Bayer's Lake Developments & Discussion Thread

[Dmajackson]

Found this in the Burnside News today;

Plazacorp says thanks, but no thanks
BAYERS LAKE
KEN PARTRIDGE
The Burnside News

Plazacorp has decided to walk away from its option to purchase and develop more than 80 acres of commercial property in the Bayers Lake Business Park.

Plazacorp had an exclusive opportunity to develop the land located behind Kent Building Supplies into a new retail node in the busy Bayers Lake Park. Preliminary plans and designs were drawn up and a road network worked out, but HRM’s Business Parks Office says the company has decided not to pursue the project.

“I can confirm that Plazacorp, as part of its due diligence, has exercised its condition under the Agreement of Purchase and Sale and will not be proceeding with the purchase,” says Michael Wile, Business Parks manager, in a letter to the Bayers Lake Business Association.

Wile says no detailed reasoning was given by the company for why it decided to walk away, though he suspects it’s “probably a sign of the times,” referring to the current recession.

Council is now considering it options on what to do with the land. Wile says it would likely be several months before a final decision is made on whether to reoffer the land to other developers.

The delay stems from a desire to have several other items dealt with prior to any future development taking place. These include final approval for the Business Parks Functional Plan, as well as the creation of a third entrance/exit point for the park.

On that front, Council has awarded a $195,939 tender to SNC Lavalin for consulting design services on the Washmill Lake Court underpass beneath Highway 102.

“The completion of the underpass has been identified and endorsed by Council as a prerequisite to any further expansion at Bayers Lake,” Wile says. “Moving forward with the functional design will add significant value to future discussions with potential purchasers and/or development partners.”

The consulting design work is expected to be complete by mid-summer and will include costing the entire project along the new corridor through Halifax Water Commission lands to where it will meet up with Main Avenue.

Once complete, the design would be vetted by HRM Design and Construction Services before being passed to Council for final approval. However, there is currently no budget attached to the construction phase of the project. Wile says the original plan was to cover the cost of construction through the sale of land to Plazacorp. With that deal now gone, another plan will have to be put in place.

[Spitfire75]

On that front, Council has awarded a $195,939 tender to SNC Lavalin for consulting design services on the Washmill Lake Court underpass beneath Highway 102.


Finally! This is the dead end up by the theater and it's a good spot for another entrance/exit.

[ScovaNotian]

I hope they'll consider the option of not developing the land. The area is gorgeous, and the business park is ugly enough as is. It'd make for a great extension of the Birch Cove wilderness area.

[Keith P.]

It would be a shame if it was only an underpass connecting to Main Ave., with no access to/from the 102.

[Dmajackson]

It would be a shame if it was only an underpass connecting to Main Ave., with no access to/from the 102.

I read somewheres they wanted to construct an interchange there but the province said no because of the proximity of Lacewood and 103 Interchanges.

[miesh111]

By Main Ave. they must mean Regency Park drive right? Cause Main Ave. ends at Mount Royale and turns into Regency Park Drive. The connection from up by Halifax West High School and into Mount Roayle would need to be built for this to be done though.

[Jonovision]

A somewhat scary article from todays Herald.

Bayers Lake expansion in the works


By JEFFREY SIMPSON

Staff Reporter

The Bayers Lake Business Park is about to bulk up.

Halifax Regional Municipality is preparing to sell all or part of an 81-hectare swath of wooded and rocky land behind the Kent Build ing Supplies store for a multimil lion- dollar development.

John MacPherson, a real estate officer with the municipality, said Friday that the city is look ing for engineering firms to study potential uses for the land. A re quest for proposals closes Wednesday and MacPherson ex pects the work to take eight to 10 weeks.

Then the land will be put up for sale to bidders who come forward with development plans.

“It would be your typical com mercial- style development with the opportunity to do large-for mat retail," MacPherson said in an interview.

“It could also be small-format retail, it could be office space."

Plazacorp Retail Properties Ltd. of New Brunswick had an agree ment with the municipality a cou ple of years ago to buy 36 hectares of the land and build a large retail development but withdrew its of fer as the recession struck, Mac Pherson said. A price hadn’t been agreed upon.

No officials from Plazacorp could be reached for comment Friday.

Michael Wile, the municipal ity’s business parks manager, said any sale agreement would re sult in specific requirements in keeping with the development plan for the area, including the construction of a third entrance to Bayers Lake, from Northwest Arm Drive. That’s expected to ease traffic woes in the area and offset any increase in traffic caused by the expansion, he said. The 81 hectares probably won’t be sold in one chunk, Wile said.

“We’ll probably be selling bits and pieces as the market demand and supply calls for," he said.

“We’d want to make sure if someone’s buying the land, they have all intentions of construct­ing within a given amount of time — as opposed to just buying the land and sitting on it for years."

Wile expects there to be signif icant interest among developers. Several have been inquiring about it for years, he said.

“The economy is doing quite well now, so I guess we think we would have some takers," he said. “We don’t really see that as a problem right now."

The municipality’s business parks have weathered the eco nomic downturn of the last cou ple of years quite well, Wile said.

One big appeal of Bayers Lake to developers is the dense residen tial population of the surround ing area, he said.

It’s too early to know what price the land will sell for because ser vices such as streets and side walks will be part of any proposal and taken into consideration when reaching a deal.

Wile said it will be about a year before any construction starts.

And he doesn’t expect that ex panding the business park will have an adverse effect on down­town Halifax.

“I don’t think it’s an either-or proposition," he said.

But Coun. Dawn Sloane (Hali fax Downtown) said she’s not im pressed by the plan to expand the sprawling business park.

“I’m against that," she said.

“Every time you put a big-box store in, something happens in the downtown — another mom­and- pop shop dies."

Sloane said she would prefer development to be concentrated in the downtown so better servic es such as public transit could be offered and the city centre would be a livelier place.

“Your downtown is supposed to be your hub," she said.

“The more we sprawl, the more it costs us all."

(jsimpson@herald.ca)





I'm with Sloane on this one.

[fenwick16]

I agree that more development downtown (Halifax and Dartmouth) is better for the HRM. However, opposition to tall buildings in downtown Halifax goes against this concept. This opposition by special interest groups and people in council is one factor driving business to the suburbs.

In addition to more residential development downtown, Halifax needs a good rapid transit system whereby people can park their cars outside of the downtown core and be downtown in 5 - 10 minutes. This will eliminate the parking hassles.

A good example of what can be done by eliminating parking downtown and increasing rapid transit - see below (the section on Copenhagen): source - http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/programs/environment-utsp-casestudy-cs76eparkingtdm-891.htm . Quote from below - Even though pedestrian traffic levels have remained largely unchanged since the 1960s, by the late 1990s activities connected with shopping and staying in the downtown area had increased four-fold.

“Pedestrianizing” town centres

Many North American transportation activists envy the car-free town squares of major European cities. Some, however, weren't always the pedestrian havens they are today.

Two examples - Copenhagen, Denmark, and Ghent, Belgium - offer lessons in removing and reducing parking in favour of active and sustainable modes of transportation.

Until the early 1960s, Copenhagen's downtown streets were often clogged with cars and town squares were used as car parks. By removing parking entirely, Copenhagen has created several pedestrian-only areas. First, the city limited the number of parking spaces and restricted through traffic, and then began charging high fees for on-street parking. It also put many of the major routes into the city on “road diets” to reduce the number of car lanes in favour of bus or bicycle lanes.

Even though pedestrian traffic levels have remained largely unchanged since the 1960s, by the late 1990s activities connected with shopping and staying in the downtown area had increased four-fold.

City planners say that the key to Copenhagen's success was the gradual way these changes were made, allowing residents and businesses time to adapt.

[-Harlington-]

im all for developing bayers lake but id rather it just stay the size it is and get better that way,
downtown has enough problems with mic mac, dartmouth crossing, the shopping centre and bayers lake already
the empty store fronts on barrington and other areas is just getting worse.
and i though that area was a protected area, im not sure what parts are protected but ive been there a few times and its a nice place to go, seems like your not even near a city.

[Dmajackson]

im all for developing bayers lake but id rather it just stay the size it is and get better that way,
downtown has enough problems with mic mac, dartmouth crossing, the shopping centre and bayers lake already
the empty store fronts on barrington and other areas is just getting worse.
and i though that area was a protected area, im not sure what parts are protected but ive been there a few times and its a nice place to go, seems like your not even near a city.

Here's (http://www.gov.ns.ca/nse/protectedareas/docs/wa_BlueMountainBirchCove.Map.pdf) a map of the currently protatected area. So the area being developed will probably back right onto the protected area in behind Kent.

[-Harlington-]

it wouldn't seem to protected to me if its being backed up on by development.
i don't know but i always thought that behind Kent is an odd place to develop anyway since everything there would seem hidden and would need roads.
that protected area doesn't seem to well thought out either since it has like a few blobs in places and extends in odd places like Kearney lake. and the birch cove lake itself which the name comes from is hardly protected.

[Keith P.]

I fail to see how Sloane can be against this and also against most proposed development downtown, then somehow claim to be in favor of growing the economy.

[Novalea]

I'd like to see how much space is available within the existing bounds of Bayers Lake; my first thought is that there is still serviceable land available. HRM should look to infill the existing space before expansion is considered. I do agree with Ms. Sloan in that the expansion of B/L and Dart. Xing hurt the downtown, not just Halifax, but Dartmouth and Bedford, too. And it's so unsustainable to expand suburban commercial property that can only be accessed by car and inadequate transit.

The lands designated for the Wilderness Area was based on available crown land which had been cut up over the years, especially in the southern portion.

[someone123]

It's fine to say that retail should be downtown and that there should be good transit service and so on but that's not what the HRM has and it's not likely to happen anytime soon. It's in fact much worse because there is so much obstructionism downtown.

I also don't think that suburban retail areas need to be as terrible as Bayers Lake is. Part of the problem with Bayers Lake is its awful design. It could have been mixed-use with much better access for everything - cars, transit, pedestrians, and cyclists.

[ScovaNotian]

I'm with Dawn on this one. The area is beautiful and should be preserved along with the adjacent Crown lands. And even if it were to be developed at some point, selling it off now seems like a short-sighted attempt to fix the budget. Developing the lands in the same cheap fashion as Bayers Lake is a waste of space that the city would come to regret in the future.

[Haliguy]

I fail to see how Sloane can be against this and also against most proposed development downtown, then somehow claim to be in favor of growing the economy.

Its because she lacks the understanding in how the economy and the world works.

[sdm]

I'm with Dawn on this one as well. The area is beautiful and should be preserved along with the adjacent Crown Lands. And even if it were to be developed at some point, selling it off now seems like a short-sighted attempt to fix the budget. Developing the lands in the same cheap fashion as Bayers Lake is a waste of space that the city would come to regret in the future.

check the history, the lands were developed for industrial use and then costco went in and the shift to retail took form. It was never intended for the use it is today.

[ScovaNotian]

check the history, the lands were developed for industrial use and then costco went in and the shift to retail took form. It was never intended for the use it is today.
I don't think BLIP was the only instance where HRM was wrong in its expectations with regard to business/industrial parks it has built. Ragged Lake is another example. From what MacPherson says in the article they don't even care anymore.

[halifaxboyns]

The expansion of Bayers Lake should probably actually go ahead as a long range thing. I say that because I'm a realist and eventually downtown Halifax and Dartmouth will run out of places to redevelop, so office development should go somewhere.

I'm sorta on side with Sloane on this one from the perspective of - I've believed that some of the big box retail could've been coxed into coming to downtown, if there were more residential dwelling units there. Staples was the first on the corner of Gottingen and Cogswell and I thought what a great way to liven up Gottingen Street - since these could serve teh downtown residents. It never happened, but could some day down the road especially if this new low income development has a significant size commercial floor plate (say 2 or 3 floors).

Big box retail is a difficult thing because if a city doesn't have a good population balance, it will work as a negative to the downtown. In the case of Halifax, more people need to be in downtown to help support downtown businesses, otherwise the core is usually dead on weekends except for special events (much like Calgary is).

As I sit here in my condo in downtown Calgary (watching it snow - yes, please have a good laugh because it was thunder snowing earlier and it will rain by nightfall - reminds me of NS weather!) there is hardly any activity in the core at all.

In a long range goal - when the next regional plan comes up for work - I think it would be in HRM's best interest to think of how office development should occur in HRM. Right now, with all the traffic problems getting onto the peninsula, concentrating class A office space in the Core (both HFx and Dartmouth) isn't working. Once it's built out; the office clusters should move out into the burbs, but in areas adjacent to major transit facilities (so Mill Cove, or 'downtown' Bedford or Burnside. If a better transit network could be established for Bayers Lake; then yes go ahead.

One other comment I'd make is that there seems to be a movement in some american cities to have commercial business parks becoming mixed use, with the big box retail at grade (say up to 3 stories) and then residential units above. It might be an interesting opportunity for a test case in Halifax and see how it would work out.

[someone123]

It's very strange because on the one hand we see lip service paid to the downtown but on the other we've had 30+ years of subsidies for business parks. The former City of Halifax was falling over itself to build Bayers Lake and it still pays for roads in Burnside.

Lots of companies move to these places because they are cheap but they're not the most attractive locations - I've seen a few cases of companies looking for space on the peninsula and then giving up after not finding anything suitable.

[MonctonRad]

It's fine to say that retail should be downtown and that there should be good transit service and so on but that's not what the HRM has and it's not likely to happen anytime soon. It's in fact much worse because there is so much obstructionism downtown.

I also don't think that suburban retail areas need to be as terrible as Bayers Lake is. Part of the problem with Bayers Lake is its awful design. It could have been mixed-use with much better access for everything - cars, transit, pedestrians, and cyclists.

Most big box stores belong in suburban business parks. They would be out of place in a dense downtown city core. The core should concentrate on restaurants, pubs, specialty retailers, neighbourhood services (grocery stores, pharmacies etc.) and commercial service providers (like Staples).

My main objection to Bayer's Lake is the absolute lack of planning that went into this development. It wasn't even supposed to be a retail development in the first place and then just grew like topsy to become the monster that it currently is today.

Despite this, I am not against expanding Bayer's Lake. This might in fact be an opportunity to correct some of the past wrongs of this development - I'm thinking particularly of traffic access and traffic flow here. Also, most of the stores that usually set up in a place like Bayer's Lake wouldn't seriously think about locating downtown in the first place. An expansion to Bayer's Lake would be more of a threat to Dartmouth Crossing than to downtown.

[halifaxboyns]

Most big box stores belong in suburban business parks. They would be out of place in a dense downtown city core. The core should concentrate on restaurants, pubs, specialty retailers, neighbourhood services (grocery stores, pharmacies etc.) and commercial service providers (like Staples).

My main objection to Bayer's Lake is the absolute lack of planning that went into this development. It wasn't even supposed to be a retail development in the first place and then just grew like topsy to become the monster that it currently is today.

I would've agreed with you until I visited Vancouver and saw what they had done with Cambie street around the Olympic Village and Broadway/City Hall stops of the Canada line. In an urbanized downtown setting - they had big box retail, stacked on top of each other with residential above. The same is true for Toronto on Younge Street - they have big box retail right in the heart of downtown and when I visited the stores in both cities, they were busy! Now I qualify that with the fact that Toronto and Vancouver downtowns have a significantly higher population than the core of HRM - but I really believe that allowing them on Gottingen Street would be a way to help bolster that area with good planning (such as a large public parkade to replace individual parking areas).

As to the planning of Bayer's lake - that is where I agree with you. The access points are horrible and the driveway and intersection configurations are just not well thoughtout at all. I remember when living in Halifax one particular Christmas holiday when the police were called out and closed the park to new traffic because the traffic that was already in the park was just at a standstill. There was no parking available! I couldn't believe it - that too me said it all. Plus added to that, no sidewalks.

If I could re-plan the whole area there would be such huge changes, but I don't have a billion $ :)

[someone123]

Cambie Street in Vancouver has a Whole Foods, Home Depot, Canadian Tire, Save on Foods, and Best Buy. By the Stadium SkyTrain station there is an urban format Costco under an overpass that works quite well. Vancouver has a large downtown Sears, The Bay, Holt Renfrew, Chapters, and Future Shop (there's also one of these on Broadway near Cambie).

I don't think there's any particular reason why Halifax couldn't have some of these things other than a lack of storefront or development space and concerns over competitiveness with suburbs due to different tax rates and subsidies.

Simply adding a big electronics store (Future Shop or Best Buy), book store (Chapters or Indigo), and hardware store (Home Depot, Kent, Pierceys) downtown would greatly improve the range of retail and would make it less necessary for people living on the peninsula to go out to Bayers Lake.

[MonctonRad]

Smaller large format stores such as Chapter's/Indigo or Future Shop/Best Buy could work very well in the central peninsula. When I said that big box stores belonged in suburban business parks, I was thinking more of Home Depot, Costco and such.

[halifaxboyns]

Thanks someone - I knew I missed a whole bunch of other examples. In Toronto's case, I think it was a Future Shop on top of a whole bunch of smaller commercial retail units (CRUs) and then HMV next door (you can see it reall well using google street view).

Google Streetview Link (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=10+Dundas+Street+East,+TOronto&sll=43.65595,-79.903564&sspn=1.08695,3.153076&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=10+Dundas+St+E,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario&ll=43.656602,-79.381027&spn=0.003835,0.024633&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.656607,-79.381026&panoid=mJ-JmX6s23Uo6yOoofWZ8g&cbp=11,39.12,,0,-10.05)

Hope that works. But it would be interesting if the commercial floor plates for say the roy building and these new developments on Gottingen Street were adapable to allow something like these modified formats of these big box retails. Plus, I'd say if Vancouver could have a home depot in this type of format; why can't Halifax?

[someone123]

There's a Future Shop in downtown Toronto as well as a Best Buy I think (Dundas, in the bottom of a Ryerson building). I think there's also going to be an urban format Home Depot.

In Europe there are a couple of examples of urban format IKEAs. Imagine how convenient something like that would be for apartment dwellers on the peninsula.

Even having something like a Home Depot in the city isn't a big deal, you just build it over two floors and put parking on the roof or underground. There's room for something like that on Queen Street.

[-Harlington-]

i think that big box could work downtown as someone123 said with more than one floor ect.
take the shoppers for example which isnt really big box but is a good example as well as sportchek i think on spring garden.
i was in dartmouth crossing the other day and was just amazed at the amount of successful stores and shops that they had that downtown didnt.

[hfx_chris]

Definitely things like a Chapters/Indigo or a Future Shop/Best Buy would work downtown, but I would hate to see a Wal-Mart on Barrington :haha:

Some sort of hardware store too possibly. It Home Depot or Kent wanted to setup some sort of "urban" shop, obviously without the lumber or building supplies, that might work. I wonder if having Zellers back might be a good idea too. Wouldn't mind seeing Sears or The Bay setup shop either. Again, obviously not as big as say the Zellers at Mic Mac, or Sears at HSC - but something a little smaller.

A downtown Sobeys would also be interesting.

[halifaxboyns]

Here in Calgary on the Stephen Avenue Mall (which is pedestrian during the day and auto at night), we have a big box Winners and a Sport Check. The winners went in quite nicely; the sport check stands out a bit more.

I think the tavern site would be a got spot for an urban sobeys, or even a full format sobeys/superstore - if the floor plate is right. Parking might be an issue, but if enough units go in; it could do well. I know the urban sobeys in Edmonton on Jasper and 104 has no parking and it does really well (especially when the summer farmers market is open on 104th on Saturdays).

[someone123]

The Home Depot here has things that people would buy when renovating urban properties like condos. They don't have building supplies like wood, although maybe you can order them from a suburban location.

There are the Superstore and Sobeys locations that are more or less downtown in Halifax but totally suburban-style developments. I'm not really sure if there's a spot that would be worth it for Sobeys since the population of the downtown core is so small. Few people live right around the central part of Barrington and farther south people are close enough to Queen Street.

Really the key to having lots of good retail downtown is just to have high population densities. Having a Sobeys on Barrington would be a no-brainer if there were 10,000 people who could walk there in 10 minutes or so.

[joeyedm]

an urban sobeys would work so well downtown. im surprised there isnt one already on the peninsula. i used to frequent the one in downtown edmonton on my way to from work when i lived there. its a great concept.

[-Harlington-]

an urban sobeys or superstore is a good idea, becuse the closest ones i think are the sobeys on queen st, and windsor and north, and the superstore on barington.
if anyone wants to live downtown shouldnt they have perks like places to shop for food without over spending.

[Keith P.]

Pete's Frootique is in the center of downtown.

[-Harlington-]

Pete's Frootique is in the center of downtown.

i find a lot of thier stuff is pretty pricey but i guess if your living downtown anyway you should be able to afford it.
there still is things like meat, pasta, ceral bread, correct me if petes has these thing.

[Wishblade]

i find a lot of thier stuff is pretty pricey but i guess if your living downtown anyway you should be able to afford it.
there still is things like meat, pasta, ceral bread, correct me if petes has these thing.

Pete's does have all that, but just many of the items are more exotic or things you wouldn't find elsewhere. I also find there's a more cultural selection at pete's as opposed to sobey's or superstore. It is definately taylored to the downtown clientele.

[halifaxboyns]

Pete's does have all that, but just many of the items are more exotic or things you wouldn't find elsewhere. I also find there's a more cultural selection at pete's as opposed to sobey's or superstore. It is definately taylored to the downtown clientele.

An article I found on the Sobeys Urban Fresh in Downtown Edmonton (in case some haven't seen what's it - since it's been discussed).
http://www.onlyhereforthefood.ca/2008/05/27/revisiting-sobeys-urban-fresh/

[-Harlington-]

:previous: :previous: :previous: :previous:

i think that would be really cool in halifax, the look of it would fit on spring garden but petes is already there, i think somewhere near the water would be cool and with the cafe feature it would add to the area maybe put a tim hortons in there, aha

[alps]

Kinda sad that small supermarkets are now being packaged as a new concept..

I'm living near two Sobeys and a Metro store in Toronto, none of which have parking...Pete's is really the only thing comparable in Halifax, and I think it's great they opened there.

anywho, aside from the stupidity of expanding a business park that has already proven itself deadly to the downtown, I'm against it because it'll destroy a very cool trail over the exposed bedrock out there. :(

[beyeas]

:previous: :previous: :previous: :previous:

i think that would be really cool in halifax, the look of it would fit on spring garden but petes is already there, i think somewhere near the water would be cool and with the cafe feature it would add to the area maybe put a tim hortons in there, aha

I actually think that the north end would be a great place for this. (I am thinking like the area around St Josephs/Hydrostone). Pete's is great, but is really tailored to high end. This sort of concept of Sobey's strikes me as one that would work really well in the sort of rejuvinated and beginning to be hip area around the Hydrostone. You've got a lot of younger people/families there, the area is growing, and it is attracting people who like the idea of a "livable" neighbourhood.

[-Harlington-]

i think the north end of gottigen before it turns into novela is a good spot and it would fit the area well
or maybe closer to downtown where the new developments on gottigen are going.
either way halifax is in need of fresh ideas like this.

[reddog794]

As much as this style of development turns my stomach, this is a city dealing with a $30 million short-fall. Gotta hustle some fast cash before they have to start trimming services instead of council :rolleyes:.

...now if the city decriminalized Marijuana, then the new tourist dollars would negate the need!

Looking at some of the comments on big box in the city, the Roy building would be ideal for two of these styles of commercial, just with out the parking. Shoot the NFB building! Even the At-Can self storage.

I hate that building, not so much the tower, but it irks me when I look at it. It is one of the less attractive buildings in our DT, I would even rank it just below the waffle iron, and above the Scotia Square towers.

[Dmajackson]

New hotel coming to Bayers Lake

The Canadiana Restaurant and Lounge in the Bayers Lake Business Park is expanding to include a new Comfort Hotel and Suites.

Work on the four-storey complex is underway, and should be complete by early February, says restaurant owner, and new hotel franchisee, Peter Giannoulis.

Giannoulis said the 80-room hotel will include a swimming pool, meeting rooms and a lounge. The Canadiana Restaurant, which itself has undergone an exterior facelift, will serve as the restaurant for hotel patrons.

Market research, Giannoulis said, has concluded there’s plenty of opportunities still for new hotel development in the Halifax-metro area.

While Giannoulis expects to attract mainly business clientele to his Lakelands Boulevard hotel, its location near 100-series highways and Peggy’s Cove would be ideal for tourists, too.

“So, we’ll see,” he said.

The Canadiana Restaurant, which offers all-day breakfast, serves family-cooked meals, he said.

“We do most of the cooking in the restaurant, and we don’t buy institutional-type items,” he said.

The restaurant currently employs between 18 and 25 full and part-time employees.

Giannoulis expects to hire about 15 new employees for the hotel initially.

“It will depend on business,” he said.

Last week, the province’s tourism department said Nova Scotia welcomed 1,142,400 visitors in the first seven months of the year, up three per cent compared with the same time last year.

Tourism is an important contributor to Nova Scotia's economy. In 2008, the industry employed more than 31,000 people and generated revenues of $1.82 billion.

kmoar@hfxnews.ca

[-Harlington-]

ive past by this many times and figured it was a hotel but didnt know the whole story, and im pretty sure they are working on the fourth floor now
you can also see this from long lake in spryfield surprisingly

[Dmajackson]

An extension onto the Bowring strip mall building;

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5071889841_93fa7a73b1_z.jpg

[Dmajackson]

SSP Dmajackson 01's Photo Page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53383761@N07/5140461784/)

Comfort Hotel & Suites - October 30th, 2010

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1385/5140461784_b9934848e4_z.jpg

[q12]

....................

[Dmajackson]

An extension onto the Bowring strip mall building;

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5071889841_93fa7a73b1_z.jpg

According to a blog I was reading earlier this extension is to become home of a new "The Gap" outlet store.

[Dmajackson]

Comfort Inn & Suites today;

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5196211100_bdbe1d5770_z.jpg

[Keith P.]

That is the back; they appear to be using some sort of masonry cladding on the front.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Is that copper roofing?

[Dmajackson]

Comfort Inn & Suites on Lakeland Blvd - December 19th, 2010 (photos by me);

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/5275720336_262fa04f8a_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5127/5275114745_705e5f6126_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5247/5275724756_1c56540ca9_z.jpg

[kph06]

There is an area of the Armco/Johnson Insurance office building at the corner of Chain Lake Drive and Lakelands Boulevard. The sign for the original building now has a large sticker saying "Now Leasing Tower II".

[worldlyhaligonian]

lol, "Tower" 2.

[DigitalNinja]

That office building that is up right now is one of the nicer ones in Halifax...

[beyeas]

lol, "Tower" 2.

depressing what passes for a tower in Halifax isn't it. :duh

[halifaxboyns]

depressing what passes for a tower in Halifax isn't it. :duh

Personally, I wouldn't want suburban office parks to get too big, because the transportation network and transit system isn't very good.

Here in Calgary, the benefit of the LRT is that many suburban employment centres have sprouted up around existing or proposed LRT stations and are being built awaiting construction (one in particular in the SE is awaiting the SE line; which is 20 years away).

When I look at trying to re-focus investment back into the core to strengthen it; I would want to cap most of the suburban office buildings to 5, 7 stories max. If you start letting them get much bigger, you end up hurting the core because cheaper class B and A office space becomes available in the suburbs, where you can have a sea of free parking. Why would you want to be in the core, when you could be in the burbs and park for free?

This is why I've been looking at (as a personal interest) places that are looking at limiting suburban employment centre growth and restricting parking as a step to push people back into the core. So far I'm not finding a lot of positive information. :)

[beyeas]

Oh I am not arguing for buildings in BLIP to be taller... merely commenting on the use of the term "tower". I suppose that relative to HT's not wanting buildings to be more that a couple of stories tall, a 7 story building is a massive tower though! :-)

[worldlyhaligonian]

Oh I am not arguing for buildings in BLIP to be taller... merely commenting on the use of the term "tower". I suppose that relative to HT's not wanting buildings to be more that a couple of stories tall, a 7 story building is a massive tower though! :-)

Exactly... IMO towers start at 12 stories.

[Keith P.]

There is construction underway near the parking lot for the Johnson Insurance "tower" and Halifax Chrysler Dodge... but it doesn't look big enough to be "Tower II". It is near the street -- I am guessing it is a fast food place of some sort.

[dlandry]

I drove by this construction today.... it's certainly not tower 2 :) It has a side window that looks like a take-out window. There's also a wooden structure that looks like an order sign. Sounds like a fast food joint.

[dlandry]

Just found this:
http://armcocapital.com/files/BayersLakeTower_Site.pdf

Looks like it could be a Starbucks.

[sdm]

Just found this:
http://armcocapital.com/files/BayersLakeTower_Site.pdf

Looks like it could be a Starbucks.

Yes, its starbucks

[Dmajackson]

Comfort Inn & Suites and the supposed Starbucks (photos by me);

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5294/5417408508_9c47f170f9_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5176/5417405538_6797f8d6b4_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5291/5417409692_f9d5aa0875_z.jpg

[q12]

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/886/img2011022700355.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/img2011022700355.jpg/) (photo by me)

Linens-N-Things old store next to Homesense is finally being renovated for something new presumably. Pure speculation but maybe a Best Buy, Golf Town, Jysk or Bed Bath & Beyond?

Also another addition going on the opposite side of the the plaza where the Gap Factory Outlet is opening. Rumor that it is a kids clothing store possibly Carter's which is suppose to go in Dartmouth Crossing aswell.

[HRM]

It's a Best Buy.

[q12]

It's a Best Buy.

Thanks, just googled and found this.

http://www.recruitingsite.com/CSBSites/bestbuycareers/JobDescription.asp?JobNumber=640323&src=JB-10880

Looks like it should be open in spring/summer.

[Dmajackson]

Tidbits from the Burnside News:

• Although Starbucks technically already has a location in Bayers Lake – an outlet inside Chapters – it's first stand-alone location will soon be joining it. Construction is underway out front of Armco’s Bayers Lake Tower 1 and should be ready for customers in time for warmer weather.

• Speaking of Armco’s Tower 1, it will soon be joined by the second phase of the development. Pre-leasing on Tower 2 is now underway and the company says it hopes to have a couple of tenants for the project signed up in the next few weeks. If leasing interest is sufficient, work on the project could get underway in 2012.

[Jstaleness]

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/886/img2011022700355.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/img2011022700355.jpg/) (photo by me)

Linens-N-Things old store next to Homesense is finally being renovated for something new presumably. Pure speculation but maybe a Best Buy, Golf Town, Jysk or Bed Bath & Beyond?

Also another addition going on the opposite side of the the plaza where the Gap Factory Outlet is opening. Rumor that it is a kids clothing store possibly Carter's which is suppose to go in Dartmouth Crossing aswell.

It looks like the same front as the bed bath and beyond rather than a best buy.

[q12]

It looks like the same front as the bed bath and beyond rather than a best buy.

Thats the old Linens-N-Things front. It's getting demolished.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Halifax,+Nova+Scotia+B3M+4T7&ll=44.64701,-63.672745&spn=0,0.027874&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.647138,-63.672614&panoid=Wrjxu1kG8-LuRAPJVFfwqw&cbp=12,121.66,,0,3.13

[Jstaleness]

Haha, for some reason I thought that was a new piece being added. It's Monday. I'll be alright

[Dmajackson]

From the weekend;

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5255/5548693991_061de5c496_z.jpg

[cormiermax]

:yuck::yuck::yuck:

[worldlyhaligonian]

Its pretty rough. I hope that roof will at least Patina.

[q12]

Bayers Lake project moves forward

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1237093.html

Thu, Apr 7 - 4:54 AM

A land transaction between Halifax Regional Municipality and a local developer planning a Bayers Lake Business Park project is a step closer to being finalized.

Regional council this week voted to move the plan forward after meeting in secret to go over the proposed Banc Developments project.

The company is hoping to develop about 80.9 hectares in the big-box store zone outside Halifax.

Council’s blessing was rubber-stamped at a public council meeting Tuesday, although a recent confidential staff report on the property matter won’t be released until the real estate deal closes.

Terms of the agreement will remain secret until that happens.

Deputy mayor Jim Smith (Albro Lake-Harbourview) and Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) voted against moving the Banc plan forward.

The motion to advance the land deal was put forward by Coun. Mary Wile (Clayton Park West).

The municipality put the Bayers Lake land up for sale in a public tender last summer.

[q12]

Bayers Lake plan huge, says developer
$250-million project would almost double retail space

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1237365.html

By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Fri, Apr 8 - 6:53 AM

A planned commercial development worth upward of $250 million will almost double the retail capacity of Bayers Lake Business Park, says the president of Banc Developments Ltd.

"We hope to blast rock before winter," Besim Halef said in an interview Thursday.

Halifax regional council voted this week to move ahead with the sale of 80.9 hectares of land in the business park to Banc after a secret meeting was held to consider the developer’s plan.

"We expect to close the land transaction in the fall," Halef said.

A staff report on the property sale and terms of the agreement won’t be released until the deal closes.

Halef said the planned development will be built on lands behind the Kent Building Supplies outlet on Chain Lake Drive.

The multi-phase development will include two big-box stores and a number of smaller outlets that will add about one million square feet of retail space to the park, Halef said.

The first phase of the development will take about five years to complete and the whole project will take about 10 years, he said.

"We need to put in roads and services. That will take time."

Banc has developed a conceptual geographic layout plan for the project and will work through the spring and summer to develop a final design plan and get required approvals, Halef said.

"It could change."

The entire project will include as many as 150 tenants.

The company president wouldn’t disclose who those tenants may be, but he said he hoped to bring in some higher-end retailers.

Halef didn’t know why deputy mayor Jim Smith (Albro Lake-Harbourview) and Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) voted against the motion by Coun. Mary Wile (Clayton Park West) to move the land sale forward.

"I have no clue," Halef said. "I’d like to know myself."

The municipality stands to gain a great deal of tax revenue from the Bayers Lake development, he said.

"To me, economically, the city is better off."

Smith said he voted against the motion to voice his displeasure with the way Banc cleared land for a residential development off Trinity Avenue in Dartmouth.

"It’s just the principle," he said in an interview Thursday.

Smith said he had no doubt council would move the Bayers Lake property matter forward, despite his vote.

The municipality put the Bayers Lake land up for sale in a public tender last summer.

Banc’s only other holding in the business park is a building on Horseshoe Lake Drive that houses the provincial Access Nova Scotia office.

The building formerly housed a furniture store.

Wow, Bayers Lake double in size.:omg:

[fenwick16]

I wonder how much retail the HRM can support without creating additional jobs outside of retail. It would be good to see more manufacturing at the Bayer's Lake Business Park. (Is industrial space allowed at the Bayer's Lake Business Park?)

[-Harlington-]

double bayers lake behind kents ?
oh lord,no thank you

[Jstaleness]

I'm trying to think of what other big box stores there are in Canada that Halifax could support. That's a lot of space. Lowes comes to mind. I also heard that Radcliffe Canadian Tire was going to move. Maybe Canadian Tire will be one of them. Maybe a giant Target store if they wanted to supercenter one out there. The current Zellers is pretty small.

[Jonovision]

Quoted from the article:

Halef didn’t know why deputy mayor Jim Smith (Albro Lake-Harbourview) and Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) voted against the motion by Coun.

Mary Wile (Clayton Park West) to move the land sale forward.

“I have no clue," Halef said.

“I’d like to know myself."


This is funny. I can think of many many good reasons to vote against this.

[MonctonRad]

Traffic is horrible out at Bayers Lake now, I can't imagine what it would be like if the retail area doubled in size! :yuck:

They had better improve access off the 102 pretty damn quick! :yes:

[DigitalNinja]

Just what we need...

[q12]

I wonder how much retail the HRM can support without creating additional jobs outside of retail. It would be good to see more manufacturing at the Bayer's Lake Business Park. (Is industrial space allowed at the Bayer's Lake Business Park?)

Industrial space is allowed in certain areas I think. Volvo had a plant there before and used the old train tracks (which is now a paved walking/biking path) I believe.

I'm trying to think of what other big box stores there are in Canada that Halifax could support. That's a lot of space. Lowes comes to mind. I also heard that Radcliffe Canadian Tire was going to move. Maybe Canadian Tire will be one of them. Maybe a giant Target store if they wanted to supercenter one out there. The current Zellers is pretty small.

I heard Wal-mart will be moving into a bigger location so that it can become a Super-Center like the Dartmouth Crossing and Bedford Commons Wal-marts can.

[q12]

Here is some more detail on the expansion.

http://www.burnsidenews.com/News/2011-04-07/article-2410053/Bayers-Lake-Business-Park-growing-to-meet-demand/1

Bayers Lake Business Park growing to meet demand

http://www.burnsidenews.com/media/photos/unis/photo_613674_resize.jpg
The new development planned for Bayers Lake by BANC Developments Limited will take place on the land located in the bottom right hand corner of this aerial photo.

Published on April 7, 2011
Staff ~ The Burnside News

Bayers Lake

A land transaction approved by Regional Council this week will see close to 200 acres of new lands developed in the Bayers Lake Business Park.
Topics : Regional Council , Bayers Lake Land Development Opportunity , BANC Developments , Bayers Lake
A land transaction approved by Regional Council this week will see close to 200 acres of new lands developed in the Bayers Lake Business Park.
The Bayers Lake Land Development Opportunity was publically advertised in late 2010 with the objective of selecting a proponent prepared to undertake the purchase and timely development of the site including the provision of all public streets and services at the developer’s expense.
On Tuesday April 5, Council approved the award of the project to BANC Developments Limited for approximately 180-190 acres of land. BANC’s proposal will see the lands developed over a series of phases for retail and commercial uses. The price paid by BANC cannot be disclosed until the deal closes.
“This project will generate significant economic benefits in the form of retail sector growth, construction, employment and commercial property taxes,” says Mayor Peter Kelly.
HRM’s Business Parks are major employment centres serving the municipality and the region. As the economy continues to grow, and the municipality’s commercial base expands, the pressures on business parks such as Bayers Lake to accommodate the demand for large serviced parcels and a range of business uses increases.
“The new infrastructure and growth was identified by the public and the Bayers Lake Business Association as a critical piece to improving the existing traffic capacity issues in the park and along Lacewood Drive,” Kelly says.

[DigitalNinja]

At least the company is paying for the roads. Is HRM selling the land to Blanc?

[-Harlington-]

I cant see how only two people can vote against this but a bunch of people vote against certain other projects that we could have here

[Keith P.]

Traffic is horrible out at Bayers Lake now, I can't imagine what it would be like if the retail area doubled in size! :yuck:

They had better improve access off the 102 pretty damn quick! :yes:


Why, we'll just put in some roundabouts! That's the ticket!! Yessir, roundabouts will solve all your traffic ills!!!

[someone123]

At least the company is paying for the roads. Is HRM selling the land to Blanc?

Long-term maintenance and service improvements are also killer and will likely be at the HRM's expense. This sprawl will be a huge liability in 20 or 30 years.

[DigitalNinja]

They really should have added at least an off ramp on the new connector they just did. Would have made going into bayers lake from the highway easier.

[sdm]

Quoted from the article:

Halef didn’t know why deputy mayor Jim Smith (Albro Lake-Harbourview) and Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) voted against the motion by Coun.

Mary Wile (Clayton Park West) to move the land sale forward.

“I have no clue," Halef said.

“I’d like to know myself."


This is funny. I can think of many many good reasons to vote against this.

agree.

Council should be paying attention to the downtown which is dying a now rapid death......

[sdm]

At least the company is paying for the roads. Is HRM selling the land to Blanc?

HRM will then need to deal with the costly improvements needed to get the traffic out of the under designed ingress egress points in the park.

[q12]

They really should have added at least an off ramp on the new connector they just did. Would have made going into bayers lake from the highway easier.

I believe there is plans for on ramps but no off ramps. This is good news since it is actually harder to get out of Bayers Lake than in from the Bi-Hi.

[icetea93]

I can't even think of anymore big box type stores that we don't have other than Ikea, and we all know the situation there. Just more random tech stores (Future Shop, Best Buy) and other stores that we already have multiples of yayyyyyyy...

I just hope the open some more new chain restaurants like Milestone's or something.

BTW, does anyone know when the new Baton Rouge restaurant downtown is supposed to open?

[DigitalNinja]

Soon, they have a sign up and are doing construction on the place. It looks like it will be a nice location :D

[icetea93]

Soon, they have a sign up and are doing construction on the place. It looks like it will be a nice location :D

Great! I'm really excited about that restaurant!

[Grav]

Kinda sad that small supermarkets are now being packaged as a new concept..

I'm living near two Sobeys and a Metro store in Toronto, none of which have parking...Pete's is really the only thing comparable in Halifax, and I think it's great they opened there.

anywho, aside from the stupidity of expanding a business park that has already proven itself deadly to the downtown, I'm against it because it'll destroy a very cool trail over the exposed bedrock out there. :(Thats exactly how I feel. I love those bedrock barrens. Its a pretty popular biking spot too. There are always cars parked at the entrance by Burger King. Im going to have to get out there soon for a last minute run around.

[alps]

On that note, the Herald published my letter today :)

Re: "Bayers Lake plan huge, says developer" (April 8). Developer Besim Halef says he has "no clue" as to why Jim Smith and Dawn Sloane would vote against a motion to move the sale of land forward that would "almost double" the size of Bayers Lake industrial park. While I can’t speak for them, I can certainly come up with reasons why this is a move backwards, especially at a time when other cities are focusing on managing growth responsibly rather than perpetuating grossly inefficient land-use patterns such as the "power centres" that now ring Halifax, Dartmouth and Bedford.

The tax revenues from such a plan may seem tempting now, but in the long term, the cost of maintaining the vast amount of infrastructure required to service a development this sprawling will become a huge financial liability — not to mention the cost of new road construction to alleviate congestion that will only worsen. The traffic chaos of any Saturday afternoon in Bayers Lake is indicative of what comes from a design that requires shoppers to drive from store to store. It does not allow for easy pedestrian access or efficient public transit. Groups that do not drive, like many seniors, are marginalized.

Throwing up 80 more hectares of big-box low-density urban sprawl while existing neighbourhoods languish is unsustainable economically, socially, and environmentally.

I can think of many more downsides of course, but only so many can fit under the 200 word limit.

[fenwick16]

On that note, the Herald published my letter today :)

I can think of many more downsides of course, but only so many can fit under the 200 word limit.

I hadn't given this too much thought before but I have to agree with your letter. Good work on expressing your viewpoint Ben. - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Letters/1238100.html

PS: I think that area would be good for heavy industrial and manufacturing. With the Halifax south terminal being so close, I think that it would be ideal by logistic services also.

[q12]

Quick update:

The Gap Factory Store has it's signs up, and should be open in a few weeks. Also the new store under construction on the other end of that strip is apparently kids clothing store Carter's OshKosh.

The new Starbucks at the other end of the park looks like it should be open soon too.

Best Buy is coming along nicely as well.

[halifaxboyns]

I was right by the Gap factory store and the new starbucks today. Was very excited to see you guys getting one!

[q12]

The first GAP Factory Store east of Ontario opened today. :tup: