New Soccer Stadium Part of Ottawa MLS Bid

[YOWflier]

You go Eugene! If anyone has a chance at making this happen it's you.

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/292610712419960.php

Senators Sports and Entertainment owner Eugene Melnyk will announce details next week to build a new soccer stadium when he officially launches his bid to bring a Major League Soccer franchise to Ottawa.

A spokesperson declined to give out any details ahead of the press conference scheduled for Tuesday, except to say that officials already have a location in mind for the new stadium, which would be a prerequisite for landing a soccer team.

The Ottawa Senators owner and former Biovail executive is interested in bringing a team to the city for the 2011 season, when the league will expand from 16 to 18 teams.

The MLS, currently in its 13th season, has 14 teams including one in Toronto. Seattle Sounders FC will join the league in 2009 and a yet-to-be-named Philadelphia expansion team will debut in 2010.

Besides Ottawa, other potential expansion markets include Atlanta, Las Vegas, Montreal, a second team in the New York area, Portland, St. Louis and Vancouver.

[m0nkyman]

Cool. A professional sporting team that I would actually go out to see!!!!

This makes me excited.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Great news for Ottawa if they can land a franchise.

On a sidenote, why do teams in MLS add the FC to their names? Doesn't FC stand for 'football club', yet the league is a 'soccer' league, and the majority of us call the game 'soccer' in NA.

[Acajack]

The simple answer is to give themselves some legitimacy. They think that if they give themselves names with FC, “Real” or “United”, that people will think they actually have something in common with the prestigious European leagues, rather than some second-rate North American competition.

[fireicedog]

That's awesome news, anyone have any ideas where this might be. I would really like to see this somewhere close to preston street, lebreton flats would be perfect, but not gonna happen. I wonder if city centre would be large enough?

[clynnog]

That's awesome news, anyone have any ideas where this might be. I would really like to see this somewhere close to preston street, lebreton flats would be perfect, but not gonna happen. I wonder if city centre would be large enough?

Of the current City Council, how many do you think are actually footie fans....

Rainer Bloess plays in the OC Old Timers league at times, but the rest of them don't appear too footie positive.....the Mayor certainly strikes me as a hockey/baseball/4 downs football kind of guy.

[Mille Sabords]

BRING IT ON!!! I really hope we get a team. Whoever said it should be near Preston street gets my vote!!! A natural location, bar none.

Our team should be called the Ottawa St. Anthony's FC in honour of the most prominent non-pro team this city has.

[eemy]

I don't think anyone considers Ottawa a favourite, but no one considered it a favourite to win a hockey franchise either. :-D

[Acajack]

BRING IT ON!!! I really hope we get a team. Whoever said it should be near Preston street gets my vote!!! A natural location, bar none.

Our team should be called the Ottawa St. Anthony's FC in honour of the most prominent non-pro team this city has.

I like all of these suggestions. My only fear (shared by many here I bet) is that the stadium would end up in an open field in Kanata near the Sens' arena.

[AuxTown]

What's wrong with Lansdowne? It's probably the most sought after plot of land in Ottawa and there is such a history there with this city's sports fans. I think they only way we're gonna get a top notch stadium is if we see Hunt and Melnyk working together on this one. If this happens, I think we should errect a 30 foot tall bronze statue of Melnyk on or near Parliament Hill; he brings a "swagger" to this city that Larry O'Brien with his promises and tax cuts could only dream of.


September 12, 2008

Soccer, stadium plans to be announced TuesdaySenators' owner to outline plans for MLS franchise
By Sun Media


Senators owner Eugene Melnyk is planning a press conference for Tuesday to officially kick off a bid for a Major League Soccer franchise and to present details to build is being called a "new, world-class stadium."

In a release issued this morning, Senators Sports Entertainment says the announcement will take place Tuesday at Scotiabank Place at 9 a.m. The SSE has already announced its intention to bid for a team, but more details are expected to be outlined at this briefing.

The significant new wrinkle will be so-far-unreported plans for a stadium.

The City of Ottawa has been waffling for years on the future of the downtown Lansdowne Stadium, which is aging and in need of significant repair and construction if it is to be used for a major sports enterprise.

Couple the MLS bid with an already-announced plan by 67's owner Jeff Hunt and other supporters to bid for a Canadian Football League franchise and that would mean two significant possible teams for a new facility.

It is not yet known if Hunt and his partners will be partners in the stadium proposal.

[Acajack]

The problem is that Lansdowne is city-owned whereas these days team owners (who have the money – and these guys do) like to own their own facility. Why would Melnyk (and Hunt) kick in money to renovate a stadium they don’t even own? If anything, it might be cheaper and less of hassle to build from scratch in an open field in Kanata than to try and renovate Lansdowne.

Don’t get me wrong, I am first and foremost a supporter of the Lansdowne site for any major Ottawa stadium, but I am just being realistic here.

[AuxTown]

Sep 12, 2008 08:21 ET
Media Advisory: News Conference for Official Launch of Ottawa's MLS Bid and Stadium Plans Tuesday, Sept. 16, 9 a.m. at Scotiabank Place

OTTAWA, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Sept. 12, 2008) - Eugene Melnyk, owner of Senators Sports & Entertainment (SSE), will hold a news conference to officially launch the bid to bring a Major League Soccer franchise to Ottawa and present details to build a new world-class stadium.

The news conference will take place Tuesday, Sept. 16, at 9 a.m. at Scotiabank Place's Gate 1 entrance.

Melnyk will be joined by SSE chief executive officer Roy Mlakar and chief operating officer Cyril Leeder. Members from all levels of the National Capital Region's soccer community have also been invited.


I'm not liking the sounds of this guys. I can just see Melnyk making his presentation at scotiabank place, pointing off to some desolate field between Kanata and Stittsville, and naming it the new home of the Ottawa Senators FC. While I would settle for a team anywhere in the city, this stadium belongs in the core. Tuesday we'll know for sure.

[m0nkyman]

As for location....

It's obvious to me where it should be. (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.404137,-75.710204&spn=0.002851,0.006936&t=h&z=18)

A man can dream, can't he?

[Deez]

BAYVIEW YARDS

But I'm betting on Kanata West....maybe in the floodplain ( :rolleyes: )?

[adam-machiavelli]

I'm all for it as long as the stadium is inside the Greenbelt.

[fireicedog]

Whoever had bets on kanata looks to be the winner.

Melnyk plans soccer stadium for Kanata

By BRUCE GARRIOCH, Sun Media

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk will officially kick off his campaign to bring Major League Soccer to Ottawa next week by unveiling plans for a new 20,000-plus-seat stadium in Kanata.

While the Senators will be reporting for training camp, Melnyk has called a news conference for Tuesday at Scotiabank Place, where he’ll show off his plans to bring an MLS expansion team to the city.

Included in the bid for the squad, that likely wouldn’t play here before 2011, is Melnyk’s plan to build a state-of-the-art soccer stadium, which sources say will be in Kanata in close proximity to Scotiabank Place on land he already owns.

According to the demands made by the MLS in its requirements for expansion teams, all soccer facilities must have 22,000 30,000 seats.

Since Melnyk has no choice but to meet that demand, the facility will be similar — but bigger than — the 20,000-seat BMO Field which houses the Toronto FC franchise, which is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.


While the bid will be worth in excess of $40 million, there’s a lot of work to do before a franchise is awarded to Ottawa. Since Melnyk is willing to front the cash, there won't be any concerns about building the stadium.

The MLS — a 14-team league where many of the franchises are losing money — is looking to expand to 20 teams. Seattle has been granted a franchise for next year and Philadelphia will join the league in 2010.

Melnyk isn’t the only Canadian bidder in the hunt for a club. Vancouver and Montreal — both strong soccer venues in the past — have already made their interest known and will get strong consideration.

All three cities will be battling the U.S. bidders from Atlanta, Portland, Miami, Las Vegas and St. Louis. There’s also talk a group led by the owners of major league baseball’s Mets is trying to get a second MLS franchise in New York.

There have been suggestions the new stadium could also house the CFL expansion team that 67’s owner Jeff Hunt is fronting with a group of local real estate investors, including Roger Greenberg, John Ruddy and William Shenkman.

Hunt is preparing to make an announcement of his own on plans for redevelopment of Lansdowne Park in the next couple of weeks. That bid is a little more complicated because it needs city backing before becoming reality.

“I don’t know anything more than anybody else,” Hunt said yesterday. “I’m waiting to hear what the announcement will be. Until we can fully grasp what (Melnyk’s) proposing, it’s difficult to make a comment.

“Obviously, Eugene believes Ottawa is a world-class sports city. He’s showing great confidence in the Ottawa sports market.”

Hunt said he has not talked to Melnyk about the bid.

“We have not had any meaningful discussions. We’re open to the MLS being here, of course. We’re proposing a world-class sports and entertainment venue. The more (the facility is used) the more successful the venture will be.

“Our group is moving forward with the process to revitalize Lansdowne. Our bid will be submitted in the coming weeks. I think people will be excited.”

[adam-machiavelli]

Close Lansdowne and open Kanata West.....Oh dear god.

[jchamoun79]

Close Lansdowne and open Kanata West.....Oh dear god.

I can't really blame Melnyk here. If I had his money, I wouldn't want to deal with the Glebe NIMBYs, or our loser city council, either.

[m0nkyman]

booo.

Kanata is too far for this urban boy to go watch sports...

[Ottawade]

I'm slowly turning into the Ottawa board pessimist/doomsday'er and that troubles me for multiple reasons, but I have to say it: It's telling of the overall mindset of development in this town that a geographically fringe area of the city that's mainly comprised of uninspired housing and large monolithic box stores woven together over great distances with a "drivers only" infrastructure tops the list as the most attractive place for someone to build what is intended as a city-wide entertainment facility. The kind that can kindle city spirit, night life and lots of pedestrian traffic in a part of town where the two former are almost non-existent. And its not because there is a shortage of real-estate or potential locations in this city.

[Acajack]

I don't like what this smells like, cause it smells a lot like Kanata.

Funny how this sounds like a decision straight out of the 70s, as opposed to the trend these 21st century days which seems to be towards new pro sports facilities being located in central areas of cities. Pretty much every new baseball park built in the past 10 or 15 years has been in a downtown or close to it. Even tragically blighted Detroit's NFL team moved back downtown after many years of exile in the suburbs at the Pontiac Silverdome, and the NBA New Jersey Nets are slated to move to Brooklyn within two or three years.

I sure hope that when this becomes a matter of debate that we won't get the usual boneheaded argument that there's just no room in central Ottawa for a stadium (even if they don't pick the Lansdowne site). Hey, if they find room to build new skyscrapers in Manhattan (which they do), I think there's ample room for a smallish (by North American standards) stadium in central Ottawa.

[Cre47]

Maybe Eugene wants rail to Kanata as well. Wondering if this stadium would be suitable for football. If so and if CFL returns to Ottawa, it might very well possible that the new home would be this stadium in Kanata.


Melnyk unveils soccer bid
MLS team would play in 30,000 seat Kanata stadium

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk has officially launched his bid to bring a Major League Soccer franchise to Canada’s capital. Melnyk unveiled his plans at a news conference today.

The 14-team league is set to expand by two with Seattle joining in 2009 and Philadelphia in 2010.

Two more teams will be added the following year and MLS commissioner Don Garber announced in July that Ottawa was among nine cities in the running. Vancouver and Montreal are also in the mix.

In addition to fronting a US$40-million expansion fee, Melnyk’s Senators Sports and Entertainment group unveiled plans for a new stadium that would seat up to 30,000.

It would be built in the Ottawa suburb of Kanata, just down the road from the Senators home arena Scotiabank Place.


The stadium’s development is contingent on the franchise. The deadline for applications for the MLS is Oct. 15.

[c_speed3108]

The idea of it on city owned land is somewhat interesting...


Melnyk's plan
Sens owner wants to build soccer stadium near Scotiabank Place for MLS team
Richard Starnes, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Tuesday, September 16, 2008

OTTAWA - Eugene Melnyk unveiled plans today to build a $100-million soccer stadium on city-owned land near Scotiabank Place.

Melnyk is bidding for a $40-million Major League Soccer franchise for the 2011 season and wants to build a soccer-specific stadium on 30 acres the city uses for a snow dump off Palladium Drive, southeast of the hockey arena.
The stadium would seat up to 30,000 and would be natural grass. Melnyk indicated he would be talking to corporations and all levels of government for support.

The Melnyk group will operate along the same lines as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns the NHL Maple Leafs, the NBA Raptors and Toronto FC, Canada's only MLS franchise. But the soccer franchise will be run as a separate entity except for mutually beneficial cross-marketing initiatives.

This is the system operated in Toronto, where Toronto FC has virtually sold out every home game since its MLS inception in the spring of 2007.

Linking soccer and hockey franchises is not restricted to Toronto and Ottawa. The same organization owns the Los Angeles Kings and soccer's L.A. Galaxy and co-owns the Houston Dynamo. The same goes for the Avalanche and the Rapids in Colorado.

BMO Field in Toronto, a soccer-specific 20,000-seater, was built on the site of the Exhibition Place stadium. Funding for the $72-million project was diverse. The federal government contributed $27 million, the province $8 million, MLSE $18 million and the City of Toronto $9.8 million. The city owns the facility, which is built on city land, and MLSE operates it.

MLS commissioner Don Garber has yet to make it clear either how much the league intends to grow or how fast. Seattle will join next season and Philadelphia in 2010, bringing the total to 16. Garber has announced that two more franchises will be granted in 2011 and has hinted at a total of 24 teams in the future.

Ottawa is now in the running along with Montreal and Vancouver. They will be competing against five U.S. cities - Atlanta, Las Vegas, Portland, St. Louis and a second team in New York - backed by the New York Mets.


© The Ottawa Citizen 2008

[Mille Sabords]

If we're going to talk about public land, then use the NCC non-park at Preston and Carling (between Carling and Dow's Lake). That's where it should go.

Sigh. What a dilemma. Like the NHL, I'd rather have a team than no team, but the prospect of trekking out to the boondocks every game is depressing.

[c_speed3108]

If we're going to talk about public land, then use the NCC non-park at Preston and Carling (between Carling and Dow's Lake). That's where it should go.

Sigh. What a dilemma. Like the NHL, I'd rather have a team than no team, but the prospect of trekking out to the boondocks every game is depressing.


I can think of another snow dump I like better....:tup:

[harls]

Website:

www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca

Some renderings are on the site.

[eemy]

Send in your comments regarding the location at the link Harls posted. The rendering looks impressive, but then I look at the context and my heart sinks a little. I think Bayview would be an excellent location - there's plenty of land, fantastic transit access, pretty decent road access considering its location, its central, its adjacent to Little Italy as well as Mechanicsville, meaning plenty of places for people to go party after they kick some ass... :banana:

Oh wait... :(

[kingcobra]

Maybe Eugene wants rail to Kanata as well. Wondering if this stadium would be suitable for football. If so and if CFL returns to Ottawa, it might very well possible that the new home would be this stadium in Kanata.

If the Ottawa CFL team plans to play in Kanata, I rather not bother to buy season tickets. The Frank St. Clair Stadium is the perfect location because of its history and amenities. I had been one of the Renegades season ticket holders for two seasons since I lived closer to the stadium. It was just a perfect convenience for me and my friends.

Don't be surprised that Clive Douche wants Jeff Hunt and his crew to put their team in Kanata.

[lrt's friend]

I was a football season ticket holder for a number of years and I will definitely not be interested if the stadium is that far in the west end. As it is, I don't like going to Scotiabank Place, no matter how nice the facility is, because there is no easy way to get there and it takes too long. Either you face major traffic jams and often wait forever to get out of the parking lot, or stand on a bus half way across the city or use a bar shuttle and have to deal with people who have had too much to drink. I can't imagine what the traffic would be like to go to an even larger sports facility, and we are years away from seeing any sort of decent rapid transit connection, especially to my part of the city. The other thing I don't like about the location is that it is in the middle of nowhere with few convenient choices for a meal and the fact that there are no alternatives to expensive pay parking, in the event, that you do drive.

Lansdowne Park is quite convenient for me, and I always enjoyed the very scenic walk from my favourite free parking location. When I have used transit, especially to the Grey Cup with its 50,000+ fans, the trip is relatively short and worked well unlike the lengthy journey to Kanata.

While Toronto and Montreal place their major sports facilities in a central location, where you can enjoy the city before and after a game, and have decent transportation choices, we continue to focus on putting our most important facilities out in the middle of nowhere. Remember how Sens Mile was located half way across the city from Scotiabank Place during the Sens 2007 cup run. It would have been so much better if you could have walked out of the arena and taken part in the festivities.

[clynnog]

If the Ottawa CFL team plans to play in Kanata, I rather not bother to buy season tickets. The Frank St. Clair Stadium is the perfect location because of its history and amenities. I had been one of the Renegades season ticket holders for two seasons since I lived closer to the stadium. It was just a perfect convenience for me and my friends.

Don't be surprised that Clive Douche wants Jeff Hunt and his crew to put their team in Kanata.


Clive Doucet and Jeff Hunt and his gang don't strike me as buds in this one.

In terms of the MLS franchise buiding at that location may ease some of the strain in the west end on quality pitches for youth to play on....Kanata SC have been trying to get land to the south and east of the Kanata park n' ride from the NCC (good luck on that one) for years now for a number of pitches...this may help that situation out.

[Acajack]

Not that it should be the major consideration (although we are between one quarter and one third of this region’s market) but a stadium in Kanata will also ensure that you’re repeating in soccer the Canadiens vs. Senators hockey dichotomy on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River. (It also existed when Ottawa had teams in the CFL, with the Alouettes being quite popular in the Outaouais - and they still are today.)

Of course, Ottawa sports teams will always have to contend with the dominance of Montreal-based, Quebec-wide francophone media (especially sports network RDS) in the Gatineau market, but they would have a better shot at giving the Montreal teams a run for their money in the minds of the Gatinois if their venues were a little bit closer to the Ottawa River.

[m0nkyman]

Send in your comments regarding the location at the link Harls posted. The rendering looks impressive, but then I look at the context and my heart sinks a little. I think Bayview would be an excellent location - there's plenty of land, fantastic transit access, pretty decent road access considering its location, its central, its adjacent to Little Italy as well as Mechanicsville, meaning plenty of places for people to go party after they kick some ass... :banana:

Oh wait... :(

I sent my comment in.

[adam-machiavelli]

I'll support building this thing in Kanata only if Melnyk pays for ALL servicing costs including transit, specifically a fully underground subway line all the way from downtown to his stadium.

[Acajack]

I can’t find any indication that 67's owner and future CFL club owner Jeff Hunt was in any way involved in this today. So it looks as though two stadium projects (CFL at Lansdowne and MLS in Kanata) are going ahead separately at this time.

[lrt's friend]

I sent my comment in telling him to find a central location for his stadium. Mr. Melnyk fails to understand this city's ongoing discontent with the location of Scotiabank Place, because it has been masked by the Senators great success since moving there.

[YOWflier]

I'm quite clearly on the record as hating Kanata/suburbs for something like a sports stadium. I hate the location of Scotiabank Place too but it doesn't stop me from going to Sens games. I think it's just plain pathetic for someone to base support of a franchise on a stadium's location. Sadly there's too many people in this town like that (look no further than this thread), which is why Ottawa has trouble growing up and seemingly never will.

[lrt's friend]

I can’t find any indication that 67's owner and future CFL club owner Jeff Hunt was in any way involved in this today. So it looks as though two stadium projects (CFL at Lansdowne and MLS in Kanata) are going ahead separately at this time.

Economic forces should lead the two projects to merge. We don't need 2 similar sized stadiums, both used only a small number of times per year.

[YOWflier]

I'm quite clearly on the record as hating Kanata/suburbs for something like a sports stadium. I hate the location of Scotiabank Place too but it doesn't stop me from going to Sens games. I think it's just plain pathetic for someone to base support of a franchise on a stadium's location. Sadly there's too many people in this town like that (look no further than this thread), which is why Ottawa has trouble growing up and seemingly never will.I'm quoting myself to prove a point. Look at this piece of work I read on a sports forum:

Ugh.

Enough with the 'world-class' crap.

Ian, thanks for the article.

I've been an Ottawa resident closing on 40 years and I've stayed in Ottawa for one reason:

Small-town feel with enough commodities and commerce that it feels 'medium to big'.

Why the heck do we need soccer here? Or a new stadium? I'm going to be pissed as hell if any of my tax dollars go into that dump.

So we don't have a 'world class outdoor stadium'. WE also don't have a space shuttle launch pad, a casino (excluding Gatineau), a NBA team, a MLB team, an NFL team...

We're Ottawa Eugene. We're a small town.

I'm not going to support your Soccer team, I *will* support the local hockey teams though.

Non-hockey stuff doesn't work in Ottawa. Riders gone, Renegades gone, Lynx gone, poor attendance to Rapidz, Lacrosse gone, limited crowds for MMA.

Oh well, hopefully this blows up in Melnyk's face so he understands the culture and nature of the town.

There's only one way to deal with people like this ... you can use your imagination.

[Acajack]

While I can see ac888yow’s point, the reality remains.

And if you’re stuck in traffic for half an hour (or maybe more) after a game at Scotiabank Place, then the difference in drive time for someone from eastern Gatineau (or even in Orleans, Cumberland, Rockland, etc.) between going to a Canadiens’ game in Montreal or a Senators’ game in Kanata isn’t really that great. (For some reason, it always seems to be really easy to get out of downtown Montreal after games there.)

[lrt's friend]

I'm quite clearly on the record as hating Kanata/suburbs for something like a sports stadium. I hate the location of Scotiabank Place too but it doesn't stop me from going to Sens games. I think it's just plain pathetic for someone to base support of a franchise on a stadium's location. Sadly there's too many people in this town like that (look no further than this thread), which is why Ottawa has trouble growing up and seemingly never will.

Why would you say this? It is not just the people to blame but also poor small town planning. We shouldn't plan major facilities to be difficult to get to. Other cities recognize this. I try to support our community as much as my time and budget permits. Just don't make it so hard to support it. Now is the time to tell Mr. Melnyk to locate a major stadium in a more convenient location before it is too late. I don't see why this is wrong. He needs to hear this from potential fans.

[lrt's friend]

For some reason, it always seems to be really easy to get out of downtown Montreal after games there.)

It only makes sense. The transportation system, whether roads, subways or buses, are all designed to handle peak period loads from downtown. This explains why it is so easy to get away from a downtown Montreal game.

[YOWflier]

Why would you say this? It is not just the people to blame but also poor small town planning. We shouldn't plan major facilities to be difficult to get to. Other cities recognize this. I try to support our community as much as my time and budget permits. Just don't make it so hard to support it. Now is the time to tell Mr. Melnyk to locate a major stadium in a more convenient location before it is too late. I don't see why this is wrong. He needs to hear this from potential fans.Read what I said once again ... carefully. I never said you need to or should like it. By all means let your opinion be known and hope that by some miracle it changes.

Now let's fast forward a few years. Suppose the bid is approved and Kanata is the location. Will you suck it up and support the team, or will you use the lousy location as the reason for not attending?

[m0nkyman]

I think it's just plain pathetic for someone to base support of a franchise on a stadium's location. Sadly there's too many people in this town like that (look no further than this thread), which is why Ottawa has trouble growing up and seemingly never will.

Sorry, but I won't go to the suburbs for a game, for political reasons (both environmentally and in terms of urban planning), and for personal reasons (an hour each way is too much time to waste).

That isn't small town thinking. Putting a sports location on the edge of town makes sense for a small town; for a big city it's inane.

[YOWflier]

I know. People like you are the problem in this town.

[lrt's friend]

Read what I said once again ... carefully. I never said you need to or should like it. By all means let your opinion be known and hope that by some miracle it changes.

Now let's fast forward a few years. Suppose the bid is approved and Kanata is the location. Will you suck it up and support the team, or will you use the lousy location as the reason for not attending?

Well no, I am not the type to on principle not support a team on this basis, but it is always in the back of my mind about how a pain in the neck it is to get there and how late it will be by the time I get home, so it may affect how often I go.

[YOWflier]

But won't we have a shiny new transitway to take us out there by then? It's currently a pain in the butt, however isn't that going to improve?

[lrt's friend]

But won't we have a shiny new transitway to take us out there by then? It's currently a pain in the butt, however isn't that going to improve?

The planned rapid transit system will take you downtown. I live near the airport, so the bus will continue to be hung up in traffic. This is why I am not enthused by the Ottawa River Parkway route as the only rapid transit route to the west end. It will continue to be difficult to go anywhere in the west end by transit from where I live
.

[m0nkyman]

I know. People like you are the problem in this town.

:notacrook:

[Acajack]

I have shared season tickets with groups of friends for the Senators in the past but at the moment I do not attend NHL games regularly, be they in Ottawa or Montreal. When I do go, it can be in one city or the other, but that’s not so much a function of arena location (about 1 hour more to see the Habs from where I live) but rather the fact that these days an NHL game for me is a splurge, so I’m more likely to go down to Montreal to see my #1 team than to Kanata to see my #2 team.

My opposition to the Kanata location(s) is both from an urban planning perspective and also from a business perspective (location-location-location) that says that any business has to be as easily accessible to as many people as possible. Now, I know that a competitive NHL hockey club in Canada is an exclusive product that many people will go out their way to buy into, but I’ve always wondered what might happen when the team becomes less competitive…

[YOWflier]

:notacrook:Yes! Be proud!

[YOWflier]

The planned rapid transit system will take you downtown. I live near the airport, so the bus will continue to be hung up in traffic. This is why I am not enthused by the Ottawa River Parkway route as the only rapid transit route to the west end. It will continue to be difficult to go anywhere in the west end by transit from where I live
.So what's all the construction on the edge of the westbound 417 then? Are they not extending BRT out to Kanata with that?

I haven't been following the forum much lately ...

[Mille Sabords]

Read what I said once again ... carefully. I never said you need to or should like it. By all means let your opinion be known and hope that by some miracle it changes.

Now let's fast forward a few years. Suppose the bid is approved and Kanata is the location. Will you suck it up and support the team, or will you use the lousy location as the reason for not attending?

Personally, I will suck it up and support the home team. But that's because I'm a soccer nut and I'm stoked about the idea of MLS coming here.

What's the sports forum where you got that quote from "Some Moron"?

[Acajack]

If it’s in Kanata I will likely go to see the Ottawa MLS as often as I go see the Sens: once in a blue moon. If it were more centrally-located (Lansdowne, Bayview), I’d likely go more often as I did when the Rough Riders/Renegades were around or during the U20 World Cup. Not so much as a matter of principle, but just because it’s much, much less of a hassle to get there for a game from where I live and work.

Anyway, it doesn’t look like the Sens are really suffering from the lack of patronage from yours truly, so maybe they’re right and I’m wrong.

[lrt's friend]

So what's all the construction on the edge of the westbound 417 then? Are they not extending BRT out to Kanata with that?

I haven't been following the forum much lately ...

Yes, this may eventually help a bit, but the trip between Baseline and Greenboro is not planned to be improved for decades and will never be really rapid transit even then. Whether I drive or take transit to Scotiabank Place, it is unpleasant, and the transit improvements for me will be modest. I loved taking the 400 series bus one time, when they sent us on the milk run, to deliver all the stragglers.

[lrt's friend]

As I have said, there is pent up frustration with the location of Scotiabank Place and it is more than just small town attitudes that explain it. Can you imagine Toronto placing Rogers Centre or Skydome or whatever its called now in Brampton or Oshawa? It amounts to about the same thing. The central location and the distance from Scotiabank Place is one factor explaining the success of the Ottawa 67s.

[Acajack]

It only makes sense. The transportation system, whether roads, subways or buses, are all designed to handle peak period loads from downtown. This explains why it is so easy to get away from a downtown Montreal game.

Whereas the transportation system around the Palladium Drive was primarily built for traditional pendular suburb-to-downtown commuting patterns and wasn't at all planned to accommodate a major sporting and entertainment destination like Scotiabank Place, and even less Scotiabank Place PLUS a 30,000-seat stadium next door.

In those places in the U.S. where you have a suburban concentration of pro sports facilities (the Meadowlands, Arrowhead and Royals stadiums in Kansas City), usually there is significant transportation infrastructure (at the very least the presence of several multi-lane highways) in place to deal with the traffic.

I know that MTO are expanding the Queensway around Kanata at the moment but even with the improvements there will still really only be one highway out of this area towards where 95+% of the patrons have to head home to.

[Kitchissippi]

I think Hurdman would be the most awesome location for a sports complex. There's more than enough room there for a stadium, pool and arena, etc. It is an underused transit hub, convenient to the Queensway and between the universities. Link the university sports facilities along with Lynx stadium, and we could have a set of venues that could easily hold something like the Commonwealth or Pan-American Games.

We should just give up on Lansdowne and build the reverse of London's Olympic stadium at Hurdman: a stadium for 25,000 that can be expanded to triple if the need arises.

[Acajack]

While I can appreciate that a businessman like Mr. Melnyk would want to have all of his pro sports interests concentrated in the same area, that doesn’t mean that he (or anyone else) can build whatever he wants wherever he wants just because he has the money to do it. You can’t build a huge mall or a strip joint on Acacia Ave. in Rockcliffe Park just because you’ve got the cash.

Furthermore, I was under the impression that one of the reasons for the merger of the RMOC municipalities into a single city was to avoid bad planning decisions, and that such decisions would be made in the best interests of the entire city.

Although the news articles say that the proposed Kanata stadium site is “city-owned land”, I can’t really imagine the bunch of people who run Ottawa saying no to the scheme, in spite of the fact that it goes against all sound principles of city-building.

[YOWflier]

Personally, I will suck it up and support the home team. But that's because I'm a soccer nut and I'm stoked about the idea of MLS coming here.That's the spirit I'm looking for more of. I'm also a soccer nut and would love to get a team. That trumps any feelings I have about the lousy location.

And even if I wasn't a soccer nut I'd support this. I am able to look past the bid flaws and recognize the benefit this would bring to the city. Business, tourism, civic pride ... you name it.

What's the sports forum where you got that quote from "Some Moron"?I follow the Sportsnet forums found here (http://forums.sportsnet.ca/index.jspa). That particular quote was taken from the bottom of the article found here (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2008/09/16/melnyk_mls_bid/).

[waterloowarrior]

on the CBC story's comments (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/09/16/melnyk-mls-bid.html#socialcomments) there are many similar thoughts about the poor location of the proposed stadium.

[waterloowarrior]

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-1-lg.jpg

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-2-lg.jpg

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-3-lg.jpg

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-4-lg.jpg

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-5-lg.jpg

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/images/stadium/stadium-6-lg.jpg

Stadium development and design narrative
Site

The 38-acre site is adjacent to Scotiabank Place, west of Ottawa’s downtown core and is easily accessible from the Queensway (Highway 417). The stadium is situated to maximize the synergy from having two professional sports facilities in close proximity. The front door is positioned to face Palladium Drive, which is envisioned as becoming an urban main street, providing a link between the two anchor venues and a variety of activities and uses. [big box stores, large parking lots, suburban office park, a gas station, and car dealerships :D ]

The stadium is orientated north-south to minimize potential negative effects of sun on the playing field.

A training field is provided that matches the conditions of the main pitch. Four additional practice fields are provided for community use.

There is a large inventory of more than 7,000 existing surface parking spaces near the stadium at Scotiabank Place. An additional 360 parking spaces will be provided in close proximity to the stadium for VIP, player and team personnel use.

The stadium

The stadium’s architectural design will express the tradition and emotional connection felt in Europe’s most storied venues, while contributing to the team’s ability to establish a sense of excitement for Major League Soccer
(MLS) in Ottawa.

Materials reflective of Ottawa’s established architectural language will be used to establish tradition and prominence. The roof canopy provides a second opportunity to make an architectural statement that is unique to Ottawa, as we have seen with MLS stadiums in Utah, California, Colorado and Illinois. The goal is to have viewers on TV and those driving past to immediately associate the stadium with Ottawa.

The total seating capacity of the stadium will range from 20,000 to 30,000. With the addition of field seating, concert capacity should be a minimum of 28,000. The stadium’s intimate design brings fans close to the action and places them in a friendly, family-oriented atmosphere. For sporting events and concerts, spectators are provided with the best possible sightlines and seating comfort. Views from all seats are unobstructed, with sightlines appropriate for a multipurpose stadium.

All general seating areas will have a backrest for comfortable viewing, and club seating areas are provided with a larger and more comfortable seat. The club seating section is accessible from a private VIP entrance also used by the stadium’s suite holders.

The 26 luxury suites, provided on two levels on the stadium’s west side, are comprised of 21 typical size suites and five party-sized. In addition, there are six stage suites that double as greenrooms for concerts and special events, bringing the total number of suites to 32.

The pitch is a 70x110-metre natural grass field designed to MLS and FIFA specifications, yet can also meet the needs of football, rugby and the area’s many soccer leagues. The field lighting system will provide at least the minimum foot-candle level required by the MLS and FIFA broadcasting standards. A sub-surface drainage and heating system will provide for aximum playability no matter the weather condition.

The stadium is arranged in a way that promotes flexibility. The conjoined stage structure provides the ability to reconfigure the stadium into a world-class concert venue in less than a day. The audio-visual system will be designed according to the MLS standards for broadcast media, including the required camera positions and broadcast facilities for radio, TV and the writing press.

[waterloowarrior]

$100M vision
Sens owner wants to build soccer stadium near Scotiabank Place

Richard Starnes
The Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, September 16, 2008

OTTAWA - When you hear "a whole lot of screaming going on" and you are as inquisitive as Eugene Melnyk, you ask questions.

It happened one Saturday last year as the Ottawa Senators owner was driving past BMO Field in downtown Toronto.

"What's that?" he asked his driver.

"That's a Toronto FC game," came the reply.

"How are they doing? Is this for real?"

"Sell out every game."

Fast forward to tuesday morning at Ottawa's Scotiabank Place and you find the same Eugene Melnyk telling a packed news conference that next month he will bid for a 2011 Major League Soccer franchise and would put it in a spanking new $100-million, 30,000-seat soccer-specific stadium.

What's more, the stadium, earmarked for land southeast of Scotiabank Place that the city presently operates as a snow dump, could house another Ottawa franchise - the Canadian Football League. :doh:

The question of what to do with Lansdowne Park, whether or not to restore the site or rebuild to allow for a new CFL team, has been on the city's mind for some time. The Senators' chief operating officer, Cyril Leeder, believes he has a good option.

"If this wasn't going on, the city would be going through the same process as us," said Leeder. "They would be discussing, 'How and where do we build a new stadium?' We think we have a way we can help.'"

Late tuesday, there was encouraging news for Leeder, who had earlier admitted the city site was the only place being considered for the stadium.

Mayor Larry O'Brien said he would certainly not stand in the way.

"Ultimately, this would be a council decision, but I feel very comfortable taking to council a proposal which would end up with the land being our contribution to the new stadium," he said.

"There are 60,000 registered players in Ottawa and Gatineau. That's a pretty good base. There are a lot of soccer moms and dads out there."

One absolute MLS requirement for a new franchise is a soccer-specific venue, and Matt Rossetti, the architect for the new stadium, is well aware of the need to respect that.

"The soccer-specific requirement is our No. 1 goal," he said. "But it's technically feasible to have a soccer-specific stadium and still have it work very well for the CFL."

The stadium Rossetti's team is designing would have seating on three sides, close to the action. One end of the stadium would be built as a stage for multi-purpose outdoor entertainment.

"We can either remove that stage completely or make it retractable," said Rossetti. "It certainly could be rolled back to make room for football end zones and then rolled back for soccer."

There is even a solution to the difficulty of a mass of lines all over the field to accommodate both sports. Leeder was in Dallas recently, where soccer and NFL franchises share a field.

"It's crazy, but the hardest part is dealing with the lines," said Leeder. "We went out on the field in Dallas and they showed us this very new paint that washes off. You water it and it washes away."

To meet MLS requirements, the natural grass stadium must seat at least 20,000. Melnyk, mindful of the prospect of any upcoming bid for this country to stage a future Women's World Cup, is planning for 30,000 because that is the minimum requirement of FIFA, the world soccer body that runs world tournaments.

The plan also calls for five fields adjacent to the stadium to complete a soccer complex that could be used by the community and for pro team practice.

To fund the $140-million project - $100 million for the stadium and a $40-million franchise fee - Melnyk will be actively seeking financial support from federal and provincial governments, he will be talking to corporations for investment and he is already in preliminary discussions with the city about the land.

An upbeat Melnyk suggested it was novel timing to announce the bid and the stadium plan with the Senators' National Hockey League team beginnining training camp the next day.

However, while hockey is Canada's game, soccer is the world's game, he said, and he wants to bring the world game to the national capital.

"Two hundred and four countries competed in the World Cup," he said. "I can't even name 204 countries."

He pointed out that Ottawa is a G8 country and that every other G8 country has a world- class stadium in its capital.

"We don't have a properly functioning stadium and we deserve one," he said.

Before a shovel goes into the ground, the Melnyk group must win the franchise. Currently, there are 14 MLS teams, including Toronto FC, which sells out its 20,000-seat soccer-specific BMO Field every time it plays. Seattle will be added next season and Philadelphia in 2010.

MLS has announced it will be increasing its number by two in 2011. Besides Ottawa, there are eight other cities in the running for those spots, including Montreal and Vancouver, both of whom already have teams in the United States League, the pro league one step down from MLS.

Time is short.

Franchise bids must be in by Oct. 15 and Ottawa has come to the game late. Leeder was not phased by the timeline, pointing out the organization had been working on a bid for months.

Linking an existing sports franchise with a soccer franchise is not unusual. in Toronto, the NHL's Maple Leafs, the National Basketball Association's Raptors and the FC are under one umbrella, and the same organization owns the NHL's Los Angeles Kings, soccer's L.A. Galaxy, and co-owns the Houston Dynamo, also of the MLS. The same goes for the NHL's Avalanche and soccer's Rapids in Colorado.

After tuesday's news conference, Melnyk said that even if he did not win a 2011 franchise, he would not give up.

"We bid for the junior hockey world championships three times before we got it at the fourth attempt," he said. "This is going to happen. We will go on until we get a franchise. It will happen."

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f222d1f9-f3f0-4f5e-988a-ce927ec79177

Sounds like if you oppose this proposal you should be sending letters to your councillor to promote a central location like Bayview.... right now they are only looking at the City site, so perhaps the City can persuade them to take this investment to a better location.

I went to BMO last summer and I think the central location was a key reason for it's success, or at least was a huge part of its appeal. You have an amazing view of the skyline while watching the game. Biking and walking to the game was quite popular, many others were taking the streetcar, and GO Transit was right there. My friend and I had a beer and then walked to the game (and had beer during the game! :D) and didn't have to worry about driving home right after, because there was plenty to do after the game (e.g. go for a walk, restaurants, parks, etc) while waiting for any effects to wear off.. A stadium in Milton would not have been the same IMO.

[c_speed3108]

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f222d1f9-f3f0-4f5e-988a-ce927ec79177

Sounds like if you oppose this proposal you should be sending letters to your councillor to promote a central location like Bayview.... right now they are only looking at the City site, so perhaps the City can persuade them to take this investment to a better location.

I went to BMO last summer and I think the central location was a key reason for it's success, or at least was a huge part of its appeal. You have an amazing view of the skyline while watching the game. Biking and walking to the game was quite popular, many others were taking the streetcar, and GO Transit was right there. My friend and I had a beer and then walked to the game (and had beer during the game! :D) and didn't have to worry about driving home right after, because there was plenty to do after the game (e.g. go for a walk, restaurants, parks, etc) while waiting for any effects to wear off.. A stadium in Milton would not have been the same IMO.

I think this is a good sign. To me there was two main comments to this plan:

1) What about CFL?

2) Does it have to be in Kanata?

We are seeing changes wrt #1....now we just have to work at #2. I am sure there will be lots of letters in the newspaper wrt that issue.

:)

[AuxTown]

The location sucks, but that stadium looks awesome! I would love to see something like that at Lansdowne for the MLS and CFL teams. All we need is for the city to get their heads out of their asses and realize that Lansdowne is an absolute useless dump in its current state and is better off in the hands of private business. Not that I hate the idea of publicly-owned facilities, but there's way too much public scrutiny (rightly so) over how the city spends its money to get anything half decent constructed.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

The location sucks, but that stadium looks awesome! I would love to see something like that at Lansdowne for the MLS and CFL teams. All we need is for the city to get their heads out of their asses and realize that Lansdowne is an absolute useless dump in its current state and is better off in the hands of private business. Not that I hate the idea of publicly-owned facilities, but there's way too much public scrutiny (rightly so) over how the city spends its money to get anything half decent constructed.

:tup:


And yeah, that stadium looks pretty awesome. So does the club's logo. :)

[Cre47]

Quite frankly, if it fails, the number one reason would have to be the location. Personally, I would have hope it would started to remove part of the eyesore that is Lebreton Flats.

[Deez]

Hahaha well it looks like I called it....right in the middle of the floodplain! Those rec fields could be underwater once every few spring seasons.

I'm extremely excited about the possibility of getting an MLS franchise, but the location (obviously) leaves a lot to be desired. The fact that the marketing group had the audacity to claim that they envisaged Palladium Drive as an urban main street is absolutely laughable. There are so many prime city-owned sites...Bayview, Hurdman, the Lees Ave snow dump, the City Centre site, etc.

I was recently at BMO field for the Canada-Jamaica world cup qualifying match. Before the match we (about 1000 of us) paraded through the streets of Queen W. and King W. en route to the stadium, drawing attention wherever we went. Somehow, I don't see a march from Home Depot being quite as effective.

In my opinion, a downtown sports venue has the huge advantage of being able to attract "marginal" fans when a franchise is starting out. These are people that don't have the sport at the top of their list, but they might try it out as "something to do" on a sort of spur-of-the-moment basis; generally these will be younger people. The greater the franchise's exposure to this audience the better, as it will increase the probability that they will build their more serious fan base. The problem is that if your sports facility is inaccessible to marginal fans, you will have a much harder time building that legitimate fan base.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Hahaha well it looks like I called it....right in the middle of the floodplain! Those rec fields could be underwater once every few spring seasons.

I'm extremely excited about the possibility of getting an MLS franchise, but the location (obviously) leaves a lot to be desired. The fact that the marketing group had the audacity to claim that they envisaged Palladium Drive as an urban main street is absolutely laughable. There are so many prime city-owned sites...Bayview, Hurdman, the Lees Ave snow dump, the City Centre site, etc.

I was recently at BMO field for the Canada-Jamaica world cup qualifying match. Before the match we (about 1000 of us) paraded through the streets of Queen W. and King W. en route to the stadium, drawing attention wherever we went. Somehow, I don't see a march from Home Depot being quite as effective.

In my opinion, a downtown sports venue has the huge advantage of being able to attract "marginal" fans when a franchise is starting out. These are people that don't have the sport at the top of their list, but they might try it out as "something to do" on a sort of spur-of-the-moment basis; generally these will be younger people. The greater the franchise's exposure to this audience the better, as it will increase the probability that they will build their more serious fan base. The problem is that if your sports facility is inaccessible to marginal fans, you will have a much harder time building that legitimate fan base.

That's a distinct possibility.

Also, most avid soccer fans in this city are either young people such as myself or new immigrants to Ottawa/Canada. As if games weren't expensive enough, but it truly is a pain to get out and see a game. Especially for people living in Orleans.

[Acajack]

I will agree with those who have said that the proposed stadium looks awesome.

One thing I noted in the articles I’ve read is that Eugene Melnyk says he will pay the franchise fee himself (and actually getting an MLS team for Ottawa is still a longshot, let’s not forget), but that he will be looking for financial help from governments (city, provincial, federal) to build his stadium on city-owned land. Judging from the $100-million numbers he’s throwing around, this stadium would be almost $30 million more expensive than BMO Field in Toronto, and more than twice as expensive as Saputo’s in Montreal, though both of these are quite a bit smaller than what he is proposing for Ottawa.

So, given the governmental involvement that is being sought, there is still some hope for a more central location for this baby.

Also, I was surprised at how the location of the stadium has been the major focus of discussion on the Internet “comments” pages, in newspaper articles this morning, etc. Either they’ve been flooded with SSP people, or there are more people out there than we think who care about a vibrant central city.

[TransitZilla]

The stadium looks good, but it would look even better with the canal on one side and Bank St. on the other.

It's really unfortunate that Melnyk could not have worked together with Hunt & Co. We only need one major outdoor stadium and it needs to be downtown.

I think most of Ottawa realizes that the locaiton of Scotiabank Place was a mistake and I really hope it is not repeated.

[YOWflier]

Let us hope that the parties involved can reach an agreement to move the stadium to a more central location. One challenge with doing that is finding a plot of central land large enough, because as is obvious by the site plan they want to have another 4-6 fields adjacent to the main stadium so that they could host large tournaments.

[Acajack]

Let us hope that the parties involved can reach an agreement to move the stadium to a more central location. One challenge with doing that is finding a plot of central land large enough, because as is obvious by the site plan they want to have another 4-6 fields adjacent to the main stadium so that they could host large tournaments.

Looking at it on a map it looks as though the area around Hurdman Station would be more than big enough. It's actually quite a bit larger than the Kanata site even. Not sure about the other central sites (Lansdowne, Bayview, etc.).

[lrt's friend]

Do we need the multi-field soccer facility at Hurdman? Perhaps, the project needs to split into two and then build one stadium for both soccer and football.

[kingcobra]

I love the stadium design but it is in a wrong location, IMHO.

It would be better if that stadium replaces Frank St. Clair Stadium on same spot.

Last year, some FIFA U-20 games were played at the stadium and I got mingled with foreign fans on Bank Street. They behaved extremely well and jovially. I think it would be ideal for Mr. Melynk to have MLS team there, not in Kanata. If so, I will probably buy season tickets!

[lrt's friend]

One of the advantages of the Kanata site is the fact that the Scotiabank parking lot can be shared for the new Soccer facility. What we forget is that Lansdowne has always had parking and we are kidding ourselves if we think that a lot of parking will not be needed if football and Soccer were set up in Kanata. Remember the Ottawa 67s will still be there and Lansdowne is also used for trade shows. Without substantial parking, both ventures will fail. Remember the Lynx and the parking problems there. The dreams of Lansdowne as a traditional green urban park are not realistic. It never was and it probably should not be in the future. Therefore, Lansdowne would be perfectly suitable for a soccer and football stadium. With the stadium partly torn down, there are ample opportunities to design a new improved facility, and the much more central location will be more accessible and enjoyable for more people.

Any other location mentioned will require a new large parking lot no matter how good transit is. You might point to the major sports facilities in downtown Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Remember those are located right downtown, with restaurants, bars and downtown parking lots nearby and the parking losts are mostly available at game time. Bayview, and Hurdman although centrally located do not offer any of this, making a dedicated and significant parking lot necessary at either location. Insufficient parking within walking distance is a recipe for failure.

[AuxTown]

Copy from a previous post of mine from another thread:

Just something I cooked up this morning for what phase 1 of the project could look like. It would be two lanes one-way counter-clockwise around the Aberdeen Pavillion, two oposing lanes of traffic on the smaller roads, and two lanes each direction entering from and leaving onto Bank Street.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1592/lansdowneparkai3.jpg

The stadium would look something like BMO Field in TO except the stands will look a little more permanent and would integrate some form of retail into the side facing Bank Street. The parking structure doesn't have to look completely horrid and I think the one at the airport is a good example of this. The left over parcels of land could be developed in phases with all kinds of uses that have been mentioned in this thread previously.

http://michaelcollins.files.wordpress.com/2006/07/rendering.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2852/airportparkingzp8.jpg

[clynnog]

but the prospect of trekking out to the boondocks every game is depressing.

The important question in all this is...........where will Posh Spice go after the game for a post game bubble tea after watching the Brand that is Beckham free kick his team towards a victory.

Can you see her schlepping over to Costco to check out the bargains or heading over to Marshy's post game?

The mind boggles.

[waterloowarrior]

Proposed Ottawa soccer stadium faces environmental hurdle (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/09/17/ot-stadium-080917.html)
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 | 12:32 PM ET
CBC News

No development is allowed for at least the next year at the site chosen for a proposed soccer stadium that would be home to a potential Major League Soccer team in Ottawa.

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk announced Tuesday that he is bidding for an MLS team for 2011, and unveiled plans for the 30,000-seat soccer stadium on 15 hectares of land southeast of Scotiabank Place in Kanata West.

The location is on the Carp River flood plain, an area under a provincially imposed development ban.

All housing and land development in the area is frozen for at least a year while environmental studies about the potential for flooding are reviewed with the city and the province.

However, Senators chief operating officer Cyril Leeder said that fits with the timeline for the bid.

"Anytime there's a regulatory review … you have to be worried and concerned," he said, "but at the same time it's something that will get dealt with in due process."

Leeder said the Senators group has not looked into an alternative location for the stadium.

The MLS is expected to award two new franchises by the end of this year or the beginning of 2009.

Melynk has said he believes Ottawa's chances of getting a franchise are "very, very high.



good call Deez

[waterloowarrior]

Soccer stadium in Kanata could cause chaos: councillor (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/09/17/ot-soccer-080917.html)
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 | 6:03 PM ET
CBC News

Building a 30,000-seat soccer stadium near the Kanata arena used by the Ottawa Senators would create horrific traffic jams unless the city makes major transit improvements, says the city councillor for the area.

"I just see chaos and a nightmare," Peggy Feltmate said Wednesday, predicting what would happen on nights when soccer and hockey games overlapped.

"People would be so frustrated and there would be accidents and the whole west end of the city would be shut down."

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk unveiled plans for the $100-million suburban soccer stadium Tuesday.

It would be home to a Major League Soccer team that Melnyk is bidding for and would sit on land in Kanata West that is owned by the City of Ottawa and used as snow dump.

Melnyk wants the city to give up that land and is looking for partnerships from all three levels of government, including a financial commitment from the city by Oct. 15.

Felmate said there's not enough information right now.

"I want to know what kind of partnership they're suggesting with the city and the implication on the city budget."

Hunt supports downtown stadium

Felmate added that she can't imagine the stadium going ahead so close to Scotiabank Place, home of the NHL's Ottawa Senators, without major transportation improvements such as mass transit going directly to the area.

Meanwhile, another group says having a stadium downtown makes the most sense.

Jeff Hunt, owner of the Ottawa 67's Ontario Hockey League team, is seeking support to help renovate Frank Clair Stadium to house a CFL team.

"You look around North America and find out where their major sports attractions are and they're always in the downtown area for no other reason maybe than just accessibility," he said. :tup:

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Mr. Melnyk, please...think of the people...

[p_xavier]

Mr. Melnyk, please...think of the people...

The soccer moms live in the suburbs. Unless there is fast transit going to Frank Clair Stadium, I don't see it surviving there. It's not like stadiums in other cities, where they are practically downtown. The stadium is in the glebe.

Unless the Glebites change their yuppie way, another studium at that location will bring the same old problems: access.

Kanata still has better access, and a more of a profile for a soccer stadium.

Too bad the DND headquarters near the canal can't be demolished, that area would have been a perfect place to put a stadium or arena. It has students, plus easy transit access, plus near the core.

[adam-machiavelli]

Soccer moms just bring their hockey kids to soccer in summer. I don't see them too interested in spectator soccer.

[clynnog]

[QUOTE=waterloowarrior;3806454][BBuilding a 30,000-seat soccer stadium near the Kanata arena used by the Ottawa Senators would create horrific traffic jams unless the city makes major transit improvements, says the city councillor for the area.

"I just see chaos and a nightmare," Peggy Feltmate said Wednesday, predicting what would happen on nights when soccer and hockey games overlapped.

"People would be so frustrated and there would be accidents and the whole west end of the city would be shut down."

QUOTE]


Talk about a doom and gloom proclimation w/o much background. The fact of the matter is footie in MLS is played from April until October and if Ottawa were to get a franchise I would think that they would be on the road at the beginning and end of the season somewhere warmer due to our winter ending and fall beginning.

The number of times that the Sens and FC Ottawa would conflict would be low.

I can see this idea of the MLS franchise ending up in a pissing contest that will be a political hot potato and the MLS Board of Governors will pass on Ottawa as they couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery.

[clynnog]

Soccer moms just bring their hockey kids to soccer in summer. I don't see them too interested in spectator soccer.

Most soccer moms don't follow the game professionally and are only aware of Beckham and maybe C. Ronaldo. They see it as a safe less expensive game than hockey w/o the meathead element of minor league hockey. This is in contrast to the game in Britain where there is a chav element that follows the game tribe like and rugby is seen as a more civilized middle to upper middle class activity.

Once you get below the Premier League in the UK, you are dealing with a lot of bottom feeders as dedicated fans.

[c_speed3108]

A couple thoughts:

One the Kanata stadium:

I think its distance outside from the core is being somewhat overplayed. Traveling there from Orleans does not take that long by bus since it is direct buses that only stop in 3 places.

One the Lansdowne stadium:

I think lack of transit is being over played. If we can put 400-series buses on for Scotiabank place, we can certainly do it for Lansdowne. In the "old days" the entire area behind the North Side Stand, just in off Bank street was used for nothing but staging buses. I actually have pictures to prove that...but don't have time to dig. Furthermore, a no parking/no stopping on game nights rule along bank street would allow enough lanes to get traffic and buses in and out of the place. We could even use lane reversals on Bank Street like they use out at Scotia after the games.

[waterloowarrior]

Yeah, I don't get this fear about the game times overlapping... it's not as if the Sens are going to be playing from mid-April to June anyways ;)

http://images.funadvice.com/photo/image/old/17676/tiny/go_leafs_go.jpg

[Dado]

The important question in all this is...........where will Posh Spice go after the game for a post game bubble tea after watching the Brand that is Beckham free kick his team towards a victory.

Can you see her schlepping over to Costco to check out the bargains or heading over to Marshy's post game?

The mind boggles.

haha

Reminds me of the thoughts I had when there was a real risk that the Sens might win the Stanley Cup. I was hoping that the Sens would win it when away because if we won it at home it would be embarrassing... just imagine the scene, shown on Hockey Night in Canada for all the country to see: the rapturous fans pile out of the arena, down the steps, across the parking lot and into a nearby field to celebrate the victory with the local cattle population. Mooo...

[waterloowarrior]

Council asks for details on soccer arena plan
'A million questions' still to be answered before any position can be formed

Patrick Dare
Ottawa Citizen

Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Ottawa city councillors are excited about the prospect of a professional soccer stadium in Kanata, but they want to see Eugene Melnyk's detailed plan before taking a position on the project.

Mr. Melnyk is eyeing 12 hectares of city-owned land in Kanata West, southeast of his Scotiabank Place arena, as the location for a 30,000-seat stadium. But there are a lot of questions about the project: how it's affected by the floodplain of the nearby Carp River, what the city would get in exchange for the land, and what the implications might be for other sports properties.

City officials say they haven't seen a scrap of written information on the proposal.

"There are a million questions. Put it all on paper and tell us what you expect," said Alta Vista Councillor Peter Hume, who is chairman of the planning and environment committee.

"People are excited about it. It's a great debate to have. It's about city building. But right now, we're debating a press conference."

On Tuesday, Mr. Melnyk went public with his idea to build a soccer stadium and five practice soccer fields, to be located on Palladium Drive north of Maple Grove Road. The concept is to create a sports-entertainment hub with a main street along Palladium Drive connecting the NHL hockey arena to the soccer venue.

The City of Ottawa owns 25 hectares in the area, including 6.5 hectares at a works yard on Maple Grove Road that was recently upgraded, six hectares meant to be used for stormwater management ponds, about half a hectare for public transit and 12 hectares to be sold for development. Part of the city land is used as a temporary snow dump.

The 12 hectares intended for development have been expected to bring in $7.5 million for the city, which could be used to pay for a permanent snow dump elsewhere, as well as some of the works yard costs.

The suggestion this week, however, is that the city's contribution to a Major League Soccer franchise would be the 30-hectare site.

Councillors said they are happy to see the project, but not especially keen to give their land away.

River Councillor Maria McRae said she has "an open mind," but believes such giveaways will lead to other organizations coming forward and asking for city land. She said the city has its own stadium in Lansdowne Park and it might not make sense to be handing out millions of dollars' worth of land when its own asset needs refurbishment.

Councillor Rainer Bloess, an occasional soccer player, said the city has been chastened by recent experiences with sports facilities such as the Ray Friel Centre and the Sensplex, where the city had to step in to keep the facilities afloat financially after deals with private partners went sour. He said the city has to also keep in mind its obligations to keep Lansdowne Park and its Coventry Road baseball stadium going.

"Council is more cautious these days on any of these outside things," said Mr. Bloess.

OTTAWA-Kanata North Councillor Marianne Wilkinson said the stadium proposal is "great," well sited on reasonably flat land, but that building a stadium would apply more pressure on the city to supply more public transit to the site more quickly. She said that if the city kicks in its 30 acres, it must get something back, such as some long-term use of the soccer fields and perhaps of the stadium itself.

Bay Councillor Alex Cullen said he doesn't want to be handing land over to a private business. He said the city has recently given land to Algonquin College and La Cité Collégiale for expansions, but he said Mr. Melnyk's company is not in the same public category.

"We're not in the business of subsidizing private, for-profit ventures," said Mr. Cullen.

Councillor Shad Qadri, who represents Kanata West, knew nothing of the project until he was called by a reporter on Tuesday. He wants to hear all details before taking a position.

Mr. Qadri said such a project would be a tremendous economic development instrument for the Kanata area and great for soccer players because "we're crying for soccer fields." But he said there is a development freeze in Kanata West, the 725-hectare commercial and residential development project around Scotiabank Place.

The city has hired a consultant to do a third-party review of the approvals process for Kanata West after errors were found in floodplain modelling for the area and questions were raised by city auditor general Alain Lalonde about the propriety of the approvals process. The review is expected by the end of the year.

Ontario Environment Minister John Gerretsen was sufficiently perturbed about Kanata West to send a strongly worded letter to the city this summer setting out extra planning and engineering work he wants done before building happens. The development approvals process has already dragged on for seven years.

One of the key environmental issues is the handling of stormwater. Specifically on the city's land, the June 2006 master servicing study for Kanata West shows a stormwater pond on the same land that is being proposed for two of the practice soccer fields. The stormwater facility on the city's land is supposed to drain 239 hectares, about one-third of the whole Kanata West development.

While the city is preparing to get a proposal from Mr. Melnyk's group, it is also awaiting a proposal from another development group, a partnership of businessmen who want to bring a Canadian Football League franchise to Ottawa and redevelop Lansdowne Park in the process. One of the businessmen, Minto Developments president Roger Greenberg, said yesterday that the group is working on its plans "vigorously" and they should be ready within about two weeks.

The city confirmed yesterday that it is assessing the structures at Lansdowne Park in preparation for discussions about the park's future. Steve Finnamore, executive director of business services with the city, said he believes the Civic Centre and north side stands for Frank Clair Stadium are "in pretty good shape," but the city wants to ensure there are no big surprises as it considers Lansdowne's future. That report is expected in late September or early October.

© Ottawa Citizen 2008

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=8eb4d421-3010-4b0d-acc1-2072afd54f68

[YOWflier]

Soccer is the world's game. 'Everyone', 'everywhere' loves it. Combine that with relatively low ticket prices for MLS (I think Melnyk said the most expensive ticket would be around $30) and I believe it will succeed regardless of the stadium's location.

I don't know if he was 'just saying' this, but Melnyk recently stated that the odds of Ottawa's bid being approved are "very, very high".

Yeah, I don't get this fear about the game times overlapping... it's not as if the Sens are going to be playing from mid-April to June anywaysComing from a Leaves fan? What's that saying about people in glass houses? ;)

[Ryersonian]

Yeah, I don't get this fear about the game times overlapping... it's not as if the Sens are going to be playing from mid-April to June anyways ;)

http://images.funadvice.com/photo/image/old/17676/tiny/go_leafs_go.jpg



True colours have been exposed! To June I say; I look forward to the overlap!!

[p_xavier]

Soccer moms just bring their hockey kids to soccer in summer. I don't see them too interested in spectator soccer.

No, but they'll bring their kids, that's the whole point :haha: .

[Acajack]

Soccer is the world's game. 'Everyone', 'everywhere' loves it. Combine that with relatively low ticket prices for MLS (I think Melnyk said the most expensive ticket would be around $30) and I believe it will succeed regardless of the stadium's location.

I don't know if he was 'just saying' this, but Melnyk recently stated that the odds of Ottawa's bid being approved are "very, very high".

Coming from a Leaves fan? What's that saying about people in glass houses? ;)

I don't think that, in Canada at least, one can equate soccer with hockey when discussing what lengths (or distances) people will go to to see a game.

Plus the NHL is the best hockey league in the world. MLS is equivalent to what, the English Third Division?

[Acajack]

The soccer moms live in the suburbs. Unless there is fast transit going to Frank Clair Stadium, I don't see it surviving there. It's not like stadiums in other cities, where they are practically downtown. The stadium is in the glebe.

Unless the Glebites change their yuppie way, another studium at that location will bring the same old problems: access.

Kanata still has better access, and a more of a profile for a soccer stadium.



Access has never really been a problem with Landsdowne, where there’s been a 22,000 to 35,000 seat stadium since the 1920s.

Sure, there was some congestion in the Glebe on game nights, but nothing nightmarish like getting onto the 417 after a Sens game. That’s because there are plenty of local streets that people can use on both sides of the canal (lots of people park on the other side of the bridge). As well, many people walk up and down Bank St. after a game for a beer, a slice of pizza or a sub. The crowd at Lansdowne gets easily dispersed in the neighbourhood instead of Scotiabank Place where you have a big rampage into one huge parking lot with only a few exits, then onto the two or three only roads that actually lead out of the place.

I’ve been to literally dozens (perhaps hundreds) of events at Lansdowne (including a Grey Cup with 55,000 people in attendance) and I’ve never seen anything three like the traffic mess that ensues after pretty much any event at Scotiabank Place.

[Mille Sabords]

Access has never really been a problem with Landsdowne, where there’s been a 22,000 to 35,000 seat stadium since the 1920s.

Sure, there was some congestion in the Glebe on game nights, but nothing nightmarish like getting onto the 417 after a Sens game. That’s because there are plenty of local streets that people can use on both sides of the canal (lots of people park on the other side of the bridge). As well, many people walk up and down Bank St. after a game for a beer, a slice of pizza or a sub. The crowd at Lansdowne gets easily dispersed in the neighbourhood instead of Scotiabank Place where you have a big rampage into one huge parking lot with only a few exits, then onto the two or three only roads that actually lead out of the place.

I’ve been to literally dozens (perhaps hundreds) of events at Lansdowne (including a Grey Cup with 55,000 people in attendance) and I’ve never seen anything three like the traffic mess that ensues after pretty much any event at Scotiabank Place.

What Acajack is saying here is not only 100% correct but a key difference in how each potential stadium location should be gauged. It is irrelevant to compare parking facilities. Kanata only has that option. Lansdowne can get 55,000 people in and out in a variety of ways.

In my personal view, people who insist on driving to Lansdowne are on their own and the City or the team doesn't owe them the comfort of a guaranteed parking spot on-site or even nearby. There should be NO PARKING provided at a downtown stadium, to make people take transit. There should be frequent transit before and after the game - on bank Street there is. For Kanata it has to be pulled together, it's a series of event-specific artificial bus routes, quasi-transitway like, and the vast majority of people going to SBP drive anyway.

There is no excuse for not taking transit to a major league game when it's known that there will be a huge crowd. So really, parking is irrelevant. Anyone here who says that "if there's no parking I won't go", well, good, stay home. The real fans will go and won't be grumpy about parking AND they won't clog the roads with their cars.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR DRIVING to a downtown stadium.
THERE IS NO CHOICE BUT TO DRIVE to a suburban stadium.

So, WHAT KIND OF CITY DO WE WANT?

[ottawatraffic]

a downtown location will always be preferable. but one of the realities of this city is the largest entertainment center sits in isolation and makes a lot of sense that if that district can be become a year round center, than amenities like rapid transit, commercial districts, etc. can develop in the area because it becomes a 365 day destination.

Lansdowne's transportation has many challenges as well. Closing 4 or 5 blocks around the stadium is not the solution. the reality is in the old football days, taking the #2 or #7 use to take nearly an hour from Vanier.

With some planning and investment, the complex in Kanata could develop like Philadelphia's complex, although to succeed it will need true Rapid Transit.

[p_xavier]

a downtown location will always be preferable. but one of the realities of this city is the largest entertainment center sits in isolation and makes a lot of sense that if that district can be become a year round center, than amenities like rapid transit, commercial districts, etc. can develop in the area because it becomes a 365 day destination.

Lansdowne's transportation has many challenges as well. Closing 4 or 5 blocks around the stadium is not the solution. the reality is in the old football days, taking the #2 or #7 use to take nearly an hour from Vanier.

With some planning and investment, the complex in Kanata could develop like Philadelphia's complex, although to succeed it will need true Rapid Transit.


Pretty much my point of view.

[YOWflier]

I don't think that, in Canada at least, one can equate soccer with hockey when discussing what lengths (or distances) people will go to to see a game.

Plus the NHL is the best hockey league in the world. MLS is equivalent to what, the English Third Division?MLS is the best soccer league in North America. What it equates to overseas is irrelevant.

I'm not sure I agree with your hockey comparison either. Sure, Canadians love hockey, but the fact is that it's a rich man's sport and not everyone can afford to play it or attend it (referring to NHL).

When you factor in affordable tickets, the time of year the MLS season occupies (summer, when there is no other pro sport to watch in this town), and the overall popularity of soccer, I definitely see an opportunity for success.

Of course, all this discussion is very premature so the point may be moot.

[AuxTown]

Yeah, I don't get this fear about the game times overlapping... it's not as if the Sens are going to be playing from mid-April to June anyways ;)

http://images.funadvice.com/photo/image/old/17676/tiny/go_leafs_go.jpg

Can you imagine an afternoon home opener for the Ottawa ___________(s) followed by an evening playoff trouncing of the Toronto Maple Laughs? :banaride: And you can buy tickets to both via capitaltickets.ca for $200 total. That would be the greatest day ever and if you separate the games by at least 2 hours (probably 4), there shouldn't be an issue with the parking lot. I'm just trying to make the best of this non-ideal stadium location as there are a few possible benefits, not the least of which being a use for that ridiculously large parking lot during the summer.

[lrt's friend]

As a football season holder for years, what acajack described is accurate. Football crowds dispersed from Lansdowne quickly and without enormous headaches. I never parked on site, but never had a problem finding a parking spot or getting home quickly. When I attended the Grey Cup, the transit system was extremely efficient and I was impressed. I realize that the transit setup on regular game days could have been better. The main reason why it was so easy to get to and from Lansdowne was the street pattern and the availability of lots of on-street parking. None of this applies to Scotiabank Place nor will it apply to a new stadium in Kanata. The roads are always crammed, and it is so difficult getting out of the parking lot if you haven't found that 'ideal' parking spot next to the exit. The transit alternative is dreadfully slow and there are only a handful of buses which require you to rush out of the arena following the game or you are stuck. I can count on it taking 90 minutes to get home whether by car or on transit.

I will be thrilled with the arrival of MLS or the return of the CFL but I will not be thrilled with a stadium in Kanata.

[Acajack]

As a football season holder for years, what acajack described is accurate. Football crowds dispersed from Lansdowne quickly and without enormous headaches. I never parked on site, but never had a problem finding a parking spot or getting home quickly. When I attended the Grey Cup, the transit system was extremely efficient and I was impressed. I realize that the transit setup on regular game days could have been better. The main reason why it was so easy to get to and from Lansdowne was the street pattern and the availability of lots of on-street parking. None of this applies to Scotiabank Place nor will it apply to a new stadium in Kanata. The roads are always crammed, and it is so difficult getting out of the parking lot if you haven't found that 'ideal' parking spot next to the exit. The transit alternative is dreadfully slow and there are only a handful of buses which require you to rush out of the arena following the game or you are stuck. I can count on it taking 90 minutes to get home whether by car or on transit.

I will be thrilled with the arrival of MLS or the return of the CFL but I will not be thrilled with a stadium in Kanata.

Thinking back to my 15 years or more as a Rough Riders season ticket holder, the routine for an evening game was that I would park somewhere off Riverdale Ave. across the canal and walk up Echo Dr. then across the bridge. I lived in Orleans at the time.

Games starting at 7:30 would typically end at 10:15-10:30 or so. My tickets were in the south upper deck so I had to walk all the way down, then all the way across the bridge and then down Riverdale (almost to Main St.). Most of the time I also had to drop off a friend in Vanier or Overbrook before heading off to Orleans.

At that time, CBC still had local latenight news at 11, and I used to always make it home with plenty of time to see the game highlights (with Dan Seguin, Vic Hultquist or Hub Beaudry!) when the sports came on at around 11:15.