Vancouver Politics

[Stingray2004]

Now that Gregor Robertson has won the Vision Vancouver mayoral nomination, how would SSP posters vote between the two main contenders, the other being Peter Ladner of the NPA.

It's also very doubtful that COPE will also now be running a mayoral candidate.

For an archive of previous conversations, visit: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152797

[deasine]

I'm sorry VV, I gave you a chance, but since Gregor won, back to NPA for me.

[jlousa]

I'll be voting for Ladner for strictly selfish reasons. :tup:

[deasine]

Edit:

People have to recast their votes... I accidentally "merged" a thread incorrectly...

Holy Cow that's just a huge sweeping win for Robertson.

Vision Vancouver has chosen the man it hopes will lead the centre-left party to victory come November’s civic elections.

Gregor Robertson was declared the winner today of the fledgling civic political party’s first member-driven nomination meeting.

He will run for mayor under the Vision Vancouver banner, which was created when former Mayor Larry Campbell and three of his colleagues split from the COPE party three years ago.

Robertson won with 3,495 votes, compared with 2,244 for Raymond Louie, and Al DeGenova for third-place finisher 981.

Robertson will now battle for the mayor’s chair against Peter Ladner and the ruling Non-Partisan Association, which last week took the unusual step of turfing its incumbent Mayor Sam Sullivan as the party leader.
More to come.

[MistyMountainHop]

Go Gregor Go!

[flight_from_kamakura]

yoohoo! nice.

robertson will almost certainly be elected, which is pretty cool (to me). honestly, as festival season continues to roll in montreal, portland, san francisco, etc., vancouver falls even further down the lame hole. it's just desperately obvious that we need cope light back in there to fix what sammy has so badly mangled... seriously, tickets for jaywalking... lol, gregor for archon!

[Stingray2004]

Here's the way I now see Vancouver's political landscape:

Ladner is the NPA's mayoral nominee... back to the more centrist federal Liberal mold with a higher profile candidate.

VV:

De Genova - on the right of VV and attracted people, inclusive of federal Liberals and various ethnic groups, who were disenchanted by Sullivan... they will likely flock back to the NPA;

Robertson - in the middle of of VV attracting centrist New Democrats and federal Liberals;

Louie - on the left of VV attracting centre-left New Democrats and various ethnic groups;

The problem for VV is left-wing COPE and its "common platform" requirement. The same COPE that was more interested in flakey motions on "opposition to militarization of space", Vancouver being a "Nuclear weapons free zone", and class warfare against Walmart.

Robertson is gonna have many problems co-opting a platform with COPE and many VV supporters will get turned off if he does.

Eg. Robertson proposes a shift in the property tax burden from business to residential, which even Louie opposed. That plank just ain't gonna fly with COPE.

Vancouver's political dynamic is gonna get interesting!

[ravman]

Gregor All The Way...

[Hed Kandi]

http://www.gregorbc.ca/about

I wasn't aware that Gregor Robertson was the founder of Happy Planet. :eek: I LOVE those juices!


This guy gets my vote! :bowtie:

[WarrenC12]

I'm happy with both candidates, so far. It should be a good mayoral race this time around. Not sure who I'm voting for, but I'll be watching any debates and listening for their plans on various issues. I am leaning towards Gregor so far.

What I know for sure: the new mayor will be better than the old mayor!

[djh]

Whilst I think both candidates are good choices for Vancouver (certainly 100% better than I-Am-Sam), I still feel a little sorry for Raymond Louie. He sat on that despicable council for 3 years, put up with (and generated a lot of) pointless debate and pedantic self-serving conversation, and what happens? Superstar Robertson parachutes in from the heavens without having sat on a single city committee or done any civic work, and he gets the shot at the majoralty. Sucks to be you, Ray.

Having said that, I'd rather see Robertson as mayoral candidate than Louie. Both are young, but Louie is too young and doesn't yet have the gravitas or experience I'd want in the guy that represents the over half a million of us.

[deasine]

Whilst I think both candidates are good choices for Vancouver (certainly 100% better than I-Am-Sam), I still feel a little sorry for Raymond Louie. He sat on that despicable council for 3 years, put up with (and generated a lot of) pointless debate and pedantic self-serving conversation, and what happens? Superstar Robertson parachutes in from the heavens without having sat on a single city committee or done any civic work, and he gets the shot at the majoralty. Sucks to be you, Ray.

My thoughts exactly. I didn't like Gregor from the start [dunno why...], and I can't see someone with no municipal experience expect to be the head poncho of the city. I wouldn't mind if he had recent experience in City Hall, but he's got none. Meanwhile, both Louie and De Genova has years of experience in civil politics, Louie as councilor and De Genova as park commissioner. Sure Robertson has experience in politics, but only provincial. I rather him replace Carole James -_-"

[djh]

It goes back to a comment running in another thread, where people were saying Trevor Linden should be mayor. Just because somebody is popular and has a level head, doesn't mean they know a thing about running a city or civic politics. We've got to remember this isn't a popularity contest. We want the best person for the job, not the best-looking person.

[MistyMountainHop]

Hmm ... "not enough experience".

This sounds awfully familiar. :rolleyes:

[WarrenC12]

My thoughts exactly. I didn't like Gregor from the start [dunno why...], and I can't see someone with no municipal experience expect to be the head poncho of the city.

Well, we missed having Christy Clark as a mayor by about 60 votes (assuming NPA would have still won last time, which I think is a given). We got Sammy instead, making sure he trademarked EcoDensity... great priorities jackass. :tup:

I hated her as education minister, but she makes a good radio show host on CKNW. As mayor? Who knows. I like to give new blood the benefit of the doubt.

[flight_from_kamakura]

hmm... well i don't know, let's look at recent history:

philip owen - no council experience = decent mayor with bouts of extreme ineffectiveness
mayor larry - no council experience = badly informed, bored mayor, heavily dependent on city and mayoral staff, as well as jim green
sammy - lots of council experience = miopic, petty mayor, with control issues, small scale election-ready initiatives, and a bland vision.

in effect, there seems to be no correlation between experience at city hall and good stewardship of the city (well, as much as any 'weak mayor' can steward a city). really, it's all personality, temperament, judgment, and life experience.

so yeah, if the npa's "let the bureaucrats run the city" no-funism isn't enough to get you onto the gregor train, it at least seems reasonable to suggest that the juice king's lack of council experience is a pretty bad reason to go with ladner.

[ravman]

hmm... well i don't know, let's look at recent history:

philip owen - no council experience = decent mayor with bouts of extreme ineffectiveness
mayor larry - no council experience = badly informed, bored mayor, heavily dependent on city and mayoral staff, as well as jim green
sammy - lots of council experience = miopic, petty mayor, with control issues, small scale election-ready initiatives, and a bland vision.

in effect, there seems to be no correlation between experience at city hall and good stewardship of the city (well, as much as any 'weak mayor' can steward a city). really, it's all personality, temperament, judgment, and life experience.

so yeah, if the npa's "let the bureaucrats run the city" no-funism isn't enough to get you onto the gregor train, it at least seems reasonable to suggest that the juice king's lack of council experience is a pretty bad reason to go with ladner.

lol Gregor has what it takes to run the city and heck i think he has what it takes to run not only this province but this country unlike Kyoto's master, who thankfully is still living at Stornoway.


Stornoway, is the residence of the leader of the opposition of Parliament
Kyoto is the name of Dion's dog

[Stingray2004]

Seems like Robertson is already making some rookie political mistakes.

From CKNW:

A day after elected as Vision Vancouver’s mayoral candidate Gregor Robertson says he will be a 'tough love' mayor if elected.

Robertson says he'll be an 'activist' mayor...tough on the issues and making sure the city works 'constructively' with Victoria and Ottawa...standing up for what the city deserves.

He says outgoing mayor Sam Sullivan was too 'cozy' with the higher levels of government....

"I think we've had a mayor that's been too slack and too cozy and backroom with our provincial and federal partners and so we need to have some tough love there."

And already some rumblings...

From CKNW:

Meanwhile Ladner's concerned Robertson’s already putting up roadblocks with Victoria....

"If the mayor's seat in Vancouver is going to be seen to be a place to take shots at the provincial government I think that's somewhat troubling for the prospects for our city."

Having a good/poor relationship with other levels of government determines the level of financial co-operation from those senior government levels.

Glen Clark's anti-Ottawa tirades versus Campbell's excellent relationship with both the previous Liberal and current Tory gov'ts provides an excellent example and contrast of how those good relationships have paid off.

I just hope Robertson isn't gonna become Metro Vancouver's second Derek Corrigan with today's musings.

Ya can get more with honey than ya can with vinegar.

[flight_from_kamakura]

^ maybe, but the guy is an ndp opposition mla, and his immediate task is to get cope on board for his mayoral nomination. from that perspective, it's not really a 'mistake' to bash gordo and steve, it's sort of a strategy. that said, if he's saying these things in october (or december!), then i'd say it's a bit more serious.

[Stingray2004]

the guy is an ndp opposition mla, and his immediate task is to get cope on board for his mayoral nomination.

I dunno if you're aware ... but COPE had already previously stated that it would not run a mayoral candidate if Robertson is the VV mayoral candidate and COPE's Ellen Woodsworth has made numerous outreaches to VV to no avail for a long period of time.

There was no need for any of Robertson's musings.


from that perspective, it's not really a 'mistake' to bash gordo and steve, it's sort of a strategy.

Silly strategy if ya ask me.

Firstly the latest Mustel poll has the provincial Liberals with a huge 18 point spread over the New Democrats (49% - 31%), with the Liberals up 3% from the 2005 election and the NDP down 11%.

Ya don't wanna disaffect centrist voters.

Secondly, Robertson was to be the centrist, all-inclusive, big-tent candidate for VV attracting disaffected NPA voters for a win.

Heck, VV candidate Al De Genova himself is provincially Liberal aligned.

With Robertson's comments today, he has blown off many Al De Genova's supporters and many of Robertson's own provincial Liberal supporters.

Them supporters, over time, will likely now drift over to centrist "federal Liberal" Ladner.

Really, what Robertson has mused today is about picking future fights with senior levels of governments as mayor. And not only ain't that a good political strategy but his opposite, Ladner, has seized on the matter.

Sheesh, Robertson now can't deny same during the pre-election period.

[MistyMountainHop]

Heck, VV candidate Al De Genova himself is provincially Liberal aligned.

Yeah, and look at all the votes that got him! :rolleyes:

[Stingray2004]

Heck, VV candidate Al De Genova himself is provincially Liberal aligned.

Yeah, and look at all the votes that got him! :rolleyes:

From Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun civic political columnist:

A lot of the support [Al De Genova] thought he had going into Sunday evaporated after Ladner succeeded in edging out Mayor Sam Sullivan for the mayoral nomination at the NPA the previous week.

In other words, the "Sam Sullivan factor" is now gone and already there are those that previously flocked over to VV who are now flocking back to the NPA.

Don't get me wrong... Robertson is a good guy but he's already shooting himself in the foot, which could only mean further movement from VV back to the NPA.

One thing I still can't figure out however... Robertson is in favour of shifting the municipal property tax burden away from business toward residences (supported by De Genova but opposed by Louie).

How Robertson will be able to reconcile that position with COPE is anyone's guess.

[deasine]

Well in the Global News report this morning, he's already attacking Ladner about his "environmental stance." Ladner is not the greenest guy in the city, but he's not bad either, though I'm pretty sure Robertson is greener... still, he himself said he wants to keep it a clean campaign but I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe it's because of provincial politics influence.

In other words, the "Sam Sullivan factor" is now gone and already there are those that previously flocked over to VV who are now flocking back to the NPA.

That's exactly my position.

It's going to be a close call for this election, like last time [haha the "jims" thank god Jim Green didn't get elected]...

[WarrenC12]

Glen Clark's anti-Ottawa tirades versus Campbell's excellent relationship with both the previous Liberal and current Tory gov'ts provides an excellent example and contrast of how those good relationships have paid off.

I'd like to believe that, but do you have some specific examples?

As for Victoria-Vancouver, Gordo and Falcon have obviously indicated they don't give 2 shits about who's running Vancouver and they do what they want. Not that I'm complaining much. Vancouver is the goose laying the golden egg for the province... I'm glad we don't have the "bail out the 12,000 pop. town in Northern BC" NDP in charge.

[WarrenC12]

Well in the Global News report this morning, he's already attacking Ladner about his "environmental stance." Ladner is not the greenest guy in the city, but he's not bad either, though I'm pretty sure Robertson is greener... still, he himself said he wants to keep it a clean campaign but I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe it's because of provincial politics influence.

Interesting. I want to see reporters ask GR about a carbon tax. His NDP friends are against it, but the Greens and obviously Libs support it.

GR needs to quit the NDP right now if he wants to have a real shot and get voters in Vancouver to take him seriously.

His comments about proposing a speculator tax are out in left field as well.

So far I still haven't decided who to vote for, but every time GR opens his mouth I lean further towards Ladner.

[phesto]

Robertson’s alignment with the NDP is probably what enabled him to get such a good turnout for the nomination in the first place.

Curious as to Robertson’s comments on the property tax issue; he is obviously looking at affordable housing to be one of the key issues in this election, but he’s kind of stumbled out of the gate with that one. It is a complex issue and long campaign, suggesting drastic measures based on questionable logic on the first day after the nomination seems pretty poor strategy on Robertson’s part.

[flight_from_kamakura]

I dunno if you're aware ... but COPE had already previously stated that it would not run a mayoral candidate if Robertson is the VV mayoral candidate and COPE's Ellen Woodsworth has made numerous outreaches to VV to no avail for a long period of time.

Silly strategy if ya ask me.

Firstly the latest Mustel poll has the provincial Liberals with a huge 18 point spread over the New Democrats (49% - 31%), with the Liberals up 3% from the 2005 election and the NDP down 11%.

Ya don't wanna disaffect centrist voters.

Secondly, Robertson was to be the centrist, all-inclusive, big-tent candidate for VV attracting disaffected NPA voters for a win.

Heck, VV candidate Al De Genova himself is provincially Liberal aligned.

With Robertson's comments today, he has blown off many Al De Genova's supporters and many of Robertson's own provincial Liberal supporters.

Them supporters, over time, will likely now drift over to centrist "federal Liberal" Ladner.

Really, what Robertson has mused today is about picking future fights with senior levels of governments as mayor. And not only ain't that a good political strategy but his opposite, Ladner, has seized on the matter.

Sheesh, Robertson now can't deny same during the pre-election period.

well, i think this is all pretty dramatic. just to address this part:

I dunno if you're aware ... but COPE had already previously stated that it would not run a mayoral candidate if Robertson is the VV mayoral candidate and COPE's Ellen Woodsworth has made numerous outreaches to VV to no avail for a long period of time.

the truth is that nothing's certain with cope, it's actually going to be subject to a lot of back and forth that's going to centre around how well vision compromises on the down-ballot races, working to protect cope incumbents and giving cope space to grow, etc. cadman probably won't run for mayor, but that doesn't mean that robertson's team won't have to negotiate to get what they need from cope. ellen woodsworth and david cadman are intelligent responsible people, but they're just two people, and things are more complicated than you might expect (it's up to the membership, for instance).

this said, i imagine that gregor will eventually win the support of both the cope and the green party.

as for the intelligence of his strategy so far: at this point, it's neutral at worst, and probably slightly positive.

first, putting aside the fact that he must still curry favor with the cope membership, recall that this is an opposition mla, and he's running (and probably winning) from the centre left. vancouver does indeed need far more relaxed rules for festivals and things; the police should be busting drug dealers, not jaywalkers; there should be neighborhood pubs... but it also needs serious revisions to the vancouver act, so that there's access to more that two revenue schemes; it needs the provincial government to support its transit plans (gateway is very unpopular in vancouver, by the way), and in a collaborative way rather than from on high; and it needs a federal government that will really come through for new infrastructure development (that's not related to the olympics).

and this needs to happen soon, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out, and there's a definite consensus that sam's not been too effective in these domains - not at articulating the problems, not at getting the results.

finally, suggesting a tax on speculators is weird, but ask 10 vancouverites and i bet 9 are warm to the idea.

[jlousa]

I'm a Vancouverite and I'm against a speculator tax as is everyone I associate with.
If you put a tax on speculators does that mean you will give rebate on everyone that is renting out a unit that's cashflow negative? Seems like you can't have it both ways.

[Stingray2004]

Glen Clark's anti-Ottawa tirades versus Campbell's excellent relationship with both the previous Liberal and current Tory gov'ts provides an excellent example and contrast of how those good relationships have paid off.

I'd like to believe that, but do you have some specific examples?

A very good article in the G&M a few months back confirming same but can't seem to google it up right now. Both Campbell and Manitoba NDP premier Doer have the best relationship with the PM. (Contrast same to McGuinty of Ontario)

As a matter of fact, the feds (Libs and Tories) have come to the table financially on every major BC initiative... Canada Line, Evergreen Line, Kicking Horse Canyon, Trade and Convention Centre, the Pacific Gateway strategy... etc. etc.

A BC government press release (take it with a grain of salt) but it's somewhat indicative.:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell announced three important federal-provincial agreements today and hailed them as evidence of the exceptionally “collaborative and effective” relationship between their two governments.

“There is no better example than the positive working relationship between Ottawa and British Columbia. Our governments have worked together very effectively on a number of important projects during the last two years.”

As far as I know, BC has never publicly criticized the feds and they have a very good working relationship.

But when one uses code words such as tough love etc. and comes out of the gate looking to pick fights if he doesn't get his own way... well... don't expect to see any financial co-operation from the two senior levels of government. I've seen this story play itself out before.

[b5baxter]

Interesting. I want to see reporters ask GR about a carbon tax.

One reporter tried:
http://www.straight.com/article-145645/gregor-mum-carbon-tax

His comments about proposing a speculator tax are out in left field as well.


CBC Radio this morning was interviewing a realtor that supported the tax. And Whistler essentially does the same thing except they give a grant to residents.

[ravman]

So this is BC's 150 Birthday and we got nothing unlike Quebec

the article is a bit old but....


also, I dont think Gregor can publicly say that he loves the federal and provincial govt. Frankly, its suicide if he were to say it provincially and if he hates the Federal Conservatives well he has to as the NDP and the Conservatives are on the opposite spectrum, it is understandable.

Also keep in mind how many Vancouver ridings ELECTED a Conservative MP ( David does not count)

but here is the article...


Quebec City nets $110m, B.C. zilch
But BC150 Years official says Ottawa is interested in granting us some cash

Kate Jaimet
Canwest News Service

Friday, January 18, 2008


OTTAWA -- Quebec City, $110 million; B.C., zero.

That's the score so far in the federal funding game for two parts of the country celebrating historic milestones this year.

The Quebec capital, marking the 400th anniversary of its founding by Samuel de Champlain, has already been granted $40 million from the Department of Canadian Heritage to pay for birthday festivities, with an additional $70 million in federal money for infrastructure upgrades, including restoration of historical sites.

Meanwhile, B.C., commemorating the 150th anniversary of its establishment as a British Crown colony, has yet to be promised a penny from the feds.

Charles Parkinson, executive director of the BC150 Secretariat, which is organizing the celebration, said he requested funding from Ottawa last winter, but the request stagnated.

"We went there, but we didn't really hear anything [back]," he said.

However, after persistently arguing his case, Parkinson now believes some money will be coming.

"Five or six weeks ago we received a call from Ottawa saying: 'We're really interested and we want to talk seriously,'" Parkinson said. "The signs coming from Ottawa have been very, very positive."

Officials from Heritage Minister Josee Verner's office declined to be interviewed, but sent an e-mail via the Heritage Department, saying the organization will consider funding the B.C. celebrations once it receives a detailed request.

Parkinson said he intended to send the detailed request this week.

Last month, BC150 called on communities, arts groups and event organizers to join the BC150 Years celebrations.

Tourism, Sport and the Arts Minister Stan Hagen said BC150 is hoping to support music and arts festivals, rodeos, parades or special B.C. Day celebrations.

Several festivals and events are already planned and being promoted on the group's website at www.bc150.gov.bc.ca.

Although Parkinson declined to say how much money B.C. is asking for, Hedy Fry, the Liberal MP for Vancouver Centre, said she hopes Ottawa will contribute in the neighbourhood of $20 million.

"I am being very generous when I say, I know that the federal government will be very supportive of this, given that there is a precedent in other provinces' centennials and in Quebec's celebrations," Fry told the Ottawa Citizen. "They should do it from a point of principle."

It's undisputed that Quebec City is extremely important historically, as a hub for the fur trade and a base for the French exploration and colonization of North America. But some argue the government's hype around Quebec has gone too far.

Promotional material from the Department of Canadian Heritage states: "The foundation of Quebec City also marks the foundation of the Canadian state" and that "French is the founding language of Canada."

But B.C. historian Jean Barman argues Canada, as we now know it, did not have a single founding moment. Rather, there were different founding events in different territories, which eventually became provinces and came together to form today's Canada.

The establishment of B.C. as a Crown Colony in 1858 was one of those founding moments, she argues, because the imposition of British rule stopped the territory from falling into the hands of the expansionist American republic.

"If it hadn't been for 1858, it's very possible that Canada as a country would not go coast to coast," said Barman.

[mr.x]

well, the 2010 Games count as something...

[flight_from_kamakura]

updates from a few recent sources.

- gregor has resigned as an mla and kim capri will run for re-election as a councilor rather than take a shot at his provincial seat.
- melissa de genova, in a bit of a reverse, will run for parks board under the npa banner
- for vision, wera topper and professional nice guy aaron jasper will run for parks board (bet he wins), and emery barnes' daughter might too.
- for the cope, sfu geography part-timer, ccpa thinker and general transit and planning guru john irwin will try for parks board (though by his cv, he's definitely council material). meanwhile, uber activist and asian media personality meena wong will run for council, along with old hands cadman, louis and woodsworth.
- the green party's only ever elected member, former parks boarder andrea reimer is seeking a vision council nomination, as is ubc psychiatry professor kerry jang.
- george chow seems likely to run for re-election
- negotiations are apparently occurring between the cope and vision vancouver on slots, but progress is coming slowly. a potential sticking point is that vision wants to run majorities on all three boards, including 7-8 council candidates, leaving only 2-3 uncontested spots on each board - a fair deal for not running a mayoral candidate, i'd say, but not a particularly attractive one to the more woolly-minded in that party.

so to date, the npa council slate looks like this:

- incumbent councilor susan anton
- incumbent councilor kim capri
- incumbent councilor elizabeth ball
- parks board chairperson korina houghton
- architect and wannabe developer michael geller

mayoral candidates aside, no other party has selected anyone yet.

[Stingray2004]

Although Gregor Robertson is a good guy, I'm starting to wonder about Vision Vancouver ever becoming a "big tent" party.

Apparently Al De Genova, VV mayoral challenger, and his daughter Mellissa De Genova (who was gonna run for a VV parks board position) have left VV and headed back to the NPA.

De Genova added that although she supported her father's campaign, her decision to run for the NPA was influenced by what she sees as Vision's move away from the party's "centrist direction," set by former mayor Larry Campbell. De Genova said Vision has become more involved with provincial politics than civic concerns.

"Vision is no longer the party I joined," De Genova told the Courier after the announcement. "And the NPA is not the party I left."


And today NDP MLA Adrian Dix seems to reinforce De Genova's previous statements:

Adrian Dix, the NDP MLA for Vancouver-Kingsway, doesn’t see anything wrong with civic party Vision Vancouver being referred to as the “farm team” of the provincial New Democrats.

Dix even agrees with the suggestion that a victory by Vision mayoral candidate Gregor Robertson, who recently vacated his post as the NDP MLA for Vancouver-Fairview, would be a significant shot in the arm for the NDP.

http://www.straight.com/article-154765/ndp-mla-doesnt-mind-visions-farm-team-label

In terms of political positioning and becoming a "big tent" party, the above statements appear to be strategic blunders for Vision Vancouver.

[flight_from_kamakura]

hah, vision the ndp farm team! mr. adrian dix only wishes!

anyway, onto a small update on the state of the race. vision and cope have selected their candidates!

for vision:

raymond louie
heather deal
tim stevenson
george chow
andrea reimer
geoff meggs
kerry jang
kashmir dhaliwal

-reimer's the former street kid turned civic leader, park's board commissioner, and gregor booster. she sounds like a kook, but she's crazy smart and she's definitely ready (as opposed to, say, elizabeth ball or susan anton).
-meggs was mayor larry's brain and consigliere
-jang is a ubc psychiatry prof and community activist
-dhaliwal is apparently vancouver's pre-eminent south asian community dude

on the cope side, a bit of drama, but the adults won in the end:

david cadman
ellen woodsworth

and that rounds out the vision/cope council slate.

[djh]

What, no Comrade Time Louis?! AAAAAWWWW!

LOL

[excel]

i be voting for ladner thats for sure.

[Stingray2004]

Looks like Ladner has some wind in his sails:

Allan De Genova backs Peter Ladner for Vancouver mayor

By Carlito Pablo

The mayoral candidacy of NPA councillor Peter Ladner has received a boost from someone who, under a different set of circumstances, would have run against him from the other side of Vancouver’s political fence.

Park board commissioner Allan De Genova, who sought but failed to obtain the mayoral endorsement of Vision Vancouver said in a phone interview on October 17 that he has decided to back Ladner’s bid.

http://www.straight.com/article-166892/allan-de-genova-backs-peter-ladner-vancouver-mayor

[jlousa]

I'm also voting for Ladner and the NPA, workwise I'd probably be better off supporting Vision but I just can't support them.

[phesto]

Does anyone have any poll data? It sounds as though Ladner is well behind right now. Robertson's campaign appears to be better organized and well-financed, and most of the younger people I talk to either aren't aware of the election, or are voting Robertson. Robertson's NDP ties are clearly helping his campaign.

A Robertson victory would be rather foreboding...(cough* MAY 12, 2009 *cough)

[flight_from_kamakura]

somewhat related to vancouver municipal politics, the ndp held onto gregor's seat, and took mayencourts in by-elections yesterday.

http://www.canada.com/vancouvercourier/news/story.html?id=93760369-40e5-4887-b922-dc519958f693

i'm really pleased that herbert took out griffiths. whilst griffiths was a good candidate, herbert is a lot better imo. he's right on every issue -a measured, intelligent progressive, very pro-development, very pro environment. he'll make the ndp's caucus better. and he's a sure winner next time around in the vancouver-west end seat. right on.

more surprising was that the ndp held gregor's riding. wow, that was really unexpected. but then, barring a miracle, she won't be around too long.

i'm guessing that griffiths sticks around for the vancouver yaletown riding (or whatever they're calling it) and that gordo goes back to the drawing board. he's got to be annoyed at these losses, not only for the sheer propaganda values, but also for the loss of two ministrables (he's got a damned weak bench if you ask me).

[Rusty Gull]

Which mayoral candidate will make a bigger push for Skytrain to UBC?? My hunch is that it will be, perhaps surprisingly, Robertson.

Also, has either candidate mentioned the Olympic Streetcar line as part of their transportation platform??

[Stingray2004]

Does anyone have any poll data? It sounds as though Ladner is well behind right now.

No publicly released opinion polls, but well connected political pundit Alex Tsakumis has the first tangible results that I have seen thus far:

[Gregor] started this campaign 22 points ahead of Peter. Gregor now trails Peter by three points: A stunning turnaround.

http://24voteforme.ca./node/106

That's before Gregor's recent position to close off a lane on the Burrard St. Bridge. I still remember the news media and the irate driver's during the first Burrard St. experiment with none too thrilled westsiders.

Too much traffic on that bridge, which would also result in bus snarls. Rather silly politically IMHO.

[Hong Kongese]

NPA backs barrier for Burrard Bridge

Cheryl Rossi, Vancouver Courier
Published: Wednesday, November 05, 2008


The NPA believes it has the solution to problems facing cyclists, pedestrians and cars on Burrard Street Bridge. The civic party wants to see a safety barrier installed between its sidewalks and roadway.

NPA mayoral hopeful Peter Ladner and incumbent council contender Suzanne Anton said Monday morning they believe the city should spend $33 million to replace the bridge's railings, improve its lighting and erect the barriers after 2010. Of the $33 million, $13 million has already been set aside and $20 million is included in the proposed capital plan that citizens will vote on in the Nov. 15 civic election.

Cyclists are not impressed.

The NPA proposal was a real disappointment," said Richard Campbell, spokesperson for Friends of Burrard Bridge. "Adding barriers would make the sidewalks narrower, increasing the chance that cyclists and pedestrians might actually hit each other, which is essentially the problem right now. I guess the only advantage is cyclists wouldn't go on the road."

Vision Vancouver mayoral hopeful Gregor Robertson suggests one of the bridge's six lanes could be reallocated to cyclists for a six-month trial period. The remaining five lanes would have an alternating centre lane to maintain three lanes in one direction for rush hour traffic.

Both Campbell and the NPA believe Vision's option doesn't make the best sense, although Campbell prefers this proposal to the NPA's. Campbell and the NPA wonder which lane would be switched, and when, given traffic flows heavily in both directions in the mornings and afternoons.

The NPA says removing one vehicle lane would clog adjacent neighbourhoods with traffic, delay buses and be difficult and costly to operate.

The related cost of installing signals for a six-month trial is one of the reasons why Campbell believes the city should try reallocating two lanes to cyclists for one year, the plan that was approved by the COPE-dominated council and Ladner in July 2005. Ladner switched his position shortly before the last election.

Campbell said a one-year trial makes more sense than a six-month trial.

"Because people will adjust. The Cambie Street Bridge was down to one lane for several months and people seemed to adapt just fine," he said. "The long-term solution may be a one-lane reallocation, but then you can actually spend the money, do the engineering work and create a good solution for both bikes and pedestrians, and motor vehicles."

Campbell says Paris and New York City are reallocating motor vehicle lanes to improve commutes for cyclists and pedestrians. He said Vancouver's politicians need to show more leadership. "If we're going to have to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, people have to drive less anyway, so why aren't we making it really good for people to cycle?" he said.

An option to widen the sidewalks outward on the historic bridge has been ditched since projected costs swelled to $63 million.




© Vancouver Courier 2008

[mr.x]

I would think that Gregor would be behind in the polls with the whole transit fare leak.

[fever]

The Cambie Street Bridge was down to one lane for several months and people seemed to adapt just fine. The long-term solution may be a one-lane reallocation, but then you can actually spend the money, do the engineering work and create a good solution for both bikes and pedestrians, and motor vehicles.

And the Burrard bridge is far closer to the Granville bridge, and 4th Avenue has an on-ramp to and an off-ramp from the Granville bridge, and the proposal is for only one lane of six instead of the three of six that were removed from the Cambie bridgehead, and the problems on the Cambie bridge were minor and short-lived.

[worldwide]

the cambie bridge is down to one lane each way.

in my opinion it would be optimal to give up a lane or two on burrard as soon as cambie comes back online, thereby actually increasing the number of traffic lanes into downtown.

also i think they should give half a lane on each side for cyclists and then light rail down the center, with two lanes each way for traffic

[ravman]

Roberston says sorry and pays fine
Vancouver mayoral hopeful decides not to fight $173 fare evasion ticket

The Province

Wednesday, November 05, 2008

Mayoral hopeful Gregor Robertson said Wednesday he's paid the $173 SkyTrain fine he got for fare evasion, and he's changed his mind about disputing it in court.

"I've paid the full amount of the fine, and as a result will not be appearing in a hearing," said Robertson, who was ticketed for travelling two zones on a one-zone ticket.

"As a mayoral candidate, and I hope as mayor, I have better ways to raise these issues. Under these circumstances, it was a mistake to challenge the fine in this way, and I apologize for this mistake and take full responsibility for it."

Robertson's reversal came as TransLink CEO Thomas Prendergast said a final decision hasn't been made on smart cards, electronic fare cards that automatically subtract the correct fare, although Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon promised last year that smart cards and turnstiles would be in place before 2010.

Turnstiles, which usually accompany smart cards, would take three to four years to put in, Prendergast said.

"We have to evaluate both [smart cards and faregates] together," he said after a speech to the Vancouver Board of Trade about TransLink's plans.

"Once you get to the issue of smart cards, you do have to address the issue of whether you have faregates.

"The two will have to go hand in hand."

Faregates throughout the system could cost up to $100 million to install.

The Millennium and Canada Lines were designed to accommodate faregates, but the Expo Line would require extensive modifications.

"I think the fastest you can implement a smart card is in the two- to three-year time frame," said Prendergast.

"Whether or not you can actually do faregates in the same time period remains to be seen.

"But nothing says you have to have all the stations equipped with faregates at the same time - if we decide to go with faregates. You're talking probably, I'd say, a three- to four-year time frame for full implementation."

Prendergast said he wants a decision from the professional board that runs TransLink "sooner rather than later."

He expects a decision within the "next six to nine months."

[officedweller]

I think Burrard can handle losing one lane (as mentioned, Cambie came down to one lane each way and traffic redistributed). I think losing 2 lanes is overkill - especially when the bike lanes feed into narrow width bike lanes on city streets. If there's a safety issue with speeding cars on the bridge, then separate the bike half lane with bollards (even the orange bollards that were instantly installed for the Canada Line on Cambie or previously under BC Place on Expo Boulevard to close the curb lane for a sidewalk before the concrete sidewalk was poured).

The idea of a railing on the edge of the sidewalk isn't feasible - it would have to be tall enough so cyclists don't "flip" over the railing in a collision - which also means that it would encroach at the level of a bike's handlebar width. That'll really narrow the space on the sidewalk.

I agree that Roberston has committed political suiicide by not paying the TransLink fine - it shows poor judgement and that's not what you want running the City.

BTW - remember that the lane redistribution isn't Robertson's idea - it's Vision Vancouver's platform.

On the flip side, in the paper today, Raymond Louie couldn't see the spinoff benefits that the City gets by renovating (and retaining) BC Place - he opposed waiving the development fees of 4.3 million that the rezoning around BC Place would have otherwise required.

[phesto]

I have no idea how Robertson thought he could spin the fare evasion issue given that we know Translink has announced the turnstiles plans. As much as I don't like Falcon, he schooled Robertson (below). And I agree it is really poor judgement on his part. Oh well, good news for Ladner.

------------------------------------------

Robertson drops fare fight, pays up

Transportation minister has some choice words for mayoral candidate

Chad Skelton and Tim Lai, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, November 06, 2008

Would-be Vancouver mayor Gregor Robertson said Wednesday he has paid the SkyTrain fare-violation fine that has been embarrassing him this week. By paying the fine, he avoids a traffic court hearing in December.

He may also be able to escape more of the enthusiastic tongue-lashings Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon has been sending his way.

Robertson was hit with the $173 fine after being caught in June 2007 riding through two SkyTrain zones on a one-zone fare.

Since the then-unpaid fine came to light a few days ago, Robertson had been saying he intended to fight the fine and argue that penalties for SkyTrain fare violations were too high.

"I admit that [deciding to fight the fine] may not have been the best course of action," he said Wednesday.

Robertson did not have a figure for a more appropriate fine, but wanted to raise the issue by comparing the fine amount to traffic and parking tickets. "It raised a lot of attention and it's an important issue, but we need to focus our attention on more critical issues," he said.

"In future, I hope to raise it as a mayor on the Mayors' Council of TransLink. There's room for improvement in the transit fine system and zone system." Robertson insisted he never intended to avoid paying the fine or having it reduced, but that he wanted to raise the issue at the hearing.

He said the media attention the issue has drawn was an "unfortunate distraction from the real issues."

Falcon questioned whether such fines were ever a real issue with the former MLA.

"As minister of transportation, I spent the last four years with Gregor Robertson in Victoria and not once did he ever raise the issue about TransLink fine levels being excessive," Falcon said Wednesday in an interview. "Not privately, not publicly. Not ever."

Robertson admitted he had never specifically brought up excessive fines. He said earlier this week he wanted to draw attention to the high fines, which he said are particularly harsh for low-income people.

But Falcon said: "He didn't seem to think it was a problem until he got caught."

Falcon added he thinks TransLink's fine levels are fair.

"The reason why TransLink has high fines is to discourage the freeloaders and the cheaters that end up costing the honest people who pay their fares on a regular basis," he said. "If the fine's too low, nobody's going to pay attention, nobody's going to care."

A report on fare evasion prepared by PriceWaterhouseCoopers last year estimated TransLink loses about $6.4 million a year to fare evasion -- about 2.5 per cent of all fare revenue -- and that only about one per cent of fare evaders are caught.

Overall, the report estimated 5.4 per cent of people riding SkyTrain don't pay their fares, compared to a fare-evasion rate of just 1.6 per cent on buses. In 2005, TransLink increased its fine for fare evasion from $46 to $173. In comparison, the fine is $115 on Toronto's transit system and $150 in Montreal.

Comparing those two systems to Vancouver is difficult, however, since both Toronto and Montreal have turnstiles at subway stations. As a result, fare evasion is far less of a problem in those cities.

Riders who innocently forget to purchase or upgrade their fares in those cities are unlikely to be ticketed, since they'd have to deliberately jump over the turnstiles to commit the offence.

A year ago, Falcon announced plans to install turnstiles on SkyTrain and the new Canada Line, at an estimated cost of $80 million to $100 million.

Falcon said the government is also looking at ways to do a better job of collecting fines from fare evaders. At the moment, only about 10 per cent of fare-evasion tickets are ever paid.

cskelton@vancouversun.com
tlai@vancouversun.com

[WarrenC12]

Comedy of errors, now Ladner and the NPA are getting blasted for loaning the Olympic village developer $100m. Ouch. :koko:

[jlousa]

I'm sure Translink will be jumping at the chance to partner with the city and build out the streetcar project if Robertson gets elected. :rolleyes:

[djh]

I'm sure Translink will be jumping at the chance to partner with the city and build out the streetcar project if Robertson gets elected. :rolleyes:

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic there - I'm never sure if you're being funny or serious.

Anyway, if you're implying that Translink are so petty as to delay a major city initiative (that, by the way, would affect hundreds of thousands of people) just because they disagree with the behaviour of one person before they were in power, then they all need to be fired. They would clearly have no idea of running a business effectively. And I really doubt, hope and pray that this is not how Translink operates.

[jlousa]

Actually I'm sure there's some truth in my statement. Truth be told if Ladner and the NPA get elected I still don't think Translink wants much to do with the streetcar line at this time. They do not have the funds for it, and I think any new (not yet announced) project will probably be south of the fraser.

The grievances between Vision and Translink have been there for a while but they are really hitting the limelight now. Robertson blasting the ticket fine amount as unfair isn't the issue but it doesn't help. The bigger issues are Robertson backing the bus unions call for the immediate purchase of 500 more buses when Translink doesn't have the capital funds nor the operating budget for those buses. There was also Visions statement today that they don't consider transit a public amenity bringing to light they fully expect Translink's real estate branch to contribute CACs to the city when they come for rezoning. Translink is not receiving much love from Vision and I would not be surprised if Translink directs their very limited resources at a more favourable municipality.

[Hong Kongese]

City officials stay silent on $100M loan for 2010 athletes' village


Robertson calls on mayoral rival Ladner to come clean about loan

Jeff Lee, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, November 06, 2008

VANCOUVER - City of Vancouver officials played down suggestions Thursday that its $1-billion Olympic athletes' village being built in the southeast False Creek area may be at risk. But they would not reveal what went on in a closed council meeting about the project in October.

They refused to confirm reports that the city has agreed to loan Millennium Development Corp. or its financial backer, Fortress Investment Group, up to $100 million in addition to the $190 million the city had already offered as a loan guarantee to make sure the 1,100-unit project is built in time for the 2010 Winter Games.

The new deal, apparently approved in a tightly scripted in camera meeting Oct. 14, was confirmed by Sun columnist Miro Cernetig after it was first reported by a national newspaper, which also claimed the city's longtime finance director, Estelle Lo, had resigned over concerns about the city's financial exposure on the project.

Mayor Sam Sullivan, Coun. Peter Ladner and other elected politicians who attended the in-camera meeting all refused to discuss it, citing confidentiality rules. However, both the mayor and Ladner, who is running under the Non-Partisan Association banner to replace Sullivan, said Lo continued to work for the city and that she had never expressed to them or to council as a whole, any concern over financing for the village project.

"She has not quit and continues to work for the city," Sullivan said. He said he would have been told by city manager Judy Rogers if Lo had resigned, and instead had been assured that "she is still on the city's payroll."

However, he said Lo's position with the city was a "human resources matter" that he would not discuss, leading to the possibility that Lo's employment is still in question.

Ladner said he spoke to Lo on Wednesday night "about a tax matter" and that she did not indicate to him she had left her position. Lo, who was in Hong Kong on scheduled holidays and was expected back at work Nov. 17, could not be reached for comment.

Rogers did not return calls. Deputy city manager Jody Andrews, who is also the project manager for the village project, also would not discuss whether Lo had resigned, saying that was "a personnel matter."

Andrews issued a statement saying the city's financial exposure on the project had not changed and that it was confident construction will be completed in time for the Olympic Games.

Dan Doyle, executive vice-president of construction for the Vancouver Organizing Committee, which will take control of the village next November, deferred to the city for comment. He said Vanoc was confident the village will be completed on time.

Andrews said the city had been in negotiation with Millennium and Fortress for some time because the project is about seven per cent, or about $70 million, over budget, which he said was small in comparison to the overall price.

Concerns about the financial stability of the project led to calls by Vision Vancouver mayoral candidate Gregor Robertson for full public disclosure. Robertson said Ladner, chairman of the city's finance committee, should step aside from that position.

Just who knew what and who was talking has become a thorny political issue. Robertson said none of the incumbent Vision councillors, including Coun. Raymond Louie, had revealed to him details of the in-camera meeting.

Louie, who is vice-chairman of the city's finance committee, would not tell reporters what he knew about the new deal. But he took the opportunity to slam the Non-Partisan Association-led council, saying council should hold a public meeting to discuss the project's finances.

Last month Michael Flanigan, the city's director of real estate services, told The Vancouver Sun the project was at that time six per cent or $60 million over budget and that the city was not concerned about its viability.

Flanigan said the city's $190-million financial guarantee to Fortress was not in danger of being exercised and that work on the village was proceeding.

Against a backdrop of the noisy construction site, Andrews said the city was not prepared to discuss details of the negotiations.

"I think that the taxpayer out there will understand that when we conduct business discussions on their behalf, that we don't reveal those on a day-to-day basis because we're in negotiations," Andrews said.

The city's commitment on the project is being financed through its property endowment fund, which holds land, leases and cash. The PEF, worth $2.7 billion at the end of 2007, according to city financial statements, is running a $26.4-million deficit so far this year.

Ken Bayne, general manager of business and planning services, said the city built up the PEF's cash reserves over recent years in part because it knew that it would have to finance servicing costs for the Olympic village site.

The resulting deficit is being financed from the city's capital finance fund, which Bayne described as an internal financing vehicle the city uses to lend money to other departments. At the end of 2007, the fund held $194.3 million.

Andrews said the city last week gave engineering giant SNC Lavalin a no-bid consulting contract worth about $30,000 to provide "project oversight."

Andrews would not discuss whether financial rating services were concerned.

However, Standard & Poor's said the reported loan to Millennium will likely not hurt the city's credit rating, even if it does add to Vancouver's overall debt.

"[The loan] is something we'd obviously be concerned about," said Steven Ogilvie, director of public-finance ratings for Standard & Poor's office in Toronto. "But [does it raise] red flags? No."

Ogilvie added that Standard & Poor's is in the middle of completing its 2008 assessment of Vancouver's rating.

Standard & Poor's currently rates Vancouver AA+, which is the firm's second-highest rating. Ratings establish a municipality's credit risk and influence the interest rates on the bonds they issue.

The city, in its 2007 annual report, showed $514 million in long-term debt, which Ogilvie characterized as modest for a city the size of Vancouver. The city's strong economy also factored into its high rating, he said.

"The city sits very comfortably within its rating category," Ogilvie added, which means its AA status could stand "against a fair amount of new debt" being added to its books.

jefflee@vancouversun.com

with files from Catherine Rolfsen and Derrick Penner




© Vancouver Sun 2008

[MistyMountainHop]

It's our own mini-bailout!

[mr.x]

Police to investigate disappearance of confidential Olympic Village documents

Last Updated: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 | 6:09 PM ET
CBC News | British Columbia

Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan has asked Vancouver police Chief Jim Chu to investigate how a confidential document disappeared from a closed-door council meeting.

Sullivan called for the investigation into what he called a case of internal theft after details of a $100-million loan to bail out the developer of the Olympic athletes village were leaked to the media following an in-camera session of city council on Oct. 14.

Earlier this week it was revealed a single copy of a confidential city report on the development mysteriously disappeared following the closed meeting attended only by the mayor, city council and senior staff members.

Those attending the meeting were reportedly sworn to secrecy, and all copies of the report on the negotiations prepared by the staff were numbered to prevent leaks.

The missing copy was the one assigned to councillor and mayoral candidate Peter Ladner, who said he left his copy of the report on a pile with others after the meeting, and left the room empty-handed.

Staff said they noticed the numbered report was missing shortly after the meeting. It later turned up on the desk of Coun. B.C. Lee, who said he found it after noticing the papers on his desk had been disturbed after he left his office unlocked.

Newspaper published details

Details about the negotiations and the loan were later published in a Globe and Mail newspaper column by Gary Mason on Nov. 6.

With the civic election less than a week away, rumours and accusations began swirling almost immediately about who might be the source of the information published in the report.

On Monday news of the misplaced or stolen document became public. Then on Wednesday, Mason wrote that Ladner was unjustifiably suggesting the missing documents were leaked to the Globe and Mail and were the source of his report.

"Mr. Ladner has no evidence, near as I can tell, that the information in the initial Globe story about the loan came from his copy of the minutes," wrote Mason in his column.

Police confirm investigation

Meanwhile, Vancouver police confirmed Chief Jim Chu has been asked by Sullivan to investigate the disappearance of the document.

The police investigation will no doubt increase the controversy around the bailout of the Olympic Village development, which has become the main issue in the upcoming Nov. 15 civic election.

The billion-dollar residential development on the shores of Vancouver's False Creek will serve as the Olympic Village during the 2010 Winter Games before being sold off as condominium units.

But the project by the Millennium Development, which is owned by troubled New York-based hedge fund Fortress Group, has landed in a storm of cost overruns, credit problems related to the global financial crisis, and political intrigue.

The hedge fund recently struggled to secure financing to keep one of its other assets afloat, Intrawest, the operators of Whistler-Blackcomb and other North American ski and holiday resorts.

[mr.x]

Council agrees to lie detector test on loan leak
Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan asks police to investigate Olympic Village case

Chad Skelton, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, November 12, 2008

VANCOUVER - All 10 of Vancouver's incumbent city councillors, plus the mayor, insist they aren't the source of a media leak about the $100-million Olympic Village loan agreement - and all say they are willing to take a lie-detector test to prove it.

Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan also announced Wednesday that he has asked the Vancouver police to investigate the matter.

Sullivan and all five sitting Non-Partisan Association candidates, including mayoral candidate Peter Ladner, told The Vancouver Sun on Wednesday they would be willing to undergo a polygraph test to prove they weren't the source of the leak.

The Sun was only able to reach one incumbent Vision councillor. But Vision spokesman Ian Baillie said he had spoken to all four and "yes, they would all take lie-detector tests."

Coalition of Progressive Electors incumbent David Cadman also said he would take the test.

On Oct. 14, all council members attended an in camera meeting in the mayor's office to discuss the financing of the Olympic Village development on the southeast shore of False Creek.

Three weeks later, it leaked out that council decided to give $100 million in additional loan guarantees to Olympic Village developer Millennium and/or its financial backer, Fortress Investment Corp. The city has already offered $190 million as a loan guarantee to make sure the 1,100-unit project is built in time for the 2010 Winter Games; to date, the $1.1- billion project is about $70 million over budget.

Ladner has disclosed that the numbered report he was given at the secret meeting - which he says he left in the mayor's office before leaving - went missing immediately after, only to re-appear two days later on NPA Coun. B.C. Lee's desk.

Lee said he discovered Ladner's report in his office on Oct. 16, after stepping away briefly between 7 and 7:30 p.m.

Since the story broke, controversy over the loan guarantees - and who leaked the information - has dominated the municipal election campaign.

On Sunday, Ladner said it was "highly coincidental" the document was likely leaked on the same day news of Gregor Robertson's SkyTrain ticket for fare evasion appeared on the front page of The Sun. Vision's Robertson is Ladner's rival in the mayoral race

Vision, meanwhile, has accused Ladner of carelessness, since he left his report on a table in the mayor's office instead of handing it back to city staff.

Others have suggested Sullivan may have leaked the document as payback for his loss of the NPA mayoral nomination - something Sullivan has denied.

Several councillors contacted by The Sun Wednesday said the level of secrecy and security surrounding the Oct. 14 meeting was unusual, if not unprecedented.

Vision Coun. Tim Stevenson said, in most cases, councillors receive reports for in camera meetings ahead of time and are responsible themselves for destroying them afterwards.

"The staff were obviously very, very concerned for them to hand out numbered copies," he said.

NPA Coun. Suzanne Anton agreed the meeting was unusual.

"I thought the cloak-and-dagger stuff was ridiculous," she said. "It turns out they were right and I was wrong."

Sullivan announced Wednesday that he had asked Police Chief Jim Chu to launch an investigation into "internal theft of documents" - a request he said Chu accepted.

Legal and political experts contacted by The Sun said it's unclear what penalty a councillor, or staff member, could face for leaking the information.

Simon Fraser University political scientist Patrick Smith said the Vancouver Charter is "pretty vague" when it comes to censuring a mayor and councillors.

However, Smith said Section 145.91 of the Charter states that council members must not use information not available to the public for their own benefit.

A councillor who contravenes that section, the Charter states, can be disqualified from holding office, unless it was done "inadvertently or because of an error in judgment made in good faith."

However, Smith said proving the offence would be difficult.

"The only person whose name is on the document leaked is Peter Ladner's. He has indicated that it wasn't his leak," said Smith. "And you can't just pick one of the other councillors and say, 'Well, it must be you then.' There is no legal test there that is going to work at all."

Criminal lawyer Ravi Hira said someone who wilfully leaked confidential material could be guilty of breach of trust or theft.

On Tuesday, former Vancouver mayors Larry Campbell of Vision and Philip Owen of the NPA held a press conference saying it was not unusual for council to discuss real-estate transactions behind closed doors.

However, the Pivot Legal Society disputes that interpretation.

On Wednesday, the society filed a complaint with the B.C. ombudsman alleging the City of Vancouver's bylaws do not allow council to withhold information about the loan guarantee from the public.

[ravman]

City officials stay silent on $100M loan for 2010 athletes' village


Robertson calls on mayoral rival Ladner to come clean about loan


Ogilvie added that Standard & Poor's is in the middle of completing its 2008 assessment of Vancouver's rating.

Standard & Poor's currently rates Vancouver AA+, which is the firm's second-highest rating. Ratings establish a municipality's credit risk and influence the interest rates on the bonds they issue.

The city, in its 2007 annual report, showed $514 million in long-term debt, which Ogilvie characterized as modest for a city the size of Vancouver. The city's strong economy also factored into its high rating, he said.

"The city sits very comfortably within its rating category," Ogilvie added, which means its AA status could stand "against a fair amount of new debt" being added to its books.

jefflee@vancouversun.com



© Vancouver Sun 2008

HOLD ON THERE!!!!! DID IT JUST SAY AA STATUS AND SECOND HIGHEST???

A QUOTE FROM NPA WEBSITE AND ADS
Made Vancouver the only city in Canada to achieve a Triple-A credit rating from all three rating agencies- http://www.npavancouver.ca/tabid/59/language/en-US/Default.aspx


:koko: is the only way to describe the NPA ok fine they are bloody liars... we need to get these crooks and criminals out and in to the big trench next to city hall!

[deasine]

I find it amazing how even Former Mayor Larry Campbell (VV) held the press conference saying how Gregor Robertson blew everything out of proportion.

[ravman]

Larry Campbell is a Liberal... and even campaigned for Team BC.... there is no denying that

[mr.x]

I find it amazing how even Former Mayor Larry Campbell (VV) held the press conference saying how Gregor Robertson blew everything out of proportion.

I have much respect for Larry Campbell, he hated the whole partisan thing going on at city hall and he really did try to get a lot of things done. In fact, the whole partisan thing was exactly why he decided not to run again.

If he were running again, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.


And it's true that Robertson blew it out of proportion, there are a lot of safeguards in place so that the city isn't giving a blank cheque. He has given the media an excuse to sensationalize this whole thing and sell newspapers.

[Stingray2004]

Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan asks police to investigate Olympic Village case

Chad Skelton, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, November 12, 2008

Ladner has disclosed that the numbered report he was given at the secret meeting - which he says he left in the mayor's office before leaving - went missing immediately after, only to re-appear two days later on NPA Coun. B.C. Lee's desk.

Lee said he discovered Ladner's report in his office on Oct. 16, after stepping away briefly between 7 and 7:30 p.m.

On Sunday, Ladner said it was "highly coincidental" the document was likely leaked on the same day news of Gregor Robertson's SkyTrain ticket for fare evasion appeared on the front page of The Sun. Vision's Robertson is Ladner's rival in the mayoral race

Global News tonight reported that, according to computerized card swipes at city hall (they had the exact time lines), the only councillor present at city hall during the time of Lee's absence (when the report was found on his desk) was Vision Vancouver's Raymond Louie.

[ravman]

HOLD ON.....

KIM CAPRI was there before Lee entered...

and also... everyone is persumed innocent until proven guilty.... the VPD have the camera footage and what not.... and that should tell...

NO ONE MENTIONS THE LIES BY THE NPA ABOUT THE CREDIT RATING AS BEFORE

HOLD ON THERE!!!!! DID IT JUST SAY AA STATUS AND SECOND HIGHEST???

A QUOTE FROM NPA WEBSITE AND ADS
Made Vancouver the only city in Canada to achieve a Triple-A credit rating from all three rating agencies- http://www.npavancouver.ca/tabid/59/language/en-US/Default.aspx


:koko: is the only way to describe the NPA ok fine they are bloody liars... we need to get these crooks and criminals out and in to the big trench next to city hall!

[mezzanine]

Larry Campbell is a Liberal... and even campaigned for Team BC.... there is no denying that

You also forgot that Campbell owns 2 units at Millenium Water...

That being said, Robertson fails to detail what he would do differently if he were mayor. He has a good chance of becoming mayor and vision may be able to control council, but I really doubt that they would take a radically different approach. While they are at it, they can also explain why vision councillors voting for passing the bailout without raising objections like robertson did...

More worrisomely, robertson increasingly looks like a grandstanding (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3bbbd0e6-a32d-415e-b95b-beff1e0f897c) dilettante (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081112.BCMASON12/TPStory/TPComment/BritishColumbia/) rather than a savvy politician. If he does become mayor, i really hope there will not be a lot of theatrics and resulting blow-back...

[deasine]

Larry Campbell is a Liberal... and even campaigned for Team BC.... there is no denying that

That's not related at all. After the election, Larry Campbell, along with Tim Stevenson, Raymond Louie, and Jim Green formed a complete different political party from COPE, known as Vision.

Global News tonight reported that, according to computerized card swipes at city hall (they had the exact time lines), the only councillor present at city hall during the time of Lee's absence (when the report was found on his desk) was Vision Vancouver's Raymond Louie.

Why am I not surprised?

Gregor seems to be bringing provincial style of politics where they are blaming the different parties back and forth into municipal politics, which shouldn't be done AT ALL.

[ravman]

That's not related at all. After the election, Larry Campbell, along with Tim Stevenson, Raymond Louie, and Jim Green formed a complete different political party from COPE, known as Vision.


thank you for your introductory lesson on civic history and believe me i know as a member of vision what its history is...

now when you are trying to tell me that they are not related... just look at those liberals.... they are a bunch of lowlifes--- and if you dont believe me then actually get to KNOW the core in the party and you will see for yourself... trust me i know.... now what we have is a bunch of lowlifes trying to influence a decent civic party.... and thats the problem.... Larry was an awesome man until he became a senator... he should go sit in ottawa and shuffle paper like senator normally do and stop messing around with stuff in BC... as for Owen.... they bring him back in a desperate attempt to woo voters who cant remember all the bad stuff he has done... almost like a jr gordo back when he was a mayor.... though Owen wasnt as bad...

[flight_from_kamakura]

uh, somehow i don't see raymond louie doing something like that, he's way too cautious, and he'd know all the security and whatever enough to know how easily he could be implicated. my guess is that it was a city staff member, or david cadman.

anyway, sam said something funny yesterday that i found fairly outrageous, a sort of "this is why you should definitely vote vision" moment... he said that things like this made staff reluctant to share sensitive information with councilors. me, i have a feeling that ladner will be elected, which isn't how i'd like to see it go down, but regardless, i would hope that he doesn't follow sam's example of running the city from judy rogers' office, the idea that councilors have to be managed by staff, that the political class is an annoyance to the bureaucracy and especially that staff might not trust the political leadership of the city enough to give them all the information - these are pretty much unacceptable in this day and age, and one would hope that the concomitant concentration of power in the mayor's office (a hallmark of sullivan-era vancouver city hall) would be opened up to a more discussion-intensive consensus-based model, at least within the governing caucus (which, i unhappily expect will once again be the npa).

[phesto]

HOLD ON THERE!!!!! DID IT JUST SAY AA STATUS AND SECOND HIGHEST???

A QUOTE FROM NPA WEBSITE AND ADS
Made Vancouver the only city in Canada to achieve a Triple-A credit rating from all three rating agencies- http://www.npavancouver.ca/tabid/59/language/en-US/Default.aspx


:koko: is the only way to describe the NPA ok fine they are bloody liars... we need to get these crooks and criminals out and in to the big trench next to city hall!

I'll bite. The website states that while in Government, the NPA: Made Vancouver the only city in Canada to achieve a Triple-A credit rating from all three rating agencies.

This is true, plain and simple. The fact that S&P does not currently have the COV at a AAA rating should not really be a source of contention for you - it was downgraded before 2007, nor does it contradict the aforementioned statement on the NPA website - but I'm guessing you already knew that. Grasping at straws much?

[vanlaw]

I'll bite. The website states that while in Government, the NPA: Made Vancouver the only city in Canada to achieve a Triple-A credit rating from all three rating agencies.

This is true, plain and simple. The fact that S&P does not currently have the COV at a AAA rating should not really be a source of contention for you - it was downgraded before 2007, nor does it contradict the aforementioned statement on the NPA website - but I'm guessing you already knew that. Grasping at straws much?

Although unrelated, I find it amazing that through all of this credit crisis bs, that there has been almost no scrutiny on the ratings agencies that gave the structured products, which caused this mess, "AAA" ratings. I dont think ratings are as solid as some people like to think.

[jlousa]

flight_from_kamakura I wish I shared your optisim that Ladner will win, but I can't see it happening. He has my vote as well as most of the people I work with but I still think we'll see Robertson win this time around.
This forum will probably be quite a bit quieter for the next 3 yrs. ;)

[officedweller]

On the news last night, at the debate, Ladner said that City Council authorized up to $100 million, that only $30 million had been actually loaned to date and that negotiations between Millennium and City staff are still ongoing.

Essentially, the leak has screwed the City’s negotiating position, because Millennium now knows that $100 million is available and they’ll seek the maximum available.

[Overground]

HOLD ON THERE!!!!! DID IT JUST SAY AA STATUS AND SECOND HIGHEST???

A QUOTE FROM NPA WEBSITE AND ADS
Made Vancouver the only city in Canada to achieve a Triple-A credit rating from all three rating agencies- http://www.npavancouver.ca/tabid/59/language/en-US/Default.aspx


:koko: is the only way to describe the NPA ok fine they are bloody liars... we need to get these crooks and criminals out and in to the big trench next to city hall!

The NPA website has a list of "Achievements" of the Vancouver Non-Partisan Association. As in past tense. This would be similar to the Toronto Blue Jays baseball club posting World Series wins twice on an achievement list. True and not current reigning winners, but certainly valid achievements.

[Stingray2004]

On the news last night, at the debate, Ladner said that City Council authorized up to $100 million, that only $30 million had been actually loaned to date and that negotiations between Millennium and City staff are still ongoing.

Essentially, the leak has screwed the City’s negotiating position, because Millennium now knows that $100 million is available and they’ll seek the maximum available.

Yeah, excellent point. I saw that as well. Looks like a potential minefield/mess for the City of Vancouver just because some people want to play politics. Sad really.

In terms of where we are potentially heading, Vancouver city writer Frances Bula (who tended to favour Robertson/Vision Vancouver) has this to say about these shenanigans and a potential dysfunctional city hall:

...looks like it will sweep Gregor Robertson and Vision Vancouver into power. And then, my friends, the uproar will really begin.

Because this will be an ugly victory, one that makes the whole James Green/Jim Green fiasco of the last election pale in comparison. And there is going to be plenty of fallout in all directions once the election dust has settled.

If and when the new Vision team is elected, it's hard to see any way that those council members will be able to work with many of the senior staff now at city hall.

Just wait for the convulsions at city hall after the election. What's going on now will seem trivial. Here's hoping that Vision can steer its way through that upheaval, so that we don't all pay the price.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081109/BC_domino_effect_bula_081109/20081109?hub=BritishColumbiablog

[mezzanine]

^ the bright side? house prices in vancouver will be coming down significantly in the next 3 years....;)

Other chatter on the net and blogosphere mention that there is a suspect that the police are focusing on in the report theft - i think a councillor. I have no link, but i'm sure that we will hear more...

[flight_from_kamakura]

from alan garr's latest:

But the NPA decision drove the value of the land up to a level never before seen in this city. The NPA picked the bid with the biggest dollar value attached to it, which was not, I have been told, the bid with necessarily the soundest financial arrangements.
When opposition councillors asked to see details of the other bids before making a decision, staff refused them. And staff, in turn, was supported by Ladner and the NPA.
...
the point is that whoever's in power, this kind of thing has to stop. it's unacceptable that the elected leadership of the city would be unable to receive even basic information, or that the bureaucracy would curtail or even sabotage (cope anyone?) key political plans and initiatives in favor of institutional plans.

[ravman]

The purloined papers: Louie confronts Global; aide refutes Lee's story
By Monte Paulsen November 13, 2008 05:00 pm

Coun. Raymond Louie has threatened legal action in response to a Global news report that suggested the Vision Vancouver councillor was a suspect in the ongoing investigation into who leaked news of the $100-million Olympic Village bailout.

“The story that aired at 6 p.m. last night on Global TV casts aspersions on me that are completely untrue,” Louie told a Thursday afternoon news conference.

“I am considering legal action over the insinuation that I had any involvement with regards to Coun. Ladner’s in-camera document,” Louie added.

Anonymous caller tipped Global

Louie was reacting to a Nov. 12 News Hour report at the top of which anchor Chris Gailus said, “A city hall internal investigation may have singled out one councilor at as suspect.”

Ron Bencze reported on the Vancouver Police Department investigation, and then provided the following timeline of city hall events on the evening of Oct. 16:

“At 5:14 p.m., councilor Lee swipes in. About half an hour later he leaves for dinner.”

“At 5:56 p.m. Councilor Raymond Louie swipes in. For over an hour, he’s all alone, until Councilor Kim Capri swipes in at 7:06 p.m.”

“B.C. Lee returns five minutes later, discovers the documents and informs the deputy mayor.”

Bencze told The Tyee that Global received the key card data from an anonymous caller on Tuesday night.

“It wasn’t until afterwards, on Wednesday, that we got independent verification of that timeline,” he said.

Bencze said he personally inspected a printout of the key card data. When asked who showed him the printout, he said, “A high ranking employee at city hall. I won’t get too specific.”

Lee’s assistant refutes Global report

Coun. Lee’s assistant, Cecelia Smith, refuted the Global version of events in a sworn statement released by Vision Vancouver this afternoon:

“On Thursday, October 16, 2008, sometime between 2 p.m. and 3:46 p.m. when I was in my Councillor’s Assistant cubicle, Coun. Lee motioned me to come to his office.

“I immediately walked to his office and entered it. He told me to close the door behind me, which I did. He then told me that he had found the missing in camera document. I asked him where he found it and he said on his table; he also said it wasn’t there on his table when he looked previously.”

Smith’s statement concluded with a note about why she had come forward:

“I am making this declaration because I was advised by Councillor’s Assistant Marie Kangalee that she had heard on the 6 p.m. news today that the missing in camera document was found after 5 p.m. on October 16, 2008, and I know this not to be true or accurate.”

Louie said he had provided Smith’s statement to the Vancouver Police Department, and welcomed the outcome it its investigation.

“Someone at City Hall is maliciously putting out false information to the media in an attempt to destroy my reputation,” Louie said.

Lee refutes Smith’s sworn statement

The Tyee read a portion of Smith’s statement to NPA Coun. Lee shortly after it was released.

“That’s impossible. Totally impossible,” Lee replied. “No. No.”

Lee said the sequence of events reported on Global was correct.

“I am absolutely certain that I found it shortly before the public hearing,” he said. “The sequence is correct. The exact timing, I do not recall.”

Lee, who is not seeking re-election, said that, until Thursday, “I had no idea that when we swipe our card it was all recorded.”

Louie not 'all alone' after all

Global reporter Bencze said the key card data only shows when an employee enters the councillors’ office area; it does not indicate whether or not they departed.

“We can only assume Raymond Louie didn’t leave,” he said.

And Bencze clarified Louie was not the only person in the area, just the only councilor.

“There were other people who did swipe in, such as cleaners or security staff,” Bencze told The Tyee. He said that was part of why Global excised the line, “For over an hour, he’s all alone,” when it rebroadcast the piece on its 11 p.m. newscast.

“We certainly got an earful from Vision,” Bencze said. “So we edited that one part out.”

Bencze said the Canwest station tried to reach Louie for a response on Wednesday night, but said the councilor did not return their calls.

“I think it was a fair piece,” Bencze said. “We tried to delineate the timeline, and leave it for other people to make their own judgement.”

Yet another city leak?

NPA mayoral candidate Peter Lander has confirmed that his document went missing for about two days.

No one has confirmed whether or not Ladner’s missing document was the source by which The Globe and Mail verified Gary Mason’s Nov 6 column – or even if there was a source.

Vancouver city spokesperson Leslie Bolt refused to confirm the Global timeline, and said the city “would never release security details” such as the key card data.

When asked whether the Global report constituted yet another leak of confidential information, Bolt told The Tyee, “We can’t comment on this matter because there’s an ongoing police investigation.”

Louie decried the continued lack of response from the city.

“The culture of secrecy and cloak-and-dagger politics is unnecessary and is absolutely an embarrassment to our citizens,” Louie said. “There needs to be a clean break from NPA politics.”

[deasine]

thank you for your introductory lesson on civic history and believe me i know as a member of vision what its history is...

now when you are trying to tell me that they are not related... just look at those liberals.... they are a bunch of lowlifes--- and if you dont believe me then actually get to KNOW the core in the party and you will see for yourself... trust me i know.... now what we have is a bunch of lowlifes trying to influence a decent civic party.... and thats the problem.... Larry was an awesome man until he became a senator... he should go sit in ottawa and shuffle paper like senator normally do and stop messing around with stuff in BC... as for Owen.... they bring him back in a desperate attempt to woo voters who cant remember all the bad stuff he has done... almost like a jr gordo back when he was a mayor.... though Owen wasnt as bad...

This is your logic: if anyone is anything other than left wing on the political spectrum, then he/she is evil.

The purloined papers: Louie confronts Global; aide refutes Lee's story

I was watching the global story [online] and I didn't see/hear any NAMES in that report... so how do we know it's Louie? In the report, they stated that there could be possible suspects, but not specifically who... Then again, I watched it online not during the newscast... dunnno...

[Stingray2004]

Cecelia Smith, refuted the Global version of events in a sworn statement released by Vision Vancouver this afternoon:

“On Thursday, October 16, 2008, sometime between 2 p.m. and 3:46 p.m. when I was in my Councillor’s Assistant cubicle, Coun. Lee motioned me to come to his office.

That 3:46 pm time recollection is somewhat strange.

Actually B.C. Lee was on Global News tonight and stated another individual's name to whom the document was provided.

Anyway, since Gary Mason of the Globe and Mail broke the initial story and he is aware of these accusations against Louie and I suspect also has a sense of justice, all Mason has to do is state that Louie is not the informant and the cloud is lifted. Otherwise, the cloud still remains.

Louie said. “There needs to be a clean break from NPA politics.”

Actually that statement should be clarified: Vancouver City needs a clean break from NDP politics. :yes:

[ravman]

Actually that statement should be clarified: Vancouver City needs a clean break from NDP politics. :yes:

funny... i dont see NDP signs nor do i see BC liberals signs.... well if you are going to say that then why dont you say that NPA is a junior version of the BC Liberals.... just because the parties are similar ideologically doesnt mean that they are the same....

[Stingray2004]

And to further delve into Vancouver NDP politics....

Gregor Robertson: Beware the power of the Kingsway NDP Mafia

By Charlie Smith

A while ago, Carlito Pablo wrote a story in the Georgia Straight that was based on the following question: even though Raymond Louie lost the Vision Vancouver mayoral nomination, could he still end up running the city after the election?

It was an original piece of work, and I’m guessing that it didn’t make the Kingsway NDP Mafia very happy.

You probably haven’t seen that term Kingsway NDP Mafia in print before.

Of course, I’m not suggesting that NDP members in the Kingsway area are members of the Mafia. It’s just a shorthand descriptor I use to keep track of some of the players on the left side of the spectrum in Vancouver.

I’ll let you know who I’ve admitted into the club I call the Kingsway NDP Mafia in a moment. But first, it’s important to describe the politics of most of the members.

The Kingsway NDP Mafia tends to be looser with public funds, less keen than other NDP members about environmental issues, and more strongly supportive of the labour movement and the wishes of the B.C. Federation of Labour.

If there’s one thing that binds the members of the Kingsway NDP Mafia, they side with labour leaders on issues of importance to the private-sector labour unions.
.....

Similarly, Robertson was never a member of the Kingsway NDP Mafia, which always preferred Louie. But Robertson might be necessary for Vision Vancouver to gain control of Vancouver City Hall.

Don’t be surprised if Robertson wins the election, and one day suffers the same political fate as that other nice guy Harcourt, who blamed the boys at the B.C. Federation of Labour for his downfall.

The Kingsway NDP Mafia doesn’t give up easily. Robertson should watch his back.

http://www.straight.com/article-170453/gregor-robertson-beware-power-ndp-kingsway-mafia

[deasine]

funny... i dont see NDP signs nor do i see BC liberals signs.... well if you are going to say that then why dont you say that NPA is a junior version of the BC Liberals.... just because the parties are similar ideologically doesnt mean that they are the same....

Kinda contradictory to what you said earlier about Larry Campbell.

[ravman]

Kinda contradictory to what you said earlier about Larry Campbell.

about the fact that he should be sitting in Ottawa shuffling useless papers like an typical senator?

[flight_from_kamakura]

ANYWAY, seriously, this is just getting embarrassing. the global people wouldn't go on air if they weren't sure of their source (one would hope), meaning that there was another serious leak of security information from someone on staff (working against vision). and no one, especially not a member of city staff, deposes a false sworn statement, so lee's lying. it's dirty all this. it'll be nice when the election's over, but even after, if vision manages to win (i'm pessimistic), city hall will be tense. it's hard to fire staff for disloyalty or overt politicization, though of the vision caucus (and candidates), i think louie would be the one who'd make it his goal to do so. lol, the folks on staff who are lining up with the npa to sabotage louie are outsmarting themselves, with that guy, it's as mayor sam says (per machiavelli), if you wound him, you'd better kill him.

[Stingray2004]

especially not a member of city staff, deposes a false sworn statement, so lee's lying.

One problem with the affidavit:

“On Thursday, October 16, 2008, sometime between 2 p.m. and 3:46 p.m. when I was in my Councillor’s Assistant cubicle, Coun. Lee motioned me to come to his office.

The problem is this:

Lee said, and the city's website appears to confirm, that he was attending a council meeting from 2 to 4:45 that afternoon.

[ravman]

at the end of the day... we have seen the NPA lie and lie and its is about time we get some honest people in City Hall tmr and that is by electing Gregor Robertson and Vision and Cope.

If BC LEE is not running, then why all the lying??? NPA is desparate and have resorted to lieing to help them out.

[Hong Kongese]

Ravman, if you're running for the Vision, I would vote for you for sure!

[punkster1982]

What if it was Kim Capri? She's a loyal Sam Sullivan supporter. Maybe she's trying to sabatage Peter? That'd be a much better plotline :D

[deasine]

at the end of the day... we have seen the NPA lie and lie and its is about time we get some honest people in City Hall tmr and that is by electing Gregor Robertson and Vision and Cope.

If BC LEE is not running, then why all the lieing??? NPA is desparate and have resorted to lieing to help them out.

Gregor Robertson is the opposite of honest. The transit ticket thing is an easy example.

NPAs haven't been "lieing" nor have they been lying too =)

On the other hand, I have a strong feeling this would be a close race, with Gregor winning just by a handful of votes. I personally hope that's not the case and I hope the election results will prove me wrong. We do have to acknowledge that the Vision Vancouver has been pulling off an amazing campaign, reaching out to every voter in Vancouver through full page advertisements in the 24 Hours, etc. NPA on the other hand didn't really do much in the media - when Sullivan was running, there were many ads on TV: IN DIFFERENT languages. I was hoping the NPA actually took advantage of Gregor Robertson's transit fine a little more but he provided only a small response... >__>" On the other hand, we have the Vision Vancouver criticizing the Olympic Village problem and making a huge deal out of basically nothing.

[mr.x]

I don't like both mayoral candidates, but Gregor's stunt with the transit ticket fine and the fact that he has given the media to sensationalize the whole Olympic Village "scandal" will cause me to vote for Peter tomorrow.

[Hong Kongese]

I don't like both mayoral candidates.

So who do you think should be the mayor? Ravman? :D

[deasine]

No thanks... Go Peter Ladner!

[ravman]

I don't like both mayoral candidates, but Gregor's stunt with the transit ticket fine and the fact that he has given the media to sensationalize the whole Olympic Village "scandal" will cause me to vote for Peter tomorrow.

lol wernt you a Peter Fan the day he won... lol

and Hong Kongese... that day is far far far away if it is possible, which it is not so....

as for Kim Capri... i actually liked her.... she actually wanted me to run for the NPA.... in hindsight... i should have done it :P

[mr.x]

lol wernt you a Peter Fan the day he won... lol

and Hong Kongese... that day is far far far away if it is possible, which it is not so....

as for Kim Capri... i actually liked her.... she actually wanted me to run for the NPA.... in hindsight... i should have done it :P

Actually, fyi, i was very much undecided until the last few days.

[flight_from_kamakura]

not to nitpick, but gregor filed to contest that ticket 18 months ago, and it's just now that he received a court date.

[ckkelley]

I vote NPA. Always have, always will but it's impossible to read the public mood here.

I imagine we'll have the results by 9pm.

[obscurantist]

I'll vote for Robertson as mayor, all the COPE candidates, most of the Vision candidates, and (at the risk of being dismissed as a flake here - not that I care too much about that), a couple of the Work Less Party candidates.

While the WLP seems like a parody of east-side Vancouver leftist politics, they have a few bright people running for them like Timothy Wisdom, one of the few council candidates to raise the issue of policies that concentrate bars and music venues in a small downtown area while making it more difficult to operate them elsewhere in the city. Might also vote for Geri Tramutola, and for Chris Shaw - I'll just say that my views on the Olympics are closer to Shaw's than to those of the majority of posters here, and leave it at that.

I tend not to vote just for one slate. Voted for Ladner in 2002, and there's some decent people running for the NPA like Anton, Ball, Geller and Bickerton. But I don't think I'll vote for any NPA candidates this time. The slate went along with Sullivan's stunts for far too long, and they deserve another break. I'm not wild about Vision's candidates either - they seem to embody the most cynical aspects of the provincial NDP and federal Liberals. But at the moment they seem marginally better than the NPA.

In terms of predictions, I see Vision winding up with 5 or 6 seats, while the NPA will probably just keep its 3 incumbents who are running again plus maybe Geller. Cadman will likely be re-elected. As for mayor, I really don't know. I wasn't impressed with Robertson until recently, and the spectacular fumble of the transit ticket issue left me convinced Ladner would win. But Robertson has done a good job of plugging away on the "why" of the $100 million loan and the secret meeting, and I think it's resonated with normally apolitical people, while Ladner has come across as an out-of-touch technocrat.

It's too bad - in one sense, Ladner is better suited than Robertson to be mayor given his knowledge and his work on civic / regional issues over the years. But I also have to go on the basis of his record under Sullivan's mayoralty, and the way he's conducted this campaign. Ladner is like John McCain - in his efforts first to appear loyal and then to obtain power, he's abandoned the qualities that people liked about him in the first place.

[MistyMountainHop]

Gregor Robertson is the opposite of honest. The transit ticket thing is an easy example.

Mistakenly travelling a stop too far is being dishonest? That's like saying anyone who gets a parking ticket is dishonest. He paid the fine, so we shouldn't make too much of it.

Myself, I'm more concerned with $100 million in city funds ...

[Dorian G.]

Why is the issue of who stole the document bigger than the $100 M. loan they describe? It seems like the media is just hungry for their own Watergate, except instead of going after the revelation uncovered, they're looking for deep throat—their own source. That isn't to say that the loan is a big deal, but if the loan isn't a big deal, why is the leak? Isn't the elephant in the room that Ladner left his secret document lying around, which was perhaps unwise?

[ckkelley]

Global is reporting exit polls indicating that Ladner is going down to Robertson.