Budweiser Gardens? WTF?

[manny_santos]

The John Labatt Centre isn't even 10 years old, and the powers that be are rebranding it already??

The John Labatt Centre, or JLC, has become a well-known brand in London and even Southern Ontario. Why the sudden need to change the name? What damage was the JLC name doing? How many millions of dollars per year is this going to make Labatt? Zero?

From my standpoint with my marketing background, I think it's a really stupid move, a waste of time, and a waste of money to re-brand what has only recently become a well-known facility. It seems like re-branding is some sort of corporate fad. Look at Rogers Centre, or more locally, The New PL...er, A-Channel...er, what's it called this month?

I've worked with some junior marketing consultants, and for some reason they seem to have an obsession with re-branding everything they can get their hands on, just because it's a fun activity. It seems to be an easy solution to marketing issues that are usually a lot more complex than a brand name. I almost guarantee the JLC rebranding was invented by a 20-year-old in another city who has never been to London.

However, I'd like to hear from our resident marketing expert, MolsonExport. (On a side note, will he be rebranding his SSP handle to a brand of beer produced in London? :cool:)

[Snark]

The John Labatt Centre, or JLC, has become a well-known brand in London and even Southern Ontario. Why the sudden need to change the name?

Because the current name is not pushing a specific corporate product, nor a part of any specific marketing strategy the company is pursuing. I'm sure that they consider the lack of a specific product name in the current title makes it an underutilized asset from a marketing standpoint. And here is the key issue in regard to getting their brand of choice in the facility name: The 2013 World Figure Skating Championships and its 150 million worldwide viewers. One can imagine how many thousands of times and in how many languages the word Budweiser will be uttered on worldwide television during the week-long duration of the broadcast of the event. And for the parent company of Labatts, Anheuser-Busch InBev N.V., Bud is a brand of theirs that they market all over the world, including China. Outside of Canada and some regional markets in the U.S., almost no one has ever heard of Labatts.

From my standpoint with my marketing background, I think it's a really stupid move, a waste of time, and a waste of money to re-brand what has only recently become a well-known facility

Agreed that the name recognition has been huge for not only the facility, but the city as well. After the figure skating championships are over, the name change to a bland and very unexceptional product will hurt the image of the facility and the city and cause confusion to the event-going public. After all, the traditional image of the product's market demographic is primarily one of working-class mid-western Americans. Budweiser Gardens sounds like a place that sweaty, dirty steelworkers from Gary Indiana go to for cheap cold beer after a hard day in the coke mills prior to heading home and beating their wives. This is not the image that London needs. Anheuser-Busch InBev N.V. is not however going to be concerned about the current "JLC" local name recognition value for the facility, or the city - as it is headquartered 6,000 km's away. Their concern is about their brand of choice being up on yet another lighting standard that will receive global attention for a week.

I almost guarantee the JLC rebranding was invented by a 20-year-old in another city who has never been to London.

Like I said, they are 6,000 km's away. I'll go one further and guess that the marketing people at Anheuser-Busch InBev that pushed this had never even heard of John Labatt, London, or for that matter Ontario until the WFSC was coming to London. The 2 million or so people that the JLC, er... Budweiser Gardens serves is an insignificant beer market to them. I suspect that there is simply a broader strategy that has them pushing Bud real hard in several key global markets (especially Asia), and the diktat from head office to their regional offices (such as Labatts in Toronto) is to simply get a Bud label attached to anything that they can get their hands on that will support that strategy.

I'm sure that if their strategy was to get different one of their brands marketed hard, the arena would be named after that brand... perhaps their Ukrainian Chernigivske beer brand for example. The JLC could then be renamed as the "Chernigivske People's Hall For Glorious Sport Competition And Cultural Exposition"

There is an important lesson in this: things that people consider part of their community (such as in this case London's proud association with the Labatt heritage) have in fact been sold to powerful corporations who frequently have no reciprocal feelings towards that community. A company headquartered out of Holland owns all things Labatt, and on their whim that name could all be ended tomorrow if that's what they wanted.

There is nothing good in this re-branding for London or the facility. It will in fact in the long term cause confusion amongst the event-going public, likely hurting sales and attendance - especially from out of town visitors. The image of the product in this part of the world is one of American mediocrity - not helping the image of the facility or city.

This is about a giant multi-national corporation purchasing week-long global exposure for one of their key brands.

[MolsonExport]

^I totally concur. Seems almost that Labatt cares not one wit for marketing in the city that was its birthplace. Go to say, the Grad Club at UWO and see what is heavily marketed: Sleeman beers, Alexander Keith, Big Rock, Wellington, etc. Labatt? Nowhere to be seen.
Budweiser, with their ugly logo and terrible product, will only cheapen the image of the JLC. I hope that the community will rally against the proposal. Whatever sponsorship money would come in, it is not worth it to the image of the facility.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/06/23/19912911-lfp.html

I almost retched reading this utter tripe. Lowest-common denominator "beer" is simply what Budweiser is.

Joe, you disappoint me (again). Selling your soul for a few bucks from a lousy beer brand.

[isaidso]

They're systematically destroying the Labatt brand and supplanting it with their own brands. That used to be the #1 beer brand in Canada and now look at it. They've done little to maintain the Labatt brand let alone introduce the brand globally. Being part of Inbev has been a disaster for the Labatt brand. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years they discontinue the Labatt brand completely and have the audacity to argue that no one was interested in it any more.

[go_leafs_go02]

From what I remember, they don't even serve Labatt Blue at Knights games anymore. It's all Budweiser and Bud Light (at least in draught)

I can't even think of a single restaurant/pub or whatever that has Labatt on tap. Really - I can't.

While I understand the affinity to the JLC namesake, I can see wanting to market the building from a more worldwide name. Even in BC, Labatt is non-existent. Budweiser - completely different story.

I've had one bottle of Labatt Blue once - and I can't say it was anything to write home about.

[MolsonExport]

Bud is the number one beer in Canada. It usually tops (or ties with coor light) on the Beer Store's top 10 list.

The brew is truly vile. Who the hell drinks it, and why? It is beyond bad beer.

Labatt Blue is nothing special but it tastes like champagne next to the steer piss that is Bud. King of rears.

What the hell is wrong with the youth of Canada? We have very good beer in this country, and if you want mediocrity, drink Labatt Blue or Molson Canadian, but c'mon, don't drink the yank horse piss.

The Americanization of Canadian cultural institutions continues unabated. Whoring Canadian culture for the almighty dollar. Go to hell, InBev.


In other news, Mayor Joe Fontana has been openly musing about name-rights to Victoria and Harris Parks downtown. "Heck, if calling it Coors Light Commons instead of Victoria Park means half a million dollars in revenues for city programs, I am all for it and so too should John Q. Taxpayer," Fontana exclaimed (www.lfp.com/news/sellingmygrandmotherforabuck.html). What else could be renamed? How about Guy Lombardo bridge (Pepsi bridge), London International Airport (Cisco Aerodrome), and the University of Western Ontario (Western U...er wait, that was already done)? "You know, I'd even be open to changing my own name from Joe Fontana to Joe Fanta or maybe Joe Camel for a couple of bucks," Fontana joked. "After all, I still smoke"

[manny_santos]

From what I remember, they don't even serve Labatt Blue at Knights games anymore. It's all Budweiser and Bud Light (at least in draught)

I can't even think of a single restaurant/pub or whatever that has Labatt on tap. Really - I can't.

While I understand the affinity to the JLC namesake, I can see wanting to market the building from a more worldwide name. Even in BC, Labatt is non-existent. Budweiser - completely different story.

I've had one bottle of Labatt Blue once - and I can't say it was anything to write home about.

Believe it or not, Labatt 50 is served on tap at the Ceeps. It's the only bar I've ever seen that offers 50 on tap.

Among the young people I know in London, the most popular beers are Alexander Keiths, Rickard's Red and White, Molson Export, Budweiser, Bud Light, Corona, Pabst Blue Ribbon, and James Ready. I know one person who also likes Foster's. Almost nobody I know drinks Coors Light, Laker, Lakeport, Blue, or Canadian. Blue and Canadian are the beers my father drinks, although he drinks quite a few others ranging from Dos Equis to Sleeman.

Also, the bars around London which have cheap beer nights have "$2 Coronas" or "$10 Sleeman pitchers", it's never "$2 Blue".

[Simpseatles]

Ahh, yet another rebranding. I'm always going to call the Willis Tower The Sears Tower, the Rogers Centre the Skydome, Western University UWO, and Budweiser Gardens the JLC.

A name change like this feels cheap, and a slap in the face to the residents of London. I had heard that the naming rights were going to be available and I accepted that soon it would probably be called "3M Place" or "The Telus Centre" perhaps. I'd still prefer the JLC name, but I never expected the arena (one of the best in Canada) would simply be named after some crappy American Beer! Very disapointing.:(

[Pimpmasterdac]

Sign of the times. Gone are the days of Maple Leaf Gardens, Skydome, London Gardens adorning sporting facilities. In are the days of corporate christening according to the winds of popular goods & services. No grand insult to London, just modern business & marketing!

IMO rather it stay JLC but that's not gonna happen. The best council could hope for is a minor alteration like London Budweiser Garden (LBG) or London Budweiser Centre (LBC). Regardless the name's getting changed when council rubber stamps this.

Cause in the end it's always about the money, all of the time!

[manny_santos]

Sign of the times. Gone are the days of Maple Leaf Gardens, Skydome, London Gardens adorning sporting facilities. In are the days of corporate christening according to the winds of popular goods & services. No grand insult to London, just modern business & marketing!

IMO rather it stay JLC but that's not gonna happen. The best council could hope for is a minor alteration like London Budweiser Garden (LBG) or London Budweiser Centre (LBC). Regardless the name's getting changed when council rubber stamps this.

Cause in the end it's always about the money, all of the time!

I know if I were on Council, I'd be voting against it. This will bring no benefit to London whatsoever; it will bring benefit only to the Budweiser brand.

[MolsonExport]

I am voting with my dollars and feet. You won't find me patronizing anything under the Budweiser brand. Utterly without class.

[flar]

Stupid, just stupid.

I'm also quite shocked/disappointed that my alma mater is now called Western University. WTF?

[haljackey]

I still call the Rogers Centre the Skydome, and I will call Budwiser Gardens the JLC.

The original name sticks.

[MolsonExport]

^but the new one just sucks. Can you imagine the elegant script of the John Labatt Centre being replaced by the garish Buttwisser brand and logo?

[haljackey]

^but the new one just sucks. Can you imagine the elegant script of the John Labatt Centre being replaced by the garish Buttwisser brand and logo?

FM96 gets it right

http://i.imgur.com/k847i.jpg



It's official. London City council voted 12-3 and this October John Labatt Centre will become Budweiser Gardens.

[MolsonExport]

Who voted in favor? 12 to fucking 3. Sell their grandmothers for a buck. How low can you go? JLC is first and foremost a HOCKEY arena. Hockey is as Canadian a thing there is. Labatt is local, and for more than a century, a community pioneer and philanthropist family. Most of all, Buttwisser sucks donkey balls (besides, there are no gardens, only those giant concrete balls out front). Vile brew. King of rears.

This Bud’s worth $6.4 million for you
By CHIP MARTIN The London Free Press
Last Updated: June 27, 2012 6:07am
London Free Press [soon to be rebranded the Coors Light Chronicle)

The John Labatt Centre is dead; long live the king of beers.

A $6.4-million, 10-year deal for naming rights will see the decade-old centre become Budweiser Gardens in October.

City council voted 12-3 Tuesday in favour of the name change.

Councillors Joni Baechler, Paul Hubert and Dale Henderson opposed the new name.

Coun. Nancy Branscombe, who said “Budweiser Gardens sounds like a beer tent to me,” said she meant to vote against the deal, but pushed the wrong voting button.

Several members of council said they had heard from Londoners upset the name of a well-respected community pioneer will come off the downtown venue and be replaced with the name of an American beer.

“(Budweiser Gardens) is going to resonate for us both nationally and internationally,” Mayor Joe Fontana predicted, although he admitted a sentimental attachment to the existing name.
[...]More here: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/06/26/19923216.html

Say it ain't so, Joe. Please, say it ain't so. It's not what I want to hear... (old Murray Head song)

[MolsonExport]

Coun. Nancy Branscombe, who said “Budweiser Gardens sounds like a beer tent to me,” said she meant to vote against the deal, but pushed the wrong voting button.



How useless can you be?

[MolsonExport]

Council voted 12-3 in support of the change, with Joni Baechler, Paul Hubert and Dale Henderson voting against the new name. Nancy Branscombe said afterwards she pressed the wrong button and meant to vote against the change as well.

Labatt's 10 year lease expires this October and had first right of refusal on the new lease. Now that council has approved the change, the new lease will begin this fall. The previous lease was worth $5 million, the version is worth $6.4 million, a 28% increase.
AM980

Lets break that down.
$1.4M extra over 10 years = $140,000 per year (about what one senior prof at UWO makes in a year) = $383.56/day.

This is assuming that Labatt (or some other sponsor) would not have paid a bit more for renewing (or gaining rights), which is totally dubious (given that it was signed more than 10 years ago).

Sad, sad day for London. I am so embarrassed.

[haljackey]

Call me a little extreme, but I think alcohol products should be subject to similar packaging and labels as tobacco products.

Why? Because they cause troublesome social, economic and health problems. It would harm many alcohol-related businesses, but it may be for the best. Everything in moderation.

Naming the JLC Budweiser Gardens pretty much means there are no problems with beer and alcohol in our society. Yes I know the old name was named Labatt too, but at least that was after a person, not after a specific beer/brand.


Coun. Nancy Branscombe, who said “Budweiser Gardens sounds like a beer tent to me,” said she meant to vote against the deal, but pushed the wrong voting button.

Umm... Can't she just did that by accident and have her vote changed? Imagine if that mistake happened during a serious issue with a much close vote.

[manny_santos]

Call me a little extreme, but I think alcohol products should be subject to similar packaging and labels as tobacco products.

Why? Because they cause troublesome social, economic and health problems. It would harm many alcohol-related businesses, but it may be for the best. Everything in moderation.

I vote for the Facebook Centre...wait, Facebook is addictive and takes people away from face-to-face communication.

How about Toyota Gardens...wait, cars cause pollution and accidents.

Kidding aside, at least the JLC wasn't originally called Caterpillar Centre...I'm sure City Council (and most Londoners) would've been glad to change that to Budweiser Gardens.

[MolsonExport]

Honestly, I would have preferred Centretown Pawnbrokers Palladium

[GreatTallNorth2]

I think the JLC was the perfect name for the arena, but honestly the outrage for the name change shows how small minded London is. I don't like the new name either, but this is all about business. London has much bigger problems than to focus on this.

[flar]

but honestly the outrage for the name change shows how small minded London is. I don't like the new name either, but this is all about business.

It is those who think life is all about business who are small minded.

[flar]

Coun. Nancy Branscombe, who said “Budweiser Gardens sounds like a beer tent to me,” said she meant to vote against the deal, but pushed the wrong voting button.

Very clever, she found a way to have her cake and eat it too. I hope other politicians don't catch on to this.

[MTLskyline]

I can't help but think of that episode of the Simpsons when they go to Duff Gardens amusement park.

[GreatTallNorth2]

It is those who think life is all about business who are small minded.

I'm not sure how you gather that all I care about is business. In fact, if you read much of what I write, you would find that is not the case at all. But, it's only a bloody name on a building. It's not that big of a deal!

London is building 1970's style crap concrete buildings everywhere, has a terrible transportation system, is losing jobs like a sieve and has a mess of urban sprawl. We've got much bigger fish to fry than the name on our arena.

[flar]

That was directed at the people who voted for this change and their ilk, not you personally.

[harls]

What the hell is wrong with the youth of Canada? We have very good beer in this country, and if you want mediocrity, drink Labatt Blue or Molson Canadian, but c'mon, don't drink the yank horse piss.

It's all about the money, and all about the brand perception. Hey Bud is just as cheap as Blue, but they have those fuckin cheerleaders and that awesome Bud Camp near the airport in Mississauga? What do I care.. I'm 19 and I'll be drunk.. who cares where this camp is..

Wha.. who brews Bud in Canada? bah who cares. ALCOHOL.

[harls]

i can't help but think of that episode of the simpsons when they go to duff gardens amusement park.

I am the LIZARD QUEEN!

[Stevo26]

Bud is the number one beer in Canada. It usually tops (or ties with coor light) on the Beer Store's top 10 list.

The brew is truly vile. Who the hell drinks it, and why? It is beyond bad beer.

Labatt Blue is nothing special but it tastes like champagne next to the steer piss that is Bud. King of rears.

What the hell is wrong with the youth of Canada? We have very good beer in this country, and if you want mediocrity, drink Labatt Blue or Molson Canadian, but c'mon, don't drink the yank horse piss.

The Americanization of Canadian cultural institutions continues unabated. Whoring Canadian culture for the almighty dollar. Go to hell, InBev.


In other news, Mayor Joe Fontana has been openly musing about name-rights to Victoria and Harris Parks downtown. "Heck, if calling it Coors Light Commons instead of Victoria Park means half a million dollars in revenues for city programs, I am all for it and so too should John Q. Taxpayer," Fontana exclaimed (www.lfp.com/news/sellingmygrandmotherforabuck.html). What else could be renamed? How about Guy Lombardo bridge (Pepsi bridge), London International Airport (Cisco Aerodrome), and the University of Western Ontario (Western U...er wait, that was already done)? "You know, I'd even be open to changing my own name from Joe Fontana to Joe Fanta or maybe Joe Camel for a couple of bucks," Fontana joked. "After all, I still smoke"

WTF? was exactly the first thought that ran into my head when I read about the proposal to rename the JLC and call it Budweiser Gardens. The owners of the JLC have just gone and destroyed whatever goodwill they had developed from the John Labatt name.

I sense that the JLC isn't doing all that well, apart from the revenues brought in from Knights games, and the owners are looking for some fresh juice or 'buzz' to goose the revenues up a bit.

As to Budweiser beer, yes, it is 'horse piss'. When I was a young lad, I sampled a bottle of Bud and found it to be utter swill. But Bud is representative of the way our American cousins can sometimes be: flavourless, lacking in substance, and ultimately insipid.

I'm also mystified as to why my countrymen like such a crappy beer. I too, am disturbed by the increasing Americanization of Canadian culture. A couple of classic cases in point that reflect that Americanization can be found in the way a lot of Canadians under 30 seem to have adopted American accents and say 'zee' and instead of 'zed'. It really grates on my nerves.

But this is what happens when people refuse to develop a coherent identity for themselves. Go around the world, and you can readily identify a German or a Brit. But good luck identifying a Canadian, because everyone thinks we look and sound like Americans.

[manny_santos]

But this is what happens when people refuse to develop a coherent identity for themselves. Go around the world, and you can readily identify a German or a Brit. But good luck identifying a Canadian, because everyone thinks we look and sound like Americans.

You've got that right. Where I currently work, many people have mistaken me for an American.

[Wharn]

I'm not sure how you gather that all I care about is business. In fact, if you read much of what I write, you would find that is not the case at all. But, it's only a bloody name on a building. It's not that big of a deal!

London is building 1970's style crap concrete buildings everywhere, has a terrible transportation system, is losing jobs like a sieve and has a mess of urban sprawl. We've got much bigger fish to fry than the name on our arena.

This is sort of my attitude towards the whole thing. I think it's an utterly stupid marketing move, but it's not going to be my loss. Someone else will be jumping out of a window or hanging themselves in their closet over this inevitable failure. Perhaps council could put the same energy towards debating something like, oh, the Windermere Bridge.

Who voted in favor? 12 to fucking 3. Sell their grandmothers for a buck. How low can you go? JLC is first and foremost a HOCKEY arena. Hockey is as Canadian a thing there is. Labatt is local, and for more than a century, a community pioneer and philanthropist family.

They were also instrumental in getting the 402 re-routed, which royally screwed the entire city further down the line. They were obviously concerned with the welfare of others until they were affected personally. As an outsider to London, I can say I find the whole Labatt culture to be extremely overrated- the current company would move out of the city in a heartbeat if they could justify it.


As to Budweiser beer, yes, it is 'horse piss'. When I was a young lad, I sampled a bottle of Bud and found it to be utter swill. But Bud is representative of the way our American cousins can sometimes be: flavourless, lacking in substance, and ultimately insipid.

Funny, I get the same impression of them when I watch their TV shows or drive their cars. Anyone who has ever been forced to watch The Secret Life of the American Teenager or had to live with a Ford Taurus for any length of time will know what I'm talking about.

I vote for the Facebook Centre...wait, Facebook is addictive and takes people away from face-to-face communication.

How about Toyota Gardens...wait, cars cause pollution and accidents.

Kidding aside, at least the JLC wasn't originally called Caterpillar Centre...I'm sure City Council (and most Londoners) would've been glad to change that to Budweiser Gardens.

Caterpillar Gardens. Or the Ford Centre (alt. Crown Victoria Arena). Any one would be suitable for a hockey arena in this region :D

[MolsonExport]

News Local Crews replace John Labatt Centre sign with new Bud Gardens moniker
http://www.lfpress.com/2012/09/17/crews-replace-john-labatt-centre-sign-with-new-bud-gardens-moniker

Barf
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297313106516_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=650x&stmp=1347899444953
canoe

LFP poll:
What do you think of the arena's name change?
Thursday, September 20, 2012 (as of 850am)

Vote or view results

15% 232 votes I'm fine with it
63% 977 votes I hate it
22% 350 votes Who cares?

Absolutely not scientific, but safe to say, by and large people hate it.

[haljackey]

Absolutely not scientific, but safe to say, by and large people hate it.



It doesn't matter. They want to brand the arena with a name that will be known the world over for the World Figure Skating Championships next year. John Labatt doesn't primarily reference to a brand, and even if it did many people around the world may not know what it is.

Marketing, that's what this all comes down to.

[LondnPlanr]

It doesn't matter. They want to brand the arena with a name that will be known the world over for the World Figure Skating Championships next year. John Labatt doesn't primarily reference to a brand, and even if it did many people around the world may not know what it is.

Marketing, that's what this all comes down to.

Bingo.

I don't understand why people are getting so upset about this. It's going to be referred to as the 'JLC' for years to come. Just ask Rogers Centre/SkyDome...

I didn't see anyone else ponying up more money to name it something else. So people wanted the City to step in and name it something more 'local' friendly by using taxpayer dollars? Or how about a company from out of town comes in, and throws their money at the rink, and then it's the 'RIM Arena' or 'ArcelorMittal Gardens'. Think of the arena in Boston, which is named 'TD Gardens' - oh yes, the arena is Boston actually has another city's NAME in it. It could be much, much, much, much worse.

Regardless of how the beer is viewed by beer snobs and local complainers, Budweiser is brewed here in London by Labatt's Brewery, and it is a VITAL brand to keeping the brewery running full steam ahead.

Let it go, already, and just call it the 'JLC'. Everyone will know what you're talking about!

[MolsonExport]

Of course it comes down to marketing. This is patently obvious to me, a marketing professor. That does not mean I need to rejoice in the choice of brand (an American label of piss-poor beer), nor in the increasing generic urban fabric of London. I felt the same way when the Molson centre in Montreal (my hometown) was rechristened the Bell centre (despite both being MTL-based firms, I have always loathed Bell-the world leader in terrible customer service). Same thing when the (legendary) Montreal Forum was gutted, and renamed the Pepsi Forum (as if that is going to make me drink more pepsi). If most locals dislike the rebranding (here's looking at you "Western University"), it suggests the potential for poorly conceived marketing. The empirical literature on rebranding is quite clear: most efforts fail to achieve stated objectives. In addition, the "mere exposure effect" (see psychology and marketing literature) is extremely overestimated, especially given the excessive marketing clutter of contemporary times. I actually conduct research on this.

And let us not forget, it is the city of London that is claiming benefits, which my calculations show on the previous page, are extraodinarily mediocre at best. In exchange for selling your soul.

See Neil Young (this note's for you).

[flar]

Of course it's marketing. Everyone knows that. I just don't give a shit about marketing and lament that fact that marketing has taken over practically everything in our lives.

EDIT: looks like we think alike, ME

[LondnPlanr]

...(an American label of piss-poor beer)...

I'd rather drink a Bud/Bud Light than any of the other big brands, that's for sure. I don't think it's 'piss-poor' at all, but I rather like it.

Anyway, I don't see what that has to do with anything. Budweiser/InBev/Labatt put up the money, used their naming rights privileges, and here we are. I could care less. I'll still be calling it the JLC for months as I get used to it.

[MolsonExport]

KSSvzCNBvlQ

[MolsonExport]

I'd rather drink a Bud/Bud Light than any of the other big brands, that's for sure. I don't think it's 'piss-poor' at all, but I rather like it.

Anyway, I don't see what that has to do with anything. Budweiser/InBev/Labatt put up the money, used their naming rights privileges, and here we are. I could care less. I'll still be calling it the JLC for months as I get used to it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. Some people like Nickelback, some people like Bach. There is Kool-aid for some and cognac for others.

[Honest Scientist]

Labatt/InBev whatever they are free to do this - but I think they missed the boat...

I think someone got concerned that everyone is calling it the JLC, which has *nothing* to do with their product. Calling it the "John Labatt Centre" refers to their whole product line and works, calling it "JLC" gives them nothing.

I though the "John Labbat Centre" was a brilliant choice, as it covered their brand line, and referred to a historical Londoner (and would immediately suggest the London connection to Labatt's origin to anyone hearing it)!

Bud? Bud who?

A better solution might have been the "Bud Bowl at the John Labatt Centre" or the "Blue Bowl at the John Labbat Centre" (hey, the seats are blue, and Blue tastes way better than Bud!), which would have retained the goodwill and added a brand.

Will always be the JLC to me!

[MolsonExport]

now it is just the BG.

[manny_santos]

now it is just the BG.

Could have been worse - the BS, or the BM.

[Mister F]

Regardless of how the beer is viewed by beer snobs and local complainers, Budweiser is brewed here in London by Labatt's Brewery, and it is a VITAL brand to keeping the brewery running full steam ahead.
The only reason the Bud brand is vital is because the parent company made it that way. They decided to kill the Labatt name and replace it with Budweiser. And it worked. People are sheep - they drink what the breweries tell them to drink.

[MolsonExport]

The only reason the Bud brand is vital is because the parent company made it that way. They decided to kill the Labatt name and replace it with Budweiser. And it worked. People are sheep - they drink what the breweries tell them to drink.

this.

as described in a marketing case for 2nd year students
Both Labatt Blue and Molson Canadian, the one time brand leaders in Canada have been replaced at the top by Budweiser and Coors Light. Labatt markets Budweiser in Canada and Molson markets Coors Light.
The predicament that Blue and Canadian are in is partially related to company ownership. InBev, a Belgian‐based company owns Labatt and has decided to focus on brands that it can extend to International markets. Blue is not in that mix. Budweiser now gets much more marketing support in Canada than it used to. Molson recently merged with Coors, a U.S.‐based company, and ever since, the Coors Light brand has been the priority.
busandadmin.uwinnipeg.ca/melnyk-j/Advertising/LabattBlue.pdf

[haljackey]

Coors Light is among the worst beers I have ever tasted.
-Crazy fact: you can't even get regular Coors beer here in Canada. I once tried it when I was in the US out of curiosity and it had just slightly more taste than Coors Light. (I tolerate Budweiser but would prefer to have something else.)

Glad the JLC won't be called Coors Arena or something.

And yes there's no shame calling it the JLC even now, since that was the official name of the structure when it was built. The same goes for places like the SkyDome (Rogers Centre), Rockefeller Center (GE Building) and the Sears Tower (Willis Tower).

[K85]

Coors Light when it's super cold is actually quite tasty to me :) As it warms up though, not a fan. I like Bud too.

It's like all the beers people here hate I dig. Guinness = barf.

[haljackey]

Guinness = a meal for me.

If I go to a bar hungry, I order a Guinness. That way you save money... don't have to order bar food!

I wish the JLC/BGZ had more of a beer selection.

[MolsonExport]

There is a reason why they promote Coors Light, Bud, etc to be served cold as ice. Because it tastes like horsepiss otherwise. You really can't taste much the beer is ice cold. Guinness is actually supposted to be served at room temperature.

Guinness is an acquired taste. Personally, I love it. But it is far from being my everyday beer (hello Belgian, German, Czech beer).

[haljackey]

And then there are those gimmicky 'blue cold' cans which turn colour when they're cold enough to drink.

I read that most beer is best enjoyed at 7 degrees, and that's the temperature inside the Beer Store. Most fridges are 4 degrees which means you should actually wait a bit after you take a brew out of the fridge before you drink it.

Now bars have 'super cold' draught beer lines which store kegs of Coors Light and Canadian at 0-1 degrees, and they usually pour it into a glass that's full of frost.

Getting back on topic, there was a bar in the JLC that had a couple other beers on tap other than the Blue and Bud sold at the concession stands. I remember it having Kieth's and Rolling Rock among some others... wonder if that will change as part of the re-branding.

[manny_santos]

There is a reason why they promote Coors Light, Bud, etc to be served cold as ice. Because it tastes like horsepiss otherwise. You really can't taste much the beer is ice cold. Guinness is actually supposted to be served at room temperature.

Guinness is an acquired taste. Personally, I love it. But it is far from being my everyday beer (hello Belgian, German, Czech beer).

I didn't touch a single mainstream beer this past weekend: I had some DAB, Holstein, Kilkenny, and Muskoka Cream Ale. Now those are good beers.

[haljackey]

If you can't handle a Guinness, Killkenny is a great choice. Did you know it is also made in the Guinness plant in Dublin?

I made it a true St. Patrick's day this year by drinking nothing but that Irish brew. "OH MAI GAWD, TEHY KELLED KENNY!"

[Symz]

:previous:

Boddingtons is a nice choice too.

[MolsonExport]

^you're darn tootin'!
http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/profile01/138/3a22165bf16c4b89bfdc4be78d634e79/p.jpg

Kilkenny, Boddingtons, Guinness, Harp, Smithwicks, Newcastle brown Ale, Tartan, Double Diamond, Speckled Hen, Innis & Gunn...


....Beck's, Staropramen, Pilsner Urquel, Steigel, Duvel, Chimay, DAB, Firstenburg, Warsteiner, Stella Artois, Mort Subite...

[haljackey]

While we're on the topic of beer you might be interested in this:

I've done a few blind beer taste tests, here's some results:

http://i.imgur.com/1O83p.png

I didn't know what the brews were until they were revealed at the end.

Beer tasting is nothing like wine tasting. You actually have to drink the beer, I think its to help measure smoothness. As a result, the more beers you taste, the drunker you get.
-That's probably why I gave PBR a high rating. A conflicted palette in my mouth probably welcomed a watery beer to cleanse it, thus the high rating. We do however have things like pretzels, peanuts and water between taste tests to help clear our palettes.

[K85]

And no Polish beers

[north 42]

Waterloo Dark is one of my favourite dark beers, I'm a big fan of Keith's Amber Ale also!

[Wharn]

Is it weird if I hate pretty much all beers? Not to sounds like a hipster or anything, but pretty much the only things I like are the very lightest and very darkest. Overall I'm more of a wine & port person.


Beer tasting is nothing like wine tasting. You actually have to drink the beer, I think its to help measure smoothness. As a result, the more beers you taste, the drunker you get.

I went with a girl I know to a wine tasting last year. All the middle-aged folk there were spitting the stuff out (heresy, I say), but everyone in the sub-25 crowd was gulping it down. It's actually better that way, since you pick up on some of the wine's more delicate aftertastes (peppercorn, for example), overall makes for a better experience. Mind you, the two of us were hopelessly drunk after it was all over. Time well spent :D

[north 42]

I love beer and wine as well, we often hit the wineries around here for tastings, but I have never spit out a tasting. We're heading out to Niagara region next weekend to hit up some of the wineries in that area. I love doing these weekend jaunts.

[ForestryW]

While we're on the topic of beer you might be interested in this:

I've done a few blind beer taste tests, here's some results:

I didn't know what the brews were until they were revealed at the end.

Beer tasting is nothing like wine tasting. You actually have to drink the beer, I think its to help measure smoothness. As a result, the more beers you taste, the drunker you get.
-That's probably why I gave PBR a high rating. A conflicted palette in my mouth probably welcomed a watery beer to cleanse it, thus the high rating. We do however have things like pretzels, peanuts and water between taste tests to help clear our palettes.

Where'd you do this? I'm just curious, I'd love to try it as well.

Some of my favourite beers are local Ontario craft beers. I'd say the best are:
-Muskoka Brewery Mad Tom IPA
-Great Lakes Brewery Devil's Pale Ale.

Railway City in St. Thomas is pretty decent and it's London's local craft brewery!

[MolsonExport]

Excellent local (St. Thomas) Ale:
http://railwaycitybrewing.com/index_files/image1248.jpg
railwaycitybrewing.com

[haljackey]

Where'd you do this? I'm just curious, I'd love to try it as well.

Some of my favourite beers are local Ontario craft beers. I'd say the best are:
-Muskoka Brewery Mad Tom IPA
-Great Lakes Brewery Devil's Pale Ale.

Railway City in St. Thomas is pretty decent and it's London's local craft brewery!

Just did it with some friends.

For example, go to the LCBO and buy say 24 singles of different beers. Then you split it with say 6 people (so 4 beers a person) with a person or two who doesn't drink (or DD) who prepares the brew behind the scenes. They pour a randomly selected beer into 6 cups and bring it out for you to taste. They indicate in on piece of paper what beer they poured for reference later.

You then drink the beer and give it a score /10 on a piece of paper and other comments if you want. Then you eat some peanuts/pretzels and drink some water to clear your palette to prepare for the next one. Repeat until they're all done.

When all the sampling is done the results are revealed by the person who prepared the beer. You then compare your scores to each brew and tally it up in a chart like I did on the previous page. You might be astonished about some beers you loved and others you hated. That's what happens when the label/branding isn't there.

One of my buddies is a huge fan of Stella and drank multiple beers saying "Oh THIS one is definitely Stella". Turns out he gave the beer that was Stella a 2/10 and beers he thought was Stella were brews like Lakeport which he gave like a 9/10. He now buys a lot of Lakeport because it turns out he likes it :P.

Anyways a bit off topic but its a fun exercise and can change what you think is beer you like and beer you hate.

-----

Dead Elephant Ale is a little strong for my taste, but I really like Iron Spike from Railway City.

[jammer139]

Looks like they are revisiting the plans from a few years ago to upgrade Budweiser Gardens. The back of the house limitations have been a long standing issue and a renovation was in the works to rebuild the west end of the building where there is a small parking lot now. This would add much needed new space for loading docks and reworked change rooms for both sports teams and shows.


https://london.ctvnews.ca/reinvestment-of-bud-gardens-being-looked-at-by-city-1.6316044

[MolsonExport]

I hope they rename it "John Labatt Centre" (I know this will never happen). Much better than Buttwisser Gardens (King of Rears) and their steer piss product.

[ssiguy]

I hope they fix the ugly Dundas Street frontage to allow a couple street facing shops. Right now it looks like a wall.

[Djeffery]

I hope they fix the ugly Dundas Street frontage to allow a couple street facing shops. Right now it looks like a wall.

They could so something to fix up the exterior but they can't convert the blank wall space at the west end of Dundas frontage into retail because of the use inside the building. Namely the Knights dressing room and the technical spaces to the west of that. As you move east where the windows are, that's arena concourse space so converting that to street front retail would take away from interior space during events.

[GreatTallNorth2]

If they are smart, they will try to add more seats. Ideally the arena would be closer to 12,000 if we ever hope to get larger events like the World Juniors. Kitchener Waterloo will be either expanding their arena or building a new larger one down the road (the council has already studied it). Also it would be great to see the entire block used, maybe incorporating commercial/retail and a hotel.

[Djeffery]

If they are doing construction on the west side, I would like to see them finish the upper bowl. I'm not sure if there is demand for more suites around that end as well but maybe the addition of a party deck under the upper bowl where the standing room area is now. I don't know what that adds for seats, maybe another 1000-1500. Those wouldn't really do much for concerts since those are back of the stage and usually not sold, but the extra sports capacity would be handy. I'm not sure there is a really feasible way to add more seats elsewhere that isn't going to cost huge dollars that might not be justifiable. I'm also unsure if we are missing out on any concerts that we would get with only a few thousand more seats. We do okay with big names now and those that don't come now won't come for 12000, we would need 17000.

Vic Cote from the city really tried to get this place built larger but the prevailing thought at the time was 9000 was pushing it and even the Knights were only asking for 6500. I know they said back then that cost wise, it wasn't just a linear per seat cost. That once you went past this 9000-ish range, the cost of the building would skyrocket. Benefit of hindsight but I bet 12-14k seats would have been an easy sell if anyone in power thought this place would take off like it did.

[GreatTallNorth2]

I would not see a point in investing much if you are not going to attract the bigger events. And if the city is going to be asked for another $50 million or whatever, I think that money could be spent on far better things that would attract people to the core - like a proper museum, aquarium, etc.

[Djeffery]

I mean, I would certainly be in favour of them expanding the seating on the west side if they are already rebuilding that end of the structure to expand the back of house, or at least looking into what it would cost to finish that upper deck in the course of doing that work. Those seats would certainly be used for most Knights games and any other large sporting events. And would help in the bids for future WJC (I have to think London has as good a chance in the not too distant future for that as we have had in the last 20 years), and other large sporting events (the Knights have to be thinking of when to bid on the Memorial Cup again). Plus that back of house will make the venue more attractive for future editions of the type of events we have already held, like award shows or world figure skating championships. Interesting that during the Brier, I didn't see the big tent in that west parking lot like I have seen for past events though.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Updated information about Bud Gardens so called expansion. They are asking for $33 million to add storage space to the arena. No thanks unless there is major seating added for bigger events.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/budweiser-gardens-makes-pitch-for-expansion-1.6403089

[jammer139]

I agree for that kind of money the renovation MUST include the completion of upper bowl seating on the west end of building. If it doesn't then it is a show stopper and a big no thanks.


Sadly they made the compromise with the original build not to go larger at around 14,000 seating with full bowl seating. They had the entire block as a footprint for the building to work with. Lessons learned as they would have sold out Knights games at 14,000 every Friday night. Hindsight is 20/20. :(


I suspect KW will no doubt build a new arena downtown that will be in the 12-18,000 seating range to replace the ageing Memorial Arena.



Updated information about Bud Gardens so called expansion. They are asking for $33 million to add storage space to the arena. No thanks unless there is major seating added for bigger events.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/budweiser-gardens-makes-pitch-for-expansion-1.6403089

[MrSlippery519]

They are asking tax payers to pick up 80% of this cost, realistically what would the business case be on that pay back? I would be all for seeing them do this expansion in addition to finishing the upper bowl, that work would push the budget at least into the 100 million range.
I believe the overall benefit to the facility and payback case would be much more substantial.

[Djeffery]

Yes hindsight is 20/20 but 25 years ago there was no way to even contemplate the Knights would sell 9000 seats a game for more than 20 years running. They weren't even selling 5000 a game at the old place. They hoped for 6500, which is where the sizes of the lower and upper levels came from and they figured they would have the curtain most games. There was also no way to figure that in the middle of Detroit, Hamilton, Buffalo and Toronto that the concert scene would explode in London the way it did.

What if 9000 was the Knights top end even if there were 14000 seats that cost triple to build (the proposals from back then had costs escalating rapidly beyond the 9000 seats, it wasn't just a case of 50% more seats cost 50% more than 9000). Perhaps the Knights would have drawn less as there wasn't the pressure to buy seasons tickets if you knew there was always thousands of seats available on game day. "Oh it's snowing hard, don't want to walk, let's go another day". I wish it was built larger as well but I certainly understand why it wasn't either.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Yes hindsight is 20/20 but 25 years ago there was no way to even contemplate the Knights would sell 9000 seats a game for more than 20 years running. They weren't even selling 5000 a game at the old place. They hoped for 6500, which is where the sizes of the lower and upper levels came from and they figured they would have the curtain most games. There was also no way to figure that in the middle of Detroit, Hamilton, Buffalo and Toronto that the concert scene would explode in London the way it did.

What if 9000 was the Knights top end even if there were 14000 seats that cost triple to build (the proposals from back then had costs escalating rapidly beyond the 9000 seats, it wasn't just a case of 50% more seats cost 50% more than 9000). Perhaps the Knights would have drawn less as there wasn't the pressure to buy seasons tickets if you knew there was always thousands of seats available on game day. "Oh it's snowing hard, don't want to walk, let's go another day". I wish it was built larger as well but I certainly understand why it wasn't either.

Yeah but the whole point of the arena was that it was not just a "barn" for the Knights. A lot of people said it needed to be expandable to 12,000 or more seats. If Halifax and Saskatoon can have arenas that can host the World Juniors and those cities built those facilities 30-40 years ago, why can London not have the same foresight? Yes we cannot change that now, but now the question is this: how much real benefit will we get out of a $33 million dollar upgrade? If there are no added seats, we won't actually get the bigger events we want. And if that is the case, why throw that money away?

[Djeffery]

Yeah but the whole point of the arena was that it was not just a "barn" for the Knights. A lot of people said it needed to be expandable to 12,000 or more seats. If Halifax and Saskatoon can have arenas that can host the World Juniors and those cities built those facilities 30-40 years ago, why can London not have the same foresight? Yes we cannot change that now, but now the question is this: how much real benefit will we get out of a $33 million dollar upgrade? If there are no added seats, we won't actually get the bigger events we want. And if that is the case, why throw that money away?

Of course it wasn't a barn for the Knights or it would have been built a lot smaller like they wanted. There wasn't a will on council to spend over $100 million on the arena at the time, after doing such other projects as the library and market. Halifax and Saskatoon also don't have Toronto, Detroit and other cities I mentioned within 120 miles. I am interested to see what it is they want to do that costs $33million though.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Halifax and Saskatoon also don't have Toronto, Detroit and other cities I mentioned within 120 miles. I am interested to see what it is they want to do that costs $33million though.

That's essentially London's problem in a nutshell. We are a big city, bigger than both Halifax and Saskatoon but we think like a small city. I know someone who moved from Calgary to London and they said London has all the problems of a larger city but none of the benefits. We rely on Toronto for all the attractions and entertainment, yet we are supposed to be the central city for this part of Ontario.

[MrSlippery519]

Yes hindsight is 20/20 but 25 years ago there was no way to even contemplate the Knights would sell 9000 seats a game for more than 20 years running. They weren't even selling 5000 a game at the old place. They hoped for 6500, which is where the sizes of the lower and upper levels came from and they figured they would have the curtain most games. There was also no way to figure that in the middle of Detroit, Hamilton, Buffalo and Toronto that the concert scene would explode in London the way it did.

What if 9000 was the Knights top end even if there were 14000 seats that cost triple to build (the proposals from back then had costs escalating rapidly beyond the 9000 seats, it wasn't just a case of 50% more seats cost 50% more than 9000). Perhaps the Knights would have drawn less as there wasn't the pressure to buy seasons tickets if you knew there was always thousands of seats available on game day. "Oh it's snowing hard, don't want to walk, let's go another day". I wish it was built larger as well but I certainly understand why it wasn't either.

I agree with what you are saying here, but would add the point is that now we do know the top end is higher than 9000. If a renovation is going to happen to help the back end, staging, dressing rooms, etc be expanded why not shoot bigger and expand the upper bowl at the same time?
This will then allow the facility to support those events that need better space inside for equipment and it will allow the city to bid on larger events that we miss out on today as capacity would be in the 12K range

[GreatTallNorth2]

I agree with what you are saying here, but would add the point is that now we do know the top end is higher than 9000. If a renovation is going to happen to help the back end, staging, dressing rooms, etc be expanded why not shoot bigger and expand the upper bowl at the same time?
This will then allow the facility to support those events that need better space inside for equipment and it will allow the city to bid on larger events that we miss out on today as capacity would be in the 12K range

Yeah I agree that if the money is being spent and it includes a bigger capacity, I am actually all for that. If all they are doing is adding storage space and updating the arena (without any capacity change) then I say spend nothing. That money could be spent in much better ways.

[MrSlippery519]

Yeah I agree that if the money is being spent and it includes a bigger capacity, I am actually all for that. If all they are doing is adding storage space and updating the arena (without any capacity change) then I say spend nothing. That money could be spent in much better ways.

Exactly my argument, if they want to spend 33 million to do just that and 80% is coming from taxpayers, what is the payback? It is going to generate how much added revenue per year getting maybe 1 or 2 new events that they may have missed out on before?
Just seems like if they are going to do a reno lets do it properly.

[Djeffery]

I don't know how much seating they gain with filling in the west end of the upper level but I think it's closer to a 1000 than a few thousand. (the lower level is at least 2/3 of capacity, so the upper level now only seats 2500-3000). I don't know if that also comes at the expense of the standing room currently at the west end, so maybe a net gain of 800 or so. And that is only for hockey as those seats won't be used for concerts, other than the rare "in the round" show. I'm not sure what it would cost to do that, but 1000 new seats probably only generates $750k in Knights sales and then maybe $60k-70k per show that uses them. Would the Knights pay more in rent to justify the construction cost of that to only hopefully gain another 1000 seats a game? I think to boost this place to 12k+ is a major construction project that would cost more than this $33million would, if it's even really possible at all.

[jammer139]

Actually could be around ~2000 more seats if the west end upper bowl was rebuilt to mirror the east end. Would get the arena to ~12,000 seats which is a nice increase. Filling in the west end parking lot would dramatically increase the back of house space with larger dressing rooms, storage, loading docks. Heard the current plan is a $15M first phase. Not sure what that entails. Whatever eventually is proposed they need to consider all the options.



https://www.budweisergardens.com/events-tickets/seating-charts

[GreatTallNorth2]

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/01/07/kitchener-can-build-a-new-downtown-arena-debt-free-says-retired-urban-planner.html

This is an article from The Record (K/W Newspaper) which states that K/W could sell the land the Auditorium is on and build a new 12,000 arena somewhere else. So this is what London is facing - a refurbished 17,000 seat arena in Hamilton and a possible new 12,000 seat arena in K/W. So if London is thinking we just need to add a few storage spaces, etc at Budweiser Gardens, it is just more short term thinking. We had it good for 20 years with a smaller Aud in K/W and outdated arena in Hamilton. We cannot bank on that for the future. At a very minimum we need to be the same or bigger than K/W's future arena. I am sure the arena business is the same as any other business - it's about economics and how much money can you get from events.

[Djeffery]

I did some calculating using a seat map for the Jon Pardi country show in November, and those 6 sections on the east end of the upper level seat about 1500 (approx, as I didn't feel like counting every single dot lol). So if those 6 sections were replicated on the west end, that brings the hockey seating up to a little under 10,500 (given the loss of the standing room currently in that location). Increasing the hockey seating doesn't do anything for competitiveness to KW or Hamilton because we aren't really competing with them for hockey, except for one event. And we aren't going to get that one event in this part of the country. For all the talk of Hockey Canada looking to go back to the grass roots of junior hockey, the WJC will always choose an NHL size arena in Ontario. And I don't think anyone here really cares to be the secondary host city.

Those 1500 seats also do nothing for us for concerts because as I said above, they aren't going to be used for concerts given that they are behind the stage. When I first saw Shania here 20 years ago, she set up at centre ice and they filled the arena to just over 10,000. Very few shows ever do that type of setup though. If KW trumps us with a larger arena, there isn't much we can do with BG to compete with that short of building new again. We need a few thousand more seats east of the west goal line and I don't think there is a cost effective way to do that.

[GreatTallNorth2]

I did some calculating using a seat map for the Jon Pardi country show in November, and those 6 sections on the east end of the upper level seat about 1500 (approx, as I didn't feel like counting every single dot lol). So if those 6 sections were replicated on the west end, that brings the hockey seating up to a little under 10,500 (given the loss of the standing room currently in that location). Increasing the hockey seating doesn't do anything for competitiveness to KW or Hamilton because we aren't really competing with them for hockey, except for one event. And we aren't going to get that one event in this part of the country. For all the talk of Hockey Canada looking to go back to the grass roots of junior hockey, the WJC will always choose an NHL size arena in Ontario. And I don't think anyone here really cares to be the secondary host city.

Those 1500 seats also do nothing for us for concerts because as I said above, they aren't going to be used for concerts given that they are behind the stage. When I first saw Shania here 20 years ago, she set up at centre ice and they filled the arena to just over 10,000. Very few shows ever do that type of setup though. If KW trumps us with a larger arena, there isn't much we can do with BG to compete with that short of building new again. We need a few thousand more seats east of the west goal line and I don't think there is a cost effective way to do that.

So the question is: does it make sense to sink $33 million into the arena? I don’t think so

[Djeffery]

I just want to see what that 33mil is for. Seems awfully high for basically a warehouse extension with some interior amenities. Can't imagine the place is due for new seats, which even at a hundred bucks a pop wouldn't be a million.

[jammer139]

Presentation at this weeks corporate services committee.


Has detailed diagrams



https://pub-london.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=99328

[Djeffery]

So, no proposal for new seating. In fact, it might be a slight loss with those 200 level loge seats, which look like nice new big comfy chairs replacing a couple rows of regular seats in front of the restaurant. And speaking from my line of work, I would really love it if they changed the loading dock configuration. No idea why they aren't directly straight in from Ridout instead of the angle they currently have. I know I've nudged that wall on the left when backing a smaller trailer in around a trailer sitting in the door on the right (speaking from the perspective of the drivers seat). I can only imagine the frustration with the guys in 53 footers with sleeper cabs with a road crew trying to move a show in and out quickly lol. Which also raises the question of where are those trucks going to park now? A small show might fit in 1 or 2 trailers and they leave them in the 2 docks. But even the picture in that report shows 2 in the docks, 6 in the parking lot and a bus as well. Don't know where all those trucks are going to park.

[GreatTallNorth2]

I hope council absolutely opposes this funding request. What are the Knights going to do if we don't upgrade their dressing room? Move somewhere else? I am not opposed to the city spending some money upgrading the arena, but it's a non starter for me if there is not more capacity. Plus they should be thinking much bigger and creating an arena district on the parking lot with shops and residential, etc.

[Djeffery]

I wonder where the Knights lease sits right now? I'm assuming their rent would be adjusted for leasehold improvements, like most other companies that lease space (or pay for it themselves)?

[Djeffery]

Craig Needles talked about the Bud on his podcast today, I highly recommend it. Brian Ohl said that as for seating, they are comfortable with what they have. The head of Tourism London said the back of house area was a specific reason that they were given that we haven't landed the World Juniors yet. Needles also tweeted earlier that a senior exec with OVG said to build this arena today would be $250million.

[jammer139]

City council wants more info about the proposal to renovate the arena.


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/city-politicians-blow-whistle-on-proposed-33m-budweiser-gardens-overhaul

[GreatTallNorth2]

Unfortunately I don't think our council will do much to push the envelope here. They are just being prudent to make sure the numbers work. I would be more supportive of this project if they were increasing the capacity or adding more of an arena district on the land. But they are just refreshing the interior and adding storage, which might be needed but might not be the best return on investment for what the city (taxpayers) are being asked to invest.

[jammer139]

CTV article on the latest update on the proposed upgrades for Budweiser Gardens.



https://london.ctvnews.ca/upgrades-to-budweiser-gardens-would-pay-long-term-dividends-kpmg-report-1.6580820

[jammer139]

Report including slide deck for the proposed $33M two phase renovation of the Bud.


https://pub-london.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=103306

[GreatTallNorth2]

I think the price tag is $33 million now. Either way I am totally opposed to spending that money there, especially if there is no capacity increase. It's essentially corporate welfare. That money can be spent on other tourism ventures. London is really lacking in actual attractions and that money would go a long way in building something desireable in the downtown.

[MolsonExport]

yeah, I vote no to this form of corporate welfare.

[Djeffery]

Definitely some of this work needs to be done. the back of house expansion is necessary to keep getting large events, especially the multi-day things that actually bring tourist dollars. I think the Knights can pay for their own dressing room unless this is something that will increase their rent. Some of this other stuff, I don't really care about. Lounges and bars don't interest me and the loge seats look like they are taking away seating that already exists. It is a city owned facility for the most part so I'm not sure I this counts as corporate welfare, especially since the private part of the public private partnership I think is also kicking in cash on this.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Definitely some of this work needs to be done. the back of house expansion is necessary to keep getting large events, especially the multi-day things that actually bring tourist dollars. I think the Knights can pay for their own dressing room unless this is something that will increase their rent. Some of this other stuff, I don't really care about. Lounges and bars don't interest me and the loge seats look like they are taking away seating that already exists. It is a city owned facility for the most part so I'm not sure I this counts as corporate welfare, especially since the private part of the public private partnership I think is also kicking in cash on this.

I don't doubt it might be nice to be done but when you said it needs to be done, what does that mean? And what is the cost/benefit vs. spending that money on another venue?

I just don't think they have a right to that money and I certainly don't think politicians should hand it over without public input.

The public private partnership is a nice situation if you are OVG360 because they are getting most of the money for free and they reap most of the benefits. It's not like it's a not for profit company like the Western Fair, etc. It's a for profit company. I have no problem with profit, but I don't like how willing counsellors are to just hand over money without exploring what else it could be spent on.

[Djeffery]

I don't doubt it might be nice to be done but when you said it needs to be done, what does that mean? And what is the cost/benefit vs. spending that money on another venue?

I just don't think they have a right to that money and I certainly don't think politicians should hand it over without public input.

The public private partnership is a nice situation if you are OVG360 because they are getting most of the money for free and they reap most of the benefits. It's not like it's a not for profit company like the Western Fair, etc. It's a for profit company. I have no problem with profit, but I don't like how willing counsellors are to just hand over money without exploring what else it could be spent on.

But your singular focus has been on seating capacity and it sounds like you would be all in if they came back and said we are spending tens of millions on adding a couple thousand seats. And there is only one place they could add seats and as discussed upthread, they don't add anything for concerts, where everyone agrees it would be nice to have more seats.

There are suites that they are trying to extract tens of thousands of dollars a year out of companies and they haven't been renovated in over 20 years. We have a crappy scoreboard that is getting replaced. I'm not a restaurant guy but I assume kitchen equipment needs to be replaced. The catering department for group events and suites I'm sure needs the occasional upgrade to be able to efficiently service those higher spending clients and suck more money out of them. I'm neither here nor there on the entire food and beverage operation because I don't partake of any of it when I'm there. But obviously many people do and this area is a huge driver of revenue, and most restaurants do spend large dollars to refresh themselves every couple decades or so, so I don't see why the arena has to be different in that respect.

The building addition at the west end is to replace the amateur looking tents they have to put up when they have a large event. It's an event space, not just a storage room and could also be used for things on it's own not even related to the arena. I could see that space being incorporated into Dundas Place events where sometimes it might be nice to have something to do indoors as well as outdoors. As I mentioned a few months ago, the need for those tents was listed as a main reason why we are overlooked for World Juniors and are at risk of not getting things like Junos and CCMA, or other large sporting events coming back. The World Juniors thing could just be an excuse because as I said I don't believe they are ever coming here when they know they have the cash cow of large NHL arenas not too far away.

As for the other things they list, admin offices, Knights dressing room. I don't know. I have no idea what the Knights are doing with $2.5 million in the locker room and another 1.8 million in their offices and how much more they end up paying in rent due to that. I would tend to say they can pay that themselves but given they are a tenant, I don't know how that works. The admin office is only half a million, which is like 8% of what the private side of the partnership is kicking in to this so I don't really have an issue with that.