Halifax's Street Network

[Dmajackson]

HIGHWAY 101 - MARGESON DRIVE INTERCHANGE & EXTENSION | UNDERWAY (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=168806))
HIGHWAY 102 - LARRY UTECK BOULEVARD INTERCHANGE | COMPLETED - 2010 (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=161843))
HIGHWAY 102 - WASHMILL LAKE DRIVE UNDERPASS & EXTENSION | COMPLETED - 2011 (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=174823))
HIGHWAY 107 - BURNSIDE EXPRESSWAY | PROPOSED (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163187))
HIGHWAY 107 - CHERRY BROOK BYPASS | THEORETICAL (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201595))
HIGHWAY 113 - HAMMONDS PLAINS BYPASS | PROPOSED (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=177801))

HALIFAX AREA ROUNDABOUTS (THREAD (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180317))

[fenwick16]

There certainly are some very interesting street layouts in the Halifax area, undoubtedly because of the topography.

I have noticed in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) that newer residential areas have streets purposely laid out in unusual configurations to slow traffic down and to create more interesting, cozy neighbourhoods. Industrial areas tend to be more grid-like. For example, a newer neighbourhood in Mississauga - newer Mississauga (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=mississauga&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Mississauga,+Peel+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario&gl=ca&ll=43.528607,-79.683301&spn=0.011668,0.033023&t=h&z=16) versus older Toronto (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=mississauga&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Mississauga,+Peel+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario&gl=ca&ll=43.651851,-79.414845&spn=0.023288,0.066047&t=h&z=15)

Mississauga has fairly well laid out main through-fairs with winding, twisting side streets.

At the opposite end of the country, the high density areas of Vancouver seem to be grid-like but they also have suburban Coquitlim which is certainly not (I have been to Vancouver and Coquitlim a few times and I thought that it was a beautiful urban area) - Vancouver area (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=vancouver&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Vancouver,+Greater+Vancouver+Regional+District,+British+Columbia&gl=ca&ll=49.291546,-122.812042&spn=0.167939,0.528374&t=h&z=12)

[beyeas]

I have visited many cities in North America and in no other place have I seen anything like North Park @ Cogswell, the Dartmouth side of the MacDonald, or the Windsor Street Exchange just to name a few.


Simms Corner in Saint John NB is similar if not worse, as there are not even stop lights at that corner, just mass chaos.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Simms+Corner,+Saint+John,+New+Brunswick&aq=3&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=36.888786,78.398438&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Simms+Corner,+St+John,+St+John+County,+New+Brunswick&ll=45.256643,-66.092516&spn=0.002447,0.004785&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.256726,-66.092438&panoid=5NTvQQyFldKBrgP2GP8DBw&cbp=12,191.56,,0,0

[kwajo]

Don't hate on Simms corner, it's one of our best oddity attractions!

[terrynorthend]

Don't hate on Simms corner, it's one of our best oddity attractions!

Odd yes, but simply unsafe, especially during the high tourism season with confused out of town drivers rolling around.

[beyeas]

Odd yes, but simply unsafe, especially during the high tourism season with confused out of town drivers rolling around.

Confused, and holding their noses as they drive by the pulp mill. :haha:

[MonctonRad]

I hate Simm's Corner. That's the main reason why I hardly ever take the Reversing Falls Bridge. :yuck:

Wasn't there a plan out there to redesign this intersection?

BTW - this thread has been officially hijacked. Five out of the seven posts so far are about an arcane intersection in Saint John!!

[beyeas]

ok... well the segue back to Hali is that there is certainly a similarity between cities like SJ and Hfx in terms of the challenges of laying down roads on rocky hilly coastal areas that aren't large spaces. You end up with very little grid, and lots of wandering roads with weird intersections that take in all kinds of other wandering roads.

Quite different from when I lived in the southwest US, where the cities are all laid out as perfect grids aligned with the mountain range.

It is also a big challenge in cities like Hfx that had the core downtown roads designed pre-automobile, where as cities in the west tend to have more "modern" road layouts.

That doesn't excuse some of the crap intersections we have (which are often just poor planning), but certainly explains some of the oddities of our roadways.

[kwajo]

I hate Simm's Corner. That's the main reason why I hardly ever take the Reversing Falls Bridge. :yuck:

Wasn't there a plan out there to redesign this intersection?

BTW - this thread has been officially hijacked. Five out of the seven posts so far are about an arcane intersection in Saint John!!


Yeah there was a plan to replace it with a roundabout, but then another study determined that there wasn't enough physical space to put one in, so they have a new alternative using traffic lights I believe, but it's behind schedule in its implementation.

[Dmajackson]

As a full-time worker in Burnside I have spent a lot of time thinking of what can be done to improve the area. As a result here is a map of my ideas so far. Only changes are shown (areas kept the same aren't depicted). The map is mainly for the Windmill Road section;

Burnside Roads (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=216313966281071840285.0004a5c706aa2280764ef&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=44.69602,-63.601288&spn=0.001236,0.00327&t=h&z=19)

[Dmajackson]

Found a map showing the proposed widening of Joe Howe Drive from the 102 overpass to Scott Avenue. I'm not really against this since it is a choke point right now but I am glad to see the funds go more important projects for the time being;

Joe Howe Turning Lanes (http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf)

[Keith P.]

Found a map showing the proposed widening of Joe Howe Drive from the 102 overpass to Scott Avenue. I'm not really against this since it is a choke point right now but I am glad to see the funds go more important projects for the time being;

Joe Howe Turning Lanes (http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf)

This is badly needed and would bring a major improvement to a very badly-designed and overloaded section of Joe Howe for minimal money. Are you suggesting it has been shelved? If so, what is the rationale? his should be near the top of any list of improvement projects.

[Jstaleness]

This would be such a huge improvement. Hopefully the southbound inner lane at Joe Howe and Mumford can also become a turn/Thru lane. Needless lane changing occurs there.

[Jstaleness]

There was some work going on in that area this morning. Does anyone have info on whether or not it is the widening of Joe Howe?

[Dmajackson]

Found a map showing the proposed widening of Joe Howe Drive from the 102 overpass to Scott Avenue. I'm not really against this since it is a choke point right now but I am glad to see the funds go more important projects for the time being;

Joe Howe Turning Lanes (http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf)

Stakes are in the ground and work should start anytime on this improvement.

Maybe they'll finally tack out the damn rail tracks in the intersections! :hell:

[RyeJay]

Tourist traffic creating gridlock on Halifax streets


CTV Atlantic
Published Thursday, Jul. 19, 2012 6:49PM ADT

If you plan to visit downtown Halifax over the next few days, you should probably plan ahead.

Thousands of people are converging on the waterfront for the Tall Ships Festival, creating gridlock on downtown streets.

“You have to know what one-way street you want to go down and as you're going down, you have to watch for pedestrian traffic, you have to be careful of construction and you have to have eyes in the back of your head and everything,” says spectator Wanda Johnson.

Navigating through a maze of traffic has pushed people to weigh their options.

“I think I'm staying the night the whole weekend so I won't have to drive downtown,” says spectator Keith Johnson.

Along with the traffic congestion comes parking problems. Some spots will even be temporarily blocked off.

Link (http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/tourist-traffic-creating-gridlock-on-halifax-streets-1.885760#)

[Keith P.]

Traffic is a nightmare the last few days. HRM allowing road construction downtown during all of this does not help matters. Unlike other years, Metro Transit is not running any special "Tall Ships" shuttles downtown either, which adds to the traffic woes. Even downtown Dartmouth is short of parking as people try parking there and taking the ferry - no dice.

WDC seems to be beating this tall ships horse to death. Having them here every couple of years really takes away the cachet. This year's crop of arrivals is not very impressive either. Seems pretty second-string although the stuff going on in support on the Waterfront is still drawing crowds. I'm steering clear.

[resetcbu1]

WDC seems to be beating this tall ships horse to death. Having them here every couple of years really takes away the cachet. This year's crop of arrivals is not very impressive either. Seems pretty second-string although the stuff going on in support on the Waterfront is still drawing crowds. I'm steering clear.

having been in Calgary for near a decade now I can understand,every year come Stampede I high tail'er out of here . loses it's luster after awhile.:shrug:

[halifaxboyns]

Having been away from Halifax for so long, I actually don't mind the fact tall ships would be every 3 years. I'm annoyed my work schedule didn't allow me to go this year. As for Stampede, I look at that and things like Tall Ships for the tourism and spin off in terms of economy (not just for the enjoyment). Stampede was huge this year...I wouldn't be upset if Halifax had an event like that every year. The spin offs would be great.

Keith does make a good point about the roads though. Poorly timed construction doesn't help and some friends were saying that MT hadn't really done a good job at advertising the fact that there was different services for Tall Ships. But Keith is right, there doesn't seem to be any 'special' services as far as their website is concerned.
Metro Transit Tall Ship Service (http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/SpecialEvents2008.html)

[haligonia]

Metro Transit isn't doing anything, but the DHBC is running a free shuttle: http://downtownhalifax.ca/index.php/news/big-blue-bus/

[eastcoastal]

Traffic is a nightmare the last few days. HRM allowing road construction downtown during all of this does not help matters. Unlike other years, Metro Transit is not running any special "Tall Ships" shuttles downtown either, which adds to the traffic woes. Even downtown Dartmouth is short of parking as people try parking there and taking the ferry - no dice.

WDC seems to be beating this tall ships horse to death. Having them here every couple of years really takes away the cachet. This year's crop of arrivals is not very impressive either. Seems pretty second-string although the stuff going on in support on the Waterfront is still drawing crowds. I'm steering clear.

I parked north of the Common on Thursday and walked down to the waterfront - easy-peasy. The ships are noticeably fewer and smaller than in the past, but there are movies and fireworks every night and Sugah is open late scooping ice cream. I'm not going to climb aboard any of the ships, but plan on checking out some of the food-type-stuff that is planned for the weekend, and I am looking forward to seeing the symphony play Tchaicovsky's 1812 Overture with live cannons and churchbells and fireworks tonight.

[Keith P.]

I parked north of the Common on Thursday and walked down to the waterfront - easy-peasy.

That's a long haul for someone with any kind of even minor disability, especially getting back up the hill. The shuttle they are running should make a much bigger circle and encompass this area rather than just concentrating on Barrington and Lower Water.

[scooby074]

That's a long haul for someone with any kind of even minor disability, especially getting back up the hill. The shuttle they are running should make a much bigger circle and encompass this area rather than just concentrating on Barrington and Lower Water.

Yes!! They should have ran shuttles to the further areas of the city. Up spring garden for one. Perhaps to the outskirts for parking.

I was fortunate and got a great spot in Dartmouth, and took the ferry over. Painless.

Thank god the ferries were running load and go! Even then they were stuffed.

[Dmajackson]

In Calgary there are some interesting road features that caught my attention. Ones in particular are bus gates and vehicle traps (https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=51.132292,-114.071526&spn=0.001177,0.00327&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.132292,-114.071526&panoid=_x76QS5XW7C8Lkmaz7fPug&cbp=12,10,,0,2.58). We don't seem to have these on the East Coast so I was wondering what you guys think of them and if they should be installed in select locations around Halifax. I could only think of one spot;

Ashdale Avenue - Under the 102 it could stop cars avoiding Joe Howe. A gate could work now for the fire station on the street and if desired a trap could be installed if buses are rerouted to avoid the congestion.

The general rule of thumb is a vehicle trap results in minor car damage and tow truck fees, a gate if being watched results in a $170 fine and demerit points. Calgary Police don't have to do speeding tickets very often so these traps are their favourite stakeout spots.

I should point out while not necessarily legal bicycles can get through the vehicle traps. Some gates also have bike paths so only motorized private vehicles tend to get stuck. Emergency vehicles along with buses have remotes for the gates.

[someone123]

Maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't make sense to me. Is the purpose of the trap that buses can get through it but cars can't? Why not just install a camera (like a red light camera) and give out fines and demerit points? It seems worse to have the trap, even for the buses, because occasionally you might have a car stuck in there, blocking the road. Even worse, if a cyclist or motorcycle speeds through there somebody could get injured.

[Dmajackson]

^Cameras could work as well. That's how speeding tickets are given out in Calgary. There's usually a camera sign to deter people and if that doesn't work the fine is in the mail the next day.

[Keith P.]

I don't get it. Vehicle traps? For what purpose? They cause damage? What's next, mining the road? Crazy.

I think the vehicles should organize themselves and get "traffic planner traps" in place somewhere.

[fenwick16]

Traffic traps (pits) seem to be extreme in nature. Also, there is a simpler system; a row of "traffic spikes" - http://www.entryparkingposts.com/. Cars travelling in the correct direction just depress the spikes. Cars travelling in the opposite direction will have their tires deflated.

I see traffic spikes very often at United States' car rental facilities. Luckily they aren't common in Canada. I always get an uneasy feeling when I see them. It makes such facilities seem like a dangerous place to be.

[fenwick16]

Stakes are in the ground and work should start anytime on this improvement.

Maybe they'll finally tack out the damn rail tracks in the intersections! :hell:

Regarding Dmajackson's post (about the Joseph Howe turning lanes) from a couple of months ago, how is this proceeding - http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf ?

[Keith P.]

Regarding Dmajackson's post (about the Joseph Howe turning lanes) from a couple of months ago, how is this proceeding - http://halifax.ca/traffic/documents/JoeHoweturnlanes-PROJECTPLAN.pdf ?

As per usual, it got off to a fast start. Now it seems to have ground to a halt. Traffic has been atrocious there during the project and HRM seems totally unconcerned with getting it finished. Plus I hear that are going to install nat gas lines on Joe Howe starting this week so god knows how bad things will be when that happens as well.

[scooby074]

I like the idea of "bus only" lanes and street exits, however the "Bus traps" mentioned would hardly work now, what with all the large vehicles like SUV's and pickups running around.

Most of them have enough ground clearance and/or wide enough track to go right through the trap.

I like automatic bollards though. Watch this to see them in action. Try not to laugh i know I did..:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Cw0QJU8ro

[Dmajackson]

Friday, Nov. 9, 2012 (Halifax, NS) – On Saturday, Nov. 10 and Monday, Nov. 12, Black and McDonald and associated sub-contractors will install sections of underground electrical conduits across Windmill Road between Wright Avenue and Dawn Drive. This work is required to support the future installation of a traffic control intersection.

-----------------

I'm not surprised with this project since Windmill Road is the busiest artery in Halifax. There will also be stoplights at Ralston Avenue in the near future (for Harbour Isle).

The only thing that worries me is bus priority. Hopefully HRM Traffic has planned accordingly and will be installing priority lights and bus queue jumps particularly in the inbound lanes (outbound just needs signage). The also need to install "red light" cameras at all intersections along this stretch. Its very common for cars to just fly through the bus lane at Wright Avenue outbound.

I also hope they have solid plans for a centre boulevard near the stoplights. Driving down the centre-turn lane is a common way to skip the lineups. Having boulevards near the stoplights should reduce this event and make the road a lot safer (no head-on accidents near congestion points).

[Dmajackson]

No quick fix for rotary-area traffic
January 10, 2013 - 6:24pm BY LAURA FRASER CITY HALL REPORTER

The fuming drivers sitting in fuming cars along the Herring Cove Road will likely grow in number as condominiums continue to sprout up around the Armdale Rotary.

Halifax Regional Municipality has two ideas to combat the congestion — widening Herring Cove Road and the possibility of a fast ferry in Purcells Cove.

The change to the rotary is at least three years from realization. And the ferry service from Purcells Cove warrants a mention in the regional plan with Bedford but has not moved past that in more than five years.

...

(lfraser@herald.ca)

Read More: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/410234-no-quick-fix-for-rotary-area-traffic?utm_source=website&utm_medium=mobi&utm_campaign=full-site)

[fenwick16]

[I]No quick fix for rotary-area traffic
January 10, 2013 - 6:24pm BY LAURA FRASER CITY HALL REPORTER



(lfraser@herald.ca)

Read More: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/410234-no-quick-fix-for-rotary-area-traffic?utm_source=website&utm_medium=mobi&utm_campaign=full-site)

It seems as though a Northwest Arm bridge cannot even be mentioned.

[JET]

It seems as though a Northwest Arm bridge cannot even be mentioned.

is there a place that would go? Probably would be a NIMBY revolt.

[OldDartmouthMark]

is there a place that would go? Probably would be a NIMBY revolt.

Here? :D

http://i48.tinypic.com/103tlhh.jpg

Source: http://www.halifax.ca/archives/HarbourviewDriveProposal1963.html

[someone123]

I think there's a huge disconnect between the way traffic problems are viewed and tackled in Halifax and how bad they actually are. The traffic problems are really bad. Bad enough that expropriating a few houses is not actually a big deal if it makes a significant difference.

The Purcell's Cove ferry sounds like a non-starter to me, since council has spent a decade or more debating a similar solution for Bedford. A bridge is a simpler solution that most other cities would have already had by now; it could be attractive and it could be for buses, bikes, and pedestrians, not just cars. It could also tie in with a southern harbour crossing. It would be environmentally friendly because it would reduce travel distances and congestion. The tired argument about generating sprawl doesn't apply here because this is an already congested inner-city area, and Halifax's bad traffic has already led to the creation of lots of sprawl north of the city. If no more transportation capacity is added to the core, more and more development will simply move out to areas along the highways.

HRM should also be looking at some sort of rapid transit for the peninsula and inner suburban areas. It would be great to see some sort of small LRT system or streetcar-like services with a mix of dedicated ROWs and at-grade track. Service quality and capacity would be much higher than buses, and development spinoffs would be much higher.

[Hali87]

The Purcell's Cove ferry sounds like a non-starter to me, since council has spent a decade or more debating a similar solution for Bedford.

It would only make sense if there was also a plan for ambitious development in the immediate vicinity of Purcell's Cove, or for the creation of a new corridor linking Purcell's Cove directly to Spryfield, with ambitious development along this corridor. According to the regional plan, there are no such plans envisioned for the next 15+ years. Building a ferry terminal in Purcell's Cove without any of these things would make no sense, period. It would actually be one of the least useful points on the entire harbour for a ferry terminal. A transit-focused bridge would make a lot more sense at this point. I honestly can't understand why there is no bridge over the Arm. If traffic is a concern then don't allow cars to use it during peak hours. Simple. Another one for the WTF? thread I guess.

[bluenoser]

It's funny/sad that North West Arm Drive never even made it close to its namesake, although there is still a lot of land available to complete it without a ridiculous amount of expropriation. On the peninsula side, there is still a sizeable wooded area at the (abrupt) South end of Robie which could become the landing for the bridge and an interchange.

I'm grateful the downtown portion of 'Harbour Drive' was never completed although I've always wondered why, after all the work that went into the Cogswell Interchange, Barrington St. in the North was not turned into a decent highway, or at least straightened out a bit with four lanes - maybe even some trees and a median? It makes for a pretty unceremonious entrance to the peninsula after coming across the McKay Bridge.

[halifaxboyns]

One thing that I often wondered about the street setup (after Harbour Drive) was why the City didn't really think about the future and plan for it? They did with Bayers Road (for the most part) which is why most of the buildings are set so far back up to HSC. But there seems to have been a total lack of forethought elsewhere. I suspect that it was from what I call 'small town syndrome'. Many of the smaller towns/cities in Alberta have suffered it (specially Fort Mac). They figure it will take so long to grow into a bigger city, they don't need to think about it...and don't. So then when growth hits, it makes things so problematic.

Calgary (because it has cycles of peaks and valleys) has been used to this and has had some forethought and created a 'road bylaw table'. Along major roads, where transportation has identified the need to widen the road, there is an additional bylaw setback. That way, when a redevelopment happens, the additional space required for widening is taken. So the building would have to be setback the minimum setback between the 'road widening portion' (since that would be the new property line). But that only works when you have a lot of redevelopment - it might work in Halifax over the next few years but yet again only as redevelopment happens.

That other solution is expropriation. That has been used, but it politically a nightmare. Of course, it would've helped that with the regional plan (when it was approved) a transportation plan would've been approved with it, which surprised me. I blame that more on transportation than anyone else...plus it was the first time HRM did a regional plan, so it wasn't going to be perfect.

[someone123]

I think expropriation makes sense in cases where you have only a few properties holding up a public project that would benefit a large number of people. It has a bad name from past decades when it would be used to clear out entire neighbourhoods, but that is an extreme case. It might even be good to pay bonus money to displaced people, or give them extra time to find them new housing (or the city could even waive the fees on a new house or something). I doubt many people would be that upset about their house being expropriated if they received a similar one plus, say, $50,000. From the city's perspective, that cost would not be very significant for a major road project requiring some limited expropriations.

On top of the "small town syndrome", transportation planning in Halifax is also politicized to the point where it's driven by special interests rather than actual need. The city needs a separate transportation authority to handle bridges, roads, and transit based on cost-benefit.

[Keith P.]

It's funny/sad that North West Arm Drive never even made it close to its namesake, although there is still a lot of land available to complete it without a ridiculous amount of expropriation. On the peninsula side, there is still a sizeable wooded area at the (abrupt) South end of Robie which could become the landing for the bridge and an interchange.

Well, the Ecology Action Center and their operatives in the media and at City Hall have effectively made it nearly impossible to come out in favor of any improvement to the road network here. Look at the foolishness regarding fixing Bayers Road, a good portion of this was actually planned for way back in the 1940s. Yet we are still stuck witht he 1940 street configuration.

I'm grateful the downtown portion of 'Harbour Drive' was never completed although I've always wondered why, after all the work that went into the Cogswell Interchange, Barrington St. in the North was not turned into a decent highway, or at least straightened out a bit with four lanes - maybe even some trees and a median? It makes for a pretty unceremonious entrance to the peninsula after coming across the McKay Bridge.

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.

[Hali87]

Calgary (because it has cycles of peaks and valleys) has been used to this and has had some forethought and created a 'road bylaw table'. Along major roads, where transportation has identified the need to widen the road, there is an additional bylaw setback. That way, when a redevelopment happens, the additional space required for widening is taken. So the building would have to be setback the minimum setback between the 'road widening portion' (since that would be the new property line). But that only works when you have a lot of redevelopment - it might work in Halifax over the next few years but yet again only as redevelopment happens.

The one downside to this is that in the meantime there ends up being a lot of empty space. This is particularly noticeable in Edmonton, where I assume they take a similar approach. Everything there (roads in particular) seems wide to the point of total redundancy, and there is a lot of conspicuously unused land. I guess ultimately it's probably better than having to deal with expropriating land though.

[Hali87]

I doubt many people would be that upset about their house being expropriated if they received a similar one plus, say, $50,000. From the city's perspective, that cost would not be very significant for a major road project requiring some limited expropriations.

This sounds completely right, with the possible exception of the few who would feel pressured to "not sell out".

[Hali87]

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.

Subjective I guess. I actually really like coming off the MacDonald onto North Street. There might not be any stand-alone impressive buildings, but it's a cool streetscape.

[Drybrain]

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.

It's not really a main street, just a wide neighbourhood road and a minor traffic thoroughfare.

And while the overall aspect of the street is a bit run-down, some of the houses are quite lovely (https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=north+street+halifax&hl=en&ll=44.656932,-63.591657&spn=0.0087,0.046091&safe=off&hnear=North+St,+Halifax,+Nova+Scotia&gl=ca&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=44.656938,-63.591655&panoid=kyw8nzwojkyMVIDfGFNU-Q&cbp=11,99.54,,0,-2.6), actually.

But I've learned not to argue architectural aesthetics with you, so I'll just leave it alone.

[someone123]

Looks like a lot of properties around there have been fixed up lately. It used to be a really dumpy area. Some of the houses a bit farther north have always been well-kept and there are at least 3 new medium-sized buildings in the works for that stretch of Gottingen (North End Pub, Bilby Street, and St. Joseph's). Should be a great spot in a few years. It would be even better if it were tied in with the southern part of Gottingen with the Housing Trust buildings and Gottingen Terrace (or whatever might be built there).

[Keith P.]

Looks like a lot of properties around there have been fixed up lately. It used to be a really dumpy area. Some of the houses a bit farther north have always been well-kept and there are at least 3 new medium-sized buildings in the works for that stretch of Gottingen (North End Pub, Bilby Street, and St. Joseph's). Should be a great spot in a few years. It would be even better if it were tied in with the southern part of Gottingen with the Housing Trust buildings and Gottingen Terrace (or whatever might be built there).

I'm not referring to that section of Gottingen. I'm talking about North St., such as that awful block between Agricola and Robie.

[Dmajackson]

Request for a staff report going before Regional Council this Tuesday;

11.2 Councillor Whitman

“To request a staff report to review and consider the
implementation of a reversing lane on the Bedford Highway
from the Kearney Lake Road to Halifax during the morning
and evening rush hour traffic”

[fenwick16]

Request for a staff report going before Regional Council this Tuesday;

11.2 Councillor Whitman

“To request a staff report to review and consider the
implementation of a reversing lane on the Bedford Highway
from the Kearney Lake Road to Halifax during the morning
and evening rush hour traffic”

This sounds like a good idea. But it appears as though the Bedford Highway is only 3 lanes in this stretch. So wouldn't it be possible in only one direction (towards Bedford)? This would limit the practicality to evening rush hour traffic only (still a benefit though).

[Haligonian88]

This sounds like a good idea. But it appears as though the Bedford Highway is only 3 lanes in this stretch. So wouldn't it be possible in only one direction (towards Bedford)? This would limit the practicality to evening rush hour traffic only (still a benefit though).

Much of this stretch already has two lanes towards Bedford, the idea would be to make the middle lane go towards Halifax in the morning, so it would probably help morning rush hour more. I can see a problem though where the middle lane is used as a turning lane between Tremont and Flamingo Drive and there are several businesses in that stretch. If they can find a solution to that I think it would be a great proposal.

[Keith P.]

Much of this stretch already has two lanes towards Bedford, the idea would be to make the middle lane go towards Halifax in the morning, so it would probably help morning rush hour more. I can see a problem though where the middle lane is used as a turning lane between Tremont and Flamingo Drive and there are several businesses in that stretch. If they can find a solution to that I think it would be a great proposal.

This section was originally proposed to be 4 lanes when the road was rebuilt in the 1980s. Thanks to then Coun. Ron Hansen and the desire to save a few trees we ended up with the mess we currently have. The only real solution is to make it 4 lanes.

[ILoveHalifax]

This section was originally proposed to be 4 lanes when the road was rebuilt in the 1980s. Thanks to then Coun. Ron Hansen and the desire to save a few trees we ended up with the mess we currently have. The only real solution is to make it 4 lanes.

Or 5. Center turning lane.

Most of the time we are so short sighted. Just think of the cost to redo the whole road again.

[curnhalio]

It would be nice if the reversing lane concept continued all the way to the Fairview overpass so we can get a HOV lane in addition to the existing two lanes from MSVU up to the current bus access at the bottom of Main Ave. This could be a great opportunity to actually create an extended HOV section in traffic, and could be a springboard to increased usage of such lanes elsewhere in the city.

I look forward to when this report comes out to find out that this opportunity will be sufficiently wasted... :sly:

[Dmajackson]

I guess I should weigh in on what I posted. :)

The three lane reversing idea is doable from Kearney Lake to the four lane section at the very least.

Considering the proposed Motherlands Redevelopment I think the best option is to widen the Bedford Highway to four lanes to Seton Road (one property would have to be expropriated). A new signalized intersection would provide as a good conversion area and a bus jump lane outbound could be considered.

As for the four lane section a similar layout to Centre Street N here in Calgary could be investigated with three lanes (two traffic, one bus/HOV/bike) at peak hours and normal two-way flow at other times. The issues with this though would be left-turns outbound in the AM (protected light signals could work) and the conversion at the Fairview Overpass to normal flow.

Something like this for scheduling could work;

12am - 6am: One lane in each direction with two-way left turns in centre lane
6am - 10am: Two lanes IB, one lane OB, lengthened-protected OB movements at Bayview for left-turns.
10am - 2pm: One lane in each direction with two-way left turns in centre lane
2pm - 6pm: One lane IB, two lanes OB
6pm - 12am: One lane in each direction with two-way left turns in centre lane

The Kearney Lake intersection would need some work but it should be relatively minor. Bayview would require new signage and signals, and new stoplights would be installed at Seton Road.

All considered I think it would be worth it and, with enough funds available, HRM could expand the project to include transit and AT infrastructure along with streetscaping in Rockingham (I've always imagined that stretch as a small, compact urban neighbourhood centre).

[someone123]

It would be nice if the reversing lane concept continued all the way to the Fairview overpass so we can get a HOV lane in addition to the existing two lanes from MSVU up to the current bus access at the bottom of Main Ave. This could be a great opportunity to actually create an extended HOV section in traffic, and could be a springboard to increased usage of such lanes elsewhere in the city.

I look forward to when this report comes out to find out that this opportunity will be sufficiently wasted... :sly:

I don't think reversing lanes are far-fetched since the city already has them on the Macdonald bridge, Herring Cove Road, and maybe some other places.

I think they're great. HOV lanes are good too. Space is at a premium in many parts of the city so the existing roads should be used as efficiently as possible.

[rkannegi]

I'm glad to see that HRM will be weighing in the feasibility of an HOV lane in the reversible lane scenario for Bedford Highway. Bedford Highway is already well known for "sh*tting the bed" in rush hour.

Recently, I proposed an idea to HRM about looking into the feasibility of a ramp metering signal system for the weave zones that straddle the Fairview Overpass, whilst using such a system to provide HOV queue jumping. I would be willing to bet that such a system would likely eliminate the vast amount of weave-related fighting that currently goes on west of the Windsor Street Exchange signals.

In the meantime, aside from implementing the austere ramp metering measure that I proposed, HRM and NSTIR should look at a long-term option of extending Highway 111 to Highway 102 via a viaduct along Joseph Howe Drive and plan the new freeway and the twinned Mackay Bridge to have up to 2 HOV lanes in each direction, with a minimum of 1 HOV lane in each direction. If the Highway 111 ring road that I have proposed a while back in the Halifax Metro Ring Road System thread is ever built, I say that it should ideally have 2 HOV lanes in each direction, 2 or 3 general lanes in each direction, and ramp meters on all on-ramps that lead in from service interchanges, with no ramp meters on systems interchanges (systems interchange means a junction that ties two or more freeways together via high-speed ramps, while service interchange means connecting a freeway with a lesser road). The ring road's ramps can also have HOV lanes fitted on them or some ramps can even be totally HOV/Heavy Truck/Service-Vehicle-only.

Halifax Metro Ring Road System

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=184298

Queue jumping in my austere scenario would be from the westbound merge zone that egresses from the Windsor Street Exchange signals and from the Main Avenue bus-only lane, which I suggested be changed from a bus-only lane to an HOV-2 lane. HRM can make the right-hand northbound left turn lane and right-hand westbound through lane at the Windsor Street Exchange signals into HOV queue jump lanes. (The Lady Hammond approach can be easily re-striped to allow for this on the existing road infrastructure, where the westbound approach would consist of single left turn lanes at Kempt Road and at Windsor Street with a single general lane to the right of the left turn lanes with the HOV queue jump lane being a new lane that forms on the right edge between Kempt Road and Windsor Street.)

Ramp Meter Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_meter

HRM should look at a similar reversing lane scheme for Quinpool Road (HOV lane plus two general lanes in the peak direction and one general lane in the off-peak direction; one general lane and one HOV lane each way during the day-time interlude in between the morning and afternoon peaks; with roadside parking only allowed between 12AM and 6AM; with this all subject to adjustment for major events). Special lane markings will be required to accommodate the left turn lanes at Vernon/Quingate, with the emphasis on through traffic to deflect to the right to go around the shifting left turn lane. The left turn lane signals would be a white LED left curved arrow (same as a left turn lane control sign), with a red X facing traffic in the wrong direction to the left turn lane (unless it's a two-way left turn lane, which would be represented by a white LED representation of two interlocking curved left arrows (think of it as an LED version of the existing two-way left turn lane control sign that you would see hung overhead, i.e. what you see over Main Street in Dartmouth).

I have also suggested that HRM look into metering signals for the Armdale Roundabout too, given that it is one of the busiest roundabouts in North America. It currently carries about 57, 000 vehicles per day.

Roundabout metering signals:
capacity, performance and timing

http://www.sidrasolutions.com/Cms_Data/Contents/SIDRA/Folders/Resources/Articles/Articles/~contents/8F42VBXMGDFMNQ7N/Akcelik_RoundaboutMeteringSignals_6thISHC2011.pdf

Ultimately, for the entire HRM road system, I believe that HOV lanes will be needed within the ultimate widths of all roads of class Arterial and above (at least one HOV lane in each direction), with HOV lanes also provided on major collectors when it is possible to do so. The road classes stated here are based on the proposed HRM Regional Plan that is scheduled to be passed this fall. To all other cities: In regards to this specific comment on universal HOV lane implementation on all major roads, regardless if higher orders of transit already exist, start taking notes.

I will say, as an aside, that I think the internet here is experiencing gridlock similar to the gridlock that is plaguing the Canadian road system, given that I have seen a spike in loading failures on many websites even when I access the internet from different locations. They need to severely clamp down on spam and excessive advertising because it's getting close to seizing up the entire internet (at least from what I'm seeing), where telecommunications infrastructure upgrades are currently unable to keep up.

Cheers,

Richard Kannegiesser

[OldDartmouthMark]

Absolutely something needs to be done to reduce the bottleneck at the Fairview overpass for any of this to work. The "the vast amount of weave-related fighting" is one of the biggest snags there as I can see, as many drivers try to get into the "fastest" lane to get them to the overpass and then have to cross over 3 or 4 lanes of gridlock to get to their exit. Meanwhile, people coming from Fairview are trying to cross over to the left to get to the bridge or Barrington. It can be chaos at times.

Plus, rail transit needs to be an integral part of the scenario. Make it efficient, attractive and convenient for people to leave their cars in the car park and they will use it. I know this topic has been beat to death, but it it so obvious it is painful.

Or... just leave it as is and build a glut of residential downtown (in all price ranges, not just $400K+) so that the folks who choose to work downtown and just can't stand the traffic will decide to live closer to their work. Include downtown Dartmouth in the plan combined with increased/more frequent ferry service and things should improve.

That being said, in Toronto terms we don't really have traffic! :D

:2cents:

[Keith P.]

That being said, in Toronto terms we don't really have traffic!

If we removed the unnecessary obstacles to flow that are created by poor design, neglect or simple intransigence - I refer to the Fairview Overpass, the uncontrolled left turns and lack of bus pullover on Joe Howe, the lack of adequate capacity on major routes ,the dumping of heavy traffic onto surface streets; the list is endless - then you would be correct. Tell it to the endless line of immobilized traffic I saw at rush hour today on the south end of Oxford St waiting to turn left onto Jubillee. They may still be there. Why they were there is a bit of a mystery - I assume downtown shortcutters.

[ILoveHalifax]

If we removed the unnecessary obstacles to flow that are created by poor design, neglect or simple intransigence - I refer to the Fairview Overpass, the uncontrolled left turns and lack of bus pullover on Joe Howe, the lack of adequate capacity on major routes ,the dumping of heavy traffic onto surface streets; the list is endless - then you would be correct. Tell it to the endless line of immobilized traffic I saw at rush hour today on the south end of Oxford St waiting to turn left onto Jubillee. They may still be there. Why they were there is a bit of a mystery - I assume downtown shortcutters.

If our city councillors were not so intend in putting all of us in buses and worked to correct the obstacles, as should be their jobs, we would correct some of the problems.

[q12]

This is what we will need on the Bedford highway, If we don't get some rail-based transit.

http://i44.tinypic.com/frvoo.jpg
http://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/06-14-hal3-speed-need-jh.jpg
http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/706493/police-say-no-need-for-need-for-speed-after-two-stunting-incidents/#

[Keith P.]

Looks perfect! Let's build it!

[OldDartmouthMark]

If we removed the unnecessary obstacles to flow that are created by poor design, neglect or simple intransigence - I refer to the Fairview Overpass, the uncontrolled left turns and lack of bus pullover on Joe Howe, the lack of adequate capacity on major routes ,the dumping of heavy traffic onto surface streets; the list is endless - then you would be correct. Tell it to the endless line of immobilized traffic I saw at rush hour today on the south end of Oxford St waiting to turn left onto Jubillee. They may still be there. Why they were there is a bit of a mystery - I assume downtown shortcutters.

Poor route choice? Accident? Isn't there a left-turn arrow at that intersection?

There are certainly many things that can be done to improve traffic flow (i.e. Fairview Overpass), but improving traffic flow isn't sexy these days. It's far more popular to complain about the evil, environment-destroying car drivers than to improve things for them (and as a result - everybody who commutes). Let's make it so difficult and costly to drive that people will be forced into less-pleasant modes of transport.

But the basic problem for traffic is the peninsula and its ancient (by Canadian standards) street layout. There are some snags that could be ironed out but it can never be completely "fixed" to make traffic flow smoothly, especially under ever-increasing traffic volumes. Don't know how many times I have to say it, but "great" transit (i.e. very convenient, efficient, comfortable, well laid-out, etc.) needs to be combined with some obvious traffic improvements to make the situation better than it is. Lure car drivers into taking transit by making it more attractive rather than berating them for choosing to drive. Alienating drivers by turning them into villains does nothing more than slow down progress by creating opposing sides in the argument.

Now, Keith, I'm sure you must have come back home after driving in Toronto and admitted to yourself that Halifax traffic is not so bad after all... ;)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Looks perfect! Let's build it!

Sounds good.

And, they could eliminate stunting charges by raising the speed limit to 150! :haha:

[halifaxboyns]

It couldn't be built because the Municipal Government Act (whoops - the Halifax Charter) does not allow you to create parcels which do not have any access. So a parcel, must by legislation, have some form of access.

Plus to widen the highway (which I think is a bad idea anyway because it will fill up with cars again anyway) you'd need to expropriate land - which is going to create an awful lot of non-conforming buildings. If you wanted to expand it to that wide, you would be better off expropriating the land completely (not portions of parcels), demo the buildings and then create access easements across the new parcels at regular intersection points.

So for example: If you expropriated all the land where Feed Nova Scotia is (the senior's facility) and a few others - you could then remove the buildings, widen the road and then create a true four way intersection at Flamingo that would provide access to the new re-configured parcels. Then, you'd register on the land title an access easement over each parcel so that while the parcel may appear to not have access, it does through the others. If that makes sense...

[OldDartmouthMark]

It couldn't be built because the Municipal Government Act (whoops - the Halifax Charter) does not allow you to create parcels which do not have any access. So a parcel, must by legislation, have some form of access.

Plus to widen the highway (which I think is a bad idea anyway because it will fill up with cars again anyway) you'd need to expropriate land - which is going to create an awful lot of non-conforming buildings. If you wanted to expand it to that wide, you would be better off expropriating the land completely (not portions of parcels), demo the buildings and then create access easements across the new parcels at regular intersection points.

So for example: If you expropriated all the land where Feed Nova Scotia is (the senior's facility) and a few others - you could then remove the buildings, widen the road and then create a true four way intersection at Flamingo that would provide access to the new re-configured parcels. Then, you'd register on the land title an access easement over each parcel so that while the parcel may appear to not have access, it does through the others. If that makes sense...

Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. It wouldn't be feasible given the lay of the land in that area, plus I agree it wouldn't really solve the problem.

I really think the actual solution lies somewhere between the extremes of adding 5 lanes or restricting cars to force transit usage. To sound like a broken record: efficient, convenient transit + re-engineering some obvious traffic snag areas = much better commuting for all. :)

[OldDartmouthMark]

BTW, here's a slightly humourous comparison of commuting methods in NYC, using google maps as a guide to walking, taking transit or driving.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/google-maps-comparo-public-transit-vs-driving-vs-walking-across-nyc-feature

Of course the car won (it's a car magazine, after all) but was also the most expensive, not surprisingly. However it is still an interesting look into the various modes of transportation and how to navigate in a big city.

Edit: An interesting take in the comments below the article...

If you want to really enjoy running in the city, run the New York City Marathon wearing your name on your chest. You'll get to visit all five boroughs with the full support of thousands of spectators lining the course who will call out your name and encouragement the whole way. You'll never experience anything like it anywhere else and you'll get into the best shape of your life doing it. :-)

I live in, and own a car in Manhattan and the car sits in a garage all week. I use public transportation, cabs or a bike depending on distance, weather and wardrobe needs. Only use the car when leaving the city because inner city car use is stupid expensive due to the cost of garaging if not your monthly garage and/or the inconvenience of trying to find available garage or street parking. If you don't have a chauffeur, the car is a sketchy choice. You had the fastest time in the car but if your journey had involved rush hour traffic, or a fender bender back up, it would have been a different story.

The high percentage choice is almost always the subways. Yes, at rush hour you can be packed like a sardine but even then they're fast, reliable and by far the fastest way to cover long distances in the city. When the streets are covered with snow, rain or jammed with cars, the subway gets you closer, faster. Not as cozy or comfy as a Bentley but then, what is?

Enjoyed the journey and your reporting. :-)

[W.Sobchak]

I was looking for coal and found gold. This is a tramway map of Halifax/Dartmouth 1946.

http://maps.library.utoronto.ca/datapub/digital/G_3434_H3_10_1945.jpg

[rkannegi]

Any word on what's going on with the lot occupied by Robie Foods on the southeast corner of Robie and Young? It was just demolished earlier today.

https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.659707,-63.602294&spn=0.000004,0.004117&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.659707,-63.602294&panoid=HwyHC8f0X6--QKeRbos6ag&cbp=12,110.79,,0,8.27

Is this building being expropriated for future widening of Young Street between Robie and Agricola or is this site merely being subject to real estate redevelopment? Now, I know that widening of Young Street through the Robie-Agricola block would run right through the newly-built Mother's Pizza over at the corner of Young & Agricola.

Cheers,

Richard Kannegiesser

[Keith P.]

Any word on what's going on with the lot occupied by Robie Foods on the southeast corner of Robie and Young? It was just demolished earlier today.

https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.659707,-63.602294&spn=0.000004,0.004117&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.659707,-63.602294&panoid=HwyHC8f0X6--QKeRbos6ag&cbp=12,110.79,,0,8.27

Is this building being expropriated for future widening of Young Street between Robie and Agricola or is this site merely being subject to real estate redevelopment?

I understand a new building for a payday loan outfit is to be constructed on the site.

Now, I know that widening of Young Street through the Robie-Agricola block would run right through the newly-built Mother's Pizza over at the corner of Young & Agricola.


That building should never have been permitted to be so close to the curb. Unfortunately this one probably will be also. That short stretch of Young is a real bottleneck but unfortunately HRM has an aversion to widening streets. They have missed a very real opportunity here. Even easing the corners would go a long way there.

[fenwick16]

I read an article in allnovascotia.com yesterday that grabbed my attention.

(source: allnovascotia.com, October 3rd edition) - an excerpt is hand typed below.
Why Waye Mason Won't Vote for RP+5

By Amy Pugsley Fraser

A regional Councillor is slamming the brakes on Halifax City Hall's five-year review of city's regional plan, citing aspects of it as a "black eye" for the municipality.

Counc. Waye Mason said Wednesday that he can't vote for the RP+5 plan because it includes a list of street widenings, Bayers Road and Herring Cove Road among them, that date back to 2006.

The seven-year list is duplicated in its entirety in the new plan, he says, despite input from the public over the course of last year about the importance of walkable communities, active transportation and transit.
.
.
.
Mason wants to see the entire Road Network Functional Plan taken out for public consultation.

"The public should be involved in why we're committing to support all these other modes of transportation and mobility, but the only thing we're willing to make a list of in the regional plan is roads aimed primarily at single occupancy vehicles."

Mason's motion to seek public input was approved by the volunteer-led Community Design Review Committee at the close of a two-hour meeting Wednesday.
.
.
.

This is a complex issue so I won't give my uniformed views on it. However, in order to understand Waye Mason's viewpoint somewhat better I referred to his halifax.ca website and found this interesting report on the Bayne Street Land Use Study, which includes information on twinning the MacKay bridge and ideas for re-routing truck traffic from the Southend terminal - http://wayemason.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bayne_Street_Report.pdf. It is interesting that the report is from November 2003!

[Dmajackson]

This is something I found out of the blue;

Sussex Drive Extension (http://www.halifax.ca/traffic/documents/SussexExtension-PROJECTPLAN1.0.pdf)

Basically from what I understand the Stillwater Lake community off of Hammonds Plains Road has sprawled to the point that a direct connection between Sussex Drive and St. Margaret's Bay Road is warranted. This will be done via a "subdivision road", to be built by developers, connecting Sussex Drive (Stillwater Lake) and Elder Drive (Timberlea). While this road will not be very significant by itself it does have a few unique characteristics that make it different from near by roads; 1) it is the first direct connection between Stillwater Lake & Timberlea, 2) while rural commuter in nature it is adjacent to MetroX Sheldrake Lake, and 3) it will eventually have a half-interchange with Highway 113 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=177801).

Personally I'm mixed on projects like this but I think at the end of the day this project is worth the minimal cost. It will encourage more sprawl in the area but on the other hand it has the potential to relieve traffic on Hammonds Plains Road, take congestion off of Exit 5 and put it onto Exit 4, it clearly defines and leaves space for Highway 113, and it provides more customers for the Park N' Ride at Sheldrake Lake.

On Google Maps (https://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=44.676954,-63.776407&spn=0.02185,0.052314&t=h&z=15), Elder Drive can be seen under construction. Where that roads ends in the picture is where the west-bound off-ramp from Highway 113 will eventually be located.

[rkannegi]

I put in a couple lane reconfiguration suggestions to HRM as interim options for the Windsor/Cunard/Chebucto (WCC) intersection until HRM can realign the WCC intersection into a 4-way skewed intersection. The existing intersection design forces left turns and through traffic from Windsor Street to re-merge after filing separately on entry to the intersection due to insufficient space for separate filing of left turns and through traffic on the far-side half of the existing WCC intersection along each of both directions of Windsor Street.

Option 1 (Replace left-turn-only lanes on Windsor Street with shared left/through lane with the adjacent existing shared through/right lanes replaced by right-turn-only lanes):

http://s4.postimg.org/493jkmncd/Windsor_Cunard_Chebucto_2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/zg26ojb8p/full/)

Option 2 (Replace existing left-turn-only lanes on Windsor Street with yellow-line hash zones, while existing Windsor Street right turn lanes become all-direction lanes (shared left turn/through/right turn lane), while a series of guidelines are drawn inside of the intersection to tell left turns to only stage left for a left turn in the far-side half of the intersection in their respective direction):

http://s15.postimg.org/wwmmnzmgb/Windsor_Cunard_Chebucto_3.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/8g4gtilpj/full/)
image ru (http://postimage.org/)

Cheers,

Richard Kannegiesser

[Dmajackson]

Wright Avenue in Burnside is getting some more upgrades this year. As part of a water main renewal project a sidewalk will be constructed on the south side between MacDonald Avenue and Windmill Road. Additionally a third turning lane will be installed between Windmill and Haliburton.

http://www.halifax.ca/municipalclerk/documents/140415ca1117.pdf

[Dmajackson]

Then your intersection becomes Brunswick & Duke, or Brunswick & Rainnie - instead of Brunswick & Gottingen & Duke which seems to imply that's it's a 5-way when it's not. (And get rid of the pointless traffic island splitting the right-turn lane onto Brunswick, while you're at it.)

The right-turn channel will likely be removed in 2016/2017 to make way for the extended on-street separated bike lane.

There is a similarly ridiculous series of name changes in other parts of the city too, of course. NW Arm Drive/Dunbrack/Kearney Lake/Larry Uteck/Kearney Lake again/whatever, with that little wiggly tail of Kearney Lake going down to the Bedford Highway, more or less perpendicular from the rest of Kearney Lake, for example - what is this?

Kearney Lake ends definitively at Larry Uteck. The southern portion does defy the civic addressing policies though so between Dunbrack and Bedford Highway needs to be renamed.

There are other problematic streets;

- Woodlawn Road turns at a stoplight where Mt Edward is the continuous leg.
- Ochterlonely/Prince Albert/Braemar/Waverley are all the same street.
- Mic Mac Blvd turns at a stoplight.
- Albro Lake/Sea King are the same street.
- Young Street no longer connects to itself.
- It's a straight drive from Hydrostone Market to Costco via Young/Bayers/Dutch Village/Titus/Lacewood/Chain Lake.

[portapetey]

The right-turn channel will likely be removed in 2016/2017 to make way for the extended on-street separated bike lane.



Kearney Lake ends definitively at Larry Uteck. The southern portion does defy the civic addressing policies though so between Dunbrack and Bedford Highway needs to be renamed.

There are other problematic streets;

- Woodlawn Road turns at a stoplight where Mt Edward is the continuous leg.
- Ochterlonely/Prince Albert/Braemar/Waverley are all the same street.
- Mic Mac Blvd turns at a stoplight.
- Albro Lake/Sea King are the same street.
- Young Street no longer connects to itself.
- It's a straight drive from Hydrostone Market to Costco via Young/Bayers/Dutch Village/Titus/Lacewood/Chain Lake.


Other good suggestions.

I don't know how "definitively" Kearney Lake really ends though. I realize there's a 70 degree swing and then a t-junction to end it. But it feels artificially forced, because if not for that awkwardly inserted 70 degree swing, you'd continue in a straight-ish line right along Kearney Lake oops I mean Larry Uteck. Didn't it used to be called Kearney Lake all the way? I'd call Larry Uteck a shorter street that connects Kearney Lake Rd. and the Bedford Highway.

[Ziobrop]

The right-turn channel will likely be removed in 2016/2017 to make way for the extended on-street separated bike lane.



Kearney Lake ends definitively at Larry Uteck. The southern portion does defy the civic addressing policies though so between Dunbrack and Bedford Highway needs to be renamed.

There are other problematic streets;

- Woodlawn Road turns at a stoplight where Mt Edward is the continuous leg.
- Ochterlonely/Prince Albert/Braemar/Waverley are all the same street.
- Mic Mac Blvd turns at a stoplight.
- Albro Lake/Sea King are the same street.
- Young Street no longer connects to itself.
- It's a straight drive from Hydrostone Market to Costco via Young/Bayers/Dutch Village/Titus/Lacewood/Chain Lake.
<Edit>
Hmm Posted this, then saw 2 others cited this as an example. I will point out that they all missed the one block of Alma Cres. which is in the path. its so short, you need to be zoomed in really far on the map to see it, but its there.
</EDIT>
Dutch village has 2 intersections with Joseph Howe. Also in a Continuous trip, with out turning, you can drive on Dutch Village, Alma Cres, Titus, and Finally Lacewood.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/54e205cce1808a65d86c060e8968ce3c/tumblr_nyhi1mnD0G1tjuslyo1_1280.jpg

these should all become Lacewood with Dutch Village running between Joe Howe, and the new lacewood, Alma loosing the Hook, and Titus ceasing to exist.

[macgregor]

South Park St / Young Ave
Spring Garden Rd / Coburg Rd
University / Morris
North Park / Agricola
!!!!

[portapetey]

South Park St / Young Ave
Spring Garden Rd / Coburg Rd
University / Morris
North Park / Agricola
!!!!

I suggested a few of those too over on the other thread:

"While we're at it, can we make Quinpool / Cogswell just one street?

Bell / South Park / Young Ave.?

Maybe Coburg / Spring Garden (though they're not quite lined up...)?

Robie / Massachusetts (might be tricky, there's the long residential part of Robie that would have to be renamed...)?

Lady Hammond / Duffus?

Maybe Chebucto / North (again, trickier...)?

Dutch Village / Titus / Lacewood?

The aforementioned Gottingen / Novalea?

Lordy, our street names are messy."

[macgregor]

I suggested a few of those too over on the other thread:

"While we're at it, can we make Quinpool / Cogswell just one street?

Bell / South Park / Young Ave.?

Maybe Coburg / Spring Garden (though they're not quite lined up...)?

Robie / Massachusetts (might be tricky, there's the long residential part of Robie that would have to be renamed...)?

Lady Hammond / Duffus?

Maybe Chebucto / North (again, trickier...)?

Dutch Village / Titus / Lacewood?

The aforementioned Gottingen / Novalea?

Lordy, our street names are messy."

I was really just stirring the pot. I'm ok with the ones I mentioned.
The Massachusetts named part is pretty new. The city wanted to get away from having a Y shaped Robie St. (makes sense).
Just goes to show that the City is inconsistent in it's naming conventions.

[Keith P.]

I suggested a few of those too over on the other thread:

The aforementioned Gottingen / Novalea?


Back in time - I don't remember whether it was the '70s, '80s or '90s - those who lived on the northern part of what was then Gottingen, up by the Hydrostone and further north all the way up to Convoy Place - petitioned their councillor for a name change to distance themselves from the slummy/crime-riddled part of Gottingen south of North St. The result was the tepid name of "Novalea Drive" for that section up north. Good luck trying to change that back, though ironically, there is now a short section south of Cornwallis that has revived itself somewhat, though I still wouldn't want to walk there at night, given last night's swarming.

[curnhalio]

Back in time - I don't remember whether it was the '70s, '80s or '90s - those who lived on the northern part of what was then Gottingen, up by the Hydrostone and further north all the way up to Convoy Place - petitioned their councillor for a name change to distance themselves from the slummy/crime-riddled part of Gottingen south of North St. The result was the tepid name of "Novalea Drive" for that section up north. Good luck trying to change that back, though ironically, there is now a short section south of Cornwallis that has revived itself somewhat, though I still wouldn't want to walk there at night, given last night's swarming.

Gottingen was renamed in '76 or '77 according to my mother. That very same petition arrived at her door. My parents had just moved in to the Hydrostone a year or two before the name change.

[eastcoastal]

... I still wouldn't want to walk there at night, given last night's swarming.

I thought the swarming was on the Common, not Gottingen St.?

[Keith P.]

Just up the hill from Gottingen.

[OldDartmouthMark]

University / Morris

Was looking for exhibition buildings on NS archives earlier and stumbled upon the Royal Exhibition Building on the corner of Tower Road and Morris Street.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2hi13wl.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notman/archives.asp?ID=680

Decided to look it up on Google Maps and remembered that Tower Road and Morris St. no longer intersect. That intersection is now Martello St. and University Ave.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2ibj878.jpg

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Tower+Rd,+Halifax,+NS+B3H/@44.6383563,-63.5812223,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4b5a22474cb19477:0x874891cb6ef80ef6

I don't know much at all about this long-disappeared exhibition building - the best I can figure is it was located somewhere on the site of the VG hospital complex, many years ago. Also, I noticed that Tower Rd. as it extends down to Point Pleasant Park, actually continues to the pathway in the park known as Cambridge Dr. (strange to have a pathway in PPP notated by "Drive", but anyway), which eventually passes by the Prince of Wales Tower. This may or may not be common knowledge among Halifax's historians, but I now realize that Tower Road must have at one point gone all the way to the tower, and thus its name.

[eastcoastal]

Just up the hill from Gottingen.

Robie's closer.... aren't you more scared of Robie?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Halifax swarming robberies investigated by police

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/swarming-type-robberies-investigated-1.3344000

http://i.cbc.ca/1.3344027.1448913434!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/2015-swarmings-in-halifax.png

[Dmajackson]

I don't know much at all about this long-disappeared exhibition building - the best I can figure is it was located somewhere on the site of the VG hospital complex, many years ago. Also, I noticed that Tower Rd. as it extends down to Point Pleasant Park, actually continues to the pathway in the park known as Cambridge Dr. (strange to have a pathway in PPP notated by "Drive", but anyway), which eventually passes by the Prince of Wales Tower. This may or may not be common knowledge among Halifax's historians, but I now realize that Tower Road must have at one point gone all the way to the tower, and thus its name.

Most of the major paths in Point Pleasant are former roads. Cambridge Drive is as wide as it is because it was part of Tower Road which extended past the tower down to the point which was also connected to Pleasant Street (Barrington) via what is now known as Sailor's Memorial Way.

These maps show what it look like in the late 1800's; http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/halifax_1894.jpg ; www.davidrumsey.com (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~33074~1170437:Halifax,-N-S-;JSESSIONID=710fb91a-d462-405c-9586-3c50ef950630?showTip=false&showTipAdvancedSearch=false&title=Search+Results%3A+List_No+equal+to+%270859.031%27&thumbnailViewUrlKey=link.view.search.url&helpUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.lunaimaging.com%2Fdisplay%2FV71D%2FLUNA%2BViewer%23LUNAViewer-LUNAViewer&fullTextSearchChecked=&advancedSearchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.lunaimaging.com%2Fdisplay%2FV71D%2FSearching%23Searching-Searching)

For the purposes of this thread also note that most of the existing street names on the Peninsula were in use back then including Bell/South Park/Young, Rainnie Drive is shown as a path not a full street, and the Willow Tree appears to be a roundabout named St Andrew's Cross!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Most of the major paths in Point Pleasant are former roads. Cambridge Drive is as wide as it is because it was part of Tower Road which extended past the tower down to the point which was also connected to Pleasant Street (Barrington) via what is now known as Sailor's Memorial Way.

These maps show what it look like in the late 1800's; http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/halifax_1894.jpg ; www.davidrumsey.com (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~33074~1170437:Halifax,-N-S-;JSESSIONID=710fb91a-d462-405c-9586-3c50ef950630?showTip=false&showTipAdvancedSearch=false&title=Search+Results%3A+List_No+equal+to+%270859.031%27&thumbnailViewUrlKey=link.view.search.url&helpUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.lunaimaging.com%2Fdisplay%2FV71D%2FLUNA%2BViewer%23LUNAViewer-LUNAViewer&fullTextSearchChecked=&advancedSearchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.lunaimaging.com%2Fdisplay%2FV71D%2FSearching%23Searching-Searching)

For the purposes of this thread also note that most of the existing street names on the Peninsula were in use back then including Bell/South Park/Young, Rainnie Drive is shown as a path not a full street, and the Willow Tree appears to be a roundabout named St Andrew's Cross!

That's great info! Thanks!! :tup:

[Hali87]

That's great info! Thanks!! :tup:

St. Andrew's Cross would actually have been a great name for a major intersection, especially that one.

Aside from the cultural reference (it's on our flag), it's also an ancient torture device. (Some would describe our street network, and that intersection in particular, as such)

[beyeas]

Just up the hill from Gottingen.

And just east of Robie. Just west of Quinpool.

Or more accurately, when not used to make a point, simply on the common.

[OldDartmouthMark]

St. Andrew's Cross would actually have been a great name for a major intersection, especially that one.

Aside from the cultural reference (it's on our flag), it's also an ancient torture device. (Some would describe our street network, and that intersection in particular, as such)

:yes:

[OldDartmouthMark]

I still wouldn't want to walk there at night, given last night's swarming.

Read the news - stuff happens everywhere. If you stopped going everyplace a crime could happen you would never leave your house!

Then there's home invasions, so you aren't even safe there... :uhh:

[beyeas]

St. Andrew's Cross would actually have been a great name for a major intersection, especially that one.

Aside from the cultural reference (it's on our flag), it's also an ancient torture device. (Some would describe our street network, and that intersection in particular, as such)

:cheers:

[Keith P.]

Read the news - stuff happens everywhere. If you stopped going everyplace a crime could happen you would never leave your house!

Then there's home invasions, so you aren't even safe there... :uhh:

I do not choose to put myself in harm's way. It is no secret that the majority of Gottingen St is not a safe place after dark. Those elements spill over into the surrounding areas like the Common. Despite some gentification of the area, the drug trade still is very active on those streets between Gottingen and North Park. Last I heard there were still crack houses in that area.

[Colin May]

Rainnie Drive : The sign at the northern intersection of Brunswick and what is now named Gottingen has not been changed. it remains Rainnie.
Has the correspondence from the Rainnie family caused a rethink ?

" So Rainnie is now a 300-metre one-way stub, with its unused automobile lane soon to be a protected cycle route to improve active transportation.

There are good traffic-management and safety reasons for making all these changes. But council has wrongly given little thought to ensuring Halifax’s civic recognition of a war hero is not diminished in the process.

It was Maj. Rainnie’s children who had to point that out. Last week, they wrote Mayor Mike Savage to express their feeling the city was eroding the memorial to their father and the heritage of a generation that went to war. They urged council to “see the bigger picture” and educate citizens about their heritage instead of stripping it away.

Ann Rainnie McCulloch and Gavin Rainnie, Jr., are right about this — and not just for Halifax "

http://thechronicleherald.ca/editorials/1327127-editorial-names-matter-when-honouring-our-past

[Keith P.]

I saw that piece in the Herald. Someone there must read this forum. Good position for them to take.

[Keith P.]

Speaking of ghosts from the past, the other day I was in Dartmouth on Ochterloney and had occasion to use the stub of Victoria Road uphill from there. It really is quite the relic from the 1800s - a one-lane laneway past some decrepit old houses on one side and an ancient cemetery on the other. If Victoria could be connected in a proper way to Ochterloney it would make DT Dartmouth far more accessible and likely have good effects on the businesses there. While the houses would be no great loss, it would make far more sense to take 20-30ft of the cemetery property to create a proper street there. I don't think the remains would mind much if they were relocated elsewhere within the site.

Why has this never even been discussed to my knowledge, much less done?

[fenwick16]

Was looking for exhibition buildings on NS archives earlier and stumbled upon the Royal Exhibition Building on the corner of Tower Road and Morris Street.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2hi13wl.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notman/archives.asp?ID=680

Decided to look it up on Google Maps and remembered that Tower Road and Morris St. no longer intersect. That intersection is now Martello St. and University Ave.
.
.



This is an interesting building. There are pictures of skating carnivals with participants in costumes being held in this Exhibition building. According to an old map previously posted by Dmajackson - http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/halifax_1894.jpg , it was on the site where the Cathedral Church of All Saints was built starting in 1907 - http://www.cathedralchurchofallsaints.com/cathedral_100.html

Here is another image, which shows it looking down from the Citadel in 1880 - https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notman/archives.asp?ID=406. If you zoom in, you will see it to the south of the building on the Public Gardens, which I believe is one of the first covered skating rinks in Canada. According to this link - http://alongthegardenspath.com/category/halifax-public-gardens-2/page/52/ - the Public Gardens skating rink existed from 1859 - 1889.

The Exhibition Hall at Tower and Morris seems to have existed for only a short time (about 25 years at the most) since it wasn't shown in a 1878 Halifax Atlas (map), but existed in 1880 and then was gone by 1907 when the church was built.

[OldDartmouthMark]

This is an interesting building. There are pictures of skating carnivals with participants in costumes being held in this Exhibition building. According to an old map previously posted by Dmajackson - http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/halifax_1894.jpg , it was on the site where the Cathedral Church of All Saints was built starting in 1907 - http://www.cathedralchurchofallsaints.com/cathedral_100.html

Here is another image, which shows it looking down from the Citadel in 1880 - https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notman/archives.asp?ID=406. If you zoom in, you will see it to the south of the building on the Public Gardens, which I believe is one of the first covered skating rinks in Canada. According to this link - http://alongthegardenspath.com/category/halifax-public-gardens-2/page/52/ - the Public Gardens skating rink existed from 1859 - 1889.

The Exhibition Hall at Tower and Morris seems to have existed for only a short time (about 25 years at the most) since it wasn't shown in a 1878 Halifax Atlas (map), but existed in 1880 and then was gone by 1907 when the church was built.

Great detective work!

Thanks for sharing that - very interesting and you've provided great proof of its location. I really appreciate posts like this. :tup: