The race for Mayor: Poll 1 June

[Wooster]

Thought perhaps we could do a monthly poll leading up to the vote for Mayor on October 18th to see how sentiment changes as the race goes on.

With Dianne Colley-Urquhart declaring she's not running, this sausage party is now well underway and it looks like this could be the field of candidates going forward.

It is early, but many of us know the records or generally what many of what the candidates are about, even as full platforms have yet to be revealed. It will be interesting to see how people's preferences change as platforms are revealed and key election issues emerge.

So, based on what you know who is your current pick for Mayor, and why?

[Ferreth]

Right now the Moose is my choice. We need a change in Silly Hall. Out with the humans!

[Ramsayfarian]

I'm voting for cowboy ethics because I missed the moose entry.

[mersar]

I'm thinking just to make things fair if we're going to do this do we want to set a close date on the poll so we can compare? Say let this one run until mid of july so we do one month blocks prior to the election?

[bob1954]

Ya! Hopefully the moose runs THROUGH silly hall... runs over a few alderman! Every city needs something like that to happen.

[wild wild west]

Well, at this early stage I am leaning heavily towards Naheed Nenshi. None of the Aldermen who are running is up for the job IMO, and the assorted other candidates coming out of the woodwork seem to offer that derivative of "wiser use of tax dollars, citing the Calatrava-designed pedestrian bridge as an example of wasteful spending at City Hall" as the main plank in their platform. Nenshi will, I think, offer a more complete platform. I find him to be an insightful and convincing speaker and writer, even if I don't always agree with everything he says.

I am far, far more concerned about wasteful government spending at the Federal and Provincial level than I am at the Municipal level. Municipal tax burden is a tiny fraction of our overall tax bill, thus doesn't resonate with me a whole lot.

[Bigtime]

We're being watched, this thread just got posted on Twitter with the #yycvote hashtag.

I hope some new members come on board and add to our discussions here!

[Wooster]

Craig Burrows? anyone? anyone?

[srperrycgy]

I'm involved in a focus group this evening. I suspect it will involve the City in some way based on the survey I did last week. If it was about the election, that would be fabulous. :cool:

8:22pm Edit: The focus group wasn't about the election, but about one City Dept. Was fun and made $75 for the effort.

[wild wild west]

Looks like Nenshi's running away with it, at least on SSP.

[Wooster]

Looks like the only question moving forward is whether the moose has the chance to catch Nenshi.

[phughes]

I'm thinking just to make things fair if we're going to do this do we want to set a close date on the poll so we can compare? Say let this one run until mid of july so we do one month blocks prior to the election?
Apparently your vote is not confidential/private as @joshwhiteCGY has shared on twitter. Maybe you could add that note to the poll...

[Wooster]

Apparently your vote is not confidential/private as @joshwhiteCGY has shared on twitter. Maybe you could add that note to the poll...

Yes indeed, but it actually looks like the moderator has changed that now. The next one I'll make the individual voter not visible, probably more effective that way. But I would encourage people to share why they support/don't support particular candidates as well.

I'm glad you voted for yourself. It would be a bit disconcerting if you were backing Bob Hawksworth or someone else!! :)

[fusili]

I support Nenshi because he has the best grasp on what I see as the most important issues facing the city:

- Tax policy
- Infrastructure financing
- Budget practices and accountability
- Infrastructure policies and priorities

[jeffwhit]

I'm glad you voted for yourself. It would be a bit disconcerting if you were backing Bob Hawksworth or someone else!! :)

It would be even more disconcerting if he voted for Joe Connelly.

[jeffwhit]

The fact that Nenshi specializes in Not-For-Profit management is what makes him most attractive to me. That is what the city essentially is, a NFP. People like Connelly who use Business analogies might attract the kind of people that use ROB Magazine as spank material, but it's not, in my opinion a useful way to look at Civic Management.

Also, Nenshi understands what a platform and policy actually is. I'm getting tired of candidates making grand declarations like "I will bring the world to Calgary" and "I will make Calgary Safer" and think that is what passes for policy.

Looking forward to our new SSP member candidates sharing their's.

[fusili]

Also, Nenshi understands what a platform and policy actually is. I'm getting tired of candidates making grand declarations like "I will bring the world to Calgary" and "I will make Calgary Safer" and think that is what passes for policy.

Looking forward to our new SSP member candidates sharing their's.

Exactly! There is a big difference between values and policies. Who doesn't want a safe city? Who doesn't want efficient transit? Good parks? A robust economy? In a city, people all pretty much agree on most things (not saying there are not conflicts).

What separates candidates is how they plan to address these issues. That is why policy matters. Everyone else seems to understand what their values are, but have no idea how to implement them in reality. Nenshi seems to be the only one who really grasps the ramifications of different policy options.

[wild wild west]

/\I wouldn't even call them values. They're more like little sound bites to catch the attention of voters. I just hope the average voter sees past rhetoric about "designer bridges" etc. and thinks long and hard about what kind of city they want, and whether they can spare a few extra bucks a month to invest in important infrastructure. And really, if it's all about taxes, none of the supposedly fiscally conservative candidates have an accounting background as far as I know, so who's to say Joe Connelly will spend your money more wisely than Naheed?

[srperrycgy]

Saw this interesting sign at Sarcee @ 17th Ave SW:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4744230456_e0a43318de.jpg

Not just for Mayor, but AS Mayor. :rolleyes:

[TallDrinkofWater]

Looks like Nenshi's running away with it, at least on SSP.http://www.eyespysunglasses.com/s/10018/MyProducts/womens_designer_sunglasses_b411.jpg

[Ramsayfarian]

Saw this interesting sign at Sarcee @ 17th Ave SW:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4744230456_e0a43318de.jpg

Not just for Mayor, but AS Mayor. :rolleyes:

I think that's a tongue in cheek reference due to him owning Casablanca Video.

[GoflamesGo]

Is there a place where someone could compare candidates?

[Wooster]

Is there a place where someone could compare candidates?

Here, but most profiles/videos aren't up yet.

http://calgarydemocracy.ca/

There are links to websites however.

[suburb]

Ideas for a Better City: A Reception with Naheed Nenshi
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 from 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (MT)

Looks like all are invited - but you do need to RSVP. Details and RSVP instructions can be found at:
http://meetnaheed.eventbrite.com/?ref=eivtefrnd

I think the fact this is happening at Arts Central is a hint as to what he might have to say. Not sure.

The statement on the on-line invite says:
"Come and learn about Naheed's compelling vision to build a more vibrant, sustainable and prosperous city."

If any of you can make it, please do report here what he had to say and your thoughts. Inherently his method is different from others, IE not $150 tickets, rather, everyone invited and contribute if you wish.

[Wooster]

^ I happen to be in town for this, so I'm attending.

If there are other Nenshi supporters or other people who are interested in attending to hear what he has to say, it would be great to meet up. Perhaps get a beer after.

[Bigtime]

So Wooster, what's the over under on you actually getting a poll on Calpuck?

[Bigtime]

I think I'll try to attend that with Mrs. Bigtime.

[Wooster]

So Wooster, what's the over under on you actually getting a poll on Calpuck?

LOL. I tried with the other thread. I Pmd the mods to get it going. Then just started the thread with a message to the mods in the thread, and also Pmd 5 of the Mods to add a poll. What does a guy have to do?

[fusili]

^ I happen to be in town for this, so I'm attending.

If there are other Nenshi supporters or other people who are interested in attending to hear what he has to say, it would be great to meet up. Perhaps get a beer after.

I could be up for that. Post event discussion and beers is always a good idea.

PS- I have registered. Anyone else going other than Wooster?

[mersar]

I'm going to be there.

[Bigtime]

I may have a "married couple scheduling conflict" but I'm hoping at the very least I can get out of it and attend (while staying out of the doghouse!).

[fusili]

I may have a "married couple scheduling conflict" but I'm hoping at the very least I can get out of it and attend (while staying out of the doghouse!).

Spa day and taking the child for a day will get you out of anything. Absolutely anything.

[MalcolmTucker]

Saw this interesting sign at Sarcee @ 17th Ave SW:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4744230456_e0a43318de.jpg

Not just for Mayor, but AS Mayor. :rolleyes:

Woot illegal signs.

[srperrycgy]

Woot illegal signs.

The interchange construction will likely remove it soon anyway. :rolleyes:

[Wooster]

Same poll in Calgarypuck

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=92599

Will be interesting to see the difference.

[skrish]

Same poll in Calgarypuck

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=92599

Will be interesting to see the difference.

I bet you see a lot more Blinky votes. Surprised that Naheed is leading on calpuck. This gives me some optimism.

[Wooster]

In the CalgaryPuck poll Nenshi is still winning, Hehr is a relatively close second - much higher than he is in the SSP poll. McIver is actually a pretty distant third. Quite a bit of Anybody but McIver sentiment. Alnoor with a few votes, no one else really with any support to speak of.

It will be interesting to see who emerges from Nenshi and Hehr as the choice to challenge McIver, who is no doubt still the frontrunner city-wide. I would hope either one of Nenshi or Hehr, depending on how things shake out would drop out to give the other a better chance. But who knows - that might depend if others like Stewart or Hawksworth drop out if they don't get much traction and who if anyone they throw their support behind.

[Wooster]

Interesting interview with Nenshi on the development industry and its votecalgary.ca initiative as well as campaign finance.

http://blogs.cjsw.com/news/2010/06/30/naheed-nenshis-alberta-view/

[wild wild west]

In the CalgaryPuck poll Nenshi is still winning, Hehr is a relatively close second - much higher than he is in the SSP poll. McIver is actually a pretty distant third. Quite a bit of Anybody but McIver sentiment. Alnoor with a few votes, no one else really with any support to speak of.

It will be interesting to see who emerges from Nenshi and Hehr as the choice to challenge McIver, who is no doubt still the frontrunner city-wide. But who knows - that might depend if others like Stewart or Hawksworth drop out if they don't get much traction and who if anyone they throw their support behind.


I certainly hope one or the other would drop out if it was evident their campaign was floundering, to give the one with stronger support a better chance. I would hope either one of Nenshi or Hehr, depending on how things shake out would drop out to give the other a better chance, since considering how the odds are stacked we can't be splitting the votes too much between candidates who support an urbanist agenda. In fact, not sure how many of the current candidates will actually continue. Guys like Lord and Burrows don't seem to be getting a lot of attention in the media or anywhere, unless things pick up for them I don't see much point in them continuing.

[Policy Wonk]

The moose is my first choice, unfortunately I have to go with Ric McIver.

[MalcolmTucker]

I certainly hope one or the other would drop out if it was evident their campaign was floundering, to give the one with stronger support a better chance. I would hope either one of Nenshi or Hehr, depending on how things shake out would drop out to give the other a better chance, since considering how the odds are stacked we can't be splitting the votes too much between candidates who support an urbanist agenda. In fact, not sure how many of the current candidates will actually continue. Guys like Lord and Burrows don't seem to be getting a lot of attention in the media or anywhere, unless things pick up for them I don't see much point in them continuing.
In a race like this I wouldn't worry about vote splitting, as it hurts the right more than the left in Calgary. See: 2001 election.

[fusili]

The moose is my first choice, unfortunately I have to go with Ric McIver.

SE LRT the reason?

[Wooster]

probably his moustache.

[Policy Wonk]

SE LRT the reason?

I support him completely on that, but also calling bullshit on PlanIt and hopefully coming through with some financial and managerial discipline at city hall.

I just think it is unfortunate you have to go with a hack like McIver to get a little common sense.

[Wooster]

http://politicalgary.blogspot.com/

Politicalgary mayoral poll.

Nenshi has definitely captured the young, online communities. Can he build on that and become the feasible alternative to McIver on a city-wide scale? Hard to say at this point.

[srperrycgy]

It will be interesting to see who the first to drop out of the race will be. :D

[DavidKuitunen]

My vote goes to Naheed hands down.

xtuZr8hot0c

[Wooster]

Amen.

His speech and event yesterday was amazing. He's an excellent speaker, with very substantive ideas. This will be his greatest asset in selling his candidacy.

He's got an uphill battle, but is building a lot of momentum that will hopefully position him well as one of the front runners when the majority of Calgarians start paying attention to the campaign come september.

[jeffwhit]

Isn't it time for a new poll?

[suburb]

He's got an uphill battle, but is building a lot of momentum that will hopefully position him well as one of the front runners when the majority of Calgarians start paying attention to the campaign come september.

He could use some 'celebrity' endorsements. By celebrity, I don't mean Britney Spears, rather, someone that the city inhabitants recognize and have known for a long time. I know that star UCalgary business Professor Bob Shulz is a big Nenshi fan, but Bob would only be known within certain circles. I fully suspect that Naheed is already thinking along these lines ...

[suburb]

Article by Boris on Remotely Urban:

REF (http://remurb.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/nenshi-says-what/)
Nenshi says what?

http://remurb.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/p1020244-300x225.png?w=300&h=225
Nenshi, now with 20% more Moose

If Skyscraperpage forumers voted now (right now, July 7, 2010), Naheed Nenshi would be mayor of Calgary, according to the latest results on the forum poll. He leads the vote by 57%.

The moose who ran through downtown would be the next strongest contender, trailing behind at 23% of the vote. Still, that’s well ahead of third and fourth place, Ric McIver and Kent Hehr, who are tied at 6%. The moose hasn’t officially entered his name into the contest and could not be reached for comment.

While these numbers greatly exaggerate the base of support that Nenshi currently has (we are talking about a fairly close community of skyscraper and urban enthusiasts here), it does come at a time when the Mount Royal professor has kicked off his campaign with a speech at Arts Central. The Political Calgary blog ranks Nenshi’s twitter usage just behind Paul Hughes and ahead of Craig Burrows, in terms of Authenticity, Effectiveness, and Uniqueness. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Nenshi is one of the best at getting his message out there — a lot of people don’t use these social networking tools and the print media seems asleep on the job — but it does offer him an opportunity to go viral.

Interestingly, the poll results for Nenshi on Political Calgary correlate with the one on SSP, showing him ahead at 54%. I suspect the support some other candidates picked up in that poll is largely due to the moose’s absence.

No really, Nenshi says what?

The candidates are still setting up their platforms, and we have a while yet until this election gets into full steam. So it’s understandable that not all the information is out there yet. Heck, my parents had no idea who Nenshi was until I showed them his site. And it seems like academic is the new black.

To break it down quickly, Nenshi is releasing his platform in alphabetical order and has 4 main planks so far:

Accountability

Better Management

Congestion

Dollars

Now, that ought to seem fairly simple. A and B are pretty closely tied however, as the first is about better auditing and b is about better oversight. We could just combine them and start talking about Better ABs.

Nenshi, during his speech the other night, also mentioned the importance of the built environment in attracting and retaining talents (he might be familiar with the work of Richard Florida, who knows?). There is also the matter of the environment, and all that other fun stuff.

The one issue that stands out among the others: the airport tunnel debacle. Nenshi promised the crowd at Arts Central that he would fight hard to get this thing built, and I hope if he gets elected that he can follow through on that promise.

[Wooster]

Story about the Calgary Mayor's race in the G & M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/calgary-mayoral-race-features-a-mixed-bag-of-candidates/article1637582/

[Bigtime]

Wayne Stewart's camp just released this poll result via twitter, anyone heard of 'The Alberta Courage Network' before?

http://www.albertacourage.net/ACNPollResultsJuly2010.pdf

[Yume-sama]

Nenshi strikes me as oddly authentic, and someone who is easy to relate to. For a politician, that kind of scares me :P

But, I think I'd lean towards him, for a term.

[MalcolmTucker]

Wayne Stewart's camp just released this poll result via twitter, anyone heard of 'The Alberta Courage Network' before?

http://www.albertacourage.net/ACNPollResultsJuly2010.pdf

From what I gather the poll was a self selecting sample/ much like if the Calgary Herald ran an online poll. Their website itself says "Take the Poll and have your say."

It really isn't a poll, more of a survey.

[Wooster]

From what I gather the poll was a self selecting sample/ much like if the Calgary Herald ran an online poll. Their website itself says "Take the Poll and have your say."

It really isn't a poll, more of a survey.

Or much like the poll on this site. :)

[Bigtime]

Pssh, whatever Wooster. You don't even live in this city, thus your opinion counts for zero to me...ZERO!


;)

[bob1954]

Why is Stewart so unpopular? The guy sounds like he's pretty accomplished and has been involved in homeless issues. He's an x-CEO, got some pretty good credentials and some big ideas, I like that.

[mersar]

Why is Stewart so unpopular? The guy sounds like he's pretty accomplished and has been involved in homeless issues. He's an x-CEO, got some pretty good credentials and some big ideas, I like that.

I think the thing is that no one knows anything about him. Having the credentials and ideas is fine, but when no one knows he has them it won't matter much. Granted it is early still, but he's got essentially 3 months to become a well known person in the city and so far aside from an ad on a bus I've seen zero from him.

[Bigtime]

He wants to waste a bunch of money on an Olympics bid that is sure to fail due to the proximity of the Vancouver games.

That right there is reason enough for me to doubt him.

[Wooster]

Stewart might be ok, who knows, but if you follow his twitter you'll realize that this article about empty rhetoric and jargon applies particularly well to him.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/op-ed/campaign+gobbledy/3264737/story.html

I agree that the 2022 olympic bid idea is also a fool's errand.

[MalcolmTucker]

Stewart might be ok, who knows, but if you follow his twitter you'll realize that this article about empty rhetoric and jargon applies particularly well to him.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/op-ed/campaign+gobbledy/3264737/story.html

I agree that the 2022 olympic bid idea is also a fool's errand.

It wouldn't even get past the Canada Olympic Committee, Quebec City has indicated it wants to bid, and if it can get the financial ducks in a row, will be much stronger than a Calgary bid.

Still, not the worst idea to put forward, even if bidding for the Commonwealth Games might be more appropriate.

[Bigtime]

Nenshi just released his plan for the airport runway tunnel:

http://www.nenshi.ca/new/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Better-Idea-4-Access-to-Airport.pdf

[Bigtime]

Just read it, can't say I agree with his comments about changing the board of YYC if necessary. Those folks are doing a great job, and why can't people understand that delaying the parallel runway is delaying SAFER operations at YYC? The CAA has done a great job of expanding the airport and attracting new services:

-Lufthansa
-Mexicana
-KLM
-British Airways
-AC to Tokyo
-Korean to Seoul (1 month this summer)
-Edelweiss to Zurich

...and many many more. They are running the airport as a business competing with others (YVR and YEG specifically) and we don't want to take the teeth from them by cramming the board with a bunch of dithering politicians.

He suggests pushing the Barlow closure from April 2011 to summer of 2011, even those few months can make all the difference in getting this new runway up and running.

[fusili]

Nenshi just released his plan for the airport runway tunnel:

http://www.nenshi.ca/new/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Better-Idea-4-Access-to-Airport.pdf

Although you can probably disagree with some of the ideas, the thing I really respect about Nenshi is that he actually tells you how he proposes to do things. It is not just, "Let's build a tunnel to the airport" it is "we will borrow $250 million using the City's debt capacity and delay the closure of Barlow trail." It is something you can respond to. Something you can actually talk about and discuss. Saying things like "we need a safer city" doesn't really mean anything at all to me.

[Wooster]

Although you can probably disagree with some of the ideas, the thing I really respect about Nenshi is that he actually tells you how he proposes to do things. It is not just, "Let's build a tunnel to the airport" it is "we will borrow $250 million using the City's debt capacity and delay the closure of Barlow trail." It is something you can respond to. Something you can actually talk about and discuss. Saying things like "we need a safer city" doesn't really mean anything at all to me.

Fully agree.

[Bigtime]

Damn straight Fusili.

[halifaxboyns]

Saw this on global and thought I would post it for FYI.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Djswx-bNpys&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Djswx-bNpys&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[bob1954]

The idea of the Olympic bid in regards to Stewart, was mostly an "eye catcher" and probably doesn't mean much. But I'm one that likes big ideas. The problem is excecution and follow thru with the plans, but that's an opinion.

[mooky]

Eye catchers still have to be based in reality. The reality of a winning or even seriously considered Canadian bid for the Winter Olympics before 2032 (22 years after Van and 44 after Calgary) has no basis in reality. Why propose something that makes you sound like a windbag politician unless you either are an idiot, or assume the electorate is stupid enough to buy it? Either prospect is bad in my books.

EDIT: an eye catcher in my books would be a grandiose scheme to fully fund several legs of LRT expansion and enhancement :D

[Boris2k7]

I've read the Airport Tunnel release from Nenshi a few times through, and it seems pretty well grounded (I'll raise a few quibbles here and there).

The one thing that still sticks out to me is this line:

Negotiate to delay the closure of Barlow Trail from April 2011 to summer 2011, when Metis Trail is complete. Although the Airport Authority has said it is not willing to negotiate, the City has leverage that it has not yet chosen to use.
http://www.nenshi.ca/new/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Better-Idea-4-Access-to-Airport.pdf

Anyone know what leverage he might be alluding to? I'm not sure I know enough about the relationship between the CAA and the City to pin that one down.

[MalcolmTucker]

I am not exactly sure, but numerous airport authorities around the country are 'creatures' of the city government - not always the case but certainly not unusual.

The city if it was serious about building could get the airport to slow down in any case, cash just needs to be on the table, not just a possibility.

[Bigtime]

We slow down that expansion and we could lose ground to YEG. They are gunning for us, make no mistake.

[halifaxboyns]

I would assume that some of the capital cost of operating the airport comes from the city in some way shape or form - they don't pay taxes, but yet utilize city services such as roads and utilities?

Perhaps that's a way to leverage them?

[mersar]

Anyone know what leverage he might be alluding to? I'm not sure I know enough about the relationship between the CAA and the City to pin that one down.

Only thing that immediately comes to mind might be servicing (water, sewer, etc) for some of the new tradepark area on the NW corner of the airport. Or maybe the future interchange at 19th Street which the airport authority envisions being the primary access to the terminal?

[Bigtime]

Yeah this makes a lot of sense, lets strong-arm an organization that is actually beneficial to the city because the city itself didn't plan ahead for a runway that has been on the books for years!

Does anyone else hear how crazy that sounds?

[mooky]

It is stupid, but put into perspective, *if* the new mayor gets the ball rolling and *if* he is able to get the airport tunnel approved and funded and *if * it would only result in a three month delay in closing Barlow Trail, then 3 months is not too much to ask/demand of the YYC airport authority to save potentially $200 million or more taxpayer dollars. The world is not going to end on a three month delay. But there are a lot of ifs to overcome first. For now I think the airport authority will just continue along with plans as scheduled.

[Bigtime]

I can accept 3 months, but anymore is just getting stupid.

[suburb]

I can accept 3 months, but anymore is just getting stupid.

I'd agree with the spirit of that comment - and at the same time would reiterate that this is what is being proposed by Naheed also as being a required compromise to make things work. I think the discussion got away from three months, which was not suggested in the first place.

Fact is, navigating all complex situations and scenarios is not about yes and no answers, but about being thoughtful about the underlying issues, and then navigating a solution that, yes involves some compromises, but at the same time deals with the biggest issues stopping the city from getting to where it needs to be. Remember also that some of these complex scenarios are interrelated to other 'planks'. This is a good example where the tunnel is connected to public transportation in general - and the navigated solutions we demand must be thoughtful enough to take considerations like public transportation into account.

BTW - given how much we've seen Naheed engage people, if there are refinements that can improve the proposal, he'd certainly be willing to listen. We have to give him credit either way though, as at least he is proposing thoughtful solutions. He's way ahead of the curve in my books.

[outoftheice]

EDIT: an eye catcher in my books would be a grandiose scheme to fully fund several legs of LRT expansion and enhancement :D

I fully agree!! What we need is a candidate who's willing to make a strong stand on transit. Somebody needs to present the fact to Calgarians that transit is not simply a transportation tool but the greatest tool for development that the city has at its disposal.

Take for instance the North Central LRT. From speaking to people at Transit Open Houses, it is my understanding that a subway route up Centre Street is the preferred option from a planning perspective. However because of the added cost of a subway, the City is leaning towards building it up the Nose Creek Valley. Looking at this simply from a transportation angle, this decision does make some sense. However what about looking at it from a planning model? Implementing Plan It: Calgary was estimated to save the City $11.2 Billion in infrastructure costs over the long term. One of the key parts of Plan It: is turning Centre Street into an urban corridor and encouraging redevelopment along its length. As of right now, how will that be done? Beats me. But if the NC LRT was built up Centre Street, I guarantee that investment and redevelopment along the corridor will immediately follow!

So what about cost? Well a rough estimate of building a combined Centre Street subway/proposed SE LRT line is $3.1 Billion. It's a big number and would probably raise a few eyebrows with tax payers. However, the municipalities of the GTA along with the Ontario Government have committed $17.5 Billion towards the MoveOntario 2020 rapid transit initiative. That's roughly 5 times the funding Calgary would require for an area that has about 5 times the population of Calgary. The only difference between us and them is political will power. Any candidate who can see the value in pushing a Centre Street subway/SE LRT will be able to dramatically change the development pattern in the City and give taxpayers their best shot at the $11.2 Billion in savings of Plan It:.

The province just gave us $800 Million in Green Trip funding to play with. Using that to build part of the SE LRT is good. But being able to leverage that into a P3 partnership so that the City could cover the $3.1 Billion cost of a combined Centre Street subway/SE LRT would be visionary. Because this new line would be completely seperate from the exisiting LRT infrastructure, it could be put out to an open bid for all the big transportation players in the world. I have no doubt that there would be a few that would love to take away the monopoly Siemens currently enjoys in the Alberta market.

Is there a candidate out there that can see this as a long term solution to a lot of the city's problems? I don't know. But I don't think the timing will ever be better for this to happen. What we need is the right person to step up to the plate!

cheers,
outoftheice
PS: It has been mentioned in the Transit thread before, but for those interested in reading a more in-depth arguement about the benefits of a Centre Street subway, you can find it at http://www.growsmart.ca

[MalcolmTucker]

P3s are just another way to 'borrow' money, just like borrowing they eat up money that could otherwise be used to build things later. Not that I am saying borrowing or P3s are bad, because they aren't. Just that P3s don't create 'free' money.

[Jack Doe]

Regarding the airport tunnel:

Presumably it will take 2-3 construction seasons to build the tunnel and associated roadways. People in the NE will have to put up with the inconvienence of Barlow Trail being closed for some time. Adding another three months is not a lot to ask for, considering what they will get in return.

The big question is, will this delay the opening of the new runway?

[outoftheice]

P3s are just another way to 'borrow' money, just like borrowing they eat up money that could otherwise be used to build things later. Not that I am saying borrowing or P3s are bad, because they aren't. Just that P3s don't create 'free' money.

I agree that P3s are just another way to borrow money and that eventually they will eat up more many than a public funding model. However, they have proven to be generally accepted by taxpayers in the Calgary area where-as if the government borrowed the money to fund the project themselves I think it would be viewed as an unpopular decision. As I mentioned before, I think we should look at the Centre Street subway as a planning tool to strategically encourage investment and development. Because development and growth tends to build upon itself, that means that the sooner the LRT line is built, the bigger the impact will be long term. So although the cost of a P3 project will be with the City over a 30 year term, the fact that it would allow immediate construction on the Centre Street subway means that the benefits would be compounded over those same 30 years. With any luck it may even become cost neutral to the City as the $3.1 Billion cost of construction translates into $3.1 Billion in savings because future infrastructure is no longer needed as densification occurs along the Centre Street and SE LRT corridor.