Passenger Rail in Hamilton - Developments

[Jon Dalton]

I spent alot of time upstairs at the GO station during doors open and learned a couple interesting facts from the TH&B guys. I'll summarize that here:

First - As has been suggested here, the Hunter St. tunnel is no obstacle to passenger service. They could run 50 trains a day through there and it would not make a difference. They could stop freights at Aldershot or elsewhere along the line. This is coming from the guys who used to flick switches to let trains through all day long. The tunnel restrictions are purely political.

Second - the city is considering a rail connection near Grays Road between the CN and CP lines. The track hasn't climbed very high up the escarpment at the point where the connection would join up, and there wouldn't be any issues with the grade. I don't have this on good authority, but was told someone from the city mentioned it to them on saturday. Just a rumour perhaps, but at least there's more going on that just guys drawing lines on maps.

I also thought we should have a thread for all things train related here - GO, VIA or otherwise, similar to the public transit thread. We could use this one to post any news items and discuss, debate or complain accordingly. Good idea?

[flar]

Interesting. I don't know where they could fit a rail connection near Grays Road without a lot of expropriation. They should have built a rail connection as part of the RHVP.

[hamiltonguy]

I spent alot of time upstairs at the GO station during doors open and learned a couple interesting facts from the TH&B guys. I'll summarize that here:

First - As has been suggested here, the Hunter St. tunnel is no obstacle to passenger service. They could run 50 trains a day through there and it would not make a difference. They could stop freights at Aldershot or elsewhere along the line. This is coming from the guys who used to flick switches to let trains through all day long. The tunnel restrictions are purely political.

Second - the city is considering a rail connection near Grays Road between the CN and CP lines. The track hasn't climbed very high up the escarpment at the point where the connection would join up, and there wouldn't be any issues with the grade. I don't have this on good authority, but was told someone from the city mentioned it to them on saturday. Just a rumour perhaps, but at least there's more going on that just guys drawing lines on maps.

I also thought we should have a thread for all things train related here - GO, VIA or otherwise, similar to the public transit thread. We could use this one to post any news items and discuss, debate or complain accordingly. Good idea?\

I don't know who your sources are, but the "stopping freight through Hunter Tunnel" idea is pure bs.

The Welland Sub is CP's ONLY freight line to the Niagara frontier.

The Grays Road connection rumour is probably just that: A rumor. However, it would be interesting if there was a more solid proposal.

[Jon Dalton]

My sources are the dudes who remember 20+ passenger trains going through there, plus the frieghts, and worked the control board for it. I'd always assumed that frieghts had priority because they they take so much more time and energy to stop and start, plus they're longer. Apparenly they aren't concerned with that, and in fact they stop frieghts all over the place for the dumbest reasons. It's just a policy issue which could be changed, especially since they get paid for every single GO train that passes over that line. They used to run more passenger AND frieght trains than they do today, with worse technology, and they made it work. The impression they gave me was that this issue is 100% policy.

[coalminecanary]

\

I don't know who your sources are, but the "stopping freight through Hunter Tunnel" idea is pure bs.



I don't know why you are using quotes in this statement, because I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone said stopping freight through hunter tunnel.

What WAS mentioned was that through scheduling, more trains could pass through. Presumably stopping freight at aldershot means occasionally holding a freight train up to allow a passenger train through and vice versa.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Hunter Tunel is more of a mental barrier than a physical one. THere just isn't enough WILL in the right places. With the right will and a bit of money, that problem could be 100% eliminated.

But the priorities around here are clear: cheques get signed by the billion for highways, but the attitude toward rail is that if the rails aren't already laid then it's impossible.

[Jon Dalton]

Thankfully the times are changing, see that Niagara transit thread. Would you have imagined any of this 2 years ago?

[hamiltonguy]

They could stop freights at Aldershot or elsewhere along the line.

That was what i was referencing coalmine.

But honestly its not that its physically impossible, just that the management of the line is incompetent and they want nothing to do with GO as it interferes with their freedom to run trains anytime they want.

If the line made money and the railroad ran it themselves they wouldn't complain and would be willing to do some squeezing, but as it stands they want to be able to run trains through the tunnel with short notice. (Which contrasts when you go back further to when most freights were scheduled)

We've got to accept it's CP's tunnel and if they don't want to allow GO Trains because it interferes with their usage, then its their right.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Freight doesn't stop for passenger rail unless it's to avoid a collision. CN, CP and the other North American railways are booming businesses today because they have restructured and reorganized themselves into agile and responsive entities that are capable of delivering goods "just in time" and thus being competitive with highway transit. In no uncertain terms, CP is not going to stop it's own freight on tracks it owns, so that a commuter train can have right-of-way. So while it may be physically possible to allow greater passenger usage of Hunter Street, it is not going to be logistically or financially feasible for Canadian Pacific.

I have taken many a delay on VIA between Windsor and Aldershot due to CN freight traffic. The only way to avoid it altogether is dedicated trackage. The electrification of GO Lakeshore would certainly make this a moot issue.

[SteelTown]

From UT.......

Just as a curiosity:

http://steve.hostovsky.com/gohamiltonsmall.jpg

[DC83]

^^ What's up w/ the bays ont he south-edge of the back lot?

They're working on the maintance section as we speak. Saw them clearing the land the other day.

[matt602]

Yes they are. I noticed that last weekend. They seem to be starting on the portion closest to the station.

[SteelTown]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3985083#post3985083

Wouldn't that plan be an amazing boost for Hamilton? A major hub for the Niagara region, GTA, K/W and London.

[omro]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3985083#post3985083

Wouldn't that plan be an amazing boost for Hamilton? A major hub for the Niagara region, GTA, K/W and London.

Cool. This is in addition to the Metrolinx "Big Move" and Move Ontario Plans?

[Jon Dalton]

Wow. For $4 to $10 billion we could solve our transportation problems, put people to work and create a new industry in high speed rail technology. Seems to me that's a better investment strategy than propping up an overgrown auto industry in a saturated market.

[realcity]

Metrolinx won't happen. I'm not getting my hopes up. It'll be around just long enough to get North York and Toronto what they want. Then the Government won't have any money left. Citing the Recession -- like anyone who needs a handy excuse.

[FairHamilton]

Metrolinx won't happen. I'm not getting my hopes up. It'll be around just long enough to get North York and Toronto what they want. Then the Government won't have any money left. Citing the Recession -- like anyone who needs a handy excuse.

Perhaps the recession (infrastructure spending) is the thing that will make Metrolinx a long term viable agency.

[Jon Dalton]

Both of Hamilton's surviving train stations (and both were regarded among the best in their class) were built in the depression.

[BrianE]

I think Rob MacIsaac has positioned himself to be the Robert Moses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses) of the GTA. Only not in a highway building, neighborhood destroying, covertly racist sort of way.

Robert Moses was said to be the most powerful person in New York State between 1930 - 1950 due to the funds offered by government to build road infrastructure.

The same could happen for Rob MacIsaac when billions of dollars for public transit infrastucture starts to flow.