vacant lot any day of the week. Investment follows people, and this is going to help. :cheers:

[crow]

I know we do notice this more about Portland buildings because we are here and we care more about this city, but yes, I see this often in the other threads. Really disappointed about this one though! It would have been neat to have a new tall one!

I know this is an architecture site, but really at times it is not as much about the architecture that forces changes. Some are economically driven. I hate to state the obvious here, but it has to be said. At times; money, politics, zoning, growth, absorption, market forces...and even costs and availability of construction labor and materials. Even as currently downsized, this project is a VERY ambitious project. It is a catalyst to the area, and not only fills in surface parking lots, but also injects housing…people actually living in the area. A HUGE and much NEEDED change. On top of that this is really more like four projects when you include the underground parking. It is being proposed to happen simultaneously. What is the last project in Portland that saw that kind of construction all at once? The Brewery Blocks is the only one I can think of? Not even South Waterfront.

The Lloyd Blocks project is an urban infill project. It is easy to be a downer about projects when they change, but the big play here is that something is actually moving forward. Now if the Architects and designers could do whatever they wanted, then I am sure it would be a beautiful and lush place. :cheers:

[PDX City-State]

what crow says! :tup:

[Mr. Walch]

I happened to get a chance to talk briefly with one of the GBD architects for the project and he said it scaled back due to cost issues. The numbers kept coming in way to high and they were sent back multiple times to cut money out of the project, leading to the stubby buildings we now see. I can't remember the exact number but it was very substantial. The other nugget he had, which should be clear, is that the developers (Langley, who own lots of other under utilized property in the area) view this as a catalytic project. They are hoping that by dropping so many apartment and a decent grocery store into the neighborhood all at once it will transform the area and people's perception of it. I really hope they succeed. I just read in the Hollywood reporter that they have pushed back their design review meeting so many times that the board said they must be at the one they are currently scheduled for or start the process over.

[philopdx]

Welcome to Portland - it's like Viagra, in reverse!

[maccoinnich]

I just want to add my +1 to what RED_PDXer, PDX City-State, crow and Mr. Walch have said. Sure, it would be nice to have a cluster of towers, but this is still a very ambitious project, that has the potential to transform the district. If they are successful, then it will have a halo effect on the surrounding properties, and make towers more viable in the future as the value of the land increases. It's not like there's a present shortage of car parks that can be developed in the future.

[bvpcvm]

They initially proposed 645 units. Now they've scaled it back to 637. So I think as far as adding vibrancy to the streets goes, it'll be just fine.

[zilfondel]

The downsize is either because the developer cant get a big enough loan, or their pro forma or market analysis doesn't believe that rents can support it.

If they aren't really changing the # of units they were planning on building, the original 24 story tower was likely large luxury units, being scaled back to normal-sized ones.

[PacificNW]

I think Joe Weston is still on board to build his 30+ tower in the district....

[Mr. Walch]

They actually cut a substantial number of units - around 140, the original proposal was for 780. The new plan and the shorter buildings allows them to build most of the project with wood (5 wood apartment levels over a 1 story concrete podium) instead of concrete or steal, a substantial savings. That being said, 640 or what ever it is now is still a massive numer of new units to be dropping into the neighborhood. At 1.5 people per unit thats about 1000 new residents, a nice place for them to shop and some new public space in the midst of the Lloyd wasteland.

[tworivers]

Don't you guys think that this is probably good for the overall health of the Portland rental market? Or does a project of this scale losing 20% of its units even have an effect on the larger market?

Some of you may be able to answer this: I know the vacancy rate is still low, but in a smaller city like Portland just how many rental units do we need to build before we run into over-supply problems? A few thousand? Ten thousand? I don't have the slightest idea but I'm curious.

[Shilo Rune 96]

Some of you may be able to answer this: I know the vacancy rate is still low, but in a smaller city like Portland just how many rental units do we need to build before we run into over-supply problems? A few thousand? Ten thousand? I don't have the slightest idea but I'm curious.

Exactly. This could actually be a good thing, especially since a lot of the mid-rises around town have started finishing up (or will be when this is completed). We can all agree over saturating the rental market is very possible. I hope these units will rent for less than $1,000/month, because we already have so much available for $1k+ in the Pearl and our inner neighborhoods.

[zilfondel]

Considering that over the past year, Portland's residential vacancy rate has basically stayed stable over the past year, reported around 3.6 to 3.7%, there is most definitely a demand for housing!

http://www.oregonlive.com/front-porch/index.ssf/2012/10/portland_apartment_rents_conti.html

Also, it appears that, at least according to Google, Portland's (city) population has grown by ~40,000 since 2008 to ~593,000 (2011):

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=place:4159000&dl=en&hl=en&q=portland%20population

[Mr. Walch]

There are something like seven thousand apartments in the pipeline right now and in the last several months only about 800 units have been delivered, over 200 of them subsidized apartments in the SoWa. The Lloyd project is back a ways in the que so will be probable be coming on line late in the game which could be risky, especially since they will no doubt be charging big rent for Lloyd living (A beautiful flat a short walk from Burger King, Taco Bell and other great dining - take that Pearl, where's your McDonalds?) . Interestingly, Joe Weston decided not to be involved in the latest big Pearl apartment project with Hoyt because he see over building on the horizon. You can read about it here (http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/real-estate-daily/2012/12/hoyt-street-plans-project-without-joe.html?page=all). Of course the way the housing market is going there is the possibility that some of the condos that became apartments after the crash will start switching back reducing inventory. People could also switch to buying houses|condos again lessening demand for apartments. I'm just an armchair real estate observer though. The banks seem confident enough to keep lending and developers bar Joe Weston still seem eager to build.

I really hope the Lloyd project works out. I have been biking through that wasteland in the heart of the city for a decade now and ready for it to grow up and become a great neighborhood.

[pbd]

Here is the design review announcement for the Lloyd Blocks, it has a few drawings.

http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/webdrawer.dll/webdrawer/rec/5514442/view/February%2017,%202013%20-%20EA%2012-168844%20DA%20-%20Second%20Notice.PDF

[pdxtraveler]

Here is the design review announcement for the Lloyd Blocks, it has a few drawings.

http://efiles.portlandoregon.gov/webdrawer.dll/webdrawer/rec/5514442/view/February%2017,%202013%20-%20EA%2012-168844%20DA%20-%20Second%20Notice.PDF


It looks good! My earlier post of disappointment is only about what could have been. This would have been sooo exciting without the build up! I really am excited for the area with this plan as well.

[bvpcvm]

I like the fact that they're reinstating the street grid, and I'm glad to finally see this parking lot disappear. Too bad they've scaled back (now down to 17 stories), but the main thing is what happens at street level.

[PDX City-State]

Too bad they've scaled back (now down to 17 stories), but the main thing is what happens at street level.

This is so true. I spend a lot of time in Austin, where they've built some very tall apartment towers with lackluster or in some cases no ground floor retail. They look pretty from a distance, but are dead when you walk by.

[downtownpdx]

It'll still be nice to see a crane or two around there, even if they don't exactly soar over the Lloyd skyline.

[65MAX]

Well, this project and the new Convention hotel should be going up simultaneously. Isn't the hotel supposed to be 25 floors?

[65MAX]

Yes, 25 stories. And this from the Business Journal last month...


Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2012, 10:26am PST

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...t.html?s=print

Quote:
A 600-room Hyatt-flagged hotel could be constructed at the Oregon Convention Center with little impact on the public purse, a Portland developer says Barry Schlesinger, principal with the Schlesinger Cos., is teaming with Mortenson Development and Hyatt Hotels Corp. to advance the hotel at the Oregon Convention Center.

The team is negotiating a development agreement with Metro, the regional government. It aims to break ground by late 2013 on a site immediately north of the convention center, 777 N.E. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. The goal is to open the hotel, the long missing piece of Oregon’s convention industry, by late 2015.

[RainDog]

I was under the impression it was going to be in the 15-16 story range....

[zilfondel]

None of those links above work anymore.

[65MAX]

Hmm, I guess that link expired. Anyway, the point is there will be two towers going up in Lloyd starting later this year. Lots to look forward to. :)

[bvpcvm]

The link to the drawings (efiles.portlandoregon.gov) caused me all kinds of problmes - I could not open it at all in Chrome (I got a duplicate headers received error), but did manage to open it using Firefox, but even then I had to save it somewhere and then open it w/o the browser.

[urbanlife]

I like the fact that they're reinstating the street grid, and I'm glad to finally see this parking lot disappear. Too bad they've scaled back (now down to 17 stories), but the main thing is what happens at street level.

That was my thought too, good to see some progressive development happening in the Lloyd District that better mimics downtown Portland.

[zilfondel]

I decided to be nice and host the file for everyone, since this is kind of a big deal for the Lloyd:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Ve3EX3dpMbbHl6ekhaSGFGMVk/edit


I like the fact that they're reinstating the street grid, and I'm glad to finally see this parking lot disappear. Too bad they've scaled back (now down to 17 stories), but the main thing is what happens at street level.

I'm not so sure that putting through streets through there is a great idea - there is already a lot of auto infrastructure in the Lloyd. That and the 1,200 extra below-grade parking (1:2 ratio of units to parking, no less!) could be a large reason they had to scale the buildings so far back. That much parking probably cost in the ballpark of $60 million - a very large slice of the total development costs.

I wonder why they decided they needed so much parking when there are what, 20+ residential projects in Portland that are going ahead with ZERO parking?

Probably getting money from a traditional lending agency that has very rigid rules, but nonetheless odd. They will likely never fill that parking up.

Anyways, I digress. The space between those 4 buildings would have made a great linear park or space for the residents, instead of just another street in Portland on a grid! Lost opportunity - see the PAM plaza block for inspiration.

[65MAX]

I disagree, I think reinstating the grid will be great for the overall health of the development. It's the superblocks in the Lloyd District that kill the walkability of the area. Also, I believe that Hassalo is designated for auto traffic while 8th is designed primarily as a pedestrian corridor with bioswales, wide walkways and limited access for autos. It would be very similar to the linear park idea you described. And it will tie in really well with Oregon Square's 8th Ave walkway that terminates at the domed Oregon State Bldg.

[JG573]

I disagree, I think reinstating the grid will be great for the overall health of the development. It's the superblocks in the Lloyd District that kill the walkability of the area. Also, I believe that Hassalo is designated for auto traffic while 8th is designed primarily as a pedestrian corridor with bioswales, wide walkways and limited access for autos. It would be very similar to the linear park idea you described. And it will tie in really well with Oregon Square's 8th Ave walkway that terminates at the domed Oregon State Bldg.

I agree the gird will be great but just as long as they make it more pedestrian oriented.

[tworivers]

Wish I could read the rest of this.


Lloyd District ‘superblock’ reduces in height (access required)
POSTED: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 05:29 PM PT
BY: Reed Jackson
The proposed Lloyd Blocks housing development created a buzz last year because of its massive size. It was originally planned to include 820,000 square feet total of residential space and 50,000 square feet of retail space. However, at a Portland Design Commission hearing last week, the proposed project looked much less like a “superblock.”

Read more: http://djcoregon.com/news/2013/02/13/lloyd-district-superblock-reduces-in-height/#ixzz2KtecMojA

http://djcoregon.com/files/2013/02/0221_lloyd_super_block_GBD-300x210.jpg

[maccoinnich]

However, at a Portland Design Commission hearing last week, the proposed project looked much less like a “superblock.”

No, it looked to be exactly as much of a superblock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_block#Superblock) as it did before. The term refers to blocks that are much larger in area than traditional city blocks. In this case, the blocks covers the area that would normally be four separate blocks.

[PDX City-State]

This is still a very significant development.

Tall towers look great from a distance, but what happens on the street level is what's most important. This is a key lynchpin development that will make a huge stride in making a neighborhood out of the Lloyd District. I can't wait to see it rise.

[MarkDaMan]

I'm confused, is this the 'super-block' or something new?


Apr 1, 2013, 10:45am PDT
Could a 20-story apartment tower be coming to the Lloyd District?
Wendy Culverwell
Real Estate Daily editor- Portland Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/2013/04/american-assets-wagers-big-on-lloyd.html?ana=e_ptl_real&s=newsletter&ed=2013-04-01&u=kFaEqOvgXoyG8/wIKsmMtmSIXCT

A 20-story tower with 238 apartments and ground-floor retail space could be the start of something big in the Lloyd District for a San Diego real estate investment firm.

American Assets Trust is seeking permission to construct the apartment project at Northeast Holladay Street and Ninth Avenue from the city of Portland.

The real estate trust submitted a permit request to the city’s major projects group on March 18. The project is under review.

...

The Lloyd portfolio included a development project that could add as many as 750 apartments and other amenities. At the time, it said it would press ahead with the development.

[bvpcvm]

I think this is a different project. For one thing, per PortlandMap.com, the owner (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Assessor&propertyid=R182231&state_id=1N1E35BC%20%20100&address_id=626829&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649417.163&y=686565.643&place=830%20NE%20HOLLADAY%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136981) of the *southwest* corner of NE 9th and Hollday is listed as AAT Lloyd District, LLC, based in San Diego - apparently American Asset Trust. The current building in that location is a non-descript 2-story office building.

[bvpcvm]

Oh, and another thing is that the superblock's tallest building is only 16 stories.

[bvpcvm]

Actually, to clarify, the entire block, between 7th, 9th, Holladay and Oregon, which includes the little gazebo across from the MAX station, is owned by AAT. It's roughly the same size as the superblock to the north.

[maccoinnich]

I've always thought that was a handsome little building, and I'd be sad to see it go, especially when there are so many easily developable lots in the Lloyd District.

[MarkDaMan]

I think this is a different project. For one thing, per PortlandMap.com, the owner (http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Assessor&propertyid=R182231&state_id=1N1E35BC%20%20100&address_id=626829&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7649417.163&y=686565.643&place=830%20NE%20HOLLADAY%20ST&city=PORTLAND&neighborhood=LLOYD%20DISTRICT&seg_id=136981) of the *southwest* corner of NE 9th and Hollday is listed as AAT Lloyd District, LLC, based in San Diego - apparently American Asset Trust. The current building in that location is a non-descript 2-story office building.

They own each of the blocks that make the entire super block too according to Portland Maps. Perhaps the height of the tower has gone up a little? Would be nice.