Build a new 21st century main street

[lrt's friend]

OK everybody, debate how you would design a new urban main street for the 21st century. Maybe even suggest where it should be built in Ottawa. Let's try to remain at least somewhat realistic.

[Uhuniau]

Start by building it for the early 20th century: buildings close to each other and tight to the street. No "green" space, no useless "open" space.

No parking in the front.

No one-storey buildings.

Mixture of lot frontage sizes.

Frequent intersections for short blocks.

Traffic signals that give pedestrians Walk as of Right.

[McC]

Maybe even suggest where it should be built in Ottawa.

Alta Vista Parkway Corridor (as a continuation of Richard Eade's extended Kind Edward across the Rideau River, then behind the hospital campus and down the middle of the corridor to Walkley and Conroy, then taking over Conroy as far south as existing developments allow).

Road would have Tram in the central median, one lane each way for traffic, one more lane each way for parking/turning lanes/etc. Wide tree-lined sidewalks with room for some patios.

Street would be lined on either side with buildings presenting Euro-style continuous 6-storey height (exception of "gateway" point towers at the corners of Smythe and Walkley). If the corridor is wide enough, the apartment buildings should be horseshoe shaped with rear courtyards preserving some of the corridor's green space for each building.

[gjhall]

As for location I would also suggest St Laurent Blvd from Ogilvy to Hemlock.

[m0nkyman]

Or we could get serious about LeBreton flats

[Harley613]

or, since Main Street itself is the most boring street in ottawa with very few redeeming qualities and a great location, how about gentrifying and updating it, and opening it up to the city? it blows me away that the majority of people i talk to don't even know where main street ottawa is!

[Kitchissippi]

If you look at great main streets in Europe and elsewhere, they are not just about shopping, in fact they are anchored by other traditional gathering spaces such as cathedrals, city halls, schools, etc. I think the reason why we are failing to create successful main streets in the new suburbs is that planners tend to separate out these community functions and scatter them amongst residential areas where people have to purposely drive to them.

The other key ingredient is transit, and an ideal situation in a linear main street would be the ability to get off transit at one end and catch a ride on another.

So if I were to create a main street from scratch, I would build it parallel to or on top of a transit line, and punctuate it with non-commercial destinations such as a library, an auditorium, an urban plaza where a crowd can gather, a community centre, an arena, places of worship, etc.

I would love to experiment with Barrhaven Town Centre by building a pedestrian street right over the Transitway. I would disguise the elevated road by building tightly against it, infilling the big box stores with smaller shops with offices on top, in varying heights 2 to 5 stories. Where the two transit ROWs will eventually meet, I would cluster public amenities including a gathering plaza for community festivals/ events. In terms of look and feel, it would mimic the Graben in Vienna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graben,_Vienna) or the Stroget in Copenhagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strøget).

Overlayed on a sprawling power centre, it would look something like this:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/5410937804_d2d3989eff_b.jpg

[Uhuniau]

Kitchissippi I like your plan, other than having an "event plaza" at a major corner like that. It's a good way to kill a corner.

[Uhuniau]

Location: I am surprised at how little it would take to turn Merivale into something human.

[eternallyme]

Location: I am surprised at how little it would take to turn Merivale into something human.

Just build through the parking lots, and voila! Merivale would actually be fairly easy to convert to such. The Merivale Mall lands would be a good place to start.

[eternallyme]

I have only designed a map/drawing for the area around Clyde, where the most dramatic change would be, although a similar concept would apply from Caldwell to Colonnade. Here is my thinking (the old CTV building area is to be demolished). NO residential properties not directly on Merivale would be impacted in any way, shape or form.

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/2601/merivale1.jpg

In this design there are other notable changes:

* The office space on the south side extends to Baseline Road (not shown)

* The retail space on the north side also extends to Baseline Road (not shown)

* Merivale is to become a straight, less confusing street - no more forced turns to remain on Merivale (that messy intersection is cleaned up). However, some movements onto Baseline would require a left onto Clyde (as shown below).

* Access via side streets broken by the divider would be right-in, right-out only. Sections with a central turning lane would be divided by the narrow grass/tree-lined divided.

* There would be NO turning from EB Baseline onto SB Merivale, nor from NB Merivale onto WB Baseline, as that is an extremely dangerous skewed intersection. Such movements would be accomodated via Clyde.

* There would be very few private driveways onto Merivale, since it is to be all street-frontage for pedestrian access.

* I left enough room for 6 lanes of traffic, but no auxiliary turning lanes except at major intersections (i.e. Meadowlands, Clyde). The outer lanes would run right up to the sidewalk.

* The speed limit on Merivale between Colonnade and Caldwell would be reduced to 50 km/h from the current 60 km/h.

* Route 176 buses are to run more frequently (it would not be a rapid transit route, however) and stops are to be given a makeover.

[waterloowarrior]

check out the IJburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJburg) neighbourhood in Amsterdam.. tram, bikeways, on-street parking, modern architecture, taller buildings etc...

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=amsterdam&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=46.537375,73.564453&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Amsterdam,+North+Holland,+The+Netherlands&ll=52.35834,4.989617&spn=0.002686,0.006534&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.358382,4.989533&panoid=EjaLdXT-TcTWDVPc9-JDxw&cbp=12,114.92,,0,3.6

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=70207465&postcount=591

http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/46207436.jpg

[Dado]

check out the IJburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJburg) neighbourhood in Amsterdam.. tram, bikeways, on-street parking, modern architecture, taller buildings etc...

Taller buildings? The maximum I count in that view (after rotating) is 7 storeys, a fair bit of 6 and lots less than that, and all of it on what is a fairly wide right-of-way (45-50 m - Carling is currently 30 m, excluding setbacks). Elsewhere along it I found 8 storeys.

Trying to get Ottawa's developers to abide by these kind of heights is like pulling teeth - to them it's a starting point. Can you imagine having height restrictions of 8 storeys on a tram-equipped Carling Avenue? We can't even enforce restrictions of 6 storeys on narrower streets without trams like Richmond.

While modern Dutch architecture doesn't particularly catch my eye in general - frankly the Dutch should contract out architecture to someone else, though the Frisians in the north (Friesland/Fryslân and Groningen) seem to be able to design decent stuff* - they by-and-large get the ground-level planning and basic urban design right. Obviously this area is a bit new so it still has a somewhat sterile feel to it - not helped by the architecture - nevertheless, it beats what we produce in the suburbs along our main roads like Hazeldean and Innes by a country mile. Most importantly, the Dutch don't overengineer their roads. Despite being an obviously important road (it has an Autoroute interchange to the northwest), it has only one lane per direction.


*One of the major differences between Dutch and Frisian architecture is that the latter tend to prefer sloped rooflines whereas the Dutch seem to have a thing for flat roofs. The northern preference for sloped roofs may be due to the greater quantity of snow in the north.

[waterloowarrior]

In Barrhaven those would be the new tallest buildings :p Personally I'm a fan of the Dutch modern and neomodern architecture but I understand what your saying...many of the apartments in that development are pretty bland. You've made a really important point on how key the transportation infrastructure is. We can't expect urban mainstreets if we build 60-70km/hr design speed arterials in the suburbs. We're going to be reconstructing roads like Carling and Bronson, but based on what I've read in West Side Action, the designs proposed won't contribute to making them more urban streets.

I guess this would be the closest thing we have in Ottawa right now in terms of a greenfield 'mainstreet' (with lots of grass instead of LRT). 41.5m ROW. Note that this isn't showing the part of the street near the future 'town centre (http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/planning/community_plans/completed/south_nepean/index_en.html)' of Barrhaven (west of Longfields)

0TP389z7JXs

[lrt's friend]

Was this the planned LRT corridor? If it is, it will be the next Byron Avenue linear park. Mark my words, when we finally decide to do something with it, the neighbours will object.

[Uhuniau]

Taller buildings? The maximum I count in that view (after rotating) is 7 storeys, a fair bit of 6 and lots less than that, and all of it on what is a fairly wide right-of-way (45-50 m - Carling is currently 30 m, excluding setbacks). Elsewhere along it I found 8 storeys.

Trying to get Ottawa's developers to abide by these kind of heights is like pulling teeth - to them it's a starting point. Can you imagine having height restrictions of 8 storeys on a tram-equipped Carling Avenue? We can't even enforce restrictions of 6 storeys on narrower streets without trams like Richmond.

I'd rather try imagining some of the dreadful one-storey plazas on the main drags in the grey-belt suburbs being built UP to six or seven storeys.

Contrary to popular belief, the problem in Ottawa is not that the nefarious developers want to build too high; it's that they build too bloody low.

[Uhuniau]

I guess this would be the closest thing we have in Ottawa right now in terms of a greenfield 'mainstreet' (with lots of grass instead of LRT).

Future precious Open Green Space™, to be protected, at all costs, from everything, forever.

[Uhuniau]

Eternallyme, it would take City Hall six years and $2.5-million to come up with an inferior plan to your Merivale drawing, and then never implement it anyway.

What position do you want in the regime when my minions take over?

[eternallyme]

Eternallyme, it would take City Hall six years and $2.5-million to come up with an inferior plan to your Merivale drawing, and then never implement it anyway.

What position do you want in the regime when my minions take over?

Just an outside consultant I guess. I could do such drawings for any city.

[eternallyme]

That Merivale idea is just for one short section. In a nutshell, here is my vision for the section from Caldwell to Colonnade:

Residential
For the most part, it should be in the setback areas that are reclaimed. However, the Merivale Mall site (the mall would be demolished) would be entirely converted to residential (displaced tenants would get a priority on-street location). In addition, south of Viewmount, the 5 houses would get a buyout option, but would lose driveway access if kept (they would be forced to park at a side parking lot). They would otherwise be converted to mixed use.

Small retail
Dominates the stretch north of Emerald Plaza. Will also exist on the west side from Meadowlands to what is now Merivale Mall. Also includes small restaurants.

Medium retail
For the most part, this will front Merivale on the east side between Emerald Plaza and Viewmount, and provide a lifestyle centre-like appearance for this section. Also includes large restaurants.

Large retail
Basically, this would be where the big boxes are now. There would be a significant change though. The fronting areas would become pedestrian pathways, while three parking garages would provide parking access. NO big box stores are displaced.

Mixed use
Scattered at strategic points throughout the corridor, generally on the west side.

Office space
There would be three office space locations: at Baseline/Merivale (near and abutting existing office buildings), Clyde/Merivale (old CTV building site) and Meadowlands/Merivale (southwest corner). They would all be a suitable height to create a nice setting.

Cultural/institutional space
South of Viewmount on the east side. A new theatre/arts complex (privately funded) could be built at Colonnade/Merivale, and the recreational centre should be expanded to streetside, as should buildings tied to Merivale High School (maybe a satellite college?). A new neighbourhood library should replace the Emerald Plaza library in this area as well.

Religious facilities
The two churches should remain, with a third site - southwest corner of Viewmount/Merivale - being preserved for a cathedral or high-end signature church.

Parkland
Two major parkland sites I have thought of should exist. One is Merivale Commons at Clyde/Merivale (old intersection space converted to greenspace). The other is the Gathering Plaza in front of Toys 'R Us at Family Brown Lane, which should be a large park and plaza space in the middle of the large and medium retail area. (The shape of the business in the area supports such)

Transit facilities
The only rapid transit facilities I suggest are a BRT station at Baseline/Merivale on the Baseline route, and a possible LRT station at Merivale and Colonnade if an outer loop LRT is built. (If used for commuter rail, no stations are recommended.) Bus stops should get a heritage feel like York Region's vivavintage stops.

South of Colonnade, Merivale should remain a suburban principal arterial, as the Hunt Club area is not conducive to mainstreet development (and my proposal for Hunt Club is a grade-separated interchange!).

[Dado]

I'd rather try imagining some of the dreadful one-storey plazas on the main drags in the grey-belt suburbs being built UP to six or seven storeys.

Contrary to popular belief, the problem in Ottawa is not that the nefarious developers want to build too high; it's that they build too bloody low.

I'd say that's two sides of the same coin.

The ideal city to our developers would consist of a core of single-use office buildings encircled by a ring of super tall condos surrounded for miles and miles by low-rise suburbs neatly divided into areas consisting of one-storey retail plazas, office parks with stubby office buildings and residential districts of single detached houses with three-car garages on large lots along loopy sidewalkless roads and culs-de-sac.

[Dado]

Was this the planned LRT corridor? If it is, it will be the next Byron Avenue linear park. Mark my words, when we finally decide to do something with it, the neighbours will object.

You mean like these guys?

Residents of award-winning, transit-oriented development say no to transit (http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/residents_of_award-winning_sub.html)

:D

[Dado]

I have only designed a map/drawing for the area around Clyde, where the most dramatic change would be, although a similar concept would apply from Caldwell to Colonnade. Here is my thinking (the old CTV building area is to be demolished). NO residential properties not directly on Merivale would be impacted in any way, shape or form.

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/2601/merivale1.jpg

In this design there are other notable changes:

* The office space on the south side extends to Baseline Road (not shown)

* The retail space on the north side also extends to Baseline Road (not shown)

* Merivale is to become a straight, less confusing street - no more forced turns to remain on Merivale (that messy intersection is cleaned up). However, some movements onto Baseline would require a left onto Clyde (as shown below).

* Access via side streets broken by the divider would be right-in, right-out only. Sections with a central turning lane would be divided by the narrow grass/tree-lined divided.

* There would be NO turning from EB Baseline onto SB Merivale, nor from NB Merivale onto WB Baseline, as that is an extremely dangerous skewed intersection. Such movements would be accomodated via Clyde.

* There would be very few private driveways onto Merivale, since it is to be all street-frontage for pedestrian access.

* I left enough room for 6 lanes of traffic, but no auxiliary turning lanes except at major intersections (i.e. Meadowlands, Clyde). The outer lanes would run right up to the sidewalk.

* The speed limit on Merivale between Colonnade and Caldwell would be reduced to 50 km/h from the current 60 km/h.

* Route 176 buses are to run more frequently (it would not be a rapid transit route, however) and stops are to be given a makeover.


I think I'd extend Starwood eastwards and Gilbey across Merivale to an intersection from which a third street would head northwards parallel to Clyde to Baseline opposite the entrance to Walmart.

That would open up the interior of the triangle. I'd even consider running the BRT down Merivale from Baseline then back up this new street to Baseline, complete with a station. Then we could let Rod Lahey go wild on the building at Clyde and Merivale where he won't have anyone to be upset by it.

[lrt's friend]

You mean like these guys?

Residents of award-winning, transit-oriented development say no to transit (http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/residents_of_award-winning_sub.html)

:D

This exactly why you want to build rapid transit early in the development process when it is going to be well integrated in the community. We are going to end up spending a whole lot more trying to reroute rapid transit in future years. This will apply to Riverside South as well. At least a portion of the $60 million for property acquisition and LRT design is going to be a total waste.

[matty14]

Reviving a bit of an old thread, but I just had some ideas I wanted to share and see if they could be improved upon. I admit, it might be a little pie-in-the-sky as some of the costs might make it prohibitive, but I think envisioning on a grander scale makes for a much more beautiful city.

I always thought Richmond Road (from about Golden Ave. to Bayshore) could be turned into a beautiful main street through the heart of Westboro. I would close Byron Avenue and relocate Richmond Road to the middle of the ROW, maintaining any access to Richmond Road that exists on Byron Avenue (thought: maybe make smaller accesses RIRO to reduce the number of traffic signals? Although traffic signals do make for slower progression of traffic so people aren't racing down the street). I want to be careful here in the comparison I make, but I envision it to be the same IDEA as the Champs-Elysees in Paris: wide, pedestrian-friendly sidewalks lined with trees and benches (the ROW is definitely wide enough) and street-oriented commercial and residential (3-6 storeys). Obviously it won't even be close to the same scale as the Champs-Elysees. I make Richmond 2 lanes/direction, with the right lane used for on-street parking, have very wide sidewalks to encourage walking instead of driving, and, if possible, have segregated bike lanes. And, worst-case scenario, the sidewalks should be wide enough to allow road widening when/if major traffic capacity issues become unworkable, all the while maintaining the pedestrian-friendliness.

Now, surely as soon as I mentioned that I wanted to relocate Richmond Road to the middle of the ROW most of you were thinking "What about transit?". Well this is the part where I think the costs might make this a little prohibitive. I would envision transit being completely buried in this corridor. The cut-and-cover tunnel could be coordinated with the relocation and reconstruction of the road (Note: we could have done this on Bank Street had there been a little more forward thinking), and the 3-6 storey streetscape would be modified to be more high-density around the stations. The corridor from Fraser to Lincoln Fields would be the main western connection. Lincoln Fields would be configured as a hub station with high density surrounding it. The transitway would branch off at Lincoln Fields to the south (Baseline, Barrhaven) and the west (Bayshore, Kanata). The western corridor would tunnel under Carling (potentially bored to reduce disruption on Carling) to Richmond and down Richmond to Bayshore.

I think having fast, reliable, grade-separated transit along this corridor will not only make transit more enticing for those seeking to get downtown, but it will also make Richmond Road a new 24-hour (or well at least off-peak) destination easily accessed by transit, bike, foot, and (for those who are married to their car) by car.

A few issues:
- The ROW shrinks after the ORP and even more so after Carling. I'm having difficulty thinking of how a section as described above could be implemented without massive expropriation of small houses between Grenon and Bayshore.
- A similar problem exists from Ambleside to Golden where it's mostly townhouses on the South side of the corridor, and from Wavell to Fraser where townhouses also exist on the north side
- Another issue that stems from the above two is not only the potential expropriation, but also how to well integrate the desired 3-6 storey streetfront buildings with the rest of the surrounding neighbourhood
- NIMBYs

I would hope to one day extend Richmond Road all the way through Hintonburg and Mechanicsville and connect to Wellington Road. Richmond/Wellington Road could be Ottawa's Robson Street or Rue Saint-Catherine.

This is definitely a work in progress when I can find time off school work, and I'm working on a conceptual map at the moment. Your input (comments, criticisms, and suggestions) would be greatly appreciated!

[McC]

I would hope to one day extend Richmond Road all the way through Hintonburg and Mechanicsville and connect to Wellington Road. Richmond/Wellington Road could be Ottawa's Robson Street or Rue Saint-Catherine.
Richmond already connects to Wellington at Island Park, and from there the road runs through Wellington West and Hintonburg. The old Wellington alignment used to continue across the O-Train tracks and at a diagonal across what is now City Centre and Lebreton Flats. It never ran through Mechanicsville (which is north of Scott St), so I'm not sure where your aligment would go at all (or why you want to flatten my neighbourhood for a new boulevard). If you want a new road through Hontonburg/Mechanicsville, just cover the transitway trench, it'd be much easier, although totally unecessary, there's not much traffic on Scott St for 95% of the day.

[matty14]

Richmond already connects to Wellington at Island Park, and from there the road runs through Wellington West and Hintonburg. The old Wellington alignment used to continue across the O-Train tracks and at a diagonal across what is now City Centre and Lebreton Flats. It never ran through Mechanicsville (which is north of Scott St), so I'm not sure where your aligment would go at all (or why you want to flatten my neighbourhood for a new boulevard). If you want a new road through Hontonburg/Mechanicsville, just cover the transitway trench, it'd be much easier, although totally unecessary, there's not much traffic on Scott St for 95% of the day.

Yeah I did mean using the Wellington West and continuing the alignment to Wellington where it intersects with the ORP, but I didn't include it as part of the original idea because that section would be the most destructive. You're right though, I believe that covering the Transitway trench and continuing the alignment to Wellington would be easier and less destructive.

[eternallyme]

Reviving a bit of an old thread, but I just had some ideas I wanted to share and see if they could be improved upon. I admit, it might be a little pie-in-the-sky as some of the costs might make it prohibitive, but I think envisioning on a grander scale makes for a much more beautiful city.

I always thought Richmond Road (from about Golden Ave. to Bayshore) could be turned into a beautiful main street through the heart of Westboro. I would close Byron Avenue and relocate Richmond Road to the middle of the ROW, maintaining any access to Richmond Road that exists on Byron Avenue (thought: maybe make smaller accesses RIRO to reduce the number of traffic signals? Although traffic signals do make for slower progression of traffic so people aren't racing down the street). I want to be careful here in the comparison I make, but I envision it to be the same IDEA as the Champs-Elysees in Paris: wide, pedestrian-friendly sidewalks lined with trees and benches (the ROW is definitely wide enough) and street-oriented commercial and residential (3-6 storeys). Obviously it won't even be close to the same scale as the Champs-Elysees. I make Richmond 2 lanes/direction, with the right lane used for on-street parking, have very wide sidewalks to encourage walking instead of driving, and, if possible, have segregated bike lanes. And, worst-case scenario, the sidewalks should be wide enough to allow road widening when/if major traffic capacity issues become unworkable, all the while maintaining the pedestrian-friendliness.

Now, surely as soon as I mentioned that I wanted to relocate Richmond Road to the middle of the ROW most of you were thinking "What about transit?". Well this is the part where I think the costs might make this a little prohibitive. I would envision transit being completely buried in this corridor. The cut-and-cover tunnel could be coordinated with the relocation and reconstruction of the road (Note: we could have done this on Bank Street had there been a little more forward thinking), and the 3-6 storey streetscape would be modified to be more high-density around the stations. The corridor from Fraser to Lincoln Fields would be the main western connection. Lincoln Fields would be configured as a hub station with high density surrounding it. The transitway would branch off at Lincoln Fields to the south (Baseline, Barrhaven) and the west (Bayshore, Kanata). The western corridor would tunnel under Carling (potentially bored to reduce disruption on Carling) to Richmond and down Richmond to Bayshore.

I think having fast, reliable, grade-separated transit along this corridor will not only make transit more enticing for those seeking to get downtown, but it will also make Richmond Road a new 24-hour (or well at least off-peak) destination easily accessed by transit, bike, foot, and (for those who are married to their car) by car.

A few issues:
- The ROW shrinks after the ORP and even more so after Carling. I'm having difficulty thinking of how a section as described above could be implemented without massive expropriation of small houses between Grenon and Bayshore.
- A similar problem exists from Ambleside to Golden where it's mostly townhouses on the South side of the corridor, and from Wavell to Fraser where townhouses also exist on the north side
- Another issue that stems from the above two is not only the potential expropriation, but also how to well integrate the desired 3-6 storey streetfront buildings with the rest of the surrounding neighbourhood
- NIMBYs

I would hope to one day extend Richmond Road all the way through Hintonburg and Mechanicsville and connect to Wellington Road. Richmond/Wellington Road could be Ottawa's Robson Street or Rue Saint-Catherine.

This is definitely a work in progress when I can find time off school work, and I'm working on a conceptual map at the moment. Your input (comments, criticisms, and suggestions) would be greatly appreciated!

Extend the Richmond Road plan through Bells Corners (as Robertson Road) and even Kanata and Stittsville (as Hazeldean Road).

The section between Carling and Bayshore is a difficult one, though, as the frontage is high-density residential for the most part. There is also little room just to widen it to 4 lanes, which would be necessary anyway for such a project to proceed.

The Richmond/Byron couplet, with transit in the median, would work quite well. The transit corridor would be at the surface from New Orchard to Fraser, except for a dip underneath Woodroffe to maintain continuity. Several pedestrian underpasses or overpasses could be constructed (about one every 400m), as at-grade crossings would be unsafe. All streets in the area except for Woodroffe would be RIRO access only.

[McC]

Yeah I did mean using the Wellington West and continuing the alignment to Wellington where it intersects with the ORP, but I didn't include it as part of the original idea because that section would be the most destructive. You're right though, I believe that covering the Transitway trench and continuing the alignment to Wellington would be easier and less destructive.

I think you need to spend some more time looking at the map, the lost segment of Wellington St from the eastern end of Wellington West to the western end of Wellington St would be the "least destructive" of what you're talking about (unless you're talking about flattening the buildings on either side of the existing Wellington West to widen the street - which would be crazy!), there's nothing on that alignment except the train tracks, Albert St and the Transitway (not in a trench in this area - it rises out of the trench east of Pinhey/Stonehurst), Lebreton Flats is still empty, and you just need to navigate the road, rail and transit crossings.

[matty14]

I think you need to spend some more time looking at the map, the lost segment of Wellington St from the eastern end of Wellington West to the western end of Wellington St would be the "least destructive" of what you're talking about (unless you're talking about flattening the buildings on either side of the existing Wellington West to widen the street - which would be crazy!), there's nothing on that alignment except the train tracks, Albert St and the Transitway (not in a trench in this area - it rises out of the trench east of Pinhey/Stonehurst), Lebreton Flats is still empty, and you just need to navigate the road, rail and transit crossings.

Hmm sorry perhaps I wasn't clear before. What I meant is exactly what you are saying. The ROW is only two lanes wide from about Churchill to the end of Wellington West, and trying to make a four-lane boulevard with wide sidewalks would require pretty much decimating the entire street and building from scratch. Very destructive. Taking the road from Richmond up to the Transitway trench at about Denbury would no doubt be much less destructive, although some open park space would be lost (could be a problem with the NCC). Then, the road would follow Scott Street/Albert Street back to Wellington.

Again, I am aware that this plan is very pie-in-the-sky, high cost, and fairly destructive. Just throwing some ideas out there on how (if at all) Richmond can be revitalized. For some reason, I just always envisioned Richmond Road being a really nice main street. And I think there are a few places on the corridor that could use a bit of intensification, including:
- That strip mall between Cleary and just past Redwood
- Pretty much everything on the North/West side of Richmond between Cleary and Woodroffe (except a couple high rises)

To be honest, I am in school to be an engineer, so what little I know of urban planning comes from reading a couple books and articles, and reading the board here lol. Kind of a learning process for me. Hope I was able to clarify things for you.

[Kitchissippi]

For the ultimate in utopian wet dreams, we could take the swath of railway lands in the south and turn it into the manifestation of the old linear city fantasy. It could hold over a hundred thousand people! Transit hub, climate controlled streets — heck who needs to go south in the winter! And if you like there could be a rood top park run by a conservancy. OK, maybe I'm just looking for something else to read other than the Lansdowne debate...:haha:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5535939514_5541d84121_b.jpg

http://www.photographex.com/LinearCity/Res/Onglets/2.jpg

http://www.photographex.com/LinearCity/Res/Onglets/15.gif
From Gilles Gauthier's website (http://www.photographex.com/LinearCity/)