Calgary Purchaser Cancellations

[seven thirty]

First post on here so pls mind any rules I may or may not be breaking....

With the Calgary market continuing to soften and construction moving forward, does anyone know or have any statistical information on purchaser cancellation rates in Calgary or even Alberta as a whole?

Late 2006 + all of 2007 saw so many purchasers putting down minimal deposits of 5-10% on units (mostly pre-construction highrise) at inflated market prices--they were most typically investors or first-time homebuyers. Here we are now, 1.5+ years later, closing dates are coming and going and a good number purchasers are opting to walk on their deposits rather than taking on (or getting approved for) a mortgage amount that is far greater than the unit's fair market value.

Does anyone know of or have any stats to back up this observation. It seems I hear about it all the time however it's not something that is tracked or monitored by CMHC or CHBA. Thoughts?

With the way the current market is sitting, what is a realistic cancellation rate to expect if I have upcoming possession dates for purchasers that signed that offer to purchase when the market was red hot 1+ years ago??

signed,

nervous

[Coldrsx]

while i have nothing factual to back this up i would guess we see a relatively small percentage, say 5-10% back out...

[240glt]

You aren't a speculator are you ?

[Bigtime]

Here we are now, 1.5+ years later, closing dates are coming and going and a good number purchasers are opting to walk on their deposits rather than taking on (or getting approved for) a mortgage amount that is far greater than the unit's fair market value.

Do you know of anyone personally that has walked?

Projects that are taking posession or close would be Vetro/Union Square/Colours/Nova/Castello/Xenex. If one could gather any info on them in this regard it would help answer the question.

[lubicon]

If the deposits were put down 1.5-2 years ago, the market of today could be similar to what it was back then (??). We had a huge run up in prices but it has only started to tail off in the past year or so. I wonder if people truly are sitting on a unit that is worth less than they are going to have to pay, or if will only be worth roughly what they did agree topay for it (ie not immediate profit on a sale). Pure speculation on my part.

Some people likely will walk away though, and I doubt the developers will be going out of their way to advertise how many people have done so in their particular projects. I think the best we can hope to hear is anecdotal evidence rather then actual numbers.

[bigcanuck]

Some people likely will walk away though, and I doubt the developers will be going out of their way to advertise how many people have done so in their particular projects. I think the best we can hope to hear is anecdotal evidence rather then actual numbers.

Likewise, we may not hear from developers who choose to go after the purchasers to honour their contracts. There will be legal approaches to follow for breaking the contract - lots of developers will likely choose to enforce the contracts but won't advertise it as it makes them look like the bad guys.

[Innersoul1]

In the project I am working on we have 160 units in the first building. Of those, thus far, we are looking at about 20 who are considering walking away. Of course the average purchaser does not recognize the legal reprecussions and obligations that they have when they sign a contract for the purchase of a unit.

[Innersoul1]

In addition to the above the rental market is HOT! We have owners who wanted to flip but are quite content with renting their suites as they are getting tons of responses.

I have a guy who listed his suite on rentfaster.com and had 20 phone calls within 10 minutes of his listing going live.

[Coldrsx]

In the project I am working on we have 160 units in the first building. Of those, thus far, we are looking at about 20 who are considering walking away. Of course the average purchaser does not recognize the legal reprecussions and obligations that they have when they sign a contract for the purchase of a unit.

bingo

[seven thirty]

In the project I am working on we have 160 units in the first building. Of those, thus far, we are looking at about 20 who are considering walking away. Of course the average purchaser does not recognize the legal reprecussions and obligations that they have when they sign a contract for the purchase of a unit.

Coldrsx> dead on or so it seems at 12.5%. incredible.

Innersoul>if you don't mind me asking, how have you determined that 20 of your 160 purchasers will walk? Is that simply a hunch or have these purchasers communicated that to you? That's a scary reality however I would think it's would be a rare occasion when the builder/developer would come chase the walking purchaser for further damages above and beyond their initial deposit. agree?

Clearly, I need to do some digging as lubicon stated>there will never come a time when builders/developers will advertise this information. I do however wonder if that 5-15% cancellation is accurate as of today? It's a problem that most developers fear getting into it and seems to only be getting bigger with time (at least for the next 18-24 months) They didn't sign up to be in the resale game so one would only believe their objective would be to avoid taking back units and associated carrying costs. There doesn't seem to be anything developers/builders can do but sit tight and hope for the best if they have upcoming possessions. Even with rental possibilities, still too much uncertainty out there...

[seven thirty]

Do you know of anyone personally that has walked?

Projects that are taking posession or close would be Vetro/Union Square/Colours/Nova/Castello/Xenex. If one could gather any info on them in this regard it would help answer the question.

Unfortunately, I do. one particular scenario as follows:
2007 Purchase Price: $900,000
Appraised Market Value: $760,000 (some would argue even less)
Initial Deposit: $90,000 (10%)
End Result: They walked and lost their 10% and the builder is now stuck with a unit they cannot sell as they've got 15 units just like it that won't move. It's a lose-lose.

[Bigtime]

I may be taking crazy pills but why would someone spending that much on a unit look at their potential to flip it for more money? Doesn't it stand to reason that if you are the kind of person that can afford that you don't have a need to make money on your purchase?

If you are buying to live and have no problem with the $900,000 price tag then there is no reason to walk on it.

[Halofire]

You also have to factor in how many people would walk away in normal market conditions. In the time it takes to build a condo, many people's lives may have changed significantly from when they made the initial deposit. I would guess it may be somewhere between 0-5% that would walk away. I honestly don't see this being a major issue.

I'm noticing a lot less realtor key-boxes on my condo in Bridgeland, and it looks like the number of listings are not rising significantly anymore, nor are the prices falling fast (at least on the mls listings). I think were starting to get into a hold pattern right now. If we see oil & gas prices rise again, it won't be too long before things start to improve, though it will be a much slower, more normal growth rate.

[Innersoul1]

Coldrsx> dead on or so it seems at 12.5%. incredible.

Innersoul>if you don't mind me asking, how have you determined that 20 of your 160 purchasers will walk? Is that simply a hunch or have these purchasers communicated that to you? That's a scary reality however I would think it's would be a rare occasion when the builder/developer would come chase the walking purchaser for further damages above and beyond their initial deposit. agree?

Clearly, I need to do some digging as lubicon stated>there will never come a time when builders/developers will advertise this information. I do however wonder if that 5-15% cancellation is accurate as of today? It's a problem that most developers fear getting into it and seems to only be getting bigger with time (at least for the next 18-24 months) They didn't sign up to be in the resale game so one would only believe their objective would be to avoid taking back units and associated carrying costs. There doesn't seem to be anything developers/builders can do but sit tight and hope for the best if they have upcoming possessions. Even with rental possibilities, still too much uncertainty out there...

Yeah we are in communication with purchasers prior to their possessions. Thus, we have a fairly good tab on how closings are progressing or will progress. It is a scary reality and as it has been mentioned situations change during the course of construction. The project I am involved in has only taken two years. Essentially, those 20 can be divided into two categories:

1) We just don't have any interest in closing any more (these are largely speculators or "weekend" investors).

2) Those who can't get financing (I will explain below - these purchasers are fairly easy to resolve as we have our own brokers who can likely approve them. However, many in this case end up falling into the category above.

What we are finding along with a number of other sites around the city is the appraisers are not appraising the suites at what they purchased at and in many cases significantly lower. Thus CMHC won't insure the loan and that becomes a big issue. The main problem, that blows my mind, is that appraisers don't take into account the same factors that we do when pricing a suite. For example our courtyard facing suites are higher in price than exterior ones. A fourth floor suite is higher in price than second floor suite. The appraisers only look at the layout an upgrades, sometimes they even slip on the latter. This is a HUGE problem.

As for builders chasing the purchasers for further damages it isn't as far off as you think. Generally, in the industry what happens is a suite that isn't closed on is passed to a realtor who has the ability to sell at a lowered price. The difference between the price paid for by the initial purchaser (the walker) and what the realtor sells for can be charged to the initial purchaser. In most cases the threat is what gets people to close.

[harpua]

long time reader, first time poster...thanks for the great resource guys.

I know a LOT of speculators in castello, union square and xenex and most are having one of two problems:

1) can't close as they cannot get a mortgage for whatever reason (can't qualify, appraised value is below contract price)

2) won't close because they were counting on being able to flip the property before construction was completed....market is putting the brakes on the flip strategy. these guys will walk away from 50k deposits and leave the developer holding the bag, 100%. in most cases these buyers are young speculators with little in terms of assets to go after.

Looking at castello specifically, a few 2nd and 3rd floor listings are on MLS. Centron's listings are priced at well above $500/sf (1500sqf penthouse@$810/sqf, 9th floor 1270sf@$557/sqf, 9th floor 988sqf@$540/sqf )


..while the owner listings are as low as $450/sf. Who knows what price they will actually sell at!

I am waiting until all of these projects are complete and developers are desperate to unload units at build cost, just to get them off their books. That time is fast approaching....2009 will be a year for bargain hunters!

[freeweed]

I may be taking crazy pills but why would someone spending that much on a unit look at their potential to flip it for more money? Doesn't it stand to reason that if you are the kind of person that can afford that you don't have a need to make money on your purchase?

Besides the fact that someone who can take a loss on a $90,000 deposit... that's just insane. The value in the example hadn't dropped THAT much, this was clearly someone who simply couldn't afford what they bought in the first place, and likely was massively in debt for the down payment alone.

I'm having less and less sympathy for these morons all the time. It's one thing to find out that the condo you live in is now worth $200,000 less than your mortgage, and you're now very anxious to see the market go back up (because who knows what happens in life, and if you DO have to sell, you're ruined). It's a whole other ball of wax to sign up for a purchase that you clearly cannot afford.

These assholes destroyed the US economy, and arguably caused a large slowdown in Calgary's immigration rate (some will say this was a good thing) as they all tried to out-bid one another on properties they couldn't afford in the first place. And now we get to have a mini-market slowdown as the market absorbs the consequences of their poorly planned greed.

I hope more than a few of them lose their shirts.

[Bigtime]

Freeweed: You and I are totally on the same page. Did all these speculators think they were mini Donald Trumps or something? They have ruined the biggest push towards inner city densification that this city has seen in a long time, now we will be waiting at least a couple of years for everything to correct and the next wave to get up and running.

Harpua: Welcome to the forum! I have a quick question, in your point #2 you mention speculators that were hoping to flip before posession. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the majority of purchase contracts prevented the ability to sell the property until after posession and title is taken by the buyer. Or are there ways around this?

As for point #1, didn't they do the calculations before to make sure they weren't overextending themselves? This really seems like basic financial planning 101 to myself and quite a few others.

[freeweed]

As for point #1, didn't they do the calculations before to make sure they weren't overextending themselves? This really seems like basic financial planning 101 to myself and quite a few others.

No, most did not (from those that I know). When unit values were going up $20,000+ in a MONTH, most people just extrapolated forever, into infinite dollar signs.

Simpsons fans will appreciate this: "Did you know disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If this trend continues... AYYYYY!"

Thankfully, most of them are going to learn a very painful lesson.

[Bigtime]

Simpsons fans will appreciate this: "Did you know disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If this trend continues... AYYYYY!"

This is the best comparison to be brought up yet! :tup:

[frinkprof]

"Did you know disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If this trend continues... AYYYYY!"
"Your fish are dead."

"I know. I... can't get them out of there."

[seven thirty]

long time reader, first time poster...thanks for the great resource guys.

I know a LOT of speculators in castello, union square and xenex and most are having one of two problems:

1) can't close as they cannot get a mortgage for whatever reason (can't qualify, appraised value is below contract price)

2) won't close because they were counting on being able to flip the property before construction was completed....market is putting the brakes on the flip strategy. these guys will walk away from 50k deposits and leave the developer holding the bag, 100%. in most cases these buyers are young speculators with little in terms of assets to go after.

Looking at castello specifically, a few 2nd and 3rd floor listings are on MLS. Centron's listings are priced at well above $500/sf (1500sqf penthouse@$810/sqf, 9th floor 1270sf@$557/sqf, 9th floor 988sqf@$540/sqf )


..while the owner listings are as low as $450/sf. Who knows what price they will actually sell at!

I am waiting until all of these projects are complete and developers are desperate to unload units at build cost, just to get them off their books. That time is fast approaching....2009 will be a year for bargain hunters!

Harpua>welcome aboard. I too have been reading for ages and just recently decided to post. Question for you>do you know if Castello sold out initially? Who has the listings on MLS? Was there not a clause in the purchase agreement that did not allow purchasers to sell for at least one year after the completion of construction?

I think your #1 purchasers (those who are young speculators looking to make a flip and couldn't afford to get financing if they wanted to) are a good majority of the "cancellation" market in calgary right now---primarily because the unit today is not worth what they paid a year or more ago and the lenders are laughing in their face.

I agree with everyone's point about these speculators getting what they deserve but I still wonder about the builder or developer that is left with unwanted inventory they cannot get rid of (ie. Harpua's case with the $450/sqft owner product vs $500+/sqft builder product). Although the purchaser may get what is coming to them (losing their 5-10% deposit), the builder or developer is really the one who will lose when they are incurring carrying-costs for all these units with no real way to get rid of them for the next 15-18 months. Yes, they could sit on them and rent them out but for the most part, they have no desire to be in the rental management/landlord business. The other scenario which makes me more nervous than any of the above, is the builder or developer that doesn't have the strong backing and/or deep pockets and is unable to meet their development financing agreement with their lender (meaning their pre-sale test has gone up in flames after the fact).

If everyone's above estimates are correct (that approx 5-15% of the deals in current condo market are walking), in some cases that would be enough for the development lenders to walk away from the deal themselves, leaving the builders and developers screwed.

[harpua]

Bigtime- re: selling before possession

usually the M.O. of these guys was to privately assign the contract to a buyer for the cash difference between the contract price and the new price...so the contract holder would get cash from the buyer, and have a side contract with the buyer to assign him the benefit of the purchase contract upon closing. obvously, this kind of deal can get very hairy but these are the types of things that were going on during the condo boom!

seven-

Castello did not sell out, centron is still holding units, not sure how many but at least 3 centron-owned units are up on MLS right now.

I know that centron does have "no-sell" clauses like that in most of their later contracts...along with other crazy clauses. one particularly interesting clause maintains that the buyer cannot list at a price lower than the builder if the builder is trying to sell as well..

these clauses are likely unenforcable, however....essentially, once you purchase the property you can do whatever you want with it, especially if it's your home. It would be a stretch for any court to side with centron on those issues...especially since it has to do with buyers who actually closed on purchases!

[freeweed]

I agree with everyone's point about these speculators getting what they deserve but I still wonder about the builder or developer that is left with unwanted inventory they cannot get rid of (ie. Harpua's case with the $450/sqft owner product vs $500+/sqft builder product). Although the purchaser may get what is coming to them (losing their 5-10% deposit), the builder or developer is really the one who will lose when they are incurring carrying-costs for all these units with no real way to get rid of them for the next 15-18 months.

For the most part, the builders are just fine. Keep in mind that many of these buyers are walking because the unit DIDN'T GO UP ENOUGH, not because it went way below their purchase price. Most developments in this city were sold FAR lower than they're worth today, even with the price drops.

There may be a building or 2 out there where a developer went ahead assuming prices would stay high, but you know what? Fuck 'em. Anyone with half a brain should have seen this coming. There's a reason Midtown got canceled, even though the site was well under way.

[seven thirty]

appreciate the clarity harpua. pretty interesting times in the market right now. Many (those in their early 30's or younger) most likely weren't around in the early 80's to witness a somewhat similar situation. For many Calgarians (being a city with of a lot of young people), its the first time in their lives they will have had to deal with a market like this. Many don't know what to do or how to deal with it. Many went from visions of getting rich quick to scrambling to off-load property or being forced to close on a deal with no real way to carry it. sad.

It seems everyone these days has an opinion as to where the market is going. Everywhere I go, its the hottest topic of conversation. 6+ years ago, real estate wasn't the "in" thing to do. Now it seems everyone, from the bar manager to the O+G engineer, has a serious amount of money tied up in real estate--somewhere.

The million dollar question still seems to be, 'when is it all going to end?' When is this market realistically going to pick up again? I would speculate however speculation doesn't seem to be the way forward anymore;)

read this great article from Toronto Life magazine about the continuing bidding wars and overinflated prices in the GTA making many young homeowners house poor>worth a read:

http://www.torontolife.com/features/sinking-feeling/

[Bigtime]

appreciate the clarity harpua. pretty interesting times in the market right now. Many (those in their early 30's or younger) most likely weren't around in the early 80's to witness a somewhat similar situation. For many Calgarians (being a city with of a lot of young people), its the first time in their lives they will have had to deal with a market like this. Many don't know what to do or how to deal with it.

An excellent point, and dare I say an area where those of us that are born and raised Calgarians are beating our counterparts that weren't around in those times.

I was born in '81, 2 months later my father started his business. Not the best climate at the time, but growing up I've always heard the stories of how ugly it was out there and just how bad it was. I've always remembered those stories and kept them in my mind especially during these last couple of "the good times are never going to end" years.

[harpua]

yes, great point seventhirty. most of these young speculators I know had a mentality that real estate will go up 'forever' because they made 50-100% on their first 3 or 4 deals during the crazy boom.

so based on that, they kept putting down deposits on condos and new houses...

now, they are learning the hard way that real estate doesn't always go up!

[seven thirty]

this market is proof that>'what goes up must come down,' everything in the markets is cyclical in nature, no matter what direction a trend is going.

[Surrealplaces]

Yes, for the most part the builders won't do too badly. What really hurts the builders more than anything is construction delays and issues. Those costs can really add up.

Take Castello for example, at the time they were submitting the DP to the city the average price of a condo was far lower than it is today. Even at those costs, they still had planned to make a profit. I would bet that overall they'll make good coin on that project.

For the most part, the builders are just fine. Keep in mind that many of these buyers are walking because the unit DIDN'T GO UP ENOUGH, not because it went way below their purchase price. Most developments in this city were sold FAR lower than they're worth today, even with the price drops.

There may be a building or 2 out there where a developer went ahead assuming prices would stay high, but you know what? Fuck 'em. Anyone with half a brain should have seen this coming. There's a reason Midtown got canceled, even though the site was well under way.

[harpua]

the real question is....what % of builders/condo developers 'sales' are speculators...and what kind of hole does the loss of these sales blow in their financial models?

[freeweed]

this market is proof that>'what goes up must come down,' everything in the markets is cyclical in nature, no matter what direction a trend is going.

Actually it's just proof that short-term investing is very dangerous and mostly for the foolish. Much like daytrading.

The housing and stock markets go up in a pretty continual line, if you ignore short-term corrections. Investing in either for the long term is just about a guaranteed winning strategy.

[seven thirty]

couldn't agree with you more freeweed. The age-old philosophy of the investment company, AIC Berkshire, "Buy, Hold and Prosper" is true for our fical real estate world as well.

Harpua>that is the million dollar question. There really is no information out there currently (as far as I know) that tracks this type of information. Unfortunately, the information purchasers are filling out on their 1st visit to sales centres and show homes does not get passed along to the CHBA or CMHC. I know most sales teams in the industry could tell you who is a speculator and who is not. Any other thoughts?

[etown]

This story doesn't indicate a trend but . . .
I was just golfing on Sunday with a guy from a mid sized developer in Calgary and he said they are starting to see people walk away from their homes before possession. In one case the couple left $150k behind - this included deposit plus a few construction draws. The problem was they were counting on their current house for equity. Either it won't sell right now or it won't sell for enough to make the deal work. Ouch.

[Coldrsx]

^yup... heard similar stories here as well.

[freeweed]

I think you'll find a common current amongst all of these walk-aways: people who thought real estate values would continue to increase at a guaranteed 10-20% annual rate.

Let's politely call them "misguided". Let's also count our blessings that subprime lending never took off in Canada.

[seven thirty]

the stories are popping up all over the place and the unfortunate part is that it's happening more often the we are hearing.

the question is.... what's the solution to the problem? the vast majority of the sales people that originally brought in the deal and got it to firm, are now gone as it was most likely 1-2 years prior. The majority of sales people are championed with bringing deals to firm--not to close.

Could "walk-aways" be avoided if the problems or issues were addressed prior to possession? It's a bad situation for both the builder AND the purchaser as it stands now.

[240glt]

what's the solution to the problem?

About the only option is to let the market run its course.

All those units are going to find buyers sooner or later.

[Look way up]

About the only option is to let the market run its course.

All those units are going to find buyers sooner or later.

Exactly. The only really specific solution to this type of situation is called "free market economy". It will work itself out. some people will get stung, and for others it's a good opportunity.

[CMD UW]

Freeweed: You and I are totally on the same page. Did all these speculators think they were mini Donald Trumps or something?
Yes. As soon as Joe Neighbour or Susie Homemaker start becoming real estate investors or specialists, get out of the game. Its the first sign that the cycle is reaching its peak.

[CMD UW]

And to add another point, I believe that in the future, developers will be placing restrictions on when people can 'flip' their units upon possession, or they will reserve a number of units for investors only. This way it will reduce the mass invest-ation of the market.

[seven thirty]

well said gentlemen. Letting nature takes its course may be the only way indeed. However, the problem I believe that will exist for the next year++ does not just affect those that are "walking away," but the many builders and developers that were over leveraged themselves and will buckle under the pressure of a relatively large and unanticipated exodus of sales contracts. My fear is the problem's impact on future (already approved) projects.

There are a decent number of them in Calgary (Edmonton too I would assume) that have already received permits/approvals and are having no choice but to cancel or postpone construction. Maybe its a good thing they are getting canceled or being postponed? ..might give the market the time it needs to absorb the surplus of inventory sitting around, not moving.

[CMD UW]

well said gentlemen. Letting nature takes its course may be the only way indeed. However, the problem I believe that will exist for the next year++ does not just affect those that are "walking away," but the many builders and developers that were over leveraged themselves and will buckle under the pressure of a relatively large and unanticipated exodus of sales contracts. My fear is the problem's impact on future (already approved) projects.

There are a decent number of them in Calgary (Edmonton too I would assume) that have already received permits/approvals and are having no choice but to cancel or postpone construction. Maybe its a good thing they are getting canceled or being postponed? ..might give the market the time it needs to absorb the surplus of inventory sitting around, not moving.For the builders and developers that overleveraged themselves with little or no cash reserves should blame themselves. You cannot and should not operate a business in this manner.

In regards to postponing or delaying projects, yes, this will happen. We already have a couple of examples of this. However, one should understand that the majority of the projects that have been delayed are the result of two factors: 60% is related to the lack of available credit as lenders close the taps or poor financial management and 40% is the result of an over supplied market.

[lubicon]

And to add another point, I believe that in the future, developers will be placing restrictions on when people can 'flip' their units upon possession, or they will reserve a number of units for investors only. This way it will reduce the mass invest-ation of the market.

Not sure how they could go about doing this. Once someone has legal posession of a unit, how can you place a restriction on what they can do with it (in terms of when they can or cannot sell). And how do you know who is purchasing for investment and who is purchasing for the purpose of living?

[bigcanuck]

And how do you know who is purchasing for investment and who is purchasing for the purpose of living?

You are required to sign a disclosure upon purchase - if you're an investor, you do not qualify for the GST rebate and must notify the fed government. If you sign the form indicating you plan on living there, the developer must take your word from it (and permit you to apply the GST rebate) - if you're lying, it's the fed gov't your lying to and not the developer.

Based on your signing of the form, some developers will alter the cash down-payment required. ie. 5% if you plan on living there, 10% if you're an investor.

Edit: Of course, this may be moot as the GST rebate can only be applied to units purchased up to $450k and many condos are above that now...

[lubicon]

You are required to sign a disclosure upon purchase - if you're an investor, you do not qualify for the GST rebate and must notify the fed government. If you sign the form indicating you plan on living there, the developer must take your word from it (and permit you to apply the GST rebate) - if you're lying, it's the fed gov't your lying to and not the developer.

Based on your signing of the form, some developers will alter the cash down-payment required. ie. 5% if you plan on living there, 10% if you're an investor.

Edit: Of course, this may be moot as the GST rebate can only be applied to units purchased up to $450k and many condos are above that now...

Didn't know that. Thx.

[Bokimon]

I wonder if we should have a thread discussing any info about condo purchasings. I'm sure some of us may be looking for a condo to buy especially with the situation in the market now favoring towards the buyer.
I admit that I am also looking for a condo to buy as the prices have dropped enough that I could now be able to make the down payment and get a mortgage myself.

http://corgiguy.gohds.net/?ch=1.0.143.0.SOCAL:FORECLOSURE-ALLEY
A very interesting article about life in California thesedays. Some scary examples and ruined lifestyles. I cannot imagine what it is like to have a foreclosure. All I know is Foreclosure = the end of your life as you know it!

[shreddog]

I A very interesting article about life in California thesedays. Some scary examples and ruined lifestyles. I cannot imagine what it is like to have a foreclosure. All I know is Foreclosure = the end of your life as you know it!
I've been talking to many of my friends in Cali and yeah, it is weird down there - part of population is in denial saying that things will rebound any day now (and if they can scrimp for one more month everything will be okay) whereas others are expecting the big one (earthquake) to also hit any day now so there getting "out of Dodge" as quick as possible.

One thing about the "Foreclosure = the end of your life as you know it" mindset. That is a very Canadian perspective. Having lived and worked many years in the States, one of big differences I have noticed is the mindset relating to financial ruin. In Canada when one experiences bankrupcty/foreclosure, you become a pariah; in the US, when one does the same it's looked on as merely a bump on trying to reach the gold pot and they're expected to try again.

While this economic "shuffle" is significant, I don't expect it to significantly change the American mindset and those that do get whacked with financial ruin this time, will all be expected to try again on the next wave.

And as an ex-Ontarian who choose to live in Alberta, that same trait in something I see more here than in my old home town out East. As such, I do think that we will rebound quickly (mentally, if not financially) from any major hiccups that will soon come our way.

Speaking of which, one thing that has surprised me is the difference between the condo markets in Calgary and Toronto - haven't heard of any major cancellations or significant walk aways in TO yet. Either they're better at keeping it quiet, or that the maturity of their market (remember, they had a major condo mkt crash in 90's) means they had more experienced purchasers and builders.

[shreddog]

I A very interesting article about life in California thesedays. Some scary examples and ruined lifestyles. I cannot imagine what it is like to have a foreclosure. All I know is Foreclosure = the end of your life as you know it!
I've been talking to many of my friends in Cali and yeah, it is weird down there - part of population is in denial saying that things will rebound any day now (and if they can scrimp for one more month everything will be okay) whereas others are expecting the big one (earthquake) to also hit any day now so there getting "out of Dodge" as quick as possible.

One thing about the "Foreclosure = the end of your life as you know it" mindset. That is a very Canadian perspective. Having lived and worked many years in the States, one of big differences I have noticed is the mindset relating to financial ruin. In Canada when one experiences bankrupcty/foreclosure, you become a pariah; in the US, when one does the same it's looked on as merely a bump on trying to reach the gold pot and they're expected to try again.

While this economic "shuffle" is significant, I don't expect it to significantly change the American mindset and those that do get whacked with financial ruin this time, will all be expected to try again on the next wave.

And as an ex-Ontarian who choose to live in Alberta, that same trait in something I see more here than in my old home town out East. As such, I do think that we will rebound quickly (mentally, if not financially) from any major hiccups that will soon come our way.

Speaking of which, one thing that has surprised me is the difference between the condo markets in Calgary and Toronto - haven't heard of any major cancellations or significant walk aways in TO yet. Either they're better at keeping it quiet, or that the maturity of their market (remember, they had a major condo mkt crash in 90's) means they had more experienced purchasers and builders.

[mydssbin]

Does anybody out there know of anyone who has canceled their purchase and received full or partial payment back? How or what did they do to get it back?
Thanks