Downtown Fort Worth needs.......

[JJG]

What do you think Fort Worth's downtown area needs? Just look at it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/FortWorthTexasSkylineW.jpg

You already know about Sundance Square and how most of the older buildings are redeveloped. So based on whatever knowledge you have on Downtown (if you've been here or not), what do you think is best for downtown ?

[Austin55]

Personnaly,Ive always wanted to head towards pier 1(now cheasapekakapekaepkeapke) with some dense,multi styled development in there,all while adding more street life everywhere. NO MORE SKYSCRAPERS YET,please.

Mixed high rises and pedestrian level projects.

[tjh1]

^^^I agree. Downtown still has surface parking lots that need to be filled with quality midrise structures, lets fill those and then start talking about more highrises.

[travelinmiles]

I would like to see some mix used development (maybe a few tower) and good infill over off Jones and Calhoun near the ITC. That area has a lot of potential since its near the TRE, it also seems like a logical place for new office space.

[JJG]

There were some plans to turn one of the surface lots next to the ITC into a 60-story, 900 ft. mixed use tower and that open spot where the Landmark Tower once stood was supposed to be the new 50 story XTO Headquarters.... but in true Fort Worth fasion, those were cancelled.

Don't get me wrong, downtown does need to fill in some of those surface lots with something. But can't we get at least ONE 50+ story skyscraper anytime soon?

And what about some of the eyesores, Burnett Plaza, the Southwestern Bell Building, and City Hall ? If you ask me, Burnett could at least be redone, but what about imploding the other two for, let's say, better projects?
I know money and support is a big factor for that. That's why I made this thread. I'd probably disagree with half of you, because I really, REALLY want to see downtown grow UP while growing out.

[Atomic Glee]

Downtown Fort Worth doesn't need to get any taller at the moment - and I'd say it doesn't need to get any taller *ever* but I know how that sentiment goes around these parts.

It needs more density in the form of pedestrian-activated buildings between, say, 4-20 stories, replacing the vacant lots.

[JJG]

^^^ I agree that Fort Worth needs more density.... and I also think Fort Worth needs to have more buildings that are at least 30 stories high.

I'll admit, I'm a fan of big skylines. And I would love for Fort Worth to have at least 5 more taller skyscrapers.
But don't get me wrong. I don't think our skyline should try to compete with Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, or Houston. But I just believe that Fort Worth is just a little behind in the skyline department. Once again, this city shouldn't try to have the "model skyline of the world" or anything like that, but even some of you have to admit, Fort Worth deserves better than what it has.

[travelinmiles]

I think the mos of the periphery of downtown is way underutilized. I think that the upper west side would be great for highrise development as well as the area near ITC. I would love to see the Tandy subway reopened and extended someway or another.

[Atomic Glee]

I think the mos of the periphery of downtown is way underutilized. I think that the upper west side would be great for highrise development as well as the area near ITC. I would love to see the Tandy subway reopened and extended someway or another.

There was a proposal in the '70s to extend the Tandy subway to run under the entire downtown:

http://fortworthology.com/2008/07/14/old-plan-to-extend-leonards-subway/

The subway is pretty well gone forever at this point, I think. A large section of it was covered (and may even have been destroyed) by the Radio Shack headquarters. The current plan being developed by the city is a modern streetcar system linking downtown and the surrounding urban villages (Cultural District, Near Southside, etc.).

[travelinmiles]

Atomic, I constantly check fortworthology and JTR's site, I enjoy both sites and read them daily considering I live in Philadelphia now. I have to keep on top what is going on back home. I was thinking they sealed it but didnt destroy it. Talk about a blunder, destroying a subway for a suburban style corporate campus. At any rate, I think ultra light transit like the subway would be a good fit for Fort Worth considering it would be much faster than the ultra-light trolley running at grade. What would be the feasibility of bring something like that back? Where would you all propose this subway extension to run, in conjunction with the new development we are proposing in this thread?

[Atomic Glee]

At any rate, I think ultra light transit like the subway would be a good fit for Fort Worth considering it would be much faster than the ultra-light trolley running at grade.

The pros and cons have been gone over, but most of the developers and planners here in the city believe the on-street modern streetcar would be better for the purpose we intend than a dedicated right-of-way system. These would not be long-distance lines running to the far-flung parts of the city, but rather a pedestrian-accelerating modern streetcar linking downtown and the rapidly redeveloping neighborhoods that immediately surround it like the Cultural District, the Near Southside, Trinity Uptown, Six Points, and others. They're not intended to run the long distances of, say, your typical DART line. Considering the compactness of Fort Worth's urban heart (none of these lines would need to be more than a few miles long), I'd say it's a very effective plan.

Longer distance travel from the suburbs will be filled at first by lines like the in-progress Southwest to Northeast line using existing right of way and RDCs.

I doubt a subway would be practical in reality for Fort Worth. The urban heart sits just above the bedrock, making excavation very difficult and expensive.

[JJG]

Just askin'....

How would you feel about a new arena on W 7th, next to the Monty Ward Plaza?
The arena doesn't have to be huge, but big enough for ....let's say.... a WNBA franchise.
What do ya think?

[Atomic Glee]

Not a big sports person myself, so I may be the wrong one to ask. :) There's a new arena on the way for the Will Rogers Memorial Center, to replace both the existing arena there (which will not be torn down, just used for less busy activities) and the Convention Center area (which *will* be torn down after the new arena opens and replaced by more convention center space).

I'd have loved to see the land east of Montgomery Plaza be used for urban infill, and that was the old plan - but that developer sold out to Chesapeake Energy, and I'm sure they'll be plunking gas wells on it instead. Grr.

West of Montgomery Plaza, between there and University, is the Linwood neighborhood, which is a low-income neighborhood that dates from just after World War II. Already, though, I've been told that InCap Fund is buying up lot after lot there in preparation for another big mixed-use development at some point in the future.

[travelinmiles]

An arena in an old industrial area maybe East Lancaster between 35 and 287 or 35 between 121 and northside drive. I would like to see some development along the river east of 35 where Rock Island Bottoms once was.

[JJG]

Not a big sports person myself, so I may be the wrong one to ask. :) There's a new arena on the way for the Will Rogers Memorial Center, to replace both the existing arena there (which will not be torn down, just used for less busy activities) and the Convention Center area (which *will* be torn down after the new arena opens and replaced by more convention center space).

I'd have loved to see the land east of Montgomery Plaza be used for urban infill, and that was the old plan - but that developer sold out to Chesapeake Energy, and I'm sure they'll be plunking gas wells on it instead. Grr.

West of Montgomery Plaza, between there and University, is the Linwood neighborhood, which is a low-income neighborhood that dates from just after World War II. Already, though, I've been told that InCap Fund is buying up lot after lot there in preparation for another big mixed-use development at some point in the future.

Yeah, that land east of MP, to me would be perfect for an arena. But I had no idea the land was sold to Chesapeake Energy... which is kind of ironic because the name I would have chosen would be "Chesapeake Energy Center".
Before I leave in a few weeks, I think I'll head to downtown and the Cultural District.


....And I'm not tryin' to pick a fight with anyone.... but seriously, who we're the two that voted for "Just plant some trees and add some statues". I mean, really?

[Atomic Glee]

I'm not sure I'd put an arena there - I could see that area being filled up with lots of nice, dense infill. I guess it's a moot point, though, since Chesapeake is going to ruin it.

Incidentally, could we rethink the name - XTO has done more for the city than Chesapeake. :) Chesapeake's getting kind of a bad rep around here.

[JJG]

I am not a big fan of arenas in urban environments in general because their size makes them incompatible with a good pedestrian environment in many ways. Obviously, there are exceptions and ways around this.

Well thanks for your input. There's just soooooo much land around the area, to me, the possibilities are endless...... well, there would be some things that just couldn't be built because of size issues and everything, but you know what I mean. And XTO would be a good name, as well.
BTW, nice updates. You got any updates on light rail in FW?

[donclark]

Outside of downtown, Fort Worth doesn't have much high density areas. About the only place light rail will get enough ridership is from downtown to the hospital district south of downtown. There's a few buildings by Ridgemar Mall and another few buildings near Benbrook and Hulen Mall, that's it. Arlington has a few buildings near the Ballpark. No density, light rail isn't suitable. The best I can see is a street car trams to the hospital district from downtown and possibly the stockyards.

I think Fort Worth would be better off with commuter rail system from downtown to Grapevine, to Arlington, and to the Hulen Mall area. The one going to Grapevine and DFW airport, to downtown Arlington area and the new Cowboys and Rangers stadiums, and to Hulen Mall. Otherwise, I don't even think commuter rail is suitable.

Face it, Fort Worth doesn't have Dallas Uptown area, or a Central Expressway and LBJ corridor. Nor does Fort Worth have a Las Colinas and Stemmons corridor either. Without density, light rail won't work, one would be better off with buses. Most of the apartment complexes are near Hulen Mall, towards Arlington east of the loop, and north by the loop in Haltom City. I think if Fort Worth builds rail, a sw to ne line thru downtown to DFW is the best bet.

[Atomic Glee]

We're not doing light rail. We're doing commuter rail and a modern streetcar.

The Cultural District and the Near Southside are both becoming hotbeds of infill. The ridership between the two and downtown (and these are the two areas that will first be connected by the streetcar) should be just fine. The city and developers seem to think so. I agree with them, personally.

I'm not sure why you dismiss the Cultural District - if you haven't been there lately, the amount of infill construction going on there is huge.

The city is starting to realize that it's not just about moving people from the far-flung regions into the city. We're starting to get serious about moving people around the increasingly developing central city. Even the Mayor has been speaking in favor of the streetcar and other rail projects.

[Atomic Glee]

Incidentally, the city now has a page on its site about the streetcar:

http://www.fortworthgov.org/planninganddevelopment/default.aspx?id=57270

While I'm on the subject, it didn't get much press, but the City Council has already voted yes on demolishing the current 7th Street bridge over the Trinity and building a new bridge that would include streetcar infrastructure.

[travelinmiles]

That is nice but I would like to see the city change its land use policies beyond loop 820 to be conducive for more TOD and TND. That way we can be a much more transit friendly city. By the way, what do you all think it would take for The "T" to get more of our suburban areas to join, i.e. Arlington, Benbrook, Southlake, Cleburne, Weatherford as part of a rapid and bus transit system. I also noticed that the master plan for Walsh Ranch and the Burleson Comprehensive plan have provisions for Mass Transit both seem like logical commuter rail stops, WR being suited as a light rail termini.

[JJG]

... I gotta admit, half of me does want to see that bridge gone (or at least widened). But I'd hate to tear down history.
Personally, I think The "T" should expand to Arlington. At least plan for Super Bowl XLV, I mean, 2011 not that far away.....

[travelinmiles]

I would hope the T expands. The Fort Worth Metro is incredibly underserved by transit.

[John R]

JJG, according to TxDOT and the Texas Historical Commission, the 7th Street Bridge is not eligible for historic designation because it has been altered too much and too many times. The only section of the bridge that is somewhat original is the last bay, right under Cash America. That is the section that spanned over the riverbed. Since then, the river has been moved westward and it now crosses under a 1950's section of the bridge that is not particularly remarkable.

[JJG]

^^^ Well, I just hope construction won't take too long.

[travelinmiles]

With the Seventh Street Corridor booming, Downtown in the last 40 years has been lacking in the retail department. Where do you all think Fort Worth's downtown retail core should be. I think Lancaster would be great for high end department stores and boutiques, possibly stores extending through the old financial district up to Sundance? What do you all think?

[Atomic Glee]

I could definitely see the area between the newly reborn Lancaster and the Omni become home to new mixed-use developments that feature high-end retail. There's quite a few vacant lots down there to infill, plus all the new Lancaster frontage that has opened up.

[travelinmiles]

I agree, what do you all think is the best means of linking such a district with the 7th Street Corridor.