PHILADELPHIA | Roberts Center for Pediatric Research | 375 FT | 23 FLOORS

[summersm343]

Title: Roberts Center for Pediatric Research
Project: Office Space, Research Space, Commercial Space, Parking, Green Space
Architect: Ballinger/ Pelli Clark Pelli
Developer: Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Location: 700 Schuylkill Avenue, Philadelphia, PA
Neighborhood: Graduate Hospital
District: South Philadelphia
Floors: 23
Height: 375 feet

CHOP is planning a 3 tower complex along Schuylkill Avenue in the Graduate Hospital neighborhood of South Philadelphia right across the river from their University City medical center in West Philadelphia. The first phase of the development will be a 23 floor, 375 foot, 743,000 sq ft office/research building with parking and green space for 1,000 CHOP researchers. When the complex is completed with future phases taking place at later dates, it will consist of 2,155,000 sq ft of office/research space, a possible hotel, 1,440 parking spaces, green space, a continuation of the Schuylkill River Banks trail, and possible transit connections with the CHOP University City Medical Center.

Upon completion, tower 1 will be the tallest building in South Philadelphia.

http://www.phaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1960127_782359528458200_1285821826_n1.jpg

http://www.phaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/schuylkill-avenue-phase-1-the-childrens-hospital-of-philadelphia-2.0.102.1365.653.752.360.c.pngg

http://www.phaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1607075_782359615124858_1459900839_n1.jpg

http://www.phaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1947978_782359498458203_343794793_n1.jpg

http://www.phaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/14830_782359568458196_1075471772_n1.jpg

http://www.phaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1620413_782359601791526_321149403_n1.jpg

Links
http://southofsouth.org/sites/southofsouth.org/files/sckuylkill-ave-master-plan-phase1.pdf
http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2013/05/17/chops-lower-schuylkill-master-plan.php

[SJPhillyBoy]

For those of you outside of Philadelphia that do not know what CHOP is:
CHOP = The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

It is consistently ranked the #1 children's hospital in the United States.

U.S. News Best Children's Hospitals 2012-13
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/pediatric-rankings

[christof]

For those of you outside of Philadelphia that do not know what CHOP is:
CHOP = The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

It is consistently ranked the #1 children's hospital in the United States.

U.S. News Best Children's Hospitals 2012-13
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/pediatric-rankings

Penn has plans to expand its medical complex onto the western river bank (where there is currently green space). So in a about a decade, this is going to be a huge medical campus...

[dc_denizen]

Those are some awesome freaking aerials of Philly.

[mPhilly]

I love this plan. Amazing green space connects perfectly to South Street and the trail.

[Philly Fan]

Penn has plans to expand its medical complex onto the western river bank (where there is currently green space). So in a about a decade, this is going to be a huge medical campus...
It's already huge, which explains why Penn is perennially among the top 2 or 3 recipients of NIH research funding in the country, but it certainly will get even huger. :tup:

[Yorkie]

I agree, great aerials, from a different vantage point. I was thinking the chop was a new steakhouse..:shrug::uhh::duh:jester:

[Insoluble]

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs/51969d4ef92ea1459b031461/1.png

So based on this picture it looks like they'll double or triple the width of Schuylkill Ave then try to sell it to us as green space. sigh. The other aspects of the project look pretty good though.

[hammersklavier]

My thoughts:

1. Drop the parking req's. There is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much of it, for where it is (next to several urban neighborhoods, alongside the region's main bike artery, and a five-minute walk from the University City station).

2. Don't demolish that armory unless you absolutely have to. It has good bones, is built to be nigh-indestructible, and (probably) has the foundations to cope with overbuilding. It's clearly an asset to the site, if you can use it properly. And frankly, based on the site plan, there is no reason whatsoever that it has to be razed for surface parking in Phase I. The new construction won't overlap with it, and it's already fitted to be a parking garage. (The parking podium in Phase II has the same dimensions as the armory anyway.)

[PHL10]

My thoughts:

1. Drop the parking req's. There is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much of it, for where it is (next to several urban neighborhoods, alongside the region's main bike artery, and a five-minute walk from the University City station).

2. Don't demolish that armory unless you absolutely have to.

I agree with both your points but I am glad to see that the tallest/largest tower is "Phase 1". Often Phase 1 is some inconsequential piece of the development, i.e. the garage at Cira South.

[PhiLaw]

I agree with both your points but I am glad to see that the tallest/largest tower is "Phase 1". Often Phase 1 is some inconsequential piece of the development, i.e. the garage at Cira South.

I'll add Sugarhouse and XFinity Live!

[summersm343]

Looks like the first tower will rise next year and be 20-something stories high.

http://nakedphilly.com/graduate-hospital/chop-checks-in-with-graduate-hospital-neighbors/

[Flyers2001]

Looks like the first tower will rise next year and be 20-something stories high.

http://nakedphilly.com/graduate-hospital/chop-checks-in-with-graduate-hospital-neighbors/

I like the ongoing discussion of whether the site should add retail. Not so sure myself, but I do like the idea of some small eatery of some sort of the west side off the trail. Something that future employees can use as well as those that take advantage of the growing trail.

[Londonee]

I like the ongoing discussion of whether the site should add retail. Not so sure myself, but I do like the idea of some small eatery of some sort of the west side off the trail. Something that future employees can use as well as those that take advantage of the growing trail.

1.5million sf of office space is more than the Comcast Center boasts--so a lunchtime spot or happy hour bar would be plenty successful.

On the flip side, if no retail is offered, perhaps that could be the impetus for the Schuylkill River Park to add riverfront restaurant space --kinda like real city's do.

[christof]

1.5million sf of office space is more than the Comcast Center boasts--so a lunchtime spot or happy hour bar would be plenty successful.

On the flip side, if no retail is offered, perhaps that could be the impetus for the Schuylkill River Park to add riverfront restaurant space --kinda like real city's do.

Has anyone seen an updated drawing of the first tower?

[Flyers2001]

1.5million sf of office space is more than the Comcast Center boasts--so a lunchtime spot or happy hour bar would be plenty successful.

On the flip side, if no retail is offered, perhaps that could be the impetus for the Schuylkill River Park to add riverfront restaurant space --kinda like real city's do.

Exactly, hopefully the city takes advantage of one waterfront.

Would love the idea of visiting the Art Museum strolling down the trail and grabbing a bit to eat without having to jump back in the car. Waterworks is just not cutting it for the average person.

[summersm343]

Exactly, hopefully the city takes advantage of one waterfront.

Would love the idea of visiting the Art Museum strolling down the trail and grabbing a bit to eat without having to jump back in the car. Waterworks is just not cutting it for the average person.

Agreed. They should step it up at Waterworks. The rest of the Schuylkill Banks trail is just to narrow for a cafe or eatery.

[summersm343]

Has anyone seen an updated drawing of the first tower?

Not yet. Construction is not set to begin until Summer of next year. We'll likely see more updated renderings in the Spring.

[duffey]

this is a bit farther down, but when this, chop/penn med, and u.city are done. FMC might not look so out of place... and penn park will be surrounded by high rises.

[Flyers2001]

Credit to Cubanchris.

I don't have time at the moment to grab all of the images, but for those interested in the CHOP presentation with accompanying renders it is here:

http://www.chop.edu/export/download/...esentation.pdf

Page 14 has a detailed rendering of the phase 1 facade that looks really nice (though helped by the sunset colors they added in).

All of it seems pretty amazing to me, except I really think they should carve out the space for a real restaurant/bar turned toward the river & promenade (page 12& 20) to take advantage of the views and space.

A lot of good information on what they see this project becoming.

[Insoluble]

Credit to Cubanchris.
A lot of good information on what they see this project becoming.

The towers themselves look nice, but I'm still horribly disappointed by the overall superblock design. I mean do they really need to put in a driveway paralleling Schuylkill Ave? Pitiful.

[summersm343]

Here are some of the renderings.

Looks like the first phase of construction will start in October of next year.

The first tower also looks like it will be about 380 feet.

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1524978_746218402072313_858910150_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1486798_746218262072327_2091809212_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1497597_746218345405652_420010758_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1503961_746218308738989_1113984169_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1476094_746218328738987_833398426_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1477407_746218225405664_1171456860_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1489241_746218435405643_505166898_n.jpg

[MikeNigh]

That's going to be awesome coming into south st.

[Philly Fan]

Here are some of the renderings.

Looks like the first phase of construction will start in October of next year.

The first tower also looks like it will be about 380 feet.
Interesting how development will span between University City and Center City along two different axes, with Penn Park in between. I know that in some of the original planning for the Penn Connects program, there was to be a pedestrian bridge across the Schuylkill River that essentially would have extended Penn's Locust Walk into Center City, and bisected the triangle defined by those two axes. Now wouldn't THAT be a terrific vantage point to take in all of this new development (not to mention incredibly cool)? :rolleyes:

[SJPhillyBoy]

Changing Skyline: Details still fuzzy on Children's Hospital's research center

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/home/20131227_Changing_Skyline__Details_still_fuzzy_on_Children_s_Hospital_s_research_center.html#le1i0P0qP6XlJoDY.99

I agree with Inga that this a crucial location on the river and that the river interaction with the city should be maximized for future generations.

[SJPhillyBoy]

The Philly.com Inga Saffron article also states:

In June, Children's expects to break ground on a 375-foot tower, a free-standing garage, a public park, and a waterfront promenade,

So this summer we get to start watching another high tech modern tower start to go up, further expanding the skyscraper boundaries of Center City.

[Flyers2001]

I agree with Inga that this a crucial location on the river and that the river interaction with the city should be maximized for future generations.

I agree. The river trail will be there, but I think many want to see more, as in some kind of establishment for FOOD + DRINK. Its a great location to take in the river and city views. They have the right idea with the park, but hopefully they take it a step further.

CHOP is usually very good with PR, hopefully they are somewhat receptive with the base.

In no way should they lower the height, if anything go bigger. ;)

[summersm343]

Looks like the tallest building is in fact 22 floors, 375 feet.

[summersm343]

New Renderings of the first tower (Phase 1)- 700 Schuylkill Ave. 23 floors- 375 feet. Set to break ground this summer.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1960127_782359528458200_1285821826_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1947978_782359498458203_343794793_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1607075_782359615124858_1459900839_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1920284_782359898458163_344711730_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1655894_782359501791536_794810163_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1901997_782359485124871_2145001489_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/v/t1/14830_782359568458196_1075471772_n.jpg?oh=648ed39f6e98200f9a561764d142db3f&oe=537D9FDF

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1620413_782359601791526_321149403_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/1618451_782359578458195_476594357_n.jpg

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/CDR%20Submission_March%202014_700%20Schuylkill%20Avenue_v2.pdf

[Pennsgrant]

Tower 1 is sharp, some great towers going up along the Schuylkill. Cira,Evo,FMC,CHOP,Dranoffs riverside tower.

Whats' the deal with that old AT+T building on South St that looks like its about 50 years old ? Is that currently being used or is it vacant? I never see any activity around it and looks to be in a prime location for re-use(hopefully a tear-down/re-use).

Looks like the River trail is going to get another extension to the southern tip of this new CHOP complex.

[summersm343]

Tower 1 is sharp, some great towers going up along the Schuylkill. Cira,Evo,FMC,CHOP,Dranoffs riverside tower.

Whats' the deal with that old AT+T building on South St that looks like its about 50 years old ? Is that currently being used or is it vacant? I never see any activity around it and looks to be in a prime location for re-use(hopefully a tear-down/re-use).

Looks like the River trail is going to get another extension to the southern tip of this new CHOP complex.

Unfortunately, it is still being used by AT&T. It is downright ugly. I would love to see it demo'd and redeveloped into several towers... but that probably won't happen.

[mmikeyphilly]

The design for the first tower looks very "corporate". I'm liking it a lot.:yes:

Remember, folks coming in from out of town (from the airport) and coming up the Schuylkill Expressway will get to see this building before the "tada" of the full Philly Skyline. Wow, I just thought too...with this on the right, and the FMC Tower on the left..it's just gonna be eye candy from both sides! Nice!

(side note: I usually take 95 North from the Airport myself. But occasionally I've missed the entrance and wind up taking 76..shoot, I did it again! Took the darn wrong road again, but what a nice scenic route):cheers:

[mmikeyphilly]

Unfortunately, it is still being used by AT&T. It is downright ugly. I would love to see it demo'd and redeveloped into several towers... but that probably won't happen.

Yes. Summer & Pennsgrant, I totally agree. After you mentioned it, I went back to look at the rendering again, and it really is ugly. I think it is an "operations" center, or something in that order. Probably lots of machinery and wires connecting myriad networks in the corporation. They really should give it a facelift though. My partner works for AT&T, and from the comments I've heard him talking about to other co-workers, I don't think this is a priority in their eyes. :rolleyes:

[Pennsgrant]

The design for the first tower looks very "corporate". I'm liking it a lot.:yes:

Remember, folks coming in from out of town (from the airport) and coming up the Schuylkill Expressway will get to see this building before the "tada" of the full Philly Skyline. Wow, I just thought too...with this on the right, and the FMC Tower on the left..it's just gonna be eye candy from both sides! Nice!


You will have to pass this unsightly beast first.

http://s9.postimg.org/vnlxnxvov/South_Tower_crude_back.png

[mmikeyphilly]

You will have to pass this unsightly beast first.

http://s9.postimg.org/vnlxnxvov/South_Tower_crude_back.png

Oh Yea, I forgot about those others. But I feel confident that CHOP will make it quite nice. At least they are going for the tallest one to be constructed first. And especially FMC Headquarters Building! I think I like that one the best, so far. And it is a very impressive design. With Evo, I'm gonna wait to pass judgment (not that they care!) But I do like the height and keeping everything in order. The façade (looks) decent from the photos that were posted, but it's all this pre fab materials that projects use. I wish they would be more "original", or creative.

[Philly Fan]

You will have to pass this unsightly beast first.


Let's hope that's just a crappy, low detail rendering (which I suspect it is). It could be that this will look a lot better in real life once the cladding and details, such as they are, are installed. [Fingers crossed. :rolleyes:]

In any event, it's always risky to judge a building based on a rendering, and especially one as lacking in detail as that one.

[Pennsgrant]

Let's hope that's just a crappy, low detail rendering (which I suspect it is). It could be that this will look a lot better in real life once the cladding and details, such as they are, are installed. [Fingers crossed. :rolleyes:]


Unless they radically change the design of the pcam extension I don't have any hope. I'm sure this addition is practical and will be a great asset to the hospital complex but this mammoth building is an architectural nightmare.

Thee very best cladding couldn't save this.

http://s9.postimg.org/9klpkh9db/South_Tower_simple.png

[summersm343]

http://hiddencityphila.org/2014/03/the-complicated-growth-of-chop/

Article on this today from Hidden City

[Kidphilly]

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/healthcare-exchange/CHoP_unveils_plans_for_new_research_facility_.html

[Kidphilly]

http://www.philly.com/philly/home/20140328_Changing_Skyline__Parking_garages_threaten_to_wall_off_Schuylkill_s_east_bank.html

[Insoluble]

http://www.philly.com/philly/home/20140328_Changing_Skyline__Parking_garages_threaten_to_wall_off_Schuylkill_s_east_bank.html

As much as I like this new tower from the 2nd floor up, Inga is absolutely on point here. This thing makes absolutely no attempt to integrate itself with the neighborhoods to the east. Granted the Naval Square development right next to this already kills a lot of the urbanity leading up to the waterfront, but this development would completely finish the job. I'm really hoping they reconsider their site plan after Civic Design Review.

This also points out the need for improved public transportation options around here.

[Kidphilly]

As much as I like this new tower from the 2nd floor up, Inga is absolutely on point here. This thing makes absolutely no attempt to integrate itself with the neighborhoods to the east. Granted the Naval Square development right next to this already kills a lot of the urbanity leading up to the waterfront, but this development would completely finish the job. I'm really hoping they reconsider their site plan after Civic Design Review.

This also points out the need for improved public transportation options around here.

agreed (on really all your points)

Am wondering if the opportunity exists to plan for a PT option that leverages a lot of existing underground/dedicated ROW - like a new Light Rail line that could use the current rail ROW from 30th - this could also be planned to incorporate into any rail yard development/improvements above 30th - and potentially link to the Zoo and along Fairmont out to Bala replacing the current RRR line there

with links to basically all PT at 30th, the girard trolly at Girard - and potentially extending down to the new proposed South bank development in Point Breeze (plan and build the PT infrastructure now or even further like back to the DE but still we need to start planning on how to link these new potential job and growth areas for the future)

In theory this line could split at Girard to the other side of the river and use the Pennsy row back toward the Art Museum area or even into the loft district and around to Ind Mall etc.

[josef]

It's such an amazingly drastic difference seeing how European cities treat their rivers compared to American ones. I wonder if any of these developers even go over there to see it.

[MusicMan84]

Notably, the University City rail stop is a short walk across the south Street bridge...

[Philly Fan]

It's such an amazingly drastic difference seeing how European cities treat their rivers compared to American ones. I wonder if any of these developers even go over there to see it.
No need to go to Europe--just head to American cities like San Antonio (Google San Antonio River Walk if you're unfamiliar with it).

[blorkishdork]

I second that opinion Kidphilly, especially the need for better public transportation in the area and the city as a whole. I think it is time for the city & septa actually look into how to expand our transportation network, specifically our subway network. With a growing job center around the hospitals and the vertical expansion of the callowhill neighborhood (between vine and spring garden streets). It makes sense to expand rail service to serve these growing areas.

I'm not saying build it right away, but at least plan for the future. Even a quick little line from 30th street to the medical center would do wonders for traffic in the area or expanding patco (first making it part of septa....) into west philly via spruce or south into graduate hospital via graysferry would be a huge improvement for the cities transit infrastructure! The city drastically need to put a plan together for the future otherwise we'll continue to have more and more parking garages for office buildings and residential buildings not within a few blocks of the BSL and MFL.

[josef]

No need to go to Europe--just head to American cities like San Antonio (Google San Antonio River Walk if you're unfamiliar with it).

That's true. Providence does well with its river too, actually. I forgot about that one. Waterfire (http://waterfire.org/) there pulls in tons of people.

[ichigo]

So, from what I gather, there is some sort of approval meeting on April 1st? Any idea when Phase 1 is planned to begin (if approved)?

[summersm343]

So, from what I gather, there is some sort of approval meeting on April 1st? Any idea when Phase 1 is planned to begin (if approved)?

This summer.

[Kidphilly]

As much as I like this new tower from the 2nd floor up, Inga is absolutely on point here. This thing makes absolutely no attempt to integrate itself with the neighborhoods to the east. Granted the Naval Square development right next to this already kills a lot of the urbanity leading up to the waterfront, but this development would completely finish the job. I'm really hoping they reconsider their site plan after Civic Design Review.

This also points out the need for improved public transportation options around here.

So taking this on a rainy day I decided to create my own new Fantasy map to tie new potential infrastructure and job centers (UCity/30th St Railyard/CHOP S Street/South Bank). In addition a loop in Center City; extension on Columbus Blvd and us of the Pennsy Cut.

My grand plan (fantasy) also has extensions as follows:

Parkside Ave and an extension of the Bala RR Line (only now Light rail) through the park to Bala and using the existing bridge to terminate in Manyunk on Main Street.

Another that extends from the Pennsy cut at Girard up 33rd street to eventually use the Chestnut Hill West RR Row to make thi line from RR to Light Rail.

There is also an extension of the same line as above through CC (on Market) and north on Columbus to Girard.

The loop would include either the Bala/Manyunk extension (terminate at Market/Columbus) or the CH West to Girard Line which would run through the Pennsy Cut and down Market to Columbus.

The Loop would run across the Girard bridge over to the zoo.

There would be new key stops to include potentially:

Attractions
Zoo
Art Museum(Prison)
Parkway (Barnes/Franklin Inst)
Mann
ME/RTM/Conv Center
Independence Mall
Penns Landing
Italian Market
(Potentially Reading Viaduct which it will use)


Job Centers
30th Street
ME
Ind Mall
South Street (Both ends)
South Banks
Loft District (To me to be a zoned development site)

Nabes Linked
U City
Parkside
Bala
Manyunk
CH West
Fishtown/No Libs
De River Waterfront
ME
Old City
QV Pennsport
Bella Vista/Passyunk Sq
Point Breeze/GHo
etc.

Subway/Trolly/CR Links
30th Street
Broad
Federal/Ellsworth
Market
Market East
Girard (Both ends)
Spring Garden (but see no reason to directly connect)


It would also leverage a fair amount of exiting Higher speed ROW to include:

Pennsy Cut
30th Street Railyard and extension to South Bank
Fairmount Park (Both sides)
Bala RR Line
CH West RR Line
Columbus Ave Median

It would have both visitor site seeing benefits and job center benefits

I could see each line runnin peak on 15 minute headways; making for 5-10 (max) headways in the core loop. Also could see this as being a 21 hour line (esp on weekends to help better serve core areas.

Just one mans rainy day Fantasy but the more I think of this the more I really how this would significantly enhance PT options in the core

So here it is

<iframe style="height: 270px; width: 450px;" src="http://www.mapquest.com/embed?hk=P4uwaW" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

http://mapq.st/P4uwaW

[Insoluble]

I like the concept. This does a nice job of linking some heavily populated central neighborhoods with the job centers in University City. The only two critiques I can think of are 1) this makes use of a portion of the Reading Viaduct East of Broad that is slated to become a park, and 2) Wouldn't Washington Ave make more sense than Elsworth and Federal? You could still easily make a connection with the BSL and the right of way is much wider which I imagine would make construction easier. Great plan though! I wish we had the money and leadership top make something like this happen.

[summersm343]

Delete.

[Kidphilly]

I like the concept. This does a nice job of linking some heavily populated central neighborhoods with the job centers in University City. The only two critiques I can think of are 1) this makes use of a portion of the Reading Viaduct East of Broad that is slated to become a park, and 2) Wouldn't Washington Ave make more sense than Elsworth and Federal? You could still easily make a connection with the BSL and the right of way is much wider which I imagine would make construction easier. Great plan though! I wish we had the money and leadership top make something like this happen.


I thought about Washington - the more I think about it I think Fed/Els may actually work better for street LRT - Wash is sort of commercial street for many trucks

Fed and Els would move pretty well - in theory you could add lights synced for flow of the rail - biggest rub is these are residential streets mostly.

On the Eastern side of the Pennsy, I think half could still be park and preserve the dedicated row.

If you scroll down to first picture I believe this is the spur section toward Broad - wide enough for two tracks and an ample walking trail IMHO. The other side could be park (or even another potential route through the Loft district which could have some good TOD development opps basically from scratch.

I also think the airport line could be converted to use this ROW as well allowing for easier trunks out that way as well..

http://readingviaduct.org/

[blorkishdork]

The problem with putting a light-rail down Federal and Ellsworth is that Ellsworth doesn't go all the way through. It becomes a very small street east of Passyunk and disappears entirely at the parks that are bound by 5th, 3rd, Washington and Federal. There is a reason the 64 does not go on Ellsworth and Federal. Now if we are talking subgrade, we might be able to work something out. But above ground would not work on those streets. Plus Washington ave is changing from a contractor's area (mostly west of broad) to a mix of apartments offices and shops and is a wider street and would be able to accommodate the added traffic. Light-rail would add a lot to Washington Ave and would make it much more appealing to more than just the Vietnamese immigrants currently inhabiting the block.

[Kidphilly]

The problem with putting a light-rail down Federal and Ellsworth is that Ellsworth doesn't go all the way through. It becomes a very small street east of Passyunk and disappears entirely at the parks that are bound by 5th, 3rd, Washington and Federal. There is a reason the 64 does not go on Ellsworth and Federal. Now if we are talking subgrade, we might be able to work something out. But above ground would not work on those streets. Plus Washington ave is changing from a contractor's area (mostly west of broad) to a mix of apartments offices and shops and is a wider street and would be able to accommodate the added traffic. Light-rail would add a lot to Washington Ave and would make it much more appealing to more than just the Vietnamese immigrants currently inhabiting the block.


Fair - though tried to re-configure the route using street that flow through

And Washington could work as well IMHO - just sort of thought but obviously nothing set in stone - even in my own head which is a far as this proposal has gone

And well I quite like the Pho there on Washington

Cant imagine submerged TBH


I actually do like the concept and think it could be very beneficial - but that and a couple of bucks only really gets a cup of coffee...

[summersm343]

This thread will now only be about the first phase of the CHOP Schuylkill Ave complex which will be 23 floors at 375 feet. Any future phases will have a new thread created for them when they are officially announced.

[summersm343]

Article on this from the Philadelphia Business Journal:

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/blog/real-estate/2014/03/chop-to-go-before-planning-committee-on-new-tower.html

[Mappy]

Between the CHOP blight-wall, the CSX derailment(s), and the many other development proposals along the Schuylkill - It's probably time to make some bigger picture planning decisions about the various modes of transport along the river here, and how to design for a future with them in mind. The 2012(?) Ed Bacon Competition even evoked this challenge, however most submissions seemed to take a myopic approach to just the 30th St station area and/or I-76.

At the crux of all this is the CSX/Conrail and Amtrak lines coming in and out of a compact area, using bridges that are in need of maintenance, and ROWs that Amtrak would like to improve, relocate, realign, or widen for higher speed and high capacity travel.

Looking out http://www.dvrpc.org/webmaps/phillyfreightfinder/# there are basically 4 main routes in/out of the city (Delair, Trenton, Harrisburg, and Wilmington), but there are redundant lines for freight on either side of the Schuylkill. the El through UCity, and the CSX on the eastern banks (next to proposed CHOP).

Im thinking if the City mediated the benefits to each Rail companies and got other fed/state funds they could build these three connections in Yellow and allow for the removal of freight use from all of the lines in Red.

Tell me if Im missing something, but I think all the areas that use freight still have access, Amtrak and SEPTA could get some additional space in NE Philly, 25th St El could be razed or retrofitted for transit, and the eastern banks of the Schuylkill could be cleared for Much improved open space access or re-purposed for trolleys or other transit, but either way opening things up for the new CHOP design, Riverwalk, Penn's expansion area. There would also be three old rail bridges that could be tied into the trail system.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/jasomm-1316571-albums-maps-pic110782-csx-rail-consolidation.jpg

Note the lines only indicate freight use. Obviously there are lots of other rail lines in the area, some of which overlap with these ROWs

[josef]

Between the CHOP blight-wall, the CSX derailment(s), and the many other development proposals along the Schuylkill - It's probably time to make some bigger picture planning decisions about the various modes of transport along the river here, and how to design for a future with them in mind.

Definitely agree, especially if we're going to start getting North Dakota shipments coming through now too.

To be honest, I don't know all that much about freight movements through the city, beyond "hey the 25th Street viaduct is crumbling" and "those freight trains get in the way of the Schuykill River Trail". Why is there duplication of tracks both west and east of the Schuykill there? One of those is the highline and one is the tracks that run parallel to the river trail, right? I know they're both used, but I'm not sure in what capacity. Does the 25th Street viaduct really just send trains south to the refineries?

I'm also wondering what effect this'll have on passenger traffic. Does it positively affect Amtrak/SEPTA/NJTransit traffic entering and leaving the city just by getting freight out of the way? If so, awesome. I wonder if it would facilitate faster Amtrak service in particular, since that's a big goal of theirs over the coming decades.

Can the green lines take on the extra capacity that might be necessary once freight is shifted over from the red ones? I imagine if it negatively affected their throughput, they'd do all they could to fight against it.

Annoyingly, I have more questions than anything, but I love the idea of getting freight trains out of the densest parts of the city, possibly for inclusion as part of new passenger service. In a dream world, I'd like to see SEPTA improve rail access along as many ROWs as it can in the city, especially because it's hard to go diagonal via a one-seat side here. Overall really interesting, I would be interested in hearing the pros and cons of this and why it could or couldn't be done.

[ichigo]

Does anybody know the decision of the planning committee yet? Did phase I get approved?

[Kidphilly]

http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/government-affairs/schuylkill-community-premeeting-apr14.pdf


Also to Mappy - love the plan - that would sync well to my Fantasy LRT Map

[josef]

Does anybody know the decision of the planning committee yet? Did phase I get approved?

The latest from Inga's Twitter feed is: "Philly Civic Design Review board demands 10 major changes from CHOP before Schuylkill plan can go forward."

She's been tweeting it all day. https://twitter.com/IngaSaffron

[Insoluble]

The latest from Inga's Twitter feed is: "Philly Civic Design Review board demands 10 major changes from CHOP before Schuylkill plan can go forward."

She's been tweeting it all day. https://twitter.com/IngaSaffron

Sounds like they had some good recommendations based on her comments. Let's hope CHOP takes this to heart and does a redesign for the site.

[summersm343]

Article on this:

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/04/01/design-review-committee-tells-chop-to-make-better-connections-to-river-and-neighborhoods-and-be-less-auto-centric

[josef]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkOPqd0CQAAeqfk.png:large

"This is the view of CHOP's Schuylkill River campus plan that the Philly hospital didn't want you to see."

https://twitter.com/IngaSaffron/status/451362347383144448

[Philly Fan]

"This is the view of CHOP's Schuylkill River campus plan that the Philly hospital didn't want you to see."

https://twitter.com/IngaSaffron/status/451362347383144448

That's it--time to follow Inga on Twitter. :yes:

[theWatusi]

And what's wrong with that view?

[josef]

And what's wrong with that view?

Complete disengagement with the street? A blank wall for pedestrians, which enhances feelings of unsafeness, especially at night? Just a few thoughts.

[GarCastle]

Maybe if you chant a nursery rhyme, the wall opens up and lets you in?

LOL
G.

[jakel]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkOPqd0CQAAeqfk.png:large

"This is the view of CHOP's Schuylkill River campus plan that the Philly hospital didn't want you to see."

https://twitter.com/IngaSaffron/status/451362347383144448

It reminds me of Penn's Class of 1931 Ice Arena, except Penn's building has more texture and windows.

http://i.imgur.com/QWRgFsC.png

[mmikeyphilly]

And what's wrong with that view?

I agree with theWatusi. I thought at first it was blocking someone's view, perhaps "shadows", but I don't see anything that would want the hospital to hide this rendering under a table. I actually think it will pump more life into the area, and make it feel more safe at night for a walker. I drive, and I'm not an expert or a walker, so maybe I'm not seeing it.

[josef]

I agree with theWatusi. I thought at first it was blocking someone's view, perhaps "shadows", but I don't see anything that would want the hospital to hide this rendering under a table. I actually think it will pump more life into the area, and make it feel more safe at night for a walker. I drive, and I'm not an expert or a walker, so maybe I'm not seeing it.

So I can see why a blankish wall facing the street at the base of any tower is not optimal urban design; it not only disengages the building with the street, taking it out of the urban fabric by actually walling it off from it, creating a mental and physical separation from the neighborhood.

The reason this is suboptimal from a pedestrian perspective, in my mind, is that it has to potential to make the street feel ugly during the day (purely an aesthetic thing, I guess, but I super hate huge blank walls at street level) and unsafe at night. I know I find it sorta creepy at night to be walking in an area with not that many people on the street, up against huge walls someone could be hiding behind. I'm not being overly paranoid, I'm just trying to convey why certain decisions builders make can hurt street life and make an area feel slightly unsafe in my mind. With a door at street level, say, you'd have more eyes on the street because people would be coming and going, and there might be a brightly lit lobby with guards or front desk staff there 24/7.

That said, in this case, I actually feel like I'm missing something. How is that view the first proposed stage of their campus? That view makes it look like you're looking west, with the rest of CHOP in the background, but if you were looking from the river to this building, wouldn't it be on the right? And looking at the first page of this thread, the first phase tower isn't supposed to abut South Street. So, I'm kinda confused here. Maybe this is actually a rendering of the Phase 2 building?

[Philly Fan]

That said, in this case, I actually feel like I'm missing something. How is that view the first proposed stage of their campus? That view makes it look like you're looking west, with the rest of CHOP in the background, but if you were looking from the river to this building, wouldn't it be on the right? And looking at the first page of this thread, the first phase tower isn't supposed to abut South Street. So, I'm kinda confused here. Maybe this is actually a rendering of the Phase 2 building?

That must be the "parking podium" on which the future Phase 2 building would sit, but which would be built as part of Phase 1 (see page 19):

http://southofsouth.org/sites/southofsouth.org/files/sckuylkill-ave-master-plan-phase1.pdf

In any event, that wall clearly would face the elevated approach to the South Street Bridge (unless I'm misinterpreting the rendering), so I'm not sure how much it would affect pedestrian street life, per se (other than aesthetically).

[mmikeyphilly]

That must be the "parking podium" on which the future Phase 2 building would sit, but which would be built as part of Phase 1 (see page 19):

http://southofsouth.org/sites/southofsouth.org/files/sckuylkill-ave-master-plan-phase1.pdf

In any event, that wall clearly would face the elevated approach to the South Street Bridge (unless I'm misinterpreting the rendering), so I'm not sure how much it would affect pedestrian street life, per se (other than aesthetically).

Josef, also look at the first page of this thread, and scroll down to the 9th photo, (sorry, I'm not familiar with inserting photos, I usually make errors, so I don't bother..lol) anyway, it shows phase 2's parking podium to be built first, which is part of Phase 1. (which looks to be that wall you're talking about) Phase 1's tower sits farther back, and you're right, there's no security guards at the street or pavement level. I can't guarantee that muggings won't happen here, but what do the people who walk the river walk do at night? It's unsafe anywhere you walk. If you're that afraid, carry mace, or get a license to carry a gun. All kidding aside, Philly is not street friendly, just like any city for that matter. :cheers:

[summersm343]

That said, in this case, I actually feel like I'm missing something. How is that view the first proposed stage of their campus? That view makes it look like you're looking west, with the rest of CHOP in the background, but if you were looking from the river to this building, wouldn't it be on the right? And looking at the first page of this thread, the first phase tower isn't supposed to abut South Street. So, I'm kinda confused here. Maybe this is actually a rendering of the Phase 2 building?

What are you confused about? This the view of the building from South Street bridge facing Southwest. That blank wall facing South Street is the parking podium, it will only be temporary until the 10 story phase two tower is built on top of it. Also, this faces the elevated section of the South Street bridge, so I don't see how this would kill the pedestrian experience. How is this any worse than the AT&T building across the street?

[Philly Fan]

What are you confused about? This the view of the building from South Street bridge facing Southwest. That blank wall facing South Street is the parking podium, it will only be temporary until the 10 story phase two tower is built on top of it. Also, this faces the elevated section of the South Street bridge, so I don't see how this would kill the pedestrian experience. How is this any worse than the AT&T building across the street?

Dude, you said exactly what I said in post #73 . . . . . . except you said it better. :P :tup:

[summersm343]

Dude, you said exactly what I said in post #73 . . . . . . except you said it better. :P :tup:

Haha! Great minds think alike! :cheers:

[josef]

Thanks guys, I actually didn't realize that the podium for tower 2 would be part of phase 1. CHOP is trying to confuse me, I swear.

Oh i see now. That black strip on the left of the photo, I thought that was the river. But that's a street, maybe Schuykill Ave, isn't it.

[Philly Fan]

Haha! Great minds think alike! :cheers:

Indeed! :yes:

Now, if we can just convince the rest of the world that we have great minds. :rolleyes:

[Philly Fan]

CHOP is trying to confuse me, I swear.

Because it's so much fun! ;)

Oh i see now. That black strip on the left of the photo, I thought that was the river. But that's a street, maybe Schuykill Ave, isn't it.
The Schuylkill River's not THAT polluted! :P

[mmikeyphilly]

Thanks guys, I actually didn't realize that the podium for tower 2 would be part of phase 1. CHOP is trying to confuse me, I swear.

Oh i see now. That black strip on the left of the photo, I thought that was the river. But that's a street, maybe Schuykill Ave, isn't it.

Yes, that's street you're viewing in the rendering. The Schuylkill is behind the Phase 1 building, which is not in sight. It's okay that you got confused. It happens to me a lot! And your welcome. Btw, stop watching "Arrow" episodes on the CW, it's making you paranoid. The archer will not be hiding along that wall! ;)

[GarCastle]

It IS a research building after all.

Maybe that wall helps its Zombie-proofing. The question is, is it there to keep them out or to keep them in? Fun thoughts while you walk by that wall at night.

Cheers,
G.

[josef]

It IS a research building after all.

Maybe that wall helps its Zombie-proofing. The question is, is it there to keep them out or to keep them in? Fun thoughts while you walk by that wall at night.

Cheers,
G.

Haha. Winner. :tup:

[Philly Fan]

Article about this, and concerns regarding it, in today's Daily Pennsylvanian:

http://www.thedp.com/article/2014/04/chop-resident-problems

[summersm343]

Design changes for Children's Hospital of Philadelphia new tower at 700 Schuylkill Ave

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/2014-05-06_CHOP_SA-Phase1_CDR_Supplement[1].pdf

[Philly Fan]

Design changes for Children's Hospital of Philadelphia new tower at 700 Schuylkill Ave

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/2014-05-06_CHOP_SA-Phase1_CDR_Supplement[1].pdf

Also fixing the link here:

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/2014-05-06_CHOP_SA-Phase1_CDR_Supplement[1].pdf

;)

[summersm343]

Also fixing the link here:

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/2014-05-06_CHOP_SA-Phase1_CDR_Supplement[1].pdf

;)

Bahaha thanks again! :cheers:

[Kidphilly]

New renderings dated 5.6.2014

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/2014-05-06_CHOP_SA-Phase1_CDR_Supplement%5B1%5D.pdf

[skyscraper]

New renderings dated 5.6.2014

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projectreviews/PDF/2014-05-06_CHOP_SA-Phase1_CDR_Supplement%5B1%5D.pdf

Whoa! Renderings from the future!

[summersm343]

CDR says progress made but they still recommend changes to the curb cut outs on South Street bridge. This project is off to the Planning Commission now.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/05/06/civic-design-review-to-chop-progress-made-more-work-needed-on-schuylkill-ave-proposal

[cubanChris]

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/05/12/guest-opinion-chop-s-schuylkill-river-plan-should-include-creation-of-a-neighborhood

Employer-assisted housing expert Dan Hoffman says including housing in the development and otherwise encouraging employees to become city residents would benefit CHOP, the city, and the surrounding neighborhoods.


The current design debate regarding CHOP’s proposed expansion more resembles a debate about what kind of hub cap to put on a flat tire than it does any serious consideration of urban development policy. It’s nice to have a shiny, new, hubcap, but it doesn’t fix the tire. Fixing the tire would be saying to a tax-exempt institution...

[summersm343]

Another article from Phillyliving.com about the CDR approving this project and sending it on it's way to the Planning Commission. Also a list of some of the recommendations they made to CHOP

http://www.phillyliving.com/blog/2014/05/12/civic-design-review-signs-suggests-changes-chop-expansion-plans/

[summersm343]

Can we get a name change for this thread to say?:

PHILADELPHIA | CHOP @ 700 Schuylkill Ave | 23 floors | 375 feet

We'll make this thread just about Phase 1, and then any future phases built at later dates we can create separate threads for.

Thanks! :tup:

[Jawnadelphia]

Wonder how things are going at the Planning Commission meeting this afternoon?? I stopped by but the room was packed and first hour was spent talking about a proposed AAA for Tasker and Columbus Blvd (Commission recommeded - disapproval).

[cubanChris]

Kellie from PlanPhilly is live tweeting the meeting's progress which is currently on CHoP's portion: https://twitter.com/KelliePGates

As it turns out, they have eliminated 1 of their proposed 2 curb cuts on the SS bridge. They've also committed to building out all public space in phase 1, despite the complications that arise for future phases, and have committed to commercial space on SS... applying for the needed variances to make it official. they've also committed to commercial on Schuylkill and bainbridge, but doubt the demand is there. Additionally, they've pledged a bikeshare onsite.

Inga, who is also there, says more renderings of the campus have been shared at the meeting.

[summersm343]

That's nice to see! Can't wait for this tower to get started! It will be a beautiful addition to the skyline!

[thebigATL]

Not bad at all Philly!!!!

[summersm343]

The planning commission approved the tower. Article on it from Plan Philly

Planning endorses zoning relief for CHOP's Schuylkill Ave. project
WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2014
BY KELLIE PATRICK GATES

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/05/21/planning-endorses-zoning-relief-for-chop-s-schuylkill-ave-project

[Jes44]

Now, that the first phase has gotten approval, is there a targeted date as to when construction/demolition will begin? Or are there other steps beforehand?

[christof]

Any word on when construction will begin?