Poppy Plaza

[mersar]

Just noticed this up on the U of C home page:

Public space design wins awards
http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/utoday/january25-2010/memorial
January 25th, 2010

http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/files/news/images/memorial_drive.jpgThese artistic renderings were part of the design submission by marc boutin architectural collaboration inc.

The design of one of Calgary’s newest public spaces, led by a Faculty of Environmental Design professor and several alumni, has won two prestigious awards: the Canadian Architect Award of Merit and the City of Calgary’s Mayor’s Urban Design Award.

The Poppy Plaza is the first of many public spaces to be created as part of the second phase of Memorial Drive: Landscape of Memory, a City of Calgary effort led by the marc boutin architectural collaborative inc (MBAC) and Stantec Consulting. MBAC is the firm of Marc Boutin, a Faculty of Environmental Design professor, and includes several EVDS alumni including Mike DeBoer, Jerry Hacker, Sean Knight, Tony Leong, Mauricio Rosa, Kristin St. Arnault and Nick Standeven.

“The project’s goal is to revamp Memorial Drive and develop a space that commemorates Canada’s role during wartime, while offering a much needed contribution to the city’s fledgling public realm,” says Boutin.

The existing site is characterized as a residual green space, adjacent to the intersection of Memorial Drive and 10th Street. North of the site is the Kensington neighbourhood and south of the site is the Bow River. While the site’s grade slopes steeply southward to the river, it lacks an appropriate connection to the water.

...Another project thats part of the upgrades being done along Memorial Drive. Personally I think it looks good and will change the current feeling of the pathway along there which is very utilitarian right now.

[ue]

I like! Looks like it'll be a great accent piece to the Kensington neighborhood and the River system. I really like the shapes in the pavement and the little seats (are they seats?). Real nice Calgary!

[polishavenger]

its small improvements like this that go a very long way in improving a cities urban fabric. I am looking forward to seeing this done, along with the upgrades along the elbow river in mission.

[O-tacular]

So this is what that park will look like. Very nice! Memorial is ramping up to be the nicest drive in the city.

[Wooster]

I really like what I see! Marc Boutin's site has some more small images of this project too.

[Wooster]

its small improvements like this that go a very long way in improving a cities urban fabric. I am looking forward to seeing this done, along with the upgrades along the elbow river in mission.

I couldn't agree more. We're doing a good job of upgrading our pathways and some parks, now it's time to focus on some of our streetscapes too.

[frinkprof]

So this is what that park will look like. Very nice! Memorial is ramping up to be the nicest drive in the city.Not if they keep closing it to have street parties for latte-sipping social engineers!

[Wooster]

Not if they keep closing it to have street parties for social engineers!

don't forget the latte-sipping elitists!

silly hall.

[srperrycgy]

Sssshhh.....don't tell Blinky. ;)

[frinkprof]

On a serious note, this is a highly visible and high profile spot, and it's good that it will be made to look more attractive. I'd like to see some more renderings though.

[O-tacular]

Not if they keep closing it to have street parties for latte-sipping social engineers!

I never heard anything about this being the site of a war memorial! It's just political posturing to waste taxpayer money! ;)

[ue]

couldnt find anything on when this will be completed?

[oldschoolcalgary]

slowly taking shape

http://img157.imagevenue.com/loc224/th_131341874_IMG_0338_122_224lo.JPG (http://img157.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=131341874_IMG_0338_122_224lo.JPG) http://img256.imagevenue.com/loc560/th_313457143_IMG_0345_122_560lo.JPG (http://img256.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=313457143_IMG_0345_122_560lo.JPG) http://img147.imagevenue.com/loc139/th_313493286_IMG_0356_122_139lo.JPG (http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=313493286_IMG_0356_122_139lo.JPG)

[freeweed]

Ah, thanks for the thread bump. I saw those panels on the weekend. I was regaling my rafting mates with stories about the new Riverwalk we were going to shortly pass by, and the robo-toilet - which came in extremely handy - and then we saw these. So of course they asked me what they were, and I had no clue.

Are they supposed to look like crappy rusted metal, or is that just until they're "finished"? I felt a certain sense of irony because the banks of the Bow used to be littered with scraps of rusted metal before the big cleanup started in the 1960s.

[Bigtime]

I think that is the final look for the metal, and I love it. Can't wait for this whole section of the memorial pathway to be opened up, maybe even with a new bridge.

[oldschoolcalgary]

they be hoping for the steel to get a to a deeper reddish color...for a memorial, the rusting is actually something selected so that there wouldn't be the need for yearly maintenance, and if someone tags its, the hope is that you'd simply sand blast it and it will eventually rust back...

apparently, the interesting stuff is still to come...

[Bigtime]

they be hoping for the steel to get a to a deeper reddish color...for a memorial, the rusting is actually something selected so that there wouldn't be the need for yearly maintenance, and if someone tags its, the hope is that you'd simply sand blast it and it will eventually rust back...

apparently, the interesting stuff is still to come...

I hope nobody has the lack of respect to tag art that reflects on the sacrifice and the commitment of those that have served.

If anyone does the authorities should be allowed to catch them and let a group of infantryman beat the shit out of them.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I hope nobody has the lack of respect to tag art that reflects on the sacrifice and the commitment of those that have served.

If anyone does the authorities should be allowed to catch them and let a group of infantryman beat the shit out of them.

well, interestingly enough, I noticed the retaining walls had been tagged prior to the corten install - but no one touched the corten, even though they happened to be beside each other...

but you never know - I heard the soldier's memorial (just west of 10th st) was tagged on the marble, but it looks like it has been removed...

no accounting for idiots unfortunately

[polishavenger]

I hope nobody has the lack of respect to tag art that reflects on the sacrifice and the commitment of those that have served.

If anyone does the authorities should be allowed to catch them and let a group of infantryman beat the shit out of them.

I agree that taggers should be treated very harshly, perhaps broken hands might make them think twice. Its the nerve of damaging other peoples property that really gets to me. If you want to spray paint something, do it to your own stuff.

On a more project specific note, is it just me, or is this the never ending project. I swear that its being going on for nearly two years now with no end in sight.

[Bigtime]

It has definitely been going on for a couple of years, but it looks like things must be getting near to the end. Looks like they moved a lot of dirt for the new landscaping and pathway layouts.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I agree that taggers should be treated very harshly, perhaps broken hands might make them think twice. Its the nerve of damaging other peoples property that really gets to me. If you want to spray paint something, do it to your own stuff.

On a more project specific note, is it just me, or is this the never ending project. I swear that its being going on for nearly two years now with no end in sight.

i think the site along the river's edge has been challenging, not only due to the multiple levels of bureaucracy that need to be navigated (due to proximity to the river)...but also the geometries of the steel involved...and the instability of the soil/organics there...

no question, its been taking a long time however.

[DizzyEdge]

With the state of technology now I'd like to see tiny hidden cameras pointed at sites like this to deal with taggers.

[polishavenger]

With the state of technology now I'd like to see tiny hidden cameras pointed at sites like this to deal with taggers.

I'd prefer marauding gangs of vigilantes with baseball bats. They can take care of the problem on the spot if the need arises.

[Ramsayfarian]

The rust is a horrible choice. The new memorial looks like it's been neglected and forgotten about. I think we owe those who made the ultimate sacrifice a bit more respect and not worry about on going maintenance costs.

Saying it's to prevent tagging sounds like another bullshit story coming from the powers that be. I don't think taggers have gotten that bad yet. Not only would I be surprised if a tagger hit a war memorial, there are coatings that can be applied that ease in the removal of said tags.

[oldschoolcalgary]

The rust is a horrible choice. The new memorial looks like it's been neglected and forgotten about. I think we owe those who made the ultimate sacrifice a bit more respect and not worry about on going maintenance costs.

Saying it's to prevent tagging sounds like another bullshit story coming from the powers that be. I don't think taggers have gotten that bad yet. Not only would I be surprised if a tagger hit a war memorial, there are coatings that can be applied that ease in the removal of said tags.

all subjective really - what would have you chosen for a wall surface that runs 300-400 meters? Maintenance plays a huge role in any city project, and while suggesting the city "damn the costs, its for our veterans dammit" is nice in theory, i'd bet that most people would say the opposite and that this memorial isn't even needed.

I think the rusting brings a kind of solemn tone imo and I like it.

[freeweed]

The rust is a horrible choice. The new memorial looks like it's been neglected and forgotten about. I think we owe those who made the ultimate sacrifice a bit more respect and not worry about on going maintenance costs.

I think you and I may be in the minority here, but I guarantee you that's the reaction you'll see from the general public too. I was rather taken aback that this is the final surface. From the river it literally looks like rusted scrap metal, or a half-way completed and abandoned construction project. Basically exactly like the pictures of the Bow from when it was literally a dump.

To me this is a little like taking Piss Christ (in itself a wonderful work of art) and using it to advertise your church. Wrong place, wrong symbolism.

[Ramsayfarian]

all subjective really - what would have you chosen for a wall surface that runs 300-400 meters? Maintenance plays a huge role in any city project, and while suggesting the city "damn the costs, its for our veterans dammit" is nice in theory, i'd bet that most people would say the opposite and that this memorial isn't even needed.

I think the rusting brings a kind of solemn tone imo and I like it.

Well I haven't given it much thought up to now, but if given the task, I think I could come up with a better material than rusty iron.

I also think that maintenance costs is just more BS being passed on to the public from the City much like the Peace Bridge being a tribute to Canada's Peace keepers.

In general I like the look of the project, but think the rust is a poor choice for a war memorial. When I think of rust, I think of neglect and disrepair. Of something forgotten.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Well I haven't given it much thought up to now, but if given the task, I think I could come up with a better material than rusty iron.

I also think that maintenance costs is just more BS being passed on to the public from the City much like the Peace Bridge being a tribute to Canada's Peace keepers.

In general I like the look of the project, but think the rust is a poor choice for a war memorial. When I think of rust, I think of neglect and disrepair. Of something forgotten.


Fair enough - like any art, there is definitely some subjectivity involved... we'll see what the Sun says about it (though I can probably guess)...

[nick.flood]

From what I could see today through the fence, it appears there may be lighting behind the panels. Could create an interesting effect with the words lit up at night.

[Bigtime]

From what I could see today through the fence, it appears there may be lighting behind the panels. Could create an interesting effect with the words lit up at night.

If lit well that could be a very nice feature.

I think the rust will provide a very nice contrast year round with the colours in our city. I think it could look absolutely striking during the winter contrasted to the white of the snow, and right now in the summer surrounded by green it adds yet another contrast. Like something from the past that serves to remind us of the deeds done then.

[polishavenger]

I havent really looked to closely at it, but I like the way the rust color looks.

[tdurden5573]

I really like the rust look, especially for a memorial. I'm actually really impressed with the work the city has been doing all along the river, even if it is a never ending project. This should be a good social gathering place right across from Kensington. I have a feeling it will be well used.

I look forward to seeing how the city changes the south side of the river where BowTrail goes now.

[freeweed]

I think the rust will provide a very nice contrast year round with the colours in our city. I think it could look absolutely striking during the winter contrasted to the white of the snow, and right now in the summer surrounded by green it adds yet another contrast. Like something from the past that serves to remind us of the deeds done then.

Except for the many many months of brown in this city (ie: most of them)... I agree with you. ;)

Most of my years here have seen 2-3 months of green, tops. And maybe 3 weeks in the winter with any serious amount of snow sticking around.

[kw5150]

The rust is perfect.

[Bigtime]

Except for the many many months of brown in this city (ie: most of them)... I agree with you. ;)

I was waiting for someone to say that. I still like the rust. :tup:

[oldschoolcalgary]

From what I could see today through the fence, it appears there may be lighting behind the panels. Could create an interesting effect with the words lit up at night.

there will be lighting so that the quotes are backlit at night...I heard they are going to run a test of the lighting of the wall on the east side something in the next week or so...

[Innersoul1]

Except for the many many months of brown in this city (ie: most of them)... I agree with you. ;)

Most of my years here have seen 2-3 months of green, tops. And maybe 3 weeks in the winter with any serious amount of snow sticking around.

I am brown all months of the year ;)

filler

[freeweed]

I am brown all months of the year ;)

filler

It's too bad you only walk around town during spring and fall.

[Doug]

Like the design, don't like the rust. As others have already pointed out, Calgary is already too brown. I'd also add that rusted metal is completely out of context in Calgary as it never really had an industrial past. This would lave looked so much better as brushed aluminium or stainless steel.

[freeweed]

Like the design, don't like the rust. As others have already pointed out, Calgary is already too brown. I'd also add that rusted metal is completely out of context in Calgary as it never really had an industrial past. This would lave looked so much better as brushed aluminium or stainless steel.

I think this is something that bugged me unconsciously, thanks for articulating it. I had a vague thought of "looks like it came from Pittsburgh" in my head but no idea where it originated.

Out of context. That's exactly where my thoughts are on this. I don't have an issue per se, but it just doesn't "fit". Then again, art is more fun when it's a bit jarring...

[outoftheice]

In general I like the look of the project, but think the rust is a poor choice for a war memorial. When I think of rust, I think of neglect and disrepair. Of something forgotten.

To me this is the exact reason why I think the rusted look is a good choice for the memorial... For most people, the major wars that this project is memorializing are either a distant memory or something they read about in school... The way we look at the most of our veterans, who have now reached an age where they are elderly and frail, matches the way we look at a run down building or a rusted out boat... we can recognize that at one time, this was something important, something of significance but it is something from before our time, something that no longer impacts our lives in a meaningful way... Gleaming marble or shiney metal may glorify our military past, but these rusted objects with words of such importance etched into them perfectly sums up how the majority of Calgarians identify with the wars of our past. Lest we forget....

[Ramsayfarian]

To me this is the exact reason why I think the rusted look is a good choice for the memorial... For most people, the major wars that this project is memorializing are either a distant memory or something they read about in school... The way we look at the most of our veterans, who have now reached an age where they are elderly and frail, matches the way we look at a run down building or a rusted out boat... we can recognize that at one time, this was something important, something of significance but it is something from before our time, something that no longer impacts our lives in a meaningful way... Gleaming marble or shiney metal may glorify our military past, but these rusted objects with words of such importance etched into them perfectly sums up how the majority of Calgarians identify with the wars of our past. Lest we forget....

Not sure if you've noticed but Canada has just produced a huge fresh crop of veterans that aren't old and frail.

I understand what you're getting at, but I still think rust is a poor choice of materials for a memorial..

BTW, there's another piece just off Memorial that is a combination of rust and shiny marble. It looks like something out of Chernobyl.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think this is something that bugged me unconsciously, thanks for articulating it. I had a vague thought of "looks like it came from Pittsburgh" in my head but no idea where it originated.

Out of context. That's exactly where my thoughts are on this. I don't have an issue per se, but it just doesn't "fit". Then again, art is more fun when it's a bit jarring...

the scale of the corten reminds me of Richard Sera's work...

stainless or alum is a nice thought, though it would have probably tripled the cost for the steel...

[polishavenger]

If the complaint is that calgary has no industrial past, then what is the context of stainless steel or aluminum? I dont think the rust is an omage to past industry, if anything it may be a symbol of rusted out tanks and other war material left behind. The rust color I think will look good against snow and ice in the winter, but we need some pics as the renderings are all Im going off of now.

[Bigtime]

I think this may be a case where the two sides will just have to agree to disagree.

[kw5150]

Marc Boutain won awards for it. Clearly it is a good plaza, rusty elements or not. Its not like the whole plaza is made of rusty iron either.......The choice of finishes all relate very well to each other. If you want to comment on something, comment on the fact that the designer wants to use grass-pavers along the new pathway which are never a good choice for Calgary.

All things aside, the plaza as a whole is an amazing addition to the riverfront and Kensington / Memorial.

[artvandelay]

I like it, but that's just me.

[oldschoolcalgary]

well, looking at the renderings on the site, it looks like 4 more major elements are to be added - the cantilever over the river, the enormous letters spelling Memorial, the benches/decking and whatever they are showing flanking the ten street bridge...

so a lot left to see and critique.

[Ramsayfarian]

Marc Boutain won awards for it. Clearly it is a good plaza, rusty elements or not. Its not like the whole plaza is made of rusty iron either.......The choice of finishes all relate very well to each other. If you want to comment on something, comment on the fact that the designer wants to use grass-pavers along the new pathway which are never a good choice for Calgary.

All things aside, the plaza as a whole is an amazing addition to the riverfront and Kensington / Memorial.


Can you elaborate on the awards? Is it an award from the Rusty Iron Producers of Southern Alberta aka RIPS? Wouldn't the project have to be completed to qualify for an award?

As I mentioned before I like the looks of it, I just find the rust an odd choice of materials for a memorial. It's would be fitting it if it was honouring the Peace Bridge or other poorly executed city projects but not so great for our war dead.

[freeweed]

It would be fitting it if it was honouring the Peace Bridge or other poorly executed city projects but not so great for our war dead.

:haha:

+1 like.

[kw5150]

Can you elaborate on the awards? Is it an award from the Rusty Iron Producers of Southern Alberta aka RIPS? Wouldn't the project have to be completed to qualify for an award?

As I mentioned before I like the looks of it, I just find the rust an odd choice of materials for a memorial. It's would be fitting it if it was honouring the Peace Bridge or other poorly executed city projects but not so great for our war dead.


Go to page one grumpy.

[Ramsayfarian]

Go to page one grumpy.

Grumpy? So I don't agree with you so you call me names? That's very mature of you. Needless to say your assessment of me is on par with the rest of your opinions on this board.

[O-tacular]

:previous::haha:

I'm waiting for the day you two actually meet and sparks fly. Interpret that as you will.

[O-tacular]

I'm looking forward to this thing's completion. From memorial Dr. it doesn't look very far along, as the landscaping's still all ripped up. But based on these photos it appears otherwise.

I like the rusty metal.

[Doug]

the scale of the corten reminds me of Richard Sera's work...

stainless or alum is a nice thought, though it would have probably tripled the cost for the steel...

It would have been expensive. Have you ever seen the pedestration overpass over John Laurie Blvd to Nose Hill Park by Brisebois Dr? It has a public art component of images etched into stainless steel. This type of material would have looked great had high durability.

[kw5150]

Grumpy? So I don't agree with you so you call me names? That's very mature of you. Needless to say your assessment of me is on par with the rest of your opinions on this board.

No, you just sound grumpy. Just like you think I sould retarded, bi-polar, etc, etc, etc.....or wait, its not just you that thinks that......its most of the people on this forum apparently. I promise, im not retarded, but I do have my grummpy and regular days which could easily be mistaken as bi-polar I guess.....

[Ramsayfarian]

:previous::haha:

I'm waiting for the day you two actually meet and sparks fly. Interpret that as you will.

I was going to say that I'm more of lover than a fighter, but I think that would be the wrong choice of words. I think we can agree to disagree, without resorting to violence.

[Ramsayfarian]

No, you just sound grumpy. Just like you think I sould retarded, bi-polar, etc, etc, etc.....or wait, its not just you that thinks that......its most of the people on this forum apparently. I promise, im not retarded, but I do have my grummpy and regular days which could easily be mistaken as bi-polar I guess.....

I'll try to use more emoticons then. :) I don't recall calling you retarded, at least not out loud. Mind you, the above quoted post isn't helping your cause. :) Nor do I recall saying you were bi-polar. I think I referred to you as manic. :) Feel free to call my sarcastic as I am that. :)

[Bigtime]

Will those that don't like the rust-brown start calling this "poopy plaza"?

[polishavenger]

The Marc Boutain website is hands down the stupidest website for an architectual firm i have ever seen. What a pain in the ass to navigate.

[freeweed]

Will those that don't like the rust-brown start calling this "poopy plaza"?

I already have. Although even without thinking about the rust. I'm just THAT juvenile.

[AUM]

The Marc Boutain website is hands down the stupidest website for an architectual firm i have ever seen. What a pain in the ass to navigate.

I think its great and the people there are a creative group who do great work. I like that there website isn't the standard convention like every other architectural website. I think that people who go to them with projects are not looking for the typical design office....there is a reason he is a Prix de Rome winner among many other awards.

[DizzyEdge]

Since it's brown anyways, they should have just made it from extracts of real poppies.

[Ramsayfarian]

Will those that don't like the rust-brown start calling this "poopy plaza"?

I won't call it that, but I sure think it every time I see the name. All most impossible not to. Do we already have Memorial Plaza?

[polishavenger]

I think its great and the people there are a creative group who do great work. I like that there website isn't the standard convention like every other architectural website. I think that people who go to them with projects are not looking for the typical design office....there is a reason he is a Prix de Rome winner among many other awards.

The website would be much better if the opening graphic actually showed you where to click on it to get anywhere, and labelled where you are going. I have no patience to try every square inch of a large graphic to find links, and then guess and test which one takes me where.

Under the projects section, the fact that you cant sort them by category makes it really annoying to find what you are looking for. Aesthetically it looks good, but navigation wise its terrible. Of coures it could be just my browser at work missing some essential plug in that would solve all these problems.

[Ramsayfarian]

Here's part of the plaza on Memorial Drive.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6018/5997504606_788c89d70b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coomber/5997504606/)
We Lived (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coomber/5997504606/) by D-2-C (http://www.flickr.com/people/coomber/), on Flickr

[DizzyEdge]

The website would be much better if the opening graphic actually showed you where to click on it to get anywhere, and labelled where you are going. I have no patience to try every square inch of a large graphic to find links, and then guess and test which one takes me where.

Under the projects section, the fact that you cant sort them by category makes it really annoying to find what you are looking for. Aesthetically it looks good, but navigation wise its terrible. Of coures it could be just my browser at work missing some essential plug in that would solve all these problems.

A common case of a website being designed more to be art itself, rather than useful.

[CorporateWhore]

I think its great and the people there are a creative group who do great work. I like that there website isn't the standard convention like every other architectural website. I think that people who go to them with projects are not looking for the typical design office....there is a reason he is a Prix de Rome winner among many other awards.

The point of a portfolio website is to showcase your work for press and future clients, not to annoy people with your pretentious attempts at cleverness.

Only an architect would have such a deliberately confusing website. I used to run into this kind of masturbatory tripe all the time when i had to work with them....they might be good at designing buildings, but in my experience they are terrible at any sort of graphic or information design. Everything always has to be super complicated and have some contrived thesis. I swear that part of their routine is to stare into a mirror every night and tell themselves how clever they are.

Having said that, I like poopy plaza.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Here's part of the plaza on Memorial Drive.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6018/5997504606_788c89d70b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coomber/5997504606/)
We Lived (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coomber/5997504606/) by D-2-C (http://www.flickr.com/people/coomber/), on Flickr

you've got some really nice photos on flickr... I don't always agree with your comments, but just wanted to say you have a very good eye...

love the tilt shift effects btw.

[kw5150]

The point of a portfolio website is to showcase your work for press and future clients, not to annoy people with your pretentious attempts at cleverness.

Only an architect would have such a deliberately confusing website. I used to run into this kind of masturbatory tripe all the time when i had to work with them....they might be good at designing buildings, but in my experience they are terrible at any sort of graphic or information design. Everything always has to be super complicated and have some contrived thesis. I swear that part of their routine is to stare into a mirror every night and tell themselves how clever they are.

Having said that, I like poopy plaza.

I disagree. Not everything has to be standardized to fit within some set of rules. So, the website is slightly hard to navigate......Big deal. The graphic design on the poppy plaza is stellar. He is obviously marketing to another crowd......and its working!

[Ramsayfarian]

you've got some really nice photos on flickr... I don't always agree with your comments, but just wanted to say you have a very good eye...

love the tilt shift effects btw.

Thanks for the very kind comments. I'm glad that you don't let my inane comments taint my photography.

The rodeo tilt-shift photos were all taken with my new point & shoot. It's a Canon S95 and it does the tilt-shift right in camera. It's my new favourite toy.

[Bassic Lab]

I won't call it that, but I sure think it every time I see the name. All most impossible not to. Do we already have Memorial Plaza?

Well, we have Central Memorial Park. It might get a little confusing, and/or boring, if we start having Memorial Park, Memorial Plaza, Memorial Square, Memorial Court, etcetera.

[polishavenger]

I disagree. Not everything has to be standardized to fit within some set of rules. So, the website is slightly hard to navigate......Big deal. The graphic design on the poppy plaza is stellar. He is obviously marketing to another crowd......and its working!

What crowd do you market too through painfully difficult to navigate websites? Theres no reason it cant be artistic and well laid out. Strange logic.

[CorporateWhore]

I disagree. Not everything has to be standardized to fit within some set of rules. So, the website is slightly hard to navigate......Big deal. The graphic design on the poppy plaza is stellar. He is obviously marketing to another crowd......and its working!

When it comes to actually getting things done, navigation is a big deal.

Nobody said it has to be standard, but at the basic level a good website has to function. I used the be part of the audience (editorial media) that architects would want to grab the attention of most. These types of sites would always get our wrath, and it would rarely lead to positive coverage....often times we'd pass them over. Part of my job these days still includes researching/culling creative talent to work with....and if I can't access the work with 10 seconds, but instead am bogged down with shitty flash and pretentious crap, I'm out of there. There's too much good work out there to slog through this time of stuff.

Oh and as for the graphic design for poopy plaza....I'm sure it was done by a graphic designer (either in-house or farmed out), and not the architect. If the architect did it, it would probably be a random collection of dots and dashes.

[freeweed]

What crowd do you market too through painfully difficult to navigate websites? Theres no reason it cant be artistic and well laid out. Strange logic.

People who think they're being "different" and "artistic" maybe "edgy" by being able to figure out pointlessly confusing navigation.

It's a form of elitism, and a rather hilarious one at that. Makes me think of the eastern European car Homer was test-driving once: "put it in H!". I bet the same crowd would LOVE that car.

[kw5150]

When it comes to actually getting things done, navigation is a big deal.

Nobody said it has to be standard, but at the basic level a good website has to function. I used the be part of the audience (editorial media) that architects would want to grab the attention of most. These types of sites would always get our wrath, and it would rarely lead to positive coverage....often times we'd pass them over. Part of my job these days still includes researching/culling creative talent to work with....and if I can't access the work with 10 seconds, but instead am bogged down with shitty flash and pretentious crap, I'm out of there. There's too much good work out there to slog through this time of stuff.

Oh and as for the graphic design for poopy plaza....I'm sure it was done by a graphic designer (either in-house or farmed out), and not the architect. If the architect did it, it would probably be a random collection of dots and dashes.

Many of the architects I know are amazing graphic designers as well.

Marc Boutin Arch. Collaborative did all of their graphics in house for the poppy plaza; I know that for a fact. Some architects start with other degree like fine arts before they enter the profession. Most (if not all) are artistic before they even consider it.

[CorporateWhore]

Many of the architects I know are amazing graphic designers as well.

And every single one I've worked with has been awful when you compare them to professional graphic design standards. The only ones who have been worse were photographers (although many of them were at least aware of it!).


Marc Boutin Arch. Collaborative did all of their graphics in house for the poppy plaza; I know that for a fact.

That does not mean that an architect himself did the actual graphic design. They might have a designer on staff for these types of things. More often than not, the guy who designs the building does not work on the signage, wayfinding, and graphic design elements.

Oh, and I'm artistic too and like to dabble in other fields....but it doesn't mean I could design as nice of a building as an architect, shoot as nice of a photo as a photographer, or design a car as nice as an industrial designer. At the end of the day when you compare dabble work like this to someone actually working in that profession, it almost never stacks up.

[kw5150]

And every single one I've worked with has been awful when you compare them to professional graphic design standards. The only ones who have been worse were photographers (although many of them were at least aware of it!).



That does not mean that an architect himself did the actual graphic design. They might have a designer on staff for these types of things. More often than not, the guy who designs the building does not work on the signage, wayfinding, and graphic design elements.

Oh, and I'm artistic too and like to dabble in other fields....but it doesn't mean I could design as nice of a building as an architect, shoot as nice of a photo as a photographer, or design a car as nice as an industrial designer. At the end of the day when you compare dabble work like this to someone actually working in that profession, it almost never stacks up.

Ya, unless the architect (landscape architect, interior designer) focused on graphic design more than other people. There are exceptions to the rule. And, like I said, some of them come from a fine arts degree....or from an art college........and then go into architecture.

I dont think people really realize just how broad a design degree really is; you can pick what to focus on, on top of what you are already learning. Graphic design is a HUGE part or architecture, interior, landscape......how else do you think that they communicate their ideas to the client? Some schools pay more attention to graphics than others but it is definately key. The students of the U of M are taught by an amazing graphic designer every semester for the full 4 years. That is 8 courses in graphic design. That does not include the other 3d courses, drawing classes, and the extensive studio work that all of this graphic design is applied to. They do more than dabble. Dabbling is microsoft paint and corel draw and I can guarantee that those programs were not used.

[CorporateWhore]

Ok, now you're just starting to make shit up. Graphic design is a "HUGE" component of landscape and interior design? Let's not get crazy now.

You're right in that presentations are and should be a big deal for architects, and graphic design training can only help. However, it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of current architects are just not very good at it, just like I'd be terrible at architecture if I took only a few courses.

You have to know what your strengths and weaknesses are. Architects seems to have this idea that they are the mother of all design, and therefore they can do it all. Some of them are decent, but the vast majority I've run into are just terrible....no concept of type, hierarchy or basic graphic principles. I used to get 10-15 submissions per day from architecture firms, and the vast majority were contrived and over-complicated.

If schools are teaching graphic design, then great....but it takes more than a couple of courses to get good at it. I spent 4 years getting a Graphic Design BDes, and 2 years getting a Graphic Design MFA....and to be honest, I still felt like I only really started getting the hang of it once I started working. My GF graduated from Parsons, in Interior Design, and she said she received one token course.

And again, having a fine arts degree does not mean you have inherent design skills...a lot of the skills don't transfer over as well as one might think. During my MA schooling, we had a few people stream in from fine arts.....every single one of them dropped out before the first semester was over. They just didn't have the skills to hack it when you compared them to people who had take a 4 year degree. They could draw or paint, but were lacking in a lot of critical-thinking areas.

Btw, Corel Draw? I didn't even know that was still around?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Thanks for the very kind comments. I'm glad that you don't let my inane comments taint my photography.

The rodeo tilt-shift photos were all taken with my new point & shoot. It's a Canon S95 and it does the tilt-shift right in camera. It's my new favourite toy.

usually I just roll my eyes at your comments! ;)

Actually, I love looking at some of the pics people have taken around town...makes the average buildings look good, and the good buildings great!

I love photography, just find the SLRs have so many features that I'd be wasting money because I wouldn't know how to use the damn thing!

[oldschoolcalgary]

You're right in that presentations are and should be a big deal for architects, and graphic design training can only help. However, it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of current architects are just not very good at it, just like I'd be terrible at architecture if I took only a few courses.


I think it runs the continuum - those firms that treat design as being important don't overlook the minutiae of the project, including graphics.

While that doesn't necessarily mean that Marc or Jeremy are doing the graphics themselves, chances are an intern architect is (at least for those firms...and probably Housebrand, and Orda as well).

There are crappy graphics, but a lot of times those are for crappy projects. The boards for the edmonton park pavillions, a national, anonymous competition last spring, looked fantastic...I'd bet that the architects are pretty heavily involved in something like that...

check out BIG, a danish firm, that are the current darlings of the architectural world - they've been winning international competitions all over the world of late. Don't know if it is a 'true' graphic designer involved, but their presentations are sweet.

[Ramsayfarian]

usually I just roll my eyes at your comments! ;)

Actually, I love looking at some of the pics people have taken around town...makes the average buildings look good, and the good buildings great!

I love photography, just find the SLRs have so many features that I'd be wasting money because I wouldn't know how to use the damn thing!


Eye rolling is a probably a pretty common reaction to my comments. :tup:

If you don't want the complexity of a SLR but yet want full control, take a look at that Canon S95. Shooting manual is very easy and it takes pretty good pics for a point and shoot. I've almost abandoned my SLR since I bought the S95.

If you want to learn more about shooting with DSLR. Check out camerasim.com (www.camerasim.com) It allows you to screw around with a virtual DSLR. Very cool tool for a newbie.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Eye rolling is a probably a pretty common reaction to my comments. :tup:

If you don't want the complexity of a SLR but yet want full control, take a look at that Canon S95. Shooting manual is very easy and it takes pretty good pics for a point and shoot. I've almost abandoned my SLR since I bought the S95.

If you want to learn more about shooting with DSLR. Check out camerasim.com (www.camerasim.com) It allows you to screw around with a virtual DSLR. Very cool tool for a newbie.

thanks for the tips! I've looked at my sister's camera (it a Nikon D-SLR) and its pretty intimidating...she doesn't know all the gizmos yet.

the camerasim site sounds cool though - I'll definitely check it out...thanks again :tup:

[kw5150]

Ok, now you're just starting to make shit up. Graphic design is a "HUGE" component of landscape and interior design? Let's not get crazy now.

You're right in that presentations are and should be a big deal for architects, and graphic design training can only help. However, it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of current architects are just not very good at it, just like I'd be terrible at architecture if I took only a few courses.

You have to know what your strengths and weaknesses are. Architects seems to have this idea that they are the mother of all design, and therefore they can do it all. Some of them are decent, but the vast majority I've run into are just terrible....no concept of type, hierarchy or basic graphic principles. I used to get 10-15 submissions per day from architecture firms, and the vast majority were contrived and over-complicated.

If schools are teaching graphic design, then great....but it takes more than a couple of courses to get good at it. I spent 4 years getting a Graphic Design BDes, and 2 years getting a Graphic Design MFA....and to be honest, I still felt like I only really started getting the hang of it once I started working. My GF graduated from Parsons, in Interior Design, and she said she received one token course.

And again, having a fine arts degree does not mean you have inherent design skills...a lot of the skills don't transfer over as well as one might think. During my MA schooling, we had a few people stream in from fine arts.....every single one of them dropped out before the first semester was over. They just didn't have the skills to hack it when you compared them to people who had take a 4 year degree. They could draw or paint, but were lacking in a lot of critical-thinking areas.

Btw, Corel Draw? I didn't even know that was still around?

FYI: At the University of Manitoba Faculty of Environmental Design they teach a lot of graphic design. Im betting even you would be impressed by some of their work.

[oldschoolcalgary]

so, i noticed they have an M up on the site...and a bunch of other letters there too (though none are installed)

http://img19.imagevenue.com/loc87/th_975902788_IMG_0737_122_87lo.JPG (http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=975902788_IMG_0737_122_87lo.JPG)

[Bigtime]

I'm really looking forward to this all being done.

[ST1]

The Marc Boutain website is hands down the stupidest website for an architectual firm i have ever seen. What a pain in the ass to navigate.

100% agreed. It's far slower and clunkier than needs be.

[polishavenger]

I'm really looking forward to this all being done.

I've been looking foward to it for what feels like years now. Im very excited to see the amount of investment the city is putting into upgrading our river pathways. Once this is done I would very much like to see the path updgraded on the north bank just west of crowchild trail, and hopefully in time the west village revitalizes the stretch from 10th street to Crowchild on the south bank.

[kw5150]

Does anyone know what they are putting on the new boards in the palza to make them slip resistant? After a frost, those boards could be trecherous as some of the slopes exceed even 5%!

For the record, I think the plaza is great and cant wait to see it open!

[oldschoolcalgary]

Does anyone know what they are putting on the new boards in the palza to make them slip resistant? After a frost, those boards could be trecherous as some of the slopes exceed even 5%!

For the record, I think the plaza is great and cant wait to see it open!

it looks like the boards have grooves on the surface... no sure it it will be enough, so hopefully, the city will provide a decent amount of regular snow clearance...

caught this one morning from the bridge...a bit shaky as i was walking...

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2379/img0977m.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/522/img0977m.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Calgarian]

Poppy Plaza looks great!

[stophs]

Any news on what's happening with this? It seems like there hasn't been much work done in some time. It'll be a great edition to the area when it's done.

[devonb]

Druh told me that they had to get a different crew for Poppy Plaza due to problems with the last and should ramp up again soon.

She also said the city is looking at options for Buds Office furniture on Edmonton Trail. Market collective will have to move out of Kensington with the new development coming in. She said the city is looking at using Buds for the new location but will need some serious renovation and perhaps even get some retail frontage.

The city is also looking at putting off peak parking on Edmonton Trail again. The temporary parking last year was very positive and many businesses are pushing to make it permanent.

[Blue_Cypress]

It is utterly ridiculous that this project is stuck at a standstill.

[poppa777]

It is utterly ridiculous that this project is stuck at a standstill.

Agreed...u would think that a project with this much importance, there would be more action on it!!! :hell:

[Bigtime]

Update: I have seen crews back on this site starting to resume work on it. Doubt we see it done before summers end though.

[AB Born]

The citys website says "anticipated to open late 2012".

[Govertical]

I went to poppy plaza Saturday. And I was quite impressed. Is the old brick building supposed to become a restaurant? I have to say it gives the Louise bridge a warmer feel too

[Spring2008]

I went to poppy plaza Saturday. And I was quite impressed. Is the old brick building supposed to become a restaurant? I have to say it gives the Louise bridge a warmer feel too

Yup.

They're planting a bunch of trees in the actual plaza area itself today, and have recently planted a bunch around the south side of the future restaurant and along the trail.

[speedog]

So went down to Poppy Plaza with the kids last Saturday evening (May 12) and yupp, this is a very nice addition to Calgary's public places. Am concerned though that they are already having to modify this site to address certain issues as I believe this will subtract from the original look. Trying to dissuade boarders/bikers is a touchy subject it would appear but none of my three older kids 19-21, who are boarders, feel that they need to practice their sport/activity at this location - they all were in awe of how unique and special this place already is.

That said, what to do about boarders and such - they do need proper places in the city IMHO and Shaw just isn't enough. Yeah, there's going to be more skate parks coming on stream but that still won't address the issue of boarders looking for those wild spots there were never built with the intent of providing a spot for boarders to do tricks and such. Myself, I do have some issues with people damaging private or public spaces - no different then random graffiti but if not enough allowed places are created/provided, then something new like Poppy Plaza or the finger trap bridge will attract them just because of these structures were built.

Really, there is no easy solution but somehow the city needs to find some answers that will keep all happy.