$50M auto mall for city

[K85]

A new crop will rise in a farmer's field in east London, one of steel and glass.

A $50 million auto mall with seven car dealerships will be built on 15 hectares of farm field, bounded by Crumlin Sideroad, Veterans Memorial Parkway and Dundas St..

The mall marks a transition in London for car dealers to a big box, power centre model, common in the United States and the Toronto area, but not seen here before.

"It's a proven way to sell vehicles, people like to go to them," said Brian Semkowski, a successful London software developer who owns London City Chrysler Semkowski is president of Shrew Sports Corp. that will build the mall.

"It brings people out, it offers one-stop shopping where they can walk around and look at different vehicles," he said.

The mall also offers economies of scale because marketing and advertising costs are shared, Semkowski said.

He's signed five of the seven car dealers and is in talks with the remaining two. The site also will offer a retail component featuring a restaurant, gas bar and bank.

The auto mall trend is on the rise as dealers in the Toronto area have seen them embraced by buyers who like the convenience, said Todd Bourgon, executive director of the Trillium Dealers Association, a provincial agency representing new dealerships.

"The big thing about this is the efficiencies. Buyers can shop for more than one brand at the same time," he said.

"In the U.S, and here, it has proven to be successful."

Semkowksi is adding a new Mazda dealership, London City Mazda, that he also owns.

The development will cost $50 million, $6.6 million of which is to buy the land.

Semkowski said the mall will be direct competition to the auto mile on Wharncliffe Rd. featuring many car dealers. The development will leave several large vacant storefronts where the dealers moving to the mall are located.

The proposal for the mall went to the city's planning and environment committee this week and was referred back to staff to rework a road proposal in the plan.

It's not certain when Semkowski will get the green light for development.

ON THE MOVE

Dealerships moving to a new auto mall in southeast London:

MacMaster Chevrolet Leavens Volkswagen Competition Toyota London City Mazda, a new dealership London City Chrysler Two more to be announced

[Wharn]

Even though my first reaction was "More big box in London? This is a terrible idea", shopping for cars is very different from shopping for goods. Purchases are obviously very infrequent, so they are not likely to have much of an effect on business traffic in the city. Unless the dealerships are fairly small, they contribute to urban blight when they're in the middle of a developed area (if you're ever in Toronto, drive along Eglinton Avenue in Scarborough and you will see what I mean), so it may make sense to move them to the fringes and free up space for development. Plus, when you're away from traffic, it may be easier to test the true abilities of a car before buying it.

[haljackey]

As long as the existing car dealerships aren't simply turned into abandoned lots I'm for it.

Dundas is a pretty major transit corridor, so hopefully these lots can be redeveloped for commercial and/or residential use.

[MolsonExport]

As long as the existing car dealerships aren't simply turned into abandoned lots I'm for it.


of course this is what will happen. Business as usual in Sprawlsburg, Ontario. Already in many cities there are abandoned dealerships due to the downsizing of GM, Ford and Chrysler network.

Hey, why not put it in Hyde Park to make that part of town even uglier?

[manny_santos]

I've seen urban car dealerships that don't look bad at all. They just have to be planned properly.

[K85]

This auto mall is now being built. The frame work for 4 dealerships is starting to be put up. As far as I know, MacMaster, will be going there, as well as ToyotaTown. Ford will be staying near Highbury as they have a huge tract of land.

If photos are wanted, I can head out there sometime in the coming days.

[MrSlippery519]

This auto mall is now being built. The frame work for 4 dealerships is starting to be put up. As far as I know, MacMaster, will be going there, as well as ToyotaTown. Ford will be staying near Highbury as they have a huge tract of land.

If photos are wanted, I can head out there sometime in the coming days.

Photo's would be great if you go by, I drove by a week or so ago and did not notice anything but really was not specifically looking.

[K85]

It's on my list :)

Photo's would be great if you go by, I drove by a week or so ago and did not notice anything but really was not specifically looking.

[K85]

From today

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/9029/pg8g.jpg

[MrSlippery519]

This is chugging along nicely, drove by last week tons of progress since the last pictures of course.

[MolsonExport]

what will happen to the old dealerships on Wharncliffe Road south and Oxford street? E.g., Highbury Ford?

[Snark]

what will happen to the old dealerships on Wharncliffe Road south and Oxford street? E.g., Highbury Ford?

Mega methadone clinics. ;)

But seriously folks... I doubt that there will be much effect at dealerships on the west side of town. They are far enough away. I think the question is quite legit for any dealership on the east side of town though. One the comes to mind is the Ford dealership on Dundas just east of Highbury. Can't imagine that it will stick around.

This "auto mall" development is much like the proposed mega big box complex south of the 401: if it simply siphons off existing businesses from their current locations, and those locations don't get a replacement land use of equivalent value, it is not growing the economy. The same can be said about job creation: if there is little creation of new jobs, or mainly just the creation of McJobs, then these types of developments are simply making a handful of rich people who mainly live in Toronto richer at the determent of the community as a whole.

[MolsonExport]

that or perhaps more payday loan outfits. East London has more Payday loan outfits than Tim Hortons. And I don't think I am exaggerating.

[K85]

In speaking with people there, ford will be staying due to the lot size they have, and traffic going by.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Yawn. What a boring project and another example of London's obsession with sprawl and just plain ugliness. Nothing to get excited about.

[MolsonExport]

Mega methadone clinics. ;)


This "auto mall" development is much like the proposed mega big box complex south of the 401: if it simply siphons off existing businesses from their current locations, and those locations don't get a replacement land use of equivalent value, it is not growing the economy. The same can be said about job creation: if there is little creation of new jobs, or mainly just the creation of McJobs, then these types of developments are simply making a handful of rich people who mainly live in Toronto richer at the determent of the community as a whole.

I agree.

[MrSlippery519]

In speaking with people there, ford will be staying due to the lot size they have, and traffic going by.

I did not figure they would give up that spot being there so long. That said I am still surprised Ford will have a spot in this new development. Just does not make much business sense to me, aside for "being there" I cannot image how financially they would be able to support both locations.

[K85]

They are moving? Shit. I could have sworn it was there that I spoke with the guy. (GF bought a car so it was either there or MacMaster). Both have huge lots.

I did not figure they would give up that spot being there so long. That said I am still surprised Ford will have a spot in this new development. Just does not make much business sense to me, aside for "being there" I cannot image how financially they would be able to support both locations.

[ssiguy]

Auto malls are very common out here, especially in the suburbs. They have become more the rule than the exception.

This is actually one "big-box" concept that I actually agree with. Auto dealers always need exposure and due to the large tracts of land needed for their business, they often create a blight on the urban landscape.

What the Auto Mall concept does is get most of those dealers off the front of the major roadways and they are usually hotly sought after locations for other commercial/office or residential which are almost always more attractive and pedestrian friendly than a car lot. By using a one large tract of land, most of the dealers are "within" the mall itself as in not taking up road facing sections. The once unsightly car lots effectively move from the front of our roadways to an area where they are "out of sight, out of mind".

They almost always have a positive impact on the city because they allow for redevelopment of former parking lots throughout the city. This is one of those rare instances where the big box development mindset actually works to the city and her citizens advantage.

[manny_santos]

Auto malls are very common out here, especially in the suburbs. They have become more the rule than the exception.

This is actually one "big-box" concept that I actually agree with. Auto dealers always need exposure and due to the large tracts of land needed for their business, they often create a blight on the urban landscape.

I would agree as well, car lots in central urban areas are very unattractive. I live near a used car lot, it is only one step above former gas station lot.

[Snark]

The theory being floated here that auto malls are good because it draws off unattractive car lots to less visible locations - freeing up those locations for more useful and attractive land use is a good one, except for one detail: the part where a new developer purchases the former car lot and constructs something that is a more useful and attractive land use. That rarely actually happens - especially EOA.

In reality that new land use will far more likely be a used car lot run by some greasy shyster, or it is torn down and if lucky a fast food joint or strip mall built on it. The third possibility is that the land is contaminated because it was a garage for 50 or more years and no one will buy it. It that case it sits derelict, or is rented to said greasy used car salesman, or is torn down and sits as a weed-infested field for the foreseeable future. Recall the we are talking about EOA territory here. There isn't a big clamor to snap up any piece of available vacant land at any cost and get a high-value development on it.

I suppose there is a fourth option: There was a big-3 dealership at Wonderland and Oxford that closed up and was then purchased by a line of new car products known as Porsche. Perhaps a Lambo dealership could go in at Dundas and Highbury. All of the EOA denizens could then go shopping at Wal-Mart at Argyle, then stop by at Gibraltar for some pirate video cassettes of Chinese kung-fu movies, and then score a new Lambo on the way home. Convenience double plus good!

[K85]

People need to stop shitting on those who live East of Adelaide...

[MrSlippery519]

People need to stop shitting on those who live East of Adelaide...

No crap, certainly there are some areas "EAO" that are less than desirable however how is that any different than those same sketchy area's off Wharncliffe, etc??

My current home is "EAO" in the Spruce/Saskatoon area, we have amazing neighbors, everyone on the street keeps their homes well kept, etc. I could easily move to a more fancy cookie cut part of town but its just not what I look for in a home. I am quite happy putting all of the extra money my wife and I make into the bank vs having a $350,000 house.

Also sorry for the off topic

[manny_santos]

The theory being floated here that auto malls are good because it draws off unattractive car lots to less visible locations - freeing up those locations for more useful and attractive land use is a good one, except for one detail: the part where a new developer purchases the former car lot and constructs something that is a more useful and attractive land use. That rarely actually happens - especially EOA.

Here in Kingston, we had quite a few car dealerships in a not particularly attractive area that closed and were demolished. One of them was a Toyota dealership that closed only 3-4 years ago, and there is a new multipurpose commercial/residential development under construction on the site.

It can be done in London.

[vid]

In Vancouver, the Porsche dealership is along the Skytrain line. I thought that was kind of interesting.

If London has any kind of retail demand, those spaces will be redeveloped pretty quickly, even if it is just as some form of retail. Every time a dealership has closed in Thunder Bay, it doesn't stand vacant for long, and I would assume that London is doing better than us by pretty much any measure. If the city was smart, they would try to use zoning or some sort of incentive to get mixed use development in the area.

[K85]

Lol!:d

if the city was smart...

[K85]

A small update. VW and London City Chrysler are now open there. Another two shops on the way, one I believe is MacMaster

[middeljohn]

Is London a large enough market to justify having so many dealerships? It'll be better for creating some more competition though. I bought my car in Mississauga simply because I got a price $3,000 lower than here in London, simply due to there being so much competition between dealers in the GTA.

[K85]

IMO, yes. However, they are horrible centered. That, with the sheer number of used car lots doesn't bode well. I think though, that this is a good step in the right direction.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Wonder what will become of the old dealership lots? Whether there's some future developments or they'll become the latest brownfields of London..

[K85]

Sigh, I live right near em, and they look like shit... :( I have a feeling they'll stay this way for a while. Hayatts just recently became a furniture place, and even that is sketchy to stay. It was empty for over a year.

[MrSlippery519]

London City property could easily become a restaurant, knock it down and build a Jack Asstors or Boston Pizza.

However I tend to agree that we will end up seeing most of them empty for years.

[Wharn]

Is London a large enough market to justify having so many dealerships? It'll be better for creating some more competition though. I bought my car in Mississauga simply because I got a price $3,000 lower than here in London, simply due to there being so much competition between dealers in the GTA.

The trick is not just competition between dealers per se, but also competition between dealers of the same manufacturer. When you have all the GM, Volvo, Subaru, Ford, whatever dealers desperately trying to move inventory, and competing against EACH OTHER to reduce costs and steal customers on the same products, you're going to get better deals.

[middeljohn]

The trick is not just competition between dealers per se, but also competition between dealers of the same manufacturer. When you have all the GM, Volvo, Subaru, Ford, whatever dealers desperately trying to move inventory, and competing against EACH OTHER to reduce costs and steal customers on the same products, you're going to get better deals.

That's what I was refering to. I'm admittedly a bit surprised that Macmaster, Finch and Cullen GM can all coexist given city size. (on a side note, between Finch and Farhi it's hard to not see one of their last names in whichever direction you look :P)

[haljackey]

I don't think Brian Finch sells GM vehicles anymore. The switched to Hundai or Subaru or something.

The Acura dealership on Wonderland service road (by Angelo's / Athletic Club) went through a major overhaul last year. They're pretty isolated as far as dealerships go. I thought they were demolishing the place and moving rather than completely rebuilding it.


Also its funny to think that GM only has 4 brands now (Chevrolet, GMC, Cadillac and Buick) and because of that Chrysler has the more brands than anyone else (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, RAM, FIAT and SRT).

[middeljohn]

Finch still does GM. Up on Wonderland and Oxford. He does almost all the major brands.

[haljackey]

Wait I was thinking about Dale Downie. Looks like they do Nissan now. http://www.daledownienissan.ca/index.htm