Next on the list: Bayers Road widening project

[sdm]

Next on the list: Bayers Road
Kelly: ‘We will do things differently’
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Mon. Dec 1 - 5:13 AM


The city is considering another road-widening project, says Mayor Peter Kelly.

But solving Bayers Road traffic congestion will hopefully not come at the same price that homeowners paid during the city’s recent mishandling of the Chebucto Road widening, he said.

Residents learned about the Chebucto Road project in west-end Halifax when they received generic letters indicating a portion of each of their front lawns would be expropriated.

When the project got underway, police were brought in while several trees were cut down just after dawn.

"We regret that it didn’t go as well as we would have liked it to be, but going forward, we will do things differently," Mr. Kelly said in an interview Sunday.

The city is reviewing its handling of the Chebucto Road widening to find better ways to deal with future projects, he said.

"We need to have lessons learned from this one, which we did. And we certainly have learned to engage (the public) at the very onset, and work (public input) all the way through, and not just try to work it as issues come forward."

The mayor said there’s no timeline for fixing congestion at Bayers Road, which routinely ties up traffic between Oxford Street and the on-ramp to the Bicentennial Highway.

"I do know that it’s an issue that needs to be dealt with . . . and that staff are looking into it."

Mr. Kelly has come up with his own suggestion to try to improve traffic flow without resorting to the expropriation of front lawns.

"My approach has been, if at all possible, not to widen."

He has also asked staff to investigate possible alternatives.

Mr. Kelly said he would like to see what could be achieved by designating the middle lane of Bayers Road for buses only. Then, the street’s centre lane can become a reversing corridor so that buses have an extra route into the city during the morning rush hour and an extra one outbound in the afternoon.

"Let’s not stay with the status quo when we’re looking at these kinds of challenges," Mr. Kelly said.

"Let’s think a bit outside the box in how we can create some unique opportunities for some unique situations."

That way, he said, the intrusion on residential neighbourhoods will be minimized. Bayers Road congestion was raised at council in April.

At that time, the municipality was looking at the Bayers Road widening project as the second item on a list of five priorities Metro Transit would like to see done in the next five years.

Staff suggested widening the road to accommodate a bus-only lane because congestion there was delaying buses by as much as 15 minutes in rush-hour traffic.

Homeowners were told years ago that the city was considering the project. But nothing new has been said, a homeowner on the street said in a recent interview.

At an unrelated public meeting earlier this year, a Bayers Road homeowner said truck and car traffic on his street is so bad that it shakes the walls in his home.

"In the morning, the mirrors and pictures are all crooked," the resident told a meeting at the nearby St. Andrew’s Centre.

Mr. Kelly is not sure when the congestion issue on Bayers Road will return to council.

"When the time comes for us to deal with (staff’s) strategy, this will all be part of (the) discussion."

In the meantime, there have been some lasting bad feelings over the Chebucto Road project.

Some residents along the artery that leads to the Armdale Rotary remain unhappy, he said.

( apugsley@herald.ca)

[spaustin]

If they're putting in a bus only lane as Kelly is musing, I won't find this one nearly so objectionable.

[someone123]

I thought the bus lane was simply part of the plan, not a mere possibility, but then Kelly never seems to talk in certain terms about anything.

Having a middle lane devoted to buses is also a little weird when they have to pull over to the curb to stop.

This is another case where widening makes a lot of sense, and given nearby development it's pretty clear this was planned for a long time ago.. probably the 1950s, so nobody can say this came from nowhere. With the bus lane this is a good project for the city.

[Dmajackson]

I like this idea a lot. Buses there do slow down to a crawl.

BTW there is already a thread on this somewheres in this section.

[Keith P.]

But aren't they talking about the block from Connaught to Oxford? I expect plenty of screaming if that is so. Those houses were thrown up around the time of WWII without a whole lot of thought and are close to the curb, unlike the blocks from Connaught to Romans. Having said that, the Connaught to Oxford section is really a bottleneck and does impede all traffic. It is a logical spot to want to improve.

[Dmajackson]

^That block might be part of it but I do know that the proposed lane was brought up with 6955 Bayers Road. Their site plane even had the bus lane and layaway drawn in.

[hfx_chris]

I don't see how it would by physically possible to widen it much along there, as kp said the houses are so close to the sidewalks, there isn't much land to expropriate.
However, they could help alleviate a lot of their problems if they just banned on-street parking, and actually enforced it.

[Keith P.]

Here's a thought for us to ponder:

There is a rail line right of way that CN has or is about to abandon that runs from the 103 end of Bayers Lake to Joe Howe parallel to the 102. It then makes a left and runs alongside Joe Howe before hooking up to the main rail lines at the Bedford overpass/Windsor St exchange area.

I believe HRM had been offered this r.o.w. by CN a year or two back and turned it down.

What if you took land at either Bayers Lake or Exhibition Park and constructed a large park and ride facility, and offered an express transit option from there? If you wanted to be ambitious you could do rail using existing lines as far as pier 9 and new lines alongside Barrington to the downtown. But you wouldn't have to do rail. You could reconfig the r.o.w. into a dedicated bus route pretty easily and connect it to Bayers Rd., and with the widening of Bayers include dedicated bus lanes. Hell, you could even elevate it along the Connaught-Windsor stretch if you really wanted to.

Imagine if you did this, how much traffic you would remove.

[Dmajackson]

Here's a thought for us to ponder:

There is a rail line right of way that CN has or is about to abandon that runs from the 103 end of Bayers Lake to Joe Howe parallel to the 102. It then makes a left and runs alongside Joe Howe before hooking up to the main rail lines at the Bedford overpass/Windsor St exchange area.

I believe HRM had been offered this r.o.w. by CN a year or two back and turned it down.

I don't think they turned it down.

The last I heard, and according to multiple plans and maps of the area, they were going to turn it into a trail since it connects with the BLT trail in Lakeside.

What if you took land at either Bayers Lake or Exhibition Park and constructed a large park and ride facility, and offered an express transit option from there? If you wanted to be ambitious you could do rail using existing lines as far as pier 9 and new lines alongside Barrington to the downtown. But you wouldn't have to do rail. You could reconfig the r.o.w. into a dedicated bus route pretty easily and connect it to Bayers Rd., and with the widening of Bayers include dedicated bus lanes. Hell, you could even elevate it along the Connaught-Windsor stretch if you really wanted to.

Imagine if you did this, how much traffic you would remove.

First thing first, they should make Bayers Road a no-parking area (the section between Windsor and Connaught is the worst for this).

Then the R.O.W. should be converted into a bus lane possibly with enough space to include a trail. Where it meets Joe Howe an intersection should be constructed and Joe Howe should be widened to include bus lanes on both sides. The remaining space should be converted into a sidewalk possibly with bicycle lanes.

Bayers Road of course should have dedicated bus lanes. But one thing that should be included is stoplights at Bayers Road and Desmond Ave with transit priority sensors.

Your plan sounds good though :)

[Dmajackson]

There is an older thread on this widening from April. Looking through the posts (and my massive rants on it) it turns out spaustin had the same idea Peter Kelly had;

I'm not terribly familiar with this part of town (only ever through there to get somewhere else now and then) but it has been my thought for a quite a while that the city should make use of reversing lanes on wide streets to accommodate bus only routes. Installing a reversing bus only lane would save having to widen the street and avoid political and legal battles like Chebucto Road. Rush hour is almost always just one direction in this city anyway and will be for a long time to come so lets turn that to our advantage. The bus would be a heck of a lot more attractive if it could cruise down Quinpool, Bayers, Robie and say Portland past all the grid lock. To me it would be a great way to use what has already been built much more efficiently. It would probably be real cheap to do to compared to the alternatives.

On the other thread I agreed with him and I still do right now. It would be easy to install most of the way and be cheaper than double-lanes. The only problem is getting to the bus stops. If the lane were in the centre the conventional buses would have to flow with the rush-hour traffic. And there are no express buses on this road.

[pnightingale]

Here's a thought for us to ponder:

There is a rail line right of way that CN has or is about to abandon that runs from the 103 end of Bayers Lake to Joe Howe parallel to the 102. It then makes a left and runs alongside Joe Howe before hooking up to the main rail lines at the Bedford overpass/Windsor St exchange area.

I believe HRM had been offered this r.o.w. by CN a year or two back and turned it down.

What if you took land at either Bayers Lake or Exhibition Park and constructed a large park and ride facility, and offered an express transit option from there? If you wanted to be ambitious you could do rail using existing lines as far as pier 9 and new lines alongside Barrington to the downtown. But you wouldn't have to do rail. You could reconfig the r.o.w. into a dedicated bus route pretty easily and connect it to Bayers Rd., and with the widening of Bayers include dedicated bus lanes. Hell, you could even elevate it along the Connaught-Windsor stretch if you really wanted to.

Imagine if you did this, how much traffic you would remove.

The option of running a commuter rail line there has been looked at in the past and was not deemed viable due to the speed limit on the tracks being very low in some sections, and I think it was determined it would take way longer for a train to reach downtown than if you were to drive. I think this city could definitely benefit from some sort of LRT but I don't think it's in the cards for quite some time unfortunately.

[Spitfire75]

Bayers Road widening plan surprises city councillor (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1103151.html)

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Wed. Jan 28 - 5:50 AM
A proposal to widen Bayers Road to as many as six lanes, removing homes in the process, caught a new councillor off guard Tuesday.

"I was quite taken aback by some of the (drawings) that I saw," Coun. Jennifer Watts (Connaught-Quinpool) told her council colleagues at their weekly meeting Tuesday night after she saw a preview of the road widening project in a private meeting with Dave McCusker, the city’s manager of strategic transportation planning.

She wanted to make the plans available to affected residents before a public consultation meeting is held Feb. 11 at the St. Andrews Centre on Bayers Road.

But Mr. McCusker said there is only a draft plan, not a draft report, to be made available to the public, and that will be done at the public meeting.
The province declined to distribute the plan beforehand, he said, but the city will ask again for permission.

Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said "many residents are extremely upset" about the proposal.

That’s because back in 1995, some of them were told at a meeting at Westmount School that Bayers Road "would not be touched" between Connaught Avenue and Oxford Street.

"There are residents on both sides of the street who do not want to lose their homes . . . for another roadway downtown," he said.

Mr. Blumenthal promised to join Ms. Watts to challenge the project, which would affect both of their districts.

"We’ll fight this with everything we have," he said.

The city and province are teaming up on the project, currently in the study phase, to expand the major thoroughfare to five or six lanes from the Highway 102 off-ramp to Connaught Avenue and to four lanes from Connaught to Windsor Street.

Ms. Watts was concerned that residents wouldn’t be able to air their views and ask questions if the city held a "world cafe"-style open house next month. She made a motion, which council approved unanimously, to change the meeting’s format to a presentation followed by a question-and-answer session.

Coun. Steve Streatch (Eastern Shore-Musquodoboit Valley) said he attended an open house on tax reform "and those were a disaster in my mind," he said.

"You walked around like you were there for a Sunday dinner or something."
But Coun. Bob Harvey (Lower Sackville) said opening the floor to questions sometimes permits a few people to dominate.

"You end up with more heat than light, and perhaps it’s not that productive in terms of understanding the information and the issues," he said.

Because it’s a study to determine the physical needs of the street and not a done deal, public consultation is key, Mr. McCusker said.

"It helps to guide what goes into the study . . . to gauge the interest or acceptance of the plans that are shown," he said.

Modifications could be made after that, Mr. McCusker said.

"Council still has approvals to make on what gets done," he said.

But Ms. Watts said the city’s communications strategy flopped during planning of last year’s controversial intersection-widening project on Chebucto Road and she wants to ensure that as many people as possible are aware of the Feb. 11 meeting.

Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) agreed, saying the city needs to be a lot more transparent, and faster to communicate with residents, when it is thinking of widening streets.

"I was there when they took down the first trees on Chebucto Road and it was disgusting," she said.

(apugsley@herald.ca)


I know it's just a draft, but 6 lanes? Come on...

[sdm]

I know it's just a draft, but 6 lanes? Come on...

That would only mean 1 lane on each side, for a total of six.

People need to understand that this is nothing new, it was planned decades ago. Why do you think all the houses have huge front and backyards?

[Jonovision]

I know it's nothing new. But these expansions were originally planned back in the days when cars were on the rise. And people thought all developments and cities should cater to the car. Things have changed. And I hate too see more road construction.

[Dmajackson]

Well I'm not really surprised.

Don't forget if they are just two extra lanes it could just be bus/HOV lanes.

And someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Connaught-Windsor already four lanes wide?

[sdm]

I know it's nothing new. But these expansions were originally planned back in the days when cars were on the rise. And people thought all developments and cities should cater to the car. Things have changed. And I hate too see more road construction.

Well if the city allowed people to develop the core more then we might not have this problem. For over a solid decade now we have been building like crazy in burbs, yet the place of work is still in the core. If anything urban spawl has caused this to be a bigger issue then it originally was.

Again my opinon.

[Jonovision]

Well if the city allowed people to develop the core more then we might not have this problem. For over a solid decade now we have been building like crazy in burbs, yet the place of work is still in the core. If anything urban spawl has caused this to be a bigger issue then it originally was.

Again my opinon.

And I completely agree.

[someone123]

The other factor to consider is that, even if most growth happened in the core, there would still be a gradual need to handle increasing amounts of traffic, and not all of it can be handled by transit.

The big difference between this and a 50s or 60s style project is that this isn't calling for tons of demolition to reshape parts of the city (for cars). If these projects are carried out gradually in an efficient way along with transit development I don't have a problem with them.

[Keith P.]

Just watching Blumenthal on TV right now blathering on in an attempt to position himself as some kind of savior by opposing this. He is a sanctimonious opportunist and cannot be trusted. Anyone with half a brain could see that Bayers Road needs to have SOMETHING done to it, especially the stretch from Connaught to Windsor. To stick ones head in the sand and suggest that a road that has not changed since the late 1950s is still adequate is simply absurd.

The resistance of many people in this town to acknowledging that we are no longer a sleepy backwater of 80,000 people is simply astounding.

[spaustin]

If this is another build more space for cars project I won't be able to support it. If they're adding bus lanes, well then I could be convinced.

[hfx_chris]

Anyone with half a brain could see that Bayers Road needs to have SOMETHING done to it, especially the stretch from Connaught to Windsor.
Remove on-street parking. Make the third lane reversible.

Done. And no expropriation required.

[Keith P.]

Remove on-street parking. Make the third lane reversible.

Done. And no expropriation required.

A half-measure that will still generate the same level of hysteria and abuse from the enviro-crazies as did the innocuous changes to Chebucto. So if you are going to endure that anyway, you might as well do it right.

[spaustin]

A half-measure that will still generate the same level of hysteria and abuse from the enviro-crazies as did the innocuous changes to Chebucto. So if you are going to endure that anyway, you might as well do it right.

That's hardly fair considering the opening proposal on Chebucto was to destroy two or three homes! It was only after encountering fierce resistence that the city backed off and rethought things. I like Chris idea.

[Keith P.]

That's hardly fair considering the opening proposal on Chebucto was to destroy two or three homes! It was only after encountering fierce resistence that the city backed off and rethought things. I like Chris idea.

The hysteria we saw last summer was all about what was eventually constructed. Nothing changed as a result of the crazies.

[sdm]

Remove on-street parking. Make the third lane reversible.

Done. And no expropriation required.


That is already implemented on quinpool and Bayers. The third lane wont work IMO.

remember there is what, 5 entry points to the core (bridge(s), bedford highway, St marg's, bayers) and this location is being fed from a 100 series highway. Where are all the people going to go when they do the new over pass near bedford south area?

The problem is the City has allowed mass density outside the core, and now things are worse then imagined because of such.

[Dmajackson]

That is already implemented on quinpool and Bayers. The third lane wont work IMO.

It could work but IMO they should add in the extra lane but make it a reversing bus lane.

remember there is what, 5 entry points to the core (bridge(s), bedford highway, St marg's, bayers) and this location is being fed from a 100 series highway. Where are all the people going to go when they do the new over pass near bedford south area?

The problem is the City has allowed mass density outside the core, and now things are worse then imagined because of such.

Yes there's five ways and 22 lanes into the city if I remember correctly.

One thing I know for sure is between the new interchange, the burnside expressway and the new 101 interchange the traffic will shift to different roads;

-Most of Bedford South/West will funnel onto the 102,

-Sackville will take the MacKay Bridge via Burnside Drive,

-Upper Sackville will shift onto the 101 and then split some with some going down the 102 and some heading through the Bypass,

-Long distance commuters off of the 102 will probably switch to Burnside since there will be a direct connection to the road,

-And Bedford will split into four. Rocky Lake will take Burnside, Dartmouth Road will continue to take Magazine Hill, Some neighbourhoods off of the Bfd Highway will continue to take that road, and anything south of Hammonds Plains will take the 102.

With all theses changes I don't think anybody can safely guess what the traffic levels will actually be in five years time. The only thing I can suggest is to work from the outside in. So build the nessecay things out here in suburbia then as the demands grow upgrade the infastructure in town to fit the new layout.

[Takeo]

Nothing changed as a result of the crazies.

Is it necessary to be so insulting? Insults don't really add to the discussion.

[miesh111]

Insults don't really add to the discussion.

But they make it so much more entertaining. :whip:

[Keith P.]

Is it necessary to be so insulting? Insults don't really add to the discussion.

I would submit to you that it is an accurate description of those who would choose to be interviewed while sitting in the canopy of a tree or who tried to evade arrest by hiding in the shrubbery.

[hfx_chris]

A half-measure that will still generate the same level of hysteria and abuse from the enviro-crazies as did the innocuous changes to Chebucto. So if you are going to endure that anyway, you might as well do it right.
Would it? They wouldn't have to propose to tear down houses, they wouldn't have to uproot any trees and they wouldn't be doing any significant changes to the street or neighboring yards, so I don't understand how environmentally conscious people would be up in arms about that. Care to explain your logic a little better?

I would submit to you that it is an accurate description of those who would choose to be interviewed while sitting in the canopy of a tree or who tried to evade arrest by hiding in the shrubbery.
No no no. I assume when you say "enviro crazies" you are referring to people who are concerned for the environment. Those people who were sitting in the trees are the same pack of arseholes who show up at every protest event held in the city. They are not enviro crazies, they are professional protesters whose only goal is to be a nuisance and get on TV so they can scream "police brutality" at every event they can. DO NOT assume that those people represent the majority of people genuinely opposed to the Chebucto Road project. They do not. They do not represent my views or values, and I take great offense at being lumped in with them (and labeled an "enviro crazy"). I recall during the tree cutting residents on Chebucto and other people against the project distancing themselves as much as possible from those professional protesters. They did not represent their interests either.


As to the comment about the insults, it's what Keith does when he meets somebody who shares a different viewpoint from his own. He does the same for NDP'ers as well. Most normal people don't insult people who have different beliefs or values from themselves, but he does. I really hope he doesn't do this in real life.

[Keith P.]

Would it? They wouldn't have to propose to tear down houses, they wouldn't have to uproot any trees and they wouldn't be doing any significant changes to the street or neighboring yards, so I don't understand how environmentally conscious people would be up in arms about that. Care to explain your logic a little better?

Those opposing ANY road improvements on the peninsula like this one always trot out the environment as the reason not to do it. Draw your own conclusions.

No no no. I assume when you say "enviro crazies" you are referring to people who are concerned for the environment.

No, I am referring to people who are irrationally obsessed with the environment by opposing every new road project by making those kind of arguments.

Those people who were sitting in the trees are the same pack of arseholes who show up at every protest event held in the city. They are not enviro crazies, they are professional protesters whose only goal is to be a nuisance and get on TV so they can scream "police brutality" at every event they can. DO NOT assume that those people represent the majority of people genuinely opposed to the Chebucto Road project. They do not. They do not represent my views or values, and I take great offense at being lumped in with them (and labeled an "enviro crazy"). I recall during the tree cutting residents on Chebucto and other people against the project distancing themselves as much as possible from those professional protesters. They did not represent their interests either.

I do not recall any interview or news article where the ringleaders of the Chebucto opposition distanced themselves from the circus.

As to the comment about the insults, it's what Keith does when he meets somebody who shares a different viewpoint from his own. He does the same for NDP'ers as well. Most normal people don't insult people who have different beliefs or values from themselves, but he does. I really hope he doesn't do this in real life.

Don't worry about me. I say what a lot of people would like to say but are afraid to say because it isn't deemed polite, in line with the conventional wisdom, or politically correct.

[hfx_chris]

Those opposing ANY road improvements on the peninsula like this one always trot out the environment as the reason not to do it. Draw your own conclusions.I find your emphasis on the word 'any' humorous. I doubt you'll find too much opposition to banning parking on a street, except from those who park there. At the very least, you'll get no opposition from me.

I do not recall any interview or news article where the ringleaders of the Chebucto opposition distanced themselves from the circus. I do. I also find your choice of words (ringleaders) odd in describing the people whose front yards were going to be shortened, or in some cases faced possible eviction and demolition of their homes. Were they not allowed to oppose this project? Was that a faux pas on their part? When the city comes to you and says 'we're going to expropriate part of your front yard' are you supposed to smile and nod and say yes sir, or risk being called a ringleader?

Don't worry about me. I say what a lot of people would like to say but are afraid to say because it isn't deemed polite, in line with the conventional wisdom, or politically correct.Oh I don't. Just wanted to make sure you're aware it makes you look like a total ass.

[Keith P.]

Chris, I don't worry about what I look like. If I were you though I might not feel the same way given the way you come across here. You seem to have a problem with me. Why I do not know. You seem to not like my views. That's fine because I don't like your preposterous, sanctimonious ones either. All I can tell you is that I have three words for you: go to hell.

[hfx_chris]

You seem to have a problem with me. Why I do not know. You seem to not like my views.
True I don't like some of your views, but others I do appreciate. What I have a problem with is your attitude you use when expressing your views, you love hurling insults at anyone who shares a different viewpoint. That part I don't appreciate, but you don't care, so why am I arguing this point...

[Jonovision]

....anyway.....back to Bayers Road.
This was in the paper today and sums up my viewpoints on the subject quite well.


Wider roads, more traffic

ROGER TAYLOR
Sat. Jan 31 - 5:50 AM


OF ALL the infrastructure projects proposed recently by readers of this column, not one included widening Halifax’s Bayers Road as being a good use of taxpayers’ dollars.

Many of those who wrote in with ideas of how the government should use capital spending to help stimulate the economy came up with ideas like creating a commuter rail system or improving the existing transit system. It’s doubtful too many people would have thought about expanding Bayers Road to make it easier for car and truck traffic to get onto peninsular Halifax — except perhaps the city’s car-centric traffic authority.

The public found out about the plan earlier this week after it was revealed at a city council meeting by councillors for the affected districts. City staff is recommending that Bayers Road be as wide as six lanes in sections, which would mean the removal of some homes deemed to be in the way.

It reminds me of one of Premier Rodney MacDonald’s favourite infrastructure projects, the paving of the railway cut through south-end Halifax to allow 18-wheelers carrying containers to come and go from the Halterm container terminal.

The goal is to eliminate the steady stream of heavy truck traffic travelling through busy downtown Halifax, but it means redirecting the truck traffic through a heavily residential section of the city. To me it sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.

In the case of the Bayers Road widening project, city staff has indicated some flexibility. It has been reported that the road expansion could be used to accommodate not just cars but bus lanes, commuter lanes reserved for vehicles with more than one passenger or even toll lanes.

Most people are shaking their heads about this because it seems like the people governing Halifax don’t have a clear vision for the city.

On one hand the city council has adopted its HRM by Design plan, which aims to encourage greater population density by making the downtown a more liveable area where people will do most of their commuting on foot.

Meanwhile, another department within city government seems bent on making it easier for cars to come into the city core.

Last summer, for instance, the municipal government decided to create an extra lane on Chebucto Road by cutting down several beautiful old trees, tearing up residents’ lawns and disrupting the lives of many who live along the busy thoroughfare.

Now, despite the difficult experience during the Chebucto Road widening, the city still seems to be eager to follow its policy of making it easier for auto traffic in the city.

People have been talking about the Bayers Road widening idea and they’ve been telling me they’re not opposed to creating bus lanes in an effort to improve the local transit service, but few believe the road widening is in the best long-term interests of the city.

Based on the tremendous response by readers who wanted to pass along their infrastructure ideas, I know that most people want government investment in infrastructure to be, above all, a thoughtful plan.

It is widely recognized, by the public at least, that improvements are needed to Halifax’s mass transit system. Expanding roads to allow even more people to drive their cars downtown seems to work against that goal.

This issue is greater than just determining whether it’s a good idea to widen a road; it demonstrates there isn’t one cohesive plan for Halifax.

How is Halifax to move forward without a strong vision of what is in the best interest of the city?

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

[Dmajackson]

Well like a lot of people I don't want to see another road widened but I will support the project if it meets one condition. The new lane(s) must be designated as either bus only lanes or as HOV lanes.

One thing the city should really consider is trying to get people to use Connaught instead of the narrower roads like Bayers and Younge. Connaught was designed to handle heavy traffic loads at a relatively fast speed. The narrow section of Bayers was NOT.

[hfx_chris]

Connaught never totally made sense to me. It's a big wide roadway that allows relatively faster speeds, but where does it take you? Nowhere. It dumps you off on Chebucto or Quinpool, and you're back to traffic jams.

[Dmajackson]

PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSIONS


The Nova Scotia Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal (NSTIR) and Halifax Regional Municipality (HRM) are exploring the future best use of the Bayers Road / Highway 102 Corridor from Windsor Street, Halifax to Fall River. The study includes traffic projections and functional designs that could be implemented in stages over a 30-year period. The location of the proposed Highway 107 from Akerley Blvd in Burnside to Highway 102 near Duke Street (Exit 4C) has also been updated and evaluated. The study was conducted by Stantec Consulting on behalf of NSTIR and HRM. Two public information sessions will be held to present the findings of the study and the functional design of the roadways and interchanges:

(1) Wednesday, February 11, 2009 at the St. Andrew’s Centre, 6955 Bayer’s Road, Halifax, from 6pm to 9pm with a presentation at 6:30pm.


(2) Thursday, February 12, 2009 at the LeBrun Community Centre, 36 Holland Avenue, Bedford from 6pm to 9pm with a presentation at 6:30pm.


NSTIR, HRM and Consultant staff will be in attendance at the public information session to discuss the study and answer questions. If you have questions regarding the upcoming sessions, please contact Bernadette Landry, P. Eng at 434-7331 or by e-mail.

[sdm]

Street widening proposal slammed
150 people at public meeting told that 80 properties on Bayers Road would be affected
By JEFFREY SIMPSON Staff Reporter
Thu. Feb 12 - 6:03 AM


Bayers Road and Oxford Street during the morning rush hour. (Eric Wynne / Staff)





A plan to add several lanes of traffic into Halifax over the next three decades will mean shaving off sections of about 80 properties lining the route.

About 150 people — many of them owners of those affected homes and businesses — attended the proposal’s public unveiling at a meeting Wednesday night where they universally panned the widening of Bayers Road.

The province and municipality are working together on the project which aims to deal with expected growth in the Bedford area over the next 30 years by increasing traffic capacity on Highway 102 all the way to Fall River.

"There will be a lot of traffic generation from those areas," Dave McCusker of Halifax’s transportation department said in an interview.

"And that naturally goes to the Highway 102 and Bayers Road corridor."

The people who attended the information session heard little in the way of specific answers to their questions about the conceptual study by Stantec Consulting, the first of several phases to take place over the next 27 years. The plan involves widening Bayers Road to six lanes between Highway 102 and Connaught Avenue and expanding it to four lanes the rest of the way to Windsor Street.

"It would mean some acquisition of property to be able to do that," Mr. McCusker said. "It’s in the vicinity of 80 properties."

Ian Epstein owns a house on Bayers Road that he fears will now plummet in value immediately and be difficult to sell.

"It’s insane," Mr. Epstein said. "Would you want to live on Bayers Road now? It’s potentially devastating."

Mr. Epstein and his wife, Erin Awalt, said the road-widening plan isn’t worth whatever it will cost because the traffic moves a little slower for only an hour at the end of a typical work day before it returns to normal.

"Everyone who lives in the area sees it’s not even necessary," Mr. Epstein said. "We chose to live in the city and they’re ripping our community apart."

Peter Rogers, who recently moved from the Bayers Road area, was also critical of widening roads and the effect it would have on local neighbourhoods.

"I thought we were going to build sustainable, walkable, livable communities in Halifax," he said. "We have choices here."

The scenario was all-too familiar for Carolyn King, who spoke about the effect a similar, though smaller scale plan had on her Chebucto Road neighbourhood last year when the city also took portions of several properties.

"It’s like a nightmare revisited," she said. "I don’t get this."

Laena Garrison of the Ecology Action Centre said she was sceptical of the projected need for widening roads over such a vast period of time.

"We would rather see that money invested in transit, in carpooling, in better biking," she said. "They’re speaking a language that a lot of people don’t understand."

Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax-North End) said the plan continued a trend of turning peninsular Halifax into a thoroughfare between the suburbs and downtown.

"It’s ridiculous," he said. "That’s why we’ve got to build density downtown."

Halifax would be better off spending the money to improve public transit and deterring people from driving their cars to work.

"We’ve got to do something to stop it," he said of the plan.

A second public information session will be held today at 6 p.m. at the LeBrun Centre in Bedford.

( jsimpson@herald.ca)

‘We chose to live in the city and they’re ripping our community apart.’

IAN EPSTEINBayers Road resident

[Dmajackson]

Well I am torn on this project. I can see why the city/province wants to widen it but I also don't want more lanes into the city.

The only thing I can say for certain is the meeting tonight will go-over better because they will be talking to the suburban commuters who might use the road.

[Takeo]

No doubt about it... this is far more radical than the Chebucto Rd. widening. Apples and Oranges. Doesn't even compare. You have to sympathize with the homeowners. They make the choice to live on the Peninsula while others choose to live in shiny new McMansions in Bedford... and who pays the price? Their homes and yards are being destroyed so that people who live 20KM away can cut 10 mins. off their commute.

[sdm]

No doubt about it... this is far more radical than the Chebucto Rd. widening. Apples and Oranges. Doesn't even compare. You have to sympathize with the homeowners. They make the choice to live on the Peninsula while others choose to live in shiny new McMansions in Bedford... and who pays the price? Their homes and yards are being destroyed so that people who live 20KM away can cut 10 mins. off their commute.

That's a pretty stereotypical response takeo; not all people live in McMansions. I know a number of people who use that route and they certainly don't live in mansions.

Besides, and i stress it again, this is nothing new. Why do you think all the houses as you come down off the bi high are so set back with huge lawns which the city is responsible to mow and clear each year?

[Takeo]

That's a pretty stereotypical response takeo; not all people live in McMansions.

I know. Just being dramatic. I know a lot of people in and near Bedford too. But my point remains... waiting 3-4 lights to get through an intersection on your way to and from work is part of the price you pay for choosing to live in a suburban area and drive to work. Not that they have many options other than driving. But it's the price you pay. The residences of Bayer's Road should not have to pay the price.

[Dmajackson]

Well I'll admit I live in a "McMansion" in Bedford but I can say from experience that most of the cars on Bayers are not what wealthy people usually drive. A lot of the cars that use the road come from the poorer parts of the region (Fairview, Sackville, ect).

Personally I say don't widen it right now. Wait a couple of years when the MetroX and HarbourLink are in service and see if the amount of cars have reduced at all.

[hfx_chris]

Besides, and i stress it again, this is nothing new. Why do you think all the houses as you come down off the bi high are so set back with huge lawns which the city is responsible to mow and clear each year?

People love to bring up that section of the road, and yes you are correct that section of Bayers can be widened without issue. But have you forgotten about the section from Connaught to Windsor!? That section was NOT built the same.
I maintain if they just removed on-street parking and actually enforced it, things would flow a lot better.


And when did this turn into a class issue? C'mon now, lets not turn this into a rich vs. poor, Sackville vs. Bedford issue.

[Takeo]

Well I'll admit I live in a "McMansion" in Bedford but I can say from experience that most of the cars on Bayers are not what wealthy people usually drive.

I take that back. I was being a little over-the-top. I just think that if you decide to live off the peninsula for whatever reason (one reason might be that you could get more home for the money... understandable)... then you accept the fact that you'll have to deal with traffic. And to be honest... I don't even think the traffic situation is that bad. Anyway, it just doesn't seem right. I know we have to move cars too... but really... the transit system here is horrible. If there was a good alternative... cheaper... faster... easier... people would take it. But instead we just make roads bigger so they fill up faster and you still end up with a bottleneck anyway... just in a different location.

[Dmajackson]

I take that back. I was being a little over-the-top. I just think that if you decide to live off the peninsula for whatever reason (one reason might be that you could get more home for the money... understandable)... then you accept the fact that you'll have to deal with traffic. And to be honest... I don't even think the traffic situation is that bad. Anyway, it just doesn't seem right. I know we have to move cars too... but really... the transit system here is horrible. If there was a good alternative... cheaper... faster... easier... people would take it. But instead we just make roads bigger so they fill up faster and you still end up with a bottleneck anyway... just in a different location.

And I agree with you there. I was just pointing out the fact many of the cars aren't from Bedford because the road is so unaccessable from here. Now in a couple of years when the new interchange is open this could be a completely different story.

IMO one thing that could really increase transit use in the suburbs is to increase the frequency on the 80 and 82 and to provide newer buses that have bike racks on them.

[Keith P.]

I bought a house a few years ago. I wanted to stay on the peninsula if I could. Several of the houses that were offered to me that were in my price range were on Bayers Road. I refused to even consider them because of the traffic then and in the future. This was entirely foreseeable. I have zero sympathy for anyone who chose to live there.

[Wishblade]

I bought a house a few years ago. I wanted to stay on the peninsula if I could. Several of the houses that were offered to me that were in my price range were on Bayers Road. I refused to even consider them because of the traffic then and in the future. This was entirely foreseeable. I have zero sympathy for anyone who chose to live there.

I agree, there's no way they didn't forsee this. They chose to live there, so they should just deal with it.

[spaustin]

And people off the Peninsula surely must have forseen that living there and choosing to work Downtown meant they would encounter a little traffic during their daily commute. As Chris said, put in a reversing lane and eliminate on street parking. Problem solved.

[Keith P.]

And people off the Peninsula surely must have forseen that living there and choosing to work Downtown meant they would encounter a little traffic during their daily commute. As Chris said, put in a reversing lane and eliminate on street parking. Problem solved.

If it was a LITTLE traffic, perhaps. The problem is, it is not. Besides, that is a very specious argument. There are lots of places one could choose to live. Relatively few of them do not involve a commute somewhere. The logic of your argument would be to suggest that nobody should support any road improvement. That is simply foolish.

[Barrington south]

anyone who doesn't have any sympathy or empathy for the home owners in this situation needs to seriously reassess where there values are at...not all people would "foresee"these changes...consider an elderly person or say a young family...yes they where aware of the traffic volumes, but if you think they should have "foreseen" these changes, then I think you need to get of your high horse, mingle with regular folk, and find out just how much thought they put into urban planning...I find it quiet sad that certain people are "blaming the victim"....ie Keith P

[Barrington south]

They chose to live there, so they should just deal with it.

That's exactly what they are doing...dealing with it...by fighting it...what, you thought they would roll over and die like a little B****....perhaps some people on this thread are not property owners, but let me assure you, when you are, you tend to become a tad bit protective of your HOME

[worldlyhaligonian]

People love to bring up that section of the road, and yes you are correct that section of Bayers can be widened without issue. But have you forgotten about the section from Connaught to Windsor!? That section was NOT built the same.


Its not all of Connaught to Windosr, just between Connaught and Oxford... such a small area of concern. Between Oxford and Windsor their is plenty of room to widen the road.

And Barrington South, WTF? Property ownership is an investment like anything... I wouldn't buy stock from a company that could be potentially impacted by changes in the regulatory environment of their industry. If you buy a house on ANY major street you should be prepared to deal with issues like traffic, noise, expropriation, etc. That is why houses are worth less on major streets.

I can't feel sorry for people that make bad investments in choosing the house they own. Property ownership isn't some kind of surefire investment.

I guess I'm just sick of everybody wanting a goddamn bailout because of their own choices.

[Keith P.]

anyone who doesn't have any sympathy or empathy for the home owners in this situation needs to seriously reassess where there values are at...not all people would "foresee"these changes...consider an elderly person or say a young family...yes they where aware of the traffic volumes, but if you think they should have "foreseen" these changes, then I think you need to get of your high horse, mingle with regular folk, and find out just how much thought they put into urban planning...I find it quiet sad that certain people are "blaming the victim"....ie Keith P

Oh, give me a break. You wouldn't buy a house in a slummy neighborhood without realizing it. How is this any different? If they were that clueless then frankly I have no sympathy for them. For god's sake, you are buying a house on the friggin' 102 highway for all intents and purposes!

The only potential sympathy I have is for someone who bought there 50+ years ago, and I suspect that is a damn small number of folks.

[terrynorthend]

I guess i'm just not sure where all these cars are going to go, even with the widening. There is still a Windsor St bottleneck, that stretch of Young (to Robie) is stressed with traffic as is, and Robie is not much better during peak. If there was a masterplan to develop the wastelands in that windsor st, kempt road, DND area, then I'd have to much different take on it. That would BE the destination, not just another bottleneck further up the road.

[Dmajackson]

I guess i'm just not sure where all these cars are going to go, even with the widening. There is still a Windsor St bottleneck, that stretch of Young (to Robie) is stressed with traffic as is, and Robie is not much better during peak. If there was a masterplan to develop the wastelands in that windsor st, kempt road, DND area, then I'd have to much different take on it. That would BE the destination, not just another bottleneck further up the road.

Thats one of my problems with the widening as well.

If we widen the road it will just create a worse bottleneck further in town because the additional cars will not have anywheres to go.

If the road was leading to somewheres with an exit out of town I would understand widening it but Bayers Road will only dump more traffic onto Robie and Windsor, both of which are already congested.

[Wishblade]

That's exactly what they are doing...dealing with it...by fighting it...what, you thought they would roll over and die like a little B****....perhaps some people on this thread are not property owners, but let me assure you, when you are, you tend to become a tad bit protective of your HOME

Actually I am a homeowner, now I dont live on a street as busy as bayers road, but I assure you if it were, and they were proposing to widen the street, I wouldn't mind it.

[Wishblade]

dp

[Dmajackson]

I found this article from the Metro today pretty well written. Even Councillor Outhit (Bedford) agrees that reversing lanes should be considered.

Bedford’s gain from Bayers Road pain
JENNIFER TAPLIN, METRO HALIFAX
February 13, 2009 12:04

Many people in Bedford want a better route to work, but feel bad for the Halifax homeowners who are going to pay for it.

The city and province hosted two meetings this week to present the plans for a road widening project for Bayers Road and the Highway 102 corridor from Windsor Street to Fall River.

The first meeting on Wednesday night left concerned residents frustrated at a lack of answers.

“They gave a good technical presentation but they didn’t answer a lot of questions that the people had, like when this was going to happen,” said Matt Jobb who lives on Bayers Road.

Jobb is a civil engineer and he found the presentation too technical without answering how the project will directly affect his yard.

Construction is expected to take place in stages over 30 years, but Jobb said that’s no comfort.

“That doesn’t help us because no one’s going to be interested in buying a house if they know this is coming.”

He added a few residents of Chebucto Road attended the meeting and said they sympathized with Bayers Road residents.

The second meeting in Bedford Thursday was expected to go smoother. Bedford Coun. Tim Outhit said the project is of great interest to commuters there.

“It’s positive in the sense that we’re happy to get some of the truck traffic from Burnside and local traffic off the Dartmouth Road and off the Bedford Highway,” he said. “But I think there are going to be some people in Bedford who have some concerns about the folks on Bayers Road.”

Like the Bayers Road residents, Outhit said city councillors are also looking for some answers before the issue comes to a vote.

“I’m hopeful we’ll be able to reach some solution with reversing lanes, etc. so this project would be less severe,” he said. “This is no slam dunk, nothing has been decided yet.”

[Keith P.]

I guess i'm just not sure where all these cars are going to go, even with the widening. There is still a Windsor St bottleneck, that stretch of Young (to Robie) is stressed with traffic as is, and Robie is not much better during peak. If there was a masterplan to develop the wastelands in that windsor st, kempt road, DND area, then I'd have to much different take on it. That would BE the destination, not just another bottleneck further up the road.

That's a fallacious argument. You would never be able to do a road improvement project if a prerequisite was that all destination routes be free of problems themselves. Besides, traffic diffuses as it moves. I see few issues in this case.

[hfx_chris]

Its not all of Connaught to Windosr, just between Connaught and Oxford... such a small area of concern. Between Oxford and Windsor their is plenty of room to widen the road.
Plenty of room? There are houses butting up against the sidewalk on the South side, and Willow Park to the north. I don't see how there's any more room between Windsor and Oxford than there is between Oxford and Connaught.

I maintain that between Connaught and Windsor, ban on-street parking and do the reversing lane thing, between Connaught and the Bi Hi make it six lanes, because that section could accommodate it, and at the same time fix that cluster fuck of an intersection in front of the shopping centre.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Barnet: Wider Bayers Road is good for environment

The minister for Conserve Nova Scotia thinks the idea of widening Bayers Road in Halifax is a good one.

"I think it’s the right approach," Energy Minister Barry Barnet told reporters after cabinet Thursday. "We now need long-term planning. We needed it decades ago and, frankly, there are going to be people who will be inconvenienced as a result of this, but it is a very long-term approach."

Mr. Barnet said improving the traffic system can be beneficial to the environment by reducing the number of cars that are idling and in some cases, shortening the distances from point A to B.

His views were not echoed by the 150 or so people who attended a public meeting Wednesday night and did not like what they saw. At the meeting, the crowd, mostly made up of homeowners and business people from the area, got a look at the conceptual study by Stantec Consulting, the first of several phases to take place over the next 27 years. The study cost $274,000, to be cost-shared by the province and the municipality.

That plan involves widening Bayers Road to six lanes between Highway 102 and Connaught Avenue and expanding it to four lanes the rest of the way to Windsor Street. The project, which involves both the province and HRM, is intended to deal with expected growth in the Bedford area over the next 30 years by increasing traffic capacity on Highway 102 all the way to Fall River.

Dave McCusker of Halifax’s transportation department said Wednesday the plan would mean taking off sections of about 80 properties along the route, which dismayed residents who live in the area.

Ian Epstein, who owns a house on Bayers Road, called the plan "insane," saying traffic only moves a little slower for about an hour at the end of the work day and then gets back to normal.

"Everyone who lives in the area sees it’s not even necessary," Mr. Epstein said Wednesday. "We chose to live in the city and they’re ripping our community apart."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney isn't the only wannabe urban planner in government. Someone should explain induced traffic to Mr. Barnet. This project is designed to allow more cars to travel through Bayers Road. Improved roads also allow people to commute farther.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

I maintain that between Connaught and Windsor, ban on-street parking and do the reversing lane thing, between Connaught and the Bi Hi make it six lanes, because that section could accommodate it, and at the same time fix that cluster fuck of an intersection in front of the shopping centre.

I'd say you have eighty percent of the solution right there.

Has there been ANY talk of a bus-lane as part of this project? Many routes heading to Mumford travel on Bayers Road and I can only imagine the ten to twenty minute delays that are common cause problems with schedules across the city. A Link to Clayton Park won't be very quick if it has to sit in traffic on Bayer's Road.

[spaustin]

The Herald's editorial


Bayers Road widening: Take broad perspective


Sat. Feb 14 - 6:39 AM
MAYBE we should call it Barry’s Road.

Barry Barnet, the minister responsible for Conserve Nova Scotia – the provincial eco-nanny agency – has enthusiastically adopted the idea of broadening Bayers Road. So why shouldn’t the widened artery adopt his name?

Few thoroughfares are more familiar provincewide than this one. It’s one of the main entry points into Halifax for visitors and one of the main congestion points for daily commuters.

On Thursday, Mr. Barnet came at the issue from a rather novel perspective. He said it makes environmental sense to expand the road – to six lanes between Highway 102 and Connaught Avenue and to four lanes on the remainder of the stretch to Windsor Street. A smoother traffic flow, he argued, would cut down on the amount of idling and therefore on the amount of air pollution.

Mr. Barnet is right, but only in a small sense. In the long run, laying down more asphalt will only succeed in attracting more traffic from the Bedford corridor and beyond. If we end up paving the way for more single-occupant vehicles over the next 30 years, that will be bad for the environment.

It will be especially bad for those neighbourhoods on the front line that are expected to make way for the river of cars. Some 80 properties along the route would have to be acquired over time to make the widening possible, Bayers Road residents were told earlier this week at an information forum. Predictably, they were none too pleased.

In effect, the ecological footprint of a growing Bedford area would land like a crater in their front yards. Yet shouldn’t the price of living in suburbia be borne primarily by suburbanites, in terms of their commuting time, as opposed to urbanites, in terms of their living space?

In a fair world, it would. In the real world, compromises will have to be made. It’s hard to see how the residents, no matter how just their cause, will be able to hold off the four-wheeled hordes forever.

If the traffic artery needs to be unclogged, then at least let’s mitigate the effects and make it worthwhile. No widening should proceed without giving the green light to a transit-priority corridor, or carpool and reversible lanes. Affordable express bus and ferry rides from Bedford to the downtown should also be part of the mix. It makes no sense to simply subsidize cars – which paving projects do – without investing equally in the alternatives.

Mr. Barnet gave some indication that he agrees with this hybrid perspective. That’s a saving grace. Let’s also hope that by the time any widening proceeds several years down the road, it will be to make way for more hybrid vehicles.

[spaustin]

And Marilla Stephenson's take


Let’s hope reason prevails in traffic debate

By MARILLA STEPHENSON
Sat. Feb 14 - 5:12 AM

IF YOU THINK the battle over widening a tiny strip of Chebucto Road was overheated, you’d better take shelter from the pending inferno over Bayers Road.

A public information session this week to outline draft plans to widen the major artery drew 150 people from the surrounding area. And they’re just getting warmed up.

Let’s just say the long-term plan that would have sections of Bayers Road widened over the next 30 years was not exactly welcomed with open arms. If anybody was in favour, they didn’t have the nerve to loudly advertise that position at the public meeting on Wednesday.

And that is pretty much what Halifax city staff expected. A motion by council last month successfully changed the meeting format from a cafe latte-style session to a formal presentation followed by questions from the public. Having attended way too many public hearings over the years, I can tell you that the latter is much more effective at building volatility. All the better to roast you with, my dear.

The idea is to create as much resistance as possible to the project. Councillors who represent the area, knowing their political hides are on the line, are onside with local residents who have voiced vehement opposition to the plan.

Much of the debate swirls around the black and white arguments that cars and trucks are bad, but buses, bicycles and carpools are good. There is rarely any room for middle ground in the emotions that accompany these debates, as we saw last year at Chebucto Road.

It’s interesting to consider just how long the widening of Bayers Road has been on the blackboard down at city hall. Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) was this week quoting city staff comments from 1995 on any potential widening plans and there were plenty of discussions on the issue that occurred even earlier.

I have spent years commuting onto and through the peninsula in rush-hour traffic. I soon learned two rules for survival: Never take Bedford Highway or Bayers Road inbound, and if you’re stuck taking Bayers Road outbound at the end of the day, you’d better pack a late lunch.

I shudder to think what Bayers Road traffic would look like three decades from now without improvements.

Yet if I don’t nod my head in agreement over somebody’s idea of a new, super, all-things-to-all-commuters bus route that’s supposed to save my day, I’m branded some sort of dinosaur. I do drive a car, after all.

Sorry, but there is no bus that could even begin to come close to charting my path. And if there was, it would have to allow for a pack mule to come aboard with me and the rest of the family.

I don’t think I’m all that different from many of the thousands of commuters who live off the peninsula and pay thousands in annual property taxes. Somewhere in all of that spending down at city hall, a decent road network that reflects a progressive city should be a priority. That doesn’t have to mean asphalt through every old peninsula neighbourhood, either.

Of course we need more housing density downtown, but that’s not going to mean the end to new development off the peninsula. And with universities, hospitals and thousands of financial and public-sector jobs located in downtown Halifax, people are still going to need to access their employment.

I’m all for improved transit and carpooling and it’s shameful that the city has done so little to encourage cycling to work. But until Halifax passes the multimillion population mark, the idea of a fully effective transit system for commuters strung over such a large geographic area is a pipe dream. Not everybody can efficiently take the bus.

The most heavily populated stretch of Bayers Road is between Connaught Avenue and Windsor Street. Staff told residents at the meeting that it could be widened to four lanes. As far as my eyes can tell, it’s four lanes already and might even work better for now if tow trucks were better positioned to drag off parking offenders during rush-hour restrictions. Ditto for Quinpool Road, by the way.

There is probably some reasonable middle-ground solution for the Bayers Road traffic debate that has hovered over successive city councils for the past two decades. Reasonable, that is, if reason, rather than heat and fury, is allowed to prevail.

[Dmajackson]

While I mainly agree with lady from the second article I have to wonder where in Bedford can you live and not have a bus route available?

All of Bedford has a bus route within a twenty minute walking time and if need be she could use a transfer like I do.

She's defenitely right about everything else though. Being a Bedfordian myself I have learnt to never use Bayers Road or the Bedford Highway on weekdays. If an accident happens on either route it could take hours to get onto the Peninsula. Its much safer to use Magazine Hill which can still have a lane open after accidents. Just today (Saturday) there was a small hold-up at Windsor Street but within five minutes the Bedford Highway line-up was backed up beyond Joe Howe.

Really IMO the best solution would be a bus lane on Bayers, a bicycle path from off the Peninsula, and to fast track the Link to Clayton Park.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Lets do nothing to improve our road/transit infrastructure and build bike lanes directly beside high traffic areas. Also, we should not let anybody build structures in Halifax taller than 3 stories and let existing heritage crumble. Additionally, we should make any site that would have potential for a landmark development and turn it into green space... In fact, lets get rid of housing, roads, and all modern infrastructure and revert to a hunter gatherer society, as this will have the least impact on the environment.

[hfx_chris]

Lets do nothing to improve our road/transit infrastructure and build bike lanes directly beside high traffic areas. Also, we should not let anybody build structures in Halifax taller than 3 stories and let existing heritage crumble. Additionally, we should make any site that would have potential for a landmark development and turn it into green space... In fact, lets get rid of housing, roads, and all modern infrastructure and revert to a hunter gatherer society, as this will have the least impact on the environment.
I understand sarcasm when I see it, but I'm not sure to whom you are directing it...

[Dmajackson]

I understand sarcasm when I see it, but I'm not sure to whom you are directing it...

I think they might be directing it towards NIMBY's in general.

The bike lanes idea sounds good though :tup:

Halifax needs a lot more bike lanes.

[worldlyhaligonian]

LOL, I'm happy that you identified my sarcasm... it wasn't directed at any one person, but was meant to address the all of the prominent views that are ruining this city.


I am in favour of bike lanes... just not the way they are being done here in Halifax.

I lived in Amsterdam, they know how to do it. The bike trails over there are inside of the sidewalk, meaning that you aren't in open traffic. Or, the bike lanes go through neighborhoods, indepdendent of the street infrastucture. The best example of this in Halifax would be in and around Westmount school and I fully support this kind of trail.

"Bike lanes" in Halifax seem like a huge cop out to me, buzz words like "green". This is why I was sarcastic. Especially because all the talk usually amounts to them merely taking space away from car lanes and painting in a line. How much do these "bike lanes" end up costing anyway?

How is a bike lane safe when it is merely a painted line differentiating where cars aren't supposed to be? I drive alot and cars don't even stay inside their own lines (esp. Metro Transit bueses). LOL, I would never drive in most bike lanes in Halifax for fear of being absolutely creamed by some driver who doesn't really care that they have two tires inside the "bike lane". If the bike lanes weren't so dangerous I would consider it, but given the way they are done, thats not much of an option. For example, Bell Rd.


I saw a Metro Transit bus run a red light on 2 different occassions last week. Whether you are walking, biking, or driving, watch out. A pedestrian or biker is going to get killed by a MT bus this year, I'll put money on it.

[Dmajackson]

LOL, I'm happy that you identified my sarcasm... it wasn't directed at any one person, but was meant to address the all of the prominent views that are ruining this city.


I am in favour of bike lanes... just not the way they are being done here in Halifax.

I lived in Amsterdam, they know how to do it. The bike trails over there are inside of the sidewalk, meaning that you aren't in open traffic. Or, the bike lanes go through neighborhoods, indepdendent of the street infrastucture. The best example of this in Halifax would be in and around Westmount school and I fully support this kind of trail.

"Bike lanes" in Halifax seem like a huge cop out to me, buzz words like "green". This is why I was sarcastic. Especially because all the talk usually amounts to them merely taking space away from car lanes and painting in a line. How much do these "bike lanes" end up costing anyway?

How is a bike lane safe when it is merely a painted line differentiating where cars aren't supposed to be? I drive alot and cars don't even stay inside their own lines (esp. Metro Transit bueses). LOL, I would never drive in most bike lanes in Halifax for fear of being absolutely creamed by some driver who doesn't really care that they have two tires inside the "bike lane". If the bike lanes weren't so dangerous I would consider it, but given the way they are done, thats not much of an option. For example, Bell Rd.

The problem on some roads like the Bedford Highway is there is no curb or no space at all to install a proper bike lane. Now I am not defending HRM on this but anyone who has driven up the Bfd Hwy can tell that the bus stops, bike lanes and normal traffic lanes are all one because of the narrow HRM R.O.W.

One thing I am pleased with though is HRM is starting to designate side streets as main bike throughfares, like Shore Drive. From personal experience I can say use the side streets as much as possible. I've tried biking up Dartmouth Road before and its suicidal.

I saw a Metro Transit bus run a red light on 2 different occassions last week. Whether you are walking, biking, or driving, watch out. A pedestrian or biker is going to get killed by a MT bus this year, I'll put money on it.

Are you sure the buses didn't have a transit light? Some intersections have little white lights that allow the buses to run-the-red for everyone else.

[worldlyhaligonian]

100% sure, Quinpool doesn't have those and the bus almost caused 2 accidents in one case.

The other one was on Oxford street and Almon...

The city should be building sidewalks everywhere, none of this car-oriented suburbabn b/s.

[worldlyhaligonian]

The problem on some roads like the Bedford Highway is there is no curb or no space at all to install a proper bike lane.

What about a nice bike lane and sidewalk following the inside of the shoreline with a walking bridge section over the tracks down near the bottom of Windsor?

[Dmajackson]

100% sure, Quinpool doesn't have those and the bus almost caused 2 accidents in one case.

The other one was on Oxford street and Almon...

The city should be building sidewalks everywhere, none of this car-oriented suburbabn b/s.

Okay just checking. I know some parts of town have those lights. :)

What about a nice bike lane and sidewalk following the inside of the shoreline with a walking bridge section over the tracks down near the bottom of Windsor?

There is a plan for a multi-use trail created by infill from Mill Cove to Birch Cove. I think it said stretching it to the Peninsula would be hard because of Rockingham and Fairview Terminal.

[pnightingale]

The most heavily populated stretch of Bayers Road is between Connaught Avenue and Windsor Street. Staff told residents at the meeting that it could be widened to four lanes. As far as my eyes can tell, it’s four lanes already and might even work better for now if tow trucks were better positioned to drag off parking offenders during rush-hour restrictions. Ditto for Quinpool Road, by the way.

That is my biggest pet peeve!! If they would just send tow trucks down these streets at 4:00 when the parking ban starts then traffic would move so much better!! Bayers Rd, Quinpool Rd, and Hollis St are the ones that I find the worst for people stopping during rush hour.

I saw a Metro Transit bus run a red light on 2 different occassions last week. Whether you are walking, biking, or driving, watch out. A pedestrian or biker is going to get killed by a MT bus this year, I'll put money on it.

I think technically MT always has right of way, don't they? I'm not sure exactly how that rule applies to intersections, but I think they might be allowed to jump the lights if they are about to change and it is safe.... I might be completely making this up, but I thought I heard about it....

[hfx_chris]

Nope, Metro Transit has no extra rights or privileges in intersections than you or I, unless there's a transit priority signal.

[worldlyhaligonian]

[QUOTE=hfx_chris;4086390]Plenty of room? There are houses butting up against the sidewalk on the South side, and Willow Park to the north. I don't see how there's any more room between Windsor and Oxford than there is between Oxford and Connaught.
[QUOTE]

Willow Park isn't a "park". To encrouch onto those lands from the RCMP building to Windsor would be simple, its a parking lot for over 60% of it.

Do yourself a favour and look at this on Microsoft Live.

[Dmajackson]

That is my biggest pet peeve!! If they would just send tow trucks down these streets at 4:00 when the parking ban starts then traffic would move so much better!! Bayers Rd, Quinpool Rd, and Hollis St are the ones that I find the worst for people stopping during rush hour.

I like the idea of actually enforcing the parking by-laws. Especially since they are enforcing the overnight by-law this year.

I think technically MT always has right of way, don't they? I'm not sure exactly how that rule applies to intersections, but I think they might be allowed to jump the lights if they are about to change and it is safe.... I might be completely making this up, but I thought I heard about it....

I think they only special law the MT has is you have to legally allow the buses back onto the road when they are at a bus stop.

Other than that they only get the priority signals. Accoridng to what I know everything with wheels on the road have the same rights.

[someone123]

Nope, Metro Transit has no extra rights or privileges in intersections than you or I, unless there's a transit priority signal.

They have the privilege of driving a giant hunk of metal that's going to hurt you a lot more than you will hurt it if you get in the way. ;)

[Dmajackson]

They have the privilege of driving a giant hunk of metal that's going to hurt you a lot more than you will hurt it if you get in the way. ;)

Speaking of which a double-trailer gasoline truck cut-off the cars in front of me today almost causing me to ram into them on Windmill Road today.

Just how much training does one need to driver a big vehicle like a bus? :rolleyes:

[hfx_chris]

Willow Park isn't a "park". To encrouch onto those lands from the RCMP building to Windsor would be simple, its a parking lot for over 60% of it.

Do yourself a favour and look at this on Microsoft Live.
Thanks, I know what Willow Park is, I'm not a retard. It may be a parking lot, but it's a federally owned parking lot, somehow I doubt the municipal government can expropriate federal land, especially that of the Canadian Forces.
And actually Microsoft Live is exactly what I used to judge the amount of available space, so again thanks for your excellent suggestions.

[hfx_chris]

I think they only special law the MT has is you have to legally allow the buses back onto the road when they are at a bus stop.
That was talked about a few years back, but it never went beyond that. Right now there is nothing in the MVA that says you have to let a bus back into the traffic stream.

[Dmajackson]

That was talked about a few years back, but it never went beyond that. Right now there is nothing in the MVA that says you have to let a bus back into the traffic stream.

Well nothing other than common sense and curtousy ;)

[pnightingale]

Well nothing other than common sense and curtousy ;)

95% of drivers do not have either of these, however.

[Keith P.]

95% of drivers do not have either of these, however.

The protection of a militant union tends to do that to its members.

[Jonovision]

City buys homes for Bayers Road widening


By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE

City Hall Reporter

Widening Bayers Road in Halifax to as many as six lanes is a contentious propos al that may be years down the road, but that hasn’t stopped the municipality and province from acquiring properties.

City hall last year bought two homes on Bayers Road, a municipal staffer said Wednesday, and the province more recently bought one on nearby Abbott Drive.

The houses were bought in advance of the delivery of a consultant’s report to Halifax regional council, expected in September, and council’s debate about the street-wid ening project. “Purchasing property doesn’t commit anybody to anything," said Dave McCusk er, a transportation planning manager with Halifax Region al Municipality.

“It just gives us an opportu nity if we need it in the fu ture."

The homes were bought by government after owners offered them for sale. City hall paid $408,900 for its two acquisitions.

If the road project goes ahead, plans call for Bayers Road to be widened to five or six lanes between Connaught Avenue and the bridge over


the rail line near the Petro Canada station. McCusker said if council authorizes the road work, the job won’t be started any time soon.

“As part of the budgeting process, we develop a five year capital plan for projects like this. And there’s nothing related to Bayers Road in our five-year . . . plan that was submitted this year."

McCusker said the road widening proposal is in the works to handle increased traffic expected with the mu nicipality’s continued growth.

He said plans would probably include bus-only lanes on Bayers Road, which is consid ered a major corridor.

“That’s the direction we would like to go in."

According to declassified staff reports, the municipality paid $169,900 for one single family home and $239,000 for the other. Regional council discussed the real estate trans actions in secret in August 2009.

Both properties are to be held by the municipality and rented “pending council’s direction with respect to the project," the staff reports say.

McCusker said the project is part of the municipality’s re gional plan. If the Bayers Road widening gets the green light, it would be the second major thorough fare in Halifax in recent years to be widened. In 2008, part of Chebucto Road was expanded after community protests and an unsuccessful challenge by former councillor Sheila Foug ere.

The Bayers Road project is also controversial. Last year, a former resident took govern ment officials to task for thinking about traffic first and people in their neighbour hoods second. “With stores and offices within walking distance, these are very close to being excel lent walking and biking neigh bourhoods, except for the lack of adequate infrastructure to support healthy and sustain able transportation," Peter Rogers said in a letter to The Chronicle Herald.

“Now, for the sake of in creased suburban sprawl, we are going to make this sit uation worse."

(mlightstone@herald.ca)

http://halifaxchronicle.can.newsmemory.com/newsmemvol1/canada/halifaxchronicle/20100708/ch_mb_07-08-10_a02.pdf.0/img/Image_2.jpg
Rush-hour traffic crawls along Bayers Road in Halifax. City hall bought two homes on Bayers Road last year as part of a long-term proposal to widen the thoroughfare. (ERIC WYNNE / Staff)

[halifaxboyns]

These properties are a good start; but I suspect that many properties along the route will have to get bought up.

While I normally am not pro widening roads, I think this would be helpful to eleviate congestion - my worry is that it will contribute and suggest automobile use is still okay. I would definately support this is bus only lanes (or bus and LRT provisions) are made in the design - however the bigger question with an LRT is once you run out of roads where a boulevard could use used to put the train int he middle - where does it go and how do you get it downtown?

This will certainly be interesting to see what happens.

[halifaxboyns]

I found on facebook an anti-Bayer's Road widening group - FYI.

[-Harlington-]

:previous: surprise, aha

[halifaxboyns]

:previous: surprise, aha

Whenever my friends would say something that wouldn't surprise me; I haul out my usual phrase. "Wow, I'm shocked. Here, see - this is my putting on my shocked face" and then I'd put my hand over my face and reveal - the same expression. Add one of my apparently very sarcastic eye rolls and it would usually create a laugh. That's how I've gotten into trouble in public meetings (with my eye rolls). I've learned to keep them in check.