Haifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission

[Dmajackson]

I was browsing the web today and stumbled upon a video on the HDBC's website (click here (https://www.hdbc.ca/video.asp)) that lists what's going to happen with the commission for the next couple of years. I didn't manage to get everything down so i would suggest watching it. Here's the facts i did get though:

-Repairs ongoing on the four approaches from Dartmouth.
-New signs on both sides of the MacKay displaying weather conditions and construction activity,
-They now own the Victoria Street Overpass and are planning to fix it up.
-They are going to dismantle the "Abandoned bridge" on the Halifax side.
-They are painting the bridges a lighter shade of green.

Some HDBC related threads:
Third Bridge By 2016 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=148144)

[hfx_chris]

-Repairs ongoing on the four approaches from Dartmouth.The four approaches? Huh?
-New signs on both sides of the MacKay displaying weather conditions and construction activity,Good, good. Permanent signs I assume, not just those ones they wheel in place every time they do construction...
-They now own the Victoria Street Overpass and are planning to fix it up.That'll be good; I know they're doing construction under the overpass, hopefully resurfacing, that whole stretch is a huge mess.
-They are going to dismantle the "Abandoned bridge" on the Halifax side.Also good! That hasn't been used as an overpass in over 10 years now; I remember when I was young going over that overpass, it always seemed scary because it was so high up in the air
-They are painting the bridges a lighter shade of green.Ugh, I hope it's not that shade of puke green they have in some spots...what's wrong with dark green?

[Dmajackson]

The four approaches? Huh?
Good, good. Permanent signs I assume, not just those ones they wheel in place every time they do construction...
The two bridges (four approaches) on the Dartmouth side of MacKay Bridge (Windmill Rd and Princess Margaret Blvd). Yep they will be permnament signs. I think they said 3 on each side of the bridge.
That'll be good; I know they're doing construction under the overpass, hopefully resurfacing, that whole stretch is a huge mess.
The Q&A section on their website implied they are going to redo the whole interchange. They said they are in the design phase and construction should begin later this year.
Ugh, I hope it's not that shade of puke green they have in some spots...what's wrong with dark green?
Yep that's the colour. They said they have some of it done already.

[Keith P.]

-New signs on both sides of the MacKay displaying weather conditions and construction activity

When they redid the MacDonald they bought similar signs for use on the bridge and they use them in a totally worthless manner. 99% of the time they just say "Speed Radar Checked" or something similarly useless. When it snows they have a "Slippery" version that goes up. There may be one or two others they have but I can't remember. Regardless, they are worthless they way they are used. Hopefully these will be better.

I'm disappoionted they don't have on their list a redevelopment of the MacDonald deck where it meets the toll plaza to widen it out and remove a constant bottleneck. That is a very poorly designed area that could be fixed relatively easily.

[hfx_chris]

When they redid the MacDonald they bought similar signs for use on the bridge and they use them in a totally worthless manner. 99% of the time they just say "Speed Radar Checked" or something similarly useless. When it snows they have a "Slippery" version that goes up. There may be one or two others they have but I can't remember. Regardless, they are worthless they way they are used. Hopefully these will be better.
I think when the center lane is changing, it displays a message to let you know. But that's about as useful as it gets.

[Wishblade]

I think when the center lane is changing, it displays a message to let you know. But that's about as useful as it gets.

Don't forget that it tells you the speed limit that never ever changes! :haha:

[Dmajackson]

Don't forget that it tells you the speed limit that never ever changes! :haha:

I don't use the bridge much but i think there are real signs telling you the speed limit as well. It would be more useful if they put "Have a Nice Day" or "Drive Safe". :haha:

[hfx_chris]

Hell, even if they just interspersed the speed limit with other public service messages it would be a hell of a lot better.

[terrynorthend]

Time and temperature!! Lets start a petition..:jester:

[Amanita]

Anyone attending Bridge Walk this monday? I'll be there in full Jedi regalia, with some friends.

[Dmajackson]

Not planning to walk it but if i do i'm sure you'll stick out of the crowd...

Just a little fact i found out recently. The HDBC is planning to take-over the Burnside Expressway (with tollbooths naturally) when its built. I imagine that they will also pursue buying the roads between them (Circ & Burnside Dr).

[terrynorthend]

Anyone attending Bridge Walk this monday? I'll be there in full Jedi regalia, with some friends.

What is your rank/role? I just discovered an old friend of mine is a Stormtrooper.. member of the 501st.. nice looking suit..

[hfx_chris]

:sly:

[Amanita]

I'm not in the Rebel Legion yet- that's the costuming group for the "good guys" of the Star Wars universe, the sister of the 501st.
I'll have to get some pics during bridge walk and post them, not to mention hoping and praying that the weather forecast changes- calling for fuckin rain. Ugh.

[macgregor]

I was looking at Halifax Harbour Bridges' 2008-2009 Annual Report. I found it interesting to read. It says that in 2009 the will "conduct a study on the impact peak period tolling and one-way tolling might have on reducing congestion at the bridges". I know that one-way tolling may have some minor unintended consequences like shifting traffic patterns, but it otherwise seems like a good idea to me.

https://www.hdbc.ca/docs/2208-2009%20final%20report-2.pdf

[Halifax Hillbilly]

I was looking at Halifax Harbour Bridges' 2008-2009 Annual Report. I found it interesting to read. It says that in 2009 the will "conduct a study on the impact peak period tolling and one-way tolling might have on reducing congestion at the bridges". I know that one-way tolling may have some minor unintended consequences like shifting traffic patterns, but it otherwise seems like a good idea to me.

https://www.hdbc.ca/docs/2208-2009%20final%20report-2.pdf

Peak period tolling is an excellent idea.

[Dmajackson]

No hike in peak-time bridge tolls
By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter
Wed, Nov 17 - 7:26 AM

Commuters who travel the bridges spanning Halifax Harbour won’t be paying high peak-time tolls.

Halifax Harbour Bridges has released results of a study looking into ways to lighten traffic during rush hour on the two bridges. In particular, the study considered the impact of imposing peak-period tolls and one-way tolling.

About 32 million vehicles cross the harbour each year, with weekday crossings often exceeding 100,000, Halifax Harbour Bridges numbers show.

But to get commuters to travel at non-peak periods or to use Metro Transit’s buses and ferries would require a huge jump in tolls, the study found.

"I was a bit surprised," said Halifax Harbour Bridges general manager and CEO Steve Snider in a telephone interview Tuesday.

Even an increase to $3 from the current 60-cent toll for Macpass users would only result in a drop of about 15 per cent during rush-hour traffic at 7-9 a.m. and 3-6 p.m.

"A 15 per cent shift would basically be unnoticed by commuters," Snider said.

According to the study, the only way to significantly cut rush-hour traffic on the bridges would be to impose a $6 toll.

"At this stage, the potential benefit of peak-period tolling is not enough to justify the cost to our users," Snider said in a release.

One-way tolling has also been ruled out by the commission after the study showed it could lead to increased congestion in the non-tolled direction and would likely cut bridge revenues.

It’s the commission’s mandate to provide safe, efficient and reliable crossings at an appropriate cost, Snider said.

And at this point there’s not much else Halifax Harbour Bridges can do, he said.

The answer is to improve the transit system and carpooling, the bridge boss said.

To get commuters out of their cars, transit buses would have to have priority on city streets and transport passengers to their destinations faster, he said.

The $175,000 study took about eight months, Snider said.

Bridge commissioner Coun. Sue Uteck (Northwest Arm-South End) defended the study, calling it a "worthwhile exercise."

For Uteck, the solution is to buy more ferries and create more parking at the terminal lots.

Both Uteck and Snider say a third harbour crossing, be it a bridge or tunnel, would be too expensive, with a projected cost of more than $1 billion.

"We’ve got to do a better job of providing alternative transportation and we haven’t. We got denied funding for the Woodside ferry. It’s 35 years old, and not only do we need to replace it, we need two of them," Uteck said.

And to fund that infrastructure, Uteck suggests imposing a toll of 25 cents per car at the Armdale Rotary. "We’re at capacity right now with what we can afford to fund. So we have to find alternative sources of funding."

In the meantime, Halifax Harbour Bridges is looking to increase its revenues through general toll increases. Starting Monday, the commission will appear before the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board to present its case to have tolls increased 25 cents to $1 for commuters who pay cash.

The commission wants Macpass users to pay a 20-cent increase to 80 cents per crossing. If approved, the increases will be effective Feb. 1, 2011, Snider said.

The last time tolls were increased — to 75 cents from 50 cents — was in 1992.
( djeffrey@herald.ca )

Chronicle Herald Article (http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1212468.html)

[fenwick16]

I think that tolls should be increased on the Harbour Bridges and part of the revenue generated could be used for better cross-harbour rapid transit (ferries or other) and to build a tunnel under the North West Arm. I think that the tolls should realistically be about double what they currently are. Maintaining low toll rates will simply encourage more cars on the Halifax peninsula coming from Dartmouth and further growth on the Dartmouth side of the harbour (I have nothing against Dartmouth except that splitting the population on two sides of the harbour is costly). Encouraging growth to the southwest of Halifax will be a cheaper option.

PS: The Halifax Harbour Bridges commission would also be responsible for building and collecting tolls on a North West Arm tunnel.

(source: https://www.hdbc.ca/mandate.asp )
With the approval of the Governor in Council, HHB may construct, maintain and operate transportation projects across the Halifax Harbour and/or the North West Arm.

[fenwick16]

In the Chronicle Herald today, there were a few more details about replacing the deck and vertical suspension cables on the MacDonald Bridge. This is a major project at $139 million dollars.

(the complete story is at: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1213622.html )
Lions Gate makeover a preview of what’s ahead for Macdonald By IAN FAIRCLOUGH Staff Reporter Wed, Nov 24 - 4:53 AM
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/story_large/stories/photos/11-24-10_788980.jpg

The process of replacing the suspended span of the Angus L. Macdonald Bridge over Halifax Harbour will be the same as what was done to the Lions Gate Bridge in Vancouver 10 years ago.

The Macdonald and the Lions Gate were both designed by noted engineer Philip Pratley and they are very similar in construction. In 2000 and 2001 the entire suspended section of the Lions Gate was replaced. That meant everything on the driving surface, including the steel underneath.

It was the first replacement anywhere in the world of the deck of a major suspension bridge.
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[halifaxboyns]

Halifax-Dartmouth bridge tolls to rise to $1

By CLARE MELLOR Staff Reporter | UPDATED 1:40 p.m.
Thu, Jan 27 - 12:48 PM

As of April 1, motorists will pay more to cross the two Halifax Harbour bridges.

Those paying cash will shell out $1 per crossing, 25 cents more than they pay now.

Subscribers to MACPASS, an electronic toll collecting system, will see the fare jump from 60 to 80 cents. However, that increase for MACPASS users will be phased in over two equal steps April 1 of this year, and April 2012.

The Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board, which regulates the bridge tolls, released a written decision on the matter Thursday after an application last year by the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission.

The board held a hearing on the matter in November.

The commission has said it requires the fare increase to help pay for significant and expensive construction projects on the bridges coming up in the next few years.

The written decision can be found here (http://nsuarb.ca/images/stories/pdf/Decisions/11Jan/HDBC%20Decision.pdf).

Personally; I support the increase - it's been a while and the bridges do need maintenance, but I suspect you'll see the ridership on Metro Transit increase too - as more people take the bus.

[Jstaleness]

Personally; I support the increase - it's been a while and the bridges do need maintenance, but I suspect you'll see the ridership on Metro Transit increase too - as more people take the bus.

Great point. You know, 20 to 25cents doesn't seem like much but you add that up with increasing gas prices and it will become cheaper to ride the bus. Hopefully bus fares stay where they are for awhile. Bus toll is not expected to change so it doesn't give Metro Transit an excuse to up fares. I would like to know if I'm the only one who thinks that Metro Transit shouldn't be paying tolls on the bridge period.

[David1gray]

i suppose i will put this here.......
Councillor proposes Halifax road tolls

Transit improvement must come first: Hendsbee

A councillor in the Halifax area says new road tolls in the city may help reduce traffic congestion on the peninsula.

Coun. David Hendsbee raised the issue in front of colleagues and city staff on Thursday evening at Halifax Regional Council's first session of its standing committee on transportation.

He said the idea of road tolls is included in the transportation demand management plan, a newly-created blueprint for reducing traffic congestion by promoting transit, carpooling, biking and walking.

"Basically to have an opportunity to tax vehicles coming in and out of the capital district area," Hendsbee told CBC News.

The councillor for Preston-Lawrencetown-Chezzetcook said it's not fair for commuters coming from the eastern part of the municipality to continue to pay a bridge toll to cross the Halifax Harbour, while commuters from the western side of the municipality pay nothing.

He said the best place to put road tolls would be on the eight bridges — including one on Quinpool Road — that span the railway cut on the Halifax peninsula.

"It's the only effective way to try to control the traffic in and out of the downtown core, but it's also the last piece of the puzzle," said Hendsbee.

"We should be having all the other parts of the plan in place first, be it the bikeways, be it the Park and Ride sites, be it the transit — the express and regular service — so that way, people have an option."

CN Rail and the Halifax Regional Municipality are in discussion about the repairs and ongoing maintenance of the bridges over the rail cut.

"If CN was to transfer those ownerships to the municipality or to a transit authority or to the province, one way to help pay for the maintenance would be assistance through tolling," said Hendsbee.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/01/28/ns-hendsbee-road-tolls.html

uhhh are they crazy? this would definitely help in keeping people like me away from downtown. i agree that the bridges need to be fixed, and transit more used but this isnt the way to get that if you ask me.

[fenwick16]

I agree with the concept of discouraging cars in the downtown core but I wonder if there aren't better ways to do it than with peninsula road tolls. One way is to increase the bridge tolls even more (to about $1.50) but have a truly rapid transit system operating on the Dartmouth side of the two Harbour Bridges. This could use buses but they would have to operate with short waiting times (5 - 10 minutes maximum) and get to the downtown Halifax core very quickly so that people will be encouraged to park their cars on the Dartmouth side and then take the rapid transit. I would also like to see a North West Arm tunnel and that could have tolls.

On the Halifax side there should be park and ride locations outside the core whereby people can park and take Bus Rapid Transit into the core.

I think that growth should be encouraged on the Halifax side so that massive amounts of money won't be required for a 3rd harbour bridge.

[Jstaleness]

There is already so many people complaining about the cost of parking downtown. I wonder how these people are going to react when they'd have to pay just to get downtown? This is a very general statement but wouldn't this move cause more suburbanization?

[DigitalNinja]

I think that it would. By putting road tolls to get onto the peninsula you would be segregating it from the rest of the city essentially.
There was a really funny comment in the herald today they had a comment from some guy who said. "I don't think they should have bridge tolls, people who use bedford highway don't have to pay tolls."

[Keith P.]

The idea of tolls for coming onto the peninsula comes from one of the most moronic councillors (Hendsbee) and accordingly is a moronic idea. There already is a toll -- the bridge toll. The way the city is laid out geographically you have to come onto the peninsula if you are traveling from the east to west or vice versa. You are just passing through. How else are you supposed to go from Dartmouth to Bayers Lake, for example? Perhaps he is proposing toll plazas at the corner of Barrington and Cogswell and others at entry places surrounding the downtown core. That is simply ridiculous. We don't have a real traffic problem or a downtown parking problem. We have minor choke points that could be easily fixed with some intelligent road design and minor investment.

[-Harlington-]

Despite toll increase, bridges still owe N.S.


Halifax-Dartmouth bridge tolls to go up April 1
Hearing for bridge toll increase begins

The agency that oversees the bridges owes about $53 million, down from $123 million in 2007. That debt — some of which was incurred to build a third lane on the Angus L. Macdonald Bridge in 1999 — was financed through the province.

The bridges that cross Halifax harbour were discussed before a committee at the Nova Scotia legislature on Wednesday.

Wayne Mason, the vice-chair of the board of commissioners for the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission, was asked if the bridges would ever be paid off.

"Will they ever be paid for? Not in the foreseeable future. Will we ever be out of debt? Not in the foreseeable future," he said.

Both the Angus L. Macdonald and A. Murray MacKay bridges are due for major retrofits.

The Macdonald Bridge is scheduled to have its deck replaced in about four years — a job that could cost as much as $200 million and take 18 months to complete.

The MacKay Bridge will have similar work done in about 12 years. That upgrade is expected to cost as much as $350 million.

"Just when you see the $60 million getting down and you're going to say, 'Well, we're out of debt and that's paid off,' we do have this redecking project," said Mason.

In April, commuters started paying $1 per crossing to help pay for the work. It works out to an increase of 25 cents.

Mason said the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission is looking at issuing bonds to help raise the money needed to pay for the work on the Macdonald Bridge.

Steve Snider, the CEO and general manager of the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission, said he doesn't know if other increases are likely.

Future increases
"We have this major project coming up. We did make an application and the toll increase has been granted and that toll increase will serve us for this project," said Snider.

He was also asked if the commission will apply for another increase.

"I don't know. I can't say never, but right now what we have received is going to serve us for the project we have," Snider responded.

"There's no plans or intentions on any other increase."

Those responsible for the bridges said there's little more they can do to ease congestion. Ten years ago, the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission requested a study to determine what it could do to encourage people to not use the bridges so much.

Mason said the conclusion wasn't encouraging.

"The study showed that substantial change in demand would only occur if a very significant increase in tolls were applied," he said.

"A 500 per cent increase in tolls to bridge tolls would result in a bridge demand reduction of only 15 per cent."

Mason said there are no plans to further increase the tolls on the bridge

[Keith P.]

It is utter nonsense for these officials to claim they can do nothing to alleviate congestion. The problem with congestion is not ON the bridges; it is getting to them and away from them. The approaches and toll gates on either side on both bridges are atrocious, and especially on the Macdonald. Why are not all tollgates except one in each direction MacPass only? Why has the "funnel" on the Dartmouth side of the Macdonald not been widened to eliminate the bottleneck as you approach the tolls? Why has nothing been done to move traffic through the Wyse Rd intersection more efficiently? And on the MacKay, why are we still saddled with the atrocious Windsor St exchange? Changes to these areas would move traffic far more efficiently and quickly. I do not find these HDBC officials very convincing nor do they inspire much confidence.

[beyeas]

It is utter nonsense for these officials to claim they can do nothing to alleviate congestion. The problem with congestion is not ON the bridges; it is getting to them and away from them. The approaches and toll gates on either side on both bridges are atrocious, and especially on the Macdonald. Why are not all tollgates except one in each direction MacPass only? Why has the "funnel" on the Dartmouth side of the Macdonald not been widened to eliminate the bottleneck as you approach the tolls? Why has nothing been done to move traffic through the Wyse Rd intersection more efficiently? And on the MacKay, why are we still saddled with the atrocious Windsor St exchange? Changes to these areas would move traffic far more efficiently and quickly. I do not find these HDBC officials very convincing nor do they inspire much confidence.

I agree with you on many of the changes you suggest, but a big part of the problem is lack of overlap in terms of mandates.

The only thing on that list that is within the HDBC's mandate is the setup of tolling booths.

They have zero input or ability effect change in terms of the surface roads like Windsor exchange. I know I sound like a broken record, but this city bloody needs an over-riding transport authority that can think and act "big picture". Changes to the road structure around Wyse Rd that you suggested, and changes to mass transport that Someone123 suggested on another thread would both have significant impact.

The HDBC, roads, and mass transport are 3 separate agencies with 3 separate mandates, and that is at the root of many of the transportation problems in this city.

[someone123]

Yeah, it's crazy that one entity is responsible for bridges, another for roads, another for transit. We never see real comparisons between different transportation options because each agency is focused on empire building.

Similarly because councillors vote on little transportation projects (e.g. Chebucto Road, Washmill, the Dartmouth bus terminal debacle) everything is polarized/politicized.

[Hali87]

This is from an article posted earlier this month by Haligonian88 in the Burnside thread; the article is about a steelworks company but the last paragraph just caught my attention:


"And then, of course, the Macdonald bridge is going to be coming out to bid here in probably the next two years,” Ross said. “That’s something in the range of a $200-million project.”

Does he mean that the bridge is likely to be replaced within the next couple years? Or does it cost that much just to maintain? Either way, that's a lot of money.

[Dmajackson]

^It's probably the deck replacement project slated for 2014. It's a huge construction project requiring long-term closures of the MacDonald and it was the reason for the increases in toll fares last year.

[resetcbu1]

^It's probably the deck replacement project slated for 2014. It's a huge construction project requiring long-term closures of the MacDonald and it was the reason for the increases in toll fares last year.

Wasn't the entire deck redone not too Long ago ? 12 years max...... I think

[Wishblade]

Wasn't the entire deck redone not too Long ago ? 12 years max...... I think

I believe they added the 3rd lane in 1999 and I think a resurfacing was done at that time as well.

[Waye Mason]

The last project replaced the deck, making it three lanes, upgrading lights and signage and the toll plaza, and adding the sidewalk and bike lanes hanging outside the strand cables (the straight up and down cables).

The next project is describe on the HHB website: https://www.hdbc.ca/construction.asp
Macdonald Bridge suspended span redecking project - 2015
In early 2015 the largest project since the building of the MacKay Bridge in 1970 will begin, the replacement of the suspended spans of the Macdonald Bridge. The design work is taking place now and the on-site work will begin in early 2015 and end in late 2016.

When the third lane on the Macdonald Bridge was added, the deck on the approach spans was replaced as well. At this time it was estimated the suspended span deck had another 15 years of life. The bridge remains very safe, however, the work will be done before it becomes a critical project.
The project includes: replacing the road deck, floor beams, stiffening trusses and suspender ropes on the suspended spans of the Macdonald Bridge. When this project is complete, a significant amount of the bridge infrastructure will be new.

This project is expected to cost approximately $200 million dollars, and because it is only the second time a project of this nature has been completed, it will attract worldwide attention.

The cost associated with this project is the reason HHB requested, and the NSUARB granted , a toll increase in 2011. With strong fiscal management, decreasing interest rates and increasing revenue HHB was able to avoid a toll increase for almost 20 years.


Building a third bridge was quoted at $1.1-1.6 billion.

[resetcbu1]

The last project replaced the deck, making it three lanes, upgrading lights and signage and the toll plaza, and adding the sidewalk and bike lanes hanging outside the strand cables (the straight up and down cables).

The next project is describe on the HHB website: https://www.hdbc.ca/construction.asp


Building a third bridge was quoted at $1.1-1.6 billion.
Hmmm that's interesting, I am surprised they did not do that when they resurface the deck last time

[amiefrost]

Accidents on the bridges are becoming more frequent and nothing is being done to address the main cause; lane swapping during peak hours.

There are signs posted saying to remain in one lane. I assume the reason they are not enforced is because the bridge commission does not want to pay an employee to montior cameras.

What if the city paid a portion of the cost for the sake of more efficient traffic flow? I am sure the insurance companies would even consider subsidizing that somehow as they must be paying trhough the nose lately anyway.

There is no excuse for the lack of enforcement of road regulations on the bridges. Many of these people who suddenly jump lanes in a bug hurry to get through ahead of everyone else, cause accidents behind them that they then drive away from. It's all on camera everyday, and yet they continue to get away with it.

Where is the enforcement? Where are the officials who should be addressing this safety concern? It happens day after day, with accidents two or three times a week causing traffic jams and tying up the city. Where are the people who are supposed to oversee this sort of civic problem?

[Keith P.]

The biggest issues with the bridges are the poor road infrastructure at either end and the toll plazas. Eliminate the toll plaza merge as much as you possibly can and a lot of the trouble goes away. Fix the exits from the bridges and the cause of sudden stops on the spans goes away, which IMO is the root cause of most of the incidents.

[something_witty]

Accidents on the bridges are becoming more frequent and nothing is being done to address the main cause; lane swapping during peak hours.

There are signs posted saying to remain in one lane. I assume the reason they are not enforced is because the bridge commission does not want to pay an employee to montior cameras.

What if the city paid a portion of the cost for the sake of more efficient traffic flow? I am sure the insurance companies would even consider subsidizing that somehow as they must be paying trhough the nose lately anyway.

There is no excuse for the lack of enforcement of road regulations on the bridges. Many of these people who suddenly jump lanes in a bug hurry to get through ahead of everyone else, cause accidents behind them that they then drive away from. It's all on camera everyday, and yet they continue to get away with it.

Where is the enforcement? Where are the officials who should be addressing this safety concern? It happens day after day, with accidents two or three times a week causing traffic jams and tying up the city. Where are the people who are supposed to oversee this sort of civic problem?

As a claims adjuster for a local insurer, I can tell you that I have never had a claim in the last 5 years because of lane changes. It is always people following too closely and rear-ending another driver.

[amiefrost]

you are kidding me, right?? Please tell me that you are kidding me????

[Keith P.]

As a claims adjuster for a local insurer, I can tell you that I have never had a claim in the last 5 years because of lane changes. It is always people following too closely and rear-ending another driver.

I would agree. The only lane-changing incidents I have seen involve Metro Transit buses sideswiping other cars because they cannot stay in their lane or change lanes unexpectedly, especially at the toll plaza end of the MacDonald bridge.

[Dmajackson]

The Halifax Dartmouth Bridge Commission is looking at reorganizing the MacKay Bridge tollbooth area. They are looking into removing the ability to pay by cash and instead use license plate cameras to bill cars that are not hooked up to the MacPass program. Apparently 94% of commercial and 74% of private vehicles already pay electronically. They are hoping that removing the "stopping" will clear up the traffic jams that currently happen.

As currently proposed the upgrades would occur in 2016 following the completion of the MacDonald Bridge re-decking (starts May 2015).

Source : "Cashless Bridge Tolls Could Be Coming" (December 18th, 2013) - AllNovaScotia.com

It's not mentioned in the article but I wonder if the HDBC would look into peak-travel tolling. There's no road-based alternatives really to the bridges so it could work well.

[scooby074]

well thats a bunch of crap.

I dont want "photo" anything from radar to tolls rearing its ugly head here.

I dont want random bills appearing in the mail every month. I certainly dont trust them to be accurate in their billing and I dont want to be second guessing (Did I cross the bridge on the 22nd or not??). I pay by cash for a reason.

[JET]

well thats a bunch of crap.

I dont want "photo" anything from radar to tolls rearing its ugly head here.

I dont want random bills appearing in the mail every month. I certainly dont trust them to be accurate in their billing and I dont want to be second guessing (Did I cross the bridge on the 22nd or not??). I pay by cash for a reason.

sounds like your reason is to slow everyone else down, it amazes me that people still resist technology like the macpass; I always seem to be behind someone who has to slow down, stop, take aim, wait, and then s l o w l y proceed. That might not be you, but resistance is futile, afterall

[Ziobrop]

sounds like your reason is to slow everyone else down, it amazes me that people still resist technology like the macpass; I always seem to be behind someone who has to slow down, stop, take aim, wait, and then s l o w l y proceed. That might not be you, but resistance is futile, afterall

I've used the 407 in Toronto. I went through the toll at 110km/h. Bill was fine, and if you have a macpass it deducts from there

[hfx_chris]

There are seven lanes (in each direction) at the MacKay bridge. If only one of them had a coin collector (and manned booth), maybe the one at the far right, and the other six were macpass only, I wonder if that would speed things up. And if there were crazy long lines at that one lane, it might encourage a few more people to get a Macpass.
I could see however getting rid of the coin collector and booth on the Macdonald bridge, where there's only five lanes and very little space coming off of Wyse.

[Jstaleness]

While I agree this will help it's not the tolls that are the problem. Do they slow the flow? Yes they do. Its the congestion on the Windsor St Exchange/Bedford Hwy that causes the back ups in the morning and at night.

[Jstaleness]

There are seven lanes (in each direction) at the MacKay bridge. If only one of them had a coin collector (and manned booth), maybe the one at the far right, and the other six were macpass only, I wonder if that would speed things up.

I would be against the one at the far right Halifax bound as this is and should be the primary lane for people coming up from Princess Margaret Ramp. I personally think one of the center lanes is best for cash lanes.

[spaustin]

The Halifax Dartmouth Bridge Commission is looking at reorganizing the MacKay Bridge tollbooth area. They are looking into removing the ability to pay by cash and instead use license plate cameras to bill cars that are not hooked up to the MacPass program. Apparently 94% of commercial and 74% of private vehicles already pay electronically. They are hoping that removing the "stopping" will clear up the traffic jams that currently happen.

As currently proposed the upgrades would occur in 2016 following the completion of the MacDonald Bridge re-decking (starts May 2015).

Source : "Cashless Bridge Tolls Could Be Coming" (December 18th, 2013) - AllNovaScotia.com

It's not mentioned in the article but I wonder if the HDBC would look into peak-travel tolling. There's no road-based alternatives really to the bridges so it could work well.

Just curious, but what about out-of-province plates? Are we going to be sending $1 invoices all over the world now?

[scooby074]

sounds like your reason is to slow everyone else down, it amazes me that people still resist technology like the macpass; I always seem to be behind someone who has to slow down, stop, take aim, wait, and then s l o w l y proceed. That might not be you, but resistance is futile, afterall

If youre always behind somebody using cash, get the heck into the Macpass only lanes! But honestly how much does it slow you down?

Their is some benefit to having cars slowing down. The merge after the toll booth when the cars are slowed by the tollbooth is bad enough, imagine the scene if the cars were going 60ish kmh after blowing past the booth full speed if this system is installed. It'll be carnage.

[JET]

If youre always behind somebody using cash, get the heck into the Macpass only lanes! But honestly how much does it slow you down?

Their is some benefit to having cars slowing down. The merge after the toll booth when the cars are slowed by the tollbooth is bad enough, imagine the scene if the cars were going 60ish kmh after blowing past the booth full speed if this system is installed. It'll be carnage.

I'm usuallyturning left or right on Wyse coming off the MacDonald, so I'm usually in the non macpass lanes, and sometimes it does seem very s l o w where folks are paying by cash, they often just seem so unprepared. Guess I'm just looking for a happy medium. You are right about some folks just blowing through, it's a wonder there isn't more carnage

[Keith P.]

Interesting that the 1970 toll plaza on the MacKay is in need of replacement. The MacDonald's 1955 East Germany toll plaza remains original and every bit as awful as it was on day one.

I'm glad that they are finally giving some thought to tolling traffic patterns. It is absurd on the MacKay to see the 2 leftmost MacPass only lanes Halifax-bound lined up each morning while the other 5 lines (which also accept MacPass) are often clear. I wonder if people realize they can go to any lane if they have a MacPass.

It would make sense to keep the 2 lanes of through traffic from the highway moving as much as possible. Penalize those who insist on paying cash by making them wait.

As for the MacDonald Bridge toll plaza behavior, it is total anarchy Dartmouth-bound. People zigzag all over the place randomly. That also needs a complete redesign. An elevated flyover to eliminate the Wyse Rd-Nantucket intersection for Dartmouth-bound traffic would make a big improvement.

[Dmajackson]

It would make sense to keep the 2 lanes of through traffic from the highway moving as much as possible. Penalize those who insist on paying cash by making them wait.

If they are going to this correctly I think they need to talk to the Province about widening the Windmill Road and CN overpasses to 8 lanes minimum. Ideally the left-lane in each direction on the bridge should feed directly into the existing Circ lanes.

Halifax-bound this would entail a short C-E system. The two existing lanes would be separated from the rest by a concrete barrier, pass through the camera / MACPASS overhead dectors, merge into one lane, then get dumped into the left-lane on the bridge. To allow Circ traffic to access Princess Margaret Blvd a collector lane would be started at or near the inside loop ramps at Victoria Road. This lane would add the Victoria Road traffic lane, have a short exit lane for PMB then add the PMB traffic lane. Three lanes would go through the toll area. IF one cash lane is desired to remain it would become the very right-hand lane (PMB lane).

Dartmouth-bound it would be similar to above. On the bridge signs would mark the left lane as Circ access only. At the end of the bridge the left-lane would split off of the rest (concrete barrier), widen to two lanes, pass through the toll area, head directly to the existing two lanes on the Circ. The right lane would pass through the tolls as three lanes. One lane would be lost to PMB, one lane would be added from PMB, The PMB merge would end before the Windmill Road overpass. Lane would be lost to Victoria Rd SB, The inside loop ramp would be reconfigured to merge into the collector lane earlier.

This wouldn't solve the problems at the Victoria Road interchange but that in itself is a massive undertaking.

As for the MacDonald Bridge toll plaza behavior, it is total anarchy Dartmouth-bound. People zigzag all over the place randomly. That also needs a complete redesign. An elevated flyover to eliminate the Wyse Rd-Nantucket intersection for Dartmouth-bound traffic would make a big improvement.

But total anarchy can be fun. I personally enjoy driving through chaotic areas like Armdale Roundabout and Deerfoot Trail (Calgary). One of my favourites still has to be the tollbooth though. The dual-right-turn off of Wyse is just hillarious (the NO RIGHT ON RED SIGN only applies at morning rush but no one seems to know that), and of course heading the opposite direction theres that horribly placed concrete island with a sharp turn into the tollbooth.

[scooby074]

I'm usuallyturning left or right on Wyse coming off the MacDonald, so I'm usually in the non macpass lanes, and sometimes it does seem very s l o w where folks are paying by cash, they often just seem so unprepared. Guess I'm just looking for a happy medium. You are right about some folks just blowing through, it's a wonder there isn't more carnage

I agree that some can be unprepared.

I have a small change only (factory designed) drop out cubby hole. I keep maybe $10 or $15 bucks there for the bridges and parking.

Im not a luddite... but when it comes to "photo" anything that results in me getting a bill, I dont like it much. I have little faith in government doing the right thing in those cases.

Plus its a slippery slope that I dont think we should be going down.

[Keith P.]

Im not a luddite... but when it comes to "photo" anything that results in me getting a bill, I dont like it much. I have little faith in government doing the right thing in those cases.

Plus its a slippery slope that I dont think we should be going down.

You may not be a luddite, but you are part of the problem. If you insist on clinging to the old ways, you should be penalized for holding up the majority. Maybe make the cash lane stop and wait for 10 minutes or so via a traffic barrier.

[someone123]

Just curious, but what about out-of-province plates? Are we going to be sending $1 invoices all over the world now?

This is a real drawback but it is a corner case. The root question is whether the lost revenues from the percentage who can't be billed by an automated system are as large as the savings from moving away from physical money and tokens (do they even still make those?). On balance this is likely to be a big win if it's implemented reasonably well.

[scooby074]

You may not be a luddite, but you are part of the problem. If you insist on clinging to the old ways, you should be penalized for holding up the majority. Maybe make the cash lane stop and wait for 10 minutes or so via a traffic barrier.

Again.. stay the hell out of MY cash lane!

You can zip through the Macpass lanes at mach 10 if you so choose.

I dont want to be getting random bills in the mail from HD Bridge Commission. Plus I dont want them accessing my license and other information which will be required if photo based billing comes about.

What about when I drive vehicles belonging to others or they drive mine across the bridge? Then a license based bill comes at the end of the month to the vehicle RO. HDBC is just passing the bill collection onto the vehicle owner as opposed to the driver where it belongs.

Maybe my tinfoil hat is a bit tight, but so be it.

[hfx_chris]

Again.. stay the hell out of MY cash lane!

What's why I suggested earlier, on the MacKay, one lane in each direction should be cash, the other six each way, macpass only.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Isn't the issue where people are going following the tollbooth?

Its always busier in the two left lanes coming into Dartmouth because you can't merge across from the right ones (I remember everybody is going straight or left afterwards).

Maybe create more funneling toward the MicMac lanes, most people aren't going to downtown Dartmouth?

[W.Sobchak]

I'm with scoob on this one. A lane on either side to have A cash lane is not regressive if anything it's allowing the toll area to remain flexible. If I don't have a mac pass because I don't cross the bridge often enough, it should not mean I get a $1 bill (also probably including a process fee just to dig a bit more) in the mail when all I could have done is toss a loonie into the basket. Because otherwise, I'm probably not going to take the invoice very seriously.

Just to add the only efficient way to make sure those photo-fees, as far as I can see, are properly administered the gov't would have to roll them into either MVI, or Licence renewal. Would you want an accumulated bridge tab dropped on you at an already somewhat testing time.

[Keith P.]

Again.. stay the hell out of MY cash lane!

You can zip through the Macpass lanes at mach 10 if you so choose.

I dont want to be getting random bills in the mail from HD Bridge Commission. Plus I dont want them accessing my license and other information which will be required if photo based billing comes about.

What about when I drive vehicles belonging to others or they drive mine across the bridge? Then a license based bill comes at the end of the month to the vehicle RO. HDBC is just passing the bill collection onto the vehicle owner as opposed to the driver where it belongs.

Maybe my tinfoil hat is a bit tight, but so be it.

I'm surprised you use the bridge at all. Aren't you afraid of it falling down? ;)

You realize, of course, that your license plate is being photographed in all sorts of places already?

The vehicle owner is responsible for the use of their vehicle. Full stop. No issue there.

I think you should just drive around through Bedford instead of holding everyone else up while you search for a loonie.

I still like the idea of herding all the those who insist on paying cash into a holding pen on the toll plaza and only raising the gate a few times an hour. :haha:

[scooby074]

Can you enlighten me on this :"photographed in all sorts of places already"?

Im unaware of any provincial government license photography other than perhaps the automatic weigh scales on the TCH where the license picture could be linked back to the individual.

I dont have that much issue with the photograph itself, particularly by DOT because they already have the info on me (they have my vehicle info, my personal license info, driving record etc..) as part of their mandate. I do have issues with private or municipal government having full access to the entirety of info DOT has. If photobilling comes about, than everyone from the municipal HDBC to the PRIVATE Cobequid Pass group will have access to that trove of confidential, identifying information.

[Keith P.]

Every police car captures your image when it passes.

There are cameras galore at the toll plazas already.

There are many HRM and DTIR cameras along the roads.

Cameras are in many private parking lots.

Some of those sources have access to RMV info about you, some do not.

[Keith P.]

There's a story in the Herald today about the bike lane on the MacDonald Bridge:

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1182032-hrm-looks-at-fix-for-bike-lane-at-halifax-end-of-macdonald-bridge

Halifax city hall’s on-again, off-again attempt to correct the much-maligned bicycle lane design on the Macdonald bridge may be back on track.

A recent health-related report to regional council, submitted by Mayor Mike Savage, proposes to have the municipality “champion the development of a solution to the cycling connectivity challenges” at the Halifax end of the bridge.

The report is to be considered by council at its Tuesday session. If the lane design ever gets redone, it could happen during the bridge’s future re-decking project, it said.

That project is scheduled to begin next year.

Cyclists have for years complained about the Barrington Street entry point for bikes.

Some risk-taking users avoid Barrington by sliding their bikes under or lifting them over a safety guardrail along the busy road near the North Street side of the lane.

The Halifax approach to the bridge’s bike lane was part of a $55.3-million upgrade, completed in 1999, on the venerable suspended span.

The bicycle lane is on the north side of the bridge, separated from a pedestrian walkway.

In 2005, local bike enthusiasts at a public meeting were told changes were in the works to correct what some cyclists said was a big mistake when it was built. The municipality switched gears, though, and proposed solutions were shelved.


The problem is not the bike lane - the problem is the entire Halifax-side exit from the MacDonald. Car traffic there backs up every morning because the exits are poorly configured, and include facing the absurdity of an at-grade crosswalk immediately at the end of the bridge.

Of course the special-interest solution is focused on fixing only the bike lane and not addressing the real problem - what a shock.

The entire report is HERE (http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/140128ca1131.PDF) and is a fine example of wooly-headed thinking that wastes plenty of public funds. That is due for discussion in another thread.

[fenwick16]

I found pictures online showing a new bridge section that has been installed on the MacDonald Bridge. The new bridge sections look quite different than the current (old) sections. There doesn't seem to be the large trusses on the top side of the new bridge sections. Without the large, topside bridge trusses, commuters might get a better view of the city once it is completed. The bridge might also have a more open feel.

(source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/macdonald-bridge-bump-traffic-halifax-1.3279933)
http://i.cbc.ca/1.3280141.1445355736!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/li-macdonald-bridge-bump.png

(source: http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/2015/10/19/halifax-harbour-bridges-sorry-for-macdonald-closure.html)
http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2015/10/19/big-lift-web-more.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg

There are pictures of a physical model on the Halifax Harbour Bridges website - http://www.hdbc.ca/model-outputs/
The physical model illustrates the new sections on the left and the current (old) sections on the right.
http://www.hdbc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/modeloutput_DSCN5539.jpg


The company doing the work is the same company that re-decked the Lions Gate Bridge in Vancouver, which is considered to be a sister bridge to the MacDonald Bridge. Here are comparison shots of the Lions Gate Bridge before and after.
Lions Gate Bridge before: (source: http://www.surespan.com/construction-services/steel-precast-erection/lions-gate-bridge/)
http://surespan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Picture4.jpg

Lions Gate Bridge after: (source: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/12/15-vintage-pictures-vancouver-winter-now/)
http://assets.vancitybuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Lions-gate-bridge.jpg?056236

[connect2source]

As a Vancouver resident who witnessed the entire re-decking of the Lions Gate, you're in for a big treat in Halifax.

The bridge will feel, and to some degree, looks dramatically different when done. The trusses being moved below the deck makes the biggest difference. The new deck feels much wider, not only because of the increased lane width but also because of the claustrophobic giant trusses being gone which contributed to the 'boxed-in' feeling. The views, of course, which are awesome from the Lions Gate, greatly improved. Sadly, there's now talk of putting a suicide fence along the entire length.

The whole process went without a hitch here and it was fun driving over it as each new section was added.

In essence it will feel like a brand-new bridge when done and be a pleasure to cross!

Interesting enough there was a huge push to increase the width to accommodate 4 lanes of traffic but it was made impossible by the fact that the approach goes through Stanley Park and no one in Vancouver could stomach cutting down old trees to accommodate the new width of the Stanley Park Causeway ( the approach to the bridge ). Hence it remained narrow and the re-decking did nothing to alleviate the horrible back-ups which only get worse every year.

[Keith P.]

As a Vancouver resident who witnessed the entire re-decking of the Lions Gate, you're in for a big treat in Halifax.

The bridge will feel, and to some degree, looks dramatically different when done. The trusses being moved below the deck makes the biggest difference. The new deck feels much wider, not only because of the increased lane width but also because of the claustrophobic giant trusses being gone which contributed to the 'boxed-in' feeling. The views, of course, which are awesome from the Lions Gate, greatly improved. Sadly, there's now talk of putting a suicide fence along the entire length.

The whole process went without a hitch here and it was fun driving over it as each new section was added.

In essence it will feel like a brand-new bridge when done and be a pleasure to cross!

Interesting enough there was a huge push to increase the width to accommodate 4 lanes of traffic but it was made impossible by the fact that the approach goes through Stanley Park and no one in Vancouver could stomach cutting down old trees to accommodate the new width of the Stanley Park Causeway ( the approach to the bridge ). Hence it remained narrow and the re-decking did nothing to alleviate the horrible back-ups which only get worse every year.


Did drivers there cope with the bump where new sections meet up with the old by coming to a complete stop and then crawling over it? This behavior by drivers has made the bridge virtually useless.

We have the same trouble here with being unwilling to do anything to fix the backups, but for very different reasons. There is simply an unwillingness here to do what it takes to re-design the bottlenecks at either end. That is not sue to old-growth tress or anything worthy of preservation but rather simple intransigence and lack of vision.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Did drivers there cope with the bump where new sections meet up with the old by coming to a complete stop and then crawling over it? This behavior by drivers has made the bridge virtually useless.

At least buses weren't slowing the traffic down.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2677510966/

[connect2source]

Did drivers there cope with the bump where new sections meet up with the old by coming to a complete stop and then crawling over it? This behavior by drivers has made the bridge virtually useless.

The traffic on the Lions Gate is a crawl most hours of the day so I don't remember the bumps being too much of an issue. In Vancouver you feel like you've won the jackpot when you get two whole lanes in your direction!

Also I vaguely remember the initial bump being the worst, the first new section which connects the approach to the bridge deck, the subsequent ones may not be as bad.

[IanWatson]

Did drivers there cope with the bump where new sections meet up with the old by coming to a complete stop and then crawling over it? This behavior by drivers has made the bridge virtually useless.

Damn those drivers for not wanting to rip the bottom off their car!

[Ziobrop]

Damn those drivers for not wanting to rip the bottom off their car!

they still do it wrong. By slaming on the brakes, and crawling over the bump, they compress their suspensions, and actually take a bigger "hit" then they would if they didnt panic and rolled over the bump at tollboth speeds.

[Keith P.]

they still do it wrong. By slaming on the brakes, and crawling over the bump, they compress their suspensions, and actually take a bigger "hit" then they would if they didnt panic and rolled over the bump at tollboth speeds.

Exactly. Cars have suspension systems for a reason - to absorb bumps. This seems to escape drivers on the bridge for some reason. The "bump" is nominal at best. No reason for it to cause the kind of behavior we have seen.

[terrynorthend]

Are they ever going to actually put another section in the bridge? It seems like they got stalled the last time they had a reopening hiccup last month, and haven't added any since. Mind you they are still closing the bridge with clockwork regularity. (which sucks as we have evening classes at the Sportsplex most nights, and live just across the bridge, up North Street) It would be nice if things were progressing somewhat.

[fenwick16]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5s3VbOWYAAeFwK.jpg:large
(source: https://twitter.com/David_Hendsbee)

The last new section has been installed. What do people think of the renewed bridge? Just looking at pictures, it looks much better than before and there appears to be a better view of downtown Halifax.

[IanWatson]

I think part of me will always have a soft spot for the old trusses; there's something eminently impressive about engineering in the pre-computer age. That said, the "new" bridge does look great, and I'm in absolute awe over the process to get here. Everyone involved in that project should be proud.

[Keith P.]

The last new section has been installed. What do people think of the renewed bridge? Just looking at pictures, it looks much better than before and there appears to be a better view of downtown Halifax.

I think it looks much more open and better in that respect. I do wonder if they will be using a more elegant approach to transitioning the hanger cables to the new deck. Right now it looks very temporary with pieces of large threaded rod and steel plates attached to the old hangers.

[fenwick16]

I think it looks much more open and better in that respect. I do wonder if they will be using a more elegant approach to transitioning the hanger cables to the new deck. Right now it looks very temporary with pieces of large threaded rod and steel plates attached to the old hangers.

It seems that there are still several months of work remaining, including replacing the suspender cables - http://globalnews.ca/news/3274082/big-lift-macdonald-bridge-project-reaches-milestone-over-the-weekend/. Everything except the two main suspension cables, and towers will be replaced.

[terrynorthend]

That said, the "new" bridge does look great, and I'm in absolute awe over the process to get here. Everyone involved in that project should be proud.

Oh crap! Does this mean we need to start calling the MacKay the "old" bridge and the MacDonald the "new" bridge now?

[TheGreenBastard]

Oh crap! Does this mean we need to start calling the MacKay the "old" bridge and the MacDonald the "new" bridge now?

Mackay: old new bridge
Macdonald: new old bridge

[connect2source]

The Lions Gate and MacDonald bridges are once again twins!! I have nothing but positive things to say about the Lions Gate re-decking, it's made the experience far more pleasurable, views are greatly improved and lanes are wider, no downside, the old trusses made the crossing seem claustrophobic and lanes were dangerously narrow, as, like the MacDonald bridge, the deck was designed for 2 lanes not 3. Can't wait to drive over the 'new' MacDonald bridge next time I visit!

[eastcoastal]

mackay: Old new bridge
macdonald: New old bridge

yes!!

[Keith P.]

Unless I am very mistaken it appears that the HDBC is spending a bunch of toll revenue on landscaping the interior areas of the Windmlill Rd/111 interchange ramp loops. I am of two minds on this. While I do not like the overgrown weed-infested appearance these areas typically have in this province, I'm unsure how this became a priority.

[Dartguard]

Well Keith it may be a public safety issue as I have almost run into Deer in that section of highway at least three times. The bush is a great place to hide for a curious Venison.

[Keith P.]

Well Keith it may be a public safety issue as I have almost run into Deer in that section of highway at least three times. The bush is a great place to hide for a curious Venison.

Perhaps that is it. Many other places could use similar care. The roadsides of most of our 100-series highways are sadly neglected.

[Keith P.]

A very dangerous new development on the horizon:

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/local/climate-activist-group-plans-to-block-macdonald-bridge-358547/



Halifax commuters may be stalled at the Macdonald bridge during their morning rush-hour commute next week.

Extinction Rebellion Nova Scotia, an environmental group pressuring governments to act on the climate crisis, plans to take over the Macdonald bridge on Oct. 7 as part of Extinction Rebellion Canada’s nationwide #BridgeOut campaign.

“The theme is bridge out because right now the bridge to the future is out,” Patrick Yancey, member of the Extinction Rebellion, said in an interview Monday.

The group plans to start the blockade at 7 a.m. and will go on for as long as possible, Yancey said.

In April, Extinction Rebellion members held peaceful protests at four different sites in London, England, including the Waterloo Bridge, for about a week. More than 600 people were arrested.

“Specific people involved will, of course, be planning on doing civil disobedience and getting arrested on Monday,” said Yancey.

In May, Yancey and another member of Extinction Rebellion were arrested for blocking an SUV when Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was in Antigonish, but later released without charges.

“If you’ve been involved in the environmental movement, you’ve probably been doing petitions and flyering and marches for decades and they’ve just ignored all of that, essentially,” Yancey said.

“This escalation of tactics is the minimum of what’s necessary to give young people - and I have children so I’m thinking about them - the best shot at a livable planet because we’ve already gone past the point where we can guarantee them that.”

Extinction Rebellion Nova Scotia is demanding the stoppage of work on the Alton Gas site, holding the deadline for the closure of the Boat Harbour pipe and ending coal and other fossil fuel plants by 2021.

“We just hope this helps jolt our decision makers out of their kind of stupor that they’ve been in and get them to take some action on the climate crisis,” Yancey said.

Yancey acknowledged commuters will be frustrated by the commute disruption, but said it’s a small price to pay.

“They should absolutely not have to be dealing with this and we’re very sorry that their commute has to be disrupted like this,” Yancey said.

“This disruption, though, is really minor compared to the kinds of disruptions we’re going to see with the climate crisis. We view this as a minor disruption now that can hopefully stave off cataclysmic disruptions later and even human extinction.”

Extinction Rebellion has halted traffic before, temporarily blocking off the Armdale Rotary, and doesn’t plan to stop “shutting down business as usual” until they’re heard.

“We won’t be letting up until we feel like they’re doing what they can to give the next generation a good shot at a livable planet,” Yancey said.

“We hope to keep escalating until they listen and unite behind the science.”




Time to mobilize public safety organizations, not just the police riot squad but also perhaps the military. This type of action cannot be tolerated or permitted. From the statements by the leaders - "we hope to keep escalating" - of this extremist group it would not be outside the realm of possibility for them to try to damage or destroy the bridge.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The problem with activities like this, is that it mostly just creates bad feelings and doesn't lead to actual changes. The group is viewed as extremists who just want to make trouble, and their cause is lost.

And, their goals seem a little over ambitious... "ending coal and other fossil fuel plants by 2021". Sorry, it's just not that easy. The movement is towards eliminating coal/fossil fuel plants but it has to be replaced with something. Maybe they might want to focus on places where it's a real problem, like China? https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/ Perhaps they should be blocking some main arterials in Beijing...

I sure hope that no emergency vehicles get caught up in these shenanigans, resulting in the death of an innocent person...

[Dartguard]

A very dangerous new development on the horizon:

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/local/climate-activist-group-plans-to-block-macdonald-bridge-358547/





Time to mobilize public safety organizations, not just the police riot squad but also perhaps the military. This type of action cannot be tolerated or permitted. From the statements by the leaders - "we hope to keep escalating" - of this extremist group it would not be outside the realm of possibility for them to try to damage or destroy the bridge.

Interesting Keith, I wonder which side of the Bridge they are going to try to block? The Dartmouth Side will of course cause the most disruption and the Halifax side is too close to Stads side entrance. The police should only permit these folks to protest on the old NSLC site behind the construction fence. Come over the fence go to jail.

[Keith P.]

Interesting Keith, I wonder which side of the Bridge they are going to try to block? The Dartmouth Side will of course cause the most disruption and the Halifax side is too close to Stads side entrance. The police should only permit these folks to protest on the old NSLC site behind the construction fence. Come over the fence go to jail.

Since they are likely being Soros funded I say arrest them and charge them to the fullest extent of the law. Might as well make a little money from his shenanigans.

[Keith P.]

Well, the trumpeted number of 600 protesters turned out to be about 40 crazies, but that didn't stop HRM from totally bending over and making the morning commute hellish for thousands. HRM Police blocked the entire bridge for hours and would not let pedestrians or cyclists cross either. So the biggest hazard faced by citizens was from the police.

This is a good snapshot of what the protesters were like:

https://twitter.com/HEINTZMANEWS957/status/1181164344983330816

While the cyclist exhibited considerable restraint and wasn't as self-entitled and obnoxious as they often are, the protesters on the other hand demonstrated utterly clueless zealotry and were quite offensive to her. I am reminded of how easily youth are led to believe that things are black and white and that they fully understand things that in truth are very complex indeed. If their views are being obtained through the education system this is very troubling.

The entire response by leadership of HRPD and HHB, along with any direction they may have received from govts or political figures, needs to be examined closely to ensure this sort of debacle is not repeated.

[Haliguy]

Crossed the Mackay Bridge this morning that bad at all.

[OldDartmouthMark]

There were some traffic backups this morning, but nothing approaching the level of anarchy and disaster that I'm sure the protestors were hoping for. Perhaps they didn't realize that the city has already been well-versed in Macdonald Bridge closures over the past few years? ;) It seemed like: "oh, the Macdonald is closed again... OK, let's go to plan B...". :D

Regarding the police closing the entire bridge, I don't think it's unreasonable, given that they were not allowing the protesters to pass the tolls and actually populate the bridge (perhaps worried about angry protestors trying to permanently damage the bridge so that it would be closed for a longer time?)

It seems to me that if they closed off the span to keep protestors off, but kept bicycle and pedestrian lanes open, it wouldn't take long for the protesters to figure out that they could get onto the span using these access points, and perhaps injure themselves trying to climb fences etc to occupy the vehicle lanes...

Basically, when the bridge is closed, it's closed for everybody. Fair enough.

[Keith P.]

Regarding the police closing the entire bridge, I don't think it's unreasonable, given that they were not allowing the protesters to pass the tolls and actually populate the bridge (perhaps worried about angry protestors trying to permanently damage the bridge so that it would be closed for a longer time?)

It seems to me that if they closed off the span to keep protestors off, but kept bicycle and pedestrian lanes open, it wouldn't take long for the protesters to figure out that they could get onto the span using these access points, and perhaps injure themselves trying to climb fences etc to occupy the vehicle lanes...

Basically, when the bridge is closed, it's closed for everybody. Fair enough.

Yes, I get that, but that is not what was stated for the past week. So you had people showing up expecting to be able to walk across or (god forbid) use the bike lane only to be disappointed. But this is why the entire protest should have been preemptively shut down before it even started.

I note with interest that the ringleader, Patrick Yancey, is from Antigonish, so he presumably had to drive here for this. He is from Atlanta and has also lived in the Netherlands, South Korea and Spain. All that travel must have generated a lot of CO2.

[someone123]

I note with interest that the ringleader, Patrick Yancey, is from Antigonish, so he presumably had to drive here for this. He is from Atlanta and has also lived in the Netherlands, South Korea and Spain. All that travel must have generated a lot of CO2.

I would assume that like Greta Thunberg he had a team of international yacht builders come together to make him a multimillion dollar sailing ship to cut down on the environmental impact.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I would assume that like Greta Thunberg he had a team of international yacht builders come together to make him a multimillion dollar sailing ship to cut down on the environmental impact.

:haha:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Yes, I get that, but that is not what was stated for the past week. So you had people showing up expecting to be able to walk across or (god forbid) use the bike lane only to be disappointed. But this is why the entire protest should have been preemptively shut down before it even started.

I note with interest that the ringleader, Patrick Yancey, is from Antigonish, so he presumably had to drive here for this. He is from Atlanta and has also lived in the Netherlands, South Korea and Spain. All that travel must have generated a lot of CO2.

Not to mention all the unnecessary CO2 emitted to the atmosphere this morning as all those cars and trucks idled in the artificially created traffic jam on the 111. Apparently a lot of vehicles bypassed the bridges today and drove around the basin through Bedford... traffic was lined up to the top of Dartmouth Road going inbound. Overall, there wasn't traffic mayhem, but certainly the carbon footprint of today's protest would have been fairly high... I wonder if they bought carbon credits like Trudeau has with his fleet of jets...:haha:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGRieMZWsAEI0UA.jpg
https://twitter.com/hfxtraffic?lang=en

Yup. Well done. :rolleyes:

[bluenoser]

A new New Bridge may be required by 2040.

As MacKay Bridge nears end of its lifespan, N.S. eyes replacement or repair
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-harbour-bridges-macdonald-mckay-plaza-tolls-toll-1.6814240

[OldDartmouthMark]

This is great! We will finally be able to call it the "new bridge" with a clear conscience! :haha:

[q12]

Financial Measures (2024) Act announced today is proposing:

authorizing Halifax Harbour Bridges to collect licence plate information and allowing the commission and Registry of Motor Vehicles to share plateholder information, which will allow for modernization of toll systems on the Macdonald and MacKay bridges and pave the way for removing toll booths

https://news.novascotia.ca/en/2024/03/05/financial-measures-2024-act-introduced

[ns_kid]

Financial Measures (2024) Act announced today is proposing:

https://news.novascotia.ca/en/2024/03/05/financial-measures-2024-act-introduced

This is very encouraging, if long overdue. It's frustrating to realize that HHB has been looking at this since at least 2017. (The engineering firm AECOM submitted its report in late 2019, with a forecast project completion by the start of 2022.)

We're still likely years away, given that changes to the road network and toll plazas will have to be completed. And UARB has to approve changes to the fare system and that, as far as I know, has yet to happen.

Here's what the AECOM report proposed for the Macdonald approaches:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53569985841_bacd0b6d58_c.jpg

And for the MacKay approaches:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53570182988_990f3e6a2b_c.jpg

Artist rendering of the proposed MacKay approaches following removal of the toll plaza:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53570434725_f9da9a0b9d_c.jpg

[IanWatson]

Interestingly, the Commissionaires declined to bid on the tollbooth staffing contract for the first time in 60+ years.