Portland Metro Freeway/Highway/Roads News and Discussions

[i-215]

9W would need tolls, too, report says
Newberg-Dundee bypass - Toll prices on both routes would depend upon who gets exempted and state funding


Wednesday, December 13, 2006
LISA GRACE LEDNICER and JAMES MAYER

A private toll road bypassing Newberg and Dundee could work financially and politically if motorists who use Oregon 99W also pay the toll, with residents and visitors getting a free pass, the Australian company exploring the idea said Tuesday.

Any tolling option chosen needs to ensure that the traffic causing the problem "pays for the solution," Nick Hahn, project manager for the Macquarie Infrastructure Group, told the Oregon Transportation Commission at a meeting in Portland.

The company's 167-page report said a toll of $3.50 for through-traffic on both roads, with Newberg and Dundee residents paying a flat fee of $1 to use the bypass, would bring in enough money to build and run the bypass for 50 years but only if taxpayers put up $150 million. Eliminating all public support for the project would require a $5 toll.

Macquarie, one of the world's largest toll-road operators, would put up $379 million in construction costs. The state would contribute $50 million towards construction and $100 million to buy the right of way to build the 11-mile bypass, according to Macquarie's proposal. The firm would operate the road under an agreement with the Oregon Department of Transportation, with ownership reverting to the state after five decades.

The report, which mentions nontoll financing options only briefly, is the most detailed to date of how tolling could help pay for the Newberg-Dundee bypass. If the state pursues Macquarie's proposal, it will serve as a blueprint for using tolls to pay for other costly road projects, such as widening the southern portion of Interstate 205 and building a new Sunrise Corridor highway from I-205 to Damascus.

Transportation commissioners questioned the assumption that ODOT would commit $150 million to pay for the road. Commissioner Gail Achterman noted that by 2008, when Macquarie proposes to begin building the bypass, the transportation agency will have only $50 million a year to invest in new projects for the entire state.

Yamhill County officials said they need more time to study the report before deciding which financing option makes the most sense.

"It's hard for me to sense how people are going to react to this," said Yamhill County Commissioner Leslie Lewis, who said she prefers putting tolls on just the bypass. "Clearly, they reacted badly to tolling the entire corridor. Whether this will have any public acceptability, I don't know."

Yamhill County residents and officials have been pushing for the bypass for decades as traffic has increased on 99W, which links the Portland area with the county's wine country, the Oregon Coast and Spirit Mountain Casino. But the project has never been a high priority in a state with dwindling resources for highway projects and many pressing transportation needs.

Macquarie signed an agreement with the state in April to study the project's feasibility. Tuesday's report is one in a series of "milestones" in the agreement that allows either party to pull the plug on the project. If Macquarie ends up signing an agreement with the state, the bypass could open for motorists in 2011.

[i-215]

Duh! Of course, if you toll both routes you'll make more money. To me, this proposal reeks. Isn't the idea of a toll the idea that we're paying for a new road, not a chance to make a few quick bucks off the poor residents of the Willamette Valley?

I mean, how do you toll this:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l183/utradioguide/newberg.jpg

Please, somebody say I'm misunderstanding this. If not, Newberg residents, get your toll tags ready....

[urbanlife]

that is a really high toll to pay too. I so would never be using that road if I lived out there, couldnt afford to. Good thing I live downtown and walk everywhere. Well I do hope the people of that area dont get their asses handed to them.

[pdxman]

I don't mind toll roads...if people complain about traffic congestion yet don't want to pay more taxes, toll roads are what they get. Are people on the east coast and europe dumber than west coast people? Or smarter?

[i-215]

I am always in favor of raising taxes! It sure beats tolls!

[pdxman]

I am always in favor of raising taxes! It sure beats tolls!
Well, unfortunately, people up here don't think like that. I guess you can't blame them, tho, the oregon legislature is awful. They can't get anything important done. There isn't a sales tax here either so that makes it harder to find temporary, fast ways to get money by implementing a sales tax increase. I guess we could also keep going up the ladder to the federal government--who decides to spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on a ridiculous war instead of putting that money in to education, social services and roads, etc...but i won't go further in to that :hell:

[i-215]

:previous:

Even as a Replublican, let me just say that that could change. I think we'll see more money spent on domestic issues with this congress ... even if they are all... cough cough... well, that other party. :haha:

I agree, Oregon's legislature is a mess. They can't even put a stop to the "we'll tow away your car" insanity, that cost me $270 last year. I guess Multnomah County had some protections for citizens, and Clackamas has some too, but because I was towed 14 miles from Willamette to SE Portland I went "across county lines" therefore no protections applied to me, so they socked it to me. And there's no sense arguing with Retreiver Towing because they'll just charge you another hour for "storage." Uugh! It's the only state in the nation that has such a car towing racket going on, that I've ever seen ... and Oregonians are getting shafted for it.

But I'm getting off topic. Personally, it would be great to see 99W be a freeway. However, I could see that if most the traffic is casino traffic, a toll 99W Bypass could make some sense, even if I'm opposed to it. But the idea of tolling both sides - the town side and the freeway side is a joke! There always needs to be a free alternative!

Anyone else feel my indignation? Plus, how do you toll a "Main St."?

[zilfondel]

According to what I've read, there are only 16,300 cars/day that use the corridor. That's actually not a lot of traffic... I-5 between Salem & Portland has like around 150,000. So a $350 million 11 mile road ends up with a very high toll.

Sounds like, from what I've read, Dundee is trying to toll everyone from McMinnville who commutes into Portland.

[360Rich]

Key private partner drops out of Newberg-Dundee bypass project
Posted by The Oregonian July 27, 2007 11:27AM
Categories: Breaking News, Yamhill County

NEWBERG -- A long-planned bypass to ease congestion at the gateway to Oregon's wine country was dealt a blow today when a key player dropped out of the planning process.

Oregon Department of Transportation officials, working with Macquarie Infrastructure Group, an Australian corporation, had hoped that a public-private agreement to build and operate the so-called Newberg-Dundee Bypass would generate enough money through tolling to make the project profitable.

A review of the project indicated that wasn't possible, said Adam Torgerson, an ODOT spokesman.

"We've agreed that it's just not financially feasible under a public-private concession agreement to build this project as planned," Torgerson said.

Still on the table are a number of options included in a report by an outside analyst, Bear Stearns, which suggested that a public-sector model could cut financing costs of the estimated $500 million project.

Chief among them are a public-sector tolling option, building the 11-mile bypass in phases and reducing the scope of the planned project.

Torgerson said ODOT officials have not yet had time to thoroughly evaluate the consultant's suggestions, although he did say that scrapping the public-private plan will likely delay any construction start beyond the 2008 or 2009 dates originally eyed.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/07/key_private_partner_drops_out.html

[NJD]

Good. Both Macquarie tolling projects (Sunrise and Newberg-Dundee) were going to rip off Oregonians... why let the private sector charge twice as much as a public tolling project would equate to? Haven't we been paying attention to their rip-off schemes in Indiana and Texas?

[WonderlandPark]

Damn, nothing is going to get done about this. :shakinghead:

[pdxman]

^^Ditto...The public is ridiculous--they want better roads and less congestion but they bitch about tolling and then vote down any tax increases. HELLO!! Who the hell do they think is going to pay for it?! I guess the magical road fairy will just wave her wand and then POOF! Sunrise corrior and Newberg bypass! Its that easy...I'm usually against privatizing things but when you the let the public try to make decisions things will never get done.

[MarkDaMan]

^there is ABSOLUTELY no reason a private company should have control to toll public roads. If a private company wants to purchase right of ways, build a roadway, and toll the hell out of it, all the more power too them But I have to agree with Rep. DeFazio in this Blue Oregon article.

In the Mother Jones article, they point to the toll road scandal in Indiana -- where Republican Governor Mitch Daniels gave a multinational company the rights to charge tolls for 75 years. There's an extensive segment with Congressman Peter DeFazio -- due to become the chairman of the Highway and Transit Subcommittee of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Here's that clip:

The hearing was a fairly docile affair—that is, until Oregon's Peter DeFazio, the ranking Democrat on the subcommittee, got his turn questioning [Governor Mitch] Daniels. "So you're saying that there's no political will to raise the tolls," he began, "but if you enter into a binding contract which gives a private entity the right to infinitely raise tolls, then that'll happen—but politically you couldn't say we're going to go out and raise the tolls."

"Well, you're a busy man, Congressman," Daniels responded dryly. "I don't expect you to understand our state."

"No, sir. I'm just asking a question," DeFazio shot back, his voice rising. "Are we outsourcing political will to a private entity here?"

When DeFazio spoke with Mother Jones months later, he was still seething. Daniels, he said, "just screwed the state of Indiana and the people of the state of Indiana." In his view, mig-Cintra has "a license to print money here. They do the deal, put money up front, turn around and go to a bank, which will gladly give them whatever they want, and pay themselves back, and they are left with equity and debt. They are projecting that they already would have broken even around the 15th year. So we've committed an asset for 75 years and after 15 years the state could have been making money on it."

DeFazio continued, "When you look at the Chicago Skyway, that's even worse. They are not even reinvesting the proceeds of the sale in transportation. They're using them for operating costs. That would be like anybody selling their assets in order to live. You can't sell your assets very long to put food on the table—before long you're out of assets. Chicago has sold an asset, which will be extraordinarily profitable for the company that got it."

DeFazio's take harkens back to Eisenhower and his vision of a national highway system as vital to economic development, commerce, and even national security. "It's a scam, basically," he says. "And you lose control of your transportation infrastructure. It means you fragment the system ultimately. It just does not make sense for an integrated national transportation system."
http://www.blueoregon.com/2006/12/peter_defazio_i.html


Once the roadway is congested enough, or failing, the residents will eventually tax themselves, or allow a public agency to toll, to fund the upgrade or risk having the highway completely shut down.

[WonderlandPark]

Once the roadway is congested enough, or failing, the residents will eventually tax themselves, or allow a public agency to toll, to fund the upgrade or risk having the highway completely shut down.

The road has been "congested enough" for 20 years now. Fact is that Dundee is way, way too small to tackle this. The lack of inertia is shocking, this is a state issue and has to be handled with state and federal funding. To say that Dundee should tax its way out of the problem is silly, what quadruple the local property tax? That will not even cover half of it. At some point, a bigger entity has to take a pool of funds and do the bypass. Then there are locals who post those asinine "don't build a tollway" signs. WTF?

Screw it, to get to the Coast, it is faster to drive way down out of the way to friggin' Salem already.

Same thing with Sandy and Sisters, they have strangleholds over some vital roads for tourism and commerce in Oregon, and those problems have been around for a decade or more and absolutely NOTHING is being done about it.

[MarkDaMan]

I agree that Dundee is too small to pay for this themselves. However, all these small communities team up to defeat any tax, gas or otherwise, to produce a statewide road improvement effort. I personally find other ways around, even if it means longer detours, while these small towns continue to see more and more congestion. Between traffic in their precious little towns getting as bad as some stretches of Portland, and new residents moving in, eventually they will look at local and than statewide solutions when the price tag shocks them into reality.

[zilfondel]

commuter rail...

But in all reality major highways should not run right through small towns or downtowns. Europe did it right by routing all of their major highways & freeways AROUND the cities and towns, not through them, since that just creates conflict.

[MarkDaMan]

City's pick for Chavez street: 4th Avenue, not Interstate
Portland commissioners vote 4-1 to rename the downtown
Friday, November 16, 2007
JAMES MAYER
The Oregonian

Race, promises and politics all came to a head Thursday as the Portland City Council voted to rename Fourth Avenue in downtown for farmworker champion Cesar Chavez.

At the end of an emotional four-hour hearing that capped months of rancorous debate and charges of racism, council members said they hoped the compromise would be seen as a fitting tribute to a Latino hero in a city that has none.

"I see this as a way of taking it from not-in-my-backyard to putting Cesar Chavez in our front yard," Commissioner Dan Saltzman said.

In choosing Fourth Avenue, the council turned down a proposal pushed by Mayor Tom Potter and a committee of Latino leaders to rename North Interstate Avenue for Chavez.

The name change, passed on a 4-1 vote, won't be official until the city planning commission holds hearings and the renaming proposal returns to the council for a final vote. An ordinance setting out that procedure will come to the council next week.

Potter cast the only vote against renaming Fourth Avenue, saying he was saddened by the action.

"In my heart, I will always believe that renaming Interstate was the right thing to do," he said.

The other commissioners spoke about what they saw as a flawed process that unnecessarily set the Latino community against North Portland businesses and residents near Interstate Avenue.

"I think it's time to end the ugliness," said Saltzman, who along with Commissioner Erik Sten came up with the Fourth Avenue compromise and sold it to the other council members during intense conversations Wednesday.

Saltzman said the city was at legal risk for not using the proper procedures in exploring the Interstate renaming. And he worried that a threatened referendum sponsored by opponents would turn into a divisive debate over immigration policy.

Sten first voted against the motion to substitute a resolution renaming Fourth Avenue for one renaming Interstate, even though it was his idea, arguing that the hearing convinced him that the Latino community deserved the affirmation. But he voted for the new resolution renaming Fourth.

"I do believe we can come together over Fourth Avenue," he said.

But if the commissioners thought their eleventh-hour compromise would calm the storm of bad feeling, they were mistaken. Dozens of supporters and opponents of the Interstate renaming kept waves of recriminations coming -- from accusations of intolerance aimed at all sides to criticism of the city's handling of the entire effort.

For months, supporters of renaming Interstate have argued for the need to claim a Latino landmark by honoring Chavez. But the idea met with vigorous opposition from Interstate neighbors who argued that they strongly identify with the current name.

For Interstate supporters, the idea of switching to Fourth was insulting.

Maria Lisa Johnson, executive director of the Latino Network, lashed out at the four council members for substituting their judgment for the choice of the Latino leaders who picked Interstate.

Decisions in liberal Portland "are still made behind closed doors by white men who have our best interest at heart," Johnson said.

Ron Herndon, executive director of Albina Head Start and a longtime civil rights activist, said the renaming committee took the commissioners at their word when they indicated they supported the plan. Now, the committee feels betrayed, he said.

"What makes it worse, is you are talking to people who have had promises broken for generations," Herndon said.

Commissioners defended their change of heart, arguing that their early backing for Interstate depended on support from the neighboring community, and when that didn't materialize, they had a right to reconsider and to look for a way out of the mess.

For the most part, Chavez supporters ignored the commissioners' compromise idea and praised Potter for sticking up for renaming Interstate.

The businesses and residents who opposed renaming Interstate thanked the commissioners for coming up with an alternative and repeated their objections.

"I don't think I'll vote for another chief of police for mayor," said Pamela Brooks-Haines, co-owner of a coffee shop on Interstate Avenue. "It takes tact and diplomacy, and you have allowed this to be about race and racism, and I am disgusted."

Chris Duffy, chairwoman of the Arbor Lodge Neighborhood Association, said she still opposed renaming Interstate, but she called for a time of healing.

In downtown, the new idea to rename Fourth Avenue for Chavez didn't exactly get a warm reception from the surrounding community.

"No way, it's between Third and Fifth, and that's why it should stay Fourth Avenue," said Andrew McKinney, a bike messenger. "I don't see why it needs to change."

Samantha Moreland, a barista at the Three Lions Bakery at Fourth and Taylor, said a more fitting tribute would be a park, a special event or even a statue.

"It's just a street," she said. "Isn't there something better we could do to honor him?"

Several business owners declined to discuss the issue, deferring to their corporate bosses. Even owners of small, privately owned businesses were reluctant to take up the issue.

Sandra McDonough, president of the Portland Business Alliance, the city's major business lobbying group, said the group would have no position.

Stuart Tomlinson contributed to this report. James Mayer: 503-294-5988; jimmayer@news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1195188903294690.xml&coll=7

[Pavlov's Dog]

Personally I think NW Couch would have been a much better solution. It's a prominent street(which will only become more prominent with the Burnside coupling) the runs the socio-economic spectrum in it's 19 blocks. There are also relatively few business which would have to change stationary. Since it begins with C the system wouldn't be messed up like renaming 4th.

[MarkDaMan]

^that would never happen. The NW nimbys would blow their tops off if anything in their precious neighborhood was changed, especially a street name!

[Echo Park]

What an odd city to have a street named after a latino leader.

[rsbear]

How about 122nd or some other street that doesn't have much in the way of existing identity?

[Pavlov's Dog]

I always thought a boulevard was a street with a median with trees. 4th avenue is most certainly not a boulevard by the traditional definition.

[Sekkle]

What an odd city to have a street named after a latino leader.

I was a little surprised, too, when I first heard about this, but I think it’s good that the city wants to recognize a prominent labor leader/minority rights activist. Portland is a very progressive, tolerant city. The fact that it has a relatively small Latino community shouldn’t be a deterrent to re-naming a street for an important figure in US history, and a source of pride to a community that is growing in numbers and influence throughout the country. Phoenix, which obviously has a much larger Latino population, has no streets named after Chavez (though there is a high school) and he was from Arizona. (It’s also pathetic that there’s no MLK Blvd in Phoenix, just a “Martin Luther King, Jr. Circle” which is literally a 150’ long cul-de-sac with 6 houses).

Of course, I think the city of Portland could have handled the process a lot differently and spared some controversy.

[PacificNW]

Couch should not be renamed... It was named after a historical citizen of early Portland. The city is constantly creating more streets. Name one of the new, "important", streets after Mr. Chavez.

I don't have a problem with 4th being renamed but can't a avenue/street with a name/letter, instead a number, be considered (besides NW Couch, or other street/avenue previously named in honor of someone else)? For example: There must be a C Street/Avenue in Portland not currently named after someone.

[Pavlov's Dog]

I have a good one. How about Bush street in SE?

[Snowden352]

There's also a Clinton st. :D

[Dougall5505]

this doesn't make any sense. why fourth?

[NJD]

I love historic names... not the ones named to honor people, but the tradtional historic names... I like Front Avenue, it is a rich historical name for the actual city's 'front' during Portland's centralized shipping days. I like Interstate, Capitol Highway, Main Street, Union and Grand Avenues for they each hold a part of Portland's history. Some call them just bland names, but that is not why people named them that in the first place; there is reason to their naming. Why does Portland, along with every single medium sized city in America, rename streets for noteworthy figures from other places. In my travels abroad cities with direct connections to the figures name streets and squares after them. This makes common sense, but no, there are 100's of MLK's all across America making the name less meaningful. No one stands up for these renamings because they fear they will appear racist. Now, we are forced to name something after Chavez because little white Portland could never be racist, could we? Bah, Naito has more of a right to be named after a street because he did stuff here, but I still would prefer Front Avenue. If we name 4th, we might as well rename all the numbered avenues with labor leaders, minority leaders, activists and the like... who started this whole mess, and how did we get conned into accepting it?

[tworivers]

Ever since a writer in Portland Monthly suggested Broadway be re-named for Chavez, I've been thinking that a downtown street makes fine sense. No one is seriously going to consider changing Broadway, of course, but 4th seems like a good compromise. Why not? It runs right by City Hall and right through the heart of the city. Rather than having the new street be largely out of sight and out of mind of the city's business and political class, this will put his name and legacy front and center.

The mayor's infantile behavior is just bizarre. He's looking more and more loopy and paranoid, and I'm so glad he's not running for office again. His and the name-change committee's refusal to bend at all on Interstate is really unfortunate (not to mention the broad-brush charges of racism), as is the council paying no heed whatsoever to their own rules.

Echo Park, we may not be remotely as diverse as L.A., but the Latino community is still a significant and increasing presence in the city and the idea originated out of that community. It doesn't seem odd to me at all.

[tworivers]

NJD, you have a good point. When every city has their token MLK, the gesture becomes more hollow. But I still feel like naming a street after Chavez makes sense, partially to acknowledge the evolving demographics of PDX, and partially just to update the fact that so many streets are named after wealthy white landowners. We definitely should be looking more to local history. Elizabeth Gurley Flynn Ave? Marie Equi St? We should at least have a C.E.S. Wood street somewhere downtown...

[PacificNW]

Why not 82nd? Plus, there is a large Hispanic population in the adjoining area.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Couch should not be renamed... It was named after a historical citizen of early Portland. The city is constantly creating more streets. Name one of the new, "important", streets after Mr. Chavez.

I don't have a problem with 4th being renamed but can't a avenue/street with a name/letter, instead a number, be considered (besides NW Couch, or other street/avenue previously named in honor of someone else)? For example: There must be a C Street/Avenue in Portland not currently named after someone.

Personaly, I don't think they should be renameing any streets, want to create a new street and name it after somebody, that is fine by me.

How about 122nd or some other street that doesn't have much in the way of existing identity?

You would have people bitching about how it was so far away from the city center or that it was not in a nice area,etc.

[Tim the Enchanter]

The mayor's infantile behavior is just bizarre. He's looking more and more loopy and paranoid, and I'm so glad he's not running for office again. His and the name-change committee's refusal to bend at all on Interstate is really unfortunate (not to mention the broad-brush charges of racism), as is the council paying no heed whatsoever to their own rules.


Since he is not running for re election, he knows he can act like a jack ass all he wants.

Who knows, perhaps he has just gone crazy.

[zilfondel]

I prefer statues to naming streets to remember people, imo... I like the Teddy Roosevelt statue in the Park Blocks. Why couldn't we have an MLK and Chavez statue instead?

Renaming streets just seems like a cheap-ass knock-off way to "memorialize" people who have made actual contributions to society without actually doing so.

I dont know, just my opinion. There are some notable counter-examples, of course... but like someone posted above, MLK's are a dime a dozen these days.

[bvpcvm]

rather than renaming a street, why not just find an intersection and call it "chavez square"?

[tworivers]

want to create a new street and name it after somebody, that is fine by me.

A new street where? Tanasbourne?

rather than renaming a street, why not just find an intersection and call it "chavez square"?

I have a feeling that would not be perceived as "enough".

How about Pioneer Square to Chavez Square? That would be cool with me, but people would fight it.

[pdxskyline]

There are tons of better ways to do this. Rename/build a public building or make a statue. Something everyone can appreciate and come together with. Not something that divides us just because a small group of people are not asking, but inflexibly demanding, their way or the highway (no pun intended). The annoying practice of race-baiting in this process has to stop and be seen for what it really is: juvenile name-calling.

I agree with the idea that existing streets shouldn't be renamed in that manner. Let's face it: Do we really honor MLK or Chavez by driving over or walking on something named after them?

It would likely be less acrimonious and more fitting for something else to be named, not a street. And yes, could we please keep it local?

[Tim the Enchanter]

They really do nothing good for their cause by comeing across all whiney, with the "my way or the highway" attitude.

Their just pissed that their not getting their way, if 4th ave is gunna get re named, then their getting their street (one next to city hall no less), I really don't get their deal.

[MarkDaMan]

I knew this was coming...

seen on the news at a neighborhood meeting in OTCT..."This is China Town not Mexican Town"

It appears 4th avenue is going to face a lot of resistance from the OTCT neighborhood. Another fight, another mess.

[PacificNW]

For the amount of money I imagine it is going to take to change signs, etc. the city, and those supporting the of honoring Mr. Chavez, could combine their resources (money, etc.) and have a memorial (statue?) commissioned to be placed in a downtown public park. I hope this does not turn into a racial issue.

[65MAX]

I hope this does not turn into a racial issue.

Too late.

Where's the push to get a JFK Blvd? Or a Mark Hatfield Dr?

I know.... how about a Jesus Christ Avenue? Where's the uproar from the Christians?

Seriously, if the Latino community wants to honor Chesar Chavez by naming something after him, fine. But there are rules governing the renaming of city streets, put in place after Front was renamed to Naito. It's not just a matter of changing a few street signs. There are real costs imposed on any business or residence located on the street. At the very least, follow the rules. Oh yeah, and don't piss off the neighborhood where you want to rename the street. Not a great way to gain support for your cause (Oops... too late).

[alexjon]

Pretty sure that a large amount of streets in Portland are named for rich white families.

[rsbear]

Pretty sure that a large amount of streets in Portland are named for rich white families.

Many of the streets in Portland are named for people/families that were prominent during the pioneer days when the city was first founded and contributed to the development of the city (insert your own opinion about their contribution here). Most of them became well off (not sure "rich" is accurate for all of them) at some point in their lives but many came to Oregon with little resources and made a success of themselves.

I think the same is true in your town of Seattle, alexjon.

Now, 150 years later, it's time to honor another pioneer, and name a street after Chavez. But please don't dismiss the history and importance of our existing landmarks by dissing them as being named for "rich white families".

[alexjon]

Many of the streets in Portland are named for people/families that were prominent during the pioneer days when the city was first founded and contributed to the development of the city (insert your own opinion about their contribution here). Most of them became well off (not sure "rich" is accurate for all of them) at some point in their lives but many came to Oregon with little resources and made a success of themselves.

I think the same is true in your town of Seattle, alexjon.

Now, 150 years later, it's time to honor another pioneer, and name a street after Chavez. But please don't dismiss the history and importance of our existing landmarks by dissing them as being named for "rich white families".

No, I'm not dismissing anything; pardon the flippant tone of what I said.

It's just a flash counter-statement to the whole "Why should we name a street after some mexican" sentiment that is running rampant all through Portland.

[pdxman]

I don't care who it is, i don't think we should be re-naming any streets in portland anymore. Naming? Sure. Re-naming? No.

[PacificNW]

Why not name the new plaza/park going in downtown Portland (behind the Fox Tower and across the street from the upcoming Park Avenue West tower "Chavez Plaza"? In fact, I am going to send an email to the city suggesting this idea before this whole issue really turns ugly.

[alexjon]

A highly-trafficked road is very different from a park block.

They wanted a road in an area that is traditionally home to many minority communities, but the gentrified population said "no". The mayor throws them a silly bone that doesn't really do much to honor the spirit of the original renaming, and that inflames the opposition even more.

WTG, PDX.

[PacificNW]

⬆ I take it you haven't visited many of the world's plaza's/parks named after historical individuals.. The city expects this plaza to be highly utilized by the public. Naming it honoring Mr. Chavez could be as educational to the masses as naming a street, IMO.

[alexjon]

I take it you don't know me very well.

Renaming streets is far less painful than people are making it out to be, and I'm finding it funny that so many people are rolling their eyes and saying "Oh great, I can't wait til the mexican groups start calling this a racism thing!"

I don't recall any great people being named "Interstate", and I don't remember being able to take Interstate all the way into Vancouver in the recent past.

I do recall, however, that there is a more notable plaza within feet of PB5.

[PacificNW]

⬆ You are correct...I don't know you, period, but your statement implied that naming a plaza/park wasn't on par of naming a street in honor of someone. That said..... Renaming streets may not be painful, in the usual sense, but it can be expensive for the city as well as for those who have business interests aligning the street. Are you willing to fork over some of your Seattle earned money to help defray the costs? BTW, I wouldn't have a problem renaming Pioneer Courthouse Square or the South Park lots but considering there is a new plazing rising in downtown without a name...at least it was a suggestion. Does Seattle have a Chavez Avenue, Street or Blvd.? I take it that it must since you are so interested in the PDX issue.

BTW, I just received an email from the mayor thanking me for the suggestion. I am sure he is receiving a lot of divisive emails, as well as suggestions, regarding this issue. Like I said: I would not like this to become more of a racial issue than it is currently.

[alexjon]

I am interested in Portland issues since I lived there and since I plan on living there again in the future.

My issue with PB5 is that it's behind buildings and generally secluded. It might be quaint, but there are so many parks like that. It might not have a settled name, but it's not done, and while it will be done soon, it does nothing to defray the immediate situation.

And as far as additional costs and expenses go, there is no good way to address that, since everything has a pricetag nowadays

[PacificNW]

⬆ Do you think renaming any street, whether it's 4th Avenue or another, the change will happen overnight? Naw...won't happen. It will take time, and money, before the prior name is dropped entirely..plus, I understand the Hispanic community, and supporters, do not care for the idea of renaming of 4th Avenue.. Am I right, or wrong...?

Like you, being a former resident of both Portland and Seattle, I try to follow issue's in both cities. I think this particular issue has reached the point where only someone's idea/suggestion of naming/renaming a park/plaza/street "just" might gain some support within the "whole community". I don't think this issue was handled properly from the beginning....it appears that the Mayor, with little public input, tried to push this through. At least this is my impression.

[alexjon]

I think instead of what's going on-- a series of people speaking out and calling this move "wrong" and arguing ad nauseum, they should just come out with alternate suggestions as you have, and I really do appreciate people like you for your ideas.

[bvpcvm]

i know it kind of reeks of europe, but i like it when cities name streets after people, especially when they use the full name - it's not obvious that lovejoy was named after a person, but you can't help it with places like max-weber-platz in munich or avenue victor hugo in paris. in fact, here we are, supposedly a center of the creative class, we should be honoring more creative people this way. how about a linus pauling boulevard? or douglas adams avenue (http://rename42nd.org/)?

[IHEARTPDX]

how about a linus pauling boulevard? or douglas adams avenue (http://rename42nd.org/)?

If a street in Portland were to be named after a science fiction writer it should be Ursula K. LeGuinn since she lives here...this of course would be after she passes, she's still alive.
While looking at a list of famous Portlanders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Portlanders), I noticed that both the new Bionic woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionic_Woman_%282007_TV_series%29) (Katee Sackhoff) and the original legendary Bionic woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bionic_Woman) (Lindsay Wagner) are both from Portland. I think 10th avenue should be renamed Bionic Woman Way.

[MarkDaMan]

If a street in Portland were to be named after a science fiction writer it should be Ursula K.

I vote for Ron Hubbard...should be a good draw to get the crazy rich, crazy hollywood actors up here and spending their money on condos.

[alexjon]

I was going to suggest that one children's writer, but I forgot her name-- and I was almost going to look into getting my grandma to swing for one of those places above the library dedicated to her.

Another suggestion: Randall O'Toole Way. The stretch of I-5 from the columbia to the rose quarter. Stop-and-go traffic and people sick from pollution along the fringes.

[MarkDaMan]

^Beverly Cleary?

Yes, she does need a street named after her!

[tworivers]

^^^ Good one.

Ursula Le Guin, too.

Er, wait, is Beverly Cleary still alive?

[alexjon]

^Beverly Cleary?

Yes, she does need a street named after her!


Haha, oops.

That's what I get for living in Beaverton for so long... the exhaust got to me after a while!

[MarkDaMan]

Er, wait, is Beverly Cleary still alive?

I should be doing work but am excited to get out of here for the long weekend and am not good for much today, anyway, Beverly Cleary appears to be alive. I say appears because I'm pulling the info from the internet not of personal knowledge. Wiki says she was born in 1916.

[PacificNW]

Chavez street name scrapped
Portland Business Journal


Portland city leaders have, for now, abandoned plans to rename a downtown street after Cesar E. Chavez.

The Portland City Council on Wednesday voted unanimously against the plan to rename Fourth Avenue, the street on which Portland's City Hall sits, after the Mexican-American labor leader. The council had floated the idea after North Portland neighbors had protested a previous proposal to rename North Interstate Avenue after Chavez.

In a separate vote, the council also rejected Mayor Tom Potter's Interstate name-change proposal. Potter and Commissioner Erik Sten backed the notion; commissioners Sam Adams, Randy Leonard and Dan Saltzman opposed it.

The argument first pitted Portland's Latino community, which had sought the Interstate name change, against neighbors who protested changing the street's name whatsoever. The council has contentiously discussed the matter. Potter walked out of a recent work session after stating that the other commissioners weren't taking his opinion seriously.

The council reemerged with the Southwest and Northwest Fourth Avenue proposal. The street runs through Portland's Chinatown section. Asian leaders and business owners along the stretch vehemently opposed the idea.

The television station KGW, a Business Journal news partner, reported that Portland's Latino community could reconvene its renaming committee in a few weeks. The committee could try to rename another street for Chavez.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2007/11/19/daily26.html?jst=b_ln_hl


If there are people determined to have a street named in honor of Mr. Chavez I suggest, again, 82nd Avenue...

[alexjon]

Far too much negative publicity around 82nd; and besides, isn't it also referred to as the Avenue of Roses?

[twofiftyfive]

They can name it "The Cesar Chavez 82nd Avenue of Roses".

[MarkDaMan]

82nd Avenue is now the 'Avenue of Roses'. Stupid to call it that...There would be huge opposition from the business owners, I'm thinking Easport WalMart Center, that have tried to change the 'image' of the street...by building a friggin WalMart no less...idiots. Plus 82nd runs through a couple cities and two counties. I have a feeling Airport Way is going to be their next target. Airport Way should be renamed for a prominent Oregonian since it is the gateway that most tourists first see in Oregon.

Let's see, how about Burnside, or Division?

[PacificNW]

Isn't Burnside named after someone? Maybe the whole renaming idea should be dropped for a long while. When they begin the debate in the future "just maybe" they should get a "large cross section" of Portland residents involved. Their vision(s) could then be presented to the city leaders for discussion and vote.

[nwroots]

Good, the City Council voted it down. Fourth avenue simply is not a good street to rename under these circumstances. Maybe the citizen's of Portland could vote to rename streets in the future. (or at least people in the proposed streets' neighborhood) In other words, let the people decide next time! I liked how the Latino and chinese community were so active in voicing their opinions. Good for them.

[PacificNW]

I agree but I was under the impression that most of the Chinese population, and their business interests, had relocated out of Chinatown to other area's of the city...

[zilfondel]

They could rename Division Street. That name sucks - and... I mean, if we're going to talk about racism, "division" is by definition the exact opposite of what human rights and equality is about so...

Plus, since only white people live on it, it would piss them off. :D

[bvpcvm]

Isn't Burnside named after someone? Maybe the whole renaming idea should be dropped for a long while. When they begin the debate in the future "just maybe" they should get a "large cross section" of Portland residents involved. Their vision(s) could then be presented to the city leaders for discussion and vote.

that was kind of my point when i mentioned max-weber-platz and avenue victor hugo. a huge number of streets in portland, including burnside, are named for people, but it's not obvious to anyone who doesn't take a special interest in it. here's to including first names in street names!!!!

[alexjon]

They could rename Division Street. That name sucks - and... I mean, if we're going to talk about racism, "division" is by definition the exact opposite of what human rights and equality is about so...

Plus, since only white people live on it, it would piss them off. :D

Oh man, good idea!

Up to the last part, but a good idea!

[Tim the Enchanter]

Good, the City Council voted it down. Fourth avenue simply is not a good street to rename under these circumstances. Maybe the citizen's of Portland could vote to rename streets in the future. (or at least people in the proposed streets' neighborhood) In other words, let the people decide next time! I liked how the Latino and chinese community were so active in voicing their opinions. Good for them.

It was indeed good they voted it down.

[joeplayer1989]

im for renaming division

[PacificNW]

That could work...if the people along in the "huge" area support the change..

[Okstate]

But there's song by Elliott Smith that talks about Division street... then what!?

[bvpcvm]

^^^ duh! elliot smith street!!!!!! :-)

[hymalaia]

But there's song by Elliott Smith that talks about Division street... then what!?

heh, that's what I was thinking.

I really dislike the idea of renaming numbered avenues, which make it easy to orient oneself. Especially if you aren't from around here. Downtown you already have Broadway and Park messing people up. 4th is too close to those. If you rename any numbered ave make it further out. How about 15th ave on the eastside? In honor of ne gentrification. I mean just to get these re-namers to shut up...

In whole I think this renaming crap is ridiculous. Any idea who we can name nw23rd after? What about Hawthorne? Yea i know he was an actual person but that was a long time ago... :koko:

btw I love that 82nd ave is considered "avenue of roses"... I find it hilarious.

[JoshYent]

I have been seeing trucks heading westboud hauling 30-40ton rocks (their weight is spray painted on the side) every morning while heading into downtown for more than a month. They look like size of rocks used to construct or expand a jetty? Or is there a huge project going out west we havent heard about? they have been traveling in convoys of 2-5 trucks.......

looks to be a massive project :banana:

[65MAX]

Follow the trucks, maybe? Could be for the Hwy 217 widening just south of the Sunset.

[JoshYent]

Follow the trucks, maybe? Could be for the Hwy 217 widening just south of the Sunset.

they go beyond that, I get on 26wb somewhere between Shute rd, and 185th depending on traffic and my morning stops.....i have tomorrow off, i may grab my camera and investigate.

[Okstate]

I've been seeing them too.

[scleeb]

rt

[JoshYent]

I've been seeing them too.

they are massive.....i initially thought that they were being transported to a rock quarry to be crushed up into gravel.......but im thinking something larger.....either the repair of the railroad through the coast range.....or maybe repair of some of the roads that could have had landslides??

[JoshYent]

still seeing rocks, havent figured out where they're going, i would really like to solve this =D

[sowat]

Giant rocks, heading to the beach, scare Portland commuters
By Joseph Rose, The Oregonian
February 09, 2010

see link for photo:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/giant_rocks_heading_to_the_bea.html

How's this for a highway mystery?

Someone's hauling giant boulders one by one through some of the Portland area's heaviest traffic. Freaked-out motorists have reported seeing the towering rocks chained to trailers on Interstate 5, the Fremont Bridge and U.S. 26.

Who is it?

"We can't say for sure," said Lou Torres, an Oregon Department of Ttansportation spokesman. "Apparently, whoever's hauling these things didn't need a permit."

Actually, the answer can be found with a quick search of federal stimulus projects. The 35-ton boulders are headed to the coast, where the Port of Girabaldi is using them to repair Tillamook Bay's north jetty.

The $16.1 million stimulus-funded project will improve treacherous coastal waters that have claimed the lives of 20 fishermen since 1992. "Great to see the big rocks finally arriving," said Tillamook County Commissioner Tim Josi.

The project calls for 1,100 boulders from two Washington quarries, with three a day rolling through Portland until August.

Kevin Greenwood, the port's manager, understands why the rocks give commuters a scare. Each is about the size of the movie boulder that chased Indiana Jones.

"Fortunately," he said. "they're not pefectly round like that."

[philopdx]

Reported on Skyscraperpage first.

[PDXsteve24]

The giant rocks are heading for the port of Garibaldi to repair Tillamook Bay's north jetty. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/giant_rocks_heading_to_the_bea.html:cool:

[City of R'lyeh]

Stonehenge in PNW???

[CouvScott]

Stonehenge in PNW???

Actually, we already have one. It's near Marys Hill, WA. Check out 45deg 41' 39.72"N and 120deg 48'21.76"W on GoogleEarth.

[JoshYent]

Its Solved! Yes!

[JoshYent]

They are clearing the hillside of trees and what not........possibly erosion control, or maybe they're making that section of the highway wider?

Before terwilliger, right handside south bound.

[JoshYent]

we need pix!

[RoseCtyRoks]

^ Yeah, they've got a lot of work ahead of them for sure.....clearing trees, blackberry bushes, ivy, for the Iowa St. viaduct bridge const. project. They'll eventually replace with native trees and plants........Read here:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/03/dont_be_alarmed_that_huge_clea.html

[bvpcvm]

this has me a little confused; is the "Iowa St Viadact" part of I-5? if they're rebuilding it, that's a pretty big, disruptive project. i'm surprised we haven't heard more about it before now. or is there a chance this viaduct is not actually part of i-5?

[Sekkle]

^ It's part of I-5. all the info you need right here...
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION1/iowaviaduct/

[JoshYent]

ahh excellent! thanks for the info! It is always good to see a project like this =D that section of I-5 definitely needs some improvements!

[JoshYent]

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2010/04/post_15.html


A controversial proposal to build Oregon's only privately financed and operated toll road, almost all of it crossing prime farmland south of Portland, is running into stiff opposition from local residents, farmers and elected officials.

Backers of the Coastal Parkway -- a proposed 11.77-mile four-lane highway linking Interstate 5 near Woodburn with Dayton in Yamhill County -- have been meeting quietly since last fall with landowners and officials in potentially affected towns.

But their apparent goal of building grass-roots support, one willing seller at a time, doesn't seem to be working.

"I'm a little fascinated by their assertion that there is any support for this at all," Marion County Commissioner Patti Milne said. "We don't need a bypass here that does nothing but solve Yamhill County's traffic problems."

Milne and fellow commissioners Sam Brentano and Janet Carlson are scheduled to meet with parkway promoters April 15, "just to hear first-hand where things stand," she said.

View full sizeBrent Wojahn/The Oregonian/2006
When the idea of establishing toll roads came up in 2006 as a way to relieve traffic congestion in the Dundee area, the reaction from residents in the area was swift and clear. A new toll-road proposal also faces an uphill battle.
Newberg businessman Robert Youngman, president of Royal Chinook Development Co., has, to date, been the parkway's most visible public spokesman. He met with Donald-area farmers at a local cafe March 13 and has made recent presentations to city councils and planners in Dundee and Newberg. Similar talks are set for later in April with councilors in St. Paul and Donald.

Reached at his Newberg office this week, Youngman declined to comment on a project that, if completed, would be only the third or fourth privately operated toll road west of the Mississippi River.

"We appreciate your call," he said. "We'll be in touch."

Phil Martinson, a West Linn civil engineer who has attended many of the same meetings with Youngman, said it's too early to say much about the project. "Hopefully, within a few weeks, I can give you something more," he said.

Youngman, according to meeting minutes, told Dundee City Council members in October that the Coastal Parkway's financial backers want to proceed because they don't believe the long-planned and publicly financed Newberg-Dundee Bypass will ever be built.

He tagged the Coastal Parkway's estimated cost at $260 million and said the limited-access roadway's preferred option would have only three interchanges -- at Interstate 5, at Oregon 219 north of St. Paul and at Oregon 18 near Dayton. The route crosses prime farmland in the French Prairie area of northern Marion County.

Without one or the other projects, he said, commercial and commuter traffic on Oregon 99W through Dundee will continue to remain hopelessly gridlocked.

Asked to identify the Coastal Parkway's financial supporters, Youngman listed Hampton Lumber, Evergreen Aviation, Cascade Steel Rolling Mills, the Oregon Trucking Associations and the Business Transportation Group.

Steve Zika, Hampton Lumber's CEO, said he wasn't familiar with details of the Coastal Parkway proposal, but said any alternative to the current congestion jamming Yamhill County's main highways would be welcome.

Bob Russell, executive director of the Oregon Trucking Assocations, said his organization "has not indicated its support for any alternative to the Newberg-Dundee Bypass, "nor have we provided any financial backing."

None of the other groups cited by Youngman as backers immediately returned calls.

Sterling Anderson, Marion County's planning manager, said that even if sufficient funding is found, the Coastal Parkway will run into significant legal and regulatory obstacles.

State requirements mandating that exclusive farmland remain in parcels of at least 80 acres, for instance, would have to be addressed, since a new road running through the middle of that land would create two parcels of 40 acres each, he said.

In addition, the need to build a new bridge crossing the Willamette River, and perhaps the Yamhill River, would present huge hurdles for developers.

"This would be the biggest, most significant land-use case the county has dealt with in my 26 years here," Anderson said. "And the biggest road project since I-5 was built."

State Transportation Department officials have sat in on several of Youngman's presentations, but said it's too early to assess the project's chances of success.

"We're treating it as if it were a private development," said Tim Potter, ODOT's Area 3 Region 2 manager. "When it's to the point they want to talk seriously about traffic impacts and the exact locations of tying into our road system, we'll roll up our sleeves and get serious."

Local residents, meanwhile, say that French Prairie farmland is not for sale, certainly not for a new highway.

"Farmers here are united," said Marcie Garritt, a St. Paul resident and member of the town's planning commission. "Whether the route would cross their land or not, they all agree -- you don't do this to farmland."

-- Dana Tims

[bvpcvm]

I really doubt this will ever happen. It is interesting that these pro-driving people are trying to tout it as something good for the environment.

[WonderlandPark]

This is arguably the most needed highway in the state of Oregon, sadly, it will probably never happen.

[JordanL]

Doesn't this involve a new bridge over the Willamette?