Halifax in 2001 (and some before/after shots)

[someone123]

I recently found a few old photos taken in 2001 (I think). They are not very good quality photos because back then I had a low-end point-and-shoot film camera, but a lot of the scenes are interesting. A few of the views have completely changed and others remain the same.

I'll start with a few "before and after" shots. I didn't plan for the photos I shot this past summer to correspond to the old photos, but some of them did, more or less.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/8129807109_d1e0465e52_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8324/8129834174_4228ff847a_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8056/8129834838_2377508626_b.jpg

[someone123]

Some originals.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8327/8129687287_d486915dc4_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/8129714280_279b66fd78_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8469/8129686191_d6825ffbb5_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/8129713170_19b2252c51_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8328/8129684945_cfdd56e341_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/8129711980_77b845cdbf_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8187/8129683755_d7eb86c96e_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8336/8129682991_4278040404_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8333/8129709686_44475d853e_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8475/8129709004_502d2cd025_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8463/8129680931_c850dd9dde_b.jpg

[terrynorthend]

Some originals.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8333/8129709686_44475d853e_b.jpg



Cool. I had forgotten how urban Queen street felt when the old Infirmary was still up. I also love the difference looking northwest across the Commons from Citadel Hill. Much infill.

[Keith P.]

Cool. I had forgotten how urban Queen street felt when the old Infirmary was still up. I also love the difference looking northwest across the Commons from Citadel Hill. Much infill.

That was such an awful, dismal part of Queen St when that building was there. Glad it is gone.

[someone123]

A lot of those old photos are pretty interesting in retrospect.

- It's not true that there was zero construction downtown for a long period of time. Garrison Watch, shown in one of the first photos, was built around 2000. It was somewhat controversial since it replaced an old (Irving?) gas station. The Garden Crest apartments/condos were another big project.

- The building that now houses Attica Furnishings on Barrington Street was at one time abandoned. The picture above shows the renovation. After the renovation was done a furniture store called UpCountry moved in. Back during this period people talked about the impending restoration of the NFB Building. Ten years or so later, it is still in the same state it was back then. There's been lots of progress, but the fact that the ugly facade remains is one of the bigger disappointments.

- Like terrynorthend mentioned there's been an impressive amount of construction north of the Commons. I would not have expected that ten years ago. Similarly I would not have expected the positive changes that have happened around Gottingen Street.

- It's easy to get nostalgic about buildings like the apartments at Hollis and Morris but the new building looks a thousand times better. I think part of the fear of new buildings in Halifax exists because a lot of new construction used to be poorly designed and bland, to the point where it was often worse than what it replaced.

- It's funny to see how old the cars look. I was 16 or so when I took a bunch of these pictures; I'm just getting old enough to really distinctly remember a significantly different time period from the present.

[someone123]

Another random comment: I like the facade of the Acadian Recorder Building. Hopefully one day the glass blocks will be replaced with something more consistent with the rest of the facade.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y0s8ZbpK8V0/S-n50hPTJeI/AAAAAAAAAG0/i_d71ANztGs/s1600/House+Style+002.jpg
Source (http://urbanhalifaxblog.blogspot.ca/2010/05/province-house-and-area.html)

[Keith P.]

A lot of those old photos are pretty interesting in retrospect.

- It's not true that there was zero construction downtown for a long period of time. Garrison Watch, shown in one of the first photos, was built around 2000. It was somewhat controversial since it replaced an old (Irving?) gas station. The Garden Crest apartments/condos were another big project.

Both projects were controversial for similar reasons. The usual suspects wanted to retain the original structures on those sites. The gas station was a faux-Victorian cottage style that Irving built in the 30's, while the original Garden Crest was a wooden firetrap noted for its verandahs.

- The building that now houses Attica Furnishings on Barrington Street was at one time abandoned. The picture above shows the renovation. After the renovation was done a furniture store called UpCountry moved in. Back during this period people talked about the impending restoration of the NFB Building. Ten years or so later, it is still in the same state it was back then. There's been lots of progress, but the fact that the ugly facade remains is one of the bigger disappointments.

UpCountry was a spectacular crash-and-burn, with overpriced, low quality modern furniture. It was hugely disappointing. As for the NFB, it is clear that the eyesore should have been taken down following the fire. If it had, that block would have been improved significantly.

- Like terrynorthend mentioned there's been an impressive amount of construction north of the Commons. I would not have expected that ten years ago. Similarly I would not have expected the positive changes that have happened around Gottingen Street.

Gottingen is still extremely sketchy. I would say the jury is still out on any improvement there.

- It's funny to see how old the cars look. I was 16 or so when I took a bunch of these pictures; I'm just getting old enough to really distinctly remember a significantly different time period from the present.

Even I was struck by some of the vehicles in those shots - there was both an early '70s Chevy pickup and an MGB of the same era I saw.

[Dmajackson]

Gottingen is still extremely sketchy. I would say the jury is still out on any improvement there.

Gottingen isn't sketchy anymore. I walked it in the late-hours a lot this summer and I found it safer than the Commons and the Bell-South Park stretch. The high number of people make it very safe especially in the commercial section.

As for urban development on the Peninsula over the last decade or so I would say the most impressive is Gladstone Ridge. That renewal turned a former blight on the neighbourhood into its showcase area full of activity, beauty and mixed uses and incomes.

[Keith P.]

Gottingen isn't sketchy anymore. I walked it in the late-hours a lot this summer and I found it safer than the Commons and the Bell-South Park stretch. The high number of people make it very safe especially in the commercial section.

The only people on Gottingen at that time of night are the drug dealers, their collectors/enforcers/runners, and their customers.

[haligonia]

The only people on Gottingen at that time of night are the drug dealers, their collectors/enforcers/runners, and their customers.

False. There's a pretty decent amount of night time activity thanks to Menz, The Company House, Bus Stop Theatre, etc.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Both projects were controversial for similar reasons. The usual suspects wanted to retain the original structures on those sites. The gas station was a faux-Victorian cottage style that Irving built in the 30's, while the original Garden Crest was a wooden firetrap noted for its verandahs.

From the perspective of a car enthusiast, I think the Irving station was a real loss, especially for what was built in its place. However, I don't live under a rock and realize that it was a valuable piece of land that had more earning potential than a '30s-era service station.

Fortunately a similar style station still exists in Grand Pre, that appears to be viable for now, at least:

http://goo.gl/maps/R0rA7

[beyeas]

From the perspective of a car enthusiast, I think the Irving station was a real loss, especially for what was built in its place. However, I don't live under a rock and realize that it was a valuable piece of land that had more earning potential than a '30s-era service station.

Fortunately a similar style station still exists in Grand Pre, that appears to be viable for now, at least:

http://goo.gl/maps/R0rA7

When I lived in Albuquerque there was an old art deco service station along the section of Route 66 that ran through Nob Hill. They actually converted it to a pub, and the old garage doors were redone such that they open up in the summer. Not bad beer too!

http://goo.gl/maps/5kte5

[OldDartmouthMark]

When I lived in Albuquerque there was an old art deco service station along the section of Route 66 that ran through Nob Hill. They actually converted it to a pub, and the old garage doors were redone such that they open up in the summer. Not bad beer too!

http://goo.gl/maps/5kte5

That's very cool! :tup:

Not that's what they should have done with that old Irving station... sipping on a cool one in the summer while surrounded with vintage gas station stuff and taking in the view of the Citadel... :D

:cheers:

[Hali87]

Gottingen isn't sketchy anymore. I walked it in the late-hours a lot this summer and I found it safer than the Commons and the Bell-South Park stretch. The high number of people make it very safe especially in the commercial section.

I have to disagree. I would feel safer walking down Gottingen at night than across the middle of the Commons, but there is definitely still a lot of (violent) crime and open hard-drug use in the area. Maybe it's not as bad as it was in the 80s and 90s (this was before I really paid much attention to areas outside my own immediate neighbourhood) - I've heard it was referred to as "crack alley" and was essentially our very own version of Vancouver's DTES. It may not be the DTES now, but it's arguably still "like" that area in many ways. To put things in perspective, last fall my apartment on Brunswick Street (2 blocks from the old Marquee) was broken into by armed robbers, sometime in the early evening, and this was one of many similar incidents that happened within a ~5 block radius that month. Also, at any given time I could hear/see at least 2 people smoking crack from my apartment, and I lived on the nice part of Brunswick. I've had strangers approach me on the street to ask if I had any cocaine. There have been times that I have gone as far as dialling "9-1-" on my phone, because people (adults) were screaming at/chasing each other in the streets and it was impossible to know when or how things were going to end. Gottingen might be picking up commercially, and thus has more people around at any given time, but since in practice it has become a haven for the marginalized, it can be a bit of a powder keg whenever something goes wrong. I would say that the combination of services/establishments along Gottingen between Cogswell and Uniacke was one contributing factor in the death of Raymond Taavel, for example.

[Drybrain]

Gottingen can be quite sketchy, especially later at night, when it's largely depopulated. But it's nothing like the sketchiness of Vancouver's DTES--I don't think any place in Canada can match that neighbourhood for a sense of legitimate urban danger.

[Hali87]

I would describe the DTES as the "archetype" of that kind of sketchiness, and while Gottingen doesn't have the same "critical mass" of drug abuse, homelessness, mental health issues, and crime, it does absolutely have the same kinds of problems as the DTES. The areas' 20th-century histories are also quite similar - E. Hastings was "the" commercial street in pre-1950s Vancouver inner city in much the same way that Gottingen was Halifax's main pre-1950s commercial street. Over the next several decades business moved out and poverty-related services (and crime) moved in.

[Waye Mason]

False. There's a pretty decent amount of night time activity thanks to Menz, The Company House, Bus Stop Theatre, etc.

Yep. People need to get out more. Marquee re-opening will be huge. Neighbourhood has changed tremendously for the better in the last 10 years.

[Keith P.]

I wouldn't go there after dark. Certainly the blocks north of Cornwallis are very bad.

[Drybrain]

I wouldn't go there after dark. Certainly the blocks north of Cornwallis are very bad.

Well, unless Halifax is immune to the gentrification pressures sweeping through every other city in the country, it'll get better. And sooner rather than later, I bet. Five years from now this'll be a different conversation, ten years and it'll be REALLY different.

[Keith P.]

Well, unless Halifax is immune to the gentrification pressures sweeping through every other city in the country, it'll get better. And sooner rather than later, I bet. Five years from now this'll be a different conversation, ten years and it'll be REALLY different.

Not until the projects are removed.

[Drybrain]

Not until the projects are removed.

Even with them, maybe. One only has to look at Toronto or NYC, where gentrification has essentially hemmed in housing projects. Bigger cities, but the same principal. (One could also look at the so-far successful public-private rebuild of Toronto's Regent Park to get a sense of how Uniacke could be improved to be opened up to the surrounding community, while still providing the same amount of affordable housing.)

[someone123]

Actually in a lot of cities, Toronto and NYC included, the older housing projects have been demolished or rebuilt in a dramatically different way. Halifax is, as is often the case, clueless and behind the times.

I don't really believe that Gottingen is like the DTES in Vancouver, nor is it very accurate to say that Gottingen was ever the primary retail street in Halifax. Gottingen used to have larger, more successful businesses, but it was never more developed than Barrington. Gottingen's buildings are comparatively modest, whereas the Downtown Eastside neighbourhood and Hastings have Vancouver's grandest buildings from around 1910.

Another big difference is that violent crime rates are much worse around Gottingen, while property crime is worse around the DTES. The root social problems in the two neighbourhoods are not the same. The DTES is a magnet for people with addiction and mental health problems, while Gottingen has been harmed mostly by urban renewal and housing projects. In some ways Gottingen is worse off, but I think it would actually be easier and cheaper to fix, even when you take Halifax's smaller scale into account. The biggest hurdle unfortunately is political; public debate about the North End is stuck in 1970, and decisions there are made based on optics more than anything else.

[resetcbu1]

Not until the projects are removed.

Agreed 100% .... as long as housing projects exist we will have pockets of saturated crime and poverty. Housing projects are one of the worst 20th century social programs ever implemented, as all they do is create a perpetual stigma of crime and poverty and everything else related to the ghetto, where people grow up thinking that this is normal.

It would make much more sense to build new developments with affordable housing or subsidized housing with in them where these people can remain anonymous, their children would grow up in a normal environment not being taught by the older thugs........ And by having the unfortunate underprivileged spread out amongst the neighborhoods we wouldn't have pockets of concentrated poverty and thus wouldn't really have bad neighborhoods like mulgrave park, Uniacke square, jellybean square etc... IMO

[teddifax]

Very well said!!!

[Hali87]

The DTES is a magnet for people with addiction and mental health problems,

In terms of the Halifax region though (and probably the Maritimes as a whole to some degree) Gottingen is exactly that. That's not its most obvious defining feature, but I would be very surprised if addiction or mental health problems are more prevalent in any other part of HRM. One of the root causes of this (or maybe even the singular root cause) is the legacy of poorly thought out urban renewal projects, which put the street at a sudden commercial disadvantage, by, among other things, levelling half the buildings in the neighbourhood to create parking lots. The concentration of homeless shelters and related services, plus the relative ease of finding and using hard drugs (or, from a dealer's perspective, the relative ease of finding customers) is what makes the area a magnet for the poor, homeless, addicted, mentally ill, and criminal. As local agencies adapt to these realities and things like the needle exchange and the methadone clinic emerge, the "magnetism" is further reinforced. I would imagine that the "general mood" of living in a place like Uniacke Square also contributes significantly to rates of addiction, mental illness and crime. I guess what I meant is that the area serves many of the same purposes as the DTES.

(How) does Vancouver address public/affordable housing?

I suppose I should add the (hopefully obvious) disclaimer that I'm not saying that everyone in that part of the city is poor, homeless, addicted, mentally ill, or criminal, far from it. Just, some are. And more than in other places.

[Hali87]

It would make much more sense to build new developments with affordable housing or subsidized housing with in them where these people can remain anonymous, their children would grow up in a normal environment not being taught by the older thugs........ And by having the unfortunate underprivileged spread out amongst the neighborhoods we wouldn't have pockets of concentrated poverty and thus wouldn't really have bad neighborhoods like mulgrave park, Uniacke square, jellybean square etc... IMO

I agree with this 100%. I'm not convinced that the affordable housing policies in HRM by Design will accomplish this without some tweaking though. See the Sister Sites for a case study...