[Dartmouth] The Sky (1 Horizon) | 90 m | 27 fl | U/C

[-Harlington-]

Might as well start a thread for this since we have a rendering and all :




http://www.geoffkeddy.com/geoffkeddy/projects/Commercial/Retail-Office/Tower-III/Tower-III-1.jpg



I counted 28 floors but i could be wrong

[q12]

Sweet! :omg:

[Jstaleness]

I got 27 plus the small what appears to be penthouse. 28 it is.

[someone123]

This design really is a step up from the others. It should also be visible as part of the skyline of Dartmouth from a few angles. The second tower from a few years ago is only 20 storeys and is sometimes visible.

Given the size of the city it makes a lot of sense to start creating higher density nodes with buildings like this one. Larger cities like Vancouver have suburban areas like Metrotown that are basically MicMac Mall with towers like this and the SkyTrain.

[halifaxboyns]

This is being proposed at Mic Mac Mall? Wow - I'm impressed.

[worldlyhaligonian]

To be honest, Mic Mac isn't even that far from the bridge... the distance seems shorter when you go through the neighborhood, I wonder if there is a cut through Brightwood by foot?

Big question: can somebody post a link of the site of tower 3 on google/bing maps? (If Dj hasn't already, lol)

[-Harlington-]

Im not to sure if this is correct but i found this picture on google maps and it makes sense that it would be that cleared lot below the shorter tower :



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5292/5469779019_6d1dd5865d_z.jpg

[Dmajackson]

Big question: can somebody post a link of the site of tower 3 on google/bing maps? (If Dj hasn't already, lol)

You know me too well ...

Anyways here's the link to the site on my Developments Map; Developments - Dartmouth (http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=216313966281071840285.00048f3771cc1cfcd56a8&ll=44.68922,-63.56226&spn=0.006758,0.02105&t=h&z=16)

[Jstaleness]

Im not to sure if this is correct but i found this picture on google maps and it makes sense that it would be that cleared lot below the shorter tower :



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5292/5469779019_6d1dd5865d_z.jpg

I forgot how much space there was in there. There is room for more after Horizon III.

[DigitalNinja]

Ohh yeah, there is enough room for 4 or 5 buildings.

[Jonovision]

This is amazing. It's a full 10 floors higher than Horizon II. It is going to be a stark contrast from the other two towers. But it would be nice to finally have a big modern tower in the city. This could even rival the new Fenwick when it is done for height and design.

[beyeas]

But it would be nice to finally have a big modern tower in the city.

True... and I do love the design, and I think the location is appropriate. Just sad though that, if this does get built, the only ones that seem to go up are out of the core and don't add to a coherent skyline.
But, on its own merits, this is a great project and I hope it gets built.

PS: In retrospect the drawing also makes sense. The road you are looking at is the one that intersects Woodland, and runs down towards the Kent's etc. This area is basically surrounded by woods on that side with the exception of the playing fields.

[JustinMacD]

Imagine this baby being built on the peninsula. God dammit why must this be so far away.

[Jstaleness]

Imagine this baby being built on the peninsula. God dammit why must this be so far away.

At least it's within the Circ. Give Dartmouth a few more Highrises and we'll let Halifax have the Supertalls. lol

[City_of_Lakes]

WOW. Great design. Go Dartmouth! However, I too feel that this would be better located on the Peninsula... It'd be great in the empty space behind SGR.

[sdm]

I forgot how much space there was in there. There is room for more after Horizon III.

the area that is cleared in the foreground of the photo i believe is owned by dexel developments. I believe Horizon III will be built behind the Kent building.

[someone123]

There was a rendering of a large lowrise building floating around which I guess is the Dexel development. Not sure when either of these is expected to start.

[sdm]

horizion III, 2012 according to allnovascotia.com

[fenwick16]

Based on the allnovascotia.com story, the Horizon III was to proceed about 2 years ago but a wetland of 18 acres was found. It seems like they are building higher in order to save the wetland. The story describes it as a 26 story tower.

However, this story was reported first on skyscraperpage.com by someone123 :tup: ( http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139843&page=49 ) . Good work someone123 for your digging, and DigitalNinja contacted Geoff Keddy by email for confirmation - can we consider this forum to be a news organization?

[halifaxboyns]

Ah good old Geoff is still kicking around. I have some stories about some parties at his place...wow. Good memories.

It's a great design and I think a few more towers in here should fit, depending on how or if they keep the wetland. My preference is to keep it; but that's me.

But this makes Mic Mac a great point or terminus along a potential LRT route as this is great transit oriented development since the Mic Mac stop is about 10 minutes walk away.

[q12]

Third highrise at Mic Mac Mall awaits approvals

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1229998.html

By BILL POWER Business Reporter
Fri, Feb 25 - 4:55 AM

A third residential tower proposed for a site adjacent to the Mic Mac Mall is inching its way through the approval process.

"Things are proceeding but very slowly," Otto Gaspar, president of Can-Euro Investments Ltd., said Thursday.

He said he recently received environmental approval for the $30-million development that will be built south of the mall on a site that is currently home to a couple of residential towers called Horizon Court and The Summit.

His company has also begun work on a required development agreement with Halifax Regional Municipality, Gaspar said.

The agreement is needed because the density of the development slightly exceeds existing municipal guidelines, Geoff Keddy, the building’s architect, said.

"It’s very much a minor variance and we are not expecting any problems," he said.

Gaspar said getting approvals for the project could take all year.

"We hope to be in a position to begin construction next year, but this is all very much in the early stages," he said of the project.

The new development, Tower III, will be about 27 storeys. It will feature rental accommodations and commercial space on its first three floors.

The building will be curved to make maximum benefit of solar heat and will feature an internal floor plan providing most apartments with views of Halifax Harbour, Keddy said.

"We’ve not yet finalized all the design details, but we’re looking at the possibility of a coffee shop or atrium on the roof top with a garden as a common area for the building," he said.

The company hasn’t got the final costs for the building’s construction either, but "certainly, for a project of this magnitude ($30 million) would be a pretty accurate guess," Gaspar said.

Besides Horizon Court, which is 17 storeys, and The Summit, 19 storeys, Can-Euro Investments also owns Adriana Court and Garden Stone Estates near the Mic Mac Mall.

[Northend Guy]

Oh boy...Otto Gaspar...can't say too much, but lets just say I have worked for him in the past, and there is no way in hell we will be working with him again. He's the same cat that brought the 1st two concrete monoliths.

I hope I am wrong, but I highly doubt that the finished product will bear even a remote resemblance to what is shown in Geoff's rendering.

[Empire]

Oh boy...Otto Gaspar...can't say too much, but lets just say I have worked for him in the past, and there is no way in hell we will be working with him again. He's the same cat that brought the 1st two concrete monoliths.

I hope I am wrong, but I highly doubt that the finished product will bear even a remote resemblance to what is shown in Geoff's rendering.

This is where typical development agreements fail the public. The agreements are concerned more with parking, setbacks, density, landscaping, timelines etc. and the look of the building falls through the cracks to the point where ugly Horizon 1&2 are allowed to be built. There must be more control on appearance and adhering to proposed materials. Often the agreement will be wide open and state things like the exterior may be curved with high quality glass or stone like material. This always means ugly crap like Horizon 1&2.

[Dmajackson]

Third Can-Euro highrise to be energy-efficient tower
Company president discusses vision for Dartmouth site
By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Fri, Mar 4 - 7:34 AM

OTTO GASPAR is reluctant to talk in detail about construction plans for a third residential highrise he plans to build next to Mic Mac Mall in Dartmouth because he believes speculation about the 27-storey building is "a little premature."

"We will apply, we will make a pre-application hopefully next week and the process takes eight months, I’ve been told by the planning department. So the earliest possible to start would be next year," says Gaspar, president of Can-Euro Investments Ltd.

Can-Euro was recently given environmental approval for the proposed $30-million building to be located on Horizon Court next to the company’s 18-storey Horizon Estates and 17-storey Summit.

Can-Euro also owns low-rise rental developments in the vicinity —GardenStone Estates and Adriana Court on the other side of the mall, a stone’s throw from Lake Banook.

"I have the land, it’s a nice building, we hardly have any vacancies, not many, so it’s a good market," Gaspar told me during a conversation Thursday.

Can-Euro is beginning the process of negotiating a development agreement with the city. That’s because the new building exceeds the current density plan for the area, but Gaspar says his building is the type of development the city is looking for. Its location next to the mall also means there is plenty of access to public transit.

The new structure is temporarily called Tower III but he says it will be given "a good name" before it is completed.

"From when you start next year — in the spring, let us assume — it takes two years and nobody should tell me it’s less. And this only if nothing happens," says the veteran developer, who calls South Tyrol, a German-speaking region of northern Italy, his home.

"I have no objection (to Nova Scotia), you have a nice winter, but I am an old man and you can’t transplant an old tree," he says.

If everything goes as planned, the third highrise might not be the last development on the site. Gaspar says he has room for another 100 units, more or less, depending on how negotiations go with the city planning department. That building would be totally separate from highrises and would probably not be more than five storeys in height.

"That’s totally down the road and I haven’t made any decisions in this respect," he says.

It’s a good concept, he says of the design for his new highrise. The site is like a triangle, which opens up to the south to take advantage of the sun and the view of the harbour.

Designed by Halifax architect Geoff Keddy and Associates, the building’s south-facing view has a practical side too. That side of the tower will be mostly glass to maximize the positive effect of passive solar heat, while the north side of the building will have fewer windows.

Solar heat will be used to provide in-floor radiant heating for the building, as well as to heat water. And during the warm summer months, balconies that wrap around the south side are designed to provide shade to help keep the apartments cool.

Gaspar says that from his experience, highrise-buildings are usually energy efficient because one apartment is heating another and the heat is travelling up.

"I don’t think that’s our problem. It is heat-efficient."

Can-Euro has been developing properties in Dartmouth for 25 years. Gaspar’s interest in Nova Scotia began when he and a Canadian friend teamed up on a property development in Ottawa, but he says his friend always wanted to start a project back home in Nova Scotia.

About half of his tenants are former homeowners who have decided to downsize. But not by too much. Gaspar says his building is offering 1,500 square feet of net rentable space, "which seems to be what people are looking for.

"That’s my market; I don’t build the small apartments."

[worldlyhaligonian]

How long before we hear the screams of "its too tall"... "it will disrupt the ecosystem of the lake"... "think of the children!"

[sdm]

How long before we hear the screams of "its too tall"... "it will disrupt the ecosystem of the lake"... "think of the children!"

I doubt you will hear much to be honest as developments outside the core are more or less not subjected to the b.s. on height.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I doubt you will hear much to be honest as developments outside the core are more or less not subjected to the b.s. on height.

Well, the towers proposed nearby at the lake got a ton of criticism.

[kph06]

Well, the towers proposed nearby at the lake got a ton of criticism.

I think people are more pretective of Lake Banook than Mic Mac Mall or the swamp near this site. If I remember correctly a big argument against the Lake Banook buildings were the effect they would have on wind currents down the lake. It's somewhat resonable since it's now considered a world class facility.

[sdm]

I think people are more pretective of Lake Banook than Mic Mac Mall or the swamp near this site. If I remember correctly a big argument against the Lake Banook buildings were the effect they would have on wind currents down the lake. It's somewhat resonable since it's now considered a world class facility.

thats the reason for that area, but highly doubt that will be an issue with this respective site.

There are only two things i can think of that might see the height reduced is the developer decides to reduce it, or the density of the site exceeds HRM's allowable amount. Its more likely that the former rather then later would be the case.

anyhow, excellent design and will be a welcome addition to the skyline. To bad we could get a building like this downtown.

[TheNovaScotian]

I was sitting at the mall waiting the other day wondering why on the backside of the mall near the new bus terminal no one ever thought of adding a residential tower connected directly to the mall and a garage where the bay parking is now, hopefully being able to effectively stretch the mall closer to this development and the others already there because people that i know that live there usually take their car to go shopping, call them what you will but I'm guessing they are the norm and would it not be smart to connect a few of these dots with something, not really a pedway but to expand the mall in the direction of this large population base plus if they built a parking garage it would free up chunks of their parking lot to redevelopment like the lot fronting the 118 anyways just a thought.
this is my 2nd posting and just wondered what all the diehards think about it:drunk:

[Jonovision]

I was sitting at the mall waiting the other day wondering why on the backside of the mall near the new bus terminal no one ever thought of adding a residential tower connected directly to the mall and a garage where the bay parking is now, hopefully being able to effectively stretch the mall closer to this development and the others already there because people that i know that live there usually take their car to go shopping, call them what you will but I'm guessing they are the norm and would it not be smart to connect a few of these dots with something, not really a pedway but to expand the mall in the direction of this large population base plus if they built a parking garage it would free up chunks of their parking lot to redevelopment like the lot fronting the 118 anyways just a thought.
this is my 2nd posting and just wondered what all the diehards think about it:drunk:

Thanks for posting :)
I've often thought it would be nice for MicMac to gradually fill in their parking lots with residential development. Build parking underground or a parkade or two and line everything with the shops from the mall. Gradually turning the mall inside out into a walkable mix used neighbourhood that could blend in better with the surrounding residential.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I was sitting at the mall waiting the other day wondering why on the backside of the mall near the new bus terminal no one ever thought of adding a residential tower connected directly to the mall and a garage where the bay parking is now, hopefully being able to effectively stretch the mall closer to this development and the others already there because people that i know that live there usually take their car to go shopping, call them what you will but I'm guessing they are the norm and would it not be smart to connect a few of these dots with something, not really a pedway but to expand the mall in the direction of this large population base plus if they built a parking garage it would free up chunks of their parking lot to redevelopment like the lot fronting the 118 anyways just a thought.
this is my 2nd posting and just wondered what all the diehards think about it:drunk:

I think its pretty smart, I would like to see more towers around MicMac and for the mall to offer more in the way of professional services like doctors, dentists, etc... Pedways would be super cool.

This whole big parking lots model is so flawed... Lets build on these lots and underground any spaces!

[TheNovaScotian]

I appreciate the feedback the other post i made was drowned out in the stadium thread
There already are some of those professional services like the dental clinic but you probably would have problems getting a clinic in there due to the Woodlawn Medical Clinic moving into their new digs on main street but you never know
I did not take the idea past the basics but yes i agree Jono that having that area as a mixed use neighborhood instead of a winter doughnut drivers heaven :righton: would be more efficient use of land that might have been on the fringes 10 years ago but now is right in the middle of DC, the high end homes down on the lake and Crichton Park and any residential development would only strengthen Mic Mac's position and plus anything would be more inviting than the rusted retaining wall fronting the *111 if that parking lot was deemed surplus after a large modern parking garage was built.:drunk:

[Dmajackson]

There was a small tidbit about this project in a Chronicle Herald article today. Apparently this will be going to Harbour East Community Council in a few weeks for approval! :)

[halifaxboyns]

There was a small tidbit about this project in a Chronicle Herald article today. Apparently this will be going to Harbour East Community Council in a few weeks for approval! :)

This is good news. The area around Mic Mac is developing quite nicely and could easily become a TOD (Transit Oriented Development) area for an LRT stop.

It also sets up Mic Mac so that if the mall starts to see a decline, it could become something more. For instance adding offices to the mall (say a 5 or 6 storey office tower). The fact a major transit terminal is there, helps a lot.

[JET]

This is good news. The area around Mic Mac is developing quite nicely and could easily become a TOD (Transit Oriented Development) area for an LRT stop.

It also sets up Mic Mac so that if the mall starts to see a decline, it could become something more. For instance adding offices to the mall (say a 5 or 6 storey office tower). The fact a major transit terminal is there, helps a lot.

Then we could call it 'East End Mall' ;)

[worldlyhaligonian]

Although West End mall is certainly dead (mainly professional offices) the Sobey's, Winners, Walmart and other stores do really well because of the Mumford "terminal". HSC appears to be still alive.

I think with more people, Mic Mac will be the eastern HSC... I feel like BL is the DC of Dartmouth, but won't kill Mic Mac. Is maybe Penhorn maybe the East End Mall given its similar fate?

[someone123]

It seems really common for the more upscale regional malls (HSC, Mic Mac) to do well while the local/discount malls (Downsview, Penhorn) have been pushed out of business by the big box stores.

It makes a lot of sense. A big Wal-Mart probably offers about as much as a little mall did in the 1970s, but if you're going through a bunch of clothing stores you don't want to be driving all over Bayers Lake.

[Dmajackson]

No link available yet but there is a PIM scheduled for this proposal;

Wed, 7 September, 19:00 – 21:00
60 Alderney Drive, Dartmouth NS
(Alderney Gate Library, Helen Creighton Room)

Case 17143 - Application by Geoff Keddy, for lands of Can-Euro Investments, to enter into a development agreement for a 27-storey residential building with office and commercial space on the first 3 floors. The subject property is located at the corner of Mic Mac Boulevard and Horizon Court, Dartmouth.

[Dmajackson]

No link available yet but there is a PIM scheduled for this proposal;

Wed, 7 September, 19:00 – 21:00
60 Alderney Drive, Dartmouth NS
(Alderney Gate Library, Helen Creighton Room)

Case 17143 - Application by Geoff Keddy, for lands of Can-Euro Investments, to enter into a development agreement for a 27-storey residential building with office and commercial space on the first 3 floors. The subject property is located at the corner of Mic Mac Boulevard and Horizon Court, Dartmouth.

Bump ...

Some supporters need to attend this event.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Nice.

I don't see there being any NIMBY issues out there. Maybe it blocks the view of Mic Mac Mall? :cucumber:

[beyeas]

Nice.

I don't see there being any NIMBY issues out there. Maybe it blocks the view of Mic Mac Mall? :cucumber:

Oh wait for it... there will be people that complain about the impact on views from the lakeside homes on Mic Mac Lake, and oh won't it affect the winds on Banook, and bla bla bla :brickwall:

[Dmajackson]

This proposal now has a planning case (see link below). To note is the site adjacent to this has a plan approved for 168 apartments;

Case 17143 Details (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case17143Details.html)

[fenwick16]

This proposal now has a planning case (see link below). To note is the site adjacent to this has a plan approved for 168 apartments;

Case 17143 Details (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case17143Details.html)

Thanks for posting the link.

Too bad this wasn't proposed for downtown Halifax (it would look great at the old TexPark site).

[RyeJay]

This looks really good:D

[Jstaleness]

There looked to be a new access road or something cleared in this area. It's visible from MicMac Blvd. Hopefully it's the start of something here.

[kph06]

There looked to be a new access road or something cleared in this area. It's visible from MicMac Blvd. Hopefully it's the start of something here.

I would bet it is for the Dexel buildings on the old MT&T site next door, now that the City Centre building is nearing completion, it makes sense they would be moving on their next project.

[Jstaleness]

I did wonder that. Are you referring to the one mentioned earlier in the thread. A 7 storey building or something like that?

[kph06]

I did wonder that. Are you referring to the one mentioned earlier in the thread. A 7 storey building or something like that?

I think it was 2 buildings, but 7 floors sounds about right.

[sdm]

is this approved?

I thought they had to go to community, then council for approval for height and density?

[kph06]

I think Horizon Court III must be someone in the queue still, it is still on the planning website, usually they remove stuff after it is approved. The smaller Dexel building is approved I believe.

[fenwick16]

I think it was 2 buildings, but 7 floors sounds about right.

Here is the thread for the Dexel development (2 x 7 storeys - residential/commercial) - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197535 (Dmajackson's compilation thread is very useful for finding such information). Here is the development agreement - http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/documents/1012Dec1HECC.pdf .


As for the 27 storey Horizon III, the status is given on the halifax.ca website - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case17143Details.html
Status
A public information meeting (PIM) was held September 7, 2011 to receive feedback from citizens regarding the proposal. HRM planning staff reviewed the enabling policy and the process in regards to the application with respect to the provisions of the Dartmouth MPS and to respond to any questions or concerns. The developer was represented by his consultant who presented the proposal and answered questions from the public.

Staff will consider the input received at the PIM, conduct an internal review of the application, and submit a staff report to HECC, who will then make a decision to forward the recommendation to a public hearing. Following the public hearing, HECC will make a decision to approve, approve with modifications or not approve the recommendation. The decision is appealable to the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board.

Documents Submitted for Evaluation
The applicant has submitted plans and studies required by HRM staff to properly evaluate the application. All documents are available for viewing at the Planning Services office in Dartmouth.

[sdm]

Thought that was the case.

I know Dexel's is approved, but Horizon court III is still in the planning offices.

The thread is a bit misleading (title).

[worldlyhaligonian]

At 27 stories this would be visible from many points around the harbour, you can see the first two buildings quite well and they can't be near that tall.

[Pete Crawford]

I'm surprised that nobody has posted a picture of the last Horizon Court building to go up on this site.... it looks like a communist housing block.

Is the developer of this proposal the same las the last one? I don't think there's a chance of this getting approved if it is...

[FuzzyWuz]

I'm surprised that nobody has posted a picture of the last Horizon Court building to go up on this site.... it looks like a communist housing block.

Is the developer of this proposal the same las the last one? I don't think there's a chance of this getting approved if it is...

You think it's ugly and you think that's a reason it won't be approved?

Welcome to Halifax! Stayin' long?

;)

[fenwick16]

According to the allnovascotia.com, the Harboureast Community Council will consider the 27 storey Can-Euro Horizon III proposal on July 5th. The HRM staff report is recommending that it be allowed to proceed. Here is a link to the development agreement that will be considered - http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/documents/120614hecc1011.pdf.

The renderings for the Horizon Court III certainly makes it look better than the first two towers. http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/17143ColourRenderings.pdf

[beyeas]

According to the allnovascotia.com, the Harboureast Community Council will consider the 27 storey Can-Euro Horizon III proposal on July 5th. The HRM staff report is recommending that it be allowed to proceed. Here is a link to the development agreement that will be considered - http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/documents/120614hecc1011.pdf.

The renderings for the Horizon Court III certainly makes it look better than the first two towers. http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/17143ColourRenderings.pdf

I loved the comment at the end by the developer who said, with respect to the previous public meeting, that "The only negative comment came from a woman who didn't even live nearby and dislikes all tall buildings."
I do give her some credit... it takes a lot of time and effort to be that disruptive and negative. Thankfully these people are being more actively tunes out and ignored in the process (Chronicle Herald histrionics aside).

[q12]

I loved the comment at the end by the developer who said, with respect to the previous public meeting, that "The only negative comment came from a woman who didn't even live nearby and dislikes all tall buildings."
I do give her some credit... it takes a lot of time and effort to be that disruptive and negative. Thankfully these people are being more actively tunes out and ignored in the process (Chronicle Herald histrionics aside).

This comment is funny: enjoys the beautiful view of the harbor and expressed concern with the impact the building will have, the additional traffic and the lack of interest the commercial component
will have since they are having a hard time filling commercial spaces in Mic Mac Mall.

Really? Impact the building will have on the view of the harbour? Mic Mac Mall is is having trouble filling commerercial spaces? Really? :gtfo2:

[worldlyhaligonian]

Typical song and dance from the obstructionist crowd. I hope that during the summer months they actually have less time on their hands to meddle in democratic processes based upon their normative assumptions. These folks are out-to-lunch and are being taken less seriously every year that passes...

Halifax is growing and it will not be stopped.

This building will add good density to an area already fairly well served by transit options.

[kph06]

I saw somewhere this would be called Europa Tower.

[bluenoser]

Some comments from the developer about the project and the hearing on July 5th:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/109229-hearing-on-dartmouth-highrise-set

Assuming he is successful in obtaining an agreement, Gaspar said he take three months to get detailed plans ready and then apply for a building permit.

“So I think by November I’ll have everything approved and then there’s not much I can do. I’ll have to wait until spring next year. But then I want to go ahead full speed.”

It will take two years to build, he said.

...


The new highrise will have a footprint of 13 per cent of the property and would be on a triangular site in relation to the other buildings, with more than 240 metres separating each.

He said he is contemplating adding a five- to seven-storey building in that area.

“I could build another 100-150 units, I don’t know exactly, but I have the space and I have the density. But, for the moment, I have to focus on this project. Once this is done, or half done, then I will continue.”



http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/u23/HorizonCourtRendering2.JPG

[moody]

What the hell is going on in the podium? It looks like they pasted in a scene from SimTower.

I'm looking forward to this building going forward!

[someone123]

This has been approved. The developer's hoping to get a building permit in October and begin construction in early 2013.

Still not sure what the height is.

[fenwick16]

This has been approved. The developer's hoping to get a building permit in October and begin construction in early 2013.

Still not sure what the height is.

According to this - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/17143Drawings.pdf - it is 280 ft 6" (85.5 meters) to the top of the parapet.

[someone123]

Thanks. I updated the title.

At 85.5 m this building will be taller than Queen's Square, which is only 75 m, but it will be shorter than the King's Wharf iconic tower. The Europa Tower should be fairly visible even from the Halifax side for the harbour. The shorter Micmac buildings are already visible from some angles and they add some interest and "layering" to a lot of Dartmouth skyline photos.

[q12]

This should look pretty impressive driving inbound on Highway 118 as you approach Dartmouth.

[hoser111]

Of course, they couldn't leave well enough alone. Louis Lawen is appealing the approval.....

"A pair of prominent local developers are headed for the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board in a spat about who can do what on some Dartmouth land.

Earlier this month, Harbour East Community Council gave Can-Euro Investments the go-ahead to develop a 27-storey residential building at Horizon Court.

Can-Euro, owned by German developer Otto Gaspar, already has a trio of existing residential properties on the Horizon Court site.

Now Ollive Properties Ltd., which is owned by developer Louis Lawen, has applied to appeal the council’s decision."

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/120080-dartmouth-developers-spar-over-horizon-court-property

[Wishblade]

I don't know how the hell he thinks this doesn't fit in with the surrounding neighbourhood. It fits in perfectly...

[JET]

In the notice of appeal, Ollive said that the size of Can-Euro’s proposal “is incompatible with the existing neighbourhood.”

weird, the neighbourhood adjacent is a KENT and the mall :koko:

[bluenoser]

Tall buildings are not welcome in HRM. Even in areas surrounded by highways, commercial, and other tall buildings.

I don't get it - I would have thought that a nice, modern building would complement whatever Ollive has planned, in making a cool new condo community. Even a TOD of sorts.

[Northend Guy]

This is basically a case of tit for tat. Gaspar appealed Lawen's, and kept his project tied up for a protracted amount of time, and now Lawen is returning the favor. Can't say I blame him...

[someone123]

Tall buildings are not welcome in HRM. Even in areas surrounded by highways, commercial, and other tall buildings.

The key here is that under the present system it's relatively cheap and easy to appeal.

[halifaxboyns]

The key here is that under the present system it's relatively cheap and easy to appeal.

When I worked in Fort McMurray (for the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo) an appeal was far from cheap. Granted, having a high appeal fee (to disuade people from launching tit for tat appeals) has other impacts.

Case in point: In the RMWB, the Development Authority had (up until around 2006) very limited variance powers. So when someone would come in to get a compliance on their property (to ensure everything met setback rules) and their deck didn't, they would apply for a variance. Because of the limitations, we sometimes had to refuse a variance for 4 inches because it was beyond our power to grant, causing the property owner to spend $525 to appeal. Then at appeal, we'd recommend overturning the refusal because we felt the variance was minor. Thank goodness we changed the rules and that virtually eliminated that problem.

But it was $1025 to appeal any multi-residential, commercial or industrial project. Typically the only time you would see those appeal (in the RMWB) would be because they didn't like the conditions of approval, were appealing a refusal or a well organized community group (with $) were appealing an approval.

Here at the City of Calgary - any appeal is $25, which is far too little and we get spats of all sorts!

[someone123]

It's a pretty hard problem to deal with, because many appeals are legitimate. If you charge $1,000 across the board then you are slanting the process in favour of developers and wealthier people -- that's almost certainly chump change for Lawen but it is a serious sum of money for some people. $1,000 actually seems like a particularly bad amount for that.

I think HRM by Design handles this the correct way. Some of the HbD heights should have been taller but that's a separate issue.

[Jringe01]

Oh for the love of mike!!!!!!! Wonder how long this so called "appeal" will take

[fenwick16]

I just looked the appeal status of the Horizon Court III tower on the NSUARB website - http://www.nsuarb.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=82 . This case is Docket ID # M05086 .

The following is a timetable of the proceedings - http://www.nsuarb.ca/NSUARB_eDocuments_JOOMLA/get_document.php?doc=10144&no=10147 . The status is listed as being "Open" but based on the timetable, there should be a decision soon on whether this appeal will be allowed to proceed further. If it is permitted to proceed then there should have been a notice by now (but it might have been delayed).

Here are links to submissions by:
Ollive Properties (Appellant): http://www.nsuarb.ca/NSUARB_eDocuments_JOOMLA/get_document.php?doc=10248&no=10251

HRM (in support of its decision to grant a development agreement): http://www.nsuarb.ca/NSUARB_eDocuments_JOOMLA/get_document.php?doc=10250&no=10253

Can-Euro's submission: http://www.nsuarb.ca/NSUARB_eDocuments_JOOMLA/get_document.php?doc=10249&no=10252

[Dmajackson]

URB ruling stalls Tower III project
November 19, 2012 - 7:30pm BY BILL POWER BUSINESS REPORTER

Construction of the $36-million Horizon Court residential complex in Dartmouth will not begin this year as expected, developer Otto Gaspar said Monday.

“It appears we’ve missed the critical window to get our footings down this fall,” Gaspar said in an interview.

“It’s truly a shame.”

Gaspar’s Can-Euro Investments Ltd. wanted to break ground before winter sets in on a 27-storey residential complex adjacent to Mic Mac Mall in Dartmouth.

...

(bpower@herald.ca)

Aggrieved Person Decision (http://www.nsuarb.ca/images/stories/pdf/Decisions/12Nov/210769%20ollive%20decision.pdf)

Notice of Public Hearing (http://www.nsuarb.ca/images/stories/pdf/notices_of_hearing/13Jan/208677%20ollive%20properties.pdf)

The NSUARB will hear the appeal on January 15th.

This should easily win the appeal so hopefully a spring start will happen. :)

[worldlyhaligonian]

Still annoying that they couldn't start sooner. This development is amazing... downtown quality.

[Hali87]

Tower III plan 'incompatible' with adjacent developments (http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/393785-tower-iii-plan-incompatible-with-adjacent-developments)

Planning consultant: HRM, developer should have been more creative

A proposed $36-million residential complex in Dartmouth is “incompatible and inconsistent” with adjacent uses, a planning consultant said in evidence filed with the provincial regulator Monday.

Can-Euro Investments Ltd., headed by Otto Gaspar, wants to build a 27-storey residential complex, colloquially known as Tower III, near Mic Mac Mall. The company’s Horizon Court site includes the 17-storey Horizon Estates and 19-storey Summit buildings.

But Ollive Properties Ltd., owned by developer Louis Lawen, is appealing Harbour East community council’s approval of the tower on the grounds that it did not “reasonably carry out the intent of the Dartmouth municipal planning strategy.”

Lawen has approval for a multiple-unit residential complex on land abutting Horizon Court formerly owned by Maritime Tel and Tel.

...

This seems sketchy. I wish they'd explained in what way it was considered "incompatible". Is it just the height? Saying that a multi-residential project should not go on a site because another multi-residential project is planned for an adjacent site makes 0 sense.

[Antigonish]

Maybe they want another cheap looking concrete block tower like the previous two. Awful logic.

[halifaxboyns]

From a planning perspective - context really doesn't have a definition. In the case of Calgary, for inner city redevelopment (be it low density or high density) your neighbours have some influence.

For low density, how tall your house can be and how far forward it can be on the lot is a direct relationship with the neighbouring houses. We take the average, less 1.5m to allow some move forward and there is your front yard setback. Height - Average of the two plus 1.5m to allow some increase in height and there is your height. The maximum height can be anywhere between 8.6 and 10m, but no taller than 10m and no less than 8.6.

For multi; that's a bit different. Your height and density are more of a product of the zoning. But your setback on a major street, is still based on your neighbours (the average I mentioned above). We call these contextual rules and they work okay, but sometimes they can be a hastle. Particularly when you have the large lots with huge/deep setbacks.

In this case, I would argue that 27 floors is a reasonable context because you already had two buildings in the 15-18 range. An increase of 10 stories is not an unreasonable increase, since it's in proximity to a major transit station anyway. Granted, these arguments would be much easier to solve if HRM had some transit oriented development plans around the major bus stations.

[Antigonish]

NBNS would you have any idea why they would deem this project 'incompatible' with the neighbouring structures? Is this an arbitrary decision made by the planner due to the design or a zoning problem?

Can't wrap my head around this one :koko:

[Haligonian88]

The appeal took place today, hopefully a decision will be reached quickly.

Projects too close, review board told

January 15, 2013 - 8:46pm BY REMO ZACCAGNA BUSINESS REPORTER

A Dartmouth developer told a provincial regulator Tuesday he has concerns about a proposed $36-million residential complex on land next to his proposal.

Louis Lawen, who heads Ollive Properties Ltd., is appealing Harbour East community council’s July 5 approval of a 27-storey, mixed-use Dartmouth residential building at 7 Horizon Court. Can-Euro Investments Ltd., headed by Otto Gaspar, is proposing it.

Lawen has approval for twin seven-storey, mixed-use buildings, with 30,000 square feet of commercial and retail space, on land abutting Horizon Court.

The provincial Utility and Review Board heard arguments Tuesday.

The crux of Lawen’s appeal centres on council’s failure to “reasonably carry out” the intent of the Dartmouth municipal planning strategy.

...


http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/443272-projects-too-close-review-board-told

[Wishblade]

Sounds to me like he just simply doesn't want the competition.

[hoser111]

Developer ‘intentionally misled’ public

Review board: Drawings featured all-glass tower that Can-Euro said was too costly to construct

A Dartmouth developer intentionally misled the public with drawings of a $36-million residential project, says the provincial regulator.

Can-Euro Investments Ltd., headed by Otto Gaspar, wants to build a 27-storey residential complex, colloquially known as Tower III near Mic Mac Mall. The company’s Horizon Court site includes the 17-storey Horizon Estates and 19-storey Summit buildings.

Last year, Ollive Properties Ltd., owned by developer Louis Lawen, lodged an appeal of Harbour East community council’s approval of the tower.

Rest of the story here:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/859565-developer-intentionally-misled-public

[Jstaleness]

Ouch. There was a post way back in the beginning of this thread where someone said it would look just like the other two. Looks as though they weren't far off.

[fenwick16]

Oh boy...Otto Gaspar...can't say too much, but lets just say I have worked for him in the past, and there is no way in hell we will be working with him again. He's the same cat that brought the 1st two concrete monoliths.

I hope I am wrong, but I highly doubt that the finished product will bear even a remote resemblance to what is shown in Geoff's rendering.

Northend Guy (on Feb 25, 2011) called this one the right way. It looked too good to be true, especially considering the design of the first two towers.


Quote from the Chronicle Herald story - (http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/859565-developer-intentionally-misled-public) - “He stated he had no intention of building an all-glass building as depicted in the pictures,” the board wrote. “Furthermore, he testified that if he is required under the development agreement to build an all-glass building, he would not construct it.”

Gaspar noted that in a letter to council dated last March 26, he described the glass portion of building as being “less than 40 per cent.”


Hopefully HRM Council will give the same type of response and state that they have no intention of issuing a development agreement.

[Drybrain]

Developer: "I'm gonna build this thing." City: "Approved." Developer: "Actually, no, I'm just gonna build a whole different thing, and you won't know what it looks like 'til I'm done. Cool?"

Really, this is absurd. City documents on the project include detailed renderings and drawings specifying the materials to be used, site plans, etc. HRM should revoke approval, it at all possible. Think of the precedent. We already know the city's laws around enforcing heritage protection, etc., are pathetically insufficient, but if they can't even get a developer to commit to their own project renderings...

[fenwick16]

Developer: "I'm gonna build this thing." City: "Approved." Developer: "Actually, no, I'm just gonna build a whole different thing, and you won't know what it looks like 'til I'm done. Cool?"

Really, this is absurd. City documents on the project include detailed renderings and drawings specifying the materials to be used, site plans, etc. HRM should revoke approval, it at all possible. Think of the precedent. We already know the city's laws around enforcing heritage protection, etc., are pathetically insufficient, but if they can't even get a developer to commit to their own project renderings...

I forgot that this was approved. Based on the CH story, it sounds like the approval might be overturned.

[hoser111]

All very disappointing and kinda greasy!

[Aya_Akai]

All very disappointing and kinda greasy!

back-alley cheeseburger & onion ring greasy...

I saw this bumped up and got excited.. and now reading all that.. I think we could do without this, for now... unless the developer is required to, and forced to stick with what was submitted and we WOULD get that beautiful glass tower...

[Phalanx]

Yeah, that kind of bait and switch shouldn't be allowed to fly. It may have been approved, but it was clearly approved under false pretenses. Letting a developer get away with that just sets up, or continues a bad precident.

[worldlyhaligonian]

What a dumb fuck!

[resetcbu1]

Bring out the torches and pitchforks.... Good ol' fashion lynching :)

[Wishblade]

All very disappointing and kinda greasy!

grea hee heesy (in the voice of bubbles) :P

[q12]

Bring out the torches and pitchforks.... Good ol' fashion lynching :)

:lynchmob::lynchmob::lynchmob:

[worldlyhaligonian]

He owes SSP an apology... and the development community.

This is ammo for the anti-development folks.

[IanWatson]

Sadly, I think the developer has a leg to stand on here. Reading the DA:

"3.4.2 The design, form, and exterior materials of the building shall, in the opinion of the Development Officer, generally conform to the Building Elevations included with this Agreement as Schedules F, G and H."

First of all, that's a fairly loose requirement with a lot of room for latitude. Second, Shedules F, G, H are basic 2D elevations with almost no reference to what the exterior materials are intended to be. In other words, there's absolutely nothing to hold the developer to the renderings. I won't speculate as to where the blame lies for this (intentional?) looseness. Further reminder that the number one rule of the development realm is that renderings don't mean squat.

As an aside, while I think this is unfortunate from a public trust POV, I'm not so sure it's overall a bad thing. All-glass towers certainly have a slick appeal to them, but they're notorious for having terrible heat gain problems in the summer and very poor insulation in the winter (and also often water problems).

[bluenoser]

Thanks for the insight, Ian. That's a good point about glass towers; I understand that those problems can get a lot worse with age as well. Also, using glass for 100% of cladding arguably limits the design in some ways, and this approach could seem dated in a few years. My concern here though, is that the alternative will be a lot of cheap, ugly concrete as in his other two towers but at about twice the size. And other features (in addition to the cladding) could definitely end up being cheaper and uglier as well.