Emerald Necklace (13th Avenue Greenway)

[mr.steevo]

Calgary Herald - Jan 8, 2010

The city will begin laying a "green ribbon" down the Beltline this year, as it launches a project to turn a quiet residential street into a heritage promenade and cycling route.

The 13th Avenue Greenway, long touted as a key component in the makeovers for the Beltline, Sunalta and Victoria Park, will ultimately become a tree-lined link between the Elbow River and pathways that reach the Bow River....

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Calgary+create+emerald+necklace+Beltline/2419307/story.html

Thoughts? I support this idea.

s.

[frinkprof]

In the winter, I intend on calling it the pearl necklace.

[DizzyEdge]

In the winter, I intend on calling it the pearl necklace.

/thread

[O-tacular]

In the winter, I intend on calling it the pearl necklace.

Hahahahaha!:haha: :cheers:

[fusili]

Great idea, wrong street.

[Wooster]

Great idea, wrong street.

It is the right street for this kind of design treatment, just the wrong street to prioritize in terms of public realm improvements. Beltline needs a CRL and a comprehensive strategy for public realm capital investments, badly.

[frinkprof]

Great idea, wrong street.What do you think would be a more appropriate street and why, fusili?

I don't think it's the best street for this, necessarily, but certainly will be a welcome change to 13th Ave.

[lubicon]

Nice idea, but $5 million for a 5 block stretch? Seems a little steep but what do I know.

[fusili]

What do you think would be a more appropriate street and why, fusili?

I don't think it's the best street for this, necessarily, but certainly will be a welcome change to 13th Ave.

10th Avenue. Not necessarily for this type of design, but for improvement. 13th Avenue works pretty well as is. It can be improved for sure, but there are other areas that are desperate for attention. Talking last night to someone who cycles down 13th regularly (as I did previously), his words were "Don't fuck with 13th Avenue." Meanwhile several portions on the North side of 10th Avenue don't even have sidewalks, mostly adjacent to surface parking lots. If someone in a wheel chair, or a parent with a stroller were to park there, they have to go into the F$%king street to walk. That is atrocious. So in terms of priorities, places without sidewalks at all should get them, then we can improve the sidewalks we already have.

[mersar]

Nice idea, but $5 million for a 5 block stretch? Seems a little steep but what do I know.

To make it worse, its only a 4 block stretch (there is no 3rd street in the Beltline, 2nd-4th is only a touch longer then a normal block)

10th Avenue. Not necessarily for this type of design, but for improvement.

Agreed. Plus 10th is already going to be getting work done to it west of 14th as part of the WLRT and the new ARP, it would make sense to continue the improvements along through the beltline.

[DizzyEdge]

I agree with some of the sentiments here, yes the greenway sounds great, but I'd like to see all streets be improved to have adequate sideways etc before going all fancy-pants on one of them.

[frinkprof]

10th Avenue. Not necessarily for this type of design, but for improvement. 13th Avenue works pretty well as is. It can be improved for sure, but there are other areas that are desperate for attention. Talking last night to someone who cycles down 13th regularly (as I did previously), his words were "Don't fuck with 13th Avenue." Meanwhile several portions on the North side of 10th Avenue don't even have sidewalks, mostly adjacent to surface parking lots. If someone in a wheel chair, or a parent with a stroller were to park there, they have to go into the F$%king street to walk. That is atrocious. So in terms of priorities, places without sidewalks at all should get them, then we can improve the sidewalks we already have.Fair enough. I agree the 10th Avenue is an eyesore aesthetically, and a very unfriendly street in a practical sense. However, I like the idea of this project in its own right.

[Wooster]

I agree with some of the sentiments here, yes the greenway sounds great, but I'd like to see all streets be improved to have adequate sideways etc before going all fancy-pants on one of them.

I sort of disagree with just bringing things up to simply an "adequate" standard. I think if we're going to invest in a streetscape improvement, it should be done right and in a comprehensive manner. Yes 10th needs improvement, but I don't think just fixing the sidewalks that are missing in a patchwork manner is the solution. I would argue that 10th, 11th and 12th avenues really need to be redone altogether. Effort should be concentrated on that kind of really big move.

[DizzyEdge]

I sort of disagree with just bringing things up to simply an "adequate" standard. I think if we're going to invest in a streetscape improvement, it should be done right and in a comprehensive manner. Yes 10th needs improvement, but I don't think just fixing the sidewalks that are missing in a patchwork manner is the solution. I would argue that 10th, 11th and 12th avenues really need to be redone altogether. Effort should be concentrated on that kind of really big move.

Well perhaps instead of using the term adequate I should have said 'up to standards'. What I'd like to see is a survey of all the beltline streets and then have the improvement of the beltline as a project in of itself. Not sure if this has been done already.

[Wooster]

Well perhaps instead of using the term adequate I should have said 'up to standards'. What I'd like to see is a survey of all the beltline streets and then have the improvement of the beltline as a project in of itself. Not sure if this has been done already.

I think Fusili has done a pretty comprehensive audit of beltline streets.

[frinkprof]

What I'd like to see is a survey of all the beltline streets and then have the improvement of the beltline as a project in of itself.Could you clarify what you mean by this?

[Calgarian]

10th is full of sites that will undergo a complete transformation in the coming years, and as part of that I think the city should implement some guidelines as to what kind of development takes place on the street level. I think doing anything right now will be a little pre-mature.

I like the idea of the 13th ave greenway, but want to see more renderings before deciding if it's the right project at the right time.

[Wooster]

10th is full of sites that will undergo a complete transformation in the coming years, and as part of that I think the city should implement some guidelines as to what kind of development takes place on the street level. I think doing anything right now will be a little pre-mature.

There are.

[agent_imperial]

Meanwhile several portions on the North side of 10th Avenue don't even have sidewalks...

While I certainly welcome the improvements to 13th, I completely agree that 10th needs some attention badly!

The sections without sidewalks that are littered with mud filled puddles between 7th and 5th and between 2nd and 1st streets are a colossal embarrassment to have in the core of our city!

When I have friends visiting Calgary I specifically avoid walking them down 10th in those areas. What kind of modern city has dirt ruts instead of sidewalks in their inner city?

Anyways… Back to the issue at hand… I think in the long run 13th will be a great street for this type of streetscape improvement… there are some great parks and buildings along this street which would benefit from a good connection, Hotel Arts, Central Memorial, Lougheed House, New CBE Building, Connaught school, etc… there is hardly a stretch longer than a block without something interesting along it.

[Calgarian]

There are.

I just mean that's all we should do for now, have an ARP type document to guide development along 10th, then come back and upgrade parts of it once most of the empty lots have been built out.

[Wooster]

I just mean that's all we should do for now, have an ARP type document to guide development along 10th, then come back and upgrade parts of it once most of the empty lots have been built out.

Yeah, that's part of the challenge. If the majority of an area will be completely redeveloped with new sidewalks and public realm as part of redevelopment anyway, is it worth going in to rebuild or upgrade sidewalks in advance? I agree in this case it might be worth fixing the really awful sidewalks or put sidewalks in if missing altogether in advance of development to an acceptable standard. Places like around 12th ave and Macleod trail are being totally rebuilt - therefore it's not worth putting public money into new streetscapes - they'll be all new and very nice within 10 years as a result of redevelopment. 10th ave, in section could be considered in the same light. On streets like 11th and 12th aves, or 8th street that are largely built up I think the case could be made that a comprehensive overhaul of the streetscape makes more sense. If you rely on redevelopment, it would be an inconsisent patchwork.

[Calgarian]

That's what I mean, I don't think there is much point in spending money on the N side of 10th if it could all get torn up within a year. I doubt anything is going to happen there for a few years, but for all we know there could be work underway by the end of the year.

[Cowtown_Tim]

10th ave needs this the most, but until there is some sort of development there, or a general plan of what to develop there, I say 13th ave is the next best thing. The east half of 11th ave could also use upgrading.

[DavidKuitunen]

I think 13th Ave is perfect for this kind of project. The Ave is already calm and green. With this kind of development it'll encourage people to get on a bicycle and be active. It'll come together nicely with 1st Street and look good with the new central memorial park renos. I fully support these kind of projects. Looking forward to using it.

[DavidKuitunen]

Nice idea, but $5 million for a 5 block stretch? Seems a little steep but what do I know.

Well if you consider all the people who live in the beltline and all the people who are visiting Calgary. It's not a bad way to spend $5 million. Public Realm in Calgary needs to be improved.

[kw5150]

10th does need improvement (as mentioned above) but 13th is perfect for this and there is a historical component to it.

It was apparently like a main street back in the early 1900's and it contains many (over 10) historic sites.

I would wait on 10th for now. I wouldn't want heavy machinery busting up all the sidewalk in the future. Maybe if people talk about it enough, it will happen.

I would also like to see a widening of the 17th avenue sidewalks in some areas where the sidewalks get really tight.

[Ferreth]

For 10th, fix the dirt "sidewalks" adjacent to undeveloped lots. I'd settle for temporary pavement until such time as development occurs along the adjacent property. That goes for any other road in the belt line too. Surely, this is going to cost less than $5 mil? Then, and only then, should something like 13th be considered.

[mr.steevo]

For 10th, fix the dirt "sidewalks" adjacent to undeveloped lots. I'd settle for temporary pavement until such time as development occurs along the adjacent property. That goes for any other road in the belt line too. Surely, this is going to cost less than $5 mil? Then, and only then, should something like 13th be considered.

Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.

[Wooster]

Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.

Well, it would improve in that you would actually be able to safely and comfortably walk on sidewalks where they are currently missing.

[Aegis]

This project is pretty cool - but has it been funded?

[frinkprof]

This project is pretty cool - but has it been funded?Yes, I believe it is funded through development levies. Work begins this spring.

[Ferreth]

Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.

I'm arguing for a minimum standard - every street or avenue in the core has enough pedestrians that a basic sidewalk is justified on both sides of the road - including 10th Ave.

[fusili]

Why is 10 Ave now so important? It has been like this for decades and is not going to improve if a sidewalk is laid.

s.

Because (as I mentioned before) if someone in a wheel chair parks at one of the ImPark lots on 10th Avenue, they have to go into the street to get anywhere. That is a serious, serious safety issue. People avoid 10th avenue like the plague because it is dangerous, not because it isn't on their walking path. Improved streetscapes can also attract development.

[kw5150]

Because (as I mentioned before) if someone in a wheel chair parks at one of the ImPark lots on 10th Avenue, they have to go into the street to get anywhere. That is a serious, serious safety issue. People avoid 10th avenue like the plague because it is dangerous, not because it isn't on their walking path. Improved streetscapes can also attract development.

Very true. The first time I walked along 10th ave near the west end (near husky towers) was probably the last. My office gear didn't fare so well throught the mud, gravel and slush.

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

I should have been more specific in my question. I was responding to this point.

Then, and only then, should something like 13th be considered.

Expecting paved sidewalks downtown isn't unreasonable, but isn't directly related to the beautification of another area. If 10 Ave was a priority for the City and the citizens it would have be paved decades ago. Do I think 10 Ave needs pave sidewalks? Sure, however, I am in the minority (as are you).

But, does this mean all sidewalk projects must halt until 10 Ave is completed?

s.

[kw5150]

10th ave does have some of the best views of the skyline. I say bring on 13th in the meantime.

[Aegis]

Actually.. most of the blocks affected by this development have new sideways already.. are they going to be torn up and replaced??

[Radley77]

One of the major hurdles that I think 10th Ave faces from redevelopment is that the business of parking is actually probably fairly profitable. These lots may be take in $0.5 million annually in profit, so my guess is the land value alone is somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10 millionish along central 10th Avenue. Even with a 200 unit residential building, land costs would be $50,000 per unit.

I think 10th Avenue will be one of the harder areas to redevelop, as even though it is low density, the profitability of parking, plus capital apprecation is probably fairly good.

[Ferreth]

Hi,

I should have been more specific in my question. I was responding to this point.



Expecting paved sidewalks downtown isn't unreasonable, but isn't directly related to the beautification of another area. If 10 Ave was a priority for the City and the citizens it would have be paved decades ago. Do I think 10 Ave needs pave sidewalks? Sure, however, I am in the minority (as are you).

But, does this mean all sidewalk projects must halt until 10 Ave is completed?

s.

This is a fair question. So, to be clear, I'm of the opinion that there should at least be sidewalks of some sort everywhere before a major upgrade of pedestrian infrastructure is considered.

As Fusili pointed out, there are safety issues with people and wheelchairs being forced out into the street to get by muddy tracks. There are people in office cloths walking about getting dirty on mud paths as kw5150 pointed out. I'll add to this that a nice 13th Ave isn't going to be remembered by tourists or me if we got muddy elsewhere in order to get there in the first place. Yes, the two projects are not related, but I'm arguing that the money that needs to be spent to fix 10th and whatever other remaining deficiencies is small. It might mean that one block of upgraded 13th gets delayed so that everywhere else you can at least count on a basic hard surface path. I'm practical to the core - I want to see functionality provided for first, then I will consider aesthetic upgrades.

[poopysheep]

I''m excited about this project, but I hope it doesn't take decades to complete. I live on 13th Ave. between the old Carl Safran/Rundle School and Connaught school ( basically between 9th and 10th streets) and I think something like this will be fantastic... we get hordes of pedestrian traffic as it is...

i do agree that 10ave is basically horrid and it needs attention badly... however I don't think that should have any bearing on the 13ave project...

[DavidKuitunen]

does anyone know the timeline for phase 1 of this project?

[mersar]

Not yet. The city has said it will commence this year, but they don't mention anything more then that on the project web site (http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_0_780_230_0_43/http%3B/content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Transportation/Transportation+Planning/Transportation+Solutions/13+Avenue+Heritage+Greenway.htm).

[Calgarian]

CAn't wait to see this go ahead, 13th isn't in dire need of improvement or anything, but it definitely won't hurt. I wonder what they plan on doing with the newly built streets of Union Square and Colours.

[kw5150]

CAn't wait to see this go ahead, 13th isn't in dire need of improvement or anything, but it definitely won't hurt. I wonder what they plan on doing with the newly built streets of Union Square and Colours.

I believe they plan on saving all new concrete and tying into it. I see no reason to remove any of it....

[mersar]

Noticed there are surveying marks all over the ground along the entire stretch from at least 1st Street to 4th Street (tons around 2nd to 4th, but some of those are likely due to the work in Central Memorial Park which is very slowly getting closer to completion)

[Calgarian]

Noticed there are surveying marks all over the ground along the entire stretch from at least 1st Street to 4th Street (tons around 2nd to 4th, but some of those are likely due to the work in Central Memorial Park which is very slowly getting closer to completion)

I'm really interested to see what this ends up like, especially around Haultain park / Union Square and Colours.

[Calgarian]

Anything happening on this or is it the usual "pie in the sky" Calgary project?

[Wooster]

Funding for the first phase from Macleod to 4th Street was approved as far as I know. So it should be going ahead soon I would think. Probably going through detailed design now.

[Calgarian]

Funding for the first phase from Macleod to 4th Street was approved as far as I know. So it should be going ahead soon I would think. Probably going through detailed design now.

Just wondering, since I walk along 13th Ave from 2nd St W to Centre Street every day and I haven't seen anything. Hopefully they go faster than the 26th avenue promenade which doesn't seem to be moving along at all.

[Deepstar]

I hope it doesn't drag on like the Elbow river promenade.

[mersar]

Just wondering, since I walk along 13th Ave from 2nd St W to Centre Street every day and I haven't seen anything. Hopefully they go faster than the 26th avenue promenade which doesn't seem to be moving along at all.

So far nothing on the ground has begun. I live along there and haven't heard anything either about schedule, though from talking with others its quite likely nothing will start until next year.

[nick.flood]

delete

[DizzyEdge]

Bump to keep this thread active as construction on the greenway has finally gotten underway.

Where has it started?

[kw5150]

Where has it started?


The east end of 13th ave where it meets mcleod trail southbound.

[nick.flood]

delete

[Calgarian]

Glad this is going ahead, hopefully it gets well used by cyclists.

[DizzyEdge]

Excellent, that tips the scales as far as me heading out to Chien Chaud right now, now I have something to check out on the way ;)

[artvandelay]

I hope it doesn't drag on like the Elbow river promenade.

Looks like you were right, unfortunately...

Anyone know why this project is taking so long? I walked by this today and it looks like they nearly have one block done.

[kw5150]

Looks like you were right, unfortunately...

Anyone know why this project is taking so long? I walked by this today and it looks like they nearly have one block done.

There are heaps (and heaps) of utilities along 13th ave. The details for the greenway had to be coordinated with the plans and special engineered tree boxes with holes going from one to the next had to be designed to protect the utilities, and at the same time let the trees grow more freely. The project is suppose to eventually go all the way to 14th st SW when complete over the next X amount of years. The project will also include interpretive panels outlining the historical context in which the greenway is situated. Cant wait to see this all done. Part of the greenway will really urbanize the interface with Central Memorial Park as well.

[mrcccondor]

There are heaps (and heaps) of utilities along 13th ave. The details for the greenway had to be coordinated with the plans and special engineered tree boxes with holes going from one to the next had to be designed to protect the utilities, and at the same time let the trees grow more freely. The project is suppose to eventually go all the way to 14th st SW when complete over the next X amount of years. The project will also include interpretive panels outlining the historical context in which the greenway is situated. Cant wait to see this all done. Part of the greenway will really urbanize the interface with Central Memorial Park as well.

Also heard they are having complications with how to coordinate construction with maintaining access to the numerous parkaid entrances along 13th. Hotel Arts in particular has cars entering and leaving all the time.

[kw5150]

Also heard they are having complications with how to coordinate construction with maintaining access to the numerous parkaid entrances along 13th. Hotel Arts in particular has cars entering and leaving all the time.

I guess with any utility construction that could be an issue......otherwise they could just sequence it properly. People would just likely be driving on gravel for a couple days then they could frame and pour on one day.

[You Need A Thneed]

I guess with any utility construction that could be an issue......otherwise they could just sequence it properly. People would just likely be driving on gravel for a couple days then they could frame and pour on one day.

concrete can't be driven on by cars the next day.

[kw5150]

concrete can't be driven on by cars the next day.

Right.......well, they could bridge it maybe? Well, this type of coordination has been done before so it shouldn't be much of a worry. It may involve finding alternate parking for people for a week.

[Elbownian]

The 6-9 months per block pace certainly is discouraging, and I honestly haven't been all that impressed with the completed segments.

I know the development is primarily aimed at beautification, but is there any plan in place to optimize the traffic controls along 13th for pedestrians and cyclists? I've walked the full length from MacLeod to 14th St, and it's a terrible corridor in its present state. The only intersection where 13th Ave has right-of-way is 6th St W (a T-intersection). There's four intersections with full traffic lights (MacLeod N/S, 4th W, 5th W) and three with activated pedestrian lights on the north side only (makes the south side a bit useless). Otherwise, you're faced with free-flowing N-S traffic at every crossing - a bit daunting with the number of drivers here that don't seem to recognize intersections without marked crosswalks as a legitimate pedestrian crossing.

[kw5150]

13 ave Greenway looking good. A great change to the neighborhood......wow. Part of this project is burying those tacky old above ground lines. Good Stuff

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2891/dsc0089tl.jpg
By kw5150 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/kw5150) at 2012-06-27

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/7612/dsc0090bh.jpg
By kw5150 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/kw5150) at 2012-06-27

[TallBob]

Some growth of those trees and 5-10 years with a few developements (hopefully high-rises) that'll be one nice street scene. Those trees are what maples? Anyone? Ilike that kind of stuff.

[Jimby]

Some growth of those trees and 5-10 years with a few developements (hopefully high-rises) that'll be one nice street scene. Those trees are what maples? Anyone? Ilike that kind of stuff.

no true maples here. I wonder if the trees are green ash?

[Wooster]

Looking good. We need this level of streetscape treatment all over downtown.

[mrcccondor]

The 6-9 months per block pace certainly is discouraging, and I honestly haven't been all that impressed with the completed segments.

I know the development is primarily aimed at beautification, but is there any plan in place to optimize the traffic controls along 13th for pedestrians and cyclists? I've walked the full length from MacLeod to 14th St, and it's a terrible corridor in its present state. The only intersection where 13th Ave has right-of-way is 6th St W (a T-intersection). There's four intersections with full traffic lights (MacLeod N/S, 4th W, 5th W) and three with activated pedestrian lights on the north side only (makes the south side a bit useless). Otherwise, you're faced with free-flowing N-S traffic at every crossing - a bit daunting with the number of drivers here that don't seem to recognize intersections without marked crosswalks as a legitimate pedestrian crossing.

I walk this stretch almost daily and I've never really had these issues. All un-controlled intersections have pretty low volumes on the N/S roads. The lights actually pretty reasonable wait times for traveling down 13th. 13th doesn't have the right of way, but I wouldn't call it a terrible route.

But your right that setting the priority for 13th would be nice, especially if they consider it a major cycling route. Traffic calming on the N/S roads would go a long way and if done with planters would add a nice touch to the project.

[kw5150]

no true maples here. I wonder if the trees are green ash?

Elm!

[Calgarian]

There are some Maple trees in Calgary, they are few and far between though. So yeah I would guess Elm or Poplar trees.

That section looks great, taken just to the south of the Esso carwash I assume?

[TallBob]

Wooster: I agree! (You're probably stunned that comment comming from me) Somehow in new developements some of the parcel to be developed should have some green space instead of these sterile looking concrete plazas.

[devonb]

My street in Crescent Heights is pretty much all maples, but there are hundreds of different maples. I'm constantly pulling mini maples out all the time. We have a few Manitoba maples (they're the ones that have the helicopter seeds).

[DoubleK]

What an amazing achievement that will look better and better over time.

Excellent use of tax dollars.

[Sands]

Looking forward to this summer's construction time.

[Chadillaccc]

Didn't someone post last week that construction on the next phase has resumed?

[Spring2008]

Looks like they've already completed the 2nd to 4th street sw portion. They're also working on the Macleod portion, hope they extend west to at least 5th street right away and not wait until fall.

[MasterG]

Looks like they've already completed the 2nd to 4th street sw portion. They're also working on the Macleod portion, hope they extend west to at least 5th street right away and not wait until fall.

Is there any actual plans to continue toward the West Beltline? I know that was the dream years ago when they started, but the lack of momentum and plans beyond 4th Street suggests to me they have either given up or put the rest on the backburner.

The part that is finished is super nice, I wish they just did a bit faster of a job that 1 or 2 blocks per year (I know the flood messed up last years schedule a bit). That would put the entire strip into Sunalta at a completion date of 2021....

[Wooster]

Is there any actual plans to continue toward the West Beltline? I know that was the dream years ago when they started, but the lack of momentum and plans beyond 4th Street suggests to me they have either given up or put the rest on the backburner.

The part that is finished is super nice, I wish they just did a bit faster of a job that 1 or 2 blocks per year (I know the flood messed up last years schedule a bit). That would put the entire strip into Sunalta at a completion date of 2021....

West of 4th (or 5th) 13th is already perhaps the nicest tree line avenue in Beltline. No need for much physical intervention - perhaps some interpretive stuff related to heritage and open space - but in my view, don't fix what's not broken. Crappier corridors like 8th Street, 10th Ave, 14th St etc, need much more attention.

[Surrealplaces]

I walked a few of the blocks on Friday afternoon and was impressed with it. It's a nice comfortable walking area that's sunny and open for most of it. I was also impressed by how many people were using it....even east of 1st Street SW quite a few people using it.

What was totally impressive though was Central Memorial Park! Full of people and a hive of activity.....it felt like I was in Bryant Park. :cool:

[Spring2008]

West of 4th (or 5th) 13th is already perhaps the nicest tree line avenue in Beltline. No need for much physical intervention - perhaps some interpretive stuff related to heritage and open space - but in my view, don't fix what's not broken. Crappier corridors like 8th Street, 10th Ave, 14th St etc, need much more attention.

Agree. Hope the 8th street corridor starts this summer. Decent amount of new shops/towers, but the current public realm along the strip is mostly crap!

[DizzyEdge]

West of 4th (or 5th) 13th is already perhaps the nicest tree line avenue in Beltline. No need for much physical intervention - perhaps some interpretive stuff related to heritage and open space - but in my view, don't fix what's not broken. Crappier corridors like 8th Street, 10th Ave, 14th St etc, need much more attention.

Yeah the rest of the ave is treed right to 17th street. Could probably just use a few spot plantings to fill in gaps. Good call on the heritage intepretation too, would give another reason to continue down the corridor. I count at least 17 historic sites (counting some groups of buildings as one site) if you go all the way to 17th st, maybe more if you had signage point to sites one block north or south of the ave.

[Calgarian]

I think they should extend it to 5th (but the way they did between 2nd and 4th where there is still parking) and call it done. I agree with Wooster, the stretch west of 5th has great trees and is already super green already, no need to rip that up. They could make the sidewalk a bit wider, but that shouldn't require much work and they could probably do most of it in a single year.

I'm still really choked they removed the cycling component though, that was what really made this project worthwhile.

[MasterG]

West of 4th (or 5th) 13th is already perhaps the nicest tree line avenue in Beltline. No need for much physical intervention - perhaps some interpretive stuff related to heritage and open space - but in my view, don't fix what's not broken. Crappier corridors like 8th Street, 10th Ave, 14th St etc, need much more attention.

Absolutely agree. They just seemed to quietly shelve it. I would be happy with an upgrade to 5th or 6th street and stop there. 5th to have some connectivity to the new cycletrack slated there (in feeling more than actual route, as the greenway never quite aimed to be the cycling/pathway infrastructure it was originally proposed for. 6th to connect to the Park with the Loughheed house.

8th Street is supposed to be going soon right? This year or next?

[McMurph]

West of 4th (or 5th) 13th is already perhaps the nicest tree line avenue in Beltline. No need for much physical intervention - perhaps some interpretive stuff related to heritage and open space - but in my view, don't fix what's not broken. Crappier corridors like 8th Street, 10th Ave, 14th St etc, need much more attention.

Definitely agree. There are two blocks of 13th in Sunalta that is amongst the nicest inner city streetscapes in Calgary -- the kind of street that some other prairie cities seem to have miles of.

The only thing it's missing on 13th west of 5th is a bit of the pedestrian infrastructure (good sidewalks, signage and crosswalks) that would draw more people onto it. But absolutely 8th ought to be the priority. All of 8th. Now.

[DizzyEdge]

Definitely agree. There are two blocks of 13th in Sunalta that is amongst the nicest inner city streetscapes in Calgary -- the kind of street that some other prairie cities seem to have miles of.

The only thing it's missing on 13th west of 5th is a bit of the pedestrian infrastructure (good sidewalks, signage and crosswalks) that would draw more people onto it. But absolutely 8th ought to be the priority. All of 8th. Now.

I actually used to live on one of those blocks and it prompted me to find a similar street in Mount Pleasant when I was ready to buy.

[Surrealplaces]

I got a chance to walk up and down the greenway the other day, and was quite impressed. Once New Generation Tower, Maple Projects, and Live on Park are completed the corridor should settle out nicely. I was surprised by how many people were using it.....that area used to be a total dead zone.

[CorporateWhore]

This name still makes me giggle.

[Spring2008]

I got a chance to walk up and down the greenway the other day, and was quite impressed. Once New Generation Tower, Maple Projects, and Live on Park are completed the corridor should settle out nicely. I was surprised by how many people were using it.....that area used to be a total dead zone.

Wouldn't it be something if that proposal north of DJD and the 4 tower Bentall project get going along this strip as well.

[outoftheice]

I see the city has now installed traffic lights at 13th Ave and Macleod Trail which is a step in the right direction of creating a truly cross-beltline pedestrian corridor. Does anyone know if there is a plan to create an at grade pedestrian crossing over the LRT tracks? At the moment the Greenway kind of awkwardly dead-ends at the Stampede grounds. An LRT pedestrian crossing would essentially place the Greenway at the front doors of the BMO Centre/Cowboys Casino and help draw traffic along the Greenway's east end. (In my experience most pedestrians still use 17th Ave or 12th Ave to access the Stampede grounds/Saddledome). It looks like perhaps there is some sort of modification happening to the fencing on the east side of the LRT tracks but I'm not sure if that's related to the new traffic lights/potential pedestrian crossing or not....

[UofC.engineer]

I see the city has now installed traffic lights at 13th Ave and Macleod Trail which is a step in the right direction of creating a truly cross-beltline pedestrian corridor. Does anyone know if there is a plan to create an at grade pedestrian crossing over the LRT tracks? At the moment the Greenway kind of awkwardly dead-ends at the Stampede grounds. An LRT pedestrian crossing would essentially place the Greenway at the front doors of the BMO Centre/Cowboys Casino and help draw traffic along the Greenway's east end. (In my experience most pedestrians still use 17th Ave or 12th Ave to access the Stampede grounds/Saddledome). It looks like perhaps there is some sort of modification happening to the fencing on the east side of the LRT tracks but I'm not sure if that's related to the new traffic lights/potential pedestrian crossing or not....


Excellent news, that roadway is underutilized by cars anyways.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0402471,-114.0585146,3a,75y,340.99h,78.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbdJLNgq4zKK7D5vW35RqHg!2e0

P.S. I'd love to see that old building fixed up.

[MasterG]

Excellent news, that roadway is underutilized by cars anyways.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0402471,-114.0585146,3a,75y,340.99h,78.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbdJLNgq4zKK7D5vW35RqHg!2e0

P.S. I'd love to see that old building fixed up.

Macleod Trail North-bound has some gem old store-fronts. It's too bad they are left to decay on such an auto-oriented corridor. Time will change that I think if traffic counts continue to decrease on Macleod and other cross-streets get better priority with all the development in the area. Should help slow down the one-way, wall of high-speed traffic effect that is so destructive to the pedestrian experience there.

Excellent news on the Greenway completing the last block between the Macleods. It is very noticeable how much pedestrian traffic is pulled onto this route. Their is nearly constant pedestrians crossing 2nd Street SW on 13th during rush hour now. The route seems to be attracting people :tup:

[Calgarian]

Macleod Trail North-bound has some gem old store-fronts. It's too bad they are left to decay on such an auto-oriented corridor. Time will change that I think if traffic counts continue to decrease on Macleod and other cross-streets get better priority with all the development in the area. Should help slow down the one-way, wall of high-speed traffic effect that is so destructive to the pedestrian experience there.

Excellent news on the Greenway completing the last block between the Macleods. It is very noticeable how much pedestrian traffic is pulled onto this route. Their is nearly constant pedestrians crossing 2nd Street SW on 13th during rush hour now. The route seems to be attracting people :tup:

13th is how I walk east and west, mostly because there are no lights due to 13th being too narrow for heavy traffic, that and I get the right of way no matter what at most intersections.

Not sure a light is required at 13th and 2nd St SE (MacLeod) though, it won't go anywhere and there is a crossing a block away. I doubt they will build a pedestrian overpass there either, it would go directly onto private property and there is a nice wide sidewalk on 12th and the overpass to the BMO / Saddledome on 15th.

[DizzyEdge]

Excellent news, that roadway is underutilized by cars anyways.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0402471,-114.0585146,3a,75y,340.99h,78.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbdJLNgq4zKK7D5vW35RqHg!2e0

P.S. I'd love to see that old building fixed up.

I'd say 95% chance it will be torn down in the next 5 years.

[Surrealplaces]

The wife and I took a walk down 13th the other day, and we were both impressed by the look and feel of it.

I've been in and around the emerald necklace a lot and have walked portions of it, but have never actually walked a long stretch of it until just now (Walked from 1St SE, to 5th Street SW), and never in the evening until now. My wife was really impressed by how nice it looked and by busy it was, even on a Monday night......

[dazzlingdave88]

Looks like they are starting construction on extending this from 4th street to just past 5th street.

[Wooster]

I love this street. Once the east end is filled out with Gablecraft, Bentall, etc, it'all be such a nice corridor overall!

[MasterG]

Looks like they are starting construction on extending this from 4th street to just past 5th street.

Wait really? I thought this project had completed stalled and was relegated to a dusty shelf? Good news if this is the case :tup:

I would be really interested to see how pedestrian movements have changed before and after this project. Pedestrian movements are never tracked or studied very well, but I would love to prove my observations that 13th avenue and 2nd Street is significantly busier than previously. Pedestrian infrastructure works, successes need to be better documented though.

It would be nice if the original project was updated to include modern traffic design standards like pedestrian bump-outs on corners and zebra crossings. This project seemed to slip through just before the city starting taking pedestrian safety more seriously (on paper in design standards, if not in actual practice).

[dazzlingdave88]

Wait really? I thought this project had completed stalled and was relegated to a dusty shelf? Good news if this is the case :tup:

I would be really interested to see how pedestrian movements have changed before and after this project. Pedestrian movements are never tracked or studied very well, but I would love to prove my observations that 13th avenue and 2nd Street is significantly busier than previously. Pedestrian infrastructure works, successes need to be better documented though.

It would be nice if the original project was updated to include modern traffic design standards like pedestrian bump-outs on corners and zebra crossings. This project seemed to slip through just before the city starting taking pedestrian safety more seriously (on paper in design standards, if not in actual practice).

I can't guarantee it 100%, but there was construction fencing on the south side the whole length of 13 ave from 4th st. past 5th. They sidewalk was dug up and it looked very similar to how they started in the other sections.

[CalgaryAlex]

It was only last year that they completed work on this between 1 St SE and Macleod, so there must be some sort of plan to continue work over time.

I really hope they stretch this all the way to 14th St. I think 13th Ave is a remarkable piece of the pedestrian realm. Other than the lack of advanced pedestrian infrastructure mentioned above by MasterG, it has turned out very well. Quiet, clean, attractive and safe. Even without the extension past 4th St, it already provides a nice stretch for walks during the lunch hour.