[St. John's] APP Hotel | 11 Floors | Proposed

[jeddy1989]

This is for a three story extension on the top of the Atlantic Place Garage.

http://i.imgur.com/JJqWzd0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/a59ifRf.jpg

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here's some slides about the project:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/972277_10151661851921310_1124997903_n.jpg

What's there now:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1000913_10151661851931310_53176521_n.jpg

Floor plan options:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1003642_10151661851891310_1190093219_n.jpg

more renders (Low Quality :( )

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/10547_10151661852016310_2088041785_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1011898_10151661852046310_1992996317_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941932_10151661852066310_410033162_n.jpg

All from http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/files/CSJ_FileUpload/Planning/Clift%27s%20Baird%27s%20Cove.pdf

[jeddy1989]

Time for a new thread? A public meeting for the Atlantic Place Parking Garage Hotel (dubbed APP Hotel) will be held July 4. Here's a background on the development!

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/files/CSJ_FileUpload/Planning/Clift%27s%20Baird%27s%20Cove.pdf

here you go :) and thanks! I'm going to post some images from that document

[PoscStudent]

Wish they could have used high quality pictures.

[SignalHillHiker]

So excited. :)

[Copes]

I think its ugly.

I think what is there now is uglier.

But its still ugly.

I don't like the colors, they look bad on top of a brown brick.

Perhaps higher quality renders would sway me.

[SignalHillHiker]

Maybe they can get Skittles to cover the cost of highest-quality materials?

[jeddy1989]

I think they need to show better quality renders

[Townie709]

I really like the look of the top portion, but whatever it looks like they're doing to the garage looks horrible. It looks like they're just going to throw coloured chicken wire over the disgusting brown brick that is there now, and by doing so they don't even cover up the brown brick. You still see it.

If they want to sway me I need better renders showcasing what this is actually going to look like in real life and all these cool light features that will make the garage unrecognizable. I'm just worried were going to be saddled with an even more prominent eyesore.

[AllBlack]

Wish they could have used high quality pictures.

Me too.

From what I see here it's hideous, perhaps as hideous as what's there now. Well maybe not worse than a rusted steel & brick garage... but close.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'm not worried at all. Not even a little bit. :) Even if it's as blurry as in the renders... I'll be thrilled. :D

[jeddy1989]

I really like the look of the top portion, but whatever it looks like they're doing to the garage looks horrible. It looks like they're just going to throw coloured chicken wire over the disgusting brown brick that is there now, and by doing so they don't even cover up the brown brick. You still see it.

If they want to sway me I need better renders showcasing what this is actually going to look like in real life and all these cool light features that will make the garage unrecognizable. I'm just worried were going to be saddled with an even more prominent eyesore.

I really think these are just low quality initial renders

another example:

http://www.pbase.com/image/128571789.jpg

turned into this:

http://i.imgur.com/GohzOOS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZcQz2qL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sRkeLcp.jpg

[Townie709]

I realize these are just preliminary renders. I love the concept of the proposal and I love the top portion. I'm just not too convinced of the overall product (especially the garage portion) at this time. Once some higher quality renders are made public, I will be able to judge this project.

I am in love with the concept and what the developer is trying to achieve, they just need to convince me it will look good! :cool:

[PoscStudent]

I love the entrance area from Harbour Drive, I don't mind the hotel portion but I think there's a but to much colour going on there, and I don't mind the garage portion in some images. I'd like to know more about the screening and what the can do, on page 8 the picture of the garage in the bottom corner looks interesting.

[A325]

I'm definitely not a fan of the multi-colored facade on this project. I think it worked well on Star of the Sea and Bennett House but not with the scale of this building.

I wish they had opted for a colonial-style re-clad with some modern curtain wall glazing.

This colored chicken wire seems like a real cheap way out.

[mrjanejacobs]

What garbage renderings - I don't see why Philip Pratt and Sonco are using architectural rendering software from the 1980s. This kind of quality work would fail you out of architecture school. How embarrassing...

I think the design is fine, however, the coloration of the Harbour Drive facade is definitely excessive.

But a colonial style re-clad? C'mon. That's the worst kind of way of "respecting heritage". If it never was a colonial building, then it shouldn't have a faux-colonial cladding.

We're in the 21st century - it's time to build architecture in tune with the era. With that said, I don't think our era is as colourful as this design suggests...

[SignalHillHiker]

Reading that post was like watching a tennis match. Right, left, right, left, right left. :haha: I love it.

It is a pity the renderings are so bad. Fortis Place-quality renderings should be the norm these days.

But... they don't have the final design yet, I'm sure. So they probably don't want to show too much detail yet.

[mrjanejacobs]

Oh - no, it would be way too premature to see that level of detail in concept renderings. It's not the level of detail I'm annoyed by - it's the quality and execution. It's the ultimate pet-peeve when I see cartoonish renderings.

To be fair, the renderings for Fortis were just ok :P

You should see some of the stuff done my students at my school - phew - they're better than photographs.

[SignalHillHiker]

Better than the Fortis ones? Can you share one? I thought the Fortis ones were photo quality. In the main highrise thread, one guy even commented that he got confused because he thought the renderings showed the finished structure:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201219

http://www.fortisplace.com/images/1_b.jpg

[mrjanejacobs]

Haha it's fantastic for St.John's development standards - I'll dig up some renderings later and post them!

[statbass]

It might just be the renderings, but I not a big fan of this design. Prove me wrong, APP!

[A325]

Originally I thought Groupe Germain were in on this so I was kinda of hoping the hotel would look like their hotel in Quebec City but with some modern elements:

http://www.groupegermain.com/img/groupegermain/honors/honors-07.jpg

http://www.germaindominion.com/assets/a90506f218a1424bbead83bf64b897d6_DOM_Exterior_1280x620.jpg

Maybe that is not really "Colonial" but I like the concept of "old meets new" for St. John's.

I'm not sure who is doing Philip Pratt's renders these days cause I think he's retired (especially jusging by his gmail business account on the bottom of every page). Given his age he's probably not in tune with the latest architectural software packages. At this very preliminary concept stage they are good enough to get the idea across. I'm sure they'll improve as the project progresses.

[Marty_Mcfly]

I think Group Germain are still eyeing space for a hotel in the city, so we could see something absolutely stunning pop up in the short term.

As for the renders, I find it difficult to really judge anything based on the quality. I'd really like to know what's up with the screening. Is it just colored mesh or something more? That'd be a game changer. Really though, anything is better than what's there now. And I'm really liking what's planned for the Harbour Drive entrance. Bringing some quality down to the street scape :)

[PoscStudent]

They're able to change the patterns and colour of the mesh or something so that's kind of cool.

[Architype]

Hey, a new thread - exciting!

Because I'm all for building upwards, in theory I think this is a good project. But, seeing that it's ugly now; will it be even uglier? - I doubt it. I do have an issue with the statement that it "will not affect any public views" though; the public views of buildings such as the Anglican Cathedral will be blocked when viewed from points on the Southside. I would probably be happier if they were building on top of Atlantic Place instead. As for the treatment of the façade, it also reminds me of throwing a multi coloured table cloth over an ugly table. Maybe it will be curiously odd or even ugly, but not worse than what already exists.

[JCE]

http://i.imgur.com/dTfbzLbl.jpg

[SignalHillHiker]

Superstar. :D

[Copes]

It looks like a lolipop on top of a brick or something.

[SignalHillHiker]

To me it looks like a shipping container being picked up by a crane. At gay pride.

[PoscStudent]

I hope they simplify the hotel a bit, I think all the colour is just making it look bad. I want something bright, but this is a lot.

[SignalHillHiker]

Maybe if the parkade was white underneath? I find white parkades less offensive than most.

[Townie709]

The hotel portion looks excellent. I wouldn't change a thing about it and I also love the increased sidewalk space and making harbour drive more functional and pedestrian friendly. It's just the garage that I don't like. That brown brick has to go. I want no reminder of the piece of crap that's there now. Just throwing mesh over it seems to be a very cheap way around actually changing the look of the garage.

As always, I still support the proposal, I just want to hear more about what they plan to do with the garage. And PoscStudent, I wouldn't worry too much about the colours at this point. I'm sure they'll be changed 1000 times before this is actually built :haha:

[SignalHillHiker]

Something like these coloured panels on the left would look GREAT on top of the parkade, underneath the same hotel design.

http://i39.tinypic.com/4sjjb8.jpg
(Friend's FB photo from London, U.K.)

[crackiedog]

I am all for the idea of putting a hotel on top of the parking garage but I have to be honest, this design just doesn't do much for me. I think posc got it right. Maybe there is too much color. It works great on smaller projects like star of the sea and bennett house but it just doesn't look right to me for this design. The other major problem I have is that by making it the same height as Atlantic Place we now have a huge wall across the harbourfront. I wish they could have proposed a smaller footprint but double the stories to 6. At least that would have broken up the skyline a bit. Not sold on the mesh idea either. Is it going to be made of some plastic/composite material or steel. How low maintenance will it be? How solid will it be? Is it something that could be easily broken away? I guess that we need to see more details. The only thing I do like is the way they are putting the entrance on harbour drive with the atrium.

By the way when did harbour drive become a 6 line divided highway with a grass median?

[SignalHillHiker]

:haha:

Nnnooo... don't make Harbour Drive any bigger.

I can't wait for this one to be done. I won't have to cut the city in half when I'm taking pictures. YAY!

[ajcoffey]

Telegram article this morning on the new proposal.

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2013-06-14/article-3276938/Proposed-rooftop-hotel-would-drastically-change-Atlantic-Place-parking-garage/1

[SignalHillHiker]

I love their lede! :haha:

[crackiedog]

:haha:

Nnnooo... don't make Harbour Drive any bigger.

I can't wait for this one to be done. I won't have to cut the city in half when I'm taking pictures. YAY!

Actually the telegram article talks about reducing lane sizes on harbour drive to make room for a wider sidewalk in front of AP, which is a good thing!

[Townie709]

Expect a story on the AP development tonight on "here and now". Just saw a cbc cameraman and reporter interviewing people right next to the parkade.

[PoscStudent]

Maybe if the parkade was white underneath? I find white parkades less offensive than most.

I was actually thinking they should paint the brick too, probably more maintenance in the future. You can bring it up at the public meeting. :)

I really like the newer building in Halifax that has red glass balconies (google red balconies Halifax, I think we discussed this before) and I think that idea could be cool here. Go with a plainer colour for the actual hotel but have coloured glass balconies. Three different colour balconies for each level could look cool.

[SignalHillHiker]

I was actually thinking they should paint the brick too, probably more maintenance in the future. You can bring it up at the public meeting. :)

I really like the newer building in Halifax that has red glass balconies (google red balconies Halifax, I think we discussed this before) and I think that idea could be cool here. Go with a plainer colour for the actual hotel but have coloured glass balconies. Three different colour balconies for each level could look cool.

I really like that building as well. :)

[Horsell]

Forget for a minute the colors, forget for a minute the materials, forget for a minute the attempt to add some value to the property, what you really have here is a blatant attempt to dazzle and confuse in order to circumvent regulations.

The bottom line here is that no matter what this addition will ultimately look, like the reality is that it will extend an 11 story wall along the waterfront and set a precedent that could lead to that wall being further extended. Remember the Fortis proposal, hmmm, perhaps they should come back to the table with a revised 11 story “block” instead of the 15 story tower, and the hotel at 123 Water, didn’t they scale back from 11 stories to 8? Where has that left them?

This is not so much the thin edge of the wedge but more of a very THICK edge of the wedge.

I blame council for this as much as anyone, their attempt to rezone the AP Garage site due to its “historical” use as a parking lot has forced the developer’s hand to come back with a proposal that enhances the value of their investment. (The details in the document outline the process that was taking place behind closed doors).

My guess is that given their “druthers” SONCO would much rather bulldoze the garage and put up a nice hotel (within the guidelines) but this council is so obsessed with parking that they want to force the issue.

I have a feeling that the loudest fireworks on the 4th of July will be at the public meeting at City Hall, not over the skies of Washington.

[Townie709]

I have a feeling that the loudest fireworks on the 4th of July will be at the public meeting at City Hall, not over the skies of Washington.

Very clever... :haha:

Haha I disagree with this point though, I have a feeling this proposal will see very little opposition. It virtually destroys nobodies view of the harbour and sadly that is all that our selfish citizens care about. Everyone else is in support of it because it takes an old eyesore that everyone hates and turns it into a different kind of an eyesore that we'll hate in another 40 years :haha:

Seriously though, I think this will turn out alright and will see very little opposition.

[Townie709]

Yup, There's a story 5:30 on Here and Now about the APP Hotel.

On a side note, I hate people. The guy on the preview was like "Why do we even need another new hotel? People always complain that we need more parking." No sir, you are an idiot. The hotel goes on top of the parkade. Dumbass.

[ajcoffey]

Here is almost 5 minutes of video talking to people downtown about the proposal.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/NL/Featured/ID/2391432465/

[Marty_Mcfly]

"Do we really need another hotel downtown. People keep complaining about parking."

Oh boy. We have people who love to kick and holler every time a proposal for downtown is put ahead. Tourists don't come here to see these buildings they say. But in the end of the day they don't care enough to actually build places for these tourists to stay while here, and would rather kick them out of downtown to a hotel on Kenmount Road.

And I also challenge you to find a mid-sized to large city that doesn't have a parking problem downtown. People have to get over the idea that there's going to be one parking spot downtown for every individual in the city, it isn't possible. It can be somewhat of a challenge in St. John's from time to time, but I've never actually had to turn around and drive away from downtown because I couldn't find a spot.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally I thought Groupe Germain were in on this so I was kinda of hoping the hotel would look like their hotel in Quebec City but with some modern elements:

Maybe that is not really "Colonial" but I like the concept of "old meets new" for St. John's.

I'm not sure who is doing Philip Pratt's renders these days cause I think he's retired (especially jusging by his gmail business account on the bottom of every page). Given his age he's probably not in tune with the latest architectural software packages. At this very preliminary concept stage they are good enough to get the idea across. I'm sure they'll improve as the project progresses.

I totally agree. I am infatuated with contemporary architectural design exploring the idea of old meets new. With that said, I want something old in the equation, instead of faux-old. haha

And you're right about Pratt - haha, he's a pretty old guy and surely not up-to-date on all of the tech. We will just hope the quality of the renderings improve (for credibilities sake).

As for the treatment of the façade, it also reminds me of throwing a multi coloured table cloth over an ugly table. Maybe it will be curiously odd or even ugly, but not worse than what already exists.

I agree. Maybe it will be ugly. But I would prefer something more experimental and funky that is ugly than something that is just ugly... I think 'curiously odd' would be great though! I think any attempt at reinventing something defunct should be embraced for creativity's sake!

The bottom line here is that no matter what this addition will ultimately look, like the reality is that it will extend an 11 story wall along the waterfront and set a precedent that could lead to that wall being further extended. Remember the Fortis proposal, hmmm, perhaps they should come back to the table with a revised 11 story “block” instead of the 15 story tower, and the hotel at 123 Water, didn’t they scale back from 11 stories to 8? Where has that left them?

Ahhh - I'm going to have to call fear-mongering on you. Yes, they are circumventing current regulations, but they are also doing a service to the City by reinventing one of the ugliest structures in the downtown district.

These 3 stories can't really be compared with the Fortis proposal for the DT-Eastend...

Also - indeed they are twisting current regulations, but have you ever considered that the regulations in place are out-dated and ineffective?

Very clever... :haha:

Haha I disagree with this point though, I have a feeling this proposal will see very little opposition. It virtually destroys nobodies view of the harbour and sadly that is all that our selfish citizens care about. Everyone else is in support of it because it takes an old eyesore that everyone hates and turns it into a different kind of an eyesore that we'll hate in another 40 years :haha:

Seriously though, I think this will turn out alright and will see very little opposition.

There will be mixed support. But I'm sure there will be lots of opposition. Any development in this part of Water Street will cause a fight. But I trust the opposition will lose on this one.

Here is almost 5 minutes of video talking to people downtown about the proposal.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/NL/Featured/ID/2391432465/

"Do we really need another hotel downtown. People keep complaining about parking."

Oh boy...

And I also challenge you to find a mid-sized to large city that doesn't have a parking problem downtown. People have to get over the idea that there's going to be one parking spot downtown for every individual in the city, it isn't possible. It can be somewhat of a challenge in St. John's from time to time, but I've never actually had to turn around and drive away from downtown because I couldn't find a spot.

Wow - that was a frustrating video. The first 2 were pretty middle-of-the-road and if they had any negative comments, they were a product of the journalist's manipulative wording - "but we're going to lose parking actually..." he'll say trying to instigate some emotional reaction.

The last guy is just annoying. Do people not realize that hotels are built when there is a demand for hotel rooms? haha It's not at random. It's called micro-economics. Demand leads to supply. And maybe the developer doesn't want to build parking! haha too often does the "public" confuse public and private business when talking about development.

But perfect point re downtown parking. It can be annoying. But it's annoying in every City. With that said, I always find a spot sooner or later.

[ed0797]

My sister was the little blonde one with the high voice in the video! I'm surprised she had a pretty positive opinion towards the subject. As one of the other women said though, 351 should ease some of the 'problems' that might arise with the 50 parking spaces they take away. Once the public becomes aware that theres a lot more pros than cons there shouldn't be much of an opposition.

[mrjanejacobs]

Alas, rational thinking doesn't always prevail.

Many members of the public aren't interested in pros and cons. They've already decided their position (and it's never a good thing to be inflexible while on either side of the debate!)

[SignalHillHiker]

I love how 50%+ of that video is the woman who clearly stated she had no opinion on the matter, being prodded to discuss concerns about the development.

[Marty_Mcfly]

I love how 50%+ of that video is the woman who clearly stated she had no opinion on the matter, being prodded to discuss concerns about the development.

Very manipulative interview. "You don't have an opinion? Alright, here are all these negative things how do you feel now?"

In all honesty, do the public even get to park in Atlantic Place Parking? I assume it's probably filled by office personnel for Atlantic Place and Scotia Center by 9am.

[grovesNL]

Here is the corresponding CBC article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/06/14/nl-atlantic-place-hotel-614.html?cmp=rss) (including the video linked above).

[ed0797]

The proposed mesh for the building: http://www.wstyler.com/html/architectural.html (http://www.wstyler.com/html/architectural.html)

I managed to make out the logo in the bottom left picture:https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1011898_10151661852046310_1992996317_n.jpg

It's a steel wire mesh that at it's best can project images with small led's? Seems cool!

[SignalHillHiker]

The proposed mesh for the building:

Nice!

HPzM30q58X8

[Marty_Mcfly]

Here is the corresponding CBC article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/06/14/nl-atlantic-place-hotel-614.html?cmp=rss) (including the video linked above).


Interesting. Of all the things CBC could have quoted in their article they go with that?

[grovesNL]

In all honesty, do the public even get to park in Atlantic Place Parking? I assume it's probably filled by office personnel for Atlantic Place and Scotia Center by 9am.
AP Parking has reserved spaces for special permits, then has monthly payments for regular permits (which are usually given out by businesses), then paid parking (hourly rate) for those without permits. It does fill up pretty fast in the morning, but sometimes there are at least a few spots available during the day. I've parked there midday sometimes (in the higher sections) for paid parking without a problem. Many people don't attempt to park there at all because they're unfamiliar with the parking garage.

[PoscStudent]

Forget for a minute the colors, forget for a minute the materials, forget for a minute the attempt to add some value to the property, what you really have here is a blatant attempt to dazzle and confuse in order to circumvent regulations.

The bottom line here is that no matter what this addition will ultimately look, like the reality is that it will extend an 11 story wall along the waterfront and set a precedent that could lead to that wall being further extended. Remember the Fortis proposal, hmmm, perhaps they should come back to the table with a revised 11 story “block” instead of the 15 story tower, and the hotel at 123 Water, didn’t they scale back from 11 stories to 8? Where has that left them?

This is not so much the thin edge of the wedge but more of a very THICK edge of the wedge.

I blame council for this as much as anyone, their attempt to rezone the AP Garage site due to its “historical” use as a parking lot has forced the developer’s hand to come back with a proposal that enhances the value of their investment. (The details in the document outline the process that was taking place behind closed doors).

My guess is that given their “druthers” SONCO would much rather bulldoze the garage and put up a nice hotel (within the guidelines) but this council is so obsessed with parking that they want to force the issue.

I have a feeling that the loudest fireworks on the 4th of July will be at the public meeting at City Hall, not over the skies of Washington.

Sounds good to me if Fortis came back with another proposal for Water Street and a better proposal came forward for 123 Water.

[niccanning]

Nice!

HPzM30q58X8

cool. the video is like an acid trip though!

[mrjanejacobs]

cool. the video is like an acid trip though!

haha it is.

I like the mesh. Based on the design plans, it doesn't seem like they intend on doing anything too multi-media-oriented. However, I find that these kinds of installations can do a lot to animate the City on a Friday or Saturday night. It would definitely animate the harbour front at night.

[Townie709]

Yeah if it is the actual mesh that lights up as opposed to lights being shone on colored chicken wire, than I have much higher hopes for this proposal, especially at night! I think it would look really cool to have a giant discoball in the center of the city haha. It would definitely liven up Harbour Drive during the night. And if they decided to make some cash of of it, we could have a giant advertising board, visible from signal hill :haha:

[jeddy1989]

Yeah if it is the actual mesh that lights up as opposed to lights being shone on colored chicken wire, than I have much higher hopes for this proposal, especially at night! I think it would look really cool to have a giant discoball in the center of the city haha. It would definitely liven up Harbour Drive during the night. And if they decided to make some cash of of it, we could have a giant advertising board, visible from signal hill :haha:

yeah all the conversation by council was how cool and creative the lighting will be, so I'm confident that it will be something interesting .. and lets be honest anything there will improve that piece of SHYT
I'm excited to learn more and I'm not gonna jump at any conclusions this early .. I mean if Shannie is excited hahhaha it can't be too bad!

[mrjanejacobs]

Yeah if it is the actual mesh that lights up as opposed to lights being shone on colored chicken wire, than I have much higher hopes for this proposal, especially at night! I think it would look really cool to have a giant discoball in the center of the city haha. It would definitely liven up Harbour Drive during the night. And if they decided to make some cash of of it, we could have a giant advertising board, visible from signal hill :haha:

What's the difference? If it looks interesting, then who cares what it's made of. It could be made of chain-link fence and pop cans for all I care as long as it does something to add to the City.

[Townie709]

What's the difference? If it looks interesting, then who cares what it's made of. It could be made of chain-link fence and pop cans for all I care as long as it does something to add to the City.

Really?? This is the first development you have said "who cares what it's made of." normally you're the one to take a massive crap over every design of all projects presented in this city.. what makes this one different? :haha:

[Architype]

What's the difference? If it looks interesting, then who cares what it's made of. It could be made of chain-link fence and pop cans for all I care as long as it does something to add to the City.

I think I agree, the restrictions on development, compared to everywhere else have been so awful that almost anything new in the core is welcomed.

[mrjanejacobs]

Really?? This is the first development you have said "who cares what it's made of." normally you're the one to take a massive crap over every design of all projects presented in this city.. what makes this one different? :haha:

Because every other development has been new. This is a (re)development of a hideous parking garage. Not only that, but it's somewhat ingenuous - if not the design, then at least the intention.

Who care's what kind of screen covers the already unsightly brick garage... I don't see why it matters. Something is going to cover it. That's what matters.

Most projects presented in the City are uninspiring crap from an architectural standpoint. So yeah, I'll continue to take my craps. I'll recognize a clever design nevertheless and this is one of only a few.

[grovesNL]

Here are a couple cleaner renders straight from the architect (Harbour Drive view):

http://i.imgur.com/JJqWzd0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/a59ifRf.jpg

[jeddy1989]

the quality of the renders are just so bad lol, I'd like to see a better quality render of what it will look like :(

[statbass]

the quality of the renders are just so bad lol, I'd like to see a better quality render of what it will look like :(

Agreed, but at least these renders are better than the last set; I can actually visualize the final outcome. The last renders were nothing short of a blurry mess.

[Townie709]

At least they're a little clearer. Hopefully we'll eventually see renders of a higher quality than Google Sketch-Up... Not that they're bad or anything, I just want to be able to better visualize the final product. I want to see some night renders as well.

[Architype]

I like that they are doing something positive with the ground level, that would be the final deciding factor in the success of the project for me.

[Horsell]

I like that they are doing something positive with the ground level, that would be the final deciding factor in the success of the project for me.
Any change to that block would be an improvement. It's a shame that Harbour Drive is so "industrial" and not all all pedestrian friendly. It's too late now to reverse the endless stretch of parking entrances but hopefully future considerations will at least try to make it a little better.

[SignalHillHiker]

The new renders are great - thanks. :)

I still hope they break up the bulk of the parkade a little more than it is.

[AnUrbanLife]

I love that they are considering harbour drive. That's excellent.

I'll look forward to better renders, an improvement to this parking garage, atlantic place and that government of canada building far east on water street would be my top three properties to improve visually as well as their functional relationship with the street.

I'll hope for the best with this one. :)

[niccanning]

I'll look forward to better renders, an improvement to this parking garage, atlantic place and that government of canada building far east on water street would be my top three properties to improve visually

Agreed. For some reason the red brick makes it stand out and look weirder as well. Removing the red from TD Place has made it blend in more IMO

[Townie709]

For some reason, I love the red brick on the government of canada building in the East End of DT. I hope it stays as it is :P

[crackiedog]

Don't know if this was already posted. Does anyone know why the meeting was cancelled?

From the City of St. John's website:

Cancelled - Public Meeting - AP Parking Garage

Start Date:

Thu, 2013/07/04 - 7:00pm

Cancelled - The Public Meeting scheduled to discuss the proposed hotel atop the AP Parking Garage has been cancelled until further notice.

The City of St. John’s will hold a Public Meeting to discuss proposed amendments to the St. John’s Municipal Plan and the City of St. John’s Development Regulations. If enacted, the amendments would have the dual-effect of maintaining the principal use of the A.P. Parking Garage property as a parking facility and allowing development of a 3-storey hotel atop the existing 8-storey parking garage next to Atlantic Place.

This application may be viewed at the Department of Planning, Development and Engineering, Third Floor, St. John’s City Hall Monday through Friday 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., phone (709) 576-8430, or e-mail: planning@stjohns.ca. Any person wishing to make a submission on this application prior to the public meeting must provide a signed written statement to the City Clerk’s Department either by mail: P.O. Box 908, St. John’s, NL A1C 5M2; Fax: (709)576-8474 or e-mail: cityclerk@stjohns.ca. Written and verbal representations may also be submitted at the time of the public meeting.

In accordance with the City’s policy on public notification, properties within a radius of 150 metres of the application site are notified in writing by the City of this application. Notices are sent to property owners and not tenants. If you own but do not live at the property identified to receive this notice, we ask that you forward this notice to any tenants which you may have. Property ownership information is based on the City’s assessment roll.

[Townie709]

We knew the meeting was cancelled, but nobody knows why. Strange that they haven't scheduled a new one yet either.. I really hope this proposal isn't dead. I would cry.

[Architype]

I would like to see it go ahead as well. The status quo of the site is untenable.

[statbass]

I suspect this meeting is canceled due to timing. Summer is usually a difficult time to get the appropriate players and resources together due to vacation schedules, general slowdown of work, etc. Hopefully this will be rescheduled to sometime in the fall.

[goodgrowth]

Like the idea of the Hotel but high quality render or not the colours look terrible. Brown brick mixed with pastel colours?! Really?. I think they should re-clad the brick with an updated colour/aesthetic and go from there...

[Architype]

Like the idea of the Hotel but high quality render or not the colours look terrible. Brown brick mixed with pastel colours?! Really?. I think they should re-clad the brick with an updated colour/aesthetic and go from there...

Maybe it could just be painted, but what they are showing is supposed to coordinate with the existing brick, however it will also appear different when covered with screening.

[Townie709]

This was mentioned in the official project thread but I thought I'd repost it here..

Public Meeting Oct 29th

It's not lost after all! Anyone planning to go to this meeting? I hope they have some better renders at this meeting too :haha:

[ConundrumNL]

I want to seem some higher quality drawings, but I like the idea of this development. It's trying to improve a structure that's a real moose and a blight on the city skyline.

When I look at the renders though, I keep seeing large banner Ads attached to the side of the parking garage.

[cam477]

The AP parking garage proposal is a complicated one, oh, not to mention an ugly one. But I digress.

The garage was sold a few years ago and there was some thought that the new buyers wanted to tear it down and build something more valuable on the site. There was talk of court cases and the city’s response to that has been to attempt to rezone the property for parking ONLY, due to its “historic” use as a parking site. (that is one of the items on the public meeting agenda).

My guess is that because the owners can’t tear it down they are trying to add value to their property by adding the hotel component. (Note that it is referred to as Hotel/Residential).

I'm no structural engineer but one only has to drive through that place to see more rust than is on the Kyle. My only hope is that some day there isn't an Elliott Lake Mall fiasco…God forbid.

I hope this proposal does NOT get approved (sorry folks) in its present form and that over time something better can be envisioned for that site.

The crazy parking regulations are what is killing any imaginative use for that site.

I completely agree!

IMO, everything that makes the AP Garage the worst planning mistake in our city’s history will still be present in the new proposal – We will still have a gigantic, ugly, parking garage in the dead center of our waterfront. The new proposal is only like putting a pretty hat on an ugly broad… it doesn’t’ change much. Sure it’s an improvement… but that’s a relative term.

Anyways, I’m usually gung-ho for developments but I think this one is a mistake. We will be taking the ugliest building in the city and extending its life by a few decades. I’d honestly rather wait for it to continue to rot in the hopes that it is one day torn down.

[Horsell]

RE: Public meeting Oct 29th

I am surprised there was no objection to this proposal; I can’t believe that half the population south of LeMarchant Rd wasn’t there.

Perhaps apathy has set in or perhaps it is “Public Meeting Fatigue”. Those concerned about the downtown seem to have been beaten down by recent meetings on the Marriott and Lighthouse projects and have given up…hung up their rubber boots so to speak. What is the point in showing up and voicing objection when Council is just going to ignore the concerns anyway?

I think this is a very slippery slope if these amendments are allowed to pass. Once this goes through there will be no reason why Fortis can’t come back with a revised proposal with an even higher structure on the harbour side, (other than perhaps that they have “moved on” with their new building) and Southwest Properties will be back with their original 11 story hotel.

Once this amendment is approved the new de-facto height restriction along our waterfront will be a minimum of 11 stories, no question about it. The Great Wall of Water St

[J_Murphy]

St. John's City Council may decide this week whether to move ahead with the development of three additional storeys atop the Atlantic Place parking garage.

Council held a public meeting October 29th to discuss an amendment to regulations that would allow the construction and though only a small number of people attended, they were generally supportive of the proposal.

The proposal is on the agenda at tomorrow's meeting. The Department of Planning and Development is recommending that Council give the green light.





http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=40573&latest=1

[Townie709]

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=40573&latest=1

I bet it gets approved and 5 years from now we wonder what ever happened to this proposal. This one seems to me like a vanisher

[Marty_Mcfly]

I bet it gets approved and 5 years from now we wonder what ever happened to this proposal. This one seems to me like a vanisher

I would say the opposite actually. This seems like a low-risk high-reward development. If it gets approved as is then I can't seem why it wouldn't get off the ground in the spring. Compare that to 123 Water Street.....the large number of compromises required to get the proposal approved may have cut into profit margins making the development unfeasible.

[ed0797]

I'm not getting my hopes up, but I also think this one isn't going anywhere. From what I've seen it's rare to see a developer hold a public meeting after the building gets its "first" approval. I was supposed when the developer actually rescheduled the meeting! But, the history of development downtown isn't good. I guess we won't know until construction starts

[Townie709]

The reason I say it's gonna disappear is because the developer is going to have to spend millions upon millions of dollars on that old pile of crap and for what? 3 measley floors of usable space. It would be great for the public if it happened, but I think once the developers get their approval and start seriously looking at the costs, this one is gonna disappear never to be heard from again.

Prove me wrong, developers!

[Chew]

The reason I say it's gonna disappear is because the developer is going to have to spend millions upon millions of dollars on that old pile of crap and for what? 3 measley floors of usable space. It would be great for the public if it happened, but I think once the developers get their approval and start seriously looking at the costs, this one is gonna disappear never to be heard from again.

Prove me wrong, developers!

I'm sure there was an at least basic economic feasibility study done along with the technical feasibility and preliminary design.

Sure, usually costs creep up once a project gets moving, but I'm sure they have a decent idea of what they're getting themselves into.

I think putting together the financing is where things often fall apart in construction projects and other areas in business, as our friends at Blackberry know all too well (after that buyout deal evaporated).

[jjavman]

CBC article re: Atlantic Place Hotel on council agenda tonight.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ncil-1.2423304
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[Arrakis]

The Happy City Facebook page has a post concerning this and is already stirring things up.

I do hope this gets approved. Anything to improved that horrible looking structure is worth it.

CBC article re: Atlantic Place Hotel on council agenda tonight.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ncil-1.2423304
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[displacednewfie]

The Happy City Facebook page has a post concerning this and is already stirring things up.

I do hope this gets approved. Anything to improved that horrible looking structure is worth it.


Can someone please shut Wallace Ryan the F**K up!

[J_Murphy]

Can someone please shut Wallace Ryan the F**K up!

hahaha...I agree.

The top rated comment on CBC is the dude that calls them "overpriced soulless dwellings."

I swear someday I will stop reading CBC commentary.

[Horsell]

I can’t say that I share most posters enthusiasm about this proposal, I think this is very bad for this property.

At the very least this is a band-aid solution by the City to try and please a developer who “may” have bought into something that they can’t easily get out of because the City seems dead set on zoning this property based on its “historic use as a parking garage”.

There was a similar situation in Halifax a few years back when a developer wanted to tear down (before it fell down) rusting parking garage and redevelop the site. I’m not sure what the final outcome was.

If this planning amendment is allowed to pass it just throws every planning document, now and in the future out the window. What’s to stop them next week from designating any property based on its “historic use” and thus limit its redevelopment.

I am not opposed to a hotel or condo or merry-go-round on that site, just NOT on top of the piece of garbage that is already there.

“Mr. O’Keefe, tear down this wall (garage)”.

[displacednewfie]

I can’t say that I share most posters enthusiasm about this proposal, I think this is very bad for this property.

At the very least this is a band-aid solution by the City to try and please a developer who “may” have bought into something that they can’t easily get out of because the City seems dead set on zoning this property based on its “historic use as a parking garage”.

There was a similar situation in Halifax a few years back when a developer wanted to tear down (before it fell down) rusting parking garage and redevelop the site. I’m not sure what the final outcome was.

If this planning amendment is allowed to pass it just throws every planning document, now and in the future out the window. What’s to stop them next week from designating any property based on its “historic use” and thus limit its redevelopment.

I am not opposed to a hotel or condo or merry-go-round on that site, just NOT on top of the piece of garbage that is already there.

“Mr. O’Keefe, tear down this wall (garage)”.


Never looked at it that way, but you do actually have a legitimate concern. Though I have to say I am surprised that previous councils never already attempted to do that with various properties in the DT area.

[Horsell]

TexPark Halifax !

Here are a couple of links to the history of TexPark. I'm not saying we should repeat the mistakes that have taken place with it but perhaps it would be a good case study for the "Mad Men" down in the Bunker.

http://www.halifaxhistory.ca/Texpark.htm

http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2013/04/22/why-the-city-should-spend-over-5-million-to-buy-a-gravel-parking-lot

[displacednewfie]

TexPark Halifax !

Here are a couple of links to the history of TexPark. I'm not saying we should repeat the mistakes that have taken place with it but perhaps it would be a good case study for the "Mad Men" down in the Bunker.

http://www.halifaxhistory.ca/Texpark.htm

http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2013/04/22/why-the-city-should-spend-over-5-million-to-buy-a-gravel-parking-lot


Not meaning to sound cynical but the gravel parking lot is exactly what Halifax City Council and the Heritage wing nuts deserve!

[Townie709]

Not meaning to sound cynical but the gravel parking lot is exactly what Halifax City Council and the Heritage wing nuts deserve!

Well that does sound both ignorant and cynical..

*************************

Anyone hear whether or not this was approved? I'm pretty sure we all know the answer anyway haha

[Townie709]

Just saw on the CBC liveblog that the AP hotel was unanimously approved by city council. Now it goes to the province for approval and then another public meeting.

Can anyone explain to me why the province has to grant approval for an extension of an existing property in downtown St. John's? Seems to me that those kind of decisions should be made by the city alone and not have to be processed by the province. Any development in the city should be the city's responsibility, not the province's. It only needlessly slows down the pace of development. This must be one area of which mayor O'Keefe was referring to when he said the city relations with the province are archaic and need to be updated to give the city greater authority over what goes on within its borders.