BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed

[Vancity]

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2009TCA0010-000520.htm

Thanks for the information. Great news for Vancouver :)

Now I want to see pics of progress :D

[steve61]

Apologies if it's already been addressed, but this latest press release says it will be fully retractable. From all the previous renderings it never appeared to fully retract so is this a new element to the design or are they simply redefining 'fully'?

[mr.x]

^ nothing has been changed.

[mr.x]

It would have been quite impressive for the Games:



http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/sports/place+million+upgrade/2137532/2137894.bin?size=620x400

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/sports/place+million+upgrade/2137532/2137893.bin?size=620x400

[WarrenC12]

Ya but it won't make it, and the Canada Line was built with 40m platforms. Get over it.

[mrjauk]

Hey MrX:

I've searched the Sun online and have read the most recent articles on the roof announcement but can find any information related to your point about the cost including a temporary stadium at the PNE for the Whitecaps and Lions. Dp you have a link?

Thanks.

[EastVanMark]

I don't know the specifics of that rendering of the miami stadium, but it looks a lot like a steel retractable roof (ie Rogers Centre, Toronto). And if it is, then BC Place can't handle it. The stadium wasn't built to handle such a roof
Does anyone know if all of the seats in BC Place are going to be replaced with nicer, more comfortable looking chairs? that'd go a long way with renovations!

It can't handle it now in its present form but for just under $500 million you could make it handle it. You build 4 pillars outside the current stadium to support the truss work to support 2 stationary roofs at either end of the stadium and a track (again outside of the stadium) for the retractable middle portion of the roof which would slide away exposing the entire playing field to the open air.

BTW, as of now, the seats are staying.

[mr.x]

Hey MrX:

I've searched the Sun online and have read the most recent articles on the roof announcement but can find any information related to your point about the cost including a temporary stadium at the PNE for the Whitecaps and Lions. Dp you have a link?

Thanks.

I believe i read it in the Sun, if it's not in there it's possible they may have condensed the article a few hours later...they always do.

[officedweller]

Glad to see that the adjacent lands are being leased, not sold.

[mr.x]

It can't handle it now in its present form but for just under $500 million you could make it handle it. You build 4 pillars outside the current stadium to support the truss work to support 2 stationary roofs at either end of the stadium and a track (again outside of the stadium) for the retractable middle portion of the roof which would slide away exposing the entire playing field to the open air.

BTW, as of now, the seats are staying.

Consider how a fabric retractable will cost over $400-million, a steel roof will cost a lot more.

The current design is the cheapest option.

[EastVanMark]

Consider how a fabric retractable will cost over $400-million, a steel roof will cost a lot more.

The current design is the cheapest option.

Is it though? And if so, then by how much cheaper? Remember the cost is not just in the materials but for labour as well. I have yet to see anyone come out with any hard figures as to different options for the stadium. They seemed to just pick one and go with it.:shrug:

[sacrifice333]

This is great news and will be amazing... but really... $458M for a retractable stadium when there's potentially significant cuts to transit and many projects on hold if we don't come up with a similar figure of $450M?! :koko:

[mr.x]

Is it though? And if so, then by how much cheaper? Remember the cost is not just in the materials but for labour as well. I have yet to see anyone come out with any hard figures as to different options for the stadium. They seemed to just pick one and go with it.:shrug:

It is. There's no doubt about it. A steel roof obviously weighs much, much more than a fabric one, thus you need more supports (even more than what is being built for BC Place's fabric retractable design)...not only more supports but stronger ones too. That means a lot more steel and concrete work. After that they've got to assemble and weld the roof together, and that includes quite a bit of heavy and expensive retracting infrastructure.

[mr.x]

Podmore said the cost will include building a temporary facility for the B.C. Lions and the Vancouver Whitecaps at the PNE to be used during construction.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Place+million+upgrade/2137532/story.html



Mentioned several weeks ago, the temporary stadium at Empire Fields at the PNE would be built from the temporary stadium seating from the Olympics. And it also coincides with the PNE's 100th anniversary, so they are considering having major concerts for 30,000+ during the Fair.

[steve61]

^ nothing has been changed.

thanks.

[officedweller]

News 1130.
Hopefully the development on the west side will be taller than the existing view cone limits!

http://www.news1130.com/images/2009/10/BCPlace3.JPG
A look at a new roof for B.C. Place in downtown Vancouver (Courtesy PavCo)

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - The funding has finally come through to build a new roof for B.C. Place Stadium. There was speculation the retractable roof would not get built after the province announced its massive deficit in the last budget. Friday, Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger announced a fixed price contract has been signed between the B.C. Pavilion Corporation and PCL Construction.

The $458 million project will be completed by the summer of 2011, in time for that year's Grey Cup. The stadium will be home to the BC Lions and the newest major league soccer franchise the Vancouver Whitecaps. The roof will be the largest cable supported retractable fabric roof in the world, being able to open or close in 20 minutes. As well the project will not impact the opening or closing ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Games.

PavCo Chair David Podmore tells News1130 there will be more funding announcements coming in the next few weeks regarding the land that could be developed in the area surrounding the Stadium. "We recently put out a proposal call for development of the land at the western end of the stadium. We've received several proposals, but one in particular is a very exciting proposal. We'll have details within the next three weeks on that, that we'll be announcing and it will [provide] significant revenue that will offset some of the roof costs."

Meanwhile Rick Antonson with Tourism Vancouver says great cities need great gathering places. "This will make everybody want to come back and re-shoot their skyline shots of Vancouver because it is stunning. Along with being a highly functional facility in its new iteration. This is also going to be one that defines the skyline even more so than the sort of pillow effect right now."

Antonson says the project will revitalize any previous image of B.C. Place.

[mrjauk]

Podmore said the cost will include building a temporary facility for the B.C. Lions and the Vancouver Whitecaps at the PNE to be used during construction.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Place+million+upgrade/2137532/story.html



Mentioned several weeks ago, the temporary stadium at Empire Fields at the PNE would be built from the temporary stadium seating from the Olympics. And it also coincides with the PNE's 100th anniversary, so they are considering having major concerts for 30,000+ during the Fair.

Thanks!

[Metro-One]

:previous: That sounds like a great idea for the fair's 100th!

Also, I hope they are focusing on developing office, retail, cultural and entertainment facilities around the stadium! The last thing we need is residents complaining about the noise and lights around the stadiums, which they will do!

[WarrenC12]

This is great news and will be amazing... but really... $458M for a retractable stadium when there's potentially significant cuts to transit and many projects on hold if we don't come up with a similar figure of $450M?! :koko:

The transit figure is per year.

[SFUVancouver]

Awesome video of the new BC Place:

http://www.youtube.com/BCPlace2011

[If someone knows how to embed YouTube videos, please do!]

[jlousa]

Of the 1.4M sqft approved for the Pavco lands, 700k will be residential. Even then they will only be able to get ~$100M for the whole parcel.

[mr.x]

^ Raise the roof on the sq. footage approved then. :)

[GeeCee]

Awesome video of the new BC Place:

http://www.youtube.com/BCPlace2011

[If someone knows how to embed YouTube videos, please do!]

fgYG4PPYiJA

[WarrenC12]

Cool video. I think people will be a little disappointed when then see exactly how much of the roof is "open". I'm wondering why they can't have more of it open, or if that was by design somehow?

[mr.x]

^ i'm sure that if they could have more of the roof open, they would. It's a engineering issue.

[Metro-One]

Wow, i really hope that the lighting effects come out as dramatic as shown in the video! I love little touches such as adding lights along the suspension cables (would love this done on some of our new suspension bridges...). So I hope all those aspects remain for the finished product. It will add some light and character desperately needed along the False Creek skyline. Hopefully a new casino in the area (replacing the current one) will also add some more light and interesting architecture. Also I hope BC Place keeps its two LED signs.

[mr.x]

^ hopefully nearby residents won't make them shut off the special lighting features early....to spend a million on those light fixtures, only to have them turned off because some condo owners that just moved in 6 months after the stadium renovation was completed next door didn't want to close their curtains when they sleep.

You know, there's a streetlight right outside my house...it's terribly bright in my room in my room as i have a porch window, near that light, so I CLOSE MY CURTAINS WHEN I SLEEP.


I wonder what they have planned for the redevelopment site west of the stadium.

[deasine]

I just have a feeling that might happen -__-"

[Metro-One]

Trust me, we all have that feeling. Hence why I wish there was no residential component in their area plans.

[Vancity]

I watched the video, and at about 1:12-15 into the video, how come it seems like the hole is larger?? And at 35 seconds, the roof seems smaller? Is it just angles or what?

It would be nice if the roof opening could be larger than what's currently planned. But 100 meters? meh, I guess that ain't that bad.

[agrant]

Looks like light can get through the sides as well, just below the outer edge of the roof.

[steve61]

Looks like light can get through the sides as well, just below the outer edge of the roof.

that jumped out at me too. How will they deal with the exposed area on the outer edge as it pertains to weather?

[Urban_Genius]

That will be one nice stadium. It's too bad it wont be ready for 2010, but it should be ready for the Grey Cup (Where the lions will win:) ) Go lions go!

Although I hope, that the lions will be able to make BC place more intimate during regular season games.

[Overground]

In regards to the open space(I'm going to call it wrap space) between the fixed roof and stadium "rim", the renderings show advertising/promotional wrap, which might keep the elements out. I'd like to see it completely open, at least in the summer, to bring in maximum unobstructed light.

I think there also could be a slight over hang of the fixed roof structure. As well, the upper tier of seating has several feet of stadium bowl behind them and then there's the stadium rim beam itself above that. I suppose it comes down to how far into the upper tier wind can blow in precipitation from the wrap space and if angles prevent that. The very top seats will be ok but then lower parts won't?

[jlousa]

The residents would only demand the lights be shut off if they are designed improperly. They would be right in their complaints. If the lighting is done in such a way that it lights up the stadium and not away from the building then it'll be fine. The issue is when light is emitted outwards, the residents should not be forced to close their blinds, the fact that they bought downtown has no bearing on it what so ever.
Good examples of lighting that works and does not garner complaints is the lighting of the sails at Canada Place, they are lit up and visible, but they don't emit light away from the building, another good example is the half dozen newly restored buildings in Gastown that are lit up at night, they cast light onto themselves not away from them.
If the stadium does about it smartly there is no need to receive complaints from the future residents. If they don't do it smartly then sorry, they deserve to have the lights turned off.

[Canadian Mind]

The issue is when light is emitted outwards, the residents should not be forced to close their blinds, the fact that they bought downtown has no bearing on it what so ever.

Why not?

[Hed Kandi]

The proposed open roof concept for BC Place appears to be little more than a hack job, with zero visual appeal.

The branding of the proposed renovation as an 'Open Roof' is a misnomer and is no doubt very misleading as one can see that a Teflon like material envelops two thirds of the roof, leaving a mere one third actually open.

Leave it to the province to squander $500 million on another harebrained idea.

[Metro-One]

The issue is when light is emitted outwards, the residents should not be forced to close their blinds

This says it all people! Ultimate selfish creed thinking! So I guess people who choose to live in the suburbs should not be forced to drive? They deserve the same transit frequencies and amenities as downtown? And people living near the railways should be able to demand no more train whistles? And people who live near the airport should demand no more flights overhead????

That being said I agree that most lighting should be done in a way that it is directed away from residents, but some LED screens and other lighting features should not be seen as a problem. Not to mention compromises can always be met, such as having billboards turned off at midnight in some areas during weekdays and 2am on weekends.

[paradigm4]

This says it all people! Ultimate selfish creed thinking! So I guess people who choose to live in the suburbs should not be forced to drive? They deserve the same transit frequencies and amenities as downtown? And people living near the railways should be able to demand no more train whistles? And people who live near the airport should demand no more flights overhead????

That being said I agree that most lighting should be done in a way that it is directed away from residents, but some LED screens and other lighting features should not be seen as a problem. Not to mention compromises can always be met, such as having billboards turned off at midnight in some areas during weekdays and 2am on weekends.

Oh let's not start this now. The fact of the matter is that there will be residents nearby a stadium. Both need to work together to minimize potential disruptions for either camp.

[Metro-One]

That is what I am saying, have the screens turned off at midnight and 2 am is a good compromise, this is done in many areas.

[Yume-sama]

Even the Tokyo Tower is turned off promptly, right at midnight.

[Canadian Mind]

Oh let's not start this now. The fact of the matter is that there will be residents nearby a stadium. Both need to work together to minimize potential disruptions for either camp.

This is the biggest point that needs to be taken away from this. Whether the people were dumb enough to buy beside a stadium thinking there would be peace and quiet, or if they knew what they were getting into, all parties now need to make compromises in order to make this work. Noise and light pollution should have been expected when they buyers bought, but the stadium will now be producing more light, and I'm willing to bet that an open roof will now produce more noise too. So the stadium has to work to minimize new noise and light pollution while the residents have to learn to deal with what noise and light still makes it their way, because like it or not living beside a stadium there will always be noise and light pollution.

[trofirhen]

The proposed open roof concept for BC Place appears to be little more than a hack job, with zero visual appeal.

The branding of the proposed renovation as an 'Open Roof' is a misnomer and is no doubt very misleading as one can see that a Teflon like material envelops two thirds of the roof, leaving a mere one third actually open.

Leave it to the province to squander $500 million on another harebrained idea.

I couldn't agree more.

[ravman]

Here is an article straight from the devil's publishing company


Liberals' creative accounting puts new BC Place roof 'under budget'
Less imaginative folks would call it at a 70% overrun

Vancouver Sun

Saturday, October 24, 2009

When Premier Gordon Campbell announced the province would go ahead with a new retractable roof on BC Place, he tried to sound like a leader who'd learned a thing or two from the budget overrun on the convention centre.

There would be no preliminary cost estimates, Campbell told reporters at the press conference on the domed stadium renovations in May 2008.

"The final budget has not been determined," he said, brushing off suggestions that a new roof would cost on the order of $150 million. "We think it is important for taxpayers to get the full and detailed business plan in place."

The note of caution was echoed by David Podmore, the developer brought in to oversee the government-owned BC Pavilion Corporation (PavCo), operator of both the convention centre and BC Place.

"We have about five months of engineering and detailed work to do to get to the point to give you a budget that will be a fixed budget for this work," Podmore said. "We wouldn't present the budget until we have the opportunity to complete the engineering, complete some of the tendering of various components of the building and present a complete business plan."

The completed project and financing plan was delivered to the government in the fall. On Nov. 27, it was approved by treasury board, the cabinet's budget-making committee.

The full cost was pegged at $365 million, spread over three years. And while there are always risks on major construction projects, PavCo was to insist that they were accounted for in the budget and, in any event, minimal.

"While prices for construction materials and equipment have escalated rapidly over the past several years, the current economic environment and rapid decline in key commodity prices suggests that costs are beginning to soften.

"Steel price indices are trending downwards. The labour market index for the Lower Mainland is projected to flatten, particularly as 2010 construction activity winds down and credit markets tighten up for new projects. As the roof replacement will not occur until after the 2010 Games, the project is poised to take advantage of these trends.

"With or without declining input costs, the principal measures to mitigate construction risks include involvement of the design team which has experience with similar structures, substantial completion of detailed design phase prior to tendering, competitive tendering, selecting highly qualified contractors and suppliers, fixed price contracts, bonding and other forms of performance guarantees, and diligent on-going monitoring of progress and costs. PavCo is committed to these measures both in its own activities and those of the contractors it retains to oversee the project."

Take it to the bank? The finance ministry thought so. BC Place rejuvenation was costed at $356 million in the budget tabled in the provincial legislature in February of this year. The number was repeated, unchanged, in the post-election financial update in September.

But on Friday the B.C. Liberals called a press conference to announce that the contract for renovating BC Place had indeed been fixed -- except at a cost of $458 million, or 25-per-cent higher than the budget approved by treasury board less than a year ago.

No explanation for why all of those rosy predictions failed to materialize. Instead, the government representatives, cabinet minister Kevin Krueger and Podmore himself, tried to make it sound as if the cost escalation represented a major accomplishment in project management.

"We wanted to make sure we got it right, that we can deliver on time and on budget," Podmore said. "We wanted to complete the design and go to full tendering. That gives us confidence that we've got good pricing." As opposed to the number that the Liberals went with throughout the election.

The government will advance the close-to-half-a-billion-dollar cost via a 40-year-loan. PavCo is then supposed to repay the debt by developing the property it owns surrounding the dome. Podmore dropped several hints about a pending $100-million-plus announcement on the sale of development rights to the west of the site.

"There are things we are just itching to tell you about," he said. One can only hope they are grounded in a firmer reality than the one reputed cash windfall he did disclose.

For the government is now claiming that the convention centre expansion was "$42 million under budget," and "that money will go to the refurbishment of BC Place."

This astonishing feat of fiscal prestidigitation was accomplished by subtracting the finished cost of the convention centre -- $841 million -- from the final, highball budget for the project, which was $883 million.

Less imaginative folks would have compared the finished cost to the first budget of $495 million and called it a 70-per-cent overrun. Not those devil-may-care B.C. Liberals. For them it's a $42-million saving, which can now be spent on the next potential boondoggle.

source: the devil's mouth (http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=7c6ebde1-9720-42fa-8104-cebae960d92f)

[wrenegade]

The proposed open roof concept for BC Place appears to be little more than a hack job, with zero visual appeal.

The branding of the proposed renovation as an 'Open Roof' is a misnomer and is no doubt very misleading as one can see that a Teflon like material envelops two thirds of the roof, leaving a mere one third actually open.

Leave it to the province to squander $500 million on another harebrained idea.

I 3rd this opinion.

[Smooth]

I agree that it would be nice if the roof retracted more than it does... but I do think that the roof will be a big improvement over the current configuration.

I think another improvement that is being overlooked is that there should be windows around the top of the stadium (just below the roof line). That will let in a lot of natural light and hopefully give people a view of some of the buildings surrounding the stadium.

[trueviking]

so, i guess this pretty much kills the open air real grass soccer stadium thing eh?....too bad.

mls is way better on grass in an appropriately sized stadium.....40 000 empty seats does little for the atmosphere of the game and plastic grass does little for its quality......i was hoping the whitecaps would be able to duplicate the electricity at BMO....a 2/3 empty cavernous stadium on a fieldturf pitch is not what the whitecaps deserve.

too bad they couldnt build a $410m roof and an $80m 20 000 seat soccer stadium.

[agrant]

I think it has some visual appeal, but that's just me. You either go with something like this, or leave it with the upside down toilet bowl look.

[mr.x]

so, i guess this pretty much kills the open air real grass soccer stadium thing eh?....too bad.

mls is way better on grass in an appropriately sized stadium.....40 000 empty seats does little for the atmosphere of the game and plastic grass does little for its quality......i was hoping the whitecaps would be able to duplicate the electricity at BMO....a 2/3 empty cavernous stadium on a fieldturf pitch is not what the whitecaps deserve.

too bad they couldnt build a $410m roof and an $80m 20 000 seat soccer stadium.

Actually, there's a layer of the roof that can be lowered to hide the empty upper bowl seats from view. It should still look quite intimate (the scoreboard can be lowered as well):
http://www.crocketteers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wc_vision_2011.jpg

[trueviking]

Really? That is cool. Still has the crappy plastic grass though. But at least part of the issue has been addressed. Is there any word on the whitecaps situation? Is the feeling that this will now be their permanent home? Is the soccer specific stadium project felt to be dead?

I wonder how that is going to feel having the roof so low. You would think there might be an issue with clearance. It might feel pretty closed in to have the roof so low. Interesting.

[agrant]

:previous: BC Place will be the temporary home for the Whitecaps. Nobody likes playing on plastic. They'll always have that goal of finding a permanent home, one that feels very intimate...

[agrant]

Another thing about opening up the roof... that should have a positive effect on the audio quality for concerts. Shouldn't get as much echoing (reverb?).

[EastVanMark]

Cool video. I think people will be a little disappointed when then see exactly how much of the roof is "open".

I think you are on to something there. The opening is small; the vast majority of the stadium will be still be covered. This speaks nothing of the scoreboard where the roof actually tucks into or the cables that support the roof. I will also add that since the roof is flat, that famous BC Place "roar" won't be anywhere near as loud as before. In Commerzbank Stadium in Germany (the stadium that served as the inspiration for this design), the hole in the roof cannot be seen by most of the upper deck. Also, the shadows created on the field by the cables on a sunny day has been a major source of complaint by soccer players, so much so, that the roof was put into the "closed" position for a World Cup game despite there not being a cloud ion the sky during the game. For Amercian football, these "shadow" problems will be amplified.

[skyscrape]

Does anyone know who's actually doing the roof/supplying the fabric? Or is this still undecided?
Birdair, Hightex or Fabri-Tec?

TIA

[twoNeurons]

Being a 100m opening does mean one thing. The fans will not get rained on. A CFL field is 130m isn't it? Apart from the lowest 55 yrd level seats, I think the fans are safe from rain... even if the canopy never closed.

[djmk]

Here is an article straight from the devil's publishing company

The government will advance the close-to-half-a-billion-dollar cost via a 40-year-loan. PavCo is then supposed to repay the debt by developing the property it owns surrounding the dome

source: the devil's mouth (http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=7c6ebde1-9720-42fa-8104-cebae960d92f)



40 year loan?!? wtf. this sounds more like a line of credit. i wonder what the interest (if any) is calculated at?

[WarrenC12]

Being a 100m opening does mean one thing. The fans will not get rained on. A CFL field is 130m isn't it? Apart from the lowest 55 yrd level seats, I think the fans are safe from rain... even if the canopy never closed.

Yes. Speaking as a season ticket holder I'm fine with the players getting rained on and me being dry. :)

My comment about "open" was simply that the retractable aspect of the roof seems to be the main selling feature, but really it will be half-true.

That being said I'm very excited for the renos. The bottom line is that the roof needed replacement badly, and the fact that it is air-supported now is a big hassle. The energy savings and air quality benefits are great, and the building will be good for another 30 years with this upgrade.

I really hate the tear down and replace mentality, mostly prevalent in North America. It's just a bigger uglier version of the throw away and buy another piece of shiny crap attitude that will soon come to an end.

[GeeCee]

Leaving the seats covered and the field of play uncovered is pretty much the norm for retractable roofs over stadiums, I believe.. then again, you don't usually see them at stadiums where the seating goes around the entire field!

I think it looks great. :D

[twoNeurons]

The only thing that worries me is that this fabric dome seems a lot like Montreal's Olympic dome system... which they abandoned because it never worked well.

[Yume-sama]

40 year loan?!? wtf. this sounds more like a line of credit. i wonder what the interest (if any) is calculated at?

:P 40 years from now BC Place will probably not even exist. So, interesting plan.

[agrant]

The only thing that worries me is that this fabric dome seems a lot like Montreal's Olympic dome system... which they abandoned because it never worked well.That was then, this is now. The only thing it should be compared to is the Commerzbank Stadium in Germany.

[Overground]

With regards to people not seeing the open roof at Commerzbank from the upper tiers is because that stadium's fixed-roof is flat.
BC Place's fixed-roof will be domed shaped and allow better sight lines to the retractable roof.

As for the 100m opening. Isn't this what people wanted, seats covered and the pitch open to the elements? The main playing surface length for CFL and for 'world' football is approx. 100m. I'd probably like a larger roof opening but with the open space between the stadium rim and fixed-roof will give BC Place an extra airy feel to it.

[twoNeurons]

Really it will mean that the opening won't "NEED" to be closed unless it's pouring rain... I'd imagine the jumbotron will be weatherproofed.

Then again, I'm not so sure the pitch is [currently] built to handle any rain.

[mr.x]

PCL has been awarded the $458-million contract to build the new roof and renovate the stadium.

[skyscrape]

Who is actually subcontracted to do the the work on 'fibre' roof side? Birdair or Hightex? Os is this still to be confirmed?

[thurmas]

just a question are they going to replace the old blue seats in bc place and are they going to expand the private boxes arcross the whole ring of the stadium because in all the renderings it doesn't show that?

[craner]

I think this renovation is a great improvement - I'm very excited (and I live in Calgary). Too bad it couldn't be done for the games - but I'm extatic it's proceeding.

[agrant]

PCL has been awarded the $458-million contract to build the new roof and renovate the stadium.Got a link? Is that the only info?

[Overground]

Here's a link from today. Not much more info -

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/2010wintergames/Edmonton+Group+lands+Place+roof+contract/2147153/story.html

[jlousa]

PAvco is looking at expanding it's cctv system, they are pricing out an additional 50 static cameras plus 10 ptz (pantiltzoom). The new DVR system is capable of 160 feeds. To be honest it's not too impressive but probably alot better then they have now.

Here's some dissappointing news, at least to me.

PavCo is seeking to replace approximately forty-four (44) skylight panels at BC Place Stadium. BC Place is a pressurized environment; the skylight panels are accessible via high reach only. The job will be a supply and install of 2 types of replacement panels: (a) 6mm bronze reflective, heat strengthened and (b) 0.060 vinyl 6mm clear heat strengthened. The measurements of the panels range from approximately 34 inches by 90 inches to 64 inches by 90 inches with some panels being irregular shaped. Shortlisted Proponents will need to measure the dimensions of each panel requiring replacement. A site safety plan will also need to be submitted at this time. Completion of this installation is very time sensitive, the intent being to complete well in advance of the Olympic Opening Ceremonies.


Wished they would just go with a clear low-e glass instead of reflective bronze.

[Vancity]

I was just thinking about how the Whitecaps were planning on configuring the upper level seating? They wouldn't leave it uncovered, right? cause that would look sooo ugly. I was looking at how the Seattle Sounders converted Qwest Stadium. Apparently, they covered the upper deck seating with some "wallpaper" - but they did it nicely, which made the stadium look more intimate. Here's a pic:

http://bermanphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/seattlephotographer-danielberman-seattlesounders-v-lagalaxy-qwestfield18.jpg?w=640&h=425

That's a closer look. Here's a look farther out:
http://bermanphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/sounders_galaxy_db_04.jpg?w=720&h=478

I personally think that looks great. BC Place needs to do something like that for Whitecaps games until the Whitecaps get their own stadium, or else this will be what it looks like:
http://football.ballparks.com/CFL/BC/interior.jpg

I've seen the renderings of what they plan on doing..but I'm not convinced that the rendering will become reality. How are they going to do that?

Thoughts?

[officedweller]

I just wonder if the lower layer of fabric to hide the upper deck will make the stadium feel claustrophobic by bringing the ceiling down too low.

[Vancity]

I just wonder if the lower layer of fabric to hide the upper deck will make the stadium feel claustrophobic by bringing the ceiling down too low.

I'm curious as to how they're going to accomplish that?

Claustrophobic - I'm not sure, but I know it'd make the stadium a bit more intimate. I hope they do it right.

[WarrenC12]

I'm curious as to how they're going to accomplish that?

Claustrophobic - I'm not sure, but I know it'd make the stadium a bit more intimate. I hope they do it right.

It will be interesting for sure.

Even with the roof lowered/covered, BC Place will still feel bigger than GM Place. Right now there's no comparison. Just look at the footprints of the two buildings.

[hollywoodnorth]

BC Place has had half of its Upper bowl seats covered before for CFL games. In the 90's.

[dtrain]

I've read that the roof opening is 65 metres x 75 metres, = 70 yards x 80 yards. A CFL field is 65 yards wide x 110 yards long, + 40 yards for the 2 end zones = 150 yards long in total.
This means the opening will cover the width of the field, but just over HALF the length of the field, ending at the 15 yard lines. This does not sound very impressive, I hope we'll not all disappointed when this massively expensive project is completed.

Regarding the wallpapering: I think the Lions should do the same thing over both upper end zones, make it an intimate 40,000 seat stadium - even with renovations, they won't come close to filling the place.

[Overground]

Wallpaper? I don't find the advertising tarps make it more intimate, you can still see the bloody things and the roofing above them. It's better than seeing empty seats but it's hardly comparable to the real thing. You're still looking at a half-full stadium no matter how much you convince yourself. The good thing for TV coverage is if the tarps are dark, like in Seattle, than it can minimise the negative effect.

The inner retractable roof for BC Place may seem claustrophobic but perhaps if it gets a good angle up towards it's opening it may relieve that closed in feeling. I'm kind of torn on the idea of this inner roof now and if it's even a good idea. Tarps vs Tent..hmm.

[Vancity]

I've read that the roof opening is 65 metres x 75 metres, = 70 yards x 80 yards. A CFL field is 65 yards wide x 110 yards long, + 40 yards for the 2 end zones = 150 yards long in total.
This means the opening will cover the width of the field, but just over HALF the length of the field, ending at the 15 yard lines. This does not sound very impressive, I hope we'll not all disappointed when this massively expensive project is completed.

Regarding the wallpapering: I think the Lions should do the same thing over both upper end zones, make it an intimate 40,000 seat stadium - even with renovations, they won't come close to filling the place.

I think we may be disappointed with the size of the roof. Some of us have higher expectations of the renovations of BC Place, as if it's going to be a "world class" stadium. Let's not kid ourselves here. It'll be an upgrade over what BC Place was, but it's not going to be a "world class" stadium. The Dallas Cowboys stadium - now that's a world class stadium! BC Place doesn't even compare to that. I know, I know - some will say that it's apples and oranges, because of the different leagues. That's fine. I just don't think BC Place will be as "world class" as some think.

Your correct in saying that even with the renovations to BC Place, the Lions will not fill the place up. The only time it is full is when the Grey Cup comes to town - but that's about it, otherwise, it looks EMPTY. Those renovations better be good. I'm can see why the Whitecaps want to build their own stadium, why it still hasn't been done, is beyond me.

[Yume-sama]

I don't think you can feel claustrophobic in a 247,000 square foot building, even if the roof is above your head. I'd hate to see how you'd do in every other place in the World... It would really be just like being in the nosebleeds at any other stadium, except you're not that high up :P Anyways, the seat covers are a good idea. It's an interesting concept to have a pattern on them, rather than just a blue tarp. Pretty cool, actually.

And yes it is stupid to compare it to the new Dallas Cowboys stadium, which was JUST built, at a cost of $1.8 billion USD, not including hundreds of millions in land deals, etc.

Our stadium, while one of the nicest in Canada, will be like a Kia compared to their Lamborghini. But we're paying a Kia price :P

[Vancity]

Wallpaper? I don't find the advertising tarps make it more intimate, you can still see the bloody things and the roofing above them. It's better than seeing empty seats but it's hardly comparable to the real thing. You're still looking at a half-full stadium no matter how much you convince yourself. The good thing for TV coverage is if the tarps are dark, like in Seattle, than it can minimise the negative effect.

The inner retractable roof for BC Place may seem claustrophobic but perhaps if it gets a good angle up towards it's opening it may relieve that closed in feeling. I'm kind of torn on the idea of this inner roof now and if it's even a good idea. Tarps vs Tent..hmm.

There's an inner retractable roof? I didn't know that. I thought it was like a "covering" of some sort to "hide" the upper levels of seating, to make it seem more intimate. I think after the "honeymoon" period, it's going to be tough attracting the fans. Like I've said, I hope the renovations are good, both external and internal. As far as I've seen with the limited pics of renos, it doesn't look too promising.

[officedweller]

The inner retractable roof for BC Place may seem claustrophobic but perhaps if it gets a good angle up towards it's opening it may relieve that closed in feeling. I'm kind of torn on the idea of this inner roof now and if it's even a good idea. Tarps vs Tent..hmm.

Yeah, I think it will depend on the angle that the inner roof takes and whether the cables are strung straight (horizontally) across the stadium around the rim of the upper deck or strung from the rim of the upper deck to the perimeter of the opening in the roof.
Then there's also the question of what will the cabling look like when the inner roof is not in use.

[jlousa]

So details on the roof, looks like the 100m quoted is measured diagonal like tv screens.

BC place is getting a new retractable roof that will be a cable and fabric structure made from 20,000 tons of steel. It requires 36 large masts to be installed around the existing ring beam of the stadium, which will have been structurally and seismically upgraded to receive the new roof.

The masts are 50 metres high and are about 8-10 feet in diameter at the base. They weigh individually about 75 tons. The masts are connected by a secondary ring beam that weighs 60 to 100 tons each. It will be built by a large crane that will be housed on the floor of the stadium. All the lifts will occur from within the stadium, around the perimeter of the building.

The large mast will be initially be secured with temporary works to support them and connected with a series of cables. The cables range from 3-6.5 inches in diameter and some are as long as 626 metres.

The roof opens by pulling back the fabric, which then goes into a garage that is a cone in the centre of the stadium. The opening will be 65 metres by 75 metres, which is effectively a full playing field. The new roof will increase utilization in the summer months and allow up to 300 event days a year.

[Vancity]

So the opening of the roof is roughly the size of the CFL football field? I haven't been to a CFL game, but is that considered a large opening of the retractable roof?

[agrant]

So the opening of the roof is roughly the size of the CFL football field? I haven't been to a CFL game, but is that considered a large opening of the retractable roof?From what I understand, a CFL field is 110 yards (100 m) long and 65 yards (59 m) wide, plus the end zones. The opening of the roof being about 82 yards (75 m) long and 71 yards (65 m) wide. So the opening is certainly wide enough in my opinion, but lengthwise it doesn't open up enough. Close to a perfect circle. An ideal opening would expose almost the entire field level, but leave the seats covered. That being said, it is better than being fully covered with what we have now.

You be the judge.
Here is an overview of BC Place with the CFL configuration.
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/seating.shtml

[gillty]

From what I understand, a CFL field is 110 yards (100 m) long and 65 yards (59 m) wide, plus the end zones. The opening of the roof being about 82 yards (75 m) long and 71 yards (65 m) wide. So the opening is certainly wide enough in my opinion, but lengthwise it doesn't open up enough. Close to a perfect circle. An ideal opening would expose almost the entire field level, but leave the seats covered. That being said, it is better than being fully covered with what we have now.

You be the judge.
Here is an overview of BC Place with the CFL configuration.
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/seating.shtml
the width is fine (just enough to cover all seating), the length a little short but should be fine.

a few photos from the u2 (u2 is also staying in vancouver til mid november to record some music) concert which is second last event before the handover.

hopefully the new retractable roofwill band-aid the terrible acoustics (reverb?)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2536/4054890318_5794e18534_b.jpg
source:flickr Jeffery Simpson
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/4054505171_e37b7e916f_b.jpg
source: flickr MKinMotion
http://img441.yfrog.com/img441/2756/gpx.jpg
http://img689.yfrog.com/img689/1654/icn.jpg
source: naiomidevine twiter

[officedweller]

Nice.

Stadium-roof costs fixed and under control
The $458-million total comes after a process of detailed design and engineering and firm bids

By David Podmore, Vancouver Sun
October 28, 2009

The full cost of a new retractable roof for BC Place was not finalized until we confirmed the final contract with PCL Constructors Canada Inc. in recent days. Our process for arriving at a final price was laid out clearly when we announced this project on May 16, 2008, when I said: "once we've completed design and planning, we'll finalize the budget and, subject to provincial government approval, get a fixed-price contract with a guaranteed timeline."

Yes, at the time, government did reserve $365 million in its capital plan on the understanding no work on the roof replacement would occur before design and engineering was complete, the project had been competitively tendered and bids leading to a fixed price received.

After the press conference on May 16, 2008 to announce the new roof, I was pressed by reporters to provide a final cost for the roof. I refused and pointed to the experience with the Vancouver Convention Centre before my involvement, indicating I would "not play that game" and needed to complete design and engineering, proceed to competitive bid and negotiate a fixed-price contract. In fact, in response to a reporter's inquiry that day, I said, and I quote: "the worst thing that [I] can do is put out the number before [I've] done the design and before [I've] gone through the very detailed estimate and costing. We are not going to do that here because the worst thing that I can do is to throw a number out and then, four months from now when we've finished design, we make some decisions, for example, to enhance it further and I give you a different number. The number [I] give you . . . then is a firm number, and it will give you confidence it will be completed for that number."

Engineering for the roof was completed in the spring of 2009 and bids from 160 contractors on 40 packages of work were received in late May 2009. Analysis of these bids extended through the summer of 2009 and we returned to the provincial government to determine if the project should proceed. This is the appropriate, responsible approach and ensured that, prior to commencement of construction, government had the ability to proceed or not proceed based on the benefit of a competitive tender and a fixed price.

I also said that we would do as much of the preparatory work as possible prior to the 2010 Games, with the remaining work to install the new roof to be completed over eight months, after the Games are over. This is exactly the process that has taken place and was made clear on numerous occasions.

The cost to build this world-class roof is fixed at $458 million. For reasons of both safety and construction efficiency, we have extended the construction schedule and elected to close BC Place during the roof erection and installation process. Consequently, BC Place will be available for use commencing July 2011, and fully complete for that year's Grey Cup.

This investment will more than pay for itself. It will generate more than $40 million in additional economic activity every year and create 3,000 person years of employment. The new roof will allow for far more events in BC Place each year, promoting tourism and generating new revenue. For example, 28 per cent of those attending the U2 concert tonight are coming from outside B.C. A new roof means we will be able to accommodate more events like this each year, particularly during the now under-utilized summer season. It also allows us to develop adjacent properties that will return more than $100 million, which will go to pay for this project.

Finally, appropriate contingencies have been set aside, just as they were in April 2007, when I was asked to take over responsibility for the convention centre. The final cost of the convention centre expansion was $42 million below the final budget I presented in July 2007, after reorganization of the project and negotiation of a fixed-price contract. That $42 million is cash PavCo has available and will go toward the new BC Place roof, ensuring taxpayers are getting maximum value and return on these dollars for decades to come.

David Podmore is chairman of the BC Pavilion Corporation.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Quebec's Canam to help build BC Place Stadium roof

By Robert Gibbens, The Gazette
October 28, 2009

Quebec steel fabricator Canam Group Inc. is in line to win a $100 million contract to build the world's largest cable-supported retractable roof over the BC Place Stadium in Vancouver.

Canam said yesterday it has received a letter of intent from stadium contractor PCL Constructors Westcoast Inc. covering the contract award. Canam will help in design and project management as well as fabricate and install the structural steel and cables for the fabric roof.

The stadium, with a capacity of 60,000, is home to the BC Lions of the Canadian Football League. Renovation of the 26-year-old stadium, including the new fabric roof and costing a total of almost $460 million, is due to be completed in time for the 2011 Grey Cup.

Canam said the contract will be handled by its heavy steel fabrication unit Structural-Heavy Steel Construction. The new retractable roof will replace the old air-supported structure.

The steel fabrication and cable work starts early next year at Canam's plants in Quebec and the U.S. and at international sub-contractors. Local workers will handle most of the installation.

The recession and the severe slowdown in the U.S. construction market hit Canam's third quarter ended September 26. Revenue was $144.7 million, down from $218 million a year earlier, and net earnings were $4.4 million or 10 cents a share, down from $15 million or 31 cents a share a year earlier.

The company, a major producer of steel building joists besides heavy steel components for sports stadiums and large industrial projects, said it remains profitable and the order book stood at $290 million at September 26. It had $66.5 million of cash.

Its decision to focus on the infrastructure and heavy construction sectors is paying off well, Canam added.

Canam has 12 plants and 2,500 employees in Canada, the United States, Mexico, Romania and India, along with partnerships in the Mid-east and China.

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette

[mr.x]

Last night's U2 concert and next Friday's Lions games are the last events BC Place will hold before the Opening Ceremony! The facility will be handed over to VANOC right after the Lions game, giving organizers three months to prepare the venue for the ceremonies.

[WarrenC12]

Hey the Lions might still host a playoff game! :cheers: :cheers:

[SFUVancouver]

I was at the U2 concert last night and it was absolutely fantastic!

I was in section 226 behind the stage, but with a round stage, band members who remember this, and 360 degree screen it didn't feel like we were behind anything. We had an unobstructed view and were way closer to the stage than folks in similar seats on the opposite side. Plus it was pretty cool to be able to look out over all of the people on the floor and see them facing you. I must have been seated in the magic, acoustically optimal location because I didn't hear any reverb or echos at all. The show sounded great, and the screen, which expanded vertically like fish scales, was incredible.

Believe it or not, Bono did a shout-out to SkyTrain! "...we're on the SkyyyyyyTraiiiiin! Millennium Liiiiiiine. Expo Liiiiiine. Canada Liiiiine!"

It was the first time I had been to BC Place since the renos and I have to say, I was impressed. The concrete walls looks like they have been power washed, or even dry-ice cleaned, and the ceiling has been painted white and lit by new lighting ballasts which really brighten the place up. The blue directional signage is crisp, the font is good, and it feels modern. The washrooms are meh, clean and bright but nothing special. Then again, they're washrooms, not private suites. I got a glimpse of the renovated lounge and it looked good, if fairly generic. Kind of like they went shoppoing at Ikea with an 18-wheeler. The stadium roof is dirty but once the lights dimmed it didn't matter.

All told, it is an earnest, honest stadium that has had a worthwhile costmetic upgrade. There is no hiding the fact that it is not brand new but, on the other hand, it still has decades and decades of life in it and it is highly functional. I think we will be proud to have the opening ceremonies there.

[sacrifice333]

I was there too and I now understand the need for a retractable roof... so long as it improves the sound characteristics of the place... sheesh!

Though a late October concert wouldn't have been under open-air....

[mr.x]

^ but the acoustics with even a closed retractable roof would be so much better than what we have now.

[Smooth]

I was at the show too (in the inner circle!) and there was alot of echo there... I also thought Bono's voice sounder higher then past shows. I asked a friend of mine if he had noticed the high voice and he said they had the same problem back when U2 played at BC Place for the Popmart Tour.

[Overground]

Yeah, I think it will depend on the angle that the inner roof takes and whether the cables are strung straight (horizontally) across the stadium around the rim of the upper deck or strung from the rim of the upper deck to the perimeter of the opening in the roof.
Then there's also the question of what will the cabling look like when the inner roof is not in use.

Exactly, what's it going to look like when the inner-roof isn't in use? Every way I imagine what it may look like I still get a mess of cables, which cosmetically may look a bit much when combined with the cables for the upper/fixed-roof system. I think most can live with latter but not both.

I've been thinking of how the inner-roof may work by looking again at that Whitecaps rendering we've seen, although that render is sloppy and quite preliminary. The inner-roof O-ring and cable system would obviously support fabric 'panels'. Each separate panel is rolled out manually from their designated holding spots around the perimeter of the mid-deck areas on game day. Very simple technology too, nothing as complex or expensive as the upper-roof. How the rolled up panels will work with seating, video wrap boards, etc., we'll have to see. I think they may have to take out the first row of seating in the upper deck to make space. Either way it's done you will still get heaps of cables everywhere.

Perhaps the Caps will justify to MLS that not installing the inner-roof will be fine and using the tarps like the Sounders set-up of Qwest as a prime example. After all, they've been hugely successful in their present configuration of Qwest.

[officedweller]

Just thought of something - (which is different than shown in the renderng)
They could be like a series of big roller blinds (like window blinds) all rolled up in the first row around the perimeter of the upper level. Then one cable is used to pull open the "blind" towards the rim openng of the roof (via a pulley at the opening secured back to the top/back of the upper deck). When not in use, the cable could be disconnected from the "blind" and pulled up to the pulley so that it hangs up in the rafters out of sight.

[ravman]

Last night's U2 concert and next Friday's Lions games are the last events BC Place will hold before the Opening Ceremony! The facility will be handed over to VANOC right after the Lions game, giving organizers three months to prepare the venue for the ceremonies.

NOT EXACTLY

There is a lions game on Saturday as in OCT 31. If we win, then Vanoc will not take possession until early December...

If the Lions loose on Saturday, VANOC takes over mid-late November...

Stadium will be under PAVCO control for a "short while" after the last football game due to various logistical changes that need to occur.


also renovations are 95+% doneish for phase 1... still some work to be done... I think it will all be done when VANOC takes possession

[officedweller]

From the Journal of Commerce:

November 4, 2009
British Columbia ironworkers outraged after Quebec company wins B.C. Place Stadium roof contract

RICHARD GILBERT

staff writer

B.C. ironworkers are outraged that a Quebec-based company has been awarded a $100 million contract for the construction of the new roof for B.C. Place Stadium in Vancouver.

Structal-Heavy Steel Construction (Structal), which is a business unit of Canam Group Inc., won the contract for the construction of the world’s largest cable-supported retractable roof from PCL Constructors Westcoast Inc.

“This is a terrible day for the B.C. economy and a disastrous decision by the B.C. government and PAVCO (BC Place Pavilion Corporation) to export hundreds of jobs from our province,” said Rene Watteel, Business Manager for Ironworkers Local 712.

“It’s outrageous that B.C. taxpayers are stimulating the economies of Washington State and Quebec and foreign countries instead of doing the work here in B.C. and creating jobs and investment at a time of economic recession,” Watteel said.

In a press release Canam said the steel components for the project will be fabricated by plants in St. Gédéon de Beauce, QC, and Sunnyside, WA, as well as by local and international subcontractors.

However, the erection of the roof will be done for the most part by local manpower.

PAVCO negotiated a $458 million fixed-price contract with PCL Westcoast Constructors Inc., which will assume responsibility for the delivery of the roof.

Watteel said the Ironworkers Local 712 hopes that the B.C. government might reconsider the decision if it receives enough of a negative reaction from British Columbians. PAVCO is a government agency.

Construction involves the roof replacement, engineering cost and planning and the creation of a temporary facility to accommodate the BC Lions and the Vancouver White Caps.

The contract includes design-assist, detailing and project management services, as well as the fabrication and erection of the structural steel and cables for the retractable roof.

Watteel said the decision by PAVCO would cost 150 direct and hundreds more indirect jobs in B.C.

PAVCO is required to look for bids on an open basis, which means qualified contractors across the country are invited to bid.

Canam Group and Structal have been associated with many other stadium and arena construction projects for Major League teams, including the New York Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets and Red Bulls, the Pittsburgh Penguins, the New England Patriots, the Philadelphia Eagles, the Ottawa Senators and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[Yume-sama]

Maybe they should have bid $99 million :P?

You can definitely do it cheaper than someone based in Quebec...

[clooless]

How will this decision "cost" jobs that don't yet exist? :koko:

Anyway, does anyone know if the inner liner of the roof will be cleaned or replaced before the Olympics? I thought there was a rumor to that effect.

[ravman]

anyway.... most of the renovations to phase 1 have been done and they are just putting finishing touches and leaving "within days"

Also within "HOURS" a new team will be running BC place....

i guess u can say phase 1 is completed... because work that is going to be done hereforth are only temporary

mods: title change: phase 1 done Phase 2 starts April 2010

[ravman]

How will this decision "cost" jobs that don't yet exist? :koko:

Anyway, does anyone know if the inner liner of the roof will be cleaned or replaced before the Olympics? I thought there was a rumor to that effect.

well as of a few days ago... nothing has happened...

but like i said, a new team is coming in a few hours and they will be calling the shots.... when i see something, you will know...

the next time the public will be in the stadium will be on opening ceremony.... so lots of time to do whatever they want.... all i know for sure is that pepsi is out and coke is in.... but hey u all knew that so yah