[Halifax] TD Tower Expansion | 83 m | 23 fl | Completed

[Dmajackson]

I think its about time this has a proper thread. I've only copied the articles since there were a lot of posts afterwards dealing with both projects.

100

Source: The Chronicle Herald (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1159761.html)

Downtown projects in works
Expansion of TD office tower among Halifax building plans

By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Tue. Dec 29 - 4:45 AM

Barrington Street is on the cusp of several major construction projects that could transform it from what sometimes seems like a ghost town into a bustling city centre.

The owner of the TD building plans to double the size of the downtown office complex, Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly said Monday.

"I think it would be great," Mr. Kelly said.

"It would be class A space. And there is an increased demand for the space, especially with the financial service sector that’s been increasing here. It will certainly bode well for that niche."

The 18-storey building is located on Barrington at the north corner of George Street. The 73-metre building is owned by TDB Halifax Holdings Ltd. The company’s president, Farhad Vladi, is a well-known broker who deals in renting and selling islands worldwide. He has offices in Halifax and Germany. Calls to both offices went unreturned Monday.

The TD building now only occupies half the block between Barrington and Granville streets, said Andy Fillmore, the city’s urban designer.

The east side of the building doesn’t have any windows, he said.

"It’s just a sort of blank, unappealing wall," Mr. Fillmore said. "It was built that way for fire code reasons on the speculation that eventually somebody would eventually build something above the other half of the block."

The owner is going to take advantage of the fact that the glass curtain walls on the existing TD building are at the end of their useful life and need to be replaced, he said.

"They’re going to basically build the other half of the building. So it’s essentially doubling the size of each floor plate," Mr. Fillmore said.

"All that mirrored glass will be replaced by clear glass."

The project will re-create the historic façade of the Kelly luggage building demolished about 18 months ago, he said.

"They’re going to keep the façade of the currently existing flower shop that’s just to the north of the vacant lot, and then they’re going to build behind and above those. In other words, they’re going to be maintaining and even re-creating the historic feel of Granville Street in that area, and then the upper storeys will step back from that."

There’s also whispering that the former NFB building that’s now a facade being held up by steel girders could soon be undergoing construction.

In other downtown development news, the mayor said Lou Reznick is looking at installing a boutique hotel in one of his Barrington Street properties. Mr. Reznick’s company, Starfish Properties, owns the Sam the Record Man buildings, as well as the former Granite Brewery building next door.

"I never comment on tenants; we just want to get our permits approved and get on with construction," Mr. Reznick said in an interview from Toronto.

The work on the three buildings, which Starfish dubs East Space, is moving forward under the new HRM by Design guidelines.

"We should be in front of the design review committee by January or February," Mr. Reznick said.

Chris Galea, a St. Francis Xavier business professor who heads a group of private investors from Ontario, said he has approached Mr. Reznick about the idea of opening a micro boutique hotel in one of his Barrington Street properties.

"As a business model and a place to go, it would be a fantastic spot," Mr. Galea said, noting he’s also looked at other downtown properties for the project.

"It’s a growing phenomenon in Europe where hotels are springing up that are very high-end, but they’ve got very small rooms," Mr. Galea said in a telephone interview from Antigonish.

"Think more like a cabin on a high-end sailboat as opposed to a big, sprawling room. What you save on space costs, both in capital costs and in running the hotel, you end up putting into very good quality in the rooms. But you’re able to offer the rooms at a much more reasonable rate than rooms in a similar location with the same level of amenities."

The standard North American hotel room is around 320 square feet, he said. "We’re talking about rooms of around 100 or 125 square feet," said Mr. Galea, who runs his own hospitality company, South Side Vacations Inc., which rents vacation properties.

The size of the hotel could be adjusted to fit into an existing building, he said.

"Anywhere from a 50- to a 100-room hotel would certainly fit into our business projections," Mr. Galea said.

Mr. Reznick will capitalize on the new heritage grants and incentive program to renovate the facades of the three buildings, said the city’s urban designer.

"He’s tapping in substantially to the new grants program as part of the Barrington Street heritage conservation district," Mr. Fillmore said. "He’s going to be like the poster child for the efficacy of the conservation district."

Two rooftop storeys will be squeezed on to the three existing buildings, he said.

"Those are going to be stepped back significantly and they’re going to be contemporary in design."

Starfish is also planning to tear down the Roy building and re-create the Barrington facade with a 17-storey tower behind it on Granville, Mr. Fillmore said.

( clambie@herald.ca)

More on the TD building. This is is long overdue and a great project. Hopefully the approval process goes through without any delays from opposition. This could probably have it's own thread now.

Source: The Chronicle Herald (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1159868.html)

100

Let the building begin, developer says

By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Wed. Dec 30 - 4:45 AM

The president of the company that plans to double the size of the TD building has thrown down the gauntlet with the $20-million project aimed at providing Halifax its first major dollop of new office space in two decades.

The 18-storey building located on Barrington Street at the north corner of George Street is owned by TDB Halifax Holdings Ltd.

"Everyone has building permits," the company’s president, Farhad Vladi, said Tuesday in a telephone interview from Forsyth Island, off the coast of New Zealand.

He named several local developers who have permits in hand to build new office space.

"But no one really has the guts to start," Mr. Vladi said. "And I guess whoever has the guts will be rewarded."

While Mr. Vladi, a well-known island broker, is president of the company that owns the TD building, he said the equity partner is Gunter Thiel of Switzerland.

"Mr. Thiel, who is the principal, takes the risk, but that’s what you have to do in this kind of environment, otherwise no one starts," he said.

"Someone needs to have the courage and just start. And I am very confident it will be good because Halifax is an excellent location."

Mr. Vladi acknowledges that doubling the size of the TD building, which now occupies half the block between Barrington and Granville streets, will be "a bit easier (than putting up an entirely new structure) because the building already exists and the glass cladding has to be done anyway."

Architect Bill Anwyll said it will cost between $18 million and $20 million to double the size of the building. He’s hoping for approval from the city within three months.

"Then it will be another six months for us to do the working drawings and go to tender," Mr. Anwyll said.

Construction could start as soon as September, he said.

"It’s going to take about a year and a quarter" to build, Mr. Anwyll said.

"Halifax has to, obviously, create some class A office space and this is going to be one of the buildings that is going to help contribute to that," he said.

The TD building’s relatively small existing floor plate can make it difficult to compete with other office buildings, Mr. Anwyll said.

"So people, if they can’t get the floor plate they want, they move into a grade B office, and then they mumble and grumble about how Halifax is the end of the earth and nobody wants to go there because all they’ve got is a bunch of crappy old buildings," he said.

"We’re going to take this building, we’re going to double the size of the floor plate up to a reasonable sort of size. At the same time, we’re going to put in total state-of-the-art, highly efficient mechanical and electrical systems and new cladding on the outside of the building that will make it a whole lot more economical to run. It will essentially be the first decent-sized (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design-certified) building in the Maritimes."

The doubled TD building will have a total of about 208,000 square feet of office space, he said.

No tenants are formally contracted yet, said Robert Richardson, president of Compass Commercial Realty, the building’s property manager.

"We believe there is fairly good appetite given that it will be a LEED-certified building," Mr. Richardson said.

"It’s certainly an attraction for a number of tenants. They do like the fact that it will be very energy efficient and let’s call it, for the lack of a better term, green."

He’s optimistic that the building, which will have a grass roof, won’t be tough to fill.

"There hasn’t been a new building built in Halifax in 20 years," Mr. Richardson said.

"We are . . . confident that we should be able to find quality tenants to take that space."

[worldlyhaligonian]

Good news.

[2B1B]

Be a helluva lot more appealing sitting in Elephant & Castle looking out the windows.....:cheers:

[sdm]

plans are here

www.halifaxdowntown.ca

[fenwick16]

Thanks for the link. Once complete, this will be one of the most impressive buildings in Halifax.

[phrenic]

Good to see their aiming for the conversion to be built to LEED standards as well.

One of the major problems with this building has been its smaller than average floorplans, which have turned off potential larger tenants over the years. It shouldn't have that problem any more.

[sdm]

Good to see their aiming for the conversion to be built to LEED standards as well.

One of the major problems with this building has been its smaller than average floorplans, which have turned off potential larger tenants over the years. It shouldn't have that problem any more.

The floors in the new building will only be 9,000 sqft, so its not the size of the current A class buildings Purdys, Founders Square, and Summit building who have 20,000 square foot plates.

New buildings like Waterside, International place and the trade centre i believe have a miminum 10,000 to 25,000, so i guess it not all that bad.

Nice remodel for sure, but will be interesting how it goes through the process of HRM by Design.

[Jonovision]

It looks good. I was somewhat hoping that there would be some sort of distinction between the new and old section. But overall I think it looks great.

I pulled these off the website.

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/36820/2028239120096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2028239120096709958yQIFht)

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/44645/2541947510096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2541947510096709958ZSQIxU)

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/44471/2080728370096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2080728370096709958TzvzXP)

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/33378/2550380710096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2550380710096709958VcmWmQ)

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/45578/2594996300096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2594996300096709958mVBmFG)

http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/33798/2774179660096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2774179660096709958ivQorJ)

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/44297/2752321670096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2752321670096709958Haajhm)

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/44232/2222913280096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2222913280096709958meYhJp)

[spaustin]

Looks like a big blank wall facing CIBC? Funny since I remember in the HRM By Design presentation that blank wall that's currently there being pulled out in the consultant's presentation as an example of poor design.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Sick.

[sdm]

Looks like a big blank wall facing CIBC? Funny since I remember in the HRM By Design presentation that blank wall that's currently there being pulled out in the consultant's presentation as an example of poor design.

they would be required to have that blank wall to meet building codes (fire protection). There are other ways of dealing with it, but the blank wall is by far the cheapest option. You could have glazing, but would need to make it fire rated.

Personally i rather see the building more stepped in design.

[Dmajackson]

Looks great to me. :tup:

[Wishblade]

Looks great. Better than I was expecting.

Also, apparently this is 23 floors, so can someone change the thread title if possible?

[kph06]

The about us portion of the website is interesting and hints at future projects.

Link (http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/about)

From the first moment the Thiel family set foot in Nova Scotia, they knew their future would be inextricably intertwined with this place. After a vacation here in 2000, they quickly bought property on a lake in Shelburne County, and built a beautiful log home there. Their frequent visits soon led them to an even greater appreciation of the province, its natural beauty and the people who live here, and the family soon began looking for opportunities to invest in Nova Scotia's future.

They discovered the boundless potential for development in downtown Halifax, and concentrated their efforts there. Between 2001 and 2003, the Thiels bought several iconic commercial buildings, including the Royal Bank Tower, the BMO Tower and the TD Tower. Their vision is to develop those buildings and the surrounding blocks downtown to their fullest capacity as a long-term investment for the city, the province and all Nova Scotians. The proposed rejuvenation of the TD Centre is an opportunity for the family to work with HRM to build a new piece of Halifax.

Since establishing themselves here, the Thiels have brought their passion for art to the province, making several generous contributions to the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia (AGNS). The family has combed auctions around the world for just the right pieces to add to the gallery's collection. Günther Thiel has been recognized by the AGNS' Honourary Governor for his exceptional support of the AGNS, the community and the province.

[DigitalNinja]

I pulled some useful information off the website.
First of all is the public consultation.

Public Consultation
One public information session will be held in the main lobby of the TD Centre to present the preliminary design concepts to the public for their feedback. The evening session will be from 7 pm - 9 pm, January 28th.

Three kiosks will be located at HRM Customer Service Centres (Alderney Gate, Scotia Square, West End Mall) from January 11th – 22nd and again from January 28th to February 17th.

Second is the deadline and expected timeline of the development.
It will be about 6 months before they get the permit, after that it seems like they want to start building right away, the overhaul looks like it will take about a year and a half. So about August expect to see some construction :D

http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/milestones

[-Harlington-]

wow, it says on the website that its gonna be 80 meters, thats great:tup:
although for some reason i like the old look

[worldlyhaligonian]

The glass better be that blue.

[alps]

Exceeds my expectations :) though that blank wall is awkward-looking. I know to some extent this would defeat the point of the renovation, but I wish it was stepped back from the Granville St historic facades a liiiiiiitttttle more, even a foot, to furthur accentuate them.

Not to say this change isn't for the better, but I agree with Harlington, I have always liked the look of this tower. It'll lose a bit of its slenderness with the expansion.

[DigitalNinja]

It still looks to be about just as slender looking on the barrington street side, just getting wider as it grows with age :P

[Dmajackson]

Expected completion: 1 year, 7 months (August 2011)

Realistic Halifax: November 2020. ;)

Anyways it looks like a good project and will help the financial district a tonne.

[beyeas]

"Between 2001 and 2003, the Thiels bought several iconic commercial buildings, including the Royal Bank Tower, the BMO Tower and the TD Tower."
- (taken from the halifaxdowntown.ca site"

Interesting... I didn't know that. Makes it more likely in my mind that something may happen in terms of expansion down the road of their other buldings.

[terrynorthend]

I'm not super stoked about this one. I won't say that it doesn't exceed my expectations..but then again they weren't too high to begin with.

I don't like the new cladding; very disappointed with the loss of the mirror effect. As it is now it picks up Grand Parade beautifully. I expect this new glass will look a lot like 1801 Hollis, blue, very opaque, and only reflecting dark shadows of its surroundings. And does anybody have an idea what the 4-5 story "black-glass hole" midway up on the south-east corner is all about?

It doesn't add visual density to downtown. I'd prefer to see another tower downtown than this "fattening" of an existing tower. It gobbles up office space demand without adding much to the look of the CBD. Its not much more exciting than a developer announcing they are putting 200,000 square feet of office space underneath the Metro center.

The green roof is interesting, but not visible except to those in the building, on floors above it.

The Granville Street facade restoration looks contrived, an after thought at best. It doesn't fit well with the glass wall above it, and if these renderings are accurate, its non-practical. That is, just for show rather than for real use. There looks like there is a floorplate running right through the middle of those Granville Street doorways, kind of like an elevator that got stuck between floors.

The new hipped roof line is dated. Looks like a design from about 15 years ago, similar to the previous incarnation of International Place. IP has updated their proposal nicely, while TD is taking a step backwards. Are these the same architects that designed the new trade centre proposal?

[Empire]

I like the Granville St. feature. Mirrorored glass would work better for this building. The current TD building can reflect everything from St. Paul's to Citadel and blue glass "if it really is blue" will blank that out. The overall building will appear shorter and more like the bland CIBC building. The biggest problem with this is the shear blank wall from the roof line down about 3 fl. This will look very odd north looking south. There has to be some attempt to step that roof back or make it a half parymid so that it can be clad in glass. The CIBC building will never get taller so this hidious blank odd shape will be in plain view forever..."it has to go" You will notice there is no view from the north looking south. From Pudry's and the the new downtown at Cogswell St. interchance this will look really really bad. The issue is that the mechanical equipment (chillers/elevator machine room are at the north end of the roof) Even so, there is a way to step or angle that roof and add glass even if it is fake. Glass over concrete is done now on the existing building at every floor slab as with every glass building.

[Takeo]

That hip roof is so ugly.

[someone123]

The renderings probably don't accurately convey what the glass cladding will be like. Some of them also look a little crooked to me.

I agree that the roof is ugly, along with that little fake building front down at the corner of Granville. The Barrington street level design is also about as bad as the current building.

The building could look really good with new cladding, but the design needs to be streamlined more. It should be something more along the lines of United Gulf (without the curving). These current renderings look like Clayton Park level design.

[City_of_Lakes]

True. This development doesn't look to be of the quality that one would want for the downtown core. But these are just renderings.

Also, if that blank wall must stay for building code, can they not just cover it in glass as well? (is that what Empire was getting at?)

[-Harlington-]

what type of building has a code that just leaves a blank wall, and at least do something with it if they have to leave it.

[sdm]

True. This development doesn't look to be of the quality that one would want for the downtown core. But these are just renderings.

Also, if that blank wall must stay for building code, can they not just cover it in glass as well? (is that what Empire was getting at?)

They can cover it with glass as long as the glass meets the fire rated times required.

[Empire]

True. This development doesn't look to be of the quality that one would want for the downtown core. But these are just renderings.

Also, if that blank wall must stay for building code, can they not just cover it in glass as well? (is that what Empire was getting at?)

I think they can do three things.

1. Leave the building at the property line and have fire rated windows.
2. Have the wall at the property line solid concrete but affix standard glass to give the appearance of real windows. (mirrored would work best)
3. Step the building back 5ft. from the property line and used standard glass for the window openings. You can see in the image that CIBC has windows facing south. This is because the building is set back 5ft. from the property line.

This is the cheap way and they want to see if it will fly under the radar so I hope people are all over it.

[sdm]

I think they can do three things.

1. Leave the building at the property line and have fire rated windows.
2. Have the wall at the property line solid concrete but affix standard glass to give the appearance of real windows. (mirrored would work best)
3. Step the building back 5ft. from the property line and used standard glass for the window openings. You can see in the image that CIBC has windows facing south. This is because the building is set back 5ft. from the property line.

This is the cheap way and they want to see if it will fly under the radar so I hope people are all over it.

All the above is correct, except that the distance maybe greater then 5 feet in todays codes.

Yes this is the cheap way of getting around it, but as stated i believe if the HRM by design rules are followed this will not be allowed.

[Empire]

The roof of Founders Square is what is required for this building.....glass sloping on all sides.

[sdm]

The roof of Founders Square is what is required for this building.....glass sloping on all sides.

have to admit Founders Square has one of the best roof designs in the city, albeit a late 1980's building.

I thought HRM by design pushed designs to have more angles and less of a bulking mass design. At least thats what i get from looking from the manual.

[beyeas]

have to admit Founders Square has one of the best roof designs in the city, albeit a late 1980's building.

I thought HRM by design pushed designs to have more angles and less of a bulking mass design. At least thats what i get from looking from the manual.

This will certainly be an interesting test for HbD... the upside for developers was obviously the more clear route to getting an agreement,, but the upside for the public was supposed to be improved building quality/designs.

Here's hoping that this one meets both criteria... the developer gets an agreement in a reasonable time AND they are forced to improve the quality of the project.

[Empire]

have to admit Founders Square has one of the best roof designs in the city, albeit a late 1980's building.

I thought HRM by design pushed designs to have more angles and less of a bulking mass design. At least thats what i get from looking from the manual.

Another style roof that might work is like Purdy's. Stepped in from all directions.

[-Harlington-]

i wouldnt mind a slanted roof really it might look cool from dartmouth, or the roof it alredy has but i dont know how that would fair with the expantion.
a purdys type roof i think would look awkward on this building although i might change my mind when the buildings completed.

[sdm]

i wouldnt mind a slanted roof really it might look cool from dartmouth, or the roof it alredy has but i dont know how that would fair with the expantion.
a purdys type roof i think would look awkward on this building although i might change my mind when the buildings completed.

The western side of the building already has similar design elements to purdys, so that should give one a sense of what it could look like.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Well, the ultimate positive is the groundfloor and the fix for the empty lot.

I think the roof will end up looking fine... we are looking at mostly arial type renderings and most of us will never see that angle.

[miesh111]

Article on All Nova Scotia this morning with renderings of the new tower. Looks great! I'll try and get the image up...

[miesh111]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_f-enLI8Mi_U/S08p9KTTOMI/AAAAAAAAACE/ZL7HzJV7bvM/td%20tower%201.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_f-enLI8Mi_U/S08q78zM3JI/AAAAAAAAACU/ePfHI7_alF0/td%20tower%202.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_f-enLI8Mi_U/S08q8H1poCI/AAAAAAAAACY/d3CCTit5cqs/td%20tower%203.JPG

[Dmajackson]

They've added the link to the website to the HRM website so its now officially proposed.

[planarchy]

Public meeting tonight concerning this project:

Lobby of the TD building, 7pm-9pm.

[Empire]

Public meeting tonight concerning this project:

Lobby of the TD building, 7pm-9pm.

I hope they hear the message that roof has to change from several people......

[sdm]

I hope they hear the message that roof has to change from several people......

Its been reported that the some elements of the redesign actually may not pass HRM by design.

[Dmajackson]

I think its a good idea to have a before picture of this (photo by me);

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4439613454_521cbf1a31_b.jpg

[Jonovision]

A Tim Bousquet article from this weeks Coast.

TD Building re-design proposal revealed
Plans call for the demolition of 1820s-era Macara-Barnstead Building, now housing The Flower Shop
POSTED BY TIM BOUSQUET ON TUE, MAY 18, 2010 AT 2:43 PM

http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/td-building-re-design-proposal-revealed/b/original/1651082/d1ee/Picture_2.png

Toronto-Dominion Bank wants to nearly triple the size of its 18-storey Barrington Street tower. The plan calls for the demolition of the Macara-Barnstead Building on Granville Street, a registered historic property that dates to the 1820s.
Architect Bill Anwyll unveilled the plans last Thursday before the Design Review Committee. That committee reviews all building proposals and determines if they meet the design criteria established by the HRM By Design planning rules for downtown.

The TD building was built in 1972, explained Anwyll. The full tower sits to the south of the CIBC building on Barrington, and extends back only half a block, because at the time of construction TD didn't own the two lots on Granville. (One lot is occupied by the Barnstead building. The second is now empty, but once was the site of the historic Kellys Leather Goods Store, which was demolished in 2006.) TD has since acquired both lots.

Along George Street, the tower drops to a four-storey "podium," as to preserve the protected view shed from Citadel Hill down the George Street corridor to the harbour. That podium extends to Granville Street.

The TD proposal fills in the block, by extending the tower back to Granville Street. The podium would remain in its current configuration, but the facade at the corner of George and Granville would be reworked to be consistent with the larger building. There would also be a three-storey pyramid-shaped extension to the top of the tower, two storeys of which would be rentable office space, with the third storey housing some of the building's equipment.

The bigger building would increase the space on each floor from the present 3,500 square feet to 9,800 square feet, said Anwyll. He did not say, but that increase presumably does not include the podium or the pyramid. The overall increase in office space would be in the neighbourhood of 110,000 square feet; Anwyll gave no indication whether the bank would use the extra space itself, or lease it out.

Thanks to more efficient design, the bigger building would use less energy than the existing building, said Anwyll.

The Macara-Barnstead Building

http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/td-building-re-design-proposal-revealed/b/original/1651083/946d/The_Flower_Shop.jpg

TD's plans call for demolishing the Macara-Barnstead Building, although responding to a question from a committee member, Anwyll objected to that characterization. "We're not going to demolish the building," he said. "We’re going to deconstruct the rear of the building, which has very limited heritage value, but maintain the front facade... The intent is to get it looking like it looked in the 1870s."
Anwyll was referring to a brick extension to the rear of the building constructed in the 1880s, but in fact, the plan is to tear down the entire building, save for the facade and parts of three stone walls. Those walls now extend all the way to the rear of the original building (in the picture above, the exterior wall is one of the three walls), but TD intends to keep only the easternmost 12 feet of each wall. Keeping any more of the walls would interfere with the rentability of the space, said Anwyll.

Asked if The Flower Shop would be back in the reconstructed space, Anwyll said no. “The reality is that The Flower Shop is in this building because it’s a relatively inexpensive space to rent. When it’s new and it has air conditioning and proper heating and little things like that, and everybody wants to be there because it's in such a lovely condition on the street, the rent’s going to go up.”

"We think that entire building is important," said Phil Pacey of the Heritage Trust, after the meeting. "It's one of the few stone buildings left in the city."

The new building would also recreate the lost facade of the Kelly building along Granville Street.

Process issues

At a previous meeting, Pacey had asked to address the committee, to lay out his view that demolishing the Macara-Barnstead Building goes against the design guidelines laid out in HRM By Design. The committee, which was only created this year, had not yet drawn up rules for public presentations; at that time they voted not to allow presentations from the public.

That decision didn't sit right with four members of the committee, who insisted last week that their contrary views be recorded in the minutes of the earlier meeting.

"The developer just spoke before the committee for, what, an hour?" said Pacey after the meeting. "We think it's within our democratic rights to also address the committee."

As for the building proposal itself, TD will need two variances from the Halifax council in order to get permission to build. Both variances are needed to make the project economically viable, said Anwyll.

The first involves extending the front facade, above the Macara-Barnstead facade, to 41 metres before it is stepped back from the street. HRM By Design guidelines dictate a stepback after 37.5 metres in height.

The second variance would apply to the north side of the new portion of the building, facing the CIBC building. Planning rules say that after the first 33.5 metres of height, new construction must be stepped back at least 17 metres from the common property line. Abiding by those rules would leave a large blank space omitted from the otherwise square tower. Anwyll argued that it made no difference, except to the people in the CIBC building, if that blank space was filled in, because the existing tower already blocks views and sunlight.

The Design Review Committee will formally decide on the merits of the TD proposal at its next meeting, which hasn't been scheduled yet.

[Dmajackson]

^Damn you just beat me to it. :P

While I am not a major supporter of facadism if they are planning to recreate the Kelly building section while updating the other building to modern standards I think it would be acceptable in this case. In my mind it balances out the ups and downs of this proposal. When the entire block is consolidated into one high quality building it will probably look a lot better than the cut form it currently has though the weird podium heading down George Street will still be present (whats that viewplane for anyway?).

Though this is not reallly "new construction" since this expansion is 18 storeys this will be a major test for taller proposals going through the HbD process.

[halifaxboyns]

I think the committee vote was fine - not to allow Pacey to speak. From what I understand, the committee functions much like the Planning Commission that we have here in Calgary.

The Calgary Planning Commission (CPC) functions much like a technical design review for land use applications and certain development permits, so in a sense it would be like a site plan application. Now typically, the planner involved in the file will present, answer technical questions and if there are questions which say only the applicant could answer - the question gets differed to the applicant, they come up and answer only that question. No one gets to speak other than that or any other reps from staff for engineering or transportation.

So while the committee members may oppose the motion not allowing Pacey to speak; if the function is much like CPC then they did the right thing. Plus isn't the appeal of the approval to City Council? So if they don't like it; appeal it.

[joeyedm]

anything to prevent pacey from opening his yap is fine by me.

[mcmcclassic]

anything to prevent pacey from opening his yap is fine by me.

The developers were probably pleased by that decision too :tup:

[fenwick16]

Phil Pacey has found a way to give a presentation against this TD Tower expansion (according to allnovascotia.com). Why does he have so much influence in the Halifax area? If he has the right to give a presentation against will there be a resident who can voice a presentation in favour?

If Phil Pacey and the Heritage Trust was against HRM by Design then why is he using it to fight this development? Shouldn't someone point out that they are planning to replace the reflective glass that is not allowed by HRM by Design.

[mcmcclassic]

Phil Pacey has found a way to give a presentation against this TD Tower expansion (according to allnovascotia.com). Why does he have so much influence in the Halifax area?

I've been wondering the same thing for ages. Imagine if there was a developer with the same amount of sway Pacey had...

[JET]

I've been wondering the same thing for ages. Imagine if there was a developer with the same amount of sway Pacey had...

Ben McCrea perhaps? Given the numbers of premiers that have thrown support behind particular developers (sometimes good), I would say that some developers have a fair amount of influence. JET

[fenwick16]

Ben McCrea perhaps? Given the numbers of premiers that have thrown support behind particular developers (sometimes good), I would say that some developers have a fair amount of influence. JET

Ben McCrea deserves a civic award. He did the Founders Square development and I think he also redeveloped Historic Properties.

Do people in the Halifax area really want a bunch of dilapidated buildings in the city. Where do you think all these buildings came from in the first place. They didn't just spring up out of the ground (even the old ones were built by developers). I don't see people like Phil Pacey going out and raising money and getting building permits to preserve old buildings. (This might be a far better use of the Heritage Trust's money instead of spending it on lawyers.)

At one time development was able to proceed in the Halifax area; when will these anti-development people catch up with the 21th century (maybe they should start by catching up to the 20th century). Does Halifax have to crumble to the ground before these people will wise up? Why must Halifax be stuck in the 1800's?

[JET]

Ben McCrea deserves a civic award. He did the Founders Square development and I think he also redeveloped Historic Properties.

Do people in the Halifax area really want a bunch of dilapidated buildings in the city. Where do you think all these buildings came from in the first place. They didn't just spring up out of the ground (even the old ones were built by developers). I don't see people like Phil Pacey going out and raising money and getting building permits to preserve old buildings. (This might be a far better use of the Heritage Trust's money instead of spending it on lawyers.)

At one time development was able to proceed in the Halifax area; when will these anti-development people catch up with the 21th century (maybe they should start by catching up to the 20th century). Does Halifax have to crumble to the ground before these people will wise up? Why must Halifax be stuck in the 1800's?

Fenwick, my statement was in response to the question: "Imagine if there was a developer with the same amount of sway Pacey had..."
Although Mr. Pacey is able to speak out about heritage, it is the developers that have the influence. Very rarely are old buildings saved (even the facades in most cases) in Halifax. It is good that someone speaks out about heritage. The TD plan is to save the facade of the Macara-Barnstead Building
and recreate the facade of the Kelly building. That's good. If someone wasn't speaking out about heritage then no effort would be made to maintain some aspects of heritage. There is a need for balance, not only in construction, but also in dialogue. Doesn't seem unreasonable.

[mcmcclassic]

I'm not against recreating the street level heritage buildings on Granville st, I just worry that when Phil and the HT get involved in something like this project it will be either delayed or killed off altogether. If they expanded the tower and remade the Kelly building and such that would be excellent and a fair balance for both "sides"

[eastcoastal]

I have to say that I do not like the idea of recreating the Kelly Building. It's an affront to the actual heritage building right next to it. Better to have something high-quality, reflective of today, adding to the city's urban fabric.

As for the rest of the proposal, I haven't made my mind up. Not much about this makes me super excited.

[fenwick16]

I don't see the point of recreating a heritage building (the Kelly building) unless they actually still have the original facade materials from the building (unlikely). Recreating it seems too much Disneyland-ish.

Based on the renderings it looks good to me. I have always thought that the TD building was too narrow for such a height. The final result would seem to be already known, it is already there and they are just expanding it; so there shouldn't be any surprises and it will create more office space downtown with very minimal adverse effect.

[planarchy]

Fenwick, my statement was in response to the question: "Imagine if there was a developer with the same amount of sway Pacey had..."
Although Mr. Pacey is able to speak out about heritage, it is the developers that have the influence. Very rarely are old buildings saved (even the facades in most cases) in Halifax. It is good that someone speaks out about heritage. The TD plan is to save the facade of the Macara-Barnstead Building
and recreate the facade of the Kelly building. That's good. If someone wasn't speaking out about heritage then no effort would be made to maintain some aspects of heritage. There is a need for balance, not only in construction, but also in dialogue. Doesn't seem unreasonable.

I agree completely with JET - some developers have a tremendous amount of pull in this city. And while it seems like Heritage Trust is out to stop all development this really isn't the case. And the reality is that that majority of projects that are proposed by developers for Halifax are medicore at best - cheap materials, terrible design and inappropriate for the proposed site. You just have to look at all the suburban style developments that litter the peninsula - parking lots adjacent to the street, vinyl siding, , little to no relation to the street.

While I certainly don't agree with Heritage Trust and support many projects they fight against - such as the Waterside Centre - I also wouldn't want a number of other ill-conceived projects to proceed - such as the WTCC mess. With so much civic apathy, there needs to be some voice that challenges bad development (and there is lots of it). Unfortunately no other influential group exists to fill this role, so HT is the compromise. That being said, I wish they would bring in a few individuals to better guide them on the potential of good urban design to compliment existing heritage structures.

[fenwick16]

Why not just have a plebiscite on every single development that comes along? Most people seem to like the WTCC proposal so why are so few people making it sound so bad? Too tall, too much glass, not enough glass, too close to the Citadel, no residential component, too many hotel rooms, too much office space, etc., etc., etc.

The TD building is already there - they are just talking about expanding it. Is this really worthy of opposition - if it is, then why not just say all new development must go in the suburbs or some other province? Like it is now ....

[DigitalNinja]

Why not just have a plebiscite on every single development that comes along? Most people seem to like the WTCC proposal so why are so few people making it sound so bad? Too tall, too much glass, not enough glass, too close to the Citadel, no residential component, too many hotel rooms, too much office space, etc., etc., etc.

The TD building is already there - they are just talking about expanding it. Is this really worthy of opposition - if it is, then why not just say all new development must go in the suburbs or some other province? Like it is now ....

They are desperate to look for excuses. It's getting to the point that people oppose stuff just for the hell of opposing something. It's the hip thing to do.

[eastcoastal]

They are desperate to look for excuses. It's getting to the point that people oppose stuff just for the hell of opposing something. It's the hip thing to do.
Yikes - hope you're not suggesting that the Heritage Trust is "hip." lol

I have felt that for a long time the Heritage Trust has diluted their message with arguments based on height and economic factors. They must feel those arguments are linked to broader heritage preservation issues, but to me it just makes them seem desperate. They destroy any credible points they have to make with all their other BS.

[fenwick16]

http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/img/images/19-OCT_3.jpg

Although I would like to see this proceed as soon as possible, I think that the developer should do a better job of maintaining the one remaining building. Since the Kelly building is already gone they could just focus on the one remaining building and keep the exterior and interior intact but they would have to rebuild it and bring it up to modern building codes. They would have to actually build over the heritage building (instead of just keeping the facade and incorporating it into the building structure). Then they could just restore the facade of the torn down Kelly building.

I don't really like the way they have new building storeys clearly visible in the front window of the heritage building. This remaining building could be used as ground floor retail. I think this would benefit the developer by adding some interesting detail to the building. However, HRM should 1) allow the developers more square footage in return or 2) provide subsidies to the builder in order to restore the heritage building that remains.

Sometimes people like to compare Quebec City and Halifax. However, based on what I have read, the Quebec provincial government has spent hundreds of millions towards heritage preservation in Quebec City. If heritage is to be maintained in Halifax then tax dollars will be required and commitments from the municipal, provincial and federal government to rent restored office space.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I agree... I think there needs to be more of a setback.. so it appears as though the storefronts are actual buildings as opposed to facads tacked onto the outside of a tower.

I think Founders Square did a good job with this... on the north side of the development.

[fenwick16]

I agree... I think there needs to be more of a setback.. so it appears as though the storefronts are actual buildings as opposed to facads tacked onto the outside of a tower.

I think Founders Square did a good job with this... on the north side of the development.

Or possibly just remove the two new storeys over the heritage building so that the setback is at the top the remaining heritage building and then keep the present floor levels in the heritage building (or at least have it so that people can walk into the heritage building from street level - the rendering shows a floor about 3 -4 four feet above ground level in front of the present day door).

[someone123]

Sometimes people like to compare Quebec City and Halifax. However, based on what I have read, the Quebec provincial government has spent hundreds of millions towards heritage preservation in Quebec City. If heritage is to be maintained in Halifax then tax dollars will be required and commitments from the municipal, provincial and federal government to rent restored office space.

Both provincial and federal governments have invested far more into preserving and reconstructing Quebec City.

I don't think people realize how rare buildings like Macara-Barnstead are in Canada. Toronto has nothing like that from that era, and those buildings are important to providing context for some others like Province House. Province House is a building without an equal anywhere else in Canada - it is the oldest legislature that houses the oldest elected assembly (turned 250 in 2008).

At this point I do like the model of mixed new development, preservation, and facadism, but there has to be a lot of care.

[fenwick16]

Both provincial and federal governments have invested far more into preserving and reconstructing Quebec City.

I don't think people realize how rare buildings like Macara-Barnstead are in Canada. Toronto has nothing like that from that era, and those buildings are important to providing context for some others like Province House. Province House is a building without an equal anywhere else in Canada - it is the oldest legislature that houses the oldest elected assembly (turned 250 in 2008).

At this point I do like the model of mixed new development, preservation, and facadism, but there has to be a lot of care.

Yes in this case I have to say that I now agree with Phil Pacey on this one. Buildings like this should be restored as much as possible instead of just being replaced with a facade. But the developers shouldn't be made out to be the bad guys. Subsidies should be made available to do it.

The Kelly building never should have been torn down. However, the three levels of government are partly to blame (in other words everyone, including residents of the city since they are the one paying the taxes to the government). The developers aren't the bad guys here - telling them to preserve heritage is like telling all HRM residents to spend money on heritage.

The Waterside redevelopment is actually preserving much more of the original buildings than this one is.

[someone123]

As I've mentioned in another thread, heritage preservation is for the public good so the public should pay for it.

Unfortunately a lot of HRM policies are half measures designed to be as cheap as possible or are just horribly crafted and produce the wrong incentives. The cost of restoring and maintaining old heritage buildings and the opportunity cost of keeping them instead of replacing them with a highrise are huge. The possible benefits to the public of having a unique, irreplaceable heritage district are also huge - much larger than the direct benefits to the owner. Cases like this are ones where subsidy makes sense.

I think people also look at the situation incorrectly sometimes when it comes to investing in new infrastructure. Too often I hear "let the private sector do it!" but the reality is that there are many, many projects worth doing from a government cost-benefit perspective that a private company would never take on since they do not capture the same benefits but would have to absorb the same cost.

[Dmajackson]

Change at the banks
Building plans will attract global firms, architect says
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Wed, Oct 13 - 4:53 AM

DOWNTOWN Halifax’s banking landscape will be transformed in the next decade, says Bill Anwyll of Anwyll Fogo Architects Ltd.

"This will be a good thing for Halifax," he said in an interview on Tuesday. "These are buildings that international firms will want to move into."

The Halifax architecture firm is designing the $20-million expansion of the 18-storey TD Centre at Barrington and George streets for its owner, TDB Halifax Holdings Ltd.

The plan, which will double the building’s space to 208,000 square feet, includes the restoration of the 19th-century facade of the Granville Street side of the structure to realize $400,000 in density increase writedowns still being negotiated with HRM, Anwyll said.

TDB Halifax Holdings principal Gunter Thiel also controls, through other companies, the Royal Bank block bounded by Granville, Hollis, Duke and George streets and the Bank of Montreal building on George Street.

Anwyll said both of those bank towers will be demolished and replaced with new, energy-efficient office complexes.

The plan involves moving RBC tenants into the expanded TD Centre while the RBC block is rebuilt and moving Bank of Montreal building tenants into the new RBC complex until construction of the new Bank of Montreal tower is completed.

Anwyll estimated the TD Centre expansion will take two years and the RBC development, which would replace the existing 12-storey bank and office tower with a 22- to 24-storey structure, will take 2 1/2 years beyond that.

The whole development process, which would see the existing 17-storey Bank of Montreal building replaced by a "slightly taller" structure, would take 10 to 12 years, he said.

Anwyll said the new buildings will replace aging office towers that are well past their best-before dates.

"They will bring in large national and international companies," he said, estimating that the buildings will consume less than half the energy of the existing buildings.

Anwyll said the RBC plan involves saving the Merrill Lynch Building on the corner of George and Granville streets and maintaining other historic facades on the block.

He said the projects meet all municipal planning restrictions but he expects they will be criticized by opponents of downtown development.

"A lot of people don’t like change."

Phil Pacey, chairman of the HRM committee with Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia, said all three projects fail to comply with HRM by Design development provisions, including the preservation of historic components.

"Several historic buildings are reduced to facades," he said on Tuesday. "That would be most unfortunate."

Robert Richardson, president of Compass Commercial Realty, which will lease and manage the properties, said there is a demand for modern buildings in downtown Halifax.

"You need balance," he said, noting that many tenants don’t want to lease space in old buildings that can’t be readily adapted to different functions.

( berskine@herald.ca )

Other than the Phil Pacey rant this article at least shows the development has some potential to change the office landscape in Downtown Halifax.

[Haliguy]

Anybody else gettting sick of Phil Pacey criticizing everyone who is trying to do something in downtown Halifax and yet they have a complete eyesore with that house they saved down on Hollis St that they have done absolutely nothing with at all.

[sdm]

Anybody else gettting sick of Phil Pacey criticizing everyone who is trying to do something in downtown Halifax and yet they have a complete eyesore with that house they saved down on Hollis St that they have done absolutely nothing with at all.

Someone should come out in the media and point blank ask the heritage trust how savign that house is going.

Times tickin

[JET]

"Anwyll said the new buildings will replace aging office towers that are well past their best-before dates."

How old are these buildings?

[DigitalNinja]

Between 50-30 years. RBC was built in 1960 (50 years), TD in 1974 (36 years) I couldn't find a date for BMO but I would say somewhere in between.

[Jonovision]

Here are the small renderings from the article.

http://halifaxchronicle.can.newsmemory.com/newsmemvol1/canada/halifaxchronicle/20101013/ch_pe_10-13-10_c01.pdf.0/img/Image_5.jpg

http://halifaxchronicle.can.newsmemory.com/newsmemvol1/canada/halifaxchronicle/20101013/ch_pe_10-13-10_c01.pdf.0/img/Image_4.jpg

[JET]

Between 50-30 years. RBC was built in 1960 (50 years), TD in 1974 (36 years) I couldn't find a date for BMO but I would say somewhere in between.

Interesting that buildings that have been around for a couple of hundred years( and need a bit of a fix up) are being torn down to build something that has a best-before-date of fifty years. I'm just sayin'...

[DigitalNinja]

You have to take the comment in a current day context.
By him saying a best before date, just means that it is cheaper and more economical to totally redesign these buildings, add onto etc, rather than to upgrade them in their current forms.
The same was done with those builds from many years ago, parts were added on, re cladded, etc. Nothing new here, the buildings will see be 50 years old, but it will be a major renovation

[JET]

You have to take the comment in a current day context.
By him saying a best before date, just means that it is cheaper and more economical to totally redesign these buildings, add onto etc, rather than to upgrade them in their current forms.
The same was done with those builds from many years ago, parts were added on, re cladded, etc. Nothing new here, the buildings will see be 50 years old, but it will be a major renovation

I understand waht you are saying about renos, but in the article: "Anwyll said both of those bank towers will be demolished and replaced with new, energy-efficient office complexes." That's what is amazing about a 50ish year old building. Cripes, that's my age. :(

[beyeas]

Interesting that buildings that have been around for a couple of hundred years( and need a bit of a fix up) are being torn down to build something that has a best-before-date of fifty years. I'm just sayin'...

To be honest I had a similar reaction at one point when I was reading about all this.

But I think there is a definite difference. 1st of all, we don't keep every 100 year old building, just (as you said) the interesting ones.
If you look at the Dominion Public Building (the old parts of which are 75 years old) it went through a major addition and upgrade about 40-50 years ago, and then went through significant refurb recently. It is a great example in my mind of a building that is worth continually fixing up even though it is a 20th century and therefore not "old" building.

However, there is nothing especially interesting about the RBC building, and I wouldn't be sad to see it go. It's just a building, and like many bland structures they eventually come down. I will admit that I do think that in many other cities with "normal" development pacings that this would instead retire to being low rent Class B space, but Halifax isn't normal, and given that people fight tooth and nail to keep sites from having tall buildings, it is likely easier here to just knock it down and build on the same site.

As much as I won't be sad to see the RBC building go, I am not quite so much in favour of the BMO building going. I actually like that one, and it actually has some reasonable quality building materials to it.

[fenwick16]

As much as I won't be sad to see the RBC building go, I am not quite so much in favour of the BMO building going. I actually like that one, and it actually has some reasonable quality building materials to it.

I wouldn't mind seeing a building with a similar exterior to the current BMO - since people like it (why not make it different than the other two?)

[Empire]

I wouldn't mind seeing a building with a similar exterior to the current BMO - since people like it (why not make it different than the other two?)

I agree, I like the current style of BMO. It looks like a bank tower. If it were to be rebuilt in a similar style with polished granite and a grand piazza it would be a better fit. The piazza would be a great people space with fountains and real public art.

[mcmcclassic]

For the record, the BMO tower was built (finished) in 1971.

[terrynorthend]

Hmm. How would these be taken down? Implosion??:cool:

[worldlyhaligonian]

Why don't they just renovate BMO... its a quality tower.

Of course the HT folks only give a shit about squat old, mostly wooden frame buildings.

[Empire]

Between 50-30 years. RBC was built in 1960 (50 years), TD in 1974 (36 years) I couldn't find a date for BMO but I would say somewhere in between.

TD, CIBC and phase 1 of Maritime Centre were all built in 1976.

[worldlyhaligonian]

TD, CIBC and phase 1 of Maritime Centre were all built in 1976.

Yeah, its totally feasible that we can have a couple office developments be built here in 2010.

I'm suprised RBC Dexia doesn't have a presence in Halifax... we probably produce more Finance grads per capita than any city in Canada.

[halifaxboyns]

I will say this - the renderings are certainly a lot nicer than the model photographs that Jono had.

I got the feeling that perhaps the model may have been a rush job for the downtown summit (I noticed some of the floors seemed a little uneven). It looks to me like the colours of each building are a little different.

The BMO building is interesting but design wise, I like the RBC one. That's just me.

I've worked in the Dominion public building 3 summers in a row in university - the inside atrium of that building is amazing. I remember watching fireworks from the 7th floor (I think) where the Regional Director of PWGSC's office was (Public Works/Government Services Canada). I worked on the ground floor on the side that faces George street. Oddly enough, my boss at the time was named George! :)

[Keith P.]

However, there is nothing especially interesting about the RBC building, and I wouldn't be sad to see it go. It's just a building, and like many bland structures they eventually come down. I will admit that I do think that in many other cities with "normal" development pacings that this would instead retire to being low rent Class B space, but Halifax isn't normal, and given that people fight tooth and nail to keep sites from having tall buildings, it is likely easier here to just knock it down and build on the same site.

As much as I won't be sad to see the RBC building go, I am not quite so much in favour of the BMO building going. I actually like that one, and it actually has some reasonable quality building materials to it.

Funny thing. I happened to be downtown this afternoon sitting in traffic in front of these buildings and took the opportunity to look at their exteriors with a view to design. The RBC is, IMO, the better-looking exterior. It has some sort of white vertical members - not sure if they are metal, stone, or something else - with a metal filler below each window, and polished black granite on the lower level. The BMO building is just early precast concrete panels with some raised vertical sections. I grant you that BMO is taller and somewhat more impressive, but I like the RBC look better. I'm not sure a glass-clad replacement is much of a step up from a design point of view, though a bigger building would obviously be more impressive.

[spaustin]

Funny thing. I happened to be downtown this afternoon sitting in traffic in front of these buildings and took the opportunity to look at their exteriors with a view to design. The RBC is, IMO, the better-looking exterior. It has some sort of white vertical members - not sure if they are metal, stone, or something else - with a metal filler below each window, and polished black granite on the lower level. The BMO building is just early precast concrete panels with some raised vertical sections. I grant you that BMO is taller and somewhat more impressive, but I like the RBC look better. I'm not sure a glass-clad replacement is much of a step up from a design point of view, though a bigger building would obviously be more impressive.

Yeah but the RBC is the worst of the lot down at street level. It's a pretty hostile presence along Hollis Street. Just a big wall.

[sdm]

Yeah but the RBC is the worst of the lot down at street level. It's a pretty hostile presence along Hollis Street. Just a big wall.

Well it looks like the new design (rbc) will be the same big wall as well.

[spaustin]

Well it looks like the new design (rbc) will be the same big wall as well.

Yeah, it depends on where the floor ends up. If the glass isn't too reflective and opaque and the floor were a little lower, you would at least see into the building as you walked by. Not great, but a little better than the wall that's currently there. They could obviously do better than that though if they're redesigning it! :) I was just trying to say that whether or not the RBC is the superior building in terms of material, the BMO is far better in terms of its street level. It too is a bit bland at ground level, but at least it doesn't crowd Hollis and George.

[sdm]

Yeah, it depends on where the floor ends up. If the glass isn't too reflective and opaque and the floor were a little lower, you would at least see into the building as you walked by. Not great, but a little better than the wall that's currently there. They could obviously do better than that though if they're redesigning it! :) I was just trying to say that whether or not the RBC is the superior building in terms of material, the BMO is far better in terms of its street level. It too is a bit bland at ground level, but at least it doesn't crowd Hollis and George.

Agree, BMO building is a better at street level.

[isaidso]

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/44471/2080728370096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2080728370096709958TzvzXP)


If they're going to the effort of expanding, why wouldn't they make better use of the whole lot. The south side only goes up a few floors.

[someone123]

If they're going to the effort of expanding, why wouldn't they make better use of the whole lot. The south side only goes up a few floors.

I believe the south part of the lot falls under a viewplane while the rest does not.

Still don't like the roof shape and some improvements should be made at street level. Not sure how they intend to handle the Barrington and George corner exactly but right now the TD building has a lot of blank walls.

The Granville Street facades look okay, although I don't know why the corner facade has a giant cornice and is only 2 storeys:

http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/img/images/GRANVILLE-STREET.jpg
Source (http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/img/images/GRANVILLE-STREET.jpg)

[fenwick16]

I wish that they would do a better job of restoring the remaining heritage building. In the rendering below, it appears as though there is a floor that is at midway height to the front window. I actually like the slanted glass roof on the TD tower renderings - it is a bit like the Founders Square slanted roof (maybe the TD Bank developer should add a circular window as in Founders Square)

(source: http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/images )
http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/img/images/19-OCT_3.jpg

[Empire]

I wish that they would do a better job of restoring the remaining heritage building. In the rendering below, it appears as though there is a floor that is at midway height to the front window. I actually like the slanted glass roof on the TD tower renderings - it is a bit like the Founders Square slanted roof (maybe the TD Bank developer should add a circular window as in Founders Square)

(source: http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/images )
http://www.halifaxdowntown.ca/img/images/19-OCT_3.jpg

It's the north facing roof elevation that looks Mickey Mouse. It's a shear slab facing CIBC and is out of sync with the rest of the roof.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/TDroof.jpg

[isaidso]

I believe the south part of the lot falls under a viewplane while the rest does not.


I see. Perhaps, Halifax's CBD should re-locate to Dartmouth where there are fewer restrictions to growth. I find the Halifax view plane requirement really daft; you can't see the harbour from Citadel Hill and people go to the waterfront to see the water not the Citadel. All they're accomplishing is helping Halifax stay stuck in a time warp and turning it into a colonial theme park.

Halifax needs to decide whether it wants to change/adapt/grow or become a museum.

[spaustin]

I see. Perhaps, Halifax's CBD should re-locate to Dartmouth where there are fewer restrictions to growth. I find the Halifax view plane requirement really daft; you can't see the harbour from Citadel Hill and people go to the waterfront to see the water not the Citadel. All they're accomplishing is helping Halifax stay stuck in a time warp and turning it into a colonial theme park.

Halifax needs to decide whether it wants to change/adapt/grow or become a museum.

Actually, this particular view plane is one that's rather important and worth preserving. It's not a sliver of harbour and the oil refinery, it's the view up George Street through Grande Parade to the Old Town Clock. In terms of views worth saving, forget the Citadel, it's this vista that's the most important and historically significant one that we have. To crowd it would be a mistake.

[sdm]

It's the north facing roof elevation that looks Mickey Mouse. It's a shear slab facing CIBC and is out of sync with the rest of the roof.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/TDroof.jpg

Reason for that is the fact that wall would require fire rating levels that would require either 1) a blank wall (which i will note is not allowed in HRM by design) or 2) glass with curtain wall sprinkler system.

[Empire]

Reason for that is the fact that wall would require fire rating levels that would require either 1) a blank wall (which i will note is not allowed in HRM by design) or 2) glass with curtain wall sprinkler system.

The wall needs to be set back from the property line by 5ft. so that the fire rating can be waived. If the roof were pitched to match the south side it would be a work around as well.

[sdm]

The wall needs to be set back from the property line by 5ft. so that the fire rating can be waived. If the roof were pitched to match the south side it would be a work around as well.

Well i am not sure of the required distance, however one simple fact remains. No blank walls should be allowed, they are just so ugly.

[beyeas]

Well i am not sure of the required distance, however one simple fact remains. No blank walls should be allowed, they are just so ugly.

:tup: 100% agree. Biggest problem with the TD and RBC buildings are the blank walls (followed by the lack of street level interaction... but the blank wall is the worst)