[Halifax] Citadel Halifax Redevelopment | 3X49 m | 18-16-16 fl | Completed [Archive]

fenwick16

Sep 8, 2011, 3:30 AM

So, is this as of right?

This appears to be within the HRM_by_Design height limits (49 meters pre-bonus height; and Citadel Hill ramparts-maximum, post-bonus height) and according to the website "All proposed upgrades align with HRMbyDesign guidelines, while balancing attention to heritage assets and contemporary architecture."

The pre-bonus and post-bonus height maps (maps 4 and 5) are in this document - http://halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf

So it appears as though this can proceed without a special development agreement. It just has to pass the HRM_by_Design design guidelines. The height doesn't appear to be a problem. The website (http://www.citadelhotelmakeover.ca/project-qa/) indicates that construction is expected to begin early in 2012 and be complete 18 months later in 2013.

This is the location in Bing Maps Bird's Eye View - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf7g079q1khv&lvl=19.240223758103706&dir=181.6452995018245&sty=b&where1=Halifax%2C%20NS&form=LMLTCC

resetcbu1

Sep 8, 2011, 4:19 AM

I love it ,I think it's great for that area and will hopefully spur more growth and development along what has been a blighted strip in a prime location for some time now :tup: I also read a few comments regarding the designs/renderings that they aren't that great but IMO they are far superior to any other buildings in the immediate vicinity and look good. jut my opinion though:shrug:

RyeJay

Sep 8, 2011, 5:05 AM

halifaxboyns

Sep 8, 2011, 5:26 AM

I was thinking about this tonight and the comments made about this going through HbD rather than a DA. I couldn't help but think back to a comment I believe keithp made (I could be wrong) about how HbD was a failure and had made things worse...

I'm starting to wonder if this wasn't a period of just getting used to a new set of rules and now people are getting the hang of it and things seem to be going better? I know that was the case when Calgary changed over to it's new land use bylaw. I was a development planner then and the old bylaw versus the new (2P80 vs 1P2007) was night and day and it really took a while for many of us to wrap our head around some concepts, despite having 6 months worth of training and quizes and stuff like that. I thank god we had a team of staff who wrote the bylaw 'on call', but it makes me wonder if now we're seeing developers, architects and even the internal staff now getting used to things? Thus it seems like things are flowing easier?

I could be mistaking that for just a new found optimism that's been created since the announcement about Nova Centre, while we patiently await the outcome of Ranks negotiations with potential tenants. Or perhaps people are realizing that the condo market in Halifax is stronger than it appeared and that people actually want to live downtown...

someone123

Sep 8, 2011, 5:40 AM

HbD is limiting in some ways but I think it is good for more run-of-the-mill developments.

The really nice part about this is that it's a kind of baby step toward rehabilitating the Cogswell area. New developments on the interchange lands will be able to tie in with these buildings to create more of a neighbourhood.

This could also be good for Gottingen Street.

eastcoastal

Sep 8, 2011, 11:10 AM

I think this is a pretty good response to the area - I do have to say I liked the vintage style of the existing hotel buildings, and was hoping for a bit more of an homage to the modernist feel. I'll take this non-statement though.

ScovaNotian

Sep 8, 2011, 11:42 AM

gm_scott

Sep 8, 2011, 2:00 PM

"It is scheduled to open in fall 2013" -from the website.

Seems optimistic, but I hope its not too unreasonable.

RyeJay

Sep 8, 2011, 4:25 PM

Is this proposal for two buildings or for three? The building at the far left of the image in the first post in this thread seems to be existing, suggesting that there will be three buildings. The other renderings on the website show only two though.

I believe they have yet to choose one proposal over another; they are considering both.

I support both. There is nothing offensive about these potential developments. Just plain.

someone123

Sep 8, 2011, 4:43 PM

Several of the renderings feature the new apartment building. In some cases it's just drawn as blocks but it is definitely different from what's there now. My impression is that the two corner buildings are the hotel and the third building will be apartments.

someone123

Sep 9, 2011, 2:03 AM

ANS reported tonight that the hotel already has financing, so they can proceed as soon as they get approval.

PoscStudent

Sep 9, 2011, 2:21 AM

My Mom was reminding me last night how she would never stay in this hotel again, maybe after a makeover she will reconsider.

Dmajackson

Sep 9, 2011, 2:54 AM

ANS reported tonight that the hotel already has financing, so they can proceed as soon as they get approval.

They also mentioned the two brands will be named in the next few weeks. Citadel will not be included.

worldlyhaligonian

Sep 9, 2011, 3:20 PM

ANS reported tonight that the hotel already has financing, so they can proceed as soon as they get approval.

Amazing.

I wonder if the ususal suspects will speak out against this...

beyeas

Sep 9, 2011, 4:28 PM

ANS reported tonight that the hotel already has financing, so they can proceed as soon as they get approval.

Yeah I thought it was quite interested (no idea how common this is) that this is not going to be a conventional bank finance, but rather it is being done through a direct investment from a pension fund! They didn't say which fund, but regardless, I found that rather interesting, as that strikes me as unconventional, especially with something like a hotel construction financing.

someone123

Sep 9, 2011, 4:36 PM

One difference here is that there's already a hotel on this site that was presumably profitable for decades (no doubt they let it go downhill a bit once they decided to replace it). It's not quite the same as building a new hotel, even if the brand changes.

I don't know if it's uncommon for pension funds to finance hotels but they certainly finance a lot of other real estate ventures.

Dmajackson

Sep 9, 2011, 5:53 PM

Case 17179 - Pre-application by Chamberlain Architect Services Limited on behalf of SilverBirch No. 15 Holdings Limited to redevelop 1960 Brunswick Street, Halifax, into a mixed use commercial, hotel and residential project through the site plan approval process for Downtown Halifax.

A public open house will be held on Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 7:00-9:00 pm, in the Wentworth Room of hte Citadel hotel, 1960 Brunswick Street, Halifax. Representatives of Chamberlain Architect Services Limited and SilverBirch No. 15 Holdings Limited will be present to discuss the proposal and to answer questions from the public.

bluenoser

Sep 9, 2011, 10:58 PM

From the Chronicle Herald:

Hotel to be razed, rise again
Union grieves lengthy layoff during rebuild of Citadel Halifax Hotel
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Fri, Sep 9 - 4:54 AM

The fully-funded, $60-million development will include two, 13-storey, hotel towers with a total of 278 rooms and an adjacent 130-unit apartment building owned by GWL Realty Advisors Inc. of Toronto that will between 15- and 18- storeys high.

Giblin said the project, which also includes conference space, street-level retail space, an independent restaurant and a parkade, meets HRM by Design development guidelines, including Citadel Hill view-plane and street setback provisions.

...

The new complex, scheduled to open in fall 2013, will feature stone and brick exteriors, sustainable building materials and a green roof.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1262242.html

It seems like each building will be a different hotel and if that's the case, it would have been cool to have two different buildings. Oh well. Looking at the renderings, I was wondering if the bulk of the exterior might be a light coloured brick and not precast. I hope that's the case.

hoser111

Sep 9, 2011, 11:31 PM

According to the website:

"Design Features:

Exterior materials like stone, brick and curtain wall glazing will be used to integrate with surrounding area and buildings"

ScovaNotian

Sep 9, 2011, 11:50 PM

[...] will be used to integrate with surrounding area and buildings"
That's actually worrisome, isn't it?

haligonia

Sep 10, 2011, 12:17 AM

That's actually worrisome, isn't it?

To me it is. That block of Brunswick is one of the crappiest in the city.

cormiermax

Sep 10, 2011, 12:53 AM

Sounds to be like they plan on using crap materials, which will make this an ugly building, and probably a lower end hotel.

halifaxboyns

Sep 10, 2011, 1:24 AM

Sounds to be like they plan on using crap materials, which will make this an ugly building, and probably a lower end hotel.

It's really too early to say anything either way.
Having two hotels or one big hotel - doesn't really matter to me. I'm quite happy that they've been thinking about doing something with the site that really intensifies it. I'll reserve judgement until I see what gets approved.

There was a comment earlier from bluenoser that talked about hoping for one big hotel. Depending on the design it can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing. I can think of a few examples where the design either doesn't work or does. The Delta Calgary South is a two tower hotel but the design requires you to check in at the west tower and then you could end up rooms in the east. It means you end up having to truck quite a ways and frankly it didn't work very well for me.

If I look at the Sheraton Wall Centre in Vancouver, that too is a 2 tower hotel. It's been a while since I have stayed there but as I recall it was a bit of a truck from the lobby to the far (north?) tower. But then they had staff to help you (as opposed to the Delta).

Personally, if they wanted to do one big hotel with two towers, I'd want the check in area at the dead centre, so that the towers are equal distance away. Then put all the core functions in the middle as well, restaurants, convention rooms, bars, pools, gyms, etc.

Empire

Sep 10, 2011, 2:52 AM

To me it is. That block of Brunswick is one of the crappiest in the city.

The street below is crappy as well. All the more reason to use better materials. They should just go with brick instead of precast.

Crappy Street below Brunswick.

Albemarie St.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=en&ll=44.649971,-63.577302&spn=0.000008,0.003385&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=28.297189,55.458984&vpsrc=6&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=44.649825,-63.577567&panoid=5BefAMZbuNqatItmsS4c-A&cbp=12,348.44,,0,0

fenwick16

Sep 10, 2011, 12:18 PM

The street below is crappy as well. All the more reason to use better materials. They should just go with brick instead of precast.

Crappy Street below Brunswick.

Albemarie St.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=en&ll=44.649971,-63.577302&spn=0.000008,0.003385&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=28.297189,55.458984&vpsrc=6&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=44.649825,-63.577567&panoid=5BefAMZbuNqatItmsS4c-A&cbp=12,348.44,,0,0

I think that the parking lot podium of Scotia Square is its worst feature. I wish that something could be done to improve it. For example, could outer sections be removed and converted to low rise residential? That would get more people on Abemarle Street which normally only has car traffic but few pedestrians.

I think that the removal of the Cogswell Interchange would be greatly enhanced by a major renovation of Scotia Square. It is almost 45 years old now which is about time for an overhaul (it is almost as old as the Citadel Inn).

q12

Sep 13, 2011, 2:09 PM

Here's a story on how the Citadel Hotel was a catalyst for the height restrictions and the beginning of the era of the "Save the View of the Beautiful Oil Refinery people".

How the Citadel Halifax shaped downtown development

Urban Compass by Stephen Kimber
METRO HALIFAX
Published: September 12, 2011 2:00 p.m.
Last modified: September 12, 2011 9:51 a.m.

Last week, SilverBirch Hotels, the Vancouver-based company that owns the Citadel Halifax hotel, announced plans to flatten it.

The company intends to replace the venerable downtown landmark with a $60-million, triple-tower, hotel-apartment complex it says will generate “a lot more” street-level activity in the northern downtown while conforming to HRM by Design — and legislation protecting views of the harbour from Citadel Hill.

Ironically, a plan to redevelop the original two-storey Citadel hotel 40 years ago triggered the debate that led to creating those still-controversial views.

By the late 1960s, preservationists were winning the battle to protect the city’s historic waterfront from the wrecker’s ball, but they seemed to be losing the war to preserve Citadel Hill’s iconic harbour views one bigger-than-theirs bank tower at a time.

Read more here: http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/comment/article/966519--how-the-citadel-halifax-shaped-downtown-development

Dmajackson

Sep 21, 2011, 7:17 PM

Public Information Meeting tonight at 7pm at the hotel.

halifaxboyns

Sep 22, 2011, 2:46 PM

Councillor Sloane posted this article to her facebook, so I thought I would pass it along:

NS: Halifax Citadel owners plan makeover

Metro Halifax
Silverbirch’s planned redevelopment will include two new hotels, featuring a residential building, retail space and a restaurant.

HALIFAX, NS] — The owners of Halifax’s Citadel Hotel have submitted a plan to redesign the building to city hall.

The planned redevelopment will include two new hotels, featuring a residential building, retail space and a restaurant. The two hotels will have a combined total of 278 rooms, while the residential component will feature approximately 130 apartments.

According to Silverbirch’s website, the project will focus on more pedestrian traffic than vehicular traffic, and will include ground level commercial space to attract passersby.

“With a focus on people, sustainability and activity, the new project will add to a vibrant downtown core and positively impact the surrounding area,” the website reads. “All proposed upgrades align with HRM by design guidelines, while balancing attention to heritage assets and contemporary architecture.”

Silverbirch also touts the economic benefits for the city, should it approve the project. It estimates the project will contribute $1,646,000 in property taxes, $2,097,000 in HST from food and beverages, and $244,000 in hotel levies for a total of $3,987,000 to city and provincial coffers.

The Citadel Hotel has occupied the corner of Brunswick Street and Cogswell Street since 1963, when it opened as Citadel Inn.

The rest of the article is here. (http://www.ns.dailybusinessbuzz.ca/Provincial%20News/2011-09-09/article-2743772/NS-Halifax-Citadel-owners-plan-makeover/1#.TnqpKll08lo.facebook)

Anyone go to the meeting? Any news to report? Did Pacey flip his lid?

Jstaleness

Sep 22, 2011, 4:15 PM

^^^What? no height, wind or shadow arguments? That's good. This one should go through.

halifaxboyns

Sep 22, 2011, 7:19 PM

^^^What? no height, wind or shadow arguments? That's good. This one should go through.

Well I haven't heard what really went on during the meeting; so I'm not so sure about that. :)

worldlyhaligonian

Sep 23, 2011, 2:40 PM

Any info on what happened? This one seems like a development that will actually be built.

Jstaleness

Sep 23, 2011, 2:48 PM

Well I haven't heard what really went on during the meeting; so I'm not so sure about that. :)

Haha! Well I saw a bit of light at the end of the tunnel when she seemed in favour. Gotta have hope when hope is available.

Jringe01

Dec 21, 2011, 4:22 AM

When did they start calling this Ablemarie Street? It was always Market Street

Jstaleness

Dec 21, 2011, 12:37 PM

When did they start calling this Ablemarie Street? It was always Market Street

I can't remember the exact date but I think it was because it was Albemarle before it was ever Market St.

Waye Mason

Dec 21, 2011, 1:52 PM

Market Street and Brunswick Street got renamed because, I was told, the unsavoury aspects of their histories was so well known... being where the taverns and brothels were located.

-Harlington-

Dec 21, 2011, 4:44 PM

Plus the Metro Centre cuts it off, I'm not sure if that contributed to the name change but it makes sense

Same thing with George st and grand parade I suppose .

alps

Dec 21, 2011, 5:23 PM

This section of the street was changed to Albemarle in October 2007. (source) (http://halifax.ca/civicaddress/documents/AllHRMstreetchanges.pdf) I remember reading some article about how the city was undertaking a campaign to change potentially confusing street names -- streets that were divided into two bits, had names similar to others, etc. Which is why new names like Massachusetts Ave, Carmichael Street, Martello Street, and Albemarle came about.

pblaauw

Dec 21, 2011, 10:40 PM

Good thing the two Duke Streets are so far apart.

c@taract_soulj@h

Dec 22, 2011, 5:30 AM

Had to check up on the good ol Hali forum and couldn't help notice the Citadel being talked about.

I really liked that hotel...got it for a great price off of Expedia (I think like 400$ for 3 nites), close to everything and the view from our room was great such as Citadel Hill and also this, to the right :D

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4123/4923040532_d56402f134.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22541932@N02/4923040532/)
Halifax 2010 198 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22541932@N02/4923040532/) by sens_31 (http://www.flickr.com/people/22541932@N02/), on Flickr

Honestly though, I wanna make another trip back soon...hope they don't mess the hotel up too much

Jonovision

Dec 24, 2011, 2:20 PM

They have a little farewell message posted on their cheap glow promotions type sign on Brunswick Street.

-Harlington-

Jan 2, 2012, 12:42 AM

Since this is coming down sometime soon might as well have a before picture:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6602721701_b37cdfde01_z.jpg

this is a view that should be quite different in time .

RyeJay

Jan 2, 2012, 3:10 AM

:previous:

Thanks for the pictures!
This will definitely be a different view in a few years.

As more downtown developments are completed the behind the scenes perspective to Halifax's cityscape, from Citadel Hill, is going to get even better!

A crane or two at the Nova Centre site would make everyone feel better about the city's density.

fromaway

Jan 3, 2012, 7:42 AM

Since this is coming down sometime soon might as well have a before picture:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6602721701_b37cdfde01_z.jpg

this is a view that should be quite different in time .

Sadly it probably won't be. The building in the right hand half of the picture is a goverment office building (Public Service Comm. Building according to google maps) not part of the old Citadel hotel. The new hotel development beyond appears to be roughtly the same height.

The portion of the existing hotel visible on the left hand side of the picture in illustration 3 of the developers website is shown vaguely as a series of plates --- a parking garage perhaps?? http://www.citadelhotelmakeover.ca/images/
Illustration #1 takes liberties with the existing office building but I see no mention of its redevelopment on the website.

fromaway

Jan 3, 2012, 8:39 AM

Since this is coming down sometime soon might as well have a before picture:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6602721701_b37cdfde01_z.jpg

this is a view that should be quite different in time .

I may stand corrected - it appears that a third residential tower is indeed to be built on the site but by a different developer - the owner of the apartment towers across the street. Probably just north of the existing gov't office building and probably about 5 stories taller (as will also be the hotel) so it will be visible from Citadel Hill but the ugly old office building will still be prominent. HRM planning department site directs you only to the hotel developer's website thus the confusion.

In any event I hope they also have plans to fix up Scotia Towers - particularly the middle block across the street. The brick facade leaked like a seive when I emptied out a deceased relative's apartment several years ago. Buckled parquet and standing water on the floors after driving rains. Surprised to learn they also own Purdy's Wharf.

Western part of site may still indeed become a parking garage or to be more positive a "future development"

RyeJay

Jan 3, 2012, 1:37 PM

:previous:

According to the renderings, the tower with its length along Cogswell will be half-visible in the view captured by this picture.

fromaway

Jan 6, 2012, 8:05 AM

:previous:

According to the renderings, the tower with its length along Cogswell will be half-visible in the view captured by this picture.

To my eye looking at the renderings and a map of the site the new tower along Cogswell would only extend to about the existing west tower. Curiously image 3 loosely shows another structure to the west on Cogswell while the illustration on the homepage doesn't.

In any event almost anything built on this block would be a big improvement. Something to block the bright red view of Staples would be nice.

Dmajackson

Jan 6, 2012, 6:50 PM

Here's the document going before the Design Review Committee next week for consideration;

Case 17442 - Substantive Site Plan Approval (http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/drc/documents/120112drc71.pdf)

kph06

Jan 6, 2012, 6:57 PM

Here's the document going before the Design Review Committee next week for consideration;

Case 17442 - Substantive Site Plan Approval (http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/drc/documents/120112drc71.pdf)

Interesting, looks like Homewood Suites by Hilton will be one building, and Hampton Inn will be the other.

The appartment building looks like a bigger Vic.

someone123

Jan 6, 2012, 7:30 PM

The apartment looks nicer to me in the report than it did in some earlier renderings. The "V" shaped roof is a bit of a fad but it's still a really nice project. As I've said before it reminds me a lot of what you see in some parts of Seattle (and Nova Centre is similar to the Seattle convention centre).

If this is built there will be an interesting canyon effect along Brunswick Street. It would be complemented nicely by a new tower on the Trinity site -- the downtown would start to blend in with the neighbourhood north of Cogswell instead of ending abruptly in a "dead zone". The new towers would also add a lot of depth/layering to the skyline.

I hope this gets approved quickly. Not sure what the HbD heights are. I could see some people getting upset about how close this is to the Citadel, but as far as I know this is an area that is considered more suitable for highrise development.

q12

Jan 8, 2012, 2:37 PM

Interesting, looks like Homewood Suites by Hilton will be one building, and Hampton Inn will be the other.

The appartment building looks like a bigger Vic.

Interesting, Homewood Suites by Hilton was also suppose to be in the works for Dartmouth Crossing near the existing Hampton Inn at the corner of Wright Avenue and Finlay Drive.

fenwick16

Jan 8, 2012, 5:16 PM

I hope this gets approved quickly. Not sure what the HbD heights are. I could see some people getting upset about how close this is to the Citadel, but as far as I know this is an area that is considered more suitable for highrise development.

The height limits are shown to be 49 meters pre-bonus height and ramparts maximum post-bonus in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-law (HRM by Design). The apartment building looks like it is 16 stories which must be very close to 49 meters. I seem to remember reading that it is within the HRM_by_Design limits.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7994/citadelareaheightlimits.jpg

fenwick16

Jan 8, 2012, 7:58 PM

The Halifax area will look like crane city this year with Mayor Kelly predicting $1 billion in building permits and all the highrises that have been proposed. I remember Calgary being referred to as crane city in the 1970's. Maybe Halifax is on the verge of taking off (many of the anti-development voices are being drowned out with positive development news, I hope it continues).

someone123

Jan 8, 2012, 8:09 PM

Thanks for posting that. Presumably the apartments were set at 16 storeys because that would come in just under 49 m. I think 49 m is way too conservative for the Cogswell area but for this proposal the height limit seems to have worked out.

I think 2012 will be a good year for construction. I don't think 100% of projects will move forward but for the downtown area we have a few possibilities:

-Citadel hotel redevelopment
-Drum condos
-Waterside Centre
-Nova Centre
-Clyde Street lots
-Fenwick
-Perhaps the Roy Building

If even 3 or 4 of those move forward it will be a lot of construction for downtown Halifax, particularly when you take into account the projects already under construction like the new library and CCA addition. Halifax is a small city so it doesn't take much to improve the downtown substantially.

fenwick16

Jan 8, 2012, 8:24 PM

If even 3 or 4 of those move forward it will be a lot of construction for downtown Halifax, particularly when you take into account the projects already under construction like the new library and CCA addition. Halifax is a small city so it doesn't take much to improve the downtown substantially.

I look forward to seeing the Cogswell Interchange torn down and have the downtown area re-integrated with the Northend. With the Spring Garden Road developments on the south side and condo/commercial developments in the Northend, the downtown area would define a much larger area.

cormiermax

Jan 8, 2012, 8:55 PM

I was wondering, once the interchange is torn down does anyone think the foundations of the former buildings will still be there? Iv always thought it would be a great place to rebuild that area and for Halifax to have a proper heritage district, similar to what Quebec city did in the 70s.

Keith P.

Jan 8, 2012, 11:19 PM

cormiermax

Jan 9, 2012, 12:19 AM

There's a difference between faux-heritage and heritage reconstruction, look at Louisburg and Quebec City for examples.

RyeJay

Jan 9, 2012, 2:46 AM

:previous:

Heritage reconstruction is a good idea, especially with regard to tourism, but I doubt there's a push for this currently. Haligonians, I've gathered, are craving novelty. People are really looking forward to the completion of the iconic King's Wharf tower, for example.

Halifax has plenty of older building-types. I'm hoping for some ultra-new building designs soon to contrast with what we've already built.

alps

Jan 9, 2012, 3:45 AM

I wouldn't mind the idea of incorporating some old-looking reconstruction into the mix. For example, it might be beneficial to extend Granville Street northward with buildings of a complementary style that double as podiums for larger modern buildings behind.

Even though Halifax has many old buildings there aren't any streetscapes as cohesive (http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=newcastle&hl=en&ll=54.972318,-1.612201&spn=0.002469,0.004726&sll=44.649727,-63.548698&sspn=0.097942,0.151234&vpsrc=6&hnear=Newcastle+Upon+Tyne,+Tyne+and+Wear,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=54.972015,-1.61195&panoid=UxGELpMyGLt7sQH1f02iFw&cbp=12,144.46,,0,0) as Granville, and if they could build off that without turning it into Disneyland, and ensuring the spaces wouldn't sit idle it could turn out well, like Rue St. Jean in Quebec City.

Modern is fine too, I just hope they integrate the streets together well. Granville obviously isn't working as a dead end and it might be worth somehow redesigning the International Centre or whatever that neverending proposal on the triangular lot is called.

RyeJay

Jan 9, 2012, 3:58 AM

someone123

Jan 9, 2012, 5:52 AM

It's always tricky to do that sort of thing because the 100% reproduction is expensive and the 90% reproduction is cheesy. "Heritage-style" sandstone coloured precast panels are insufficient for example. Brick and stone podiums with glass upper floors could look great. Really you want a good architect who can capture the local setting and architectural idioms while using modern materials.

In terms of making this area successful I think it mostly comes down to having an intensive mix of desirable uses and providing useful connectivity for pedestrians. Style and height are less important. People unfortunately have a way of discussing 4 vs. 16 floors or glass vs. Victorian vs. faux Aztec designs while missing the important parts.

Interchange aside I think that the Citadel hotel redevelopment itself plus the Trinity site might go a lot way toward bringing the North End and downtown together. It's not hard to imagine one strip going from Brunswick up Cogswell to Gottingen. The connection to Barrington is more tenuous but I'm not sure how much you get shoppers walking that far anyway. An extended Gottingen would be a roughly 5/6 block retail strip, which is a good length.

For the Triangle lands I think a mixed-use tower with some residential, some office, and an improved transit terminal would be great for that area.

q12

Jan 17, 2012, 1:51 PM

Saying sayonara to the Citadel Hotel

JENNIFER TAPLIN
METRO HALIFAX
Published: January 17, 2012 2:27 a.m.
Last modified: January 17, 2012 8:34 a.m.

When the last guest checks out of the Citadel Halifax Hotel this morning, the doors will be locked behind them forever.

After 48 years, the hotel at 1960 Brunswick St. is shutting down on Tuesday to make way for a two-tower hotel complex and an apartment building.

More here:
http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/1073248--saying-sayonara-to-the-citadel-hotel

fenwick16

Jan 20, 2012, 3:15 AM

According to the allnovascotia.com, the Citadel Hotel proposal was approved by the HRM Design Review Committee with only two minor changes - transparent material on one retaining wall, and a requirement to hide a transformer by surrounding it with brick and landscaping. The architectural firm's representative stated that "a wrecking ball is right around the corner."

The Chronicle Herald also reports that this has been unanimously approved by the Design Review Committee: (source and full story - http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/53787-design-committee-approves-citadel-hotel-redevelopment)
Design committee approves Citadel Hotel redevelopment
January 19, 2012 - 8:53pm By REMO ZACCAGNA Business Reporter

The municipal Design Review Committee unanimously approved a $60-million redevelopment of the Citadel Hotel Halifax on Thursday night.
.
.
.

RyeJay

Jan 20, 2012, 4:31 AM

I enjoy how accelerated this project is. With a wrecking ball around the corner to kill the existing building, cranes to build the proposed towers will not be far off.

worldlyhaligonian

Jan 20, 2012, 6:11 AM

The fact that this one got under the radar with such proximity to citadel hill is a huge win for downtown. It effectively adds more people to this part of downtown, we get 3 towers, the street presence will be much improved, and general awesomeness.

If the trinity site ever gets a tower, this whole area will be a nice flow into the north-end, which may get some towers of its own... at least its empty lots seem to be getting built on.

someone123

Jan 20, 2012, 7:30 AM

Yeah, this will be a great development. This is one of those sites that for years I wished would be redeveloped. The library and Nova Centre sites are two others. The downtown is making a lot of progress lately and I think it will be noticeably transformed over the next couple years.

It does seem to me that HbD has removed much of the contention around building heights. The developers have heights they can plan for ahead of time and if they stick to them they don't seem to have to fight. I wish the allowed heights were taller but I still think this is better than the old roulette model. It makes far, far more sense to argue over heights during a planning phase so that there can be clear rules when developers make plans and submit proposals.

halifaxboyns

Jan 20, 2012, 9:27 AM

I think this maybe where we're seeing staff getting used to the HbD process and now things are starting to 'groove'. We had the same problem out here with the new land use bylaw transition. A rush of permit activity before the transition and then things took an extra couple of months once the new LUB came in because it was a lot of new concepts - it was essentially a completely new document, with new everything really.

It took at least a good year before staff was good to go with understanding it from memory, but now it's working pretty good.

SekishikiMeikaiHa

Jan 24, 2012, 3:01 AM

I work in the building next door. Hope to see some action soon!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6752648503_84c1789f39_b.jpg

fenwick16

Jan 24, 2012, 3:51 AM

It will be interesting to see the wrecking ball (I wonder if wrecking balls are still used in the HRM?). If not, it will still be interesting to see it being demolished.

resetcbu1

Jan 24, 2012, 3:55 AM

:previous: Maybe KABOOOOOOM?:D

someone123

Jan 24, 2012, 5:01 AM

Hmm.. maybe this will be the tallest building ever demolished in Halifax.

kph06

Jan 24, 2012, 10:07 AM

Hmm.. maybe this will be the tallest building ever demolished in Halifax.

The old infirmary was probably around the same height, although the main building was more uniform so that probably made it easier to tear down the way they did it.

I remember as a kid watching the NFB building and the building where Barrington Gate is getting torn down after their fires. I know one for sure was a wrecking ball, pretty sure it was the NFB, I've never seen it used since.

Jonovision

Jan 24, 2012, 1:28 PM

I just got an apartment overlooking this site. I'll have lots of updates once things start rolling here.

someone123

Jan 24, 2012, 7:15 PM

The old infirmary was probably around the same height, although the main building was more uniform so that probably made it easier to tear down the way they did it.

I remember as a kid watching the NFB building and the building where Barrington Gate is getting torn down after their fires. I know one for sure was a wrecking ball, pretty sure it was the NFB, I've never seen it used since.

Actually I have a picture of the Queen Street infirmary here in a pile of old photos I'd like to scan at some point. The taller part was 8 storeys and the shorter part was 5-6 storeys. The Citadel looks more like 10-12 storeys, although the Infirmary may have been around the same size overall.

FuzzyWuz

Jan 25, 2012, 1:30 AM

:previous: Maybe KABOOOOOOM?:D

There's a law or bylaw against using explosives to demo buildings on the peninsula I think.

kph06

Jan 25, 2012, 2:53 AM

Actually I have a picture of the Queen Street infirmary here in a pile of old photos I'd like to scan at some point. The taller part was 8 storeys and the shorter part was 5-6 storeys. The Citadel looks more like 10-12 storeys, although the Infirmary may have been around the same size overall.

Okay, I think I am picturing it larger in my memory. Its surprising how few photos are around of it. You keep tempting me with talk of these old photos, when are they from? Every couple months I try to scan any online image source I can think of for old construction photos from Halifax, usually finding something new, but they are scarce. I am hoping the old Halifax Development Thread becomes available at some point.

someone123

Jan 25, 2012, 8:54 AM

My old pbase galleries are still up here: http://pbase.com/halifaxphoto/

"Miscellaneous" has a lot of development-related photos. The oldest I think are from around 2002/2003. Unfortunately in many cases the quality is quite poor and there are a lot of photos I don't have anymore. I remember taking pictures of the Bishop's Landing construction site for example, the construction of the hotel at Hollis and Salter, etc.

The first shots I put on SSP were back in 2001 or 2002 and were taken on film (it is weird to think that they're now 10 years old!). I haven't taken any photos much older than that. A few interesting ones I have are:

-View from Citadel looking North across Commons from 2001 (looks like the condo/apartment on the west side of Cunard and Agricola is under construction). Lots of new buildings are missing.
-A couple of views looking South that include Park Lane pre-Martello, taken just after the Garrison Watch building was built at the corner of Dresden Row and Sackville.
-YWCA on Hollis.
-Infirmary.
-Victoria Apartments at Hollis/Morris, which actually did not change much until very recently.
-Garden Crest construction site at the corner of Summer and Spring Garden.

It would be very interesting to assemble "then and now" pairs of pictures. Some corners of Halifax have changed a lot over the past decade! In a few more decades photos like the one of the Citadel Hotel above will be very interesting to some younger people who won't even remember that building.

SekishikiMeikaiHa

Jan 26, 2012, 4:18 AM

Pete Crawford

Jan 28, 2012, 10:24 PM

Sorry I might be behind on the information, but since this project seems to be moving so quickly, are there set dates yet for the demolition and beginning of construction work on the new buildings?

Northend Guy

Feb 1, 2012, 8:58 PM

Super excited!!!:D I just saw renderings for the apartment building. Unfortunately I can't share yet, but for those of you are consistently saying 'I wish the VIC could be higher', well, if the renderings are accurate, this building is going to be the VICx2. Similarities are numerous - windows appear to be similar in quantity and size, white exterior finish on the tower (no red balconies though), lop-sided-v-shaped roof, similar treatment with first several floors of exterior finishes be something different (could not tell what), and 17 floors high (from the lower side of the lot).

There is going to be a 5ish level above ground parkade on the site, but the ground level appears to be shops.

Overall, this whole development is shaping up quite nicely! Will post something if I can.

Hali87

Feb 1, 2012, 9:08 PM

It would be cool if they did the balconies in a different colour of glass, either way it'll look interesting having two buildings that look identical from afar on either end of downtown.

worldlyhaligonian

Feb 1, 2012, 11:15 PM

someone123

Feb 1, 2012, 11:27 PM

Hmm.. I remember seeing a Vic-like rendering. I guess it must have been in AllNS or something. It's not up on their website.

RyeJay

Feb 2, 2012, 12:08 AM

:) Does anyone have this rendering?

kph06

Feb 2, 2012, 1:15 AM

There is this document Dmajackson posted a couple pages back. (http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/drc/documents/120112drc71.pdf) Page 24 has an elevation and Page 34 has a rendering. The document is a black and white photo copy of the original, so I assume Northendguy has seen the original color renderings? From the few renderings on the project website that show the apartment in the background - I thought it had a bland color/material scheme, looked like it was from the 80's or 90's. Hopefully the color versions of these renderings show a different look.

worldlyhaligonian

Feb 2, 2012, 1:54 AM

The Vic's big brother:
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee453/worldlyhaligonian/1.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee453/worldlyhaligonian/2.jpg

And another cool shot of the site from the wind study:

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee453/worldlyhaligonian/3.jpg

someone123

Feb 2, 2012, 2:22 AM

spaustin

Feb 2, 2012, 2:30 AM

Interesting. It's definitely somewhat Vic like. It looks like it misses the Vic's best feature though, the street front. The Vic does an amazing job of appearing at street-level to be several human-scaled buildings. Too often with modern buildings, because of their greater size, you just get one long fairly uninteresting expanse. The Vic avoids this by varying the setbacks and materials to almost appear like several different buildings for the first four storeys. Would be nice to see that approach used more often around town. That aside, it's hard not to like this project as it'll intensify the site, add more residents to the Downtown and will help reconnect the North End.

RyeJay

Feb 2, 2012, 4:46 AM

As the wind study model shows, these should add some depth to the northern end of the downtown skyline. They will be a bit taller than the apartments and will fill in gaps between Purdy's Wharf and the Scotia Square towers. If something good goes up on the Trinity site it will also pair well with these buildings.

Waterside should look good too. Soon this end of town won't be all 70s and 80s buildings.

This will look amazing from the MacDonald Bridge!

The Waterside will contribute a different layer of height. With many of the towers reaching near the same height, the downtown is developing more of a shelf-effect.

Northend Guy

Feb 2, 2012, 2:13 PM

The document is a black and white photo copy of the original, so I assume Northendguy has seen the original color renderings? From the few renderings on the project website that show the apartment in the background - I thought it had a bland color/material scheme, looked like it was from the 80's or 90's. Hopefully the color versions of these renderings show a different look.

Yes, I did get a quick look at the renderings - unfortunatlely I did not get to mull over them for long. I did get a bit of a look at the finish materials list this morning though (though it is a bit vague at this point) Looks like white 'wall panels' (appears to be insulated aluminum type) for the tower section, darker 'wall panel' or precast panel (could be good, could be bad) for the midrise section of the tower & brick for the 3-4 levels before the tower setback. The materials list I saw is a little vague as to color, but I thought the renderings were quite good. Don't get me wrong - I don't think that this will have the same street appeal that the VIC has, but it certainly seems to have better street appeal than other properties in the area. I suspect that the street level appeal of this development will be similar to what is at the Trillium. The main attraction of this building will be the view from...wait for it...the citadel!! Now that is exciting!

And khp06 - the rendering you were referring to with the apartment in the background is NOT at all what the apartment renderings look like. (thank goodness...)

SekishikiMeikaiHa

Feb 21, 2012, 12:07 AM

A fence went up today:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/6912818673_26b341b56e_b.jpg

fenwick16

Feb 21, 2012, 1:30 AM

Thanks for the update. I am looking forward to seeing the demolition pictures.

someone123

Feb 21, 2012, 1:52 AM

Jstaleness

Feb 21, 2012, 1:53 AM

Are explosives planned for this demo? That would be cool to see instead of the slower wrecking ball type demos.

RyeJay

Feb 21, 2012, 2:56 AM

They haven't the time to waste, considering they want the hotel open for the fall season of 2013.

resetcbu1

Feb 21, 2012, 3:15 AM

They haven't the time to waste, considering they want the hotel open for the fall season of 2013.

Let's hope the ecconomy doesn't nosedive before that time....

worldlyhaligonian

Feb 21, 2012, 5:52 PM

This is going pretty quickly. I am optimistic, but can't help being a little worried that some bureaucratic snag will result in this site sitting empty for 30 years. HRM staff are probably going through the archives as we speak. :)

Right, it was supposed to be a massive children's playground this entire time, sorry developer, we need to maximize green space.

halifaxboyns

Feb 21, 2012, 6:42 PM

Right, it was supposed to be a massive children's playground this entire time, sorry developer, we need to maximize green space.

Come on guys - play nice. I have to defend planners, because I'm one (just not HRM). I'm sure this project will go through fine, I'm hearing that staff is really getting the new rules well understood and the timelines are improving quite quickly. From what I hear, most of the applications through HbD are hitting the timelines, with some exceptions where applicants need more information or were missing info.